#is it good or bad that Martin's arc is so centered around Jon?

[i-will-change-this-someday]

Like they said, I think he is very anxious. A lot of his actions aren’t really him trying to be dominant or something, and he is often “ready to conform to the authority and/or will of other” (google definition of “submissive”) he’s just incredibly bad at it.

He'll be like "Yes, of course your right. I will wait for you before jumping into the coffin," but of course, he goes into the coffin anyways, it's not as if he's trying to undermine the others and show his dominance, he's just gets the overwhelming need to do something that it overpowers his quote unquote submission.

I wouldn’t really say he’s arrogant though, even in season 1, he’s stuffy and uptight, but he doesn’t really give me the vibe that he thinks he’s better or more important than anyone else. The most arrogant I can think of him being is with Melanie in her first statement, but even that was more pride for the institute as a whole rather than himself specifically.

Also, I don't think Martin is the reason Jon didn't go mad in season 5. I think he would have more easily lost hope without Martin and would have just settled with the horrible new world, but he wouldn't go "mad," he wouldn't have become a sadistic fear eating monster without Martin, and I feel like saying he would discredits his character.

Also which of martin's opinions should he have taken to heart? His "let's kill all of these avatars, because they're the worst things ever and should all die!" opinion, (not acknowledging Jon is an avatar) or his "let's send all of the literal eldritch horrors to another dimension, because I decided the Web isn't actually that bad, right?" opinion? Jon didn't take Martin's opinions into account because Martin didn't understand the full scope of things like Jon did.

I'm honestly a bit confused by the last part, While I do think Jon's relationship with control is a very interesting thing to explore, I don't really think Jon is ever trying to control others, or even a situation, just that he is in control of himself, so I don't know how relying on Martin would help.

Sorry for the long ask, but I need to get this out of my chest. Do really people think Jon is a submissive poor baby??

He's the most dominant character in the whole show. He acts in the way he thinks it's right, without (mostly) asking for advice or permission. He fucks up a lot because of this (and because he doesn't take other's people feelings into consideration). Other characters with dominant personalities (like Melanie!) accuse him of being an asshole even when it's not deserved because they perceive him as an authority figure. He takes decisions=he takes responsibility.

It doesn't mean he doesn't get tricked by Jonah, or influenced in other ways, still he perceives them as his choices. He feels guilty about things he has no control on because he feels he needs to have control of any situation. Jon's biggest flaw is that he's arrogant.

Also,

the power imbalance between Jon and Martin isn't because Martin is a little bit of an asshole (??) it's because Jon is literally a supernatural creature and the only reason he didn't go mad in Season 5 it's because he loves Martin. Still, he clearly doesn't take Martin's opinion into account most of the time, he mostly sees him as someone to protect. Again, putting himself in an authority role, they are not equal in the relationship.

Martin's character arc finishes with his relationship with Jon, his character is completely fulfilled by it, while Jon is doing his shit and he needs Martin just because he chooses to. It would be so interesting to see their relationship grow. Jon learns that he doesn't need to be always in control and he can rely on Martin. Martin learns how to love himself -through Jon's loving him- and how to build meaningful relationships with other people, knowing that he's loved even when he isn't a perfect sweet baby. 🗣️

Ooo I like what youre saying. Yea. I do think Jons somewhat submissive when he gets backlash for his actions sort of in a 'Better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission' kind of way if that makes sense. With scenes where hes confronted hell stand up for himself a bit before agreeing and going along with wtv ppl say. Idk if that makes sense and Im misremembering some things but yea - rosette

sorry nonny & rosette i misread that question for a second . but i agree w/rosette ! jon's generally very anxious when it comes to backlash and he'll do what he can to avoid it / avoid confrontation . etc etc . yeag - deceit

[lycanlovingvampyre]

MAG 178 Relisten

Activity on my first listen: cutting the French tamarisk in my garden.

BASIRA: "How do you tell which is which?" JON: "I mean, you could ask me, I suppose. B-But I don’t really see the point. Would it help you to know whose suffering is real and whose is just a grim reflection?" Oh god, yes! Did anyone watch S2 of The Hollow? Basically that. (Spoiler The Hollow S2: Because of a glitch of the cheat there were copies of the players created which of course only can exist in The Hollow, they're virtual. But does that mean they want to live any less than their flesh and blood selves do? Love how the Hollow explores that, even when it takes a bit too long to get to that point in S2)

MARTIN: "God, I hate all of these… loose ends." JON: "I’m sorry." MARTIN: "It’s fine. We’ll just have to tie them all up in one go." JON: "Hm?" MARTIN: "Around Elias’ neck." Classic Martin Kill Blackwood.

Soundscaping appreciation: When they talk in the... presumably hallways of this place, you can hear their voices echoing. As soon as Jon hops into that cupboard and closes the door, the echo is gone (because it's a small space and sound doesn't bounce around that much).

"The thing sat behind the desk" That is always accompanied by a grunting sound. Is it supposed to be a pig? Like in a world of opposites, not humans slaughtering pigs, pigs slaughtering humans.

"When the brand hits him in the small of his back, he has no idea what is happening." I am so happy my horse doesn't have that nonsense of a brand and has a chip instead. Brands can do so much damage and it's just cruel. Burns are extremely painful...

"Is it not better, at least, to be useful?" I don't quite get that statement. The nearest thing in rl I could think of is a job center. Useless waiting with others who are just as helpless as you are. Mountains of unnecessary bureaucracy. Wasting your skills on bullshit jobs they force you to take because they cancel your money otherwise...

[WALKING OFF, MARTIN JOSTLES A BODY] MARTIN: "Excuse me." JON: [Exasperated] "Martin, they can’t hear you –" MARTIN: [Sharp] "I know, Jon. That’s not the point." I guess Martin likes to do that, to treat them like normal humans, so he can uphold a sense of normality for himself. So he doesn’t lose his sense of humanity.

MARTIN: [Loudly] "Enough. Enough! Someone has died! Show some respect. Or don’t you care?" BASIRA: [Incensed] "Of course I fucking care! … [Quieter] That’s the problem." Ah, Martin doing what I just pointed out in the last bullet point and finally Basira is getting somewhere!^^

BASIRA: "I thought we were doing good. I really did. I knew there was some bad shit. I knew Daisy was into a lot of it, but… I thought it balanced out. [Weakly] I thought we were good." JON: [Softly] "I know how that feels." T_______T

BASIRA: "I wanted to help people, you know? When I first joined. Protect people. But then I saw what some of those same people were capable of, and…" I wonder how many people who want to be cops/become cops are really, like, middle to left and just want to help others. And then I wonder how they deal with all the right-winged bullshit and if they get persuaded by the others and actually start to believe the same crap, or if they simply give up at some point, keep their mouths shut or quit.

Aw man, this whole affair with Daisy is just so... difficult. I love this moral debacle. I think it was super important for the whole S5 arc with Basira here to show us a side of Daisy that would actually make her likable. Otherwise we as audience would hardly be conflicted about any of this and probably would judge Basira very quickly.

@a-mag-a-day

[gondorosi]

The gradual separation of show!Jon from book!Jon - Part II

Magic

The showrunners deciding that magic is an unimportant part of the saga and to be relegated to the background is utter horseshit. There’s a bloody REASON direwolves and dragons reappeared in the world when they did, more or less at the same time. There’s a fucking reason why in Martin’s version Dany’s fireproof nature was a one-time thing, the dormant magic in her reawakening as needed BECAUSE dragons needed to be brought back into the world. Dany, Jon and Bran are the three most magic-sensitive characters in the whole story - and only one of them have anything to do with it in a significant manner (though significant might be stretching it). With Dany, her magical nature is only sporadically referred to (the dragons are the be all and end all) and Jon has nothing.

Show!Jon is a mortal man on every level, without a drop of magic in him. Book!Jon is no Bran, but there are three fundamental factors which show how deeply he is connected to the land.

Ghost: Removing Ghost's importance to Jon is akin to removing part of his soul. He isn't just 'big, white fluffy doggo'. Ghost is part of him, his familiar. Ghost is the physical personification of the magic running in Jon's blood, the proof of the Old Gods awareness running through Stark children's veins. Direwolves have a deeper, subtler and less apparent magic than dragons, but no less potent, and no less essential to Jon than her dragons are to Dany. Out of all the Stark siblings, Jon’s connection with Ghost and Bran’s connection with Summer seem to be the most symbiotic. All the siblings have strong bonds with their direwolves, molded to their own personality - Arya’s connection with Nymeria persists even across the sea in Essos, all legends of Robb in battle are accompanied by legends of Grey Wind and poor Rickon becomes so enmeshed in Shaggydog’s mind that there’s little to distinguish between boy and beast. However, perhaps due to the nature of their POVs and story arcs, none of the Starks save Bran and Jon have their journeys so closely aligned to their wolves. Which is why it’s nigh impossible to even consider Jon’s story moving forward without Ghost, especially post resurrection. The show omitted the obvious implication that Jon warged into Ghost before he died, had no role for him in the BoB, completely erased him in S7 and relegated him to a damn stray in S8. On the other hand, the show AMPED up the Dragon Queen part of Dany to the detriment of all other aspects of her character.

Warging: In a universe where Martin has tried his best to weave in strong magic with actual medieval politics, concentrating all Northern magic into one single character (whose surface they barely scratched) is utterly lazy storytelling. Jon's warging abilities are mighty and second perhaps only to Bran, though I hold the belief Arya is as powerful a warg. But unlike both of them, Jon seems to actively resist exploring his warging possibilities. Some of the resistance may be explained by his environment - with both the NW and the Freefolk considering warging to be something of a ‘black’ art or dark magic. Sure, the Free Folk are more open about it, with Varamyr envying Jon’s gift with Ghost in his thoughts:

“He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king. He could have done it, he did not doubt. The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it.”

The show makes NO mention of it. Jon being considered a warg is a major reason behind half the NW hating and fearing him. I don’t remember the show ever bringing up the fact that Jon was feared - they seemed to make Thorne and Slynt’s animosity out of sheer spite and disgust at his bastardy. 

The Lord Commander's Raven: This is a favourite obsession of mine. Old Mormont’s raven pops out at Jon at seemingly random moments, but for the reader bursting with conspiracy theories, the raven is just another nod to the fact that Jon has a far greater role to play in the story than is visible to the eye. There's a popular theory that Bloodraven wargs him from time to time, since Jon is the secondary piece on his chessboard. The raven has come to Jon’s aid atleast twice that I can remember:

When Mormont is attacked by the wight:

Jon tried to shout, but his voice was gone. Staggering to his feet, he kicked the arm away and snatched the lamp from the Old Bear's fingers. The flame flickered and almost died. "Burn!" the raven cawed. "Burn, burn, burn!"

Spinning, Jon saw the drapes he'd ripped from the window. He flung the lamp into the puddled cloth with both hands.

During the election for Lord Commander when Mormont’s raven flying to his shoulder is used as a sign by Sam to argue for Mormont’s approval of Jon as the choice.

Bastardy

Jon's entire sense of self is centered around two things:

Ned Stark is his father

He's a bastard

His entire character arc is trying live up to one of those and distance himself from the connotations of the other. His bastardy is the formative lodestone of his character and moral compass but in the EXACT opposite of how Catelyn and Westerosi society as a whole expect it to be.

However, there's a twist to that. Jon's inner desire is EXACTLY what Catelyn feared. He DOES want to be Lord of Winterfell. He DOES harbour resentment that Robb (seemingly) has everything handed to him while the best Jon can hope for is to die at his post, unknown and unsung. He DOES want glory and power and to exact some kind of revenge on a society which deemed him vile and detestable for no fault of his. All the elements for him to become the Starks' own Daemon Blackfyre is already present.

But there's one difference - Ned Stark is no Aegon the Unworthy. Even more than all of the above heart's desires, Jon wants to be like his father. He wants to do what is right. He wants his father to be proud of him. He wants to be nothing like the greedy, vengeful and lusty creature he's always been told he is. He wants to help people and stand up for the weak because that's who he is. At the very heart of it, he just wants to be loved by Ned as much as his trueborn sons. And thus he takes Tyrion's words to heart and wears his bastardy like impenetrable armour.

In show!Jon, ALL of this inner struggle is lost. Jon's bastardy is rarely affixed other than as a side. Show!Jon is a 'good' man. Yes, undoubtedly. But what makes book!Jon a great man is that he masters his baser desires to focus on what's more important. THAT'S what Jeor, Mance and Stannis all saw in him. That's why the Free Folk follow him. That's why half the NW will die for him (yes I know the other half will kill him).

When you have spent most of the show without anywhere referencing how vital the armour of bastardy, and being Ned Stark’s son is to Jon's psyche and sense of self, even the best directors will not be able to depict WHY the news of his parentage will have ripped out the ground from under him. Dany's quest for the throne is out there glaring at us thus atleast on paper making sense that having her undeniable right threatened will rattle her (I personally hate hate HATE the creative decision that Dany's immediate reaction to find out Jon's a Targaryen will be paranoia and concern for HER throne but I digress).

Intelligence, ability and cunning

Up until S4 and most of S5, show!Jon and book!Jon exhibited similar levels of intelligence and cunning. One of my favourite scenes is Sam trying to stop Jon from marching into Mance's camp to try and assassinate him. Jon gets in his face with his frustration and despair boiling and asks if he has any better ideas. At this point he's done a superb job commanding the defence of Castle Black but has also just lost Ygritte, Pyp and Grenn all in one night, a significant portion of the meagre Castle Black forces and is fully aware that they cannot survive another charge. He's beyond desperate and aware that his efforts are likely suicidal but he can't just retreat, lick his wounds and do nothing. 

The show labours under the popular delusion that truly good guys can't be really smart, as being smart means preserving yourself and truly good guys will always jump into danger first to protect other people. Politics is bad so if you're a good strategist then you can't be a good person. 

Both book and show characterizations of Jon have been criticized for being examples of the ‘Chosen One’ the ‘reluctant hero’ who turns out to be the right man for the job, and for painting ambition and the quest for power as negative pursuits. In the book however, Jon’s ambitions never really had a chance to form. He’s prideful enough in his abilities to believe he would be an immediate select into the elite Ranger ranks and is devastated when that doesn’t work out. By the time he’s come to terms with the fact that being Mormont’s steward means being groomed for command, the truth of the White Walkers is in front of him and that becomes his sole consideration.

To many readers, Jon’s election to Lord Commander was ‘contrived’ though I do believe Sam played the long political game as he believed his friend being in a position of power would lead to an easier path for him. However, Jon doesn’t crumple under the weight of the responsibility - his actions as Lord Commander are revolutionary enough to completely destabilize his support. The show entirely omits all the strategic parts of his negotiations with both Stannis and the Freefolk. Unlike show!Jon, book!Jon does not allow the Freefolk through the Wall only on the account of goodwill and the fear of a common enemy. He takes their children hostage to ensure compliance. He negotiates with the Iron Bank for a loan to stave off starvation come winter. He repopulates the Gift with Free Folk. He shelters, counsels and aids Stannis. He addresses almost every logistical and material issue he can think except for the most fundamental - his people. 

On the other hand, there’s no strategic and political angle to Show!Jon in S6 and S7, instead being posited only as warrior extraordinaire.

'The greatest swordsman in the North' - but too naive to not keep the sister who tricked him almost to his death at arm's length. Brave, loyal and courageous beyond belief - but completely befuddled by politicking. Immediately trusting a sister he’s never been close to and who has been Littlefinger’s pupil for a considerable time. 

Book!Jon's abilities as a leader are sorely underappreciated, especially considering that his tenure as Lord Commander saw the status quo of almost every aspect of NW life upended. The previous LC is killed in a mutiny. The Wildling army launch an attack. The Others finally rise. A King/King Claimant FINALLY takes the NW's warnings seriously. The Wildlings are brought south of the Wall.

Despite being a new beginning for all recruits, the Night's Watch is the one order in Westeros whose traditions and rules have not changed in millennia. Understaffed, under-resourced and facing a threat the likes of which people would struggle to comprehend, Jon does the best he can. His major mistake is one most young leaders make, and that is assume all of those under automatically understand his reasons for doing what he does. 

Relationships

Brother:

If there's one role Jon takes more seriously than 'Ned Stark's son, it's that of brother. Book!Jon is pretty much the pinnacle of brotherly love - Robb's right hand, Arya's champion and dutiful protector to both Bran and Rickon. There's a subtle tragedy in this too - despite how much his siblings love him, all of them, including Arya, have othered him. He's brother, but only half. Snow, not a Stark. The last in the list. 'The last brother left to me' - as felt by both Robb and Sansa.

Book!Jon and Show!Jon are both shown to be loving, dutiful brothers but once again the show is incapable of portraying more than one character at a time in a certain way. Thus all of Jon's brotherly love is concentrated on Sansa, the sibling he was least close to. Show!Jon never mentions Robb after his death mentions Arya not at all when book!Jon never stops thinking about the two of them.

Maybe, maybe if the show had bothered to flesh out Jon Snow's emotional attachment to his home and siblings, his dilemma between his family and Dany wouldn't have been so shoddy.

Friend:

Book!Jon, despite his aloof demeanour attracts fast friends. His staunchest supporters in the NW are those who he befriended when he first stepped within the gates. He's the only one to ever have stood up for many of them. And it's his NW friends who do become truly brothers, as they see and stand beside him during his rise to leadership.

Show!Jon is no different - he's got his loyal friends but there was no apparent discord after him being elected LC. Which is surprising considering that this is the moment that Jon effectively decides to ‘Kill the boy.’ The Gilly baby switch storyline is completely done away with, probably because it is the one decision that very clearly paints Jon as grey. The book Sam struggles to understand this decision - in his mind his best friend would never have done that. Maester Aemon is the one who sets him straight - Jon is no longer just a brother of the Watch, he’s the Lord Commander now. He can no longer be taking decisions just as Sam’s friend.

The show never really dwelt on the chasm Jon’s position as a leader would have created with his brothers who till them were his equals. Book!Jon knowingly starts distancing himself and this is a flaw that comes back to stab him in the chest - again a misstep in one raised to leadership at a young age.

Lover:

This part will be a bit of a cop-out since at this point the only common love interest between the books and the show is Ygritte. The show axed Val, who’s one of my favourite secondary characters and my main preference for a Jon pairing pre-Dany. And of course, there’s far too much plot to cover before Jon and Dany even meet in the book (if they’re ever finished).

There are factions of the fandom who don’t think the Jon and Dany romance in S7 was set up convincingly. Admittedly that’s going to be hard for me to judge fairly as I’ve been in the Jonerys camp ever since ADWD made it clear how Jon was growing as a leader and as a magical touchstone in direct parallels to Dany. It definitely helped that Kit’s portrayal of Jon had FINALLY started to appeal to me once The Watchers of the Wall aired. I’d been one of the many fans who had been waiting for these two to meet on the show - and though I personally found the Jon-Dany relationship progression to be one of the few good things about S7, I can perhaps get why many neutral fans (i.e not commited to any rival ships for either Jon or Dany) think its out of character for them to be so involved so soon.

There are plenty of popular assumptions perpetuated by the show which have no backup in the original material - one of them is ‘dumb, lovable idiot’ Jon paired with the ‘awkward and oblivious as fuck with women’ Jon. Now, I’ll not deny that the latter portrayal works QUITE well with show!Jon (Kit’s face is the perfect cast for this characterization) but I just don’t see it working with book!Jon. The boy isn’t seeking out women but its not like he’s not around them. Alys Karstark was quite obviously taken with him, and I doubt Jon missed it, but there were far greater things of import to consider for both of them - I saw no awkwardness in the text. Jon dislikes Selyse and manages to be both cordial and deferential as required. Melisandre makes no secret of her fascination with him - there’s no bumbling awkwardness there either. And Val - he’s quite smitten and there’s some awkwardness there, sure but its hardly the bumbling variety.

As for Dany - considering that at this point the 7 seasons of the show is all we will ever have, I somehow think the softer show!Jon makes a much better pairing with the more hardened show!Dany. Its as if certain aspects of their personalities were flipped in the show - book!Dany is definitely much softer and gentle without her power and strength being diminished, whereas book!Jon is far more calculated and ruthless without compromising on his honour and integrity. 

[theusurpersdog]

So Game of Thrones ended on Sunday, and for now it’s going down as potentially the worst ending of any TV show ever. Some of the backlash has come from the more nonsensical elements, such as Bronn being on the Small Council, anyone in Westeros defending Daenerys (the show literally framed her like Hitler, come the fuck on), Tyrion deciding who was King while in shackles, etc. But the truth is, none of that would’ve mattered if the emotions rang true. And that’s been a problem since the show started; go all the way back to Winter is Coming and you’ll see that the Starks have always been sidelined - both as individuals and as a family - in favor of the Lannisters. George Martin is writing a character piece about the Starks and how they survive, and the show was never going to stick the landing when they fundamentally didn’t understand that.

I’m not the first to point this out, but man did it really bother me this episode. D&D really could’ve phoned in 95% of this story and just shown up to love the Starks and everyone would’ve been at least satisfied, and they just couldn’t do it. So many years of bad writing and idiot plots and plain stupidity hasn’t lost Game of Thrones hardly any fans, because the ones they had were deeply invested in the characters GRRM had created and were willing to overlook just about everything to see those characters have some sort of conclusion. That’s why their entire audience has turned against them now - they didn’t care about the Starks for 8 seasons, and GRRM’s ending required the audience and the writers care deeply for Jon, Sansa, Arya, and Bran.

For all of GRRM’s talk about wanting to break his reader’s hearts, and D&D’s version of his story as this GrimDark nightmare, GRRM’s story has a real, emotional heart to it. People debate whether it was a fantasy story with the false premise of a political period piece, or a political story with a touch of fantasy intrigue - but the truth is, this story is and always has been a character piece centered around the Starks and how they survive and rebuild after family tragedy. In number of povs and chapters, they literally overwhelm the series. Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Catelyn all are in the top povs as well as Ned, who is still competitive despite being in exactly 1 book of the series. Having the Starks as the center of the story, the point in which almost all the action revolves, is what grounds all of Martin’s series even as his povs reach 30+. Martin was being very serious when he said Arya, Sansa, and Bran were the heart of his series. You need them because they make it worth it.

So let’s break down how D&D ripped the heart out of asoiaf’s chest. The biggest problem the show had was something book readers have known for a long time, but didn’t fully realize until Sunday night: The Bran Problem. GRRM has stated multiple times that Bran is his hero, yet the show has never had any interest in his story. They made an entirely random decision not to include flashbacks or dream sequences, which immediately cuts out about half of Bran’s content. But not only did they take away his magical importance, they also stole his political importance. Bran was Robb Stark’s heir, Lord of Winterfell and first in line to be the King in the North. Yet they took Bran’s story away from him and gave the focus to Theon Greyjoy, a character more appealing to the tastes of David Benioff and Dan Weiss. So we never got to see the King of the Six (should be eight but whatever I’m just dying inside) Kingdoms acting in any leadership capacity. And, last but certainly not least, D&D took all emotion from Bran. And no, I don’t mean when he came back from beyond the wall a husk of a person. That was awful, but the damage was done seasons before. If you’ve read the books, you’ll know and love Bran Stark because this is who he is:

He sent sweets to Hodor and Old Nan as well, for no reason but he loved them

Bran was a sweet boy. Everyone loved him

The roots of the trees grow deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought,  I'm not dead either

Old stories are like old friends, she used to say. You have to visit them from time to time

He is a sweet boy, quick to laugh, easy to love

Bran has always represented happiness and people coming together in GRRM’s story. Ned wants to bring him to King’s Landing because he’s universally loved and will ease the conflict between Joffrey and Robb, and just the thought of him being alive makes Jon bury his ego and reach out to his Night’s Watch Brothers. He is Meera’s little Prince, someone that Howland Reed’s children are willing to go beyond the wall and die for. He accepts food on the road beyond the Wall, and promises he’ll repay his debt many times over. He’s the boy who looks back into the past and just wants to see his dad again; who reaches out to save Theon, even when Theon took everything from him. He is Eddard Stark’s son, soft and kind and loving, brave when he is afraid, loyal and honorable, and he is a good person. He’s young, but he is fit to be a King one day. 

But no, D&D didn’t stop at Bran. Let’s talk about Arya Stark, and the little girl who never was. Was there ever a character more suited to D&D’s tastes than a little murder girl hellbent on revenging her family’s killers? But was there ever a character further from Arya Stark? She is nine years old when Ser Ilyn takes her father’s head, of course she is brash and reckless and childish, wanting to avenge him. But she is all of those things because she is still a kid. Below the surface, she is very scared and very hurt. Unlike the show’s version of Arya, who is upset Joffrey died because she couldn’t do it herself, the Arya of the books has a realization that Joffrey dying means nothing because she’ll never get Robb back. Arya isn’t turning into an assassin because it would be cool, she’s running away as far as she can.

You can watch the season finale of Game of Thrones s4, and be right in concluding that Arya Stark leaves The Hound for dead in a ruthless move of brutality as she goes to pursue her dreams of being an assassin. Now read the end of A Storm of Swords, and you’ll find an Arya who refuses to let Sandor take a piece of her no matter how he abuses her, and goes to Braavos because she is so afraid that no one could love her anymore - and most of all she leaves because with Winterfell sacked and held by the Boltons, she genuinely thinks she has lost her home. Arya doesn’t make a well-adjusted decision to leave Westeros, she’s trying to keep her head above water before she drowns in grief. Disassociating from her pack is the only way she can cope with the unbearable amount of loss she has suffered, especially at such a young age. But GRRM’s version of Arya is fierce, brave, loyal, loving, and above all she loves her family.

Then there is Sansa, the most empathetic character in GRRM’s whole world. The unfailing hope and kindness in which she views the world are her defining character traits; she echoes GRRM’s own worldview, one where you can see the good and the bad in everyone, and choose to forgive - and if not that, still refuse to be cruel in kind. Sansa is the only one who looks at Sandor Clegane, looks at the ruin fire made of his face, and see that his eyes are why he’s so ugly - and then reach out to show him mercy. The girl who was beaten everyday of her time in King’s Landing, and still mourned Joffrey because he was a person and he died and she understood that it was still awful. She wishes knights who literally beat her bloody would fall off their horse, then feels bad and ashamed when they do. Sansa Stark is kind above all.

And the show took this character and made her cold. They tried to make her Littlefinger. Surprise! Nobody cares about the emotional well being and happiness of Petyr Baelish for a reason. Thankfully Bryan Cogman was there to run interference between Sansa and D&D, so she wasn’t fully the Ice Queen D&D wanted her to be, but goddamn how do you take Sansa “if I am ever Queen, I’ll make them love me” Stark and make her cold?!

The biggest problem with stripping the Stark kids individually of their emotions, is that they can no longer exist as the family GRRM created them to be. Without Arya, Bran, and Sansa’s emotional arcs, everything becomes meaningless. Who cares that Ramsay Bolton is the one to rebuild Winterfell in the show? Certainly not an audience that hasn’t been told to care.

You’ll notice a trend in the type of chapters that D&D decided not to adapt into Game of Thrones; think of all the chapters that are the emotional heart of GRRM’s story. Not the shocking character deaths, or dragons, or plot twists. The moments of intimacy between GRRM, his character, and you as the reader. The moments so small yet so impactful, the lines you remember not because they pushed the plot forward but because they honestly moved you in a way that you felt hope, longing, love? Those chapters are almost always either from Bran, Sansa, or Arya; and are always about their connection to their family. D&D adapted none of them. Here’s three great examples:

Done with Wooden Teeth

When Arya is a serving girl at Harrenhal during A Clash of Kings, it really sucks. Unlike the show, she is not cup bearer to Tywin Lannister; she is just like everyone else: abused, mistreated, underfed, miserable, and uncared for. She’s already at a pretty low moment in life, then the news breaks that Bran and Rickon were murdered by Theon Greyjoy and Winterfell has been sacked. And Arya doesn’t even have someone to grieve with; the one person she tries to tell, Elmar Frey, tells her nobody cares about a serving girl’s brothers when he’s just lost his Princess (the irony...).

The news that her family is dead almost breaks her:

As Arya crossed the yard to the bathhouse, she spied a raven circling down toward the rookery, and wondered where it had come from and what message it carried. Might be it’s from Robb, come to say it wasn’t true about Bran and Rickon. She chewed on her lip, hoping. If I had wings I could fly back to Winterfell and see for myself. And if it was true, I’d just fly away, fly up past the moon and the shining stars, and see all the things in Old Nan’s stories, dragons and sea monsters and the Titan of Braavos, and maybe I wouldn’t ever fly back

This is Arya giving up. Everything she’s done in this book so far has been to get back to Winterfell, or to Jon at the Wall. Her making the decision to fly away (which she’ll follow through on in A Storm of Swords) is a defeat, the acceptance that she’ll never get her family back.

If the chapter had ended here (it doesn’t), D&D still would’ve gutted it, because no Stark gets to react to Bran and Rickon’s death in the show. Not even a minute of screentime given to the Heir to the North and his brother dying; not a moment where their family can grieve the tremendous loss.

But Arya is a Stark, so before she gives up on her identity, she visits the Godswood:

“Tell me what to do, you gods,” she prayed.

For a long moment there was no sound but the wind and the water and the creak of leaf and limb. And then, far far off, beyond the godswood and the haunted towers and the immense stone walls of Harrenhal, from somewhere out in the world, came the long lonely howl of a wolf

The Godswood is very important to the Starks for a couple different reasons. First, only the men of the North worship the Old Gods, and the trees is the connection they have to them. The Old Gods were who Ned went to for guidance, and every single Stark has huge moments of understanding in front of a Godswood (none of which made it into the show...). But, more specific to the Starks as a family, Bran speaks to his family through them and guides them toward home. So even though they don’t understand that Bran is calling to them, the Starks are drawn to the trees for help.

And the trees always answer them. The Starks get a real, physical response when they ask the Godswood for help:

Then, so faintly, it seemed as if she heard her father’s voice. “When the snows fall and the white wind blows, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives,” he said.

“But there is no pack,” she whispered to the weirwood. Bran and Rickon were dead, the Lannisters had Sansa, Jon had gone to the Wall. “I’m not even me now, I’m Nan.”

“You are Arya of Winterfell, daughter of the north. You told me you could be strong. You have the wolf blood in you.”

“The wolf blood.” Arya remembered now. “I’ll be as strong as Robb. I said I would.” She took a deep breath, then lifted the broomstick in both hands and brought it down across her knee. It broke with a loud crack, and she threw the pieces aside. I am a direwolf, and done with wooden teeth.

In her lowest moment, Arya re-finds her strength by remembering she is a Stark, a direwolf who belongs to a pack. The Godswood gives her Ned as comfort, as a reminder of who she is and what she should do. There is an incredible emphasis on family here. It would be impossible to adapt this chapter unless the writers and audience fully understood just how committed to each other the Starks are - which is why they didn’t adapt it.

I’m Not Dead Either

When Bran finally leaves the crypts at the end of A Clash of Kings, he’s close to giving up on himself entirely. He spent three days inside Summer, and returning to the body he views as broken (”Bran the Broken” is something he calls himself when he feels upset, not the monikor he’d give himself as King) is really hard for him. And when he finally leaves the crypts, he comes out to a Winterfell that has been destroyed; Ramsay has set the place ablaze and killed everyone. Bran knows Ser Rodrik is dead and Maester Luwin is soon to be as well. He looks around him and sees all this destruction, all he smells is fire or blood. But one thing in Winterfell stands unharmed; Summer takes off running for the Godswood:

The air was sweeter under the trees. A few pines along the edge of the wood had been scorched, but deeper in the damp soil and green wood had defeated the flames. “There is a power in living wood,” said Jojen Reed, almost as if he knew what Bran was thinking, “a power strong as fire.”

After Bran says goodbye to Maester Luwin, and him and Rickon part ways with no idea where either is heading, Bran has one last moment to look on Winterfell and find hope:

Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all. The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought, I’m not dead either.

Bran looks back at Winterfell, and because he’s able to see the unharmed Godswood and the Kings of Winter still seated on their thrones, he can understand it’s not dead, just like him. Again, a Stark is drawing strength from their connection to each other, and through a Godswood.

I Am Stronger Within the Walls of Winterfell

This next one, you’re probably thinking “but the show did adapt Sansa’s snow castle chapter”, and I’m here to tell you they didn’t. I could write an entire book on how that scene is the perfect example of how adaptations fail; they *technically* adapted it, with pretty much the same events, but it was completely stripped of its emotional impact and narrative importance. It is the perfect microcosm of why Game of Thrones was a bad adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire, as well as how D&D consistently missed the emotional beats the Starks were supposed to have.

The show’s version of this chapter somehow centers it around Littlefinger, while simultaneously underselling the fact that Lysa killed Jon Arryn (they sandwiched this episode and scene between Tyrion’s trial and Oberyn’s death, when this chapter ends A Storm of Swords. All of the climaxes in that book, and GRRM saved this one for last). The end product is a rather forgettable scene that most people overlook.

In the book, this chapter is everything. It is the best chapter in asoiaf, and the best writing of anything ever. Period. And it’s a chapter centered around Sansa’s relationship to her home, to Winterfell. Unlike the very small castle of the show, Sansa spends hours building a castle big enough that she can step inside and continue building details. The fact that she can stay outside for hours, while several onlookers get too cold and go back inside, is a reminder that she is a Stark.

And this chapter is centered around a Godswood. The tree never took root, because the Eyrie is too high for weirwoods, but the courtyard Sansa’s in was meant to be a Godswood. And since she doesn’t have a real one, Sansa builds her own inside her snowy Winterfell.

Being up in the mountains is also the first time Sansa’s seen true snow since she said goodbye to Robb in Winterfell, and just the thought of it makes her dream of home and of memories with Bran and Arya. She wakes up having dreamed of home, and thinks she’s sleeping next to her sister until she wakes up enough to realize she’s not in Winterfell.

When Sansa’s alone with no real connection to home, she finds the closest thing to Winterfell (the failed Godswood) and builds her own. She literally gains strength from it:

She wondered where this courage had come from, to speak to him so frankly. From Winterfell, she thought. I am stronger within the walls of Winterfell.

Her home and her family give her strength to stand up to her abuser, just as Arya was able to escape the abuse of Harrenhal and Bran escaped the Boltons.

There is way more than these three instances, but these are the best examples of D&D failing to adapt the Starks as a pack, or as individuals with feelings. Of course the ending didn’t feel right emotionally, because we had no explanation for what emotions led our Starks to their destinies.

I’ll probably make a post specifically about this in a couple days or weeks, but I can see GRRM’s ending stuck within D&D’s sloppy rush to the end:

The first time Arya leaves Westeros, she leaves because she thinks all her family is dead or taken, and that Winterfell is gone forever. At the end, she’ll leave because she is sure her family loves her, and that she has a room in Winterfell whenever she wants to visit Good Queen Sansa. Arya is also fast to make friends of all different people, and would start her own pack of rogues as she travels the world.

Sansa won’t be alone because she, like Arya, is good at finding her own pack. (And GRRM has built his world out so extensively, it’s honestly a joke to think we could be in a crowded room and recognize no one). Sansa’s friends are her people. She throws feasts constantly, and like Ned, always has a seat at the High Table for the small folk. She has many ladies in waiting, true friends of hers that help her write songs and stories, and sew dresses. She is a good and kind Queen, and visits the Wall constantly as she helps the Lord Commander resettle the Gift.

King Bran the Wise (or ya know, just not broken) rules from his Weirwood Throne on the Isle of Faces, at the heart of his kingdom. After Daenerys burns King’s Landing, he moves the capital since The Red Keep was a monument to Aegon’s Conquest - a symbol of tyranny King Bran is trying to move forward from. He fills his council with highborn and lowborn alike. He constantly talks to his siblings; Sansa waits for him at the Godswood, and Arya and Jon see him through Ghost and Nymeria. 

Just because they’re far in distance, doesn’t mean they aren’t a pack. They all know the others are safe, and that they’ll see see each other soon. GRRM will invest the right amount of time explaining the emotional beats of this ending to make it feel right. He cares so much about the Starks. He wrote them a whole epic fantasy because he saw Bran finding pups in the snow. He loves them more than we do, guys. 

The Starks are the Giants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[him-e]

"#i will never recover from dany's arc #it killed and buried me" why such strong feelings? is it because you enjoyed it from beginning to end? or is it because of how they concluded it and how things seem now in retrospect? maybe both? and she wasn't/isn't even a fave of yours, was she?

Both, but mostly the second, and I just can’t reconcile the fact that I DID enjoy it, even the end, in a weird way (because I’m a sucker for tragic antiheroes + existential tragedies and because Emilia’s performance gave show!Dany a depth that I didn’t believe was possible) with the fact that I wanted something completely different from her arc, and the story in general, and I just have no idea what to do with this finale or how I’m supposed to feel about the series now. I find it hard to look back at season 1 knowing this is her endgame, and the story’s endgame by extension (because yes, the two go hand in hand, more on that later). 

I can’t even shrug it off as bad writing like I have done in the past with True Blood, for example—while the writing was questionable, I’m pretty sure the main beats of the story remained faithful to George’s outline (and it’s not like this is a character twist that doesn’t have roots in what Dany is, in what her struggle and her main character conflict has always been: to be a good queen—but also, to take what is hers. To fulfill her destiny. To live up to the enormous responsibility of being the last drop of the blood of old Valyria with three dragons under her command. Of all the main characters in asoiaf Dany is the most aware of her chosen one role, and the one who clings the most to the idea of being born for greatness, of having a bigger purpose. Like, her entire identity is built around that. It’s both her fuel and her coping mechanism and if THAT falls apart, she will too. She has foils in Stannis and in book!Aegon, and everyone in the asoiaf fandom seems to agree that their stories are going to end horribly, but is their chosen one hubris wrong and doomed to a tragic fall only because they’re not the real deal? I mean, is this a narrative that would satisfy George RR Martin?)

anyway yes I have strong feelings because Dany’s arc is inextricably tied to the overall story. She isn’t just a main character; she’s quintessential. And not just because she’s the titular “Fire”---she’s absolutely iconic and representative of this series in a way that not even the individual Starklings are, imho. And okay maybe she’s never been one of my “faves”, in the sense that maybe there are characters whose internal conflict I find more relatable on a personal level, or pov chapters I enjoy reading more (and I blame this on the fact that Dany’s chapters lack interaction with other main characters, or connections with the main action in Westeros, which makes them less engaging compared to others), but I literally cannot imagine asoiaf without the thrill and the anticipation that her storyline provided. Her progressive rise in Essos was, book after book, season after season, the measure of where the story was going—the sign that it was going somewhere at all. Because why else would Martin waste entire chapters detailing the evolution of a character with seemingly no connection to the main plot? The more powerful she got, the closer she was to Westeros, to the moment her story would intertwine with the rest of the cast. Her dragons were getting bigger, eating people, becoming unruly? Good, because they’d need to be huge to defeat the Others. etc.

and it’s really hard to look back at those expectations now, at that whole build up. Because what season 8 really did was dismantling the chosen one myth—her chosen one myth—piece after piece and leaving her with nothing but rage and bitterness. Combined with Jon’s arc, it was a complete negation of the chosen one narrative, actually. And this—this, my friends, I believe is absolutely in line with what GRRM would do, even if the execution and the details will probably differ a lot. But I’ll eat my hat if George misses the opportunity to explore the psychology of a prophesied hero who suddenly and rather unceremoniously loses his purpose (worse: didn’t live up to the role he imagined for himself) and is left directionless, his or her identity deflating like a balloon. Now, if there’s one thing I’m absolutely certain the show botched and the books will do better is keeping Dany’s pov front and center (rather than having her retreat into essentially an object, no longer able to critically examine her own action, suddenly immune to feelings of guilt and conflict so that she can be summarily judged mad and executed by the pov male heroes), and have her existential tragedy be mirrored by Jon’s more poignantly. (I’m also fairly certain that Martin will be able to have an entire coda dedicated to the final deconstruction of the chosen hero narrative without making the War for the Dawn look like a mild inconvenience, but that’s another topic)

but I also completely understand and feel for those who would absolutely HATE this character twist in the books anyway, even if done 1000x better. Dany’s story being a tragedy makes the whole story a tragedy, and has a serious impact on the rewatchability/rereadability of the series. Not that we were expecting a full blown happy ending, but there’s bittersweet and there’s… making a character arc collapse on itself after destroying every meaningful relationship she’s ever had, without even letting her have some final words or acknowledge her mistakes or have any sort of agency in her death—when her entire arc has been finding her own agency, her own voice. agh. :// it just keeps hurting.

[mademoiselle-luz]

The Bells ; GoT s08e05 : a Rant

I saw the last GoT episode last night, and I am livid. This episode is an insult.

It's an insult to GRR Martin, and the wonderful world he build for us ; it's an isult to the actors who spend almost a decade of their lives giving life to that story ; it's an insult to us, the fans, who have been enthousiastic about this show for years and years ; and it's an insult to these characters who we saw growing up through the seasons.

They erased years of characters' development for shock value. Sure, we didn't see this coming, but it's not because it's genius, it's because what you wrote went against any logic and consistency.

The characters' choices made no sense. Their actions were so OOC it would be ridiculous if it weren't so tragic.

I like Varys. He may have made problematic choices, but it always was for the greater good. Choosing a Targaryan over another because he has a cock is straight up ridiculous, even insulting to his character. Varys (like Theon) spend his life being the butt of every cockless jokes (shame on you Tyrion), and his entire argument about Jon being a better ruler than Daenerys is centered around the idea that because he has a cock, because he is male, he's worthy of the throne ?

I'm not saying Varys choosing Jon is OOC. I'm saying the arguments he used were problematic and highly simplistic coming from him. And his death in the middle of the night, on the sly, is an insult to him and to Daenerys.

Daenerys Targaryan is the Queen. If she is to execute a traitor, she will do it in broad daylight, in front of her people, to show her power. She was so OOC these last episodes, it was sickening : the poor woman can't keep a clear head !

Her line about "So it will be fear" (or something to that effect) was insane. Because Jon rejects her as a romantic/sexual partner, she turns into that bloodthirsty Mad Queen ?

Maybe I could see it if Jon had rejected her authority and went for the throne for himself, but that's not the case.

Daenerys is not perfect. But I think she is perfectly capable of drawing the line between her love life and her duty as Queen. Explain to me how she could go from "I don't want to be Queen of the ashes" to Mad Queen over fucking bells.

That bell thing was a hot mess. Tyrion obsession with those bells was so cringey. Subtility is dead, my friends.

Now, there is one person I could see going mad over those bells and it's Cersei fucking Lannister.

Cersei is a villainess, yes, but she is a good one. I don't like her, but I understand her, I know where she's coming from : the way Robert and Tywin treated her, her hatred for Tyrion, her uncondional love for her children, even her complicated relationship with Jaime. We are given reasons, explanations.

The Cersei I saw in this episode wasn't the Cersei I saw all those past seasons. Cersei is proud, she's strong. She's not some whimpering mess that let others tell her what to do (Qyburn ? really ?) and doesn't want to "die like this".

Of course she doesn't want to die like this, like a coward. If she has to die, she will take the whole of King's Landing with her.

When the bells rang and she understood that the Lannister Army surrendered, she should have burnt the city down with wildfire. She deserved to be the Big Bad and do what the Mad King couldn't.

She send Bronn to kill Tyrion and Jaime both. Her reunion with her twin should never have gone this way.

No mercy. No surrender.

That is Cersei Lannister.

And Jaime... gods... Jaime...Take a shit on seven seasons of character development, why don't you !?

The Jaime I saw was the one I met in the first episode of the first season, the one who'd do anything for Cersei. How can you make him say all that rubbish about not caring about people, innocent or not ? He killed the Mad King for those people. He sacrificed his reputaion, his honor for them.

For years, we saw him struggle between his devotion for Cersei, and his honor, what he knew was the right thing to do. Brienne is the embodiment of his better side. His retationship with her was a reflection of his inner evolution. And now he's choosing Cersei over her ?

I'll be honest, when he left Brienne in Winterfall, I had hoped he'd kill Cersei, to have a kind of closure knowing she would die by the hand of someone who understood and loved her.

It would have gone great with all the prophecy business too, but who's bothering with coherence nowadays...

Why giving us Braime and then... that...

I swear to the gods, if ser Brienne of Tarth is pregnant with a Lannister baby, I will kill someone ! My only remaining hope at this point, is for them to do right by Arya Stark, at least.

Arya Stark is a Master Assassin. She is a Faceless Woman. She killed the Night King. She is strong and she is committed, and above all else, she is a survivor. Not the lost little girl I saw last night.

She rejected Gendry's proposal to go kill Cersei Lannister, because Cersei imbody her family fate. For Arya, Cersei is the one person responsible for destroying her family. Killing her is more important than killing the villain, more personal than killing the Night King. It's achieving closure. It's avenging her family. It's putting her ghosts to rest.

And they robbed her of that and for what ? Showing us just how mad Daenerys went ? The amount of screen time spend on all that suffering made me sick. Honestly, it was gross. How many burning, bleeding bodies do we need to see ?

Okay, we get it : Daenerys Bad, Jon Good. You don't need to shove it down our throats like that. Seriously, that was gratuitous violence at its finest. That was not a battle, it was a senseless bloodbath.

I miss the Battle of the Blackwater and the Battle of the Bastards. Those were good, proper battles, with real tactics and strategies, not the clusterfuck we witnessed.

And what is that mess with the Hound ? Yeah, it's cute how they went from Mortal Ennemies to Pseudo Father/Daughter Relationship, but dear god, how patronizing can you be ?

Arya doesn't need Sandor Clegane pernission to go on with her life. She's a fighter in her own rights. Again, she killed the Night King. Sure, she had help, but in the end, she was the one to do it, to save Westeros. If she is to abandon her plans, to abandon the whole reason for her whole character arc, at least, let her do it on her own.

She doesn't need some pseudo-father figure to tell her she's wrong. She's a grown woman, not some little lost girl in need of guidance. Not anymore.

And seriously, the way she acted after her decision ? Has she lost every skills she ever possessed ? Episode 3 was all about her stealth and assassin skills and now she's bumbling around like an idiot ?

If Gendrya isn't endgame and Sansa Stark doesn't end up being Warden/Queen in the North, so help me god, I will spontaneously combust from sheer rage !!!

[looseinthecatroom]

This “live” blog (or just reaction in that case I suppose?) under the cut and in one post because this ain’t a fandom where we can have spoilers and thoughts running around willy nilly so soon after an episode comes out!

- Poor sweet Jon. Poor confused detonator losing disaster. Better hope that slight immunity to The Unknowing you get from vague archivist powers kicks in soon.

- “ ’Ello Daisy!”

Here it comes! I don’t know what “it” is! But something very bad is definitely going to happen to one of you! Personally my bet’s on Breekon and Hope getting their asses kicked in.

- Roughly 20 seconds later:

*Horrific strangulation noises and Daisy laughing manically.*

Eyuuup.

- Diiiid Basira just whoop Tim’s angry little butt like it was nothing out of self defense or am I misreading that and Tim just landed a pretty weak hit which then confused her?

I choose to believe that she just whooped his butt personally.

- “Ohhhh! You caught me! I’m...... Sasha!”

I fucking love Nikola.

- Issssn’t going so deep as to not know what a hand, or a gun, or what have you, is anymore kind of a teensy bit right of center for the Stranger? It feels more Spiral then Stranger to me at least as I/we understand them right now.

‘Course I’ll be the first to tell you that the overlap between entitys is hella common and hella intentional given how little we/humanity is supposed to understand about them / roll my eyes when someone’s trying way too hard to fit something within a statement super neatly into a single powers domain, sooooo. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

- “Pathetic.”

My ass:

- =( Gertrude (/Nikola. Obviously ~Is it partially her? Is it in no way actually her opinion? Who knoooows?~ is intentional.) leave the failure boy be. You were head archivist for 50 years if I recall. He’s got time. Weak sauce taunt Gertrude/Nikola.

- LOVE  the chewy symbology to dig into in how Nikola’s voice isn’t present for for the last “This is your fault!” of their guilt trip.

-Leitner: “Before you left me to get my head bashed in”

by a brutal extended pipe murder. Finish the sentence Leitner. Any excuse to use that phrase again is a good one.

-Leitner: ”But you’ve somehow managed to fit more bad decisions into two years then I did in a lifetime!”

Oh. My poor self hating disaster archivist. That one isn’t even remotely true AND I doubt even Jon would be thick enough to believe it without the Unknowing’s influence. =‘(

Also he knows who Jurgen is without any prompting at all so.... time seems to be nearly up for keeping him confused Nikola. >.>

- OH! Duh! Daisy has “vague servant of an entity powers” herself too. Thanks for that Hunt and/or Slaughter. That’s why she’s a bit more on the ball then the others. Nearly forgot about that till he called her an animal.

- “Almost a shame you don’t know your own coffin. But you will.”

- Basira is back sans angry Tim. She did in fact clock him.

- Listening to Basira puzzle stuff out makes me think that Melanie and Martin were back benched for this one because writing wise it would have given us way too much insight into the soul of their character and the way they function under real pressure for right now. I’m all for more character development for those two. Like probably more then any of the other assistants, but yeah, it doesn’t feel like the right time for it (Particularly for Martin) with all the other shit going on right now.

The last thing Martin needs right this instant is a do or die situation AND also Jon almost certainly wouldn’t kill him off without resolving the crush plot line / just more of his character in general so... yeah. No Martin in THE center of the action this time.

- Jon: “I see you...”

AYYE there it is. Time’s up girl.

- “Sarah”: ”Probably the Hunters idea. She killed one of the courier's.”

Time to drop that /Slaughter part apparently. Hunt it is.

- Ohh. Oh. I DO like what the avatars bickering with each other tells us about how close they are (well, aren’t then) to the pure ideal of the Stranger.

- Ok. Or Tim just ran off confused to go maul someone else.

- “Shall I?”

Oh hell yeah. Good audio is good.

Also? “My asshole boss”?

Aye Tim. Yeesh.

You know, Mike LeBeau’s comment about wanting to just slap Tim sometimes is hella relatable, and I was glad that even his actor is definitely feeling it this arc. >.>

If Martin weren’t Martin (pushover) and Jon weren’t Jon (piss self esteem) Tim probably wouldn’t have gotten this far along his “Jon’s a dick (Or even still properly your boss tbh) and not a victim (a paranoid disaster, but a victim) here” train of thought.

- SO

Soooo...

Kaboom.

Well Basira ran away given her last bit.

Daisy is in a probably explosion proof coffin, and either safe for now or very much already dead/worse then dead, so that’s her sorted.

Jon and Tim? They’re in the same room. Now. Jon’s not going to die yet probably. Yeah it COULD be that kind of show. I definitely don’t want to tempt fate here, but I just don’t see Johnny killing him off just yet for a whole buncha reasons unless it IS that kind of show, and they really need that gut punch to work with. (pls no. thx)

Soooo... the slightly deus ex machina of a power of some sort intervening to save him? Elias using yet unknown Beholding powers to save him? Another power’s avatar pulling his ass out of the fire again? At least it probably won’t be Helen, a.k.a. the one who usually shows up to save him, because having him rescued from this exact building by powers twice would be a bit bland, let alone by the SAME power twice. So who knows.

OH, know what WOULD be a good path to head down and not feel to arbitrary OR repetitive??

Mr. Spider to the rescue? >.>

Learn some stuff about the Web maybe? Could be a thing. Could not be a thing. Wouldn’t be a BAD time to start off/set up more Web plot lines by any means.

At any rate, imma have to guess that some fun / not as used / maybe mostly new plot line is about to get some love, because bitch, I don’t see any other smart way out for these nerds. >3>

(Of course, I might have missed something. Some clever escape setup that was already there within the current arc’s plot lines. It IS TMA after all. =p)