#is alice actually the one from the tma universe???

[thanatos-zagreus-shagreus]

Fucking hell Alice knows something about the tape recorders that she ain't telling us

[jo1sstuff]

I think I know who the Archivist is, and it's not Jon. (TMAGP SPOILERS AHEAD)

(TLDR: I think it's Celia. Read on to see why!)

So.

I know the title sounds kinda click-baity, and this is gonna be a bit long, but this is such a ground-breaking theory that you'll hopefully want to stick around.

This is just a theory, so I might be wrong, but it would explain a lot.

I listened to TMAGP 29 earlier, and since my sister doesn't listen to TMA/TMAGP but I like to talk to her about it, I was mentioning the whole "It's on the train" thing, and a crazy theory popped in my head. So now I'm here sharing it with you all, so you can discuss it and maybe prove me wrong/right.

Anyways, I'm gonna start with something that might seem confusing at first, but it'll make sense later.

So we all know Celia, right?

Well, it's pretty much confirmed that she's from the TMA universe, but there are still a few things that don't quite make sense.

For example, the 'sleepwalking' thing she does. She'll wake up somewhere with no memory of what happened.

While I've seen some theories explaining it as the TMAGP Celia sharing a body with TMA Celia, it doesn't make much sense to me. Why would the TMAGP Celia still be in there? Wouldn't TMA Celia be able to communicate with her? Why hasn't anyone else mentioned seeing Celia when she 'sleepwalks'? Wouldn't TMAGP Celia have friends that would talk to her? If so, why wouldn't they notice it's not the same Celia?

Anyways, that theory just doesn't make sense to me.

Another thing that will make sense later: We all remember Michael Distortion from TMA, right?

And how his reflection looked different than how he sometimes looked in person?

An Avatar looking different through glass; whether through Sasha's window, or in the reflection of the cafe's window.

That was the thought that made me first come up with this theory.

The other thought was the "It's on the train" bit.

Sam and Celia get on a train to 'follow' the Archivist. Alice, however, sees it on the train with them.

(technically we don't know for certain that it was the Archivist, or if it was in or on top of the train, but it context makes it seem like the Archivist was in the train with them)

Why wouldn't Sam and Celia notice it? It's a monster that's all eyes, how could they miss that? Sure, it might have been hiding, but they likely weren't the only passengers on board. So why didn't the other passengers see it?

Well, what if they do see it, just not it the right way?

Because of the whole 'avatar looking different in windows' thing, what if that's why they don't notice?

Because they're not looking through the window?

Alice is though.

Alice is looking through the window.

She sees it.

What if, the Archivist is in a human form, but Alice can only see it because she's looking through the glass at it?

But who would it be?

Celia.

It's Celia.

Who else could it be?

What if, when she's 'sleepwalking', she's actually in Archivist form?

Sam got Archived, after all. And shortly after that, Celia appeared.

Wouldn't Celia have noticed the Archivist leaving?

Unless she just came to.

And she's so used to it happening, that she isn't bothered by the time she finds Sam.

Who knows how far away she got, after all. Maybe it was only one alley away, maybe it was a few blocks.

She'd have some time to compose herself.

And after that disorienting event, she managed to find her way to the O.I.A.R. and found Sam.

She was in the same area and time-frame the Archivist was there.

It's her.

Another thing: The statement-givers. Aka, the talking corpses. Aka, people that got Archived by the Archivist.

I'll bet that every time it mentions Celia having a 'sleepwalking' episode, it was around the same time that someone got Archived.

I'm not gonna go back through the episodes to see if I'm right on that, but if someone else will, it would be very much appreciated.

How exactly Celia became an Archivist, I don't know.

Maybe when she changed universes the Eye decided to make her its new 'precious little boy girl'. Maybe (if we believe that TMAGP is Somewhere Else) the Archivist part of Jon got stuck in Celia. Maybe she even became an Avatar by herself, who knows! I certainly don't.

Another thing I don't know is whether she'd remember what happens when she's the Archivist.

She seemed surprised to find Sam, after all.

And (if I remember right) she doesn't know how she gets to places while she's 'sleepwalking'.

I also don't know how Jack fits into this, but he's a mystery of his own.

Anyways, feel free to chip in with your own thoughts and criticisms, I could be completely proved wrong next episode after all!

[helpimstuckposting]

TMAGP 30 Speculation

Now that it’s season finale time, I’ve got a LOT to say and a lot of ideas so I will ramble them here and either I’m horribly wrong or horribly right but unfortunately we have to wait to find that out

First, I can’t believe Alice had two mysterious talks with her friends saying they have something super important to say with a horrified quiver to their voices and she didn’t have time to listen to EITHER of them. Teddy and Colin are high high high on the list for ‘died off mic and we only find out next season’

Since Gwen was promoted (idiot) and Sam is… mmm… missing, it looks like the OIAR will need to fill at least one position, and I think it would be fun if Teddy came back to take his place as a main character. It’s possible that what he had to say was “This new job… it’s not exactly [working out]” and he was simply looking for a new one, and it’s no more ominous than that. If that’s the case, I can absolutely see him taking his position back next season. Colin’s probably dead, though, I’ll be shocked if he’s not tbh

Speaking of Colin, he called the system Freddy while talking to Alice. You know, the same guy that said “Don’t give it a personality. We shouldn’t even be calling it Freddy.” So the change up here is really blatant to me.

I’m still really attached to the idea that Jon and Martin (and Jonah’s) voices were stolen and they’re not actually trapped in the computers. However, I *do* think the voices are sentient, I just don’t think we’re right about who’s behind them. I think Freddy, the program itself, may be using the voices to push its own agenda and manipulate the decisions each OIAR employee is making. Alice gets a lot of JMJ errors, and is specifically the only person on staff who actively tunes the cases out and does not read into them.

OR, if it does turn out to be our guys, then I think it’s possible they’re working counter productively to Freddy, and the JMJ errors are a result of that — like they’re actively trying to work against Freddy. This could also be why Colin said he messed up, like maybe his attempts to deal with the JMJ errors made Freddy more powerful.

Either way, it seems the OIAR is in a huge bind going into season two. Colin probably did something buck wild and pissed the computer off, he’s probably dead, Sam is missing and they’ll need a new hire, Lena is gone (the only person who presumably knew anything that was going on) and Gwen just got promoted to boss despite having 1) absolutely no idea what’s going on with anything at all, 2) an inability to handle the externals and several panic attacks, and 3) no clue what Lena’s job even was, with no direction from the man who promoted her. It seems like even the PM has no real clue what the OIAR does, how it functions, or who it employs (“I’m sorry, do you hire a lot of murderers for contract and consultancy work?” - the answer is Yes, actually, several!)

Picturing the team next season as Alice, Teddy, Celia, and their boss Gwen is… a comedy of errors (or comedy of [ERROR]s? … Sorry) like that absolutely cannot go well. Although, we are pretty used to people being hired as a boss while they have no qualifications of the sort (also did not go well)

As for Sam, the Archivist, and Hilltop Road, I have a few questions about what could possibly happen. First, if the crack in reality was specifically calling for and tugging Celia toward it, we can probably assume that it’s the TMA universe on the other side, right? Which means Sam and the Archivist are now in our original beloved universe. I’m curious to see if Sam is just going to be MIA for the entirety of season two, or if we’ll get tape recordings of him at the same time as our TMagP friends, and we’ll have updates between both universes. I could see that being very interesting if some voice actors appear as two different people in the same episode (their TMA part, and their TMagP counterpart) but that would probably be really complicated to pull off in an audio format.

Also, we know the TMA fears cannot be separated, and that they’re possibly just one entity and have been one entity the whole time. That’s why they couldn’t start the apocalypse without all of them participating, and that’s why when Annabelle opened the crack in reality they all left the TMA universe. “Any attempt to separate the fears is doomed,” is what she said. She also said, “I would either travel with them, or I would die. I do not know which... Most would simply lose whatever power they have been gifted.”

So, if an archivist travels back through the crack in reality, what would happen to them? They’d be cut off from the entity that gave them power, right? So either the archivist will die, or maybe we’ll find out who Beth Eyre (the voice of [ERROR])’s character really is? Who they were before they became an archivist?

I don’t think they’d introduce [ERROR] and then just get rid of them without any resolution, which leads me to believe we will eventually find out what happened to Sam. I don’t think Sam’s just going to be dead or missing and never come back, I don’t see how there’d be any point to that. He is still the only person we know of who’s survived telling their whole statement, and even though he had a headache I feel like that must be significant. The janitor turned into a rock, I really don’t think a normal person would just walk away with a headache. Like, for all intents and purposes, Sam probably should have had his skin ripped off if we’re following the pattern of [ERROR] related deaths.

I hope next season focuses on Hilltop Road, because the lore in this episode was amazing. First of all, it was hard not to notice how each shop had a different danger. The custodian mentioned the drunk man walking into the newsagent and then he “ignored the smell of burnt hair and charred meat”. Then there was the shop that turned a woman into a mannequin, and Sam and Celia walked past the appliance shop where doors kept opening and closing, and the dentist that wanted peoples teeth. There was also the antique shop from episode 7 that almost buried the manager alive, plus the institute also used one of the units. I could be reading too much into it, but it feels like each fear from TMA has uhhhh… set up shop?

It’s also interesting to me that Annabelle said every owner on Hilltop Road in TMA was marked by the Spider, and died a grizzly death.

“So many schemers and spiders and full-throated monsters. Twisting manipulators and furtive liars. Each meeting a violent, grotesque end.” (TMA 196)

And the owner of Hilltop Center was no different.

“I found the owner dead in his office, with every blood vessel stripped from his body and strung around the room in a grim cat’s cradle.”

Not only did he die a violent and mysterious death, but his blood vessels were strung up ‘in a cats cradle’, which is pretty web-like if you ask me.

Anyway, I’m really really hoping to learn more about Hilltop Center next season, that’s the ONE thing I’m super latched on to post-finale

[thetriboulet]

Woooo so the Magnus Protocol premiered and I have things to say and things to overanalyse!

As we know, 'Chester', 'Neil' and 'Augustus' are, maybe?, Jon, Martin, and Jonah, respectively. Hence this:

And, of course, there's 'J1', 'M1' and 'J2' in the trailer.

However, I've seen confusion over the fact that the third 'Error' is voiced by Tim Fearon, who as far as I'm aware has not previously voiced any characters in the Magnus universe. Even though the name is distorted, I can make out what looks to be an H at the end of the name, so this very well may be Jonah.

My theory is this: 'Augustus' is Jonah (or just his voice). However, since the body of Elias was killed in the Panopticon, Jonah does not use Elias' voice anymore. Jon, Martin, and Jonah are all disembodied, if we are to believe they are somehow inside the computer/other technology (ie Alice/Sam's phone in the pub scene) or in some way somewhere adjacent to the world of Protocol. So it could, in a dream-logicy eldritch sense, follow that Jonah is able to survive in his own creepy old ass man way, and use his original voice. Obviously, I cannot corroborate this claim in any meaningful way. We have not heard Augustus speak yet, but I think it is a possibility nonetheless.

The fact that Augustus supposedly shows up to read cases aloud significantly less than Chester and Neil could also be a clue. Maybe Jonah is weaker than Jon and Martin due to his injuries, and is therefore unable to materialise as often as Jon and Martin. Maybe the voice that speaks the true cases (because, similarly to how true statements were identified using the tape recorder in TMA, I imagine true cases will be singled out using the text to speech system) is relevant to the case itself - ie, Jonah only speaks when a case is heavily linked to the Eye, etc.

Furthermore, there's the question of who is spying on who and when/why. By this I mean that we hear our perspective switch between devices (the phone, the computer, the security camera during Colin and Sam's interaction, etc), and I believe that this happens because one or more of the 'Errors' (as I am going to refer to them henceforth) is travelling between devices to spy on the characters' conversations. What we hear is dictated by what the Errors, characters who have prior knowledge of the Fears, deem important. This is backed up by the episode's closing scene: Colin's paranoid closing lines. It is clear that Colin believes someone is listening to them, and it is implied that he has made a connection between this and the Errors. What intrigues me is the Errors' motivation for doing this at all. If what they deem important is what we hear, and this is the first that we are hearing, then it seems to me that it is Sam's arrival that has given them cause for concern, or (in Jonah's case) hope (if he is plotting to return, or something, I don't put it past the scheming weasel). So, why are they listening? And how can we really tell if what we are hearing is the spying of Jonah, or of Jon and Martin?

Another thing. Jonny makes a point of letting us know that Alice does not think the work they do is of any significance, or is checked by anyone. She constantly mentions it in passing and is very casual in her attitude towards work. We obviously have the foresight to know this isn't true. The reason I point this out is because of what Sam does when filling out his paperwork: he ticks the 'Response' box, to which Alice responds that it doesn't matter. This could be nothing, it probably is nothing, but I feel like the fact that Sam has ticked the onboarding box of a mysterious department of an already mysertious organisation might come up later...

Yes I know I am jumping to a lot of conclusions, especially where the Errors are concerned. Please take every theory you hear, from me or anyone else, with a grain of salt, this is all speculative. From a writer's perspective, I honestly think it's pretty likely that Chester and Neil aren't actually Jon and Martin, and just their voices taken by the Web or something, but shh I can dream.

Edit: oh my god they changed his name to Norris that is even worse. Jonny and Alex were fr like 'neil is too kind, we need the name to be Chester levels of horrific'

[anthroposeen]

tmagp 12 relisten notes

Celia:

- requests tea, not coffee, the OIAR custom. points to her being from the TMA universe + bonus thing! there was no tea in the OIAR and sam lended her some. potentially a demonstration of their relationship dynamic lore-wise (celia representing other-wordly things and sam's insistence on interacting w them. this is definitely a reach, though, since im very much a 'the curtains are never just blue' person)

- she agrees to go out with sam but needs to "sort some things out" maybe related to jack, georgie, or her individual research

Sam:

- he asked her out! oh my god (alice's father)!

- is trying to distance himself from the magnus institute (TMI) but is still unable to break his curiosity about it

Alice:

- watched sam ask out celia (we can assume it was with the manner of a deer in the headlights)

- "its rude to have no game" i love you maam

- no glitch after she says "i cant believe im missing out on all of this- devastating" but could be because it comes off as more sarcastic than a blunt lie

- "we dont always get what we want, do we?" potentially a hint at her feeling about sam

- "i go by alice, now, actually" important only because i adore you miss dyer

- seems to genuinely care about gwen, lending to the idea that shes protecting her coworkers

- "i dont wonder. i know" no glitch followed this statement. it could be because it was meant as a joke and not to deceive gwen, but who is to say

Gwen:

- she's trying to discuss the morality of their roles and seems to be unhappy to participate in mascot strip club murder

- "you dont wonder what the point is? who benefits from all this awfulness?"

Glitches/lies:

- "dont worry about it, it wasnt that bad" alice, referencing TMI

- "no." sam, lying about not being interested in information about TMI

Incident:

- this is the result of gwen giving mr bonzo the hit, and it seems to have been read at her computer (once again implying theres a consciousness within FR3D1 or jmj)

- incident made by jordan bennett -> maybe related to this universe's bennett family (connection to barnabas bennett) but i doubt its lore relevant

- no obvious alchemic ties in this incident

- this case is narrated by norris/martin, but goes against the regular theme of his incidents (lonliness, loss of a loved one)

- the robotic sound of the narration seems to be diminishing, with very little of the beginning and end of the incidents being read in a monotone and robotic voice

- i want to voice my deepest appreciation for the title being "getting off", along with mr bonzo initiating a hit for the uk government in a strip club. incredible. absolute cinema from the minds of AJN and johhny sims truly

The target:

- before this episode, my theory was that klaus, colin, and teddy were the most likely to be the hit

- based on this list, if the target is the groom, it makes the most sense for it to be klaus, since there has been no mention of colin or teddy being engaged, and thats a clue i dont think the writers would leave out. however, the groom is called "baz" by his friends, which is a nickname i dont recognize (but its potentially on the rpg somewhere?)

- im not very convinced that klaus was the groom in this incident. i think the hit may have been obvious to lena, but gwen has yet to connect all the dots, leaving the audience a bit in the dark as well

[mythicalbirduniverse]

TMAGP EP 30 SPOILERS!!!

Also 5 paragraph rant coming, so be prepared

I just finished ep 30 an OMG WTFFF????

First of all, the groundskeeper dude that gave his statement was iconic bc I would also see bloodstains and still do the job if they added 10k to my salary

In one of the behind the scenes episodes on the magnus archives, they talked about how if you have a good twist at least a couple of people will guess what it is exactly, and I literally saw someone guess that Celia was from the tma universe, but I went "Noooo, there's no way she would actually be from the tma universe" and THEN THEY PULL OUT THE DAMN RIP IN THE UNIVERSE. I'm actually floored like omg

Sam was a very Jon-coded character, and now I see that they made those parallels on purpose to further conceal the twist that we were just delivered. I specifically found his childhood experience with the fears and his general curiosity to be very similar to Jons, as well as Sam appearing to be the protagonist of the series, as much as it has a protagonist. This harkens back to yet another post that I saw where instead of comparing Sam to Jon, they instead compared Sam to Sasha, with Alice filling a Jon-adjacent role.

I can see how the poster of this theory came to this conclusion, given Sam's immediate acceptance of the supernatural and his tendency to poke his nose into places where he does not belong. It is also a massive coincidence that they both were killed early on in their respective series, as well as for unknown reasons/reasons that were irrelevant to them. I can already tell that Alice will parallel Jon in the sense that they both blame themselves for the deaths of Sam and Sasha respectively.

I am very excited for the new episode to come out tomorrow, both to see who the new protagonist figure will be, as well as to see what will happen to Celia and Alice with the Eye/Jon-aligned creature still in the vicinity. Apologies for the rant!

[the-voldsoy]

TMagP S2 Predictions !!

We won't find out what happens to Sam until the S2 finale, or very close to it.

Colin will be dead or missing and we won't know what actually happened to him until his voice comes from the computer, reading a casement.

Teddy is either dead or working for the OIAR(/somewhere affiliated).

Gwen is overwhelmed and confused with work, unsure what she's supposed to do with the monsters at her door, and turns to Alice for help.

Lena is offered her job back, and/or already works at another branch/something related.

Celia keeps secret what happened with Sam but Alice suspects something. The "exchange" might not have worked and Celia tries to throw her in too, but I'm not sure about that.

Someone goes to Gertrude for help. She tells them to buzz off and threatens them, and we find out more about what happened to Gerry. She may or may not help them after this.

-> I think she helped burn down the Institute in this universe

In5oul becomes a bigger problem.

The Externals unionise (mostly a joke, but I do think one or more of them might turn on the OIAR).

2 new people are hired to the OIAR, and one will be someone from the TMA universe that Celia didn't know about (Sasha James for the new IT guy pleasepleaseplease)

At least 1 of these people from the TMA universe will show: Someone from Celia's old cult, Melanie, Annabelle Cane, and maybe one of the Stokers. I hope Michael appears but I doubt it.

Alice starts poking around TMI things and we learn more about her and the Institute in this universe.

We will get more Jonah Magnus lore, mostly in the form of casements about/from his acquaintances in this universe -- like Barnabas Bennett, Smirke, Rayner, etc.

We will hear more from Georgie and her past

[pain-is-too-tired]

Spoilers for The Magnus Protocol Season 1 finale

I-wow.

Sam no 😭

Sam did not deserve that. Oh my gods. Idk if Alice is gonna get told the full thing but If so she's 100% not gonna forgive Ceila if she does.

I try not to over compare them to the Tma gang cause they're they own character

But Alice not forgiving Ciela would be a actually clearer minded/reasonable reason of not forgiving someone than most of the "we don't forgive you Jon for stuff mostly out of your control or even partly our fault-" that tma had and I'd be so down for that

Like, tma kinda over did it with characters putting all the blame on Jon. Like it made sense in tiny bits, they couldn't really do anything against Elias or the eye and Jon took the brunt of that. But it became annoying after awhile especially in s5. Tim was the only one that at least had a big reason to hate Jon, stalking and all that. And they wrote him really making it clear the reasons for his hatred and distrust.

So- if Alive goes a similar route, with even more reason to hate Ciela if she finds out what Ciela wanted to do, I'm so down for that as long as it isn't annoying.

Also, speaking of that. Oh my gods. This made me realize... did she switch to Tmp universe before or right at the world going back to normal? Like, we don't knew how she got to tmp universe. But I do wonder, maybe some people got sucked in with the fears? The specifics of that I'm not sure of, but it's kinda interesting. Assuming she IS from tma universe which I'm pretty sure she is. She says there's nothing to go back to, might be because she doesn't know things were reset.

Also. The Archivst... what was that? Why did it want it? It said "finally it's mine". Why did it want the tear? And. If it ends up back in tma universe... jeez.

Like, lot of people talk about the choice of how to end the eyepoclpse/fears in tma. The job vs everyone else thing. But if the fears could just..come back through? Just like that? Literally all that "let's just make it other universe's problem" was for nought. Obviously killing everyone was wild, and probably the Archivst/fears here are their own thing(probably very likely.) But,as mentioned by Ceila, something being displaced makes things unbalanced.

Does that apply to the fears? Is that also why it became a center piece for shops/other fears to be pulled to? Because it was trying to bring equallibruim to the universes?

Like...did they fuck up the other universes more then just giving them the fears? Did they cause an cosmic unbalanced they could come back to haunt them???

Also back to the Archivst. I saw some mention Jon(which unlikely,they seem to have a more feminine voice iirc) and another mention Tma Gertrude which I can see. Either way they do say an Archivst and it could be anyone. We know it seems be like the Archivsts in season 5 they came across. At least I think.

Anyway. Gods help Teddy and Colin. Part of me feels like they might be more part of the cast next season. That's gonna be something.

[sleeping-archivist]

haven’t done one of these in a while, BUT!!

my live reactions to tmagp ep 30 (w/ spoilers, obviously):

oh i am so deeply afraid for them!!! pick up your phone sam!!!

i’m american but this british transportation nonsense seems like a pain

NO COLIN STAY SAFE PLEASE COLIN

WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH FREDDY OMFG

noooooo colin :(

oh dear lord this is already stressing me out

uh oh gwen…

girl that’s not a threat that’s a fuckin promise

nooooo lena come back i miss u already

oh look who FINALLY checked his phone

celia i don’t like that you know things. when is your “complicated immigration status” getting exposed???

a dentist?? oh i would NOT go to that dentist

y’all went at NIGHT??? respectfully you deserve whatever is abt to happen to you, this is horror movie 101

DO NOT GO INTO THE OLD APPLIANCE STORE

a suspicious door, you say??

CHRIST trevor that scared the shit out of me

oh wait that’s not trevor lmao

does this place have a “store” or a unit or whatever for each of the fears or however they manifest in this universe??

honestly this custodian guy is so real for this

noooo alice are you alone rn?? babygirl 😭

TAPE RECORDER

one normal night, one normal night, one normal night, custodian guy wants…

who the fuck IS this guy tho??

WAIT IS THIS A STATEMENT

omggggg hi archivist 💋

“a wound that never fully heals” well maybe… a wound between worlds????

WHO’S THE OWNER WHO IS IT

dude your job sucks lmao

WINTER OF 97

A LIGHTER I AM SCREAMING

IS IT UNIT 17 THAT’S OPEN????

AN OLD WOMAN??? MARY KEAY????

the way i am going bonkers in the middle of

the whimpering… if this is jon i will lose it

you NEVER go have a look!! you little fool!!

oh that’s not— fix ur mannequins pls and thank u

oh EW put your blood vessels back in!!!!

“it is rough and cold and silent inside” oh i do not like this actually

“cold gray pours down my throat and fills my stomach with stone” like that one statement with the cement???? am i reaching????

WE ARE HILLTOP???? WHAT

oh bye tape recorder 👋 that was truly horrid thanks so much!!

CALL HER BACK DUDE

DO. NOT. GO. TO. THE. HILLTOP. BASEMENT. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

WHAT ARE WE SEEING PLS SHARE W THE CLASS

wdym ALMOST girl???

this is an entirely valid outburst from sam, go off king <3

YES YES YES CELIA LORE

which means you should probably go back celia!!

IF YOU SHOVE SAM INTO THAT WOUND BETWEEN WORLDS—

HI ARCHIVIST!!!!!!

i’m sitting in this hallway like 👁️ 👁️ right now. this is INSANE

no excuse me i wanted the rest of that statement!!!!

oh hello again custodian guy, really fucked up thing for you to say tbh

omg hi again gwen <3 this is so bouchard of you and i love it

hi trevor!!

omg she got her promotion and yet… at what cost

can we get a status update on colin pls????

oh CELIA YOU DID NOT

THAT’S THE END OF IT????

so anyway i’m going insane now 😎 i didn’t have to wait between seasons when i listened to TMA and i don’t know if i’m gonna be able to do it now, omfg. great season finale but i may just lose my marbles until s2 starts releasing

[jazzically]

the magnus protocol episodes 4 through 7 — my live reactions not clickbait

magp 4

OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD IS THIS THE STATEMENT AND/OR ORIGIN OF ALFRED GRIFTER

omg i love how the literal only reason for hearing statements from the 1800s is gwen being behind on her work

ALSO I FRICKING LOVE THE MAGNUS PROTOCOL THEME

Oh my lord you know it's a good sidequel when you can already feel the itch to relisten to everything you just listened to

magp 5

Ok i do not know whether we say "a blast from the past" in America but i have heard that phrase like five times now from Brits all on the RQ magnus feed so im wondering if that's just an alexander j newall thing or !!! what (love it tho. i love it)

faith the unholy trinity referenced???? faith the unholy trinity!!!!!!?

aint no way he won the contest by coincidence LMAO

OOOH THIS IS SUCH A COOL FORMAT!!! ahh ... just how many ideas do they have for digital first-person storytelling mediums?? cuz with every new one i am fascinated

i wonder if jonny just flipped between soft speaker and robot while recording or if "[UNINTELLIGIBLE]" is a digital insert. if it's the latter i am VERY impressed although it's characteristic of jonny at this point lol

OOOooooOOoOoO personal relation is always extra spookyyy

i am also extremely impressed by the similarity in writing style. i can see it (in a good way) now that i'm looking harder, but i would never have guessed jonny didn't write all the episodes

also i just love how alex and jonny swap announcer roles sometimes (jonny as credits, alex as title/episode) for tmp

NOTE TO SELF: check out the cellar letters!!!!! omfg!!! it sounds fire!!!!

magp 6

aw that's such a sweet dedication message

URGH HAVE I MENTIONED I LOVE THE TMAGP THEME

i always wondered what the muffled falling-down-the-stairs noise at the end of the original theme was. it always put me in mind of the aesthetic of the beginning of portal 2 (and, later, the Buried coffin) idk why

I LOOOVE ALL OF THESEEEE none of them have been hard to get through at all?? which is rare for me bc i fail to pay attention to things for long unless they come in more than two forms of stimulus simultaneously (video + music, audio + fidget toy, video + candle)

AWIEE SAM AND CELIA 😭😭😭

Yes alice you do that matchmaking you are SUCH a girlboss

magp 7

OMFG CELIA DEFINITELY KNOWS SOMETHING

lmao jonny says ree instead of err ee now (for "re:"/regarding)

[ThEory time babes woooOoO]

heyyyy is this one of those other worlds that the fears got banished to. actually what happened to the dread powers? am not exactly clear on that (i hope it's on purpose). maybe the place where the dread powers exist alongside "our world" in tma is also adjacent to other worlds in exactly the same way?? like how a hexagon can be adjacent to six other hexagons??? that'd be sick and it would also explain why there wasnt an overwhelming amount of supernatural incidents in "our world" such that everyone was familiar with the dread powers and normalized safety procedures and such ... interesting au idea ... also the idea jonny proposed about a post-apocalypse world in the s5 qna... that one is cool too............ writers get on that (/j/j/j)

is tmp a separate world ??? they only said it was in the same universe as tma iirc

[wild speculation over]

RAAAAAA i LOVE the robotic voices' VAs' abilities to slowly transition into humanlike speech

cLaYtOn!!!!!? do i know that name or am i going crazy

perhaps i am yet again thinking of the worker of clay (see previous post)

LOOOLL "better than norris, whiny little toad"

OHMYGFUCKING GOD WAIT I RESCIND MY EARLIER STATEMENT!!!!!! THAT'S CANONICALLY JONATHAN SIMS' FRICKING VOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

hehehe ooooh you're evil writermen. how dare you use our constant uncertainty as to which characters you're referring to induced by your earlier repetition when naming characters (really there should be a limit as to how many michaels can be in one story) so that we are still unsure, even with prior knowledge, whether sam's mysterious "john" is actually the archivist or just some other john. good lord (im obsessed)

HOLY CRAP COLIN KNOOOWSSSSSSSS THINGSSS i just adore his role as the town crazy old man

omg alex's writing is incredible

[skyeoak]

Episode 28 thoughts

WHOAH ok buckle up

What car does Trevor drive 🤔 and did they make this bet after hearing the murder carriage case.

Hey Alice, uh, slipping out right before your coworker gets attacked is a little suspect, but it could just be setting up finale character placements so you’re probably fine.

On to the main event:

Oh Sam. All he wants is to be intellectually recognized, to the point where he’s put into multiple dangerous situations. And the creature who does want what he knows only wants to dredge up the trauma from his mind.

Speaking of those traumatic events…hell yes. The skeleton wants to be free. [funny story I got a picture of my actual skull on monday for a medical consult. Lmfo] I liked this story! It has the energy of a field trip gone wrong, but even the mundane bits were packed full of details that foreshadow or connect to the wider narrative. When shit hits the fan, we’ve got some nice visceral [wet] imagery. There’s also another nice parallel between Sam and TMA Jon here, the “Hello” setting off an unforeseen chain of events. And an honest-to-goodness Johnny Sims Zinger^tm at the end!

Also this was a great vocal performance 10/10 no notes.

Speaking of details about Magnus Institute works…Yellow light? Two older women? A chair? What was Welling trying to do? Was that a body hopper? Huh?

What I’ve figured out from comparing this episode to TMAGP 21 is that there seems to be a sort of a magnus institute brotherhood/gn with various sects, all trying to ‘transmute the great work’ or ‘achieve universal transmutation.’ (In Magnus’s time, only personal transmutations had been proven.) Welling was in the more popular sect it seems and led the team investigating the millenium dome (january 1998) before his [death? de-ossification?]. Episode 21 was a letter by a concerned objector in a different, more constellations/zodiac/(astrology?) concerned sect. Potentially the same interested party that asked for the constellation map looking east from a specific property in mag 27. Whatever the kids+chair situation is may be another magnus institute project entirely, or connected to one of the above sects in some way.

(Tmagp 21 also mentions that the magnus institute has political sway in England. Not sure how this translates to the 2024 tmagp government)

GOING BACK TO FIND WHO SAM? Find answers? One of your pals that you canonically have a guilty conscience over? A secret third thing? HMMM?

[akaikali]

TMAGP EP 24 REACTION (SPOILERS)

Oh boy are we starting with Gwen getting her job back?

Damn Gwen you are good with words. I do feel like she's doing this to investigate more about the Externals. And I think she's probably talking to Alice about this.

"Minister"? Oh GOD I'm gonna fucking hate this.

Lena is like "yeah no she's not being a brat I don't like this"

NORRIS MY BOYYYY YOU'RE BACK

GOD WHY IS IT A BABY ONE RIGHT AGTER A VAGUELY PREGNANCY BASED ONE WHYYYYY

IS THE BABY A DEMON. IS IT A DEMON. I THINK ITS A DEMON.

Okay but like also yeah nannycam horror stories are SOMETHING ELSE.

CELIA??????

THE BABY LIKES CELIA????? THE FUCK??????

WHY DOES THE BABY HAVE SHARP TEETH THE FUCK GUYS WHAT IS THIS WHAT IS HAPPENING.

...demon baby.

Health visitor?? What's a health visitor?? OH ITS A BRITISH THING OK

The mom's speech sounds more tired and slurred kudos to the VA, you can see the sleep deprivation is getting to her. Also it's like...Wow this poor mom. Sleep deprivation is the worst torture you can go through and she's going through it for her CHILD.

DUDE WHO HEARD THE CASE. WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT CELIA WAS MENTIONED. WHAT.

Okay Sam cool it. You're taking it too far. She was just asking a question.

Jesus Christ Sam you're supposed to be her friend why is your girlfriend nicer to Alice than you are.

Hey Sam, what the FUCK is wrong with you "not much we can do about it" YOU GAVE GWEN A FUCKING PANIC ATTACK???

Celia would be a good mom. Seriously she has to play mediator between Alice and Sam.

Also yeah switching sides, Sam you're a DICK (still love you though) Alice go be with Gwen and Celia please.

OH MY GOD

BASIRA?????

Holy shit she's a headmistress in this universe??? That actually makes sense-WHERES DAISY. WHAT ABOUT DAISY.

Yeah they're just giving clear signs that Celia was from TMA with the police officer question there's no doubt about it.

Sam why are you so BAD at this what the fuck Celia is fucking CARRYING this investigation.

Anyways Celia <3 Alice <3 Gwen <3

[atola]

So I've been brewing on this.

The world of tmp could be some form of a parallel universe, sure. My theory tho, is that it it's maaaaybe the same universe where tma happened - only with the apocalypse removed from the memory of the people.

If this is the case then Celia existing in this world is not surprising. She was always part of it after all. Same goes for why it's not bizarre to see a person with last name Bouchard.

Jhonny and Martin stopped the ongoing crisis sure, but you can't actually destroy fear. It's an instinct, a primary response, a survival skill. They could weaken the entities link to our plane but it's impossible to fully erase fears.

So, if the period of the eyepocalypse was wiped from memory, it is possible to have people remember parts of it. Celia could still remember Johns voice, maybe because he was a strong link to the eye. Similarly, what if Alice and Colin can also remember. Especially with Colin we now have heard him talk about "the worst of it", and with his open hate for the camera it's not such a far stretch to say he has encountered the eye. Alice as well has spoke of "the worse things".

If there are people in this world who can still (or have the potential to) remember the original fears it would make sense for these entities to want to have them in one place. The fears are weak, they hunger and even when they do make avatars - needless my beloved - they're barely strong enough to feed themselves.

Having a group of people who remember their true power, all stuck together in some dingy night shift job seems like a pretty good snack. And we know it's not that difficult for the web to organize this lovely office get together.

The fears are hungry, they're weak and angry and desperate and I'm sure they're ready to do anything to get back even a shred of their previous strength.

I'm sitting on the floor of my living room, rocking back and forth in front of the string board

[accidental-apocalypse]

Against my better judgement, can I ask about the 24k word TMA conspiracy board?

I like how you already know that you might regret this halfway through, self-awareness is important!

Against anon's better judgement, I hereby present the Original TMA Brainrot Document! *drumroll*

I've only had comment permissions on this document since today, actually, so all my added nonsense is FRESH!

General layout is this: the doc goes episode by episode until mid s4 (as you, beloved people, can see below), and then we follow it up with conspiracy rants, entity characterisations & rituals. Not only confirmed rituals, but also Ali's speculations, which are delightful.

Let's start out gently, shall we? First info we get on the document is about the Magnus Institute and its employees:

Yes, I know this is Hannah-from-the-library erasure, but she's on maternity leave. Good on her. If you, like me, have no idea who Sonia is, please comment because I feel very silly that I cannot remember her for the life of me. Thanks o7

Anyway!

Every episode entry will look like an approximation of this, with more or less red string ranting and "ohhhhh I know that name!!" depending on the episode.

What follows now is a highlight trip through things written by @alice-apparently and carefully chosen by yours truly.

Firstly, to highlight once again our different listening styles: Ali edited this document after pretty much every episode she listened to and I blazed through a quarter of s1 in one afternoon. Self-restraint? Never heard of her.

Cross-referencing like the good academic she is:

Ali's paranoia is rarely wrong, even when she doubts herself. Granted, she might run right past ginormous plot points, but none of the details shall escape her grasp!

Fun fact: in s4, we turned Ali's "I'm so worried about Martin" into a whatsapp sticker, THAT'S how often she texted me those exact words

Bone Apple Teeth. also something something DC Universe, help me out here folks bc I know zilch about DC save for Henry Cavill's Superman films (for shame, I know I know)

Jurgen Leitner??? Stupid idiot motherfucking Jurgen Leitner-

No but fun fact, Gerry Keay (and Mike Crew/Ex Altiora) is the reason Ali even started this doc, so we are very very attached to Gerry in this house and only mildly upset at Leitner's demise. Ceci n'est pas un pipemurder.

mag 39 "Infestation"

- WORMS

'nuff said

Poll time: the two genders are as follows ->

Michael's stabby shenanigans and not!sasha being, well, not Sasha. Rude.

I've hit the max image limit, so wait for the self reblog for more rambling if you so please <3

[drshrimpesquire]

[ Theory ] This is the Web's universe.

TMAGP Ep. 18 spoilers ahead!

In TMA, The Magnus Institute (Or Jonah Magnus) was the "Architect" of their universe in a way. The Eye was the leading Fear, the Archivist was the conduit for realizing the Fear in the TMA universe.

In TMAGP, Lena may be playing this role (or grooming Gwen to play some version of this role) as the Web rather than the Eye. Lena is the one giving assignments and connecting all the Externals, and she seems to be the only authority over the OIAR.

Unlike Jon, who was curious and wanted to know more (the desire to know is what compelled him, the thing that feeds the Eye) Gwen wanted more power, then quickly learned that she actually did NOT want to know more... and yet, she hasn't stopped doing the job. She's doing it despite her own fear—as though she were being manipulated, forced, or puppeted. She's being compelled by an outside—or EXTERNAL—force (Lena).

So who are the Externals?

Manifestations, or Avatars, of some force(s) that are being fed just enough fear through the missions Lena assigns.

Where is Lena getting the assignments? We don't know yet.

We know that the Web is the Fear that can see across all the universes. We know that a tape recorder started playing when Sam and Alice were urban-exploring the ruins of the Magnus Institute in Manchester. Did the Web stamp out the competition before it could gain a foothold? Was someone in the OIAR (or someone to be a worker there in the future, depending on if the OIAR was founded at this time) responsible for the fire at the Magnus Institute?

Now, to the dead bodies in episodes 15 and 18.

We know that each of them was telling the story of their death—deaths that seemed to happen under impossible circumstances or in impossible places. The way they described their deaths was very poetic or lyrical, written in the same style as the Statements Jon delivers in the Domains during the Eyepocalypse.

The bodies were giving Statements about their deaths.

And as a fun, little aside.

What does the Georgie of this universe fear? Being spied on, or SEEN. The very thing that Georgie of the TMA universe was immune to: being seen or perceived by the fears. We don't know yet if this Georgie is incapable of feeling fear, but what we saw in episode 18 suggests that she does.

Final thought: Where does Celia go when she's sleeping, and who is puppeting her?

This post resulted from a very frantic, red-string conversation with someone close to me.

[anthroposeen]

tmagp 22 relisten notes

tmagp 22 spoilers below the cut! proceed with caution! this is a longer one!

scene:

this is a continuation of the night of episode 20 and 21, judged by gwen and lena's conversation and sam's confrontation of alice

celia:

- she repeatedly throws hooks at sam to get him more interested in the magnus institute, the opposite of alice's approach to this. rather than encouraging ignorance, celia pushes sam towards curiosity.

- "i might have come across some important names ... jonathan sims and martin blackwood." girl you literally met them! aside from the obvious implications (that celia is from the TMA universe and is referring to the people she met in that dimension) she could also be referring to the tmagp-verse jon and martin. so far, we dont know anything about them, so they coukd have been involved with the institute (though this may be unlikely, considering their ages would be different to that of tma)

sam:

- he noticed that someone edited his caseload, and confronts alice about it

- "youre trying to control me, again" -> interesting because it gives us insight to their past relationship, and why they might have broken up

- "im done trying to placate a jealous ex" sam seems to be interpreting alice's actions as purely made out of controlling and jealousy. from his perspective, she cant get over him, and has been disrupting his work to regain a place in his life.

- sam is a person whos been heavily controlled in his past, we know that his parents shaped his education and career paths and we can infer that his relationship w alice ended poorly bc of her controlling behaviors. it makes sense that hes not willing to sacrifice freedom once he has it

- "im in. all the way.", this is the first time since the series started that sam has thrown himself fully into this investigation. every other time he was confronted with it, he would claim to be moving on or uninterested. but now, hes accepting that hes involved with it.

alice:

- she admits to sam that she edited his caseload, and that she believes the computer is intentionally giving him cases related to the magnus institute

- she says that shes stuck around the OIAR because its easy money if you can ignore the bad qualities, and she enjoys having the seniority. shes been the only steady employee for a long time, and has the most experience, so she has a place of value in this job and she enjoys that trust and authority. she thought that by training sam, she could teach him how to ignore the creepy stuff like her, and she would be less alone

- she also comes off as upset that sam is choosing to continue his investigation with celia, both ignoring alice's advice and choosing celia over her

lena:

- she appears upset that gwen ran away from both ink5oul and [error]. she refers to [error] as "the watching figure", but thats based on gwen's description of the entity. i dont think lena actually knows about the entity (after all, its very new to the scene), she was just using gwen's description as its title for now

- "you didnt get any contact details from them?" this referring to [error], not ink5oul, further showing that lena isn't familiar with them

- gwen's behavior has convinced lena that she cant be trusted to interact with the externals and keep the situation calm. so far, she's been prone to instigating more conflict with them and has now actually harmed a civilian in the process (the man that ink5oul ripped apart).

- she claims that she doesnt want gwen to die, but her death would be simpler to manage than a dead bystander and 2 "uncontrolled" externals. here, she refers to both ink5oul and [error] as externals, despite them not working for the OIAR. this might be the tmagp-verse equivalent of avatars. she also puts emphasis on them being uncontrolled, implying that under the management of the OIAR, externals exhibit different behaviors, or are less likely to be disruptive. (im betting that externals without management are more likely to tip the balance of things)

- she doesnt seem concerned about gwen's blackmail, so either gwen doesnt have that evidence anymore, or lena doesnt think that gwen will go through with her threat

- she removes gwen from her duties as externals liaison, but allows her to still have the title, but also offere her the opportunity to quit. this is the first time quitting is brought up in this episode, still under the guise that it is possible, yet gwen denies the offer.

- references a "ministerial visit", so we'll finally be meeting lena's boss, potentially the man who colin would mention (the man who wants the OIAR to have a functional app, and colin suspects him of also supervising them)

- lena is married! (to me)

gwen:

- "i see what you're doing. you wont get rid of me that easily." she seems dead set on holding on to this position despite hating it and continuously complaining about it. i dont think she cares about the work that they do, shes moreso focused on climbing the ranks to earn respect, and not having respect from the externals or lena is deeply upsetting her

- instead of fighting harder to keep her role, gwen accepts her demotion (though she seems upset about it) and goes so far as to almost be polite to lena, "of course, mrs. kelley" after this interaction it feels like gwen might be intimidated by lena

incident:

narrated by augustus at sam's terminal

- letter from dr. berger detailing the results and descriptions of his recent experiments with the human mind and consciousness

- he was experimenting on a man with a skull deformity, which allowed him to measure pressure, cognition, and electricity shifts within the brain. he was inserting wires directly into the man's skull to take measurements

- after feedback from a fellow dr, he switched to using silver wires in the subject's skull. he measured the electrical output of the subject and received encouraging results.

- dr. berger read on the concept of the hemispherical bridge and the center of self, a collection of fibres near the middle of the grain, which can separate the left and right sphere and create differing consciousness within one body

- he inserted the silver wires directly into the subject's brain, positioned to find the hemispherical bridge.

- the subject was asked questions about himself, such as who he was and what he wants. this disrupted the normal electrical readings, though the subject seemed undisturbed.

- dr. berger experiences a dream where below him is a deep ocean full of "dark secrets", where above him flew radio signals that were "unknowable". he laments that these two things will never meet, emphasizing a separation and balance in their natures

- the dr created a new device to read the electrical signals from the subject's brain, which resulted in the telegraph mechanism clicking. each time he asked a question, the clicking would increase, though his verbal answers didn't change.

- while he was playing with the telegraph waiting for the rest of the equipment to be set up, he started asking the questions again. this time, there was a pause of silence before the clicking began again. the clicking responses increased in intensity

- his wife and assistant, ursula, dropped equipment and looked scared, asking if he could hear 'the sound'

- after this, the subject began to seize and scream in agony as the telegraph increased in intensity. the moment the subject died, the telegraph stopped

- upon reviewing the tapes and records of his experiment, discovering the ominous answers of the subjects split consciousness

- upon asking what the subject wants, it says "help, need, help out, we out" and as this response continues, augustus's narration rises in intensity.

glitches/lies:

- "its probably the horrendous porn you've been downloading." - alice, lying to sam about why his computer must be messed up

- "i can look after myself." -sam

extra comments:

- the biggest takeaway from this episode for me, is that jmj are likely conscious inside of the computer system, and are experiencing this consciousness in a disjointed and painful way. they seem to be speaking to the OIAR employees and audience with the answers to dr. berger's questions, pleading to be helped and let out.

- this statement also goes to support a small theory im working on, that most of the incidents we've heard pertain to balance and separation of self. excepting the incidents that resemble tma statements or provide character information, many of the cases we've heard revolve around forces finding balance or there being a separation of forces at play. i think this will tie in to the grand ritual that the magnus institute attempted, and how the ties to alchemy will be expressed, since finding balance seems to be the center of many operations within the tmagp universe.

- i fear that im biased, since ive kinda disliked celia from the beginning (and i do mean the very beginning, i never liked lynne hammond) but i feel like she's intentionally dragging sam into the investigation without considering if thats beneficial for him. and i dont trust her motives. i dont think this makes her evil or an unsympathetic character- shes been put into a very complicated situation where there likely isnt a simple good solution. but i dont trust her to be involving sam for any 'good' reasons, especially since we know shes hiding information from both him and the audience (im not referring to her being from a differebt universe, i mean that she knows more about the institute and alchemy than shes letting on).

- i think that the ministerial visit that lena references will be the major event in the season finale. it would make sense for there to be an incident during the visit that results in some sort of conflict (im betting that it will involve either colin interfering with the computers, an external that has poor relations with the OIAR (ink5oul, [error]), or gwen's blackmail coming to fruition)

- i also think that we may see/meet tmagp-verse jon and martin before the season ends (assuming they're alive), this would normally feel rushed, but this series has been decently fast paced in terms of revealing leads, so we may be getting a tease for that