#introducing himself as janus.
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blackoutbugza · 7 months ago
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quick! show me your design for one of the sides as kids!
i’ll go first :)
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nb-octopus-writes · 4 months ago
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once you're in the hive, the other bees assume you're supposed to be there
[Masterpost]
Summary:
Virgil accidentally gets absorbed by his best friend's brother's polycule.
In his defense, they keep feeding him every time they see him, and Patton's cooking is really good.
Chapter 1: Halloween Party
Wordcount: 1.9K
~
There are a lot of people Virgil doesn't know at this party. Remus is here, somewhere, and Virgil needs to find him again before the party ends, because Remus was his ride and he doesn't want to get left here. Janus is here too though, and Virgil doesn't think Janus would let Remus leave without him, and he's sure Remus wouldn't desert Janus, so he's trying not to worry too much about the fact that he doesn't currently know where Remus is.
But that's it for people Virgil knows, and Remus didn't even bother to introduce him to anyone before fucking off to who knows where, and Virgil’s certainly not going to walk up to a random stranger and introduce himself, so he's currently appreciating the snack table. If he's eating or deliberating on what to eat next, he can't be expected to talk to anybody, right?
“’Scuse me, itsy bitsy,” someone says from behind him, and Virgil turns to see a vaguely familiar man in a dazzling prince costume holding a fresh plate of deviled eggs.
Virgil moves so that the prince dude can set the plate down on a clear spot on the table, and frowns. “I'm taller than you, Princey.”
Prince dude shrugs, plucks one of the eggs up, and takes a large bite. “Lucky you, or we'd've had to ask you to vacate the premises,” he says. “No little spiders allowed, real or fake.”
Which, yeah, now that he's mentioned it, Virgil had noted an extreme lack of spider-themed decorations, which is unusual for Halloween. Usually there'd at least be spiderweb cupcakes, but the cupcakes at this party are mostly cute ghosts.
There's probably a good reason for that, Virgil realizes with a sinking feeling. “Should I change?”
“You got another costume handy, or were you planning on spinning a spider-silk cocoon and metamorphosing into a butterfly?”
Virgil grimaces. “No,” he admits.
Prince Dude considers him. “It's not very realistic,” he says, which is true. Virgil hadn't been going for realism, he'd been going for passable costume I can make on short notice. He's wearing black jeans and a black hoodie, and he'd cut some pool noodles in half and wrapped them in more black cloth and stuck them to his back for the other four legs. It had been a pain to get them to stay in place properly, actually, and he'd ended up sewing their wrappings to the back of his hoodie in order to keep them where he wanted them. He'd been pretty proud of it, given that Remus had dropped “we're going to a costume party at my brother's house” on him like an hour beforehand, but now he's wishing he'd come up with any other idea. He could have put a sheet over his head and been a ghost, or something. Granted, that would have required him to have a sheet that was both white and that he was willing to cut holes in, which he didn't, but still.
Prince Dude continues to quietly scrutinize Virgil, and he wants to squirm under his gaze. Eventually, the guy shrugs and says, “Might be best to ask the scaredy-cat himself. Wait here, I'll be back.” And he saunters off before Virgil can answer.
For lack of anything better to do, Virgil picks up a deviled egg and shoves the whole thing in his mouth. It's really tasty, actually, and now he's wishing he'd taken smaller bites rather than horking it down in one.
Virgil had thought that Princey was just being mean with the “scaredy-cat” thing, but the guy he's talking to now actually is dressed as a calico cat. Prince Dude points back at Virgil, and Mister Calico Cat glances in his direction, then turns back to Princey. Virgil can't hear what they're saying, but he supposes Prince Dude must've asked Calico if Virgil’s costume was too creepy crawly scary.
They talk for way longer than Virgil had expected, and he can't tell if Calico's response was more like “No, he's fine,” or more along the lines of “Yes, that's terrifying, please have him removed immediately from my sight and also my home.”
He occupies himself with another deviled egg. If he's going to get kicked out, he might as well enjoy some more of this tasty food first.
Oh, fuck. Remus.
Remus isn't going to want to leave early just to take Virgil home, and Virgil still doesn't know where he even is! Fuck!
Well, Remus could have warned him not to be a spider, so if Virgil gets kicked out of the party it'll be at least partly Remus's fault. Virgil doesn't know anybody here, but Remus knows at least half these people, and if Calico’s spider aversion is enough that there are no spider-themed decorations in the house on Halloween, that sounds like the kind of thing Remus would know about.
Granted, Remus revels in being gross and annoying, but still! He's not a total dick. He should have told Virgil.
Fucker.
Calico vanishes into the other room, and Prince Dude comes back over to Virgil. He doesn't look like he's about to kick Virgil to the curb, at least. Virgil braces himself anyway.
“Good news!” Princey says with a grin. “Li’l Mister Muffet says you don't look like a creepy crawly death dealer and he doesn't have the urge to remove you with arson!”
Virgil blinks. “...gooood?” he says slowly. He hadn't even considered kill it with fire being a potential response to his costume. That would have been worse than just getting kicked out of the party, actually.
“Honestly you're much more Doc Ock in silhouette, Spider-Man,” Princey continues. “That helps a lot.”
Virgil glances back at where Prince Dude and Calico had been chatting. “So he didn't leave the room because he can't stand the sight of me?” he asks anyway.
“Nah, he wanted to make another plate of horse devours,” Princey says, reaching past Virgil to grab a cupcake off the table. This one has a little frosting bat.
“A plate of what?” Virgil says, because surely he didn't hear that right.
“Little snacks,” Prince Dude clarifies instead of repeating himself. “Our fridge is crammed with delicious bits and bobs. It's been so hard to resist the temptation to eat them before the party.” He bites appreciatively into his cupcake, then adds with his mouth full, “You'd think he wouldn't notice what with how much he made, but nooo, sneak one chocolate covered cherry before party time and it's a lengthy scolding for you!” Princey sighs dramatically, then cheerfully devours the rest of his cupcake.
“...hors d'oeuvres?” Virgil says hesitantly.
“Yeah, a couple ordervs of deviled eggs, cheese and crackers, and those scrumptious little pinwheel things,” Princey says. Virgil’s not sure if Princey actually doesn't know how hors d'oeuvres is pronounced, or if he's messing with him, but then Princey gives him a mischievous grin that one, confirms that yes, Princey does know what he's doing, and two, is so familiar that it freezes Virgil in place as the pieces click together in his brain.
The lack of a mustache makes Prince Dude's face look different, and so does the way he did his makeup, and he carries himself differently, but it's undeniable all the same: Virgil knows that grin.
This is Remus's twin brother.
Now that he's connected the dots (you haven't connected shit) the family resemblance is clear even to Virgil’s honestly rather faceblind eyes.
This is Remus's brother, and it's his house they're partying at.
… Virgil doesn't remember the guy's name.
Fuck, he should've made sure he at least knew who the party hosts were, especially the one related to his mischief goblin of a best friend.
Well he can't exactly ask now, can he?
“Also like, five types of cupcakes,” Princey continues, oblivious to Virgil’s inner turmoil. “Seriously, have you tried the cupcakes? Chef Boiardelightful made multiple separate batches of different flavors, from scratch. And they're all delicious!”
Virgil smirks. “And did you try to snitch them before the party too?”
Princey gasps theatrically, pressing a hand to his chest. “How could you accuse me of such a thing!?” he protests with exactly as much dramatic emotion as Virgil would expect from Remus's twin. “For your information, I did not! I merely sampled a portion of the batter left on the spatula after the cupcakes had gone into the oven. Also some of the frosting.”
“He means that he licked the bowls clean,” says a new voice, and Virgil does not jump out of his skin, thank you very much. And even if he did jolt a little, it's nothing to the startled squawk Princey emits.
Calico's back, holding a platter of little finger sandwiches on toothpicks. He offers them up to Virgil, who takes one. “Thanks.”
“No worries, kiddo!” Calico says cheerfully, and puts the rest of the platter down on the snack table. Princey plucks up two sandwiches by their toothpicks, and gets a stern look in response. “Make sure to leave some for the guests,” Calico scolds.
“My delightful and beloved Patissier,” Princey says, cupping Calico's face gently with his free hand. “I assure you that each of our guests could have a heaping plateful of food and we would still have leftovers until next Tuesday. No-one will be going home hungry.”
It really is an impressive spread. Everything Virgil’s tried has been really good. Remus really could have played up the ‘free food’ angle more when trying to convince Virgil to come. If he'd known the food would be this good, then overriding his usual party-related reservations—it's gonna be loud, there will be a lot of people, I don't know anybody, etc—would have been a lot easier. Then again, Virgil probably wouldn't have believed him. He'd mostly been expecting pizza and cheap beer, honestly, not– not homemade delicacies.
The tiny sandwich Calico gave him is lightly toasted, with some kind of sliced-meat-and-cream-cheese filling, and a little green leafy garnish on top. It definitely looks much fancier than most things Virgil eats, and he can understand why Calico doesn't want Princey to eat them all. That probably took a decent amount of effort. He almost feels bad eating it himself, except that Calico had offered it to him specifically, and it would probably be more rude at this point to not eat it.
“Are you sure my costume is okay?” Virgil asks, interrupting the minor squabble Princey and Calico had fallen into.
“Oh, yes, you're fine,” Calico assures him. “Trust me, if you were pinging my brain as an actual spider I wouldn't be in the room right now, let alone standing next to you.”
“Really, cause most cats I know would eat a spider soon as look at it,” Virgil quips, and is rewarded with Calico laughing.
“That wouldn't be very good host-ly of me, now would it?” he says. “I would never eat a guest!”
“Not unless they're a reptile with scallions,” Princey teases, and Calico flushes.
“Hey!” he protests, swatting Princey's shoulder with one hand and trying to cover his extremely red face with the other. Virgil wonders what the reference was, exactly, but doesn't think it's his place to ask. It seems rather personal, from how hard Calico is blushing.
…maybe he'll ask Remus later if he knows what the story there is.
~~~~
Chapter 2: The Morning After
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bridenore · 1 month ago
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HD fic recs : Curses (part 1)
Here are a few recs dealing heavily with curses. This is part one of three and focuses on shorter fics (up to 30k). Listed in alphabetical order, as always.
Any Kind of Life by jeni_andtheafterthought [7k]
Despite being caught on opposite sides of a war, Harry and Draco find love. They promise to come back to each other once the war is over. However, no one is unchanged by war, and there are some things you can’t come back from. Draco was told to let Harry go, to leave his love behind and move on. He is told that Harry has changed. Draco doesn’t care how different Harry has become. A promise is a promise.
Close To Ever After by  oldenuf2nb / @dianacopland [15k]
When Harry Potter finds he’s been cursed, he withdraws from the world and prepares to die. But when have things ever gone the way Harry Potter planned?
Coming to Terms  by RurouniHime [16k]
Of all the lives in all the world, Harry had to own this one.
The Grotto by Libby Drew / Sansa / erin myecourt [23k]
Three years after Draco’s war crimes trial, the Wizengamot finally decides on his community sentence: help rebuild a village that was destroyed in the war. It sounds simple enough. Until Draco begins to unravel the mystery behind the assignment. 
If It Takes All Night by @tackytigerfic [10k]
It’s not the first time Harry’s been the victim of a botched curse (that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t like crowds), but he feels bad that Malfoy had to get caught up in it too. So they’re bonded. That’s ok, they just have to make sure to be touching at all time. No problem. Because Malfoy smells so nice, and has such lovely shiny hair, and his skin is so very warm. But this isn’t going to be a problem for their friendship at all. Is it, Harry?
In Pursuit of Lost Marbles by Theartfulldodger [22k]
Every night after work, Healer Malfoy follows the same routine, beginning with a familiar flight of stairs that leads to the Janus Thickey Ward at St. Mungo’s. With an air of professionalism, he introduces himself to Harry, his husband of seven years, when a memory curse makes Harry look at him like a stranger. He tries not to flinch when Harry calls him sir, but he smiles when bits of the old Harry emerge. Eventually, Draco leads Harry to the Pensieve where he shows him pieces of the life they’ve built together, what Harry will come home to, one day, when this is all over. Then, Draco waits. He waits, and he hopes.
Landslide by Libby Drew / Sansa / erin myecourt [ 24k]
Harry Potter disappears, taking a sick Teddy Lupin with him. While everyone searches for their missing hero, Draco’s life continues as it always has. Rumors of curses and kidnapping don’t interest him. As Hogwarts’ guardian, he has only one concern: the strange, miraculous events occurring on the cliffs outside the castle walls.
The Lip-Lock Jinx  by cassisluna [20k]
It’s a jinx that renders the victim mute, unless he/she serves the purpose of the jinx and kisses the person that they desire. It’s just Harry’s luck that he’s in love with Draco.
Lubido Mendax by @malenkayacherepakha [17k]
When Harry is hit by an old and alarming sex curse while on a job with Malfoy, he’s faced with an agonising decision. But it turns out that curing the curse was easy compared to everything that came next.
Normal Is the Watchword by lamerezouille [29k]
This story is about love and family and yes, maybe it’s not supposed to be about Jamie exactly, but Draco and Harry are very stubborn and Jamie’s just a kid, you can’t expect him to completely extract himself from a story he’s actually living, right?
Out of Sight, Out of Mind by Winterwolke [7k]
“Grey eyes snap up to him, but they’re not as sharp and calculating as Harry remembers. There’s pain there, making them dull and glazed over. It makes him ache in return, somewhere in a corner of his heart that he wants to rip out immediately after he registers it. It feels wrong to have this reaction to Draco Malfoy, but Harry can’t help it. The house is seriously messing with his mind.” Trapped inside a strange house with no memories of his life past eighth year, Harry struggles with what he doesn’t remember and the only person he can find: Draco Malfoy.
Something Always (Brings Me Back To You) by @kedavranox [9k]
The Centre for Magical Theory and Complex Spell Classifications keeps fucking with Harry’s dig sites, and he’s pretty sure Malfoy has ulterior motives.
A Tail as Old as Time by pervyunitwins [18k]
A tale as old as time. Only not really because Harry’s a werewolf who has run away from home and Draco is trapped in the manor and talks to inanimate objects. But somehow it works. 
Talk to Me by Saras_Girl [15k]
When the usual channels of communication are shut down, the most surprising people can find a way in. A strange little love story.
That which hurts (and is desired) by @shealwaysreads / onereader [19k]
Draco was lying still, and pale, on a bed in a private room in St Mungo’s. The sheets were white, clean, enchanted against stains, vanishing the blood that kept spilling out of him. He hadn’t moved in two days. Not a twitch of his elegant fingers. Not a blink of his fierce eyes. Harry couldn’t even see the faint flutter of his pulse in his throat from where he stood at the foot of the bed, helpless, impotent, furious. There is nothing Harry wouldn’t do for the people he cares about. As it turns out, that might bring him everything he’s ever wanted.
Truffles, Noble Lord of the Sky by megyal [10k]
Fuck fairies; and Longbottom, too.
I hope you enjoy these stories as much as I did!
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specialagentartemis · 2 years ago
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Something always fascinating to me is the "character who thinks they're in a different genre" phenomenon. The theme of the story you are telling determines what the right and wrong actions to take are; but the characters, reacting in-universe to the situation, don't know what story they're in, and the exact same responses can be what saves you or damns you depending on what kind of story the author is telling and what the story's message is about what life is like.
In Wolf 359, Warren Kepler approaches the mysterious and powerful aliens with threats; he kills their liaison and tries to position himself as a powerful opponent. However, he's shown to be wrong and making things worse: his preemptive aggression is unwarranted and unhelpful and bites him in the ass. The aliens want to communicate and understand humanity and share our music. It's Doug Eiffel, the pacifistic (and kind of scaredy-cat) communications officer who loves to talk and share pop culture, who talks to them and understands that the aliens are scary not because they want to kill us but because they don't understand the concepts of individuals and death. Talking to them, communicating with them, understanding where they're coming from and and bringing them to understand a human point of view, is what succeeds. Openness rather than suspicion, trust rather than aggression. Kepler thinks he's a dramatic space marine protecting the Earth from the alien threat by showing them humans are tough and can take them, but that's not the kind of story this is.
Conversely, in Janus Descending, Chel is in awe of the strange and beautiful alien world around her. She wants to touch it, understand it, get up close to it. When she sees a crystal alien dog, she wants to befriend it, despite Peter's warning. But when she gets close to it, extending her arm in greeting, it attacks her and drags her down into the cave to try to eat her. This sets the inevitable tragedy in motion. Suspicion is warranted; trust will get you killed. Because this is a sci-fi horror, with a major running thematic reading about how racism and sexism will destroy your brain and your society, and how the people who think they're too smart to be prejudiced don't see their own prejudice and will end up ruining the lives of the people they still don't fully see as equals, this kind of trust that Chel shows this strange alien is tragic. However it is also a horror story where there are very real hibernating space snakes ready to wake up and eat the fresh meat that has landed on their planet, and by being too trusting Chel has accidentally introduced herself to one.
Kepler, suspicious and ready to shoot any alien he doesn't understand, would likely have survived Janus Descending; Chel, with her enthusiasm for learning about and meeting aliens, would have been a wonderful and helpful member of the Wolf 359 crew.
In a similar manner, in Alien, Ellen Ripley yells to the rest of her crew not to bring the attacked crewmember with the alien on his face back on the ship and into the medical bay, you don't know what contamination that thing might have; she's ignored. She tells them not to let the crewmember out of quarantine even though he seems fine; she's ignored again. Ripley is the one person protesting this isn't safe, we don't know what's going on, and she is consistently ignored, until an alien bursts out of her crewmate's chest and then eats everyone and Ripley is proven to be right and also the only survivor. (And it turns out that the science officer consistently overriding her protests was an android sent by the company that contracted them, and said android was given orders to bring the alien back so the company could study it and do weapons development with it, try not to let the crew find out about it, and kill them if he had to in order to do so!)
Ripley's paranoia and mistrust of the situation was correct, because Alien is a space horror and the theme is in space no one can hear you scream (also corporations consider you expendable).
Conversely, in All Systems Red, we have a damaged and almost-combat-overridden Murderbot being brought back into the PreservationAux hab medical bay after being attacked by other SecUnits. Gurathin becomes the one person protesting this isn't safe, we don't know what's going on, he doesn't want to let Murderbot out because it's hacked and probably sabotaging them for the company contracted their security and sent it with them. Gurathin thinks he is the Ellen Ripley here! He is trying to warn his teammates not to make a dangerous mistake that will get everyone killed!
However, All Systems Red is a very different story than Alien, and Murderbot is neither a traitor on behalf of the company to sabotage them and steal alien remnants for weapons development, nor a threat to the humans - it's a friend, it's a good person, and it wants to help them against both companies willing to screw them over. Trusting it and helping it is the right thing to do and is what saves their lives. Gurathin is proven to be wrong.
If everyone on the Nostromo crew had listened to Ellen Ripley, they would still be alive (except Kane. RIP Kane), because this is a horror story about being isolated and hunted and going up against this horrifying thing that wants to kill and eat you and just keeps getting stronger. If everyone on the PreservationAux team listened to Gurathin, they would all be dead, because this is a story about friendship and teamwork and trust and overcoming trauma and accepting the personhood of someone very different from you.
Same responses. Different context. And so very different moral conclusions.
Warren Kepler was about how the brash violent over-confident approach to things you don't understand is wrong, and that openness and developing that understanding between people is what's important; Chel was about the tragedy of trust destroying a Black woman who wanted so much to believe in a world that could be kind and beautiful. Ripley was about a woman whose expertise and safety warnings were ignored and brushed aside and everyone who did so died because of it; Gurathin was about how even justified fear shouldn't mean you make someone else a scapegoat and mistrust them because they seem scary.
Sometimes you're in the wrong genre because you need to be, because the author is trying to show how not to react to the situation they set up in order to build the mood and the theme they're trying to convey.
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let-roman-bite-someone · 1 year ago
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it's been a while since i made an analysis here but as anyone else in this fandom, i've been speculating on orange. i know that by now, most people are convinced that orange is anger or something related to that.
however, we need to look at the previous patterns in order to figure out who orange might be. “the dark sides” were all facets of c!thomas that he was unwilling to accept or acknowledge. his anxiety, his ability and capacity for deception and probably the most jarring for him, the violent and/or disgusting thoughts that pop into his head without warning.
despite virgil's arc, anxiety was probably the easiest for thomas to accept. virgil didn't even have to introduce himself; thomas already knew he existed and while he was not happy about that, thomas had already accepted by that point that anxiety was a part of him. janus's existence was a harder pill to swallow and remus's was even harder.
so with all this, orange turning out to be anger (or wrath, rage, whatever you want to call it) would be a little underwhelming. while anger is not an emotion that is always encouraged, it's certainly not that hard to accept. especially compared to having repetitive intrusive thoughts about murdering people.
besides, thomas has already acknowledged his own capacity for anger before.
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here, he refers to logan and roman having short tempers. they've shown this multiple times in the series too. if logan and roman are prone to anger, then it follows that thomas is also prone to anger and that he is aware of it. and regarding the nonchalant way he addressed it, i doubt he's troubled about his temper at all.
since there were only two short episodes before the introduction of virgil, we don't have enough context as to whether thomas was aware of his anxiety or how accepting he was of it. for janus and remus however, we have several instances of thomas either being in denial or being completely unaware of their existence.
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regarding the concept of lying, thomas chose not to lie to people to the best of his ability. regarding intrusive thoughts, while there's no instances of thomas straight-up refusing to feed into them, he was a lot more "clean" before remus came along. he didn't swear as much and when he did, usually censored the swears (probably a conscious decision from thomas & co. but i think it had a canon reason too) and using more technical terms for sexual activities.
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anyway, all of this is just a complicated way to get to the point, so i won't bore you any longer. my point is that orange would have to be something bigger, something more terrifying and that thomas would likely be in denial about.
one thing thomas has constantly been shown to fear is losing his friends and loved ones. this has surprisingly been a consistent theme from the early stages of the series.
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a lot of the episodes like Making Some Changes, Can Lying Be Good and the SvS duology were centered around thomas's fear of losing his friends. friendship is very important to thomas and different situations in his life often feeds into the fear of being left behind.
now what is a common theme in all the scenes that orange has been hinted at?
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the feeling of being ignored or belittled. logan gets mad at roman because roman mocks his attempts at trying to communicate honestly. SvS Redux has thomas feeling irritated and upset that lee and mary lee barely paid attention to him during the wedding. the intrusive thoughts asides video, of course, has both thomas and logan getting angry over being ignored.
so, with all this, i conclude that orange is desperation (n; a state of despair, typically one which results in rash or extreme behaviour). a need for validation, a need for attention and affection. thomas, at this point, is especially disturbed by a lot of things going on in his life. but a recurring theme throughout the show, especially after the introduction of janus and remus, is thomas's fear of driving away his friends. he is overly judgmental of each of his actions, worried that they may lead to him being lonely and left behind.
and again, in WTIT, thomas is also desperate to be noticed by nico. he fears dying alone but at the same time, he struggles to reach out to people. still, he makes the first move by texting nico but the fact that nico doesn't reply makes thomas more and more fearful of ending up alone. he is desperate for love and support, he is desperate for validation; but he needs to focus on himself and fix his own issues, if he wants to maintain a healthy relationship with other people.
like all the other sides, i think that orange is also only trying to help thomas. he's trying to get thomas to come to terms with the fact that nothing is stagnant. most things in life are temporary and the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to let go of any worries weighing you down. thomas just needs to face that fact and focus on living in the moment, instead of worrying about what could be. he also needs to have a little trust in himself and know that he's trying his best to be a good person.
and logan is the right person to target for this. because first off, logan himself is suffering from the desperate need for validation, he is visibly struggling to get to thomas. secondly, a sign of deteriorating mental health is when logic becomes clouded due to emotions and this affects a person's basic functioning, such as decision making, problem solving and if gone too far, even everyday activities. the one time logan temporarily left the group, we saw how much of a chaos the others were. i believe orange thinks that this is the only way to make thomas understand how dire the situation is.
so yeah, that's just my take on this whole orange deal. i could be completely wrong but it's still fun analyzing these things.
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esmereldapearl · 4 months ago
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Headcannon’s I have;
- Roman and Patton met in middle school
- Roman and Virgil, without realizing, were best friends when they were kids
- Logan and Roman are damage control (sorta)
“Hey I just let loose several snakes in the house” (Remus)
“what.” (Roman and Logan)
- Nobody really is allowed to go into Roman’s room, unless it’s Virgil since they play games together and seem like good friends. Remus breaks in against Roman’s request, for really, no reason at all other than to annoy Roman
- Virgil has one green eye and one brown eye
- Logan and Virgil’s rooms are very dark because they have blackout curtains, however Roman and Patton have lighter curtains that let light in
- Logan listens to history podcasts when he sleeps
- Roman is like, super interested or obsessed with Greek Mythology and Virgil introduced him to the grimm/original fairy tales
- Roman and Virgil during get togethers are the two people that when like politics or something come up they immediately quickly look at eachother for a second as like a “oh my god what.” or “no way.” moment
- They all have a minecraft world together and Remus isn’t allowed in since he would explode everyone else’s builds, Janus was banned after he started stealing Virgil’s items and vandalizing Roman’s area— a whole courtroom scenario took place, Logan taking Roman and Virgil as his clients, Janus representing himself, Patton being in the crowd, and Orange being the judge (Remus can’t be trusted)
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dndeceit · 2 months ago
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I don't usually do a lot of analysis or theorizing, but I did have half of this written out after some thought moved me to do so a while back. And I saw a post today touching on some of the same things, so I thought I'd slap at least a half-assed completion of my thoughts and send it out into the world just to get it out of my drafts.
I always feel baffled by the interpretation of Virgil and Janus being "former villains" or having had a redemption arc, because I feel like there's a crucial point that has been missed.
The overall theme of the series is about accepting that people are made up of a bunch of messy and often contradictory impulses that nonetheless all serve a purpose. Overall, it's about finding a balance in our lives to settle these conflicts. Virgil and Janus were never villains, they were vilified and that's different. The "Dark Sides" arc is about understanding that treating these impulses as wholly "good" or "bad" is typically harmful.
Virgil's arc through the early series was, in part, about him learning to work with the other sides, but it's as much (or more) about the other sides learning to work with him. Anxiety doesn't just go away when you ignore it, you have to find methods of addressing it instead that are right for you. The reason Virgil and Roman butt heads so frequently is because Thomas's anxiety is a barrier to his self expression and his pursuit of endeavors (creative and interpersonal) that require him to take risks. In Accepting Anxiety, Roman came to understand how the awareness of those risks are essential for making it possible to pursue them effectively, and a part of what gives the achievement of them meaning.
In the same video he is introduced, it is explicitly stated that Remus isn't the real problem. The thoughts he represents are distracting and gross and unpleasant, but Patton and Virgil's defensiveness against the thoughts is what make them distressing. It's the moralization of them, the fear that they must reflect on Thomas in some way, that is hurting him. It's why one of the first things that Remus says (one of the few constructive things Remus has to say) in the episode is that repression is bad. And I imagine that, eventually, his arc as a side is going to touch on the exploration and expression of dark themes and thoughts as a source of catharsis, because one of his primary complaints is Thomas's insistence on keeping his influence out of his art.
If there's a redemption arc going on in SvSR, it's Patton's. Janus's acceptance into the group wasn't won by him changing. It was made by proving that he, by representing Thomas's most self-serving impulses, was necessary, and by extension proving that Patton's black and white thinking on the subject of selfishness and self sacrifice was hurting Thomas. (A life lived solely for the good of others isn't much of a life, you have to live some of it for yourself.)
My theory is that the remaining arc, for Orange, is going to be framed as a conflict between himself and Logan for very similar reasons. Logan's rejection of emotions (which he clearly has) are setting up against a character who likely represents either certain emotions which are viewed as disruptive (anger, or similar) or the consequences of repressing them (resentment).
Like Anxiety, feelings of anger or frustration don't go away by pretending they aren't there. If they aren't addressed, they fester. And just as with Anxiety, to process them in a healthy way you need to find a way to work with them.
Anger pops up in a lot of situations where it can feel irrational, even as we're feeling it. Ultimately, Logan can't "logic" Thomas's way out of feeling anything. However, leaning into Remus's area of his imagination in his creative life could provide an outlet for those feelings and provide catharsis that can help him work through them. (And, inevitably, Logan's "redemption" would likely relate to the understanding that some feelings have to be felt in order to be processed, however illogical or counterproductive feeling them may seem.)
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part-time-zombie · 8 months ago
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Has anyone else noticed that virgil has been awfully mean to patton in these recent videos?
After remus was introduced virgil has been noticeably more inclined to badmouth and sass patton, even in front of the others.
At first I thought he was just a little more stressed out because of the now regular presence of the dark sides, but the remarks he's been making at patton sounds much more deliberate, targeted and intentional, not like some harmlessly sarcastic quip.
This change in behavior started getting noticeable in ATHD, when theyre debating on if a distraction is a good way to handle Thomas's dilemma. Virgil makes a comment here implying patton is capable of and responsible for thomas feeling bad, maybe not in this particular scenario but definitely on other occasions.
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This is fairly understandable, seeing as patton himself pointed out that he is at the core of Thomas's feelings, the good and the bad, but I think this exchange suggests more than just that. It sounds like virgil is saying that pattons Actions are at fault, not his role.
We get even more insight in the WTIT end card, where patton tells the others to be supportive of thomas and virgil responds like this:
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Now that is a much more direct comment, blaming patton for telling thomas what he can and can't do.
I remembered this scene in DWIT, when logan revealed the cause of remus's intimidating effect. He admitted vrigil was part of the problem, but also addressed pattons involvement in the situation.
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Patton is too strict on thomas, trying to control what and how he thinks, acts, and feels. But how does this tie in with virgil?
Virgil wouldn't think to be afraid of remus or even to resent janus unless he felt they were a detriment to thomas. I'm sure he has personal history with the dark sides thar complicates/exacerbates the matter, but being a (former) dark side himself, he shouldn't feel so strongly compelled to defend thomas from them unless he was convinced that they were bad for him.
Patton believed the dark sides were evil, and his insistence on that belief pushed virgil to follow his ideals. Comparing virgils behavior at the start of the series to now, I'd assume he and the others would have been friends, or at least friendly to each other. But when virgil joined the light side, he also joined their mentality.
Virgil believed patton when he said the dark sides, his former friends, were bad, and acted to defend Thomas from them. Now that it's revealed that patton is not only setting an unreasonably high standard for thomas, but that he also is second-guessing himself and his views on "good" and "bad", virgil is resentful of him. He's angry that he let himself believe that the dark sides, and himself by association, is bad, especially when the person who convinced him of this is proven to be wrong about it.
This is virgil, angry about vilifying himself and others at the hand of someone who only thought he was a hero.
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a-small-batch-of-dragons · 25 days ago
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Loved and Unloved
Considering the large amount of content of unsymp patton that exists in comparison to any other side currently (most often depicting him as an anti-lgbtq+ Christian dad with control issues), feels like some real meaty angst potential to explore for Patton. He has been way more open to change and hiding when he isn’t doing okay, so maybe he tries actively stripping the aspects of himself these extreme characterizations originate from only for it to go wrong? Maybe Virgil’s snappiness as of the last few episodes or Roman’s unease ends up fueling it in someway? No pressure if you don't wanna write Patton angst, just thought the concept was interesting. – ax3-e0ns
Read on Ao3
Warnings: self-doubt, self-esteem issues
Pairings: none!
Word Count: 3172
Everybody has to be open to change, so it's not fair of him to be so upset by it. He just needs to get over himself first.
Everybody has to be open to change, so it's not fair of him to be so upset by it.
Come on, he'd be the most unreasonable person in the world if he constantly talked about how good it was to keep an open mind, try new things, and then shirked away from actually doing any of the hard work that came with that, wouldn't he? It wouldn't be right! So no, Patton isn't going to pretend that he's the exception to his rules, not like this, so he's going to change. That's how things work, that's how things need to be done.
He just…needs to get over himself first.
Figuring out just how badly he'd been messing everything up—well, okay, no, he's going to go back a little bit first.
The wedding had been hard on everybody, which was something he'd never expected. It had been such an honor to be asked to be there by Lee and Mary Lee, and then to have everything crash and burn the way it did…it had been so disappointing. Not just because Thomas had clearly been so miserable, but because it wasn't ever supposed to be like that. Weddings were supposed to be joyous affairs, all about celebrating two people deciding to tie their lives together, and how could they be there and be so upset about it? Patton hadn't wanted to admit it when Roman first passed the sentence, but ever since Deceit—Janus had pointed out how rough it would be on poor Thomas if he was there—or rather, since he'd given up the chance for a callback to be there, it was…difficult.
Then there's the whole matter of Patton himself. He's not sure when he really noticed how much he was causing all the problems, but once he did, it was sort of impossible not to notice anymore.
Maybe it was in that first meeting where they introduced Janus, back when he'd taken Patton's face and used it to coerce Roman into helping him with his schemes. Maybe it was when Roman passed the sentence and everyone looked at Patton like he was the one who did that too. Or maybe it was when Remus showed up and Logan told everyone that it was Virgil's fault and Patton's fault that Thomas had slept so badly last night.
Whenever it was, it made it clear that Patton…wasn't doing the best he could do when it came to actually being there for everybody else. And that was bad, because Patton was supposed to be there for everyone! Not just because he was at the center of a lot of Thomas's feelings, not just because he was Morality, but because those are his kiddos. Those are the people he cares about the most in the entire world, and if he can't even be there for them in the way that he should be, how could he pretend to be there for everyone else?
So, he could change. He had to change. He needed to change. And the best way to do that was to figure out what parts of himself were bad and needed to go.
As always, the fans were…helpful? Maybe? Is that the right word? He remembers hearing Logan and Roman talking about how fan communities were interesting beasts—he's pretty sure those were Roman's words, not Logan's—especially when it came to interpreting characters. There were always going to be those that acted in bad faith and just saw the parts that they wanted to see, and there were always going to be those that just decided to die on the hill of their favorites and act as though they'd never done anything wrong, ever. But the vast majority of the fanbase would react similarly to the big events of the series, and so he figured that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to just…see how they were reacting to him lately.
It was an eye-opening experience.
There were a lot of theories going around as to why he'd been so…problematic in the series lately. Everything from him being responsible for Thomas's internalized homophobia to the Split to truly, truly horrible things that he knows are just meant to be alternate universes so the writers can experiment with what they want but to think that there's a part of him that they saw to make the ideas happen…
He'd never been more grateful that the Imagination covers up lies so Janus wouldn't know the truth as to why Thomas was so upset that night, and he'd never been more ashamed of himself for being so cowardly as to run there.
He'd tried to convince himself that it was just that small minority, like Logan and Roman had said, but the thing was…it wasn't. Not really. The amount of content like that for him versus the amount for everybody else was staggering. Even if it was just as small as making him the one that needed to change his mind so everyone could get their happy ending, it was—well, it started to weigh on him. More and more and more with each time he had a look at what the fans were doing, and after a while, well…
Maybe Logan was onto something when he said it was Patton's fault Remus had managed to worm his way so close to Thomas so quickly. He knows, somewhere, that chastising himself for having such a strong reaction to that sort of content isn't going to be productive—quite the opposite, in fact—but he can't stop. What sort of horrible person reacts so badly to being told they need to change?
Well. That's enough of that. He needs to change, so he's going to.
For everyone else's sake.
"Hey, Logan?"
Logan looks up from his notebook to see Virgil and Roman standing in front of him. "Yes?"
"Have you noticed something's up with Patton?"
He frowns. "Not particularly. Is there something the matter?"
Roman sighs, sitting down on the couch. "That's the thing. He won't talk to us—he won't even be in the same room alone with us if he can help it, and I don't know if we did something wrong that he's not telling us about or if there's something going on with him that he's trying to keep a secret."
Logan sighs, closing his notebook and tossing it onto the coffee table to steeple his fingers together. "Well, when did we first notice it?"
"Uh, a couple weeks ago?" Virgil scratches the back of his head. "I tried to ask him how he was doing—you know, since Thomas had that one late night where all of us were really on edge for some reason, just because we didn't really see much of him and then he wasn't talking to us."
"That's right," Roman adds, "and then he wouldn't—he wasn't—I tried to ask him what was going on and he just smiled at me and thanked me for asking."
"Wait, he didn't answer?"
"No! Not really."
"That is bizarre." Logan drums his fingers on his leg. "And we're certain there isn't something obvious we're overlooking? There's not a deadline coming up—well, no, I know for a fact there isn't, not where Thomas is concerned, nor are we near the anniversary of something happening that would make him upset."
"I don't think we did anything either. We've not really had any big fights or blowouts since…" Virgil trails off and he doesn't need to finish the sentence. "And I'm pretty sure it's not really related to that."
"How have we determined that?"
"Well, it's not really how Patton likes to deal with things. He's all about talking things through, remember? Especially when it comes to stuff that doesn't have to do with Thomas." He shudders. "There's only so much reassuring bonding time I can take before I really start to lose my shit."
If they all glance around, half-expecting and half-hoping for Patton to pop out with his signature 'language,' then that's for them to know and them alone.
"I don't know what to do," Roman confesses quietly, "he's been so distant, it's hard to talk to him about anything that isn't food or what we're doing later today."
"I can see if—" Logan doesn't get to finish what he was saying when Remus suddenly appears over the couch and falls squarely on top of Roman— "Remus!"
"Ack! Get off me!"
Remus plants a big, wet kiss on Roman's squawking forehead and rolls onto the coffee table, legs kicked up behind him and hands under his chin. "What're we gossiping about?"
"We aren't gossiping, Remus, we're just talking."
"You're talking about one of us, so spill! I want all the teeth!"
Virgil rolls his eyes and pinches the bridge of his nose. "The expression is 'tea,' Remus, not 'teeth.'"
"But tea is boring. Janny drinks it and acts like he's the most pretentious snake-bastard on the planet. I was the teeth, that sounds much more fun."
"I don't have any teeth to give you," Roman grumbles, "and even if I did, I wouldn't, because that hurt."
"Aww, is Roro getting soft?"
"I'll show you soft—"
"Boys," Janus announces, striding from the shadows as though he's been there the whole time, "let's keep the roughhousing to a minimum for today, shall we? I'm not in the mood to tiptoe around shards of glass right now."
Remus cackles, Roman grumbles, and Virgil tilts his head back as though asking the heavens to give him patience.
"Janus," Logan greets, "have you noticed anything strange about Patton's behavior recently?"
"If by 'strange,' you mean 'worrying patterns that speak to an imminent mental breakdown,' then yes, Logan, I've noticed a few strange things."
That gets everyone to stare at him quite quickly. He raises an eyebrow.
"Oh, come on, certainly you've noticed it as well?"
"We have, that's why we were talking about it before someone decided to appear right on top of Roman."
"I didn't appear right on top of Roro, I appeared above him so I could fall on top of him!"
"Semantics." Logan waves his hand. "Janus, continue."
Janus sighs, glancing around, before beginning to fiddle with the ends of his gloves. "I don't know what started it, but I do know that Patton's been…having a rough time recently. He's been acting as though we're about to pull the rug out from under him the moment he commits some sort of grave offense."
"But why? What did we do?"
"I don't know. That's the part I haven't figured out yet."
"It started that one night—"
"Where he was in the Imagination, yes, I know."
Remus sits up, a look of actual sobriety flickering through the common mania. "Pat-Pat was in the Imagination that night? What was he doing?"
"If I knew, don't you think I would tell you?"
"No."
"Probably not."
"Doesn't really seem that likely."
Janus holds a hand to his chest, the perfect image of a scandalized maiden until Virgil smacks his arm. "Rude."
"So—we think Patton maybe saw something in the Imagination that threw him off? Why wouldn't he tell us, then?"
"He wouldn't be able to get into Remus's side through those big common doors in the hallway, and it's not like he would know if he—"
"Yeah, I'd be able to tell."
"—right, but I don't know what it could be on my side that would make him so upset."
"Maybe we're thinking about this wrong," Logan says suddenly, "maybe Patton being in the Imagination isn't the cause, but the consequence."
"What, you think something happened that made him go into the Imagination?"
"It's possible."
"Like what? What does the Imagination do that would've made it the place he'd go? The rest of us need Princey or Remus to make anything happen in there that isn't, like, summoning a bowl of Butterfingers."
"Maybe he just really wanted some Butterfingers?"
"Nah."
"Lies," Janus says softly.
"Huh?"
"The Imagination covers up lies. It's all lies, really, which means that—"
"That you can't hear what's going on in there," Roman finishes, his eyes widening, "so if Patton went in there on that night, then…"
He doesn't get a chance to finish that thought, because he spots Patton standing at the top of the stairs, his eyes wide and his mouth trembling.
"Wait, Padre, we didn't—"
Patton turns around and bolts.
"Patton," Logan coaxes gently from the other side of the door, "Patton, please, come and talk to us."
Patton shakes his head, even though he knows Logan can't see it, burying himself deeper into the blankets. This has all gone wrong. Everything is wrong. He has no idea when they started realizing how awful he is, but the last thing he wants to do right now is give them any excuse to confirm their suspicions.
"It's getting worse," he hears Janus murmur, "the lies are—they're getting really bad."
"Patton, please." Logan's getting desperate, he can hear it. "Please, just—just let us explain? We're not here to hurt you, we aren't mad, we're just worried, please."
He can't. He can't because as soon as he tells them what's going on, as soon as they make him tell them what's going on, he knows they'll be angry so quickly it'll be like they've always been angry at him. And he can't have them be angry, not right now, not while he's so weak that just the thought of having to be in the same room as them while they're angry with him is enough to make him muffle a sob into his pillows.
He thought he'd been doing well. He hasn't been overhearing, he hasn't bothered Roman about his work or personal projects in ages, he hasn't tried to walk all over Virgil and force him out of his comfort zone, he hasn't even distracted Logan from the important things that he's doing. He'd thought—he thought he was doing better. He thought he was changing in a way that made sense, that was better. He thought—he thought—
It doesn't matter what he thought.
He can hear the voices from behind the door. He doesn't want to try and listen in to hear what they're saying. He doesn't want to hear about how they're trying to figure out—he doesn't even want to think about it. He wants to push all this down and have it never have happened so he can just go out there and figure out what he needs to do to make himself better.
Then there's a very soft pop of someone appearing in his room and he has no idea how that's possible.
"Perks of the job," Remus says quietly, the bed dipping as he sits on the edge, "Intrusive Thoughts and all that. Means I can go places that the others can't sometimes."
Patton goes still. Well, he tries to go still. What he really does is lie there with the hitching sobs making him tremble every few seconds until he can feel the whole mattress shake with how quiet he's trying to be.
"Oh, Pat-Pat," he hears Remus mumble before a hand pats around the top of the blankets to find his head, "what happened?"
"S-sorry."
"Don't be sorry, it's okay. We just want to help."
Patton shakes his head, trying to burrow deeper, but that just lets Remus know exactly where his head is, which means that he gets about two seconds of warning before his blanket huddle is being moved apart piece by piece, layer by layer, until Remus is lifting up the last one and peering inside.
"Hey," he says, voice remarkably soft, "what's going on, Pat-Pat?"
He swallows painfully. Why is his throat so sore?
"You don't have to worry about being coherent or anything like that," Remus says when he doesn't say anything for a long moment, "just…get it out. I'll listen."
And just like that, out it comes. The whole messy, unforgiving story. Remus doesn't say a thing, not until Patton's sobbing and pleading for a forgiveness he's not sure he deserves, not until the door starts to bang again with how many lies Janus can hear and how Remus was supposed to make it better, not worse, and then Remus is saying his name softly and tenderly and there are hands cupping his cheeks and—
"C'mere," Remus whispers, hauling him up out of the blankets and into his arms, "there, here, here we go…it's okay, Pat-Pat, it's gonna be okay. You're okay. You're gonna be okay. You don't have to worry about any of that anymore, you're gonna be just fine."
"Remus—Re, can we come in? Please? I think Virgil's about to break the door down."
"Get in here."
The rest of them pour in, something Patton only registers because there are suddenly more arms around him, more voices murmuring soft things, more hands rearranging blankets and pillows until he's sobbing into Remus out of more than just fear.
"Hey, hey, it's okay, Padre." That's Roman carding his hand through his hair. "We're right here. We aren't going anywhere."
"Just relax." That's Logan, making him lean back so he can breathe a little easier. "Just try and rest, we won't leave—we can figure everything out later, alright?"
"No more lies," Janus whispers as he settles a pillow to Patton's left, "you need to let us help you, sweetie. We're here for you, you have to let us be."
"Alright, all of you shut the fuck up." Virgil, that's his wonderful Virgil. "We're not gonna overwhelm him any more than we already have. So let him cry this out and sleep a little and you all can fight for who gets to cuddle him first."
This…this no one else gets to see. No one gets to see how happily they all squeeze onto Patton's too-small bed that the twins make bigger so everyone can get comfortable. No one gets to see how tenderly Remus wipes the tears and spit from Patton's chin as Roman takes his glasses and puts them carefully on the nightstand. No one gets to see Virgil, Janus, and Logan adjusting blankets and pillows until Patton's so dazed with sleep that it's a struggle to keep his eyes open.
And he thinks that maybe…maybe this part doesn't have to change. Maybe he's not beyond forgiveness after all.
Maybe he's forgotten that his kiddos love him as fiercely as he loves them.
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getami · 2 months ago
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The Real Ryomen Sukuna, Everything you have to know about that man!
The king of curses, the malevolent kitchen itself, but did he really exist? Where, when, and who was the strongest curse in history? Did Gege approach this case like the others, leaving historical hints in Sukuna as well?
According to some records, Ryomen Sukuna is a figure from ancient Japanese legend who appeared in the Hida Province during the reign of Emperor Nintoku. This is the depiction of Sukuna that Jujutsu Kaisen also uses, but it's not the only one. Emperor Nintoku himself is an interesting figure in Japanese history, so if you're interested in Japanese history, definitely look him up. He is one of those buried in a kofun, a mysterious ancient structure similar to the pyramids of Egypt, but that’s enough about Nintoku.
Sukuna had two faces, four arms, and four legs, with the faces and limbs located on both the front and back of his body. His two faces and four arms make him comparable to mythological beings like Janus from Roman mythology, the god of transitions and beginnings. Like Janus, Sukuna, with his dual faces, may have symbolized opposites and duality, representing both evil and good, destructive and protective forces. His height varies depending on the source, but he was significantly taller than the average people of that time (in some sources, he reached 50 meters, while in others, he was only slightly taller than the people of his era).
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He was fast, super strong, and fought with weapons. Although little is known about him, as the Nihonshoki is such an ancient source with few equals outside of the Kojiki, similar information is scarce. Speaking of his weapons, we can again find some connections with Gege’s work. His main weapon was the bow, which—though in an extreme form—also appears in the second season and the manga under the name Divine Flame (竈 カミノ, Kamino).
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According to the 'Nihonshoki,' Sukuna was merely a feudal lord, not a curse or demon. As I mentioned, there’s no evidence supporting his existence, yet he was featured in major ancient writings. From this, I infer that whether or not he existed, he was important enough to be mentioned, meaning that people of the time knew his name. Even as a man, he wasn’t without credit—he defied the imperial court and caused suffering to the people, so in 377, a general was sent to defeat him. However, in Hida and Mino provinces, he was revered as a hero and worshipped as a deity in several temples. His hidden deity status in the Minashi-jinja shrine suggests that his figure might have been connected to Shinto gods in some way. The local sacred mountain, Kuraiyama, was worshipped as the dwelling place of gods, and some theories suggest that Sukuna could have been the god of that mountain. Some even believe that Sukuna introduced Buddhism to the Hida province.
Anyone reading articles here knows that Buddhism always comes up—it’s one of the core themes of Jujutsu Kaisen when it comes to fight choreography, but it’s also an integral part of the characters. You can find references in their names, or you couldn’t deny that Geto Suguru himself is a reincarnation of Buddha—or at least his head is.
Other theories suggest that Sukuna might have been a symbol of twins or brothers, or perhaps the ruler of a dynasty in Hida that rivaled the Yamato dynasty. The stories of Oousu no Mikoto and Ousu no Mikoto, or Yamato Takeru and his brother, as well as Emperor Chuai’s sons, Kagosaka no Miko and Oshikuma no Mikoto, are all examples of brother pairs whose fates intertwined with Hida and Mino provinces. (Let's not even go into this… Japanese history surpasses any soap opera.) It’s said that he helped local communities and supported the region. He was worshipped in many local temples and shrines, and in several places, he was honored as a 'kaiki,' or temple founder. Here, I’ll insert a picture of Hida and Mino prefectures, for those interested in where this person lived:
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So no trace? Archaeologists think otherwise, as several items bearing Sukuna's name still exist in modern-day Japan! A special, two-faced haniwa (clay figure) was discovered near Wakayama city, dating back to the Kofun period (early 6th century). This haniwa resembles Sukuna and suggests that the cult or iconography of two-faced figures was present in ancient Japan. Furthermore, the already mentioned Sukuna Kabocha, a pumpkin found in the Hida region, is linked to Sukuna’s name, although the exact connection remains unclear. Even though it’s not directly proven to be tied to Sukuna’s legend, this plant still serves as an intriguing reference to the local cultural heritage.
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To be honest, I was skeptical, I didn't think so much could be discovered, but once again I wasn't disappointed by the master. Sukuna is more than the king of curses, and Gege Akutami is more than just a mangaka, he is a true historian.
~Getam 2024.10.02
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justyourtypicaltuesday · 8 months ago
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So What's Up With Logan? - a speculating post for the season 2 finale
While I, like everyone else, am anticipating the season finale, I thought I might as well summarise my thoughts in a post.
In LNTAO, Logan outright explains he's irritated with being repeatedly ignored.
"There will be times in which I must be heeded and given our... current circumstances... I clearly haven't been."
This really stands out to me. It's no secret that due to being consistently talked over, shut up and disregarded, Logan's struggling to deal with his emotions- and keep up the facade he puts up pretending he doesn't have any. This is only evidenced further when he throws paper at Roman. But this quote almost feels like foreshadowing, suggesting that there will come a time Logan's the only side with the right answer, and because of the sides and c!Thomas' practice, they won't listen to him and will exacerbate the problem doing so.
Another interesting quote from LNTAO is hidden in plain sight- the overlapping verses from Logan and Thomas in Incomplete.
"This just serves as a testament to the fact that you have a temperament, which is fine, you just haven't accepted it, if you'd let them finish they'd get to the-"
"This just serves as a testament to the fact that to me you're negligent, which is fine, it just works to your detriment, you not letting me finish is proving my-"
Both verses here provide context into Logan's character. This confirms that c!Thomas is fully aware that Logan has emotions, specifically a temper, and that, in his eyes, the song was an attempt to get Logan to accept that part of himself. This could be setting up a very powerful scene in the finale, Janus and/or Thomas confronting Logan at a point when Logan pretending he doesn't have emotions is actually damaging Thomas as a whole.
Additionally, Logan feels neglected by Thomas. That's a word which is not used lightly. He points out that being ignored is actively causing detriment to Thomas, which he conveniently doesn't hear as he's talking (singing?) over him at this point in time.
They're both right. Logan is ignored to the point of detriment, but he also thinks highly of himself ("I'm the most important side here!") and often disregards the others' contributions until he's actively proven wrong. This is a repeated character flaw of Logan's. It's also seen Growing Up, Moving On, and even in Asides like Can Plushies Improve Our Health?. While Logan's been the cause of minor conflicts in the series, having him cause a problem on a scale similar to Patton in POF would be intriguing to see from a narrative standpoint. It's clear that in the latest episodes, Logan is struggling and maybe at some point soon, constantly being antagonised by c!Thomas and the other sides is going to have an effect.
This brings me to WTIT. This is the last plot-dependent episode we've had, so it naturally is where a lot of my theories are coming from. While we can see a lot of Logan's progress as a character- specifically in prioritising Thomas' mental health- we also see his lowest point so far. Thomas' mental health has been steadily declining since SvS, introducing Remus, the discussions during POF and this episode all make it obvious. And this is reflected in Logan. Despite taking precautions and relaxing the schedule so Thomas feels comfortable, Logan loses his cool when he yells at Remus. What the orange eyes mean is TBD, but Logan's emotions in that moment say one thing and one thing only: he can't keep it down much longer. Each time we see Logan lately, he's been more and more distressed. In LTNAO, he throws paper at Roman, in SvS he's left out. In DWIT he's exasperated the whole time trying to calm down the others. In POF he's clearly done with exerting any amount of effort getting them to listen to him. And here is the result of all that pent up anger.
"I just want to help Thomas become the best version of himself he can be, and in order to do that, he needs to listen to me. Unlike yours, my methods aren't the flashiest, and it's not very often I get the chance to get through to him. Please understand my insistence on the matter."
The words right before his outburst mean a lot too. Logan's been already established as a perfectionist, but here he outwardly admits his goal is to improve Thomas as much as possible. We've already seen c!Thomas second-guessing himself because of difference in opinion between sides, so here's an opportunity to explore Janus v Logan conflict. Logan questioning Janus' advice to Thomas to take it easy could mean that the rest isn't as effective as it could be and cause a problem they'll need to discuss. Logan's been largely absent from Janus-related episodes, so an argument in which Janus explains Thomas has worth as he is while Logan is focused on perfectionism and improvement is not unbelievable at this point in the story.
On the topic of Janus, I believe he's going to play a huge role in Logan's character development. The main thing holding Logan back is that he's lying to himself. He repeatedly insinuates and sometimes outwardly states that he doesn't have feelings, and both c!Thomas and Janus know this is a lie.
"I don't feel anything."
"Oh, of course you don't."
My theory is that Janus, as practically a living lie detector, is going to confront the sides about the lies they tell themselves, and being more truthful about themselves will help Thomas long-term. While this can be explored for each side, I'll save that for a post for another day and point out how specifically Logan's lie about not having feelings is already questioned multiple times in the series, setting it up to be confronted soon.
In conclusion, my speculations for the season finale are:
Logan's going to have another outburst- in full view of c!Thomas and the other sides this time, and it will have to be addressed.
Janus/Thomas and Logan are going to confront each other, Logan over being repeatedly ignored and sidelined, and the others over Logan consistently lying about not feeling emotions.
Logan is going to be the outright antagonist in at least one episode of the finale, along the lines of Patton in POF.
On the contrary, in one episode Logan will have the right answer, but be ignored because... well, duh.
Janus v Logan conflict is going to be a large plot point- addressing perfectionism and to what extent you should accept yourself as you are and to what extent you need to work on growth.
If you got this far, thanks for reading. It's my first post as a blog and I hope you enjoyed reading my guesses to what we'll see surrounding Logan in the finale. I'm planning on continuing with in-depth analysis of other sides and other theories I have, but so far this is what I've gathered in regards to Logan's direction at this point in the series.
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clinically-obssessed · 5 months ago
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Remus' Purpose
So far in Sanders Sides, we have seen that two of "dark sides" - Virgil and Janus - are just as essential to Thomas as the "light sides." Without Virgil, Thomas has no motivation, and Janus introduces an element of self-preservation that would otherwise be absent. But what about Remus? So far, all we know is that he represents intrusive thougts, but we have not yet seen in what way he helps Thomas. And it's not immediately obvious that he does at all: the two episodes in which he appears as a major character portray him as pathological, focusing on strategies to help Thomas cope with and avoid intrusive thoughts. But I think, given the show's increasing attention to Patton's overly strict ethical rules, Remus will play a key role in helping Thomas accept himself and change his attitude toward morality
In his introductory song, Remus sings a number of lines that relate to morality. He begins with a Biblical allusion, drawing a parallel between Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit and Thomas learning about Remus. He says, "Adam and Eve bought knowledge for the small price of a little sin," framing Thomas' own pursuit of self-knowledge as a transaction that requires him to break his moral rules. Later in the song, he states that "Good and bad are all made up nonsense" and that "everybody cheats, everybody lies, so why deny yourself knowledge?" which attempts to justify Thomas' descent into sin. This is further reinforced by Remus' assertion that "these kinds of things are only thought in the mind of a man whose soul is truly rotten," which is intended to dispel Thomas' self-image as morally righteous. In Remus' view, what is holding Thomas back from understanding himself and reaching his full creative potential is that he is too caught up in false notions of morality, and it is only by dropping these pretenses that he can truly achieve his goals.
At this point, you should be screaming, "Whoa! That sounds exactly like the philosophy of Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844-1900)!" That is precisely because I've described it in a way that is intentionally similar to the philosophy of Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844-1900). I think that drawing this parallel will allow us to understand the character's direction. Nietzsche was a highly influential philosopher because of his rejection of most things everyone else - even philosophers - took for granted. His writing is complex and difficult to interpret - likely intentionally so - but one of his most famous ideas is that morality is subjective. He criticized Christian morality as "slave morality", claiming that it celebrates weakness and keeps people from achieving their true potential. Additionally, he believed that the metaphysical claims of Christianity were becoming less and less believable in the face of advancements in science and philosophy, so Christian ethics no longer had any grounding either. Instead, he says, it is up to every individual person to give their life meaning. To him, there is no objective truth, only each person's will to power. In this new world that can no longer find answers in God, everyone must strive toward an ideal known as the ubermensch, or "overman," a person who is able to overcome their own weaknesses, create new things, and affirm all aspects of life.
The similarities between Nietzsche and Remus are clear. Both embrace self-understanding, value creativity, and reject moral systems as barriers to achieving one's goals. Furthermore, they share a particular orientation toward controversy. Nietzsche's work is filled with contradictions, and his style is exaggerated and extreme, suggesting that his writings do not form a logically coherent philosophical system or even necessarily reflect his own beliefs but are rather intended to challenge societal norms and promote critical thinking. In the same way, Remus intentionally gives Thomas uncomfortable and disgusting thoughts which he knows will contradict Thomas' morality in order to force him to question his values and assumptions about himself.
With this in mind, it seems likely that Remus will play a major role in the finale. The arc of the show has been focused heavily on the idea of morality, and as "Putting Others First" revealed, Patton's standards are only hurting Thomas' mental health. Janus made the case for the importance of self-care using psychology, but his argument is not fully convincing. As Roman pointed out, it is necessary to find a balance between selfishness and selflessness, and Janus does not answer his question of "When is it enough?" Therefore, it may be necessary for Remus to come in and force Thomas to confront the fact that Patton's morality is not only hurting him but it is based on false premises to begin with. By bringing ugly realities to the surface, Remus will challenge Thomas to stop passively accepting the moral codes that have been handed down to him by society and to create his own meaning and values that serve him.
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energetically-exhausted · 9 months ago
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hello, hello! I have sort of an idea/rant/question.
(about the whole Patton casting the "Dark Sides" out thing.)
so, like, did he?
because obviously, it'd make sense if Thomas' Morality disapproved of Deceit and Dark Creativity, but,,,
in Can Lying Be Good?, it's explained that Janus kept everyone's "mouths shut" about himself and Remus.
and in Dealing With Intrusive Thoughts, Remus sings about how Janus basically sent him off to fuck with everyone.
and Patton was VERY clearly offset by Remus' appearance. (i mean, come on.)
but in Can Lying Be Good?, the very episode that introduced the concept of the "Dark Sides", Patton seems super unaware of what's going on. and when he sees Janus (who's in his spot), he really isn't surprised to see him at all. just sorta oblivious but confused? but i'm guessing Patton understood that it was Deceit, because when Thomas worried about Janus calling him a good person, Patton realized that meant Janus tried telling him that he wasn't.
still, though, Patton didn't really hate that Janus kept appearing. he was just always the one to be challenged. and he definitely aimed that anger from his own actions at himself. (i mean, it led to him turning into a buff video game frog, so..)
and if Patton was the one to have hidden the "Dark Sides", how?
and how come Virgil was able to appear?
i dunno, something about Janus controlling when the Sides can talk about them sorta throws a wrench into this.
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thecrescentmind · 1 month ago
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Silly sanders sides au I made up: the kids show au!!! As the name would suggest, the basic premise is the story of Sanders Sides but if it was a tv show for younger kids instead of a webseries for whatever the age demographic for SaSi is supposed to be.
C!Thomas is a child in this one (like eight/nine I’m thinking?) and on his birthday he receives a magic (kind of not really? I’ll get to that) mirror and with it he can travel into his mind and meet his sides! With his creativity, logic, and morals by his side he goes on adventures through his mind fighting imaginary monsters and even other sides. Through these adventures he learns lessons about himself and how to deal with problems in the real world. This au is pretty light hearted compared to the other ones I’ll post about, there are story developments and bad things do happen, but since it’s meant to imitate a kids show it’s a lot more sanitized and everything always works out eventually.
More info under the cut:
It’s sort of vague whether or not Thomas’ adventures or imaginary or not and if the mirror is actually magic, I think it’s kind of implied it is his imagination? But like in the same way it’s implied the canon sides are imaginary so nobody cares and we all collectively treat them like they’re real
The biggest difference in the characters other than age is our creative side, I picture Thomas’ creativity not have been split, at least not when the story starts. So we have Romulus aka King Creativity (we’ve all accepted that piece of fanon right?) hanging around. I picture at some point there’d be a big fight between him and Patton that results in the split, imagine like a two part special. In the end they’re able to save Romulus (it’s a show for young children afterall) and decide to keep him aswell as Roman and Remus around, so sometimes they’ll be seperate and sometimes they’ll be fused depending on the situation.
All of the sides are kids in this one but not all of them appear the exact same age as Thomas. Logan is the youngest (do yall remember that thing that was going around a while ago about Logan being the youngest when Thomas was a kid cause the logic part of your brain develops later or something idk). The creativity twins are around Thomas’ age but a bit younger. Romulus and Janus are both the same age as Thomas (Janus might be slightly older but just barely). Virgil is older than Thomas, sort of imitating Thomas’ perception of a mean older kid type. And Patton is the oldest (he’s still a kid though).
I haven’t mentioned orange but I will probably add an orange side if I do more with this au, I think he’d be anger. I’m a firm believer in him and Patton being related somehow so they’d probably be siblings in this au. Not sure when that split would happen but that could maybe be after Romulus’ split because Patton feels guilty about what happened. “You can’t get angry anymore! Look what happens when you get angry! You hurt people” or something like that. I think he’d appear the same age as Logan.
The dark sides aren’t really a plot twist here, especially since two of them might just- not exist at the beginning of the story. They do get introduced over time though in probably the same order as in canon. They get redemption/acceptance arcs over time as well.
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delimeful · 1 year ago
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the roots of something greener (1)
G/T July Day 9: Rainy Day
patreon prompt: kid logan trying to make a deal with fae janus for nyn! hope you enjoy :)
warnings: magical deals, threats, unwilling transformation, implied parental neglect, mentions of starvation and abandonment
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The first time the child found him, Janus was already in a foul mood.
The day had started out with a light drizzle, and as the hours crept by, it had slowly grown into a far more irritating downpour.
This wouldn’t have been anything near a problem for most fae, and certainly a meager handful of years ago, Janus would have hardly spared it a fleeting thought. Even if he didn’t care to waste any magic on a simple repelling spell, he could have simply slipped between realms, abandoning that particular stretch of human land until the storm passed.
Now that he was banished and bound, however, his options were far more limited.
There would be no leaving the human realm, not until his time was served. His sentence wasn’t so harsh as to confine him to a single circle, but being able to jump between this and that ring of mushrooms didn’t help him much when the rainfall was present over the entire forest.
He grit his teeth as a stray drop managed to make it through the leaves above him, the thickest canopy he could find over one of his rings.
Though it was only a single raindrop, it drenched his head and shoulders with ease. His form in mortal realm was limited by the space he was allowed, and the only proper faery rings within these woods were barely large enough for a human to step a single foot into.
He wasn’t sure if only being able to manifest at the same size as a child’s doll was an intentional part of his punishment, or merely a bonus. Either way, it was certainly humiliating enough for him to resent it.
It was in this soaked, resentful mood that he heard the distinct pattern of human footsteps, leaves and other detritus crunching rhythmically underfoot.
“What curious timing,” he muttered irritatedly to himself, turning to face the intruder with a smile that was almost certainly a little too sharp for human tastes.
… And then promptly lowered his expectant gaze a foot or two, because the human approaching him was unquestionably a mere child.
Young, likely barely a decade old, and with the thickest, blockiest pair of spectacles Janus had seen in ages. While the child wasn’t dressed for the weather, he was carefully holding a deep blue umbrella over his head as he picked his way over the muddy forest floor.
The little thing froze for a moment at the sight of him, and for a moment Janus thought perhaps this was some unwise youth that had wandered off from his parents, with no idea what was before him.
Then, he straightened up formally, eyes glinting with excitement, and it became clear that the child knew exactly what Janus was, and likely thought he knew exactly what he was getting into, as well.
(Part of Janus was admittedly relieved. Being locked out of his home realm meant there was no easy defense against humans who stepped into the space of the ring, and he really wasn’t in the mood to dodge the grasping fingers of a toddler who thought him a toy.)
“Salutations,” the child greeted belatedly, quickly reaching up to adjust his rain-splattered glasses with his free hand. The umbrella drooped slightly without the support of both of those undersized arms. “I’m searching for the, um, the fair folk of this wood. I’d like to make a deal.”
How bold, to open with such an attention-grabbing phrase. Janus reclined back slightly, attempting to look regal even with his hair plastered in wet strands across his face. “Well, now. Isn’t it good manners to introduce yourself before making requests of strangers?”
The child’s face pinched slightly, but he’d clearly done at least some research. “You may call me Logic.”
Janus hummed. “Well met, Logic. I go by Deceit.”
“Deceit?” Logic echoed with a frown. “I thought fair folk weren’t able to lie.”
“They’re not,” Janus agreed pleasantly, some of his humor returning to him at the usage of a familiar bit.
For all his flaws, none of the humans he’d tricked over the years could claim they hadn’t been warned from the start.
“Then why,” Logic started, before shaking his head firmly, dismissing the line of questioning in favor of his original goal. Whatever had brought him here, it was clearly important to him.
It always was, when they were willing to make a deal for it.
“I’d like to make a deal,” he repeated, setting his shoulders and stiffening his posture. “I want to learn how to use magic.”
Janus refrained from letting the derisive edge sneak into his smile. “And what could you possibly have to offer in return for that?”
“I can offer you equal knowledge in exchange,” Logic responded, wearing a very serious expression that looked quite amusing on such a young face. “I may be young, but you’ll find that I’m very good at researching.”
The offer was exactly what he should have expected from a human child, especially one that had never dealt with the fae before. It was likely that his little research hobby was the only reason he’d learned enough to make it this far.
“My, you certainly have a lot of confidence in the value of knowledge, don’t you?” Janus mused, distantly glad that it was him that the child had chosen to annoy with this, rather than a more power-hungry sort. “Very well, I accept the terms of your deal.”
He held out a hand, and almost immediately regretted it. He’d forgotten how easily dwarfed he was, like this.
When Logic reached out, however, it was with a slow and careful hand, his face scrunched up intently as he used two fingers to emulate a handshake. There was no pinching pressure or crushing grip, only the distinct warmth of human contact and the slight electric spark of the deal being sealed.
It almost made Janus feel bad for what he was about to do.
“Your first lesson,” he announced, pulling his hand back and flexing his fingers absently, “is to never make such open-ended deals with fae.”
Logic recoiled slightly, looking slightly bewildered, and Janus forced his smile into something crueler as the sting of magic grew sharper.
“An offer of any knowledge I please, so long as it’s of equal value? You haven’t even clarified which kind of magic you’re so desperate to learn.” Janus leaned forward slightly, wrapping his hand around the invisible cord of the deal. “I could request your name, control over the very essence of your being, and all I would be required to do in exchange would be provide you with instruction on magic of suitable power. Your terms are exploitable, little one.”
He let the implied threat linger, watching as the implications sunk in and the child’s worry began to turn to fear. The sight of it was a sour curl in his gut, but this was a lesson better learned here and now, rather than later and with more permanent consequences.
“Of course, I have no particular desire to teach you any magic at all, let alone the complexities of magic strong enough to be equivalent to a name.” Janus slowly released all but the tiniest sliver of the potential the deal held. “Hm. I think a demonstration of simple magic will do, to satisfy both your curiosity and mine.”
Transformation spells were painful and slow when cast a certain way, a fact that many of his kin had taken advantage of when dealing with humans. Janus kept the magic brief and painless, because for all his flaws, enjoying the needless suffering of a child was not one of them.
With a snap of his fingers, the child’s form shifted to something more thematically appropriate.
The umbrella clattered to the ground, catching on the breeze and skittering a few feet away from the kitten that now sat on the ground before him, blinking in disorientation.
“Consider our bargain complete,” Janus informed the kid, finally able to speak to him at eye level. “As the last tidbit of magical knowledge I’ll impart, have this: recognition is the key to returning you to your true form.”
Looking as though he was composed of more fluff than flesh, Logic let out a tiny, confused meow. His eyes were surrounded by distinctive, blocky markings, the spitting image of the chunky square glasses that he wore as a human. It was the easiest possible condition Janus had ever set; it was near-impossible to look at the kitten and not see the resemblance.
With a flick of his hand, the kitten was whisked to the edge of the woods that he’d entered from, where there was surely a guardian nearby to find him and undo the minor curse before the sun had set.
With any luck, the experience would scare the kid off from any further attempts at playing with magic he didn’t understand.
Job done, Janus glanced at the abandoned umbrella, lying far out of reach of his undersized mushroom ring, and then turned away with a sigh.
What a waste.
Janus hadn’t been one to keep track of the time, before, but that may have simply been because time was much less linear in the faerie realm. The length between one moment and the next could be stretched or squashed, and so time tended to be more of a feeling than a fact.
In the human realm, things were much simpler. The sun rose and fell and rose again, and that was a day, every time without fail. He could hardly lose track of something like that.
As such, Janus knew that two full days had passed when he next saw Logic.
Logic, not the child, because he was still, inexplicably, in the form of that tiny, barely-weaned kitten.
It had been sheer luck that Janus spotted him; he’d been moving between one ring and the next throughout the day, absently looking for any stray detritus that had fallen close enough to his ring to be tugged fully inside. Any shelter made from such impermanent materials was destined to be temporary, but Janus was tired of the chill, and willing to take any reprieve from the elements he was offered.
Looking at the soggy little beast that was crouched a few meters away, Janus felt an odd sense of guilt crop up within him. Clearly, he wasn’t the only one who had been enduring the weather.
Fur matted and damp from the on and off rain that had plagued the area, body trembling from cold or hunger or a combination of the two, Logic looked like the definition of pitiful.
And why wouldn’t he? For all intents and purposes, the child apparently spent the last couple of days trapped in an unfamiliar body and stuck in a hostile environment, with no aid to be found.
… Why hadn’t someone recognized him? For that matter, why weren’t there humans traipsing about through the trees in search of a missing child?
Logic sneezed miserably, interrupting what seemed to be an attempt to use his new, keener nose to track down a meal. His tiny ears angled back in a distinctly feline form of frustration, a gesture that would have undoubtedly been cuter if he hadn’t been so visibly on the brink of starving.
Well. Janus wouldn’t get his answers if he just left the child there, would he?
“I know you, child,” he said, voice carrying enough to make the kitten’s head snap around toward him. “I didn’t expect you to still be scurrying about like this. Why in the world would you not simply go home?”
Acknowledging his true form did the trick. The spell unraveled like he’d pulled on a loose thread in a knit blanket, the magic falling away with ease and leaving the child in his oversized spectacles sitting there in the dew-dappled grass.
For a moment, he remained like that, folded over on himself like a baby deer laying still and hoping that predators’ eyes would skip over him.
Janus met his gaze and raised a prompting eyebrow, waiting for an explanation on how such a simple curse had gone so wrong that the fae who laid it, of all people, had to be the one to free him from it.
In the next second, Logic had sprung to his feet and bolted. His steps were wobbly and likely fueled by panic alone, but adrenaline was undeniably effective in getting him very far away, very quickly.
“Rude,” Janus muttered to the empty air he’d left behind, and then followed the kid as far as he could manage through his rings, making certain this time that he’d actually left the forest behind.
There still wasn’t a single other human around, let alone one that appeared to be looking for something as valuable as lost offspring. Janus tried not to let the information grate against his scales, with only mild success.
In the end, he still wouldn’t get his answers. It didn’t matter. The child had clearly been scared off for good, so there was no use pursuing the issue further.
He shouldn’t dwell on things he couldn’t change, anyhow.
The third time Janus encountered Logic, the child found him first.
It was another overcast day, with a light sprinkling of rain that was certain to become something miserably damp within an hour or two.
He hadn’t expected any more visitors, and certainly not any that would make it to one of his rings and lurk there, so he’d been more puzzled by the relative dryness of the leaves beneath his feet. In fact, he hadn’t realized anyone was near, let alone guessed just who was sitting at the edge of the faerie circle until a tiny, presumptuous throat cleared.
(Such obliviousness was out of character for him. If the kid had been a snake, he could have bit Janus.
Good thing he’d picked a kitten before, instead.
Even if those, too, had fangs of their own.)
Logic waved a hand, showing no signs of his previous panicked flight– except there was a slightly harder set to his shoulders, Janus noticed, like he was preparing for a difficult fight.
He’d brought a bag with him this time. It was partially open, and Janus easily made the connection between the spare pieces spilling from it and the plastic canopy that had been painstakingly assembled over his mushroom ring. Large and durable, it was currently diverting the rain away from Janus’s circle with streamlined ease.
“Hello, Deceit,” the kid greeted. “I’m back for my next lesson.”
Between them, the deal rekindled, sparking dull embers back to life at Logic’s willful insistence. With a willingness to keep providing knowledge, he could theoretically continue to learn for as many lessons as he paid the dues for. It was one of the many loopholes that were applicable to such open-ended deals, but Janus certainly hadn’t anticipated the child using it against him.
How interesting. It seemed there were still things an ages-old fae couldn’t predict, after all.
From beneath the comfortable shelter of an oversized dollhouse gazebo, Janus tipped his head back and laughed.
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holdnarrytight · 6 months ago
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Sanders Sides current drama/next plotlines for season finale:
- Patton isn't quite ready to move on from c!T's ex and isn't open to Nico yet but he won't speak up cause he doesn't want to ruin it for Roman and Virgil
- Virgil has a secret Janus and Remus know and have been using to get to him. They hint at this in almost every video. This secret is likely to be something Virgil has desperately tried to keep from the other sides out of fear it might change the way they perceive him and turn them against him again. Janus and Remus have both accused him of purposefully keeping information from the other sides, and he never denied it but rather tried to silence them, likely out of guilt
- Virgil and Janus have some kind of history. Virgil despises him but doesn't seem to feel as strongly about Remus who's also a dark side. Ergo, something must have happened between him and Janus specifically.
- If Janus and Remus expose Virgil's secret, there's the possibility one or multiple of the other sides might be really disappointed or upset or take some time to forgive him. It's hard to guess what their reaction might be because we don't know yet the nature of what Virgil might have done. Lot of angst potential here
- Janus and Remus have some kind of secret plot going on that involves breaking Logan, exposing Virgil and introducing the orange side to c!T. I read a really good theory on this by someone here this week. Janus is the mastermind and Remus is following his orders.
- Orange side is revealed with an introduction song
- Logan blames himself for giving the orange side a chance to reveal himself through him
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