#intertype relations

[peppermint-twst]

I like to think Princess Leah/Leia has the same personality type as Lilia mostly because Knight of Dawn and Silver are presumably copies of each other, and in Socionics theory, Silver is an ISFp/SEI. Lilia is an ENTp/ILE which means they have Dual relations meaning they have the most harmonious parent-child relationship type.

Romantically the best partner for Silver would also be an ILE (which happens to be MY type like Lilia)… so my biggest hope is that Knight of Dawn and Princess Leah are Duals as well. We barely know anything about them but that’s what i want to go with in my head.

I love Socionics cuz it gives so much fuel for self-shipping since it’s heavily focused on intertype relations. So I’m going to try to make more posts about it.

[reijndeers]

socionics and intertype relations is so fun man it's so cute seeing how people who get on so well have dual or activation relations

[fourtyfourcatss]

I don’t think we need to do the third one then!! You’re definitely ESI! Let we give you a basic rundown of socionics:

Socionics is a very different system from MBTI even though it uses cognitive functions like MBTI— but it has very different definitions of it. Hence why MBTI does not necessarily translate to socionic types, especially for introverts (introverted functions). The last letters for socionics is lowercase, and is usually indicative of it. So ESI is ISFj for its type abbreviations, and its main block element is Fi, the most automatic function for you. There are some really interesting things in socionics, for example, intertype relations — check it all out here where it would be at the bottom— but it holds a lot of sources of where to read up some stuff, which may or may not be accurate. My favorite one is this author. IMO the intertype people are usually most interested in is Duality (which describes your more compatible opposing type). But our types (ESI and ILI) are activators, a very common relationship for friendships!! There’s also ESI OBSERVATIONS. You can see if you relate to this type or not.

Socionics has many different variants too, and ways of analyzing them (subtypes exist). You’re likely the ESI-Fi subtype!

As for your psychotype, it’s called Plato! Let me DM you the info!!

Sazh sazh sazh I’ve found some really cool long personality quiz things that are like mbti do you want to take them (kinda long tho)

ME DOING A QUIZ? THAT IS LONG? UM..

YES YES YES. I love long tests bc they are always so damn accurate

[typometrics]

Finding Your Ideal Relationship In Typology

SOCIONICS

This system has probably done the best job at showing what a ‘perfect’ relationship might look like. As most who have studied know, it’s called DUALITY. This promises ease of interaction and very close psychological distance. Moreover, they say that meeting this individual can be the event of a lifetime, like meeting your soulmate. 

“It inspires aspects in each parties character that they had never expressed before: the pair may even drop out of society for a time in order to focus on just each other and to explore themselves through interaction.”

I would encourage people coming from Myers Briggs to not judge this based on your knowledge of that system. In a post previously I mentioned this but they don’t correspond together synonymously.

The pairing goes as follows:

ILE (ENTp) - SEI (ISFp) ESE (ESFj) - LII (INTj) EIE (ENFj) - LSI (ISTj) SLE (ESTp) - IEI (INFp) SEE (ESFp) - ILI (INTp) LIE (ENTj) - ESI (ISFj) LSE (ESTj) - EII (INFj) IEE (ENFp) - SLI (ISTp)

DCNH is another system within socionics which another form of Duality is important in a relationship.

Dominant - Normal Harmonic - Creative

Sharing the most complimentary connection in thought process is the closest you’ll get to an ideal match. Although, even that could be soured if you consider something much less deep.

ENNEAGRAM, VARIANT & TRITYPE

For the Enneagram, you want someone who’s going to bring out the best in you. That’s not a person who makes you stressed, worried, frustrated or upset. You don’t want your problems to get worse so to sort out who that person is, look no further than the growth and disintegration of your type. If we’re with someone who puts pressure on our stress fixation, it’ll really bog us down in the long run. We want someone who will help us integrate and stay positive, someone who will keep us the furthest from our issues.

1 → 7 2 → 4 3 → 6 4 → 1 5 → 8 6 → 9 7 → 5 8 → 2 9 → 3

When it comes to the Enneagram in general, we’re dealing with our problems and that’s our responsibility. Relationships should be about putting those aside, not what they look like on the person or how they’ll handle them. That kind of projection tends to lead to expectation and conflict.

Regardless, I have a theory that’s pretty interesting for tritype relations. This is mainly based on the patterns I’ve observed with the people in my life and to my understanding of the types and their needs. Here I’m looking at hornevian and harmonic groups which are tied to different styles of behavior.

Aggressive types are attracted to Compliant types. (3, 7, 8 → 1, 2, 6) Compliant types are attracted to Withdrawn types. (1, 2, 6 → 4, 5, 9) Withdrawn types are attracted to Aggressive types. (4, 5, 9 → 3, 7, 8)

Competent types are attracted to Reactive types. (1, 3, 5 → 4, 6, 8) Reactive types are attracted to Positive Outlook types. (4, 6, 8 → 2, 7, 9) Positive Outlook types are attracted to Competent types. (2, 7, 9 → 1, 3, 5)

Now, if you’re a 3-6-1 tritype who wants to find your ideal match up. Here’s my hypothesis:

3 aggressive → 1, 2, 6 compliant → 3 competent  → 6 reactive (compliant) 6 compliant → 4, 5, 9 withdrawn → 6 reactive → 9 positive outlook (withdrawn) 1 compliant → 4, 5, 9 withdrawn → 1 competent → 4 reactive (withdrawn)

And there’s your match, 6-9-4. Not saying this will work in REALITY but it’s just my methodology in the world of Ti. The dynamic will inevitably have problems but it’s set up for compromise and has the most possible shared complimentary components to it.

For the MBTI of that tritype, you can reference here.

I posted about variants a while back but here’s the gist of that:

SX/SO with SP/SX or SO/SX SX/SP with SO/SX or SP/SX  SO/SX with SO/SX or SX/SO SP/SX with SP/SX or SX/SP SO/SP with SO/SP or SP/SO SP/SO with SP/SO or SO/SP

[socionics]

A diagram I drew of the Rings of Supervision

[typingcharactersbymoonlight]

Shuichi (LII) and Kokichi (ILE)— Mirror Relations

This fit too well so I had to share it, I just changed type names to character names, given they were the example I was thinking of for their types.

Original can be found on wikisocion under "Mirror Relations INTj and ENTp by Stratiyevskaya“ (since tumblr acts funny with links)

Mirror Relations of Shuichi and Kokichi by Stratiyevskaya

This intertype description has been written by Vera Stratievskaya. The original article can be found at her blog Socionics from Stratievskaya.

Introduction

As with any mirror dyad, one type in this pair is rational and the other irrational. In this case, both are statics. From this follows the collision of two static sets of values, antagonism of two static programs: rational one (logic of relations) and irrational one (intuition of opportunities).

Ego Block: Channels 1-2

Shuichi feels frustrated by the manipulative logic of Kokichi, by Kokichi’s ability to “juggle” logical arguments and facts, if only to subordinate them to his hypothesis and captivate his conversation partner with his ideas and notions.

On his end, Kokichi feels frustrated with the logical inertness of Shuichi, by his desire to subordinate the idea to the theory. For the sake of elegance of his theory, Shuichi “juggles” various notions and may leave some out if they undermine the logical flow of his theory – this is something that Kokichi cannot forgive him for. How can one sacrifice all these ideas for the sake of one theory when on their basis one can build a million other theories? What is of prime importance: hypothesis or theory? (What comes first: the chicken or the egg?)

Superego Block: Channels 3-4

Normative, respectful of social norms and rules of conduct ethics of Shuichi comes into conflict with the blatantly “hooligan” ethics of Kokichi. That is, all the conflicts, scandals, and awkward situations that constantly arise around Kokichi are left to Shuichi to resolve and clean up the mess. In such conditions, the normative ethical function of Shuichi is put under a lot of stress. Even though Shuichi is capable of some ethical flexibility, it is still difficult for him to function in the role of a diplomat and much easier to ask his partner keep himself in check. Shuichi is subconsciously expecting to see the observing ethical function of his dual Kaede. Thus he assumes that his partner should be able to manage and coordinate his relations and monitor his behavior himself.

To requests to “keep himself in check” Kokichi responds highly inadequately from the point of view of Shuichi. Suffering from complication of ethical situations, Kokichi seeks to destroy around himself relations that are “unsuccessful” from his point of view and impose on others his “anti-ethics”, with which he further aggravates ethical frictions.

On his end, Kokichi feels annoyed and disappointed by the softness and amenability of Shuichi, his dislike of becoming contentious with or without a reason, his unwillingness to fight with the “windmills”. Kokichi is particularly worried by Shuichi’s reluctance to contend and assert himself. The normative sensing of Kokichi is too weak to constantly lend assistance in protection of the rights and interests of another. That’s why Kokichi needs a sensing partner who is capable of this type of compensation. Kokichi can “play” the defender of all those oppressed and wronged, his warrior-like ardor can break out in short bursts of anger or chaotic activity, but to continuously protect another’s interests is not within his capability. Thus, sometime his “mirror” partner will hear him say: “Defend your interests yourself. I won’t get involved in this.” With this he disappoints Shuichi, who is expecting the energetic and arduous support of his dual Kaede.

Level of SuperId: Channels 5-6

Most discomfort in “mirror” relations arises from lack of support for weak, unconscious functions of both partners. Each of them needs reinforcement and guidance on these aspects, but neither of them receives this much needed information from his partner.

Kokichi feels loved only when he is surrounded by the most meticulous, precautionary care, and the most exquisite comfort. It is clear that he won’t receive such care from his “mirror” partner. Shuichi feels that he himself is in need of this kind of attention. When Shuichi does not receive such support, he grows irritable, starts complaining and blaming others, becomes sluggish and inert. In such condition, of course, he won’t be able to provide any assistance to his partner.

Getting the sense that he isn’t loved and cared for has a disheartening effect on Kokichi. Feeling unloved, he becomes emotionally irritated, tries provoke his partner by quarrels and scandals, arranges for various emotional shake-ups, which for Shuichi, who is suggestible on the aspect of the ethics of emotions, will be very painful experiences. Shuichi eventually comes to see his partner Kokichi as a person who is irascible, cantankerous and irritable, and will feel perplexed and disappointed by such relations. As a result of this Shuichi may disengage and stop worrying about his partner at all (“as you relate to me, so I will relate to you”), which will be further exasperating for Kokichi and evoke new outbreaks of his wrath.

The inability of “mirror” partners to help each other over suggestive and activating functions of Super-Id turns into never-ending string of problems, a vicious circle from which they have trouble escaping.

Level of Id: Channels 7-8

From the standpoint of his observing function of logic of actions, Shuichi will critically perceive any attempts of Kokichi to show off his pragmatic business capabilities. Where Shuichi considers himself to be a humble “consultant”, Kokichi will declare himself a “jack of all trades”.

The same happens on the aspect of the intuition of time. When Kokichi takes on the role of an unassuming observer, Shuichi becomes the active creator of historical events, and, in the opinion of Kokichi, he always “appears” at the wrong time in the wrong place and not in the right situation. Such evaluations are made because each of the partners has his own “critical time” and his own reference points. Which one of them is right – only history will tell.

[snobgoblin]

The post about the members' ideal types reminds me. So in one personality system Socionics there's part of it that's intertype relations, basically some types get along better than others. And each type has a dual, which is theoretically the type that they would get along the best with. It's funny that you describe 2D's type as "oddball, weird but trendy" because I've pegged him as an SEI and that description fits ILE a lot which is SEI's dual

Also something funny, along with duals each type has a conflictor which is the type that they get along the WORST with. I'm pretty sure Murdoc is an SLE and it's funny that he hates hippies so much because SLE's conflictor is EII which is the stereotypical hippie type

AHHHHH!!!!! OMFG!!!! that's amazing wow /gen

[kendrixtermina]

I’ve finally gotten around to looking at WTF Psychsophy/Attitudinal Psyche is

First: Does anyone know where to get books on it? I couldn’t find  Afanasyev ‘s original one on amazon. It might never have been translated from russian.

At first glance it might seem like the Jungian Systems like mbti and socionics since there’s 4 ‘slots’ and 4 qualities two of which roughly map to what’s coloquially known as “emotion”

(Indeed some ppl have tried to conflate it since the sonionists generally think they have a theory of everything, & extended all that stupid intertype relations BS to it which I find worthless even in socionics proper)

P only distinctly resembles Sensing and V is something completely different entirely. 

Though I think will is overrated. I seldom agree with the church but I think there’s something to the catholic model of the psyche as made up of spirit/thoughts, soul/feelings and will, & that it is not the same as instinct/senses or intuition (though of course the catholics would forget instinct since the appetites are “of the world” etc.)

Maybe you could even extent the system by adding intuition as a 5th aspect... As it is I think ‘associative thinking’ is folded into Emotion in this system. 

there are 24 or on some accounts 25 types but also a pretty easy method to determine it:  is no complicated induced structure like with mbti, you just take the 4 aspects  & put them in order of prominence or importance

The 24 types are the (a 25th one where all the aspects are equally valued or in 2th position - which they say would be something like a Yogi or a Zen Master) Essence Type/ 12gram has the Solar Type as a person who values mind, body & heart equally (but has a bias towards the positive)

There’s 4 Aspects - Logic, Emotion,  Will, & Physics/body. 

They also show up very differently depending where you rank them, it seems very different actually from the mbti functions where it’s kinda just the same thing but better or worse. 

In the 1st position it’s something you’re picky & confident about whereas in the second you’d be very open-minded with it & use it to connect to others; The 3rd is something you get very worked up/emotional about but might have complexes/insecurities with and the 4th is something you dont care for unless its for a clear purpose- 

A simple ordering according to preference (without bothering with the slots) the colloquial meanings (I couldn’t find any source that crisply defined them anyways) gives me LWEP. 

I also took an online test - I notice that a lot of questions are phrased like “How often do you think about...” which makes me wonder how it’s meant. I sure THINK a lot about obligations for example - but because they stress me, not because I am good at fulfilling them.

The test gave me  LEPW. 

I read up the descriptions of both, and insofar as I can tell from those it’s definitely NOT LEPW. Exhibit A: 

“Money takes an important part in your life. You try to be handsome and well-groomed in front of people” 

Haha no im a trashfire hermit

“You are a person who is able to distinguish 50 shades of smile, sight or other sorts of emotions. Lying is easy to reveal for you, this is why it's difficult to deceive or manipulate you. You are able to support who needs it. You appreciate deep, kind and truly honest people, and you hate "blind" emotionally people. It's easy to you to be the soul of any team. “

ffff I avoid group work whenever possible, I’ve fallen for my share of scams/dupes, I tell everyone I get involved with to “please be direct with me I cant pick up indirect shit” & I actually loathe people who judge others for not being exptressive in a conventional way. my holy trinity of Waifus all kinda fit in that category

“You are a soft and tolerate person. You are able to forgive people if they repent, even after serious mistakes. 

Absolutely not. if you’re out you’re out & im never speaking to you again

Which leaves LWEP

What’s LWEP supposed to be like?

1L

You have a strong inner passion to logical analysis. Your brain is constantly analyzing, rating, trying to find the truth out. And it relates to every part of life. Inside of you there is a big immutable picture of the words, which is constantly being improved by your experience. You like smart people, but usually you don't aim to share your experience with others. You prefer to provide ready logical results instead of thinking process. You don't like empty talks. You don't talk very much with people around, but you always talk clear.

2W

You are a soft and flexible person, people around appreciate you for that. You value respect and justice very much. In many cases it's difficult to say "no" for you, but not cause of weakness, but cause of the sense of respect towards people. You are capable to find a mutual and reciprocal solution in any situation. You are always polite with people. You defend people towards whom an injustice takes place. You are inclined to negotiate same many times in order to manage the situation and to clarify details. You are always interested in opinions of others and never ignore anyone.

3E

You are an emotional person very much, you are sensitive and vulnerable. It makes you try to be closed from people around. You don't have many people whom you trust. Towards emotions you value attentiveness, sense of tact, deepness and sincerity. You are able to notice emotional lie and selfishness immediately - it pushes you away. You understand animals well, they like you. Other people find you as a person who is always ready to listen to, to understand, to yield sensibly.

4P

You are the person for whom mental are more important than material. Of course, material things are not an empty place in your life, but you used to consider it as a way of self-realization. You don't value material things much, you don't affect to them, their value is how much profit they can provide. You are not pedantic towards the order of things, the same is about your health. As for comfort, you are unpretentious.

That’s actually remarkably spot on, especially in the capturing of not stereotypically associated traits. 

I wouldn’t say I’m “soft” or “can’t say no” but I’m definitely very open-minded (or at least try to be) & interested in people with different opinions

I guess I’m also starting to reach an age where environmental influences start to predominate - my 16 year old self would have agreed a lot more to most of this, if partly out of youthful overconfidence. Or less trauma. 

“W” is sort of associated with organization etc which I am very bad at, but I know that as a kid I was more often described as “tough” or “strong willed”. 

But that would have been before a good chunk of the traumatic incidents. 

Except for the part with the animals. I don’t hate animals in any way but I also really do not connect with them very much & im a little afraid of them. Though I’d attribute this to not having any pets in our household as I was growing up.

if anyone has further reading i would like me some

[mbtimyths]

Hi, I am trying to mix game theory with relationship in MBTI. And I had to quantify the best type of relationship in the MBTI and for that iI used the intertype relation in socionics. The problem is that I need to find a way to explain why I classify some relation higher than some others and also justify why some of them will have a higher score than the others in my game. For example a Dual relationship have a score close to 1 (high) and conflict will be close to 0 (low).

This is awesome! I’m going to start by listing the rankings as assigned by sociotype.com, then I’ll explain the reasoning I deduced beneath the cut.

The compatibility of intertype relations, from greatest to least, is as follows:

Duality

Identity

Activation

Mirror

Mirage

Semi-duality

Congenerity

Cooperation

Recruit

Supervisor

Recruiter

Supervisee

Super-ego

Extinguishment

Quasi-identity

Conflict

So I went to https://sociotype.com/tools/ and used the intertype relationship calculator to get a gist of how they rank the relationships. (I'll translate the Socionics lingo to MBTI in the parentheses.) I'll also use this graphic to illustrate Model A through Jung's archetypes:

I found that they score types that value the same functions (dominant through inferior) the highest– let’s call this the “soulmate” group. Second highest are the types that share only two valued functions AND two independent/dependent functions (think of dominant/inferior and auxiliary/tertiary as “sets”, represented by the heads vs hands above: hands do what heads signal)– call this the “peer” group. Third are the types that ONLY share two valued functions– call this “transactional” group. Lowest are the types that do not share any valued functions– call this “opposite” group. Each group has sub-criteria to determine ranking within that group.

In the soulmate group, functions in the same sets rank above functions in opposite sets; then, functions in opposite positions rank above functions in the same position.

In the peer group, shared functions in opposite positions rank highest; then, as the tiebreaker, I ranked the relationships with mirrored (Ni/Ne, etc.) leading (dom) functions higher.

In the transactional group, the subject ranks relationships differently than their partner. Relationships in which the subject’s creative (aux) function is matched or mirrored by the partner’s leading (dom) function are ranked highest; then, relationships in which the subject’s leading (dom) function is complemented (Ni/Se, etc.) or mirrored by the partner’s creative (aux) function rank higher.

In the opposite group, functions in the same sets rank highest; then, leading (dom) functions of the same orientation (i or e) rank higher.

So... what the hell does this ACTUALLY mean in MBTI terms, you ask? Let’s break it down type by type (using INFJ as example subject)

Duality: same values, same sets, opposite order; balanced strengths and weaknesses with aligned priorities (dom Ni complements dom Se, aux Fe complements aux Ti)

Identity: same values, same sets, same order; aligned priorities but unbalanced (total match, no complements)

Activation: same values, opposite sets, opposite order; balanced but priorities are misaligned (dom Ni complements aux Se, aux Fe complements dom Ti)

Mirror: same values, opposite sets, same order; misaligned priorities and unbalanced (dom Ni matches aux Ni, aux Fe matches dom Fe)

Mirage: half same values, same dependent set in opposite order; similar perspectives with balanced strengths and weaknesses (dom Ni mirrors dom Ne, aux Fe complements aux Ti)

Semi-duality: half same values, same independent set in opposite order; balanced but perspectives dissimilar (dom Ni complements dom Se)

Congenerity: half same values, same independent set in same order; unbalanced but perspectives similar (dom Ni matches dom Ni)

Cooperation: half same values, same dependent set in same order; unbalanced and perspectives dissimilar (aux Fe matches aux Fe)

Recruit: half same values, subject’s aux function mirrored by partner’s dom, dom function complemented by aux; subject’s critical function is triggered (aux Fe mirrors dom Fi, dom Ni complements aux Se, crit Fi triggered by dom Fi)

Supervisor: half same values, subject’s aux function matched; partner’s trickster function is triggered (aux Fe matches dom Fe, dom Ni triggers trix Ni)

Recruiter: half same values, subject’s dom function mirrored; partner’s critical function is triggered (dom Ni mirrors aux Ne, dom Ni triggers crit Ni)

Supervisee: half same values, subject’s dom function matched; subject’s trickster function is triggered (dom Ni mirrors aux Ni, trix Te triggered by dom Te)

Super-ego: opposite values, same sets, same orientation; two sides of the same coin (introverted doms, backwards opposites)

Extinguishment: opposite values, same sets, opposite orientation: same side of matching coins (mirror opposites)

Quasi-identity: opposite values, opposite sets, same orientation: two sides of matching coins (introverted doms, inside-out mirror)

Conflict: opposite values, opposite sets, opposite orientations: foreign currencies (inside-out and backwards mirror)

This was the hardest ask I’ve received in years, and I learned a lot while finding an answer! Thanks for the ask anon, and please send us documentation of your game. I’d love to share the finished product!

P.S. A reminder to my general followers: ALL TYPE COMBOS CAN HAVE SUCCESSFUL RELATIONSHIPS. And preferences are unique to individuals! My lived experience doesn’t match these “compatibility rankings” at all. Yes, your type dynamics will influence your relationships in loose patterns that may or may not correlate with intertype theory. Intertype relations are a tool, not a rule :)

[afriendtokilltime]

Why do you prefer Socionics to MB?

The biggest reason is because of the purposes of those two systems. They both explain how people differ from one another, but socionics is built around trying to explain/define/optimize relationships and communication, while MBTI tends to focus more on business. I like to use typing systems to analyze characters and to understand people who are different from me, and I don’t hire people, so socionics is better suited to my reasons for liking types.

I like that Socionics is function-focused, whereas MBTI is dichotomy focused. MBTI does have a method for translating dichotomies to functions, but since it’s a subgroup of MBTI fans, I never know if someone who says “INFJ” means “Ni-Fe” or doesn’t. I also prefer the way socionics defines functions. Both systems are based on Jung’s 8 types/functions, and in some cases they went in very different directions. For example, Socionics Se is very focused on power, control, and manipulation, whereas MBTI Se is very focused on aesthetics, impulsiveness, and expansiveness. You can see why they come from the same root, but MBTI Se is actually more like Socionics Si. I’ve seen a lot of MBTI ENTJs end up typing as Socionics ESTP/SLE or ESFP/SEE.* Actually I’ll make another post comparing all 8.

Another thing I really like about how socionics does functions is that you have a relationship to all 8 of them–so there’s 8 “slots” and all the functions have to go in the slot. (I know Beebe’s model does something similar.) I prefer having both “dual-seek” (excellent but you suck at it) and “PoLR” (NO GOD WHY) functions rather than just “inferior function.” MBTI defines the relationship to the inferior as like…the worst of dual-seek suggestibility combined with a PoLR hit. Which is fine, but I like the socionics version more. (For example, MBTI can tell you that @randomshoes​ is surprisingly nostalgic and wants a clean, comfortable environment without knowing how to create one, but can’t tell you that she is nearly incapable of expressing affection in a serious manner. Though you could probably guess that from ENTP stereotypes without the construct of “Fi PoLR.”)

I like how over-complicated socionics is. There’s the types themselves, which have 8 different function locations to think about and understand. There’s the cognitive styles. There’s all the other Reinin dichotomies, which aren’t great for typing but are really interesting to think about how types are similar/different in surprising ways. There’s the actual intertype relations, which I’ve just got to despite them being the main point of socionics. Even though I don’t like the over-emphasis on duality, especially as a romantic goal, I do like how all the relations describe different communication issues and resolutions all relationships can have.

Pictured: extinguishment in action.

To clarify, I actually do think that on at least some level, duals probably have the best/easiest communication. Just, that doesn’t make them necessarily good romantic partners.

*A few ways to look at this: they are more accurately understood as ESxP in both systems but MBTI has a heavier anti-sensor bias; they are ENTJ in both systems but overemphasize their HA (or ESFP in both systems but overemphasize their HA), they are people who just want to be powerful and picked the most powerful type in both systems, or the types just are subtly different and don’t always line up.

[mbti-community1789]

ESFJ & INTP Relationship: Duality

1. Alpha Quadra Duality Relationship (ESFJ & INTP)

These relations are the most favourable and comfortable of all intertype relations providing complete psychological compatibility. Dual partners are like two halves of a whole unit. They usually understand each others intentions without any need to say a word. Dual will naturally protect your weak points and appreciate the strong ones without asking for anything in return. Interaction with your Dual allows you to be yourself without the need to adjust to your partner like in other relations. This often saves both partners a lot of energy which they can use for their own interesting activities. Conflicts between Duals are very rare and if there are any, they are normally short lived and solved without pain. Your Dual partner will love you just for what you are and if there is such a thing as true love then it could probably only occur in relations of Duality.

However, let's not idealise these relations too much. Although theoretically relations of Duality are the best of the best, practically not everybody who is your Dual will make your dreams come true. The reason for this is that we are usually so twisted up during the course of our lives that our already formed and stable views and attitudes can affect our relationships quite heavily. In fact, younger people have more chance to succeed in the quest for their perfect partner than older people. But the chances are always there.

There are at least two conditions to be completed for a successful relationship between Duals. Firstly between the partners there has to be at least a minimal mutual attraction. Secondly and most importantly is that the partners are truly striving for the same or similar things. This may include common interests and/or life goals. Partners that are both seriously thinking about building a family are a good example. Logically saying: two halves of the same whole must not repel or move in the different directions, otherwise the whole will break into pieces. Relations of Duality also go through several stages. The first stage sometimes can be really tense. It is like a new engine that requires a "run in" first. If relations crumble it normally happens in the first stage. The more stages completed by Duals the more unbreakable their relationship.

However, nature has played a little trick on us. It is difficult to notice your Dual partner among all the other types and even easier to pass them by. Usually during first contact extroverts think about their introvert Dual as ordinary and simple, therefore not deserving their personal attention. In return introverts consider their extrovert Dual to be too good for them and therefore unattainable. Both positions usually belong to people who had a lack of Duality interaction during childhood. The magnetic effect of Duality becomes obvious when partners do not see each other for a while. Only after being together for a fair amount of time do the partners start realising how much they need each other. Finally, these relations are most suitable for friendship, marriage and family life. To have a Dual partner is irreplaceable if you have to compete or survive in a socially dangerous environment.​

​

Transliterated Socionics Article. I’ve used the closest matching MBTI terms to prevent confusion.

INTj socionics types are converted to INTP MBTI types using Ti-Ne psychological functions because they use Ti-Ne psychological functions, and ESFj socionics types are converted to ESFJ MBTI types using Fe-Si psychological functions because they use Fe-Si psychological functions. And the LII, ESE, are the ESFJ-type and INTP-type alpha quadra.

​ ESFJ (ESFj Socionics type, ESE, Fe-Si): A sociable and cheerful person, pleasant and attentive companion, the soul of the company. He knows how to manage the mood of other people, raise it in times of despair, or ruin it for those who have not lived up to his trust or lost his respect. Because of his straightforwardness and passionate temper, ESFJ often jeopardizes relationships and so needs a partner who can keep cool and calm, and who will understand everything and give him objective advice.

ESFJ is practical and expedient in domestic matters, loves to take care of others. He tries to do everything himself, rarely asks others for help. However, he is also emotional and sensitive, and therefore needs praise, empathy, and participation.

He has a developed aesthetic taste, pays great attention to the beauty around him — from his own appearance to the interior of his living space. Poorly tolerates miserliness in partners. He prefers to earn money and spend it on his own.

Optimistic and careless, ESFJ need advice of a partner who is not only farsighted, but one who can succinctly and accurately analyze any situation and deliver a clear and unambiguously worded summary or forecast, leaving no room for doubts and alternatives.

ESFJ is inclined to take on too much work and activities, including that which is unnecessary. INTP must monitor his activities, cutting off the excess and assisting only in the essential, which he is able to do gently, in form of clear logical advice.

INTP (INTj socionics type, LII, Ti-Ne): In this pair INTP acts as a sensible, reliable and intelligent friend, and ESFJ — as a vibrant, caring and loving parent, which ensures in general a harmony of mind and senses.

INTP possesses clear logical thinking, trying to explain to others his understanding of things and becomes very upset if no one listens to his opinion. Therefore, he needs a cooperative partner, who has a sense of humor, and who is flexible and diplomatic.

INTP prefers to plan his activities and does not like to change his plan when something else is imposed on him. His partner should listen to his advice, respect his wishes, and try to not disturb his plans.

INTP finds it difficult to constantly think about the pressing needs of the family, because his mind is often elsewhere, sometimes submerged in his work and research. Thus, domestic issues mostly fall on the shoulders of ESFJ, who requests the help of his partner only if he cannot manage himself. In such cases, he draws INTP into the process not by orders and directives, but with his emotions and enthusiasm. INTP then splits the task into steps and consecutively solves it.

INTP finds it difficult to be pushy and zealous, and often suffers during conflicts due to lack of break-through qualities. It is difficult for him to defend the interests of his case, and to listen later to accusations of inertness and lack of energy — just unbearable. Active, persistent partner, able to achieve goals that he sets earns his respect and gratitude.

INTP experiences great difficulties when it is necessary to take the initiative in a relationship or show his feelings. Because of this, he is often considered a dry and unapproachable person. He needs a partner who will take responsibility for creating and maintaining relaxing, warm and pleasant atmosphere in communication.​

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Terms of dualization:

1. INTP type should be listened to by ESFJ type advice, and need to be more friendly and tactful in relationships with others. On the other hand, because the ESFJ type is affected by emotion, the ESFJ type can ruin the relationship, and then the INTP type can help stabilize the ESFJ type with its own sober logical arguments.

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2. ESFJ types, which are train and active, know various real problems and tactical methods, help INTP types in solving problems in areas that are too complex for INTP types.

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3. ESFJ type is careless and imprudent, and does not see the possible consequences of an issue well, so insightful advice of INTP type is needed, especially with respect to monetary and economic matters. Establishing strategic goals and initiating events in time should be done by INTP type.

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4. In the intimate realm, the initiative to abandon all prejudices and reveal emotions is, "Don't love me - you have to be careful of my love!It should fall to the ESFJ type, who acts quickly and confidently in this field under the principle of `` . The cold, expressionless, shy, and unsure of the right to be loved by INTP type by this demeanor causes the ESFJ type's emotional expansionism unconsciously. And here's a sexual secret: Without emotional preparation, the genitals of INTP types are generally hard to wake up.

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[typometrics]

Duality Relationship: ILE & SEI

ILE (ENTp, Ne-Ti) - The Innovator SEI (ISFp, Si-Fe) - The Mediator

The Innovator has somewhat torn away from reality. He is captivated by far-reaching projects. He usually has many ideas and interests, which he explains so vaguely that only few people can fully understand him. The Mediator, however, does not reject them at once, but displays an interest; if he notes one that is useful, he looks for support from people who can help with practical realization of these ideas. If these ideas, however, seem to him too naive, or if their implementation is too problematic, The Mediator can subtly 'ground' The Innovator's inventive energy, calm him down, and distract him from 'fighting windmills'. The Mediator appreciates The Innovator's originality of thought and often shares in his interests and his passions. In general, he tolerantly relates to this 'eternal child', playing the role of a caring parent. He manages the practical side of their everyday life together.

Jules (ILE) & Vincent (SEI) - “Pulp Fiction”

The Innovator critically refers to everything that has been already invented and made. He searches for new solutions and alternatives. Analyzing the situation and finding points that are arguable, he may cause a split in an organization and create his own group of adherents. However, due to lack of tactfulness he cannot always attract and keep his supporters. His dual, The Mediator, is an expert at 'shuttle diplomacy'; he is quite capable of banding people together, softening the ethical mistakes of his dual and finding support from his superiors. He takes care of the comfort, rest, and entertainment of other people, can arrange gatherings and parties. In handling everyday tasks and chores The Mediator is very active and mobile. He strives to finish all that he has started, but on the condition that he is convinced that it has good future prospects and that he receives advice on the resolution of complicated and intricate situations. The Mediator watches and manages the flow of work and does not let The Innovator drop everything and stop halfway being pulled aside by another idea. The Innovator needs such a person who can exert a stabilizing effect on both affairs and relations.

The Innovator readily mobilizes in critical moments. He courageously rebuffs his opposition, protecting both his own interests and interests of people close to him. While at this, he sometimes loses the sense of measure and goes overboard. The Mediator watches for this and skillfully directs his initiatives. When The Innovator loses his energy and vitality, and begins neglect his duties, The Mediator arranges for an emotional shake-up for him and by this raises his spirits. Likewise, The Mediator can soften a conflict and extinguish a quarrel by relying on diplomacy and jokes, before it leads to a break up of their relations. The Mediator's feelings often return The Innovator 'to solid ground' and distract him from abstractions, making him consider the practical side of life as well.

The Innovator does not regulate interpersonal distance in communication very well; sometimes he is inappropriately familiar and impolite, too trusting towards other people, or too kind to those who don't care for him. For this reason he may fall into troubles and difficult situations. The Mediator relieves him from such mistakes.

The Mediator can take care of the health and well-being of others. The Innovator appreciates this trait of his dual. He responds with reciprocity, strives to be faithful in their partnership and friendship, which is especially liked by The Mediator.

Although from afar The Mediator demonstrates an optimistic attitude, he, in actuality, is very much afraid of the future as the source of uncertainty. His dual saves him from such doubts by foreseeing what is going to happen and especially by taking protective actions and measures of global strategic nature. The Mediator periodically falls into periods of inaction and laziness, but his dual does not rebuke him for this and does not require him to be always highly productive. The Mediator likes The Innovator's talent to derive benefit out of everything without much effort, to make profitable deals, and willingly assists his partner in such endeavors.

Spontaneity, immediacy, ingenuousness, and impulsiveness in life and in feelings are the 'visiting card' of this dual pair.

© Description From: V.Meged, A.Ovcharov.

[damnmuse]

dual relations in socionics: ESI (ISFJ) & LIE (ENTJ)

Duality is the intertype relation between the two socionic types that fit each other ideally.

[rainykittydelusion]

@enfjbunny and @enfjmusings There's a reason for this. Study Socionics. Look up intertype relations in Socionics and study both types in Socionics and u will know why.

Hello! I've read on tumblr that ENFJs and ESFJs tend to butt heads and I was wondering if you could explain some of the reasons for this. I'm an ENFJ and I have a friend who is an ESFJ. Although we have many of the same values and have the same career, I can only handle her in small doses. She just wears me out and I can't explain what it is about her.

I. know. exactly. what. you. are. talking. about.

ENFJs/ ESFJs are quick to get along because they’re both extremely skilled at doing that very thing. Getting along with people. 

We’re both Fe, but the subtle differences become… not so subtle over time. I feel like my Fe is constantly judged by the ESFJ’s Fe for being not always punctual, for forgetting to bring something, for changing plans spontaneously (chaotically, to my ESFJ friends), and bringing up “weird topics” that to them disturb the peace. I *know* when my ESFJ is annoyed at me and it makes me anxious when they either passive-aggressively point it out or say “it’s okay!!!!!” with a lot of pep. 

I find myself engaging in more small talk than I like, trying really hard to match their type of Fe, trying to stay super bright and warm but in a way that feels kind of fake. 

I find myself getting tired if I hang out with ESFJs for too long. And I have a feeling its the same the other way around. 

[kendrixtermina]

Extra Typology Vol #1 - Solar Funfacts

Stats: positive and active - 

(Indeed, defined as the single most positive type with a pronounced lack of negative perceptions, with every part of their thinking, feeling and doing showing an abundance in its positive parts and underdevelopement in its negative parts. )

Rough Analoga: xxFP, sx 7, sp 2, Mercurial, Artistic

Particularities:

Basics: Optimistic, innocent, delicate, big dreamer, ethereal, hardworking idealist,  “too good for this sinful earth”

Perhaps the type least “at home” in our current world, and the rarest (except in some expanded versions of the system) - often feel like they do not fit in without really knowing why, despite all their attempts to the contrary. 

Often described as “full of light”, but despite their genuine enthusiasm, might harbor an inner sense of melancholy or loneliness

Live in a magical world of phantastical possibilites long after all others have become accustomed to the harshness of reality - unaware of limitations, be it their own, those of other people, or of the world at large; Underestimates the negative potential of situations & might fail to detect when others are being insincere or selfish

Focus on abstract, utopian theories; Might espouse idealistic far-fetchesd visions of social change or be drawn to metaphysics and philosophy

Almost seems to be pure energy - will work and/ or play extremly hard with no sense of when it is time to rest. Highly focussed on their aims and work tirelessly, if not obsessionally, in pursuit of those aims; Is not deterred when their implausible projects don’t work out

The sort to “forget to eat”; Might live only on chocolate bars if not supervised. Tends to neglect self-care & overtax their body, forgets about time or dressing appropiately for the weather

Does not easily learn from experience

May fail to get jokes, especially dark humor

Uninterested in mundane every day life - Drawn to unusual pursuits such as renaissance fairs or new-age groups; Might find them no less arbitrary than the “ordinary world”. 

Evidently the snowflake of the essence types, which might be why the popularized 12 gram version leaves them out, though there should be little overlap with the 9-gram’s 4s as those are distinctly focussed on negatives. Perhaps someone with both 4 and 7 fixes might be a kind of equivalent, but, I know what type of person this refers to, I can think of both real & fictional examples rn. In any case, now both optimistic and pessimistic individualist/special/artsy folks can find a home somewhere. Yay~ 

Strenghts:

Prodigous hard work often pays off and may accomplish sucess even in loftly goals others used to scoff at

Attempt things no one else would like to try

Loves & believes in sucess stories

The classic romantic (or tragic) hero; Is often found charming & endearing by others

Ambitious and given to workaholism

Common Pitfalls:

Naivity - getting swindled and exploited repeatedly and failing to learn from it

Power/vanity - might be driven to archieve their idealistic visions no matter the cost

these two potential flaws are not mutually exclusive, at worst, they might combine and you get either the charming supervillain who can’t be talked out of their tragic dream, or a fool who’ll risk everything on a harebrained sheme 

Career Recomendations:

Celebrity

Artist

Entertainment industry in general

Subculture related work

All manner of idealistic and abstact pursuits, anything “non-mundane” that might require a lot of dedication

In relations:

Often the “good kid that falls in with the wrong friends” and then isn’t shrewd enough to not get caught or weasel out of the bad consequences

Tends to see the good in all people

Conversely, is frequently beloved, adored  & found attractive - “Star Quality”

However, might lament the shallowness in everyday life and social relations, struggling to find real satisfaction

Living in close quarters can become a little annoying as you might find yourself nagging them about their bare necessities

Intertype Relations:

Has no particular attraction or repulsion to any type nor an ‘ideal match’ and thus may lament the lack of both the joy & heartche that result from passionate love or deep friendship

Often marry each other and join in each other’s bohemian lifestyle

How to get along with:

If you have a Solar in your life, you can resign yourself to some caretaking; Make sure that they eat & wear appropiate clothing

It’s not easy to talk them out of a pipedream venture because they wholeheartedly believe in it and are grimly determined to carry it out

How to parent:

Try to instill solid habits in terms of taking care of the body’s needs - you can’t expect them to settle into healthy rythms on their own. 

Don’t expect them to “learn their lesson” after a negative evnts like falling out of a tree or being swindled by shady friends - rather, use setbacks as an opportunity to introduce them to habits of caution and safety, and reinforce them

Because your kid is sensitive and delicate, you might be tempted to be lenient with them - remember that they will be on their own eventually