#instead we got tentacle Jason and decided to ignore the possibility forever

[kiragecko]

Conceptually Jason coul have made a really good villain for Robin Tim.

I got into the fandom about 6 months before Damian showed up. And there WAS quite a bit of villain!Jason fanfic at the point, most of it centred around him and Tim. I really enjoyed it.

I like the current fanon Jason better, now. I like him as a grouchy and somewhat unstable brother. I like him as a book nerd and chef. I like him firmly believing everyone hates him while they desperately try to convince him to come home. I even like a lot of the stuff where the Pit is almost another personality which he is fighting!

But there's something REALLY intriguing about a Jason who's actually cruel. Who's completely in control of himself, and just likes hurting people. It's not really fair to the character, but I still enjoy it!

(I feel similarly about evil Talia. It isn't fair to the character, but the fanfic is fun!)

[mzminola]

#villain Jason might have made an even better DICK antagonist #instead we got tentacle Jason and decided to ignore the possibility forever #but it could have been really interesting! #at the time Dick had been burned BADLY 3 or 4 times in a row #trying to redeem villains #can you imagine Jason acting as an antagonist after all that?! [tags via OP]

Villain Jason was so fun. Like one thing I adored in Under the Red Hood was that Jason was so clearly what happens when a Robin, specifically, becomes a villain. Other evil futures or alternative dimension selves or whatever don't really utilize the Robin-ness the same way.

But Red Hood Jason was making quips, and doing showy flips despite being built closer to Bruce now, making use of insider knowledge & specialized training, doing the "Let's team up and tackle these baddies together!!! :D :D :D" thing, it was great.

Evil Future Tim is just a very tired, sad Batman with guns, Dick is walking in some established villain's shoes, etc. Anybody could act like the villains they get to be.

So this era of Jason being a Dick Grayson nemesis, that works really well with themes of legacy & influence. Because Jason was Robin. The second one! He took up Dick's first mantle, with his blessing (after some hiccups). And now he's killing people? In the fucking Nightwing suit???

Jason & Tim both idealized Dick's Robin and they are doing such different things with that idealization from Dick & Tim's perspective, and...a great big snarl of different-not-different-same-better-worse from Jason's.

Then the whole Battle for the Cowl fiasco, and Jason kicking around after to cause more trouble for Dickbats as Red Hood.

Jason who's cruel on purpose is an entertaining villain, and I think one of the reasons is that he saves that cruelty for anyone else he views as a villain, and the other capes. If it was spilling over onto everyone he'd just be Random Gotham Rogue #Umpteen, instead of Jason Todd.

Conceptually Jason coul have made a really good villain for Robin Tim.

I got into the fandom about 6 months before Damian showed up. And there WAS quite a bit of villain!Jason fanfic at the point, most of it centred around him and Tim. I really enjoyed it.

I like the current fanon Jason better, now. I like him as a grouchy and somewhat unstable brother. I like him as a book nerd and chef. I like him firmly believing everyone hates him while they desperately try to convince him to come home. I even like a lot of the stuff where the Pit is almost another personality which he is fighting!

But there's something REALLY intriguing about a Jason who's actually cruel. Who's completely in control of himself, and just likes hurting people. It's not really fair to the character, but I still enjoy it!

(I feel similarly about evil Talia. It isn't fair to the character, but the fanfic is fun!)