#infodump about etymology for me please

[geraskierfanficprompts]

Con Sickness

Y'all it got me........ y'all i'm dyin............ y'all........................ read my will y'all i'm gon' be dead sooon........... bruh............. it's lethal....... fatal......................... terminal.....................................................................................................

[h1mmel]

About the 7s visual novel's characters and their symbolism

Taking a break from fanfiction to infodump about my favorite thing ever, which is symbolism in etymology! Sit down because this is going to be a long one... and if you read the whole thing I applaud you and also would love to talk about your thoughts!

Lin Zhaoyu

The origin of her name is actually stated in game itself, coming from the Book of Odes- a Chinese poetry book. Meaning literally, "morning rain," it is taken from the following poem. The letters that make up her name are bolded.

蝃蝀在東、莫之敢指。

女子有行、遠兄弟父母。

朝隮于西、崇朝其雨。

女子有行、遠兄弟父母。

乃如之人也、懷昏姻也。

大無信也、不知命也。

Here is the translation of the poem:

The part about her being untrue to herself in marriage rings very true.

Li Sushang

The symbolism of Sushang's name is connected to that of multiple other characters, despite the literal meaning of it sounding quite simple on the outside. You might see her name via MTL written as "plain clothes," but it's a stark oversimplification of something that's partially lost in translation.

素 (Su) refers to plain silk which has not been dyed, or white silk.

裳 (Shang) is a dress.

The first letter of her name is shared with her mother. Between Sushang, Suyi, Lingshuang, and Su Mei, there is a correlating theme of clothing that I will touch on in each of their sections.

Qin Suyi

As she had amnesia, Suyi does not remember her birth name and was gifted a new one by Fu Hua. Following the trend of how she named Su Mei, her name was also taken from the book of odes. The word Suyi appears in two different poems- again, I've bolded it as written in both.

揚之水、白石鑿鍪。

素衣朱襮、從子于沃。

既見君子、云何不樂。

揚之水、白石皓皓。

素衣朱繡、從子于鵠。

既見君子、云何其憂。

揚之水、白石粼粼。

我聞有命、不敢以告人。

And the translation:

The second poem:

庶見素冠兮、棘人欒欒兮、勞心慱慱

兮。

庶見素衣兮、我心傷悲兮、聊與子同歸兮。

庶見素韡兮、我心蘊結兮、聊與子如一兮。

And the translation:

From the second poem, you can see the references to grief in regard to clothing. While Suyi and Sushang both have the same literal translation of their names, "plain clothes," Suyi's name also carries an additional symbolism. The second letter of her name, 衣 (Yi), refers to a robe instead of a dress, so her name refers to "a robe of colorless silk." This specific term is used in certain contexts to refer to mourning garments, as it is customary to wear white while mourning in some parts of Chinese culture.

This theme of dye is continued in other contexts, where Suyi is known among the Seven Swords as "The Blade of Ink-Dyed Incense." Additionally, her Xuanyuan sword, while known in English as Ebonstyle, is also referred to in Chinese as "Ink-Dyed Incense"- but the word for ink used is different between the two. (It is not letting me copy/paste Chinese words right now so, source: trust me bro)

To delve into my personal thoughts, I think it's so clever that Sushang is "a dress yet to be dyed," while Suyi is a mourning garment, since Sushang still has a long life ahead of her, and Suyi has passed on. Anyways please hit me with a car.

((fun fact: the last letter of Suyi's name, Yi, is shared with Raiden Mei (Yayi), hence why her name comes through MTL as "bud clothes" sometimes 😭😭))

Su Mei

We actually do not know Su Mei's birth name either! She was given a new first name by Fu Hua, and was going to be given Zhaoyu's last name (Lin), but chose to take her mother's surname instead. The reason as to why she chose (or was recommended by Fu Hua) to change her name while still remembering her birth name is unclear.

At Zhaoyu's recommendation, her name also comes from the following poem of the Book of Odes:

It is not letting me highlight the text :,) so the part of the poem that is her name is "margin of the water." Mei specifically refers to where the bank of a river meets the water.

Fun fact: Her surname Su is shared with the MANTIS Su! It is said in legend to also be the surname of Xuanyuan's descendants.

At a time where Filial Piety was of the utmost importance, her changing her surname to take her mother's surname is significant. To change your surname from your father's name could be seen the same as disowning him. At the time, women did not change their names to that of their husband when getting married, hence QIN Suyi vs LI Shen or LIN Zhaoyu vs MA Feima.

While not significant to her name itself, she continues Sushang and Suyi's clothing theme. Her ability revolves around being able to see the threads of fate and predict things that may happen. Hence, it is said about her that anything she says will come true. It's never mentioned in the text, but if you zoom in up close to this art of her, you can actually see her threads surrounding her.

From the threads plus her hair color, it makes me think of the legend of "The Red String of Fate," which is ironic being that she says she does not love anyone.

Cheng Lingshuang

Yes, she does share a surname with Cheng Lixue, but no, they are not related. Lixue was named by Fu Hua, and her surname comes from the philosopher Cheng Yi, and a saying about his disciples waiting for him in the snow, hence Lixue- Snow. Their names are so similarily themed that it's likely not a coincidence on Hua's behalf, but it's more of a homage than them actually being related.

Lingshuang means ice frost. It does not come from the Book of Odes.

To continue the talk on Filial Piety, Lingshuang is the only character to not go by her surname, either in character or on her actual dialogue name tag. She's only referred to as her full name twice, once when she is introduced as a baby, and twice when Senti is beefing with Sushang and low-key throwing shade on her master's name. Lingshuang is a character who ignores societal rules, and Filial Piety is no exception- she has no reason to care about her family or her father, so she disregards her name.

Any instance of her name being translated as "Ling Shuang" is a following mistake on HYV's localization team. (I did personally email them and they fixed it 😭😭😭) It was because the translators did not receive the context that she doesn't use her surname, so they assumed how her name was separated by first and last, as Chinese names don't have spaces between the two. If you spell her name with a space in the middle I will show up at your house at 3am.

The theme of clothes continues from her kid's as she has a loom in her house which she uses to make silk. She says that honing her fingers in such a way is also a way to hone her martial arts.

Ma... Yanqing, Feima

Ma Feima means "the horse is not a horse." He changed his name to this after getting married because he hated his past identity. It comes from "Bai Ma Fei Ma," a Chinese grammatical paradox that does not make sense in English. Don't ask me to explain it because I can't, but it means "the white horse is not a horse."

Ma means horse, and is also the most common surname within the Chinese Muslim community (specifically the Hui people.) It is used often in reference to the prophet Muhammad.

Yan means swallow, continuing Hua's bird theme.

A lot of his names and titles relate to horses. He really likes horses. A lot.

Jiang Wanxi & Wanru

These two get the smallest part because they aren't developed enough for me to GAF (I'm sorry 😭) basically their names come from a poem in the Book of Odes, which is funny since Hua isn't even the one that named them.

I hope if you read this that you enjoyed this session of Fun Facts With Mel and please tell me your thoughts. I also definitely forgot something so I might go back later and add things. Thank you for reading!

[redshiftsinger]

Wednesday sucked in so many ways, please go off about it

OK I HAVE BEEN INVITED TO INFODUMP AND I'M GONNA CRASH THROUGH THAT OPEN DOOR LIKE THE KOOLAID MAN. Now on a separate post where it won't derail the other thing I was trying to talk about!

ANYWAY

So you know how that "nightshade poison" that glows blue and makes people foam at the mouth and get hyperactively erratic/aggressive or whatever is a pretty major plot point?

Well, that's cool and all, except that "foaming at the mouth and erratic behavior" are NOT symptoms of nightshade poisoning. Like, at all.

Look. I have personally experienced (mild!) nightshade poisoning. I've also been intentionally dosed with scopolamine for good medical reasons (said reasons mostly coming down to: scopolamine patches are the only anti-nausea option that actually works for me). And you know what atropine and scopolamine, the main alkaloid poison compounds in nightshade, very emphatically do NOT do? Increase saliva production leading to "foaming at the mouth". The dry-mouth side effect of scopolamine patches is no fucking joke. I'm pretty sure it works as an anti-nausea med by magicking all the moisture out of your entire digestive tract from mouth to anus so there's nothing to throw up (this is mild hyperbole but seriously. The dry-mouth is BRUTAL, I'd almost rather hurl. Maybe not immediately after surgery to have a piece of my rib removed, though).

Nightshade poisoning also does not lead to erratic behavior. It has sedative effects, with fatigue/lethargy (loss of consciousness in severe cases) also being a major symptom. The dry-mouth and fatigue go along with headaches, dilated pupils, and irregular breathing, for the most part.

The poison with symptoms that most closely match what's portrayed in Wednesday as "nightshade poisoning" is actually cyanide, which DOES cause increased salivation, restlessness, and confusion instead of dry mouth and lethargy -- and is also named because of some relationship to a blue pigment, etymologically, so it even kinda vibes with that glowy-blue-spooky aesthetic choice. It's not a perfect match and definitely doesn't actually uh, look quite like that (no, cyanide is not actually blue), but one could forgive some cinematic dramatization given that we're already meant to be suspending disbelief to accept the existence of werewolves, witches, sirens, gorgons etc. for the sake of letting them tell a damn fantasy story... if they'd actually bothered matching the poison to the symptoms at the MOST FUCKING SUPERFICIAL GODDAMN LEVEL!

Honestly, I'd have been fine with the remaining poison-symptom inaccuracies if they'd just called it cyanide instead of nightshade, and they would have lost NO plot points because cyanide is also a poison that can be extracted from plants! Cyanide is the reason you shouldn't eat a lot of apple seeds. Or peach pits. Or bitter almonds (that's a species distinction, not "almonds that taste bitter"; the almonds you buy at the store are from a related, but different plant although yes there is still a small amount of cyanide in edible almonds. It's what gives them their distinctive flavor. Cyanide is also why no matter what some dangerous scammy types claim, apricot pits are the opposite of a "healthy superfood snack". You can give yourself cyanide poisoning real fast nibbling on those -- yes, eating apricot fruits or a normal amount of almonds is fine, you'd have to eat a kinda ridiculous amount of almonds to give yourself any problems and apricots don't put cyanide into the fruit, just the seed).

Fuck you, Wednesday writers, and your insistence on cheaply trying to max out your goth points with "ooooh, it's NIGHTSHADE because that sounds more goth" bullshit when cyanide is plenty goth, serves your plot just fine, and actually has symptoms at least REMOTELY FUCKING SIMILAR to what your fantasy poison is supposed to do.

[losver07]

hi hey hoe ho ho (intro post?)

heyy i'm losver, any pronouns :)

i'll post literally anything but lately it's mainly marauders stuff, greek mythology & just gay shit i think about during the day

also i write sometimes but idk if i recommend reading that

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more random info:

❦︎ birthday: october 30th (should've waited one more day i know) also i'm a minor so ummm yeah take that into account please

☆ i speak: english, spanish, basque (yes as in basque country lol), latin for some reason and morse cause i'm a scout babyyyy

☾︎ feel free to ask anything! just dont be weird/a bitch cause i will show it to my friends & we'll laugh at you. otherwise my asks are always open :) i give good advice i swear!

❀ english is not my first language but still i'm learning so if i mess up please ignore it or be nice when correcting me<3 i'm doing my best but i'm kinda dumb tbh so it's hard sometimes

⚠︎ also good time to mention that if you're homophobic, transphobic, sexist, racist, etc, dni. like honestly being nice is not that hard please

♫︎ aaaanyway some songs i'm obsessed with right now cause why not

✪ my tags:

#losver infodumps you without your consent - for when (you guessed it) i rant about something nobody asked for

#losver tries to be funny (& fails) - self-explanatory, jokes & stuff

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#losver fangirls and #losver is a huge nerd- for fandom stuff and for when i start talking about etymology or some weird shit (sorry in advance)

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☀︎︎ that's all i think! if you need anything (from film/book recs to emotional support) here i am! drink water, take your meds & have a day as bright as you are <3

[thatlittleopossum]

hello everyone!!

welcome to my blog! there's just a couple things you should know before you scroll oon by!!

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all things related to age regressing

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i usually regress to about 5-11!!

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[reine-du-sourire]

The Only Acceptable Canon is Pachelbel.

Welcome to this conglomeration of my thoughts, ideas, whims, and jokes that I find hilarious and that others will just shake their heads in sheer exasperation at. 

I run @thegothiclitcoffeeshop, Chauncey’s. It's exactly what you might think. Stop by for a drink and a laugh.

In the works: The Oak Pancake Café.

Also: Pride Rock Incorporated, my Lion King AU where everyone is human and works in an office and wears suits and everything.

Original posts: ainsi parle la reine (thus speaks the queen)

Here are some things that I like. This may be a good indication as to what I'll be posting (re: rambling, infodumping, fangirling) about.

Anime and manga ~ kuroshitsuji, bnha, danganronpa, genshin impact, vnc

Shakespeare, opera, gothic lit, and other classics ~ shakespeare, opera, the most dangerous game, the picture of dorian gray, frankenstein, dracula, the strange case of dr. jekyll and mr. hyde, p. g. wodehouse (jeeves and wooster), phantom of the opera, sherlock holmes, aj raffles, the most dangerous game, and my favorite book of all, twenty thousand leagues under the sea

Playing my violin, and music ~ violin, music, opera

Etymology, puns, and wordplay ~ puns

Plus ~ redwall, descendants, pirates of the caribbean, brotherband chronicles, ranger’s apprentice, thea stilton, disney, imagine your otp, ninjago, picrew, tintin, ao3, fantastic beasts, batman, marvel, cross stitch, alignment charts

...these tags aren't perfect, so please search my blog for the above if the tags don't work. Trying putting a hashtag first. The content is there- you just might have to look for it!

Feel free to message me! Requests are always open and I get bored.

~

Consider yourself warned. Enjoy my little kingdom.

[creativitycache]

ngl asking for people who self-identify as "antis" is already biasing your results because the term originated from fans being defensive over getting called out (eg the types who sincerely think fandom culture is ""puritan""). fair number of people started to use the term ironically and it might be evening out but overall the post calling for responses on the survey still comes off as something written in bad faith?

I wrote a rather long and involved response and then tumblr ate it. Goshdarn.

Fair warning, this is a hyperfixation and I’m coming off of a migraine so this may not be very cogent. Please read this in the over excited tones of someone infodumping about emulsifiers, with no animosity intended.

So, tl;dr and with a lot fewer links, I’m incredibly interested by your perspective that “anti” originated as a derogatory term.

As far as I am aware, the etymological history of the word “anti” being used pejoratively is coming from some very new debates.

I’m also noting that you had no feedback regarding the content of the questions themselves, which I would be interested in hearing as I am genuinely coming from a place without censure.

The term “anti” actually is a self-descriptor that arose in the Livejournal days, where you’d tag something as “Anti ___” for other like minded people to find. (For example, my cursory google search pulled up 10 Anti Amy Lee communities on LJ).

I’m a self-confessed old. I was back in fandom before Livejournal, aaaall the way back in the Angelfire days. Webrings children! We had webrings! And guest books for you to sign!

I’m going to take a swing for the fences here Anon, so if I’m wrong please let me know, but I’m going to guess you became active as a fan in the past 5-8 years based of your use of the term puritan.

There’s actually a HUGELY new debate in fandom spaces! Previously, it was assumed that:

a) All fandom spaces are created and used by adults only.

b) If you were seeing something, it’s because you dug for it.

These assumptions were predicated upon what spaces fandoms grew in. First you had Star Trek TOS fandom, which grew in 1970s housewives kitchens. They were all friends irl, and everyone was an adult, and you actively had to reach out to other adults to talk about things. (By the way- a woman lost custody of her children in the divorce when her ex husband brought up to the judge she kept a Kirk/Spock zine under her bed. The judge ruled this as obvious signs of moral deficiency. That was in the 80s! Everyone is still alive and the parents are younger than my coworkers!)

Time: 1967-1980s. Is Anti a term? No. Who is the term used by? N/A Is fandom space considered Puritanical? No.

Then, when the internet came about, it was almost exclusively used by adults until The Eternal September. 1993 was the year that changed the internet for good, but even years after that the internet was a majority adult space. Most kids and teens didn’t have unlimited access if their parents even had a home computer in the 90s.

This is the rise of Angelfire, which were fansites all connected to each other in “rings”. You had to hunt for content. If you found something you didn’t like, well, you clicked out and went on with your day because you’d never see it again unless you really dug. This was truly the wild west, tagging did not exist and you could go from fluff to vore in the blink of an eye with nothing warning you before hand. All fannish spaces were marked “here be dragons” and attempts were made to at least adopt the “R/NC-17″ ratings on works to some limited success, depending on webmaster.

Time: 1990-1999. Is Anti a term? No. Who is the term used by? N/A Is fandom space considered Puritanical? No.

In 1999 LiveJournal arose like a leviathan, and here is where the term Anti emerges as a self descriptor. Larger communities began to form, and with them, divisions. Now, you could reach so many fans you could reach a critical mass of them for enough of them to dislike a ship. The phrase “Anti” became a self-used tag, as people tagged their works, communities, and blogs with “anti” (NB: this is at far, far smaller rates than today). Anti was first and foremost a tagging tool used and created by the people who were vehemently against something.

You could find content more easily than in the past, but you still had to put some serious elbow grease into it.

In 2007, Livejournal bans users for art "depicting minors in explicit sexual situations”. The Livejournal community explodes in anger- towards Livejournal staff. The account holders/fans view this as corporate puritanical meddling. The outrage continues as it is revealed these bans were part of a pre-sale operation to SUP Services. SUP Services, upon taking over Livejournal in 2008, proceeds to filter the topics “bisexuality, depression, faeries, girls, boys, and fanfiction”.

The Great LiveJournal Migration begins, as fans leave the site in droves.

Time: 1999-2009. Is Anti a term? Yes. Who is the term used by? People self describing, seeking to create communities based off a dislike of something. Is fandom space considered Puritanical? No.

Where do fans go? Well, in the last decade, they migrated to Tumblr and Twitter (sorry Pillowfort- you gave it a good try!)

What’s different about all of these sites? Individuals are able to create and access content streams. These are hugely impactful in how communities are formed! Because now:

a) finding content is easier

b) finding content you dislike by accident is easier

c) content you dislike requires active curation to avoid

d) truly anonymous outreach is possible and easy (for example, you anon! Isn’t it much easier to go on anon to bring up awkward or sensitive topics? I’m happy you did by the way, and that’s why I keep my anons open. It’s an important contextual tool in the online communications world!)

Now the term Anti gets sprightly. Previously, if you didn’t like content, there was nothing you could really do about it. For example, I, at the tender age of way-too-young, opened up a page of my favorite Star Trek Deep Space 9 fansite and pixel by pixel with all the loading speed of a stoned turtle a very anatomically incorrect orgy appeared.

I backed out.

1. Who could I contact? There was no “message me here” button, no way to summon any mods on Angelfire sites.

2. If I did manage to find a contact button, I would have had to admit I went onto a site that wasn’t designed to keep me safe. I knew this was a site for adults, I knew there wasn’t a way to stop it from showing something. There was no such thing as tags. I knew all of this before going in. So the assumption was, it was on me for looking. (Some may have argued it was on my parents for not supervising me- all I can say is thank GOD no one else was in the living room and my mom was around the corner in the kitchen.)

But now? On Tumblr? On Twitter? In a decade in which tagging is so easy and ubiquitous it’s expected?

Now people who describe themselves as antis start to have actual tools and social conventions to utilize.

Which leads to immediate backlash! Content creators are confused and upset- fandom spaces have been the wild west for decades, and there’s still no sherriff in town. So the immediate go-to argument is that these people who are messaging them are “puritans”.

And that’s actually an interesting argument! A huge factor in shaping the internet’s social mores in the latest decades is cleanliness for stockbrokers. Websites can become toxic to investors and to sales if they contain sexual content. Over time, corporations perfected a mechanism for “cleaning” a site for sale.

Please note there is no personal opinion or judgement in this next list, it is simply a description of corporate strategies you can read during the minute meetings of shareholders for Tumblr, Twitter, Paypal, Venmo, Facebook, Myspace, Yahoo Answers, and Livejournal.

1. Remove sex workers. Ban any sex work of any kind, deplatform, keep any money you may have been holding.

2. Remove pedophilia. This is where the jump begins between content depicting real people vs content depicting fictional characters begins.

3. Remove all sexual image content, including artwork of fictional characters.

4. Remove all sexual content, including written works. If needed, loop back to step 2 as a justification, and claim you do not have the moderators to prevent written works depicting children.

I would like to reiterate these are actual gameplans, so much so that they’ve made their way into business textbooks. (Or at least they did for my Modern Marketing & App Design classes back in the early 2010s. Venmo, of course, wasn’t mentioned, but I did read the shareholder’s speeches when they banned sex workers from the platform so I added them in the list above because it seems they’re following the same pattern.)

So you have two groups who are actively seeking to remove NSFW content from the site.

A) Corporate shareholders

B) People are upset they’re seeing NSFW content they didn’t seek out and squicks them

Now, why does this matter for the debates using the term “puritan” as an insult? 

Because the reasons corporate shareholders hate NSFW material is founded in American puritanism. It’s a really interesting conflation of private sector values! And if Wall Street were in another cultural context, it would be a completely different discussion which I find fascinating!

But here’s the rub- that second group? They're not doing this for money. If there are any puritanical drives, it’s personal, not a widespread cohesive ideology driving them. HOWEVER! The section of that group that spent the early 2010s on tumblr did pick up some of the same rhetoric as puritanical talking points (which is an entirely separate discussion involving radfems, 4chan raids, fourth wave feminism, and a huge very nuanced set of influences I would love to talk about at a later time!)

These are largely fans who have “grown up” in the modern sites- no matter how old they actually are, their fandom habits and expectations have been shaped by the algorithms of these modern sites.

Now HERE‘s the fascinating bit that’s new to me! This is the interpretation of the data I’m getting, and so I’m out on a limb but I think this is a valid premise!

The major conflict in fandom at this time is a struggle over personal space online.

Content creators are getting messages telling them to stop, degrading them, following them from platform to platform.

They say “Hey! What gives- we were here first. The cardinal rule of fandom is don’t like, don’t read. Fandom space has always been understood to be adult- it’s been this way for decades! To find our content, you had to come to us! This is our space! This is my space, this is my blog! If you don’t like it, you’re not obligated to look!”

Meanwhile, at the exact same time, antis are saying “Hey! What gives- this content is appearing on my screen! That’s my space!  I didn’t agree to this, I don’t like this! I want it to be as far away from me as possible! I will actively drive it away.”

This is a major cultural shift! This is a huge change and a huge source of friction! And I directly credit it to the concept of “content stream” and algorithms driving similar-content to users despite them not wanting it!

Curating your online space used to be much simpler, because there wasn’t much of it! Now with millions of users spread out over a wide age range, all feeding in to the same 4-5 websites, we are seeing people be cramped in a technically limitless space!

Now people feel that they have to go on the offense to defend themselves against content they don’t like, which is predicated upon not only the algorithms of modern websites but ALSO talking points fed from the top down of what is and what is not acceptable on various platforms.

Time: 2010-2020. Is Anti a term? Yes. Who is the term used by? People self describing,and people using it to describe others. Is fandom space considered Puritanical? Depends!

So I, a fandom ancient, a creaky thing of old HTML codes and broken tags, am watching this transformation and am wildly curious for data.

Also...I uh....I can’t believe this is the short version. My ADHD is how you say “buckwild” tonight.

Anyways...um...if anyone has read to the bottom, give me data?