#infected ftwd

[frangipanilove]

Pharmakon; Fighting Fire With Fire

...or should I say "fighting wildfire with fire"...

(Part one, read part two here, and part three here)

...in that the virus responsible for the zombie apocalypse is called "wildfire"...

In TOWL 1x3 Bye, we hear the term "pharmakon" used in TWDU for the first time. As Major General Beale explains, "it's an ancient Greek word, meaning both poison and the cure".

In the next episode 1x4 What We, we see Rick and Michonne escape in that yellow hybrid truck, loaded up with cans of ethanol in the back, making it an electric/bio-ethanol hybrid:

We know from season 4 of FTWD that "ethanol" symbolizes "the antidote", or simply a "cure"...

I went into great detail on that here.

What is the connection between the ethanol and Major General Beale's pharmakon?

TOWL 1x4 What We had so many callbacks to TWD 4x12 Still and 4x13 Alone, we all were stunned. Quick question, where would the ethanol (which, according to Morgan Jones, is just a fancy word for alchohol) in the back of Richonne's truck have been produced?

In a still. It would have been produced in a still. Ethanol is produced through a process of fermentation and destillation.

In a still.

Hence all the references to TWD 4x12 Still and the moonshine shack, a shack where ethanol was produced and consumed.

In the series pilot, 1x1 Days Gone Bye, we are introduced to the physical laws of the TWDU.

We follow Rick, who wakes up from a three week coma in the hospital. The world has ended, and he doesn't know anything about what happend, how it happened, or why. He doesn't know what a walker is, and he doesn't know how to neutralize one. Neither do we, the audience. Morgan becomes the charachter who introduces us to the rules:

He checks Ricks temperature and finds it to be "cool enough", meaning he's willing to believe Rick on that he's not been bitten, he's simply been shot.

Pleased by this, he then goes on to explain to Rick, and us, the audience, how the virus works:

"The fever burns you out. But after a while, you come back"

He later elaborates on how relentless the fever was to his wife:

"Her skin gave off a heat like a furnace".... meaning the fever burns like fire...

It's the fever that kills. It burns you up. Then you come back.

(also, read about Sirius symbolism here)

In 5x1 No Sanctuary, we hear Eugene explain the scientific basis behind his alledged cure for the virus. Of course, Eugene wasn't a scientist, and he was never going to find a cure for the virus. However, he was knowledgeable, well read, and able to put together a plausible lie:

Fighting fire with fire. A poison and a cure. Pharmakon.

In TD, we were many who at one point believed in the bite/cure theory, that Beth got bit right before she was taken by the Grady car in 4x13 Alone, and that the treatment she was subjected to involved experimental medical testing, somehow resulting in her surviving the bite without developing an infection/fever. The jury is still out on that one, but in FTWD season 7 we did see a representation of the bite/cure theory that was suspiciously close to our old theories:

Alicia at one point got bit, and proceeded to amputate her arm. As we know, this has so far been the only way a person can survive the bite; by cutting off the affected limb immediately, before the infection has the chance to spread. This is how Hershel survived getting bit in season 3, this is how Lydia survived after her walker bite in season 11.

Alicia, by her own account, wasn't quick enough. The infection spread, and she developed the fever. Of course that's not something anyone can verify, theoretically she could have cut off her arm quick enough, and the following infection could have been a reaction to the amputation itself rather than the virus. However, the assumption given by TPTB is that she wasn't quick enough, and that's also her own belief.

According to Morgan's rules from 1x1, that should have been the end for her. There's no surviving that. She developed the fever...

...and fought it for months...

...way longer than anyone else we've seen in TWDU so far. In 1x6 TS-19, Dr. Jenner explained that the longest time between bite and reanimation at that point was 8 hours. Alicia went months without reanimating...

In 7x15 Amina, we watch her struggle with the fever. She's closer to dying than ever before. She has dreams of herself as a walker, she has hallucinations, she thinks she's talking to a little girl, who in reality is a representation of herself. Alicia is preparing to die in this episode, but the girl, who is Alicia herself, explains that she was once bit, and she survived just fine.

The girl brings up an excellent point:

This is a fair question. This is the role fever normally plays in infections. Fever raises the body's temperature in an attempt to burn the infection out. Fighting fire with fire. But as we know from Morgan's commentary in TWD 1x1, this fever is different:

"Bites kill you. The fever burns you out. Then after a while, you come back".

And Alicia is well aware:

...but the girl, who is a hallucination of herself as a young girl, insists that's she's going to survive.

Throughout the episode we watch Alicia's struggle to avoid giving up. The episode is packed with symbolism we already know and love, such as bird symbolism and stairwells as representations of metaphorical passages between the realms. At one point she's in a stairwell, trying to reach the top of Strand's Tower. She says she's not going to make it, then the girl replies over radio that she will. She then sees a bird, which guides her through the burning tower.

By following the bird, we see Alicia reach the top of the tower. We later see her wake up, her fewer gone, the bird by her side.

She's the first person in TWDU to get bit, develop fever... and then subsequently recover from the fever.

She's the first person to survive a bite and the following infection! That is, if she really was too late with amputating her arm, as she believes herself. If she really was infected, she represents something completely new in TWDU, a complete shift, a paradigm shift, away from the old rules that Morgan laid out in 1x1. The end of the beginning, and the beinning of the end?

A cure?

Last but not least, Alicia's confirms that the bite/cure theory that TD were discussing after Slabtown, could be real. Hypothetically, it could still be what happened to Beth in season 4-5.

What set Alicia's case apart from others we've seen bitten in TWDU, that potentially allowed her to survive the bite, infection and fever, was that she had been exposed to high doses of radiation around the time of her getting the bite. This is where the potential "cure" part of the bite/cure theory comes into play. And this is where "radiation" ties into the pharmakon/"fighting fire with fire" framework.

And this is also where things get interesting for TD, because Beth would have had access to radiation therapy at Grady, in fact, there was a whole storyline about an oncologist, Dr. Trevitt, who Dawn desperately wanted to have saved. Oncologists deal with radiation therapy. And to make matters even more interesting, he had previously worked at St. Ignatius Hospital, and as I explained here, the name "Ignatius" is derived from the latin word for "ignite", which refers to "ignite/spark a fire"...

...fighting fire with fire...

Radiation goes under the "fire" symbolism, because electromagnetic radiation, in the form of everything from UV rays from the sun, to X-rays as well as other types of radiation used in radiation therapy, has the potential to burn your skin. When you get a sun burn, that's the UV rays from the sun burning your skin.

In fact, we saw this theme revisited in the last season of FTWD:

(Thanks @wdway for these screenshots)

We learn that June, inspired by watching Alicia survive for as long as she did after her bite, started experimenting with treating walker bites with radiation therapy. She didn't have massive success, and the patients experienced burns from their treatment and eventually died, but we did see her treat Dwight and Sherry's son Finch after he was bitten. And while he ultimately didn't survive, they were able to extend his life with one week, likely due to the radiation therapy. So while a full cure might be a way ahead, Finch's response to the radiation therapy could be concidered legitimate medical progress.

And as a fun fact, I will mention that after we saw Rick survive his little death fake-out back in 7x12 Say Yes, when he survived by hiding in the yellow carnival ride car which I discussed here, we did see this:

No, I'm not talking about the infamously bad CGI deer, I'm talking about the ER sign behind it. ER for Electromagnetic Radiation? As in radiation therapy? In a death fake-out scene?

If it turns out that radiation therapy in some way, shape or form could help treat walker bites, or potentially create some kind of cure/vaccine/immunity, that would be fighting fire with fire, or should I say fighting wildfire with fire. It's a poison and a cure. It's pharmakon.

Ok, so back to the ethanol. How does it tie in with the radiation, how could it represent a cure, and what does it have to do with Beth and TD?

Well, one clue came in TWD 10x16 A Certain Doom. The Whisperers war was at its height, and Whisperers had surrounded Team Family, who were sheltering in a place called the Tower (interestingly the same location as the one used for Grady Memorial back in season 5) with thousands of walkers.

In order to escape and survive, Team Family mounted loudspeakers on to a wagon, and blasted music to draw the walkers away. The song they went for was an interesting choice; Talking Heads with Burning Down The House:

...whose lyrics include this line: "fighting fire with fire"...

Keep in mind, the walkers in TWDU are what they are because of a virus specifically called "wildfire", they're a threath to humanity because of the wildfire virus...

If that's not a representation of "fighting fire with fire", I don't know what is...

And how do we tie ethanol to the symbolism around "fighting fire with fire" and "burning down the house"?

Because of TWD 4x12 Still, in which houses were definitely, decidedly burned down...

Burning down the house. Fighting fire with fire... And how did they set the house on fire again?

Ethanol. They used ethanol. Moonshine.

Which is why it's so darned interesting that TOWL 1x4, with all the references to TWD 4x12 Still, ended with Richonne escaping in a yellow electric/bio-ethanol hybrid truck, supplied with cans of ethanol in the back. Ethanol, which would have had to have been produced in a still, and is famous for burning really well, even well enough to burn down houses.

And let's again appreciate Daryl's immediate response after learning the truth about the wildfire virus back in TWD 1x6 TS-19:

It's like he knew... He couldn't have known that ethanol/alcohol would be involved in a cure all the way back then, but I have a sneaking suspicion TPTB knew a thing or two about it...

I recently wrote about the resurrection symbolism from the sorghum barn from TWD 6x10 The Next World. In that episode, we saw Eugene endorse sorghum as though it was a miracle grain, and maybe it is, because sorghum can be used to manufactor ethanol.

In TOWL 1x1 Days, we saw a similar type of entusiasm over a different grain, millet, when we learned that Okafor was growing millet in his study/appartment, and was constantly on the look-out for the perfect strain of millet. Millet can also be used to produce ethanol.

In TWD season 9, we saw Daryl oversee an ethanol production plant at the Sanctuary. They made it from corn, which they grew on the premises. As the Sanctuary was a factory rather than fertile agricultural land, the crops weren't exactly thriving, and the ethanol production was at the center of many of the conflicts in 9A.

Nevertheless, we saw Daryl convert bikes and cars to run on bio-ethanol. His current bike, which we saw Carol drive in the sneak peak for DDTBOC (which apparantly needs work on its transmission), runs on bio-ethanol. We saw Maggie, chief of food production at Hilltop, trade produce for bio-ethanol.

It was used as fuel, and now we've come full circle with that, in that we saw the yellow electric/bio-ethanol hybrid truck in TOWL 1x4 What We.

This is already a massive post, so I'm saving the rest for part two.

[im-a-goddamn-cat]

wait i just realized something (potential ftwd spoilers?): alicia is the first ever character to survive a bite infection! 🤯 ik june already mentioned that alicia lived through the infection bc of the radiation she was exposed to but i wasn't sure if that was a confirmed thing bc i didn't know if they were really gonna go the route of alicia being alive lol. also shrike said something about how there could be a genetic factor to it too, so for example madison could also have it, but june wasn't sure. but i think that makes sense bc when june was doing her treatments, the amount of radiation that would've been enough to actually stop the infection was a fatal amount and alicia didn't die from the radiation so there had to be something else going on too, whether it was genetics or maybe she amputated in enough time so that only a little bit of the infection had gotten to her. but anyways, they didn't really go into that much and that's like... a HUGE thing to just gloss over and not really bring up again lmaooo. 😭 i mean, i guess they couldn't really do much considering that alycia debnam-carey didn't wanna be on the show anymore until the finale, and tbf what could they really do bc it seems like alicia got the most perfect, lucky circumstances to survive, and also if they found a cure then the walker threat wouldn't really work that much anymore... lol. but still ??? wtf haha. but that's so cool that we now have a canon bite survivor! 🥳 (unless i missed something and alicia was sick with something else and not from the walker bite 🤔 my memory is awful so 😆) LMAO sorry for the rambling about this, i actually do find the virus aspect of this universe very interesting, i love whenever it's brought up. 😆

[byronlc]

Share at least 5 songs that you associate with or remind you of your muse! (multis pick a muse)

Trevor Anderson's playlist

Queens of the Stone Age – No One Knows

The Weeknd – The Hills

Bad Religion – Infected

Tool – Sober

Nine Inch Nails – Closer

Bush – Swallowed

Slipknot – Snuff

Funeral for a Friend – The End of Nothing

TAGGED BY: @roguexpogue

TAGGING: @sarcaasmic @entangledmuses @neverfittedin & @dcyswclking (for another ftwd muse) @ellyxyeur and who wants to do this!

[bedpissercastiel]

god 100% exists in the walking dead universe

[graskala]

The walking dead (in real life)

[pillowprincesslexa]

after analyzing this moment (link to gifset)

Me and @bellamynochillblake​ realized that first of all Alicia is holding the chord of a tow truck which she likely has to connect to something down the hill.

And second of all that (it looks  like) Althea and Strand are just watching her do her thing!!

They’re not jumping in to help. Alicia is killing multiple infected with only one hand available and obviously Strand and Althea know that it’s not a danger to her since they’re not helping.

Also Alicia could’ve easily dropped the chord but she just doesn’t give a shit and kills them with only one hand.

This is hot af and I’m really fucking proud of my babygirl

[mikeob]

Poster for ‘Fear the Walking Dead’ Season 4 for PosterSpy’s latest creative brief. @amc @amc-fearthewalkingdead

[afro-hispwriter]

MASTERLIST

Started- 07/10/21

Last updated- 09/29/22

*= smut

^=Request

Comment, dm, etc to join the taglist for Daryl and Alicia:)

My Wattpad- DarylDixontwdstuff

Requests closed

FEAR STEET

Cindy Berman

Cindy Berman x Fem reader *

Just hold me

Flustered^

The Jealous Berman*^

My pretty girl* ^

Cuddles^

Take it*

Outed^

Abigail Berman

Abigail Berman x Fem reader *

Caught*^

FTWD/TWD

Alicia Clark

Alicia Clark x Fem Dixon reader

You’re Mine

Right Here, Right Now^

Not Dying^

DIXON! READER

INFECTED(on hold)

DETAILS The Run(1) Tell me a story(2) Hope(3) West Virginia day 1(4) West Virginia day 2(5) Ohio Day 1(6)

DARYL DIXON X READER

Back Forever*

Face Riding*

Cooking*

In the Past

In the Past 2*

The Crossbow*

His Babygirl

Commonwealth*

Braids

Worlds Collide(Firefighter!Daryl x Doctor!Reader)*On going*

Ch.1 Ch.2 Ch.3 Ch.4

THE BATMAN(2022)

Bruce Wayne x black!f!reader

Future

Mommy*

Straight Away

Mystery Woman 2 3

Don’t Do That*

8 Letters

Bruce meets your family

Subspace*

Momma(Dick Grayson x mom reader!platonic)

Don’t Blame me, Love Made me Crazy

1 2 3

MARVEL

Adam Warlock

untitled

ACTORS

Norman Reedus

Baby*

Robert Pattinson

instagram au

pregnancy insta au

Will Poulter

Impressed

Stupid Photoshop

I loved him first

Bestfriends

Karen Troubles

Weed*

Instagram posts

OTHERS

The Dauphins Wife

[helloalycia]

Alicia Clark (FTWD) Masterlist

main masterlist / wattpad

helium

one-shot

summary: you and a friend happen to be exploring a joke shop and playing with helium balloons when you suddenly find yourself battling infected and being threatened by a teenager with a gun OR the one where you learn the hard way that convincing someone of your innocence is much more difficult when you sound like a chipmunk.

my responsibility

one | two | three | four

summary: when a stranger tries to break into your family’s home, you feel a moral obligation to help her out, but soon get given the responsibility to look out for her.

green-eyed monster

one | two

summary: you're living at the stadium and have befriended Alicia, but that friendship gets rocky when a new girl joins and Alicia doesn't trust her.

moving on

one | two | three | four | five | six

summary: desperate times call for desperate measures and you're forced to join a dangerous gang to keep you and you sister alive. But when you realise just how dangerous they are, you worry about what their influence can have on your sister.

the boy who cried wolf

one-shot

summary: when you piss off Alicia without meaning to, the only way to get her attention is to 'injure' yourself. Of course, everybody knows the story of the boy who cried wolf.

unrequited

one-shot

summary: after reuniting with Alicia after presuming her dead, you can’t help but think back to the last thing you said to her: that you’re in love with her.

the Clarks

one | two | three | four | five

summary: when you move next door to a new town, you don't expect to befriend the neighbours – the Clarks – so imagine your surprise when they become family, too.

the ranchers

one | two | three | four

summary: as tensions rise between your tribe at Black Hat and the Ottos at the ranch, you're certain the killing won't end. Of course, things start to change when the Clarks join the ranch, and one Clark in particular seems to be after the same thing as you: peace.

[sicarpenterart]

my entry for the Fear The Walking Dead creative brief run by Poster Spy

[popchoc]

WITH YOU I’M BORN AGAIN

Fandom: The 100 / FTWD / TWD

Main Characters: Clarke Griffin, Lexa i.e. Alicia Clark

Tags: Crossover | Adventure | Romance | Friendship | Family | Conflict | Plot Twists | Alternate Universe - Canon | Probably too much fluff for a zombie apocalypse | And yes most likely some adult cuddling too ;-)

Summary: A new planet brings new enemies, but help is just around the corner. “I told you I’ll always be with you.”

A The 100 / FTWD / TWD crossover, following two long lost lovers, together with their friends and foes.

CHAPTER 47 - LEXA | ALICIA

With my eyes glued to the blood on Clarke's fingers the world around me suddenly seems to have faded away. Has nightblood always seemed this thick, this black? Or is it because for the first time ever I'm looking at it through my mother's eyes?

"Alicia, step away from her."

Blinking as if to break a spell, I draw away my gaze from the blood and look at Mom.

"What?"

"Step away. Now!" she tells me again, this time with even more urge.

Mom's voice is as sharp as the knife she's pulling. When she points it at Clarke I can feel panic starting to raise all through my body.

"Mom, what- what are you doing?"

"Can't you see?" she cries out. "She's infected!"

Before her words are out she's already reaching for me with her free hand, trying to grab me, to pull me towards her. Yet all she finds is thin air as I quickly step aside.

"Alicia!"

"Mom, it's okay. She's okay!"

Shaking her head in disbelief she points at Clarke again. "No! No, she's... Look at her! Alicia, please. Please!"

Desperation colors her voice. It scares me, since fear might just be the worst possible counselor right now, but most of all it breaks my heart.

I step closer towards her, warily, and take her trembling hand in mine. When I slowly lead it away from Clarke, I watch how the other one clings to the handle of the knife - her knuckles white from squeezing.

"Clarke is fine," I try to reassure her again. "Trust me. She won't hurt any of us. She-"

"She's infected," Mom keeps insisting. "She knows she is and yet she didn't tell anyone. She's willingly bringing us all in danger." She turns to me, though making sure to keep Clarke within her eyesight. "She's bringing..." She swallows when her voice falters. "She's bringing you in danger."

[ full chapter on AO3 ]

[butmakeitgayblog]

They gave baby girl a prosthetic arm in the show coz she got bitten but it’s been months for her. I know jack shit about ftwd but watching twd for so long i know aint nobody can go survive that shit for months. She might make it. But then again this is just wishful thinking on my part smh

Her ass is dead bby I'm sorry lol. They're obviously gonna drag this shit out for ratings and all that but there's literally no way she can live through this. She's infected. She should be dead already according to their own show lore ffs!

Is it weird I still think she's pretty even tho she's all greasy and sweaty and like... half dead?👀

I'd still kith her 👀

[squeeetroythebadwolf]

Those zombies are just trying to peruse the huge selection of recreational vehicles looking for the fanciest one so they can cruise away in style

[twdmusicboxmystery]

FTWD 7x15: Amina - First Analysis

Okay, how did everyone like FTWD 7x15. There is SO much to unpack with this episode, so I might have a few posts this week that are just back and forth discussion. As always, I’ll discuss the biggest things that jumped out at me today, and then I’ll do Details and Discussions over the next day or two.

Me and my fellow theoriests often talk about how they seem to use Fear to sort of define the symbolism for us. What we mean by that is that where something is more subtle and nebulous in regular TWD, they just seem to be more literal and on-the-nose with it in Fear. So, Fear can help us better understand the symbolism in the main show. This episode was no exception.

***As always, spoilers abound below for this episode. Don’t read until you’ve watched!***

The first thing to talk about is the template for the missing 17 days from S5 and Beth’s story line. @galadrieljones first pointed this out to me. We think a lot of what happens here with Alicia is a clue as to what went down during the missing 17 days with Beth.

The first thing we see is Alicia being carried away from the tower. (I think we’re all on the same page that Strand’s tower represents Grady.) So, it's important that she's being carried away, she's injured, and it is the other people in TF that are carrying her. It occurred to me that Dwight standing over her was a little bit random. They could have picked anyone, but they picked Dwight. I wonder if he represents Daryl. We also see June. I don't know who she would represent. Carol or Rick maybe?

When Alicia wakes up on the beach, we hear June talk about saline and epinephrine to help her with the fever. I also thought the dialogue was interesting. Alicia asks, "where are we going?" June answers, "we don't know." I know in TWD S5, they went to take Noah home, but right after Beth got shot, they didn't really know where they were going. Taking him to Virginia was something that was decided after the fact.

Then, of course, Alicia sees a little girl and chases after her. The interesting thing is that no one from TF noticed Alicia leaving. They tell us this, because when we see her heading toward the tower with the gas mask on, we can hear Luci on the radio calling for her. Saying, "Alicia, where did you go? Tell us where you are." That's a parallel to Beth's body disappearing. Like, you can imagine TF saying this about Beth. Where did she go? Tell us where she is.

Then Alicia passes out and wakes up in the MRAP. She asked the little girl, "what's your name?" The little girl doesn't give it there, but it's a parallel to Beth being asked if she remembers her name when she woke up at Grady. The other thing I thought was interesting here is that the little girl comments on the fever. When Alicia says she’s looking for fever reducers, the little girl says, "isn't the fever what's going to kill the infection?"

The little girl is actually right about that, but I felt like it was purposeful. They're trying to make us think about the fever versus the infection. At first, I wasn’t sure what she was getting at. Upon rewatching, and talking to my fellow theorists, I think the point may be that because Alicia didn’t find any medicine or fever reducers, that’s how she kicked the fever.

I’ll talk more about whether Alicia is alive in a minute. For now, overall, we think she is. Which means she triumphed over the fever. That’s SUPER significant, guys. It pretty much confirms the bite/cure theories, and that someone can be bitten and still survive. Which means Beth could have been.

But again, I think because she didn’t do anything to bring down the fever—except drink water, which is also super significant and I’ll talk more about that in the next day or two—and the fever got so high that she passed out on the beach, that’s actually how she beat it. He fever raged high enough to kill the infection, but not to actually kill her. And obviously that’s not always how it happens. Usually, people are bitten and their fever can’t beat the infection. It gets higher and higher until it starts to cook their brains and then their hearts stop.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if they ever give us a scientific explanation for it. But that’s where our thoughts are for now.

When she was out with little girl, she tries to kill a particular walker that looks like it has some sort of diamond-shaped fencing on it. She falls down trying to kill it and the little girl kills with the hammer. I'm not sure what the fencing is. It doesn't quite look like chain-link, but it's too thick to be barbed wire. Anyway, I felt like the diamond shapes were important.

I almost feel like diamond-shaped might represent something that was a character is struggling with. We often see them in the background behind characters that are really going through something. Obviously, we’ve seen them a lot around Beth and Rick, but we’ve also seen them around Rosita and Aaron, to name a few, during times when they were struggling with things. Just a thought.

And in this case, the fact that Alicia is trying to kill it but can't suggests some sort of inner struggle she's wrestling with.

The next really interesting line that I noticed is that when we reach the perimeter of the tower, Alicia tries to get the little girl to go back to the beach with her. The little girl refuses. Alicia says at one point, "if I go with you, we both die." The little girl replies, "I'll die if we stay out here." And Alicia asks, "what does that mean?" The little girl simply says, "you know exactly what that means." But it never specifies what they're talking about here.

The ‘I'll die if we stay out here’ reminded me of the Daryl and Buttons story arc. The fact that they can be out there too long, or they lose their humanity. I'm pretty sure this is what the little girl is talking about, and I'll come back to why I think that.

The showrunner also said at the end that every time Alicia exerts herself physically, the fever gets worse. And this is when she passes out. But to me, it almost seems like it's every time she starts killing walkers. And I think that symbolic of her fighting against her own nature. Being warlike instead of merciful. Not that she shouldn’t kill the walkers to defend herself. It’s just symbolic of what she’s struggling with psychologically, rather than physically.

The next point to make in the template is that Alicia ends up back at the tower. We believe that Beth ended up back at Grady. And we’ve seen this with other character arcs as well. The one that jumps to mind for me is Glenn in S4. He was on the bus when Maggie last saw him. When the bus took off, she assumed he was on it. Therefore, she went looking for him on the bus. But he wasn’t on the bus at all. He was back at the prison, where they’d originally been and where she assumed he'd gone away from.

I think that's a template for what will happen with Beth. They took her away from Grady and when she disappears, it doesn't even occur to them that she might be back at Grady. But that's exactly where she's at. It also goes along with the template we noticed around the reapers this past season. Looking for someone in the wrong place. Looking for Maggie in the yellow house, when really, she was in the green house.

Let's talk about what Alicia and the little girl represent. I wanted to try to figure out a way to explain how they each represent Beth, because obviously they both do in various ways. But the little girl, during her conversation with Alicia in the tower, actually lays it out pretty well for us.

The little girl says that Madison didn't die so that Alicia could defeat Strand. She died so that the part of Alicia but doesn't give up on people would live. Then she says, "I'm still in you. But you're the only one who can make sure this is the end for me."

So overall, what I'm getting is that Alicia as herself represents the negative mindset. She's in a harsh, unforgiving, violent, selfish mindset. I don't mean that in a critical way. It's just something she's going through. Very similar to what we've seen Rick in the past not being merciful, or Daryl being vengeful during AOW. Alicia has become harsh and unforgiving. And that's not that's just not the healthiest place to be. The physical representation of this is the fever and how sick she's become. But there's a psychological issue going on here as well.

I don't think anyone would fault Alicia for wanting to take out Strand, given how villainous he's become. But whether Strand deserves it or not is not the point. It's all about her, as the little girl keeps saying. It's about Alicia's own soul, and humanity.

So, the little girl represents that more kind, merciful, part of her that doesn't give up on people. Basically, the essence of who Beth was. The person who saves people and is optimistic, has faith, believes having humanity matters, etc. That’s why she says that if they stay out there, she’ll die. It’s Alicia’s humanity that will die if she doesn’t go save Strand, despite all he’s done.

(It looks like they’ll be giving Strand a redemption arc, much as they have with Negan in the flagship show.)

We also hear Madison say something similar on the tape: that Alicia’s kind nature is getting less and less with each passing day they’re out there. Alicia’s humanity is dying, and this is about her saving herself. Her own soul.

So, I absolutely think this is a template for the missing 17 days. I think it's also a foreshadow of stuff we haven't seen yet. For a long time, I've had something of a head cannon that maybe Beth wakes up without TF, and somehow, for some reason, believes they’re dead. It would just make sense that she would think Daryl is dead because he thinks she is dead. And their arcs very much mirror one another.

Anyway, she would probably go through a period of extreme darkness if she believed that. I believe this is what this episode is telling us about Beth's arc. She'll go through a period of extreme darkness where shall become kind of dark and vengeful, very unlike herself. But she'll need to emotionally save the person that she always was and go back to being that person. As she told Daryl, she needs to stay who she is, not who she was.

The fact that TF leaves Alicia behind at the end, and goes off without her, also is part of the template for the missing 17 days. We even see Alicia wake up and observe that they’re gone, and she is alone. Alicia then goes back to the tower to try and help anyone she can who might show up there.

I kind of think that at some point Beth will choose to remain within the CRM to try and help bring people out of it or try to help the good people who are inside of it. It's what her conscience will demand once she chooses to be the person she always was.

At the end, when the little girl shows she has no bite, she says, “it means you saved me.” Meaning, Alicia saved the good, optimistic part of herself. And that’s when the fever goes away. Because she was true to herself and saved her own humanity.

It's interesting, because it means that the physical bite also represents an internal wound. I've never thought of it that way before. I wonder if with everyone on the show who gets bitten, the writers are always thinking that of that as a physical representation of the spiritual. And remember that in 9×05, we heard Beth’s voice say, "what your wound?" When Morgan first said that to Rick in S1, he was talking about a physical wound. Rick had a fever and Morgan wanted to know if he’d been bitten.

But when we hear it over and over again in 9x05, before Jadis takes Rick into the CRM, it’s talking about emotional/psychological wounds. And in this show, those wounds always result from separation from family. Which is why we hear that before Rick is separated from Michonne and the kids, and why the last thing he says before he blows up the bridge is, “I found them.”

Some other, smaller things that back this all up:

It’s the little girl, rather than Alicia, who breaks the window. Her faith filled, optimistic self is stronger than she is. Her more negative, vengeful self didn’t have the strength to break the glass. At the end, the showrunner said Alicia needed to save the part of her who would give someone who is beyond a hope a second chance. That just screams Beth.

And kind of answers a question my fellow theorists and I have discussed before about whether Beth would give Negan a second chance, even after learning he killed Glenn. I already mentioned how they’re doing something similar with Strand that they did with Negan. Made him do really despicable things, including murder, etc. And something about him may lead to Madison (Alicia’s subconscious kept saying he knew where it was and could get them there). So, something about Negan could still tie into Beth’s arc.

The showrunner said this part of Alicia is the belief that there can be good in people. Again, an echo of Beth’s “there are still good people, Daryl.” And then he compared it to Madison’s “No one’s gone until they’re gone.” So, we have the showrunner basically admitting there’s a tie between Beth and Madison’s characters. And now Madison is returning.

Another point they made is that, even if they die, even if Alicia died, she could live on by saving others who don’t necessarily deserve it. I think that’s a huge theme for the entire show. Self-sacrifice is relatively easy when it’s someone you love. But saving a villain or enemy is another game entirely. Carl died saving Siddiq. Rick spared Negan to honor him, etc.

Speaking of Carl. This is just a small digression, but I had the thought that they openly talked about Madison in this episode and showed flashbacks. And it’s obvious that Alicia’s entire arc, all of her motivations since Madison disappeared at the stadium, has been trying to make sure her mother’s sacrifice meant something. But they haven’t really talked about it much until now. I’m sure they mentioned it a time or two, but it’s not like she’s said that every episode for 3 years.

It just made me think of Carl and how they didn’t really talk about him killing that kid in S3 very much. They talked about it right after it happened, and then it was mentioned in one of the flashbacks in 4x16, but I don’t think it’s been talked about since.

So, my thought was just that this is how the TWD writers do things. They aren’t obvious about the character motivations until the end of the arc. Only then will they be much more clear about telling us what they were all along. I’m sure if we rewatched and traced Carl’s arc as closely as we do Beth and Daryl’s, we would been able to discern the path clearly. But they didn’t actually give us the key to understanding it until he was dying.

So, just an observation about how the writers operate. And we can apply that to why they talk about Beth so little. They don’t want to openly say that everything Daryl does is tied to him losing Beth. But I bet when she returns, they’ll say something obvious about it. Just as they did with Carl, and here with Alicia.

Next thing I want to talk about is how I believe the episode is trying to clarify several symbols for us. First, is the bird. Of course, we talked a lot about how the bird represents something that is trapped wants to be free, and we saw this very obviously this episode. But from a metaphysical standpoint, I think the bird represents the character's true self. Their good, merciful, optimistic self, which is so often trapped by the violence and the death that is constantly around them in this world. And that's why so many "good" characters who act as moral compasses for the group die. Once they let go of the violence and all the negativity of the world, it sort of sets their spirits free, and they passed away on the show.

(I’ll just take a moment to preach to the choir by pointing out that this was not where Beth was in Coda. If anything, she embraced violence in that moment because she stabbed Dawn. So, the formula for the character arc doesn't apply to her.)

Rewatching the episode, the bird also represents who the person is supposed to save. This will make a lot more sense for Beth when 7x16 airs next week. But if you think about it, Alicia freeing the bird from the tower was a mini-foreshadow for the end of the episode. She made it possible for the bird to fly free and escape its imprisonment in the tower, where it would inevitably have died. But she didn’t go with it. It flew away without her. While she did end up on the beach at sometime, she still went back to the tower.

At the end, TF sailed away without her. So, she made it possible for them to escape, but didn’t go with them. And of course, this is also what happened with Beth. We don’t know exactly how she would have made it possible for them to escape, but something about what happened there (still very mysterious) did. But they left without her. She didn’t go with them.

And this is yet another way this episode with Alicia mirrors Beth. TF left Beth behind. When she woke up, they were gone. Onto other places and homes and adventures, but without her.

I also thought about the beach symbol a little bit. I believe one thing the beach represents is peace. If you think back to Abraham's famous line from Sasha's flashback in S7, he said, "Alpha to Omega, battlefield to beach." (I hope I got that right.) Alpha and Omega are opposites, which suggests the battlefield and beach are opposites. So, the beach represents peace of some kind.

And that works well with what happens here with Alicia. They all find a little bit of peace on the beach, at least from Strand and the tower and walkers. They just have to set sail immediately so they can't stay for long. But I think that's part of the beach too. It's a launching pad for the next leg of the journey. But when Alicia wakes up on the beach, there's definitely a heaven vibe going on. No fever, the bird landing beside her. The beach is very peaceful.

I also thought a little bit about what the roof of the tower represents. Watching these past few episodes, it’s occurred to me that there's a motif about pushing toward the roof for some reason.

And I'm sure there are other instances we could look at, but there's four that came to mind. Obviously, we have the roof of Strand’s tower. A lot of stuff happened there throughout the arc, but last episode, they were pushing toward the roof in order to turn off the beacon. The reason for that is that it was specifically calling the dead. So, they wanted to turn it off. That's important.

In this episode, Alicia goes to the roof several times looking for the little girl. What I noticed is that, even though the tower was burning, and the fire started on the roof last episode, somehow, none of the roof was burned. There's a lot of smoke, and maybe even some damage, but we saw a lot of green plants still growing up there that hadn't been touched by fire.

Last week the show runner also mentioned the tower arc for Al and Dwight's episode last season. In that case, they made push for the roof as well, and once there, Al sent a message to Isobel, who was in her helicopter. Here in this arc with Alicia and Strand, the roof was also where Alicia sent a message. 

So, these two roof tops had that in common. But not all of them do. We didn't see a specific push for the rooftop at Grady, but we did see Beth go up there with Edwards at least once. We didn't see any messages being sent from there, but I imagine that if Grady was in communication with the CRM, they would probably have been sending messages from the roof, simply because that is how they could broadcast the farthest. There might be some messaging going on there that we just are privy to yet.

The last rooftop that I considered was from S1. When they go back for Merle, there's a very obvious push for them to get up to the roof. The camera literally shows them running as fast as they can up the stairwell. Of course, there's no message here, and not necessarily any greenery. This is where they discover that Merle is gone, he left his hand behind, and we see Daryl’s first real meltdown of the series.

So, while I saw some similarities, not all of them are present across the board, so I wasn't entirely sure what to make of that. But re-watching the episode, I came up with something. I noticed that when Alicia was trying to talk to the little girl on the walkie, she was sitting on the stairs. 

And what we've been saying about stairs and elevators came to mind. Traveling between the realms of the living and the dead. When Beth and Noah tried to escape, they went to the basement, and there were tons of walkers down there. 

So, the basement or ground floor, I believe, represents the realms of the dead. (And that's not true for every location in the show. It specifically around the tower motif.) We saw walkers around Strand’s tower, we saw them in the basement of Grady. I can't remember for sure, but I think there were probably walkers on the ground floor in Al and Dwight’s episode, and we know that there were some in the mall where Merle was left. So, the ground floor represents the land of the dead.

Which means, the roof represents the land of the living. That actually does make sense across the board. When they send a message, they’re contacting the living. Green things growing up there represents the living. And even with Merle, it showed that he didn't lay down and succumb to dehydration. He did what he needed to do—brutal though it was—to make sure he would survive, and then he took off. So, he was still alive somewhere.

And actually, someone NOT being there represents life. Because otherwise, there would be a dead body. This is also why them turning off the beacon that is calling the dead is significant. They went to the realms of the living (the roof) to stave off the coming of the dead. Not even really relating that to anything TD. Just something that I was thinking about.

Oh, and the bird flies up the staircase toward the roof. Obviously, the bird is something that wants to be free, and were seeing it fly up toward the land of the living.

The last thing I wanted to touch on was something that the showrunner said at the end. He said the end was a reawakening of Alicia. It was like a new world of newfound strength. Obviously, we think that will be the case with Beth too. She’ll return stronger and be able to do more good. But the reawakening also shows that it was something of a resurrection, which is another thing that points to her being alive.

I also had a thought about the people in the opening credits of Fear. Last week, I commented on the fact that it was Wes. It seemed an odd choice at first, since the episode focused so heavily and Alicia and Strand. But then, Wes died. They obviously were hinting that this was an important episode for him.

Then, in this episode, it wasn't Alicia herself in the opening credits. It was the little girl. Her subconscious. And the little girl was saved by the end, though she kept telling Alicia she might die if Alicia didn't save her.

So, I think the person it shows in the opening credits is always on the chopping block. They might live, they might die, but the point is their life hangs in the balance in this episode, either literally or figuratively. I think that's usually obvious since the episode tends to focus around one particular character, and they're usually the ones featured in the OCs. But, just another, more nuanced way to look at it.

I’ll stop there for today. More discussion to come!

[lexasupremacy]

🚩🚩🚩🚩FTWD SPOILERS🚩🚩🚩🚩

I’m so glad Madison is coming back!!! It does make me a bit nervous though and I hope they’re not bringing her back to replace Alicia as an original character and a strong female lead, especially considering Alicia’s mysterious walker infection. Plus the show runners know they need at least one of those characters to keep people watching because let’s be honest, without them it sucks. So if they kill off Alicia, they would need Madison. It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if they do all this and have her come back just in time for Alicia to die right after they’re reunited, or have Madison show up just too late like with Daniel and Ofelia. Just let them be together and happy and healthy!! I guess we never know and maybe they’ll get a happy ending. After all, they did listen to us and they’re giving us Madison back🤞 I just really hope her and Alicia get to be together, they could actually make this show good again

[commanderlexaofthegrounders]

Is it still up in the air about whether or not Alicia is going to die on FTWD? I thought she cut off her arm because she was bitten, got a prosthetic (btw, wtF is up with keeping the decomposing arm as a prosthetic?!) and now she was good to go? But I’ve seen fans debating on instagram about her fate so I am confused. I don’t watch the show and feedback of it so far has not made me enthusiastic about starting. 😅 I’m just here for ADC. 🤷‍♀️

Yup, and ofc the clowns won't disclose anything, however, we gotta assume the worst case scenario. Friend, if you wanna watch Fear just check S1-S3 where there was a clear story and you can see the Clarks at their best. S4-S7 are a disaster with ridiculous villains and Boregan every fucking episode, while the rest of the OGs get scraps.

Now let's see what is the current info we have:

First of all, announcing Kim being back? That is highly sus. We know that the Clarks are supposed to be the center of this show, but with the two idiots, that stopped being true. They hated Madison and got rid of her to put Boregan as the lead of the show.

Second, ADC has been getting nothing to work with and the script she gets is atrocious. One episode per season is what she's been getting and considering she is second in the roll call?? It's shitty af so I totally support her not renewing her contract with AMC and leaving that mess at the end of S7. Whether alive or dead we have to find out.

Third, if Alycia leaves then the clowns have Kim back, after they thought their brilliant idea of killing her off screen was great, now they backtracking because they in trouble.

Conclusion: There are some possible outcomes.

1. Madison and Alicia find each other, only for Madison to lose the last offspring she had. Madison takes Alicia's post in the Boregan show.

2. Madison and Alicia reunite, but like S3 Alicia chooses to forge her own path seeing she believes she is still infected and dying, so she leaves everyone behind and we don't know if she makes it or not, leaving open the possibility of Alicia Clark coming back down the road.

3. Alicia never finds Madison and leaves in search of Padre or whatever nonsense she is doing and Madison enters as her replacement in terms of role as the last Clark standing.

4. Madison and Alicia reunite, Alicia is healthy and continues her search for a safe heaven along her mother. But I doubt this one, because the two clowns hate women, specially the Clark women and they won't stop shoving Boregan down our throats. And now ADC sharing screen with these people won't leave her basically any screentime at all lbh.

That's the gist of it, Anon.