#incest TW

[ghouljams]

Ah dammit. Fauxcest cw

Becoming part of the 141 and you're so worried about how they'll treat you, you know how women in the military are pushed around and you refuse to let that happen to you. Except they're so welcoming and kind, escorting you around the base and introducing you proudly as the newest member of the team. They share jokes with you and crowd around you in the scran hall to make sure no one bothers you. They treat you like a brother- no like a sister, Soap even jokes about it.

"Nice havin' a little sister, eh Ghost?" He says with a wink as Ghost checks over his rifle. Never getting more than a grunt in reply.

You carry it like a badge of honor. Call your comrades your brothers, joke with them about Price acting like a father. Never seeing the hungry looks they fix you with when you turn away. Never knowing just how badly they want to put their "sister" on her knees, and coo at her that this is just what big brothers do. You want to be good for them don't you? Then be a good girl and let your new found family stretch your holes.

[spn2006]

i bring a real "this piece of media has incest subtext that you're ignoring" vibe to the function that nobody really likes

[patricia-taxxon]

oh no

[tf2heritageposts]

abuse in families isn’t always physical it can also be

- verbal (insulting language, demeaning or putting you down, cursing at you, screaming, etc)

- emotional (manipulation, fake crying, trying to convince you you’re wrong/crazy, telling you you aren’t owed anything including food water shelter love privacy etc)

- financial (stealing money, continually begging for money from you even if you don’t have any, telling you you don’t deserve money you earned yourself)

- sexual ( raping you, forcing you to undress for them, forcing you to let them watch you bathe/bathe you, touching you in inappropriate ways, forcing you to watch sexual activity, taking photos of you nude without your consent, etc)

if anyone tags this as “narc abuse” i’m going to fucking kill you

[sickness-stricken]

Alright folks, place your bets, is the book in this screen grab in the newest Lily Orchard video about incest?

DING DING DING DING DING

I’m pretty sure even people who ADMIT to having incest kinks don’t have this much of an internal catalogue of pieces of media that have incest in them good fucking LORD

[frownyalfred]

Can I get clarification on your pro shipping post? The example you gave was a 20 year old with a 40 year old, and that's "problematic" (not really), but not really what I think of when I hear "pro shipping". Usually it's the shipping of minor/adult or incestuous relationships that I see getting defended. Does being against fictional works/ships that depict pedophilic or incestuous relationships as normal/romantic count as puritanism to you? Do you see the ship of Bruce Wayne/Damian Wayne as a personal preference with no moral implications?

I think there's a huge difference between being personally against something, and wanting to shame others or ban others from reading or writing something. The Puritanism comes from wanting to limit and ostracize others who don't share your beliefs. It comes from believing that your perspective is the only morally right one.

I think there will always be people who want to write or read about ships like that, yeah -- incest, pseudo-incest, everything in between. By moral implications, do you mean for the person interested in the ship? Or do you mean for others? Because I see that concern a lot on here -- this idea that somehow, by wanting to read/write about something, people are either 1) harming others by spreading this morally wrong ship or 2) harming themselves by normalizing the ship, and therefore making it more likely that they'll pursue similar relationships in their real lives.

We don't have much evidence for either of those claims. People have been clutching their pearls and wringing their hands over "morally wrong" books for ages -- and yet, Game of Thrones is still available in every bookstore. Am I a bad or woefully misguided person for having read Lolita in high school? Is a 16 year old reading a Bruce/Damian fic likely to turn around, shrug, and say "guess fucking my Dad is okay now"? Did an entire generation of fans shipping Wincest somehow have lasting, moral effects? I really don't think so. Not at the scale anti-shippers online seem to think, at least.

I think we need to separate how we moralize people from the content that they consume. And acknowledge that shaming and excluding people for wanting to read something doesn't exactly do much to prevent "moral implications." There's also a huge difference between reading a book, and endorsing the ideas/events inside of it. Same things with fics.

Anti-shipping is very appealing to people because it purports to protect people from harm. Until you look a little closer, and you realize that that protection comes at the expense of free expression, creative license, and agency to choose what we personally do and do not consume. And that that protection isn't really airtight out of your anti-shipping discord or tumblr community.

I think the best we can do is let people write and read what they want -- whatever they want, with limited warnings/etc like ao3 employs -- and ensure that those pieces of content are tagged, warned, and displayed accurately. We need to understand that the only control we have is over ourselves, and what we choose personally to consume or not consume.

I don't generally read those fics you mentioned, but I'm not saying they should be banned from ao3. Just because I might possibly think they're wrong or gross doesn't mean I think the person who wrote them is wrong or gross, either. The more we go down that moral slip and slide, like I said in my previous post, the worse off we will all become.

[hellspawnmotel]

Nah kralsei is weird because ralsei is obviously an anagram of asriel and that's kris's sibling 😭 like...he obviously represents asriel in many ways so it's just weird. Like... yeah

I agree, it is weird! it's weird to look at as an audience. but it is THERE. I think it's pretty undeniable that ralsei has some sort of crush on kris, he's so blatant about it. "are you proposing?" he asks. and there's the whole acid tunnel of love scene. like, it's literally a tunnel of love. ralsei is being set up as kris's love interest, by the narrative or by ralsei himself, if those two are even different things, we dont know yet. or maybe ralsei is in love with us, the player, and using kris as a proxy. that would still be weird though! whatever the case though like, it's there. it's there and it's extremely intentional.

to be clear I'm not saying all this bc I "ship" kralsei or think it's endgame or whatever. I'm not coming at this from a fandom or discourse angle at all. but I do think it's necessary to acknowledge what's being imparted to us by the text, which is both that it's there AND it's weird. if it's making you uncomfortable it's probably on purpose, because the story is trying to tell you something. this is especially important with something like deltarune because it's being set up (from my angle, at least) that the narrative ITSELF is a character and it wants you to question why things are happening the way they are. why is kris being set up with somebody who looks like their brother? why is ralsei in love with kris? if ralsei ISN'T in love with kris, why is he acting like he is? what is ralsei, and what circumstances made him this way? you can't just say "that's gross, don't look at that" and turn away in a situation like this. even if it makes you too uncomfortable to do so, you gotta at least let other people analyze why it's happening and what it means.

er, all this to say, whether anybody ships kralsei sincerely or thinks it's nasty or whatever, I don't really care. I just think it's really interesting as a part of the story lol. you don't like thinking about it, that's fine, I don't blame you, but I don't think it's fair to tell people to not engage with it when it's begging to be engaged with.

[hotwaterandmilk]

The Wedding Peach PC-98VX game was released in 1996 and features an original story played out using card battling mechanics. The game draws its visuals from the animated series thanks to designs by Watanabe Mayumi and features 11 different seiyuu (including all the anime leads reprising their roles).

I haven't talked about this game in any detail before, but today I was re-scanning all its packaging in 1200 dpi and thought why not give it a bit of a summary and a ramble?

Dark Angels

The two original characters on the cover of the game (above) are the Kuroba siblings, Valzov and Neana, who have been charged by Reine Devila to defeat the loves angels on Earth. The Kuroba are from a much maligned devil clan, treated differently because they have similar wings to angels, albeit in a dual white/black colouring.

Because the Kuroba clan have never been truly accepted by other devils, they rely only on one another and have an extremely deep familial bond. Despite the mission posing a significant personal risk, Valzov (as the head of the family) takes it on, believing that defeating the love angels will allow his clan to finally be seen as true devils.

Neana, valuing her brother with a possessiveness that goes beyond that of a sibling, heads to Earth with him to find the love angels. Following a lead they find early on in the game, Valzov and Neana begin attending Saint Hanazono as transfer students (Tooru and Nina) in the hopes of finding and destroying the love angels once and for all.

Of course the love angels aren't just going to accept being challenged by a whole clan of devils (including Kuroba compatriotes Miligal, Entran, Julad and Swyswi). Through the eyes of Momoko, Yuri and Hinagiku the player has to figure out what these "Dark Angels" are up to and challenge them via card battles (which allow you to unleash familiar attacks as you gain the upper hand).

Why talk about this game?

The Wedding Peach PC-98VX game is the only Wedding Peach video game with narrative emphasis, playing out like an extra anime arc complete with music, voices and visuals that could have been lifted straight from the television series. It is also the only Wedding Peach game that gives us something genuinely unique with the Kuroba clan.

The Kuroba have struggled in the devil world because of how they look. Their devil peers see them as not being true devils because they have wings that look almost angelic. The love angels also notice this, hence the moniker of "Dark Angels" (straight up "Yami Tenshi").

We discover by the end of the game that the unique wings all Kuroba clan members have in some capacity are likely angelic in origin. Limone speculates that the Kuroba clan are descended from angels who fell into the devil world long ago.

However, Neana has the capacity to project a powerful love wave in the battle's climax which devils can't do. This leads Limone to clarify that Neana has primarily angel DNA (literally "tenshi no DNA"). He believes she was an angel who lost her life in battle before being reincarnated in the devil world (that isn't how DNA works but OK). Neana was reborn as a devil to be alongside Valzov, essentially, as an angel can only reincarnate "where there is love".

It isn't explained how Limone concludes any of this, except that he "checked their DNA" though we don't see or hear him doing that so it really seems to be based on vibes and perhaps angel eugenics who knows. While everyone was kind of weirded out by how close the siblings were earlier in the game, in the end everyone just kind of shrugs about it so I'm not sure where incest falls on the "love" scale here.

Regardless, Neana's existence shows us that at least in this version of the franchise, it is possible for individuals to reincarnate into the devil world. This is not shown anywhere else in the media mix and it underscores just how similar all the worlds really are.

It's also interesting that the Kuroba (angels who fell and assimilated into the devil world) must follow Devila's orders to try to shed their poor reputation, when in the anime (which the game draws from) Devila herself is secretly an angel who was consumed by her own darkness and found herself suited to life in the devil world.

Anyway, it's not a life-changing game by any means but it is the one Wedding Peach game that tries something different and that's worth noting if nothing else. I'll be honest I haven't played it in yeaaaaaaaaaars so I might not be entirely on the mark with all my recollections, but I did flip through the manual again and it was a real trip down memory lane.

Unrelated to any of the above, my favourite part in the character book bundled with the game? Salvia's profile stating "She is a reticent and nihilistic girl."

👑 Yes queen, life is meaningless! All values are baseless and nothing can be known or communicated! Give 'em nothing! 👑

[reverie-st4rz]

[diorstarr]

shadow of a doubt // managing monsters, marina warner

[saintshigaraki]

oliver sees a pathetic dysfunctional wet cat reader and goes is anyone else going to take on a weird father like role in their life or do i have to and doesn’t wait for an answer before spiriting u away

[nerves-nebula]

finished product of that poll i held. enjoy.

[lollytea]

My poorly made masterpiece

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

Tbh i think c//a wont have this incest problem if they are raised by different parent figures but it wont rlly change the fact that their relationship is prolly the same but idk why nd made them raised by sw which makes it 😬

yeah. like a lot of people suggested, adora could have been raised by hordak while catra would be raised by shadow weaver. it seems that adora and hordak already had a sort of father-daughter relationship in the original series.

it would have been interesting if both catra and adora were skilled soldiers who saw each other as rivals, but adora got more opportunities because she was hordak's daughter. and this is what makes catra bitter towards her, because she feels like she's being treated unfairly and shadow weaver also punishes (i.e. abuses) her whenever she doesn't get an opportunity she's been working for.

this would be what drives catra and adora away from each other. when adora leaves the horde, catra sees this as an opportunity to finally prove herself to hordak. and the story continues the same, just without the weird implications.

there was potential here for a healthier, non-incest dynamic with the same amount of complexity and drama.

[pawberri]

This may be odd, but as a kinky individual who is constantly curious on other kinks, and others opinions/values, how do you feel about fauxcest?

I’m not into it personally, but I like hearing other people’s opinions on any and all kinks. I’ve been seeing it on the tl some recently and I’m not too sure how I should feel.

Incest tw

Its a nuanced question that basically entirely depends on context to me... like I respect it as a kink between adults, your private sex life isn't anyones business and if you're being a responsible & looking after u and ur partner thats fine. Afaik most therapist support that it can be therapeutic for survivors. I am even in theory fine with people like running blogs where they talk about it if they moderate it and such. But I think making art about it (even or especially horny art) is like supremely difficult to do well at best. It takes a lot of thought and care. Which is why I find it un-ideal that it's so popular with really reactionary people who hate tagging and trigger warning and believing art has implications and stuff. This also is inconvenient for me as someone who gets PTSD from like specifically online incest content lol

But it does feel like it's 50 different topics with a lot of different outcomes... like there's trans girl survivors coping and doing their best to be responsible or just making slight mistakes and getting the brunt of online hate VS like 4channers who straight up make memes mocking the idea of having a little sister who hates being abused and collectively egg each other on to become fucking Kaliacc nazi groomers VS the mainstream porn that's not interested in abuse as a real thing or a real issue and just wants a cheap thrill VS joseimuke gacha games baiting sibling couples for fujoshi money harder than other ships but also not gafing abt abuse VS people calling hot people mommy or daddy . All of these warrant their own essays to me because they're all communicating completely different things

Basically I'm glad we're transitioning into an era where the people who like it actually think about it and the implications of it unlike when I was a kid where the norm in fandom was just to introduce kids to random incest ships and not gaf about anything ever . Please please please warn for it tho. Why is it the thing people get mad at u for asking to warn 😭💔

[cripplecharacters]

Not a question. I think you would appreciate the sentiment about facial differences here

https://www.tumblr.com/bonefall/752586923042914304/the-warriors-fandom-for-years-isnt-it-fucked-how (link id: a Tumblr post by bonefall, criticizing how people treat facial differences in the Warrior cat fandom)

taking a quote from the post:

(quote)

“suddenly it is acceptable to make jokes about ickygross deformed babies when the child is a product of incest. As if the child has any control at all over the circumstances of their birth. Like it makes it OK and funny to mock someone's health and appearance if it's from something that invokes disgust.”

(end quote)

Hello,

(Link to the post.) [Edit, link has been fixed]

Literally. Fictional characters with facial differences already get generally poor representation, but characters with facial differences because they were born from incest? They're treated horrifically, both by the writer and the audience. Why can't that instead be something that just gets mentioned briefly and then everyone moves on without making a huge deal of it? I've seen this "reveal" happen before in real life. Not only did those of us who heard it collectively decide that we weren't going to mention it to the person in question because that was probably a very hard situation to have been in, but the person who was told us that information was told not to gossip because she was making fun of another human being's personal medical history.

I believe that people who were born in those circumstances in real life deserve to see good fictional representation of themselves in media. But they aren't getting it and I really wish they were.

The character had no choice in the matter. We, however, have a choice. We can either perpetuate the stigma that harms real people by making everyone think it's okay to be cruel to them for things they had no say in, or we can write characters who mind their own business about this stuff and treating the other character like a person and thus start normalizing the idea that these people are just people.

Why do they always have to be the object of pity and ridicule? Why are they treated as subhuman? Why can't one of these characters be the main character, the love interest, the teacher, the best friend, the superhero? Why aren't these characters allowed to have lives? Why can they only be allowed to fill two tiny, narrowly-defined boxes when people who have these conditions can fill hundreds more? Write that story. I take asks on it.

Mod Aaron