#in this house we hate romantic stancy

[love-byers]

mike's weird language when he talks about el and their relationship

part of the equation of stranger things relationships is building the relationship through emotional connection, not physical intimacy and outright saying how you feel. it's a trope in st that the couples refuse to admit their feelings for some time before getting together. "we're just friends", "she's not my girlfriend" etc etc. the denial is super endearing. and even when the couples are finally together, this doesn't change. they're literally just the same duo same friends, but they kiss sometimes. they barely even acknowledge that they're together. it's a great trope in my opinion.

so a couple years ago i was rewatching st and made a list of everytime mike said something weird. meaning, every time mike did not adhere to this formula and stood out from the rest of the couples. i made a tiktok about it too so im basically quoting that in this post. something i stressed in that video was that because we have the other couples as source material, clearly the writers are capable of not doing this. they are capable of writing a good serious relationship, but they're choosing not to with mlvn. so keep in mind, the other couples (besides maybe stancy) do not do this and mike is supposedly, according to his own words, is madly and deeply in love with her throughout all of this and knows it.

Season 3

"Romantic time with my girlfriend."

i'll cut this one some slack, it's just that if you were truly madly in love it would be more like "I'm spending time with el". but thats all he views it as, romantic time with his girlfriend. going to his girlfriends house to make out with her. romantic time with his girlfriend. not bonding with the person he loves.

"Did you think we were never gonna get girlfriends?"

mike is hyperfocused on the word girlfriend. she's not el, the person he loves, she's his girlfriend. he doesn't say "did you think we were never gonna fall in love?" and look i get he's only like 14 here but it's the fact that he later claims he was in love with her the entire time and knew it. he literally claims it was love at first sight.

get girlfriends. he got a girlfriend. he didn't fall in love.

"It's not my fault you don't like girls!"

again the hyperfixation on girls, get a girlfriend, liking girls. mike, why are you more focused on the fact that el is a girl and your girlfriend than the fact that she's el?

"You're the most important thing to me in the world."

finn's delivery of this is so.....

and the fact that el just stares at him blankly afterwards, like she did not buy that lmao

Season 4

"That's because she's my girlfriend, Will!"

it's not "that's because i love her and want to talk to her" or something like that, it's "thats because she's my girlfriend and that's what you're supposed to do when you have a girlfriend" not "because she's el and i love her". that plays into mike's whole charade in lenora, he's just doing things he thinks he's supposed to do when you have a girlfriend.

"You're a superhero!"

that has nothing to do with who el is as a person, especially at that moment because at that time, el didn't have her powers. at the time, everyone believed they were gone, she wouldn't be saving the world anymore. but mike is still saying how incredible she is because she's a superhero.

i hate dr brenner so fucking much, but he did say something i really agree with. el kept going back to the concept monsters and heros, and he says those are things of myth and fairytale. not everything is black and white. this is real life, not a made up story with clear good and evil. and ultimately that helps her accept what happened with 001. he was 100% right there.

then here comes mike talking about monsters and superheros again like WRAP IT UP YA'LL ARE TOO GROWN FOR THIS

"You're the most incredible person in the world!"

again, he says that, but doesn't say why. he just expects her to believe him. it's such a broad statement and doesn't connect to anything about el and her personality/interests/ideas.

"Maybe I should've said something, and if I would've said that thing, maybe she'd want me there with her, wherever she is."

he wishes he'd just said it so she'd be satisfied and want him there and he'd know she's okay, he doesn't wish he'd said it so el would know in her heart that he loves her. "i love you" to mike isn't a geniune confession of his feelings, it's a thing. it's a thing that you say. it's something he thinks he has to say because that's what couples do and it's what el wants. if you fell in love with someone at first sight you do not refer to an expression of your love for them as 'that thing'.

"Maybe I was worrying to much about el. . ."

i really don't know what he meant by this. if she is the most important thing to him in the whole world and is deeply in love with her, why in the mother FUCK would he be apologizing TO WILL for worrying too much about her. there wouldn't be too much worrying when you love someone that much.

"You can fly, you can move mountains I believe that."

she literally can't.

"I love you for exactly who you are. You're my superhero."

the first time i saw this i literally thought "oh thats not..."

because it's.....not. one or the other would've been....fine i guess. but the first preceding the other is just not it. i love you for exactly who you are, and that is my superhero. is that all she is to you, mike? el expresses constant worry of being a monster, a bad person. she's afraid that she's a monster with or without her powers. but dr owens said "I'm willing to bet you're one of the good ones." fucking OWENS said something more reassuring than her boyfriend and supposed love of her life, mike wheeler.

THATS NOT ROMANTIC.

[scheodingers-muppet]

in honor of speak now tv about to drop, im bringing back my stranger things taylor song casting. i wrote a lot of this on my phone after listening to the album so apologizes for grammar errors or anything

mine: ronance, from Nancy's POV. Careless man's careful daughter. Sitting there by the water mirroring the boat scene. You learn my secrets and you figure out why I'm guarded. In the music video, we see the couple fighting when things get tough outside of the relationship, which we've also seen Nancy do, both when she was struggling with Barb and fighting with Jonathan when dealing with sexism from her job.

sparks fly: lumax. Max is the rainstorm, Lucas the house of cards. "I'm on my guard for the rest of the world, but for you, I know it's no good"

back to december: stancy; but just Nancy apologizing for how things ended, not them getting back together. "that night" not just being the Halloween fight but her cheating on him. I think she would feel bad about how things ended and I really want them to talk everything out in season 5. Plz. Also the line, "I miss your tan skin, your sweet smile...how you held me in your arms that September night, the first time you ever saw me cry" Obv with the tan skin and smile, but I hc that after Nancy told Steve what happened to Barb, he held her while she cried

speak now: byler, from Will's pov. Not in a literal wedding sense (though that might make a fun fic...) but more of Mike asking Will for advice about El and Will just finally coming clean. Maybe it doesn't go great and he doubles down with El and it causes some tension or maybe the roles are reversed and Mike comes clean then panics and doubles down and Will is trying to get him back

dear john: Joyce about Lonnie. I hate this man.

mean: El about Angela. Imagine if before the roller skate incident, she confided in Joyce and she told her to just confront her with her words, ya know? Like just call her out for being mean. Then when that doesn't work, she thinks, "well, what would Hopper tell me? Gotta fight back." Makes my heart melt

the story of us: Mike and El, from El’s pov. I just really feel like El would use story tails and romance stories, etc. to compare love to. This song to the letter fight just... ugh.

never grow up: Nancy. First verse to Holly, how she knows what's ahead, both in terms of alternate dimensions and being a teenage girl. She doesn't want her to have to deal with either of the two, just to stay little while she can. Second verse to Mike, seeing him start to become more of an adult and secretly missing her annoying kid brother. (brings more punch to the line “all your little brothers favorite songs”) Third verse takes place after she graduates, moving for school. Her night light mentioned in the verse was her graduation/farewell present from Holly, who says she's a big girl now and doesn't need it.

enchanted: elmax! From Max's POV. Imagine the second verse is them having a sleepover, playing truth or dare. I also love the use of referencing the story tail love metaphor again

better than revenge: stommy; Tommy singing about Nancy. idk it’s the closest I could get.

innocent: Steve and Nancy. First verse is about Nancy (lost your balance on a tight rope, lost your mind trying to get it back. wasn’t it beautiful when you believed in everything and everyone believed in you. , second about Steve. bonus points if you imagine them singing this to each other (not in a romantic way)

haunted: lumax (I’m sorry) Lucas begging for her to come back after her attack. Trying to move on and be happy but he can’t get over her. the chorus too, “somethings gone terribly wrong” “your eye’s gone cold” the bridge too “you’re not gone, you can’t be gone” you can also imagine it as like, she lives but can’t face the party without thinking about what happened too

last kiss: stancy / mike and el (parallel!) I think I’m gonna write up a post about all the parallels I see in the characters and dynamics, but I really love this one. Steve being El and Nancy being Mike. The Wheelers having severe issues with love (specifically saying the word) and hurting those who are head over heel for them. I see this from all of their perspectives, switching based off the lines. first verse is mileven (the plane line, “sit on the floor wearing your clothes” we’ve seen El wear clothes from pretty much everyone in the party) the second verse is stancy from Nancy’s pov (life of the party, “i’m not much for dancing, but for you i did” listing things he did she loved without saying “i love you”) bridge is rapid fire switching. “so I’ll watch your life in pictures like i used to watch you sleep” mike (bylers take a lot of family photos; i can imagine him seeing her in photos will sends) “i feel you forget me like i used to feel you breathe” steve “and i’ll keep up with our old friends just you ask them how you are” el “i hope it’s nice where you are…it’s a beautiful day” nancy (i think she feels bad for how things ended)

long live: the whole party. they deserve to feel like hero’s and royalty after everything they’ve been though. i desperately need to find an edit to this

ours: Steddie. the town hates eddie atm and would probably not take well to king steve dating him. the lines “i love the riddles that you speak” and “any snide remarks from my father about your tattoos will be ignored” i can also see lumax, but this is just such a light hearted song to me so i didn’t want to compare it to the racism we’ve seen be thrown at lucas and his relationship

superman: jopper. i love the idea of joyce hyping him up as her superman. also based on my parents (my dad was a first responder and this song always made me think of them for the “saving the world” aspect) “he’s not all bad like his reputation” i’m ignoring the sad parts and just focusing on the “go be a superhero, i’ll be here when you get back”

electric touch: steddie. eddie’s taylor, steve is patrick. “this could either break my heart or bring it back to life” “got a history of stories ending sadly” (eddie) “everytime i tried for love, it fell apart” (steve)

when emma falls in love: robin. i have no real proof, it just reminds me of her. i love the image of steve saying all of this about her ❤️❤️ (obvs pronouns change and stuff)

i can see you: steddie (it’s a very steddie coded album, leave me alone) from steve’s pov, talking about how he’s always had a crush on eddie and always noticed him but it breaks eddie’s brain fhat king steve has a crush on him

castles crumbling: steve angst time. talking about his “fall from social grace” and how he lost everything, both in terms of reconciling what he lost from being a jerk as king steve and what he lost when he was dethroned

foolish one; byler. “stop checking your mailbox for confessions of love” “it’s delicate but i’ll try my best to seem bulletproof” “maybe someday when we’re older this is something we’ll laugh about” “you haven’t written me or called” “i’ll get your longing glances but she’ll get your ring”

timeless; jopper. soul mates for real

[thestobingirlie]

THANK YOU. Robin and Nancy’s incompatibility aside, Robin and Steve’s soulmatism is one of the unshakable dynamics in the show and Robin Buckley would just never. I read fanfics for most ships, and the story you linked is the first r//nance story I’ve seen that doesn’t have a Steve with zero issues just giggling while his best friend in the universe gets with the person who canonically hurt him the most/he’s still in love with. R//nance usually goes hand in hand with having to ignore how significant Nancy and Steve are to each other, which reminds me of the…

The Vickie erasure. The fanon of bi Nancy while fandom totally ignores Vickie is not surprising considering there’s so much automatic hatred of canon. Robin calls Vickie the girl of her dreams! I also hoped for more Vickie in season 4, but Vickie as the embodiment of Robin’s peace at home is perfect. Rosie! That Vickie is too much of a side-character to ship with Robin is ridiculous when I’ve accidentally seen so many fics including Gareth. For real, who the fuck is Gareth.

Nancy still needing to learn how to process her emotions is why I think any Stancy endgame would be a denouement situation. The execution of the matchmaker trope was unnecessary. Three whole characters weighing in on that relationship? One of which was a stranger? Why.

maybe it’s just because i love stobin so much, but it is literally one of the best and strongest dynamics in the show, and i just can’t fathom needing characters to be in a romantic relationship so badly, that people just cast aside how important robin and steve are to each other.

and yeah, i avoid all r//nance fics, like even if they’re just a background ship. because i know that that background ship will be a throwaway line, and still manage to destroy stobin. like, you can’t just have causal r//nance in the background because by it’s very nature, it would tear the characters apart.

in canon, steve still has feelings for nancy. now you can decide if that’s just because he’s clinging to this ideal of life that he isn’t ready to let go of, or because he actually is in love with her, but to disregard their relationship entirely is dumb. like, in their first s4 scene together, nancy spots steve’s car and just instantly calms. like, whether they’re romantic or platonic, steve and nancy are really important to each other.

i honestly just cannot see nancy being queer at all, but i know that’s just my personal opinion. but the fact that people will totally erase vickie, and then get annoyed at the duffers for having minimal gay characters, or for not making r//nance canon. like, there is a bi women right there! stop ignoring her! and yeah, i think the excuse that vickie is just a side character is such bullshit, because she is spoken about a lot, we see her in multiple scenes. she’s more important than gareth, but somehow he pops up everywhere? and a lot of people who hate vickie will then ship buckingham (which i have nothing against!) but it’s like, how are you gonna pretend chrissy has more personality then vickie?

yeah, i hate matchmaking, but the duffers seem incapable of writing a romance without using it. honestly, the reason why i hated murray so much is because of that. like, some random middle aged man got two teens drunk and told them to fuck in his house, and i’m supposed to think that’s the height of romance?! ew. and yeah, i can see robin talking to steve about nancy, because they obviously talk about their loves lives to each other. and dustin is incapable of not inserting himself into steve’s life, but eddie? what does he know about the situation? it’s just so weird.

also, i actually find stancy interesting, at least, i’ve always enjoyed watching their scenes more than nancy and jonathan, but i just don’t think that nancy will be able to get enough development in time for her to end the show in a healthy relationship. though, i do kinda want stancy to be endgame just because i know how much steve antis will hate it. and i think that’s funny.

but honestly, when it comes to endgames i just don’t care. what ships the duffers decide to end on mean nothing to me. i will read whatever fanfics i want when the show ends, and who’s gonna stop me. “oh it’s not canon.” don’t care, didn’t ask.

[to-be-deleted]

Still mad that, after Eddie gives his speech about how he's jealous of Steve because he's just so cool and perfect while he's a coward and Steve says "Give yourself a break man", the writers decided Eddie cutting him off with the Stancy agenda (for absolutely no reason) was better than Steve telling Eddie he wasn't a coward and that he was also jealous of him

[stranger-chichka]

Dustin, compasses, magnets, coke and eating (p.2)

After “Dustin’s “This is the answer” the accent is on the fridge in the Wheeler's house with a 7 made from the magnets. 7 is Mike's and Will's number. 7 is L upside-down. 7 is Love. Mrs Wheeler gives the police officer New Coke (which is associated with Byler) instead of water. By the way, do you remember what Dustin and Steve put in Byers' fridge in s2? The Demogorgon. If my theory's right, it also represents Byler in some way. I won't write about it here in detail, so check out the original post, but few interesting things that are connected with this scene:

most tadpoles are aquatic, but Dart isn't. He doesn't need water;

Dart hates the sun, it hurts him (Will is associated with the light, and it hurts Mike to feel that way about his friend. It hurts to think you're never gonna be together because it's not right in the community they're growing up in. Actually, that's what Dart represents - Mike's being afraid of his feelings toward Will;

Mike wants to take Dart to Hopper (=the police officer). In the same season, we see Mike having his breakdown while talking with Hopper. He calls him a liar, but he actually talks about himself. "You've been hiding her this whole time! Protecting her? You're a stupid, disgusting, lying piece of shit! Liar, liar, liar!" In s3 we see him constantly lying to El, to others, and to himself. After Snow Ball, he realised he has romantic feelings for Will but hides them deep inside to protect both of them. He knows what it means to be a gay kid in the 80s. Dangerous. And we know Mike also hates lying. Friends don't lie. He hates himself. I'm stopping here because it's a bit out of the topic, but I'll write a separate post on this scene.

"Water it down" and "Water still works" both said by Nancy seem to be important lines, considering later Dustin offers someone H2O right after. It definitely has smth to do with Byler in a negative context, but I need more time to think about it (maybe @dinitride-art has some ideas about what the Duffers are trying to imply). I want to focus on Coke. Steve is talking about El while there's Regular Coke near Eddie and Skull Rock. Later we see some Stancy scenes in that very location.

Regular Coke = Stancy, Mileven = not endgame. New Coke = Byler = endgame.

Here are some scenes with Coke I n s4, but also I highly recommend you to read this post by @awhstrangerthings. Keep in mind, the thing = love, because in s4 Mike even says to Will: “Maybe I should’ve said something, and if I would’ve said that thing, then maybe she’d wanted me there with her, wherever she is.”

New Coke on the clock during Mileven's fight above Mike’s head = he’s thinking about the relationship between him and Will at that moment.

Regular Coke during the reunion scene, where we see El's disappointed because he wrote “From, Mike” again.

At Rink o Mania we see Regular Coke 2 times - when Angela takes El to the roller rink and Mike shows zero concern about it, ignoring the fact she definitely looked scared and uncomfortable near Angela (she even looked at him for help, come on, Michael), and when we see devastated El after the accident, sitting alone and Mike, again, showing zero concern.

Regular Coke during dinner, when Mike says “She didn’t look fine.”

Regular Coke during their interrupted talk at Surfer Boy Pizza, where Mike starts talking about their fight and we don’t happen to know what he wanted to say, because Argyle brings pineapple pizza (pineapple pizza and New Coke both represent Byler) and Mike looks very uncomfortable with but later calls it good and eats pizza.

Eating = loving. El dumps Mike and he starts eating.

Mike looks at Will's painting the same painting behind Max.

We also have THIS in Starcourt Mall teaser. A blue triangle. Two pies where the boy in a blue tank top picks one.

"And don't forget, a state of the art food court is just an escalator ride away."

Talking about the food, who was "foraging for food" in s2? Dart. And what season has the most Byler moments? Season 2. And who initiates most of them? Mike.

+ this parallel once again ties Dart to Mike. Not to mention the word "dart" means a small pointed missile that can be thrown or fired. The synonyms are “arrow”, and “barb.” And who is associated with arrows in s4? Michael Wheeler. Also, “to dart” means to move or run somewhere suddenly or rapidly. And who’s always late? Whose playlist’s full of songs about running? No way, it’s Michael Wheeler again.

Let's return to the scene in Jonathan's room and how it parallels with other scenes from previous seasons.

Again, "thing" = love. Games [DnD & Nintendo] = their relationships.

During their talk in 5x03 someone knocks and Mike decides it's his mom. Doors = being in the closet.

But it's Nancy, not mom, so he opens the door. Will he come out to his sister in s5? Or does it mean he was open with her in s1?

Losing, loving and hearing.

It’s interesting that El is listening to Mike’s monologue trapped in front of the door. The door with so much Byler symbolism (credit to @themacklemorebrothers for that observation). Mike's in the closet.

And, finally. Gay love wins because that's what the whole show is about. There upon a rainbow is the answer to a neverending story.

Part 1

[losersclublol]

kinda weird and odly specific (fem) stozier bff head cannons !!!

stan has only ever let her bare feet out around richie

they quote the twins from like that one snl sketch. wait lemme specify. this one and they quote all the john mulany ones. like “we’re so close we finish eachother..” “off”. “his bootys real” “but my personality is fake”

they do those smule duets together and it’s a hot fucking mess but kinda good???

stupid. fucking. tiktoks.

so many

richie insists that they only do like one but they’re both on a friendship high and end up making like 20 and they’re all messy yet funny and good

a few of them blew up

cause why wouldn’t they. like you take richie, an actual comedian, and stan, an actual comedian who just won’t get paid for it. and you get comedic genius with the right amount of fruityness

ew no but matching pjs at sleepovers omg

sleepovers would either be like “we need sleep but you’re at my house” or “almost breaking something whilst having an amazing time and oh wow how did that get in your hair”

stan does richies hair at least once a month and she keeps telling richie to just do her hair like this and it’ll look this good all the time and richie keeps saying she will but noooooooo she doesn’t cause she’s a little dirt girl who has to look messy

they make the weirdest but best snacks together (i used to dip cabbage in lemonade, it was bomb)

they make little cooking videos/vlogs but it’s just stan looking tired and doing a good job, richie getting lost and confused and both of them losing everything they put down

“anyway now we need the spatula to mix it all up… where is the spatula” “how tf would i know dumbass you had it last” “okay don’t be mean stancy but seriously where is it i just had it” “bro i don’t know just retrace your steps or something idk… wait no where tf is it it’s not here” “see what i mean???” *confused looking* “omg where is it” “it’s gonna burn !” “no ! we made that together ! where is it !!!” *even more confused and stressed looking* “I DONT KNOW “ *harmonised screaming* “wait no no no it’s fine i’ll just turn the heat off for now” “oh thank god you’ve saved us,,, wait nvm no need i found it !” “where was it?” “oh the counter right next to us” “omg”

they’re the only ones who can see each others like ugly cackle only for bff snorty loud yet so silent laugh (please tell me you know what one i’m talking about)

the amount of times they’ve gotten in trouble for laughing so much omg

one time richie made them “hold hands” with their feet

she got punched but she got a picture so it’s worth it

their contact photos for eachother are the both best and worst pictures they have of the other

no other losers can see them

stozier eyes only

they definitely had one of those joint bff instagram accounts when they were like 12

omg musically

they had a shared account on musically too and it is the best thing ever made

HOLY SHIT ITS A GOLD MINE

“honey you already know i’m the slomo queen” and it’s just them doing some stupid ass spin with glasses on or something

stan has glasses

reading kinda glasses not like richies blind ass ones

omg no stan being farsighted is so funny to me tho i’ve thought about it before

like she can see birds like a mile away but walks into every fucking pole ever

she just can’t see them (how?? idk)

they share clothes

obviously

but when one of them comes over to the others house for a sleepover they just immediately change into whatever clothes is there

shared wardrobe

y’know my dad once put on my sisters jeans and they fit

sorry back on topic

i hate to be the one to say it but

they were each other’s first kiss and you can not tell me they weren’t

it’s up to you how it happens but it did

stans scared of spiders and richie takes advantage of that as much as possible (within reason she’s not an asshole)

she used the like spider on your face filter r to scare stan and it worked

she horror screams every time

THIS MASSIVE FUCKING SPIDER JUST CRAWLED OVER ME AND ITS LOST WTF

no no no fuck this no no

FUCK WHAT THE FUCK FUCK OFF NO

kms

i meant “i’m” but like yeah sure

anyways i’m sleeping downstairs tonight

they make up insane stories about stans bat mitzvah bc they were the only losers there

they shoot the straw wrappers at each other no doubt

have been mistaken for a couple too many times to count

they hold hands when they’re out and about (cause stan feels anxious and needs constant reassurance that she’s not gonna be left alone, also cause bffs)

they’ve got like ten of the bff necklaces and bracelets

like those wee bacon and egg ones that have the words “best” and “friends” on it

(stan got the bacon one)

they’re both lactose intolerant but have ice cream dates

whenever they have like picnics stan always brings perfectly cut fruit and nice sandwiches and food and stuff and richie brings all the snacks that they both like

stans like the mum who makes the cute little bentos

soup making omg

they’ve 100% cosplayed like heather chandler and veronica and like oh god i don’t wanna say it but bakudeku HDHSJXBHXHAJSNSN

i’m sorry but it’s funny

it was unintentional at first tho

richie was doing the deku voice for a tiktok and stan was telling her to stfu and people ran with it

WHY IS THAT SO FUNNYHXVSHXB BHSKSMSM N JEJNS

they’ve definitely ugly cried together

well of course

but it still had to be said

and like cuddles awwwwww

also they genuinely love eachother

whether it’s romantic or platonic they are like soulmates to me

well to me all the losers are soulmates but stozier are just the ultimate best friends

okay y’know what i’m gonna end this here

also i have no clue how to do the read more things apologies

oh and if anyone has any tips on how to do it in the mobile that would be so appreciated !!!

[kaypeace21]

Unpopular opinion; I hated elmax in season 3, just think about the fact that they only got friends with each other cause El broke up with Mike. But also just so much more that i disliked; constantly laughing behind the boys their backs, Max using els powers to spy on people. Yeah I didn’t like any of that.

Like I’ve said before, them stalking their exes was supposed to look bad. Spying on romantic partners = not being endgame!

Lumax is paralleled to mileven and jancy which have stalking elements, specifically stalking their future partner.  (lucas being called a ‘stalker’ for stalking Max with binoculars(max spying on Lucas in s3), el spying on mike and saying “I make my own rules “ -ignoring his discomfort , Jonathan taking pics of nancy unbeknownst to her (and Steve saying he was “stalking” nancy- although Jon apologized unlike El, max, or Lucas ) . Steve in s3 (like Lucas) using binoculars to spy on a girl he’s crushing on that rejected him earlier. Lumax and mileven danced to ‘every breath you take’- a song about a bad break up and a stalker ex gf. The writer of the song also has said many times “it’s NOT a love song.” The duffers obviously knew that. Lumax also danced to it and Lucas was called a ‘stalker’ right before they danced. El also stalked Mike in s2 (all that stuff milevens found romantic- El watching him using her powers, without him knowing. Mike said he was not ok with it in s3). And in s3 when he said not to do that and she just says ‘i make my own rules’. She was literally a stalking ex in s3 (like the song). It even says “I’ll be watching you” when Lucas/El were on screen - the 2 characters,  who in s2, stalked their future partners.And like max said to Mike about the spying “I didn’t make her do it ! it was her idea!” (To spy on mike- because she’s been doing it constantly ever since s2 !)

Everything you criticize elmax for is just showing how bad mileven is.

Like how El laughed at Max saying Mike talks too much. Plus, El laughing when Max said mileven wasn’t on break but a breakup. (Or El swoning over Ralph Machio right after dumping mike and saying mike is just her “first boyfriend “). El lying to everyone to go against her “friends don’t lie “ mantra to kiss mike. And ignoring all of her old friends for 6 months to makeout with mike. El and mike neglected everyone for 6 months- so they could makeout and were called out for it by multiple characters.

Many characters criticized Mileven (mike/ El) : for neglecting others in favor of their unhealthy codependent relationship

-Hopper about mileven In ep 1 : “it is constant! Constant! That is not healthy! That is not normal!”

-Will: “you’re ruining the party... all so you can swap spit with some stupid girl.”

-Lucas micking mike in ep 1 : “oh el, I wish we could makeout and never hang out with our friends.”

-Dustin pissed in ep 1(after mileven lies to their friends to all of them to ditc the party and makeout- proving lucas’ earlier comment right ): “it’s bullshit! I just got home !” ( he specifically says “ it’s bullshit “ in response to max saying “it’s romantic “. Because Dustin is also dating someone and knows that excuse is bs. Just like mileven is bs (stancy parallel) . See the difference ! Dustin is on the hill to integrate Susie (his gf ) into the friend group- similar to what Lucas did with max- the opposite of what mike is doing with El in that same scene).

-Hopper: “For 6 long excruciating months they’re finally not together!” (Joyce cheers and claps her hands happily)

-Max to mike (after previously defending mileven) : “she’s not yours! She’s her own person!”

Mileven caused El to ignore all her friends and not try and get to know Will or Max.So the way the elmax friendship only happened AFTER the mileven breakup reflects more poorly on mileven than anything.

El dating Mike caused her character to regress as a character NOT PROGRESS. She went from (in s2) wanting to see her all friends and leave the cabin that she was forced to remain in because of Hopper . To in s3 , ignoring her friends and choosing to seclude herself in the cabin even when (unlike s2 ) she was allowed out of the house! All so she could suck face with mike ! And because she was dating mike she also directly went against her own mantra of “friends don’t lie” from s2 (lying to her friends to return to the cabin and kiss mike) - and limiting her much needed social interaction which she obtained (with kali/ terry/Becky ) by escaping the cabin in s2. And despite her lying to her friends- she hypocritically dumped mike for lying to her. But also forgave him despite the fact he never actually apologized for lying (the cause of the breakup). And she also lied for 3 months about hearing the “love her “ comment in the cabin. She even wears Hopper’s shirt at the end of s3 which in s2 she snuggled with when homesick.  Her using teddy bears like s2,  wearing Hopper’s shirt from s2 (and undoing the s3 makeover where Max said to dress what felt like her and NOT Mike & Hopper),  and kissing Mike again, symbolizes all her character development was undone from s3 too- it’s symbolic of her CHARACTER REGRESSION. Just like how in s3 she stayed in the cabin and lied to her friends (when she started to date Mike)- undoing her character arc /traits from s2 which were in direct opposition to her s2 character arc. Mileven’s kissing at the end of s3 shows it’s a bad for El’s growth and inhibits it- that’s what  season 3 was saying! Mileven is in direct opposition to El’s character growth- it reversed her character growth in both s2 and s3!

Plus, unrelated - El attacking Max for having the audacity to make Mike smile. Was never framed positively! It had sinister music and some of ya’ll STILL thought it was cute /funny when it was the opposite. All this reflects more poorly on mileven than elmax.

[kaypeace21]

i LOVE your analysis especially byler ones so please don't take this as hate, it's the last thing i want to do. but while i love the byler theories do you actually think the duffers are smart enough to realize the potential/brave enough to follow through on the relationship. bc tbh i think our viewpoint is skewed i don't think anyone but byler shippers see the canon possibility. and also it really seems like m/leven is going to be endgame? just wanted to know more of your thought process

Even if byler never happens- I’m 100% sure mileven won’t be endgame XD. Regardless of byler, Mike and El are just not going to happen. (Even if they’re ‘dating’ in s4). I could try to explain the reasons why I think byler will be endgame though. I’ll give the cliffnotes version. This will probably be a mess- because focusing on all the reasons isn’t as good as analyzing , each reason as it’s own separate post, in depth). 

Why mileven isn’t endgame

- The duffers said, while filming ST, El was supposed to die in s1 (glad that didn’t happen). And this was also their plan when pitching their show ‘Montauk’ (later retitled ST), saying that the hypothetical  s2 sequel would be about the boys returning to their town 10 years later. Mileven was never ‘planned end-game’. They also describe mileven kissing but never mention the word ‘love’ like how Jancy was described in the Montauk pitch. Nancy’s bio says “ she will experience love for the first time.”  But when they describe mileven, they say, “If Mike is the Elliot of our show, Eleven is our “E.T.” Like that’s … not romantic, Duffers. And if it was supposed to be … WTF did you guys watch the same film? 0-O

- In the byler centric s2, the Duffers kept mileven separated. And the mileven kiss wasn’t written in the show. Millie pretty much said “they had to do it.” Much to Matt’s confusion but then the Duffers agreed. And used ‘every breath you take’ (a song about divorce), and just by coincidence their 2nd back-up  song was also a song about a divorce? Nah, they were trolling.

- Most of the women (Nancy & Max) in the show critique Mileven saying Mike treats her as if she’s stupid, can’t take care of herself, or as she is a possession. 

-in the first ep of s3 almost all the guys (who had/have gfs) Hopper, Lucas, and Dustin all criticize the mileven relationship and think it’s unhealthy.

Hopper says “ They’re spending entirely too much time together… It is constant.It is constant! Okay? That is not normal, that is not healthy! ”

Lucas mocks Mike, saying “ Oh El, I wish we could make out forever and never hang out with any of our friends.”

Dustin says when they flake on him, “It’s bullshit, I just got home!” (insert Nancy calling Stancy ‘bullshit’)

and before this  Dustin talks about Romeo & Juliet (while mileven is out of frame). R&J is all about the dangers of not knowing the difference between love and infatuation. Juliet after Romeo is banished just complains about how in love/sad she is but never pursues looking for him (sound familiar)? R&J claimed that they were in love with each other after knowing each for a few days and deciding to get married-sabotaging the closest relationships they had with their friends/family (all in the name of ‘true love’) . Similarly Mileven thought they were in love after only a week of knowing each other, and the second they are reunited they start dating and spend all their time with each other. El is allowed out of the house (and her friends are allowed to visit), but El hasn’t interacted with Max nor Will? They spend almost everyday in her room just making out. Mike puts very little effort into integrating her into his life or as part of the group. The only time they go out- is for Mike to show off El to Dustin like a possession- then before El can even do the boding activity with the group (with the radio tower)- Mike convinces her to leave to make out. They are both complicit in this and they both bring out the worst in each other and they make each other blinded to their loved ones’ feelings.

- El literally asks Max “How do I know what I like?” Do I have to explain why this could be problematic? She even says “I don’t know”, when Max asks if Mike is a good kisser.You can call me ‘ableist’ my abused-autistic ass will disagree. But El is not ready for a romantic relationship! it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of romantic, platonic, and familial love- when the first 12 years of her life she didn’t receive any form of love , PERIOD! And she is not like normal abuse victims (she has never had proper socialization with peers her own age or even adults).All she had was television. She latches herself on to anyone who is kind to her (something I used to do). Without Mike she used Max as a replacement almost immediately, and even starts repeating/mirroring the things she says (specifically coping phrases from her …over 6 times!). She’s also susceptible to doing what others say or want her to do, “dumping his ass” (with Max’s validation and encouragement). El might love Mike but I don’t think it’s romantic, she latched on to the first person that was kind to her. Before their first kiss she asked Mike “Will you be like my brother?” And she’s hurt when he says “no”, asking “Why not?”. He then kisses her (she watches a lot of soap operas and she assumes it must be ‘romantic love’). You’re telling me that if she was ‘in love’ with Mike she would have been that happy over dumping him? I’m not saying El is dumb for not being able to discern these things (I think people without such backgrounds may still struggle with this concept). But it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of various loves or even the differences between ‘crushes’ , ‘physical attraction’ and ‘romantic love’ 

- In the last ep El asks about what he said at the cabin to Max, specifying “you talked about your feelings?”. He says and I QUOTE “Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…”  and starts to scratch his head. Then he excuses what he said at the cabin, saying it was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t actually remember. What did I say exactly?”  

Now either he legitimately forgot! Or he lied! You know the thing that broke them up in the first place! The one thing that El holds as her most important value in life- honesty. And he lied- about something as important as his romantic feelings?!  Make up any excuse (about being shy/character flaws all you want), but this isn’t real life- it’s fiction (everything is done for a narrative purpose). That wasn’t an accident ( mileven wasn’t “written out of character”- like milevens claim,  the duffers were criticizing the ship on purpose) .And the fact he lied again! Wouldn’t bode well for a long term relation with each other. The whole season, criticized their romantic relationship ! That wasn’t a coincidence neither was the fact he looked confused by her confession, and kept his eyes open the whole time and didn’t kiss her back . 

And as she smiled and walked away, he looked confused. That wasn’t a directing mistake, like so many milevens are claiming! You really think they wouldn’t make sure their ‘fav ship’ didn’t have a good final kiss? 

 Especially since it was right after a romantic Jancy scene (which was directed amazingly)- where Nancy even mentions Mileven- to make us compare the 2 pairings romantic scenes even more. 

* I know I sound like an assh*le but I’m just annoyed. I’ve always censored my byler posts trying not to offend/criticize mileven. I never cross tagged my byler meta with the hashtag mileven (never will, cause it’s rude). But (without sounding pompous) my byler posts generally gets reblogged a lot- and now the milevens have seen my posts (and are sending lots of hate my way) and worst of all they’ve invaded the byler tag. Today I saw 2 posts in the byler tag saying. “We’re delusional” and “stupid”- and also in the same posts they say they “feel attacked” by us.Um… there’s a difference between byler shippers privately criticizing a ship without bothering mileven shippers (and only tagging it byler) . Versus Mileven shippers  tagging things byler (and ranting about the ship and it’s shippers). Loved the comment about how Mike can’t be bi cause “he loves El too much”.I think Mike is probably gay and in denial. But, um that’s not how being bi works- didn’t know  bi people love women and men ½ as much as the gays/straights. Thanks for informing me (rolls eyes for eternity).So kid-gloves off, nothing left to lose! Time to compare the ships.

‘The breakup’ vs ‘fight’ parallel

comedic vs dramatic! The casual sunny day vs the dramatic framing of the storm (a romantic trope) . The ‘break-up’ being a scene with multiple onlookers vs the fight being with Will and Mike only (making it more personal/intimate).  ‘Cold as ice’ playing after the mileven breakup vs the sad instrumentals playing during the byler fight. The comedic after-math at the mall. El and Max laughing, and another joke being made as the bus leaves.El’s happiness vs Will’s heartbreak.

Mike’s drastically different expressions after their fights. He looks regretful with Will, and almost annoyed with El dumping him.  The fact Mike apologized right away more than once to Will, and ran into a storm to apologize a 2nd time. But with El he just lies to cover up the first lie, and then after the break-up he just complains/lounges on the couch (not taking any responsibility). He literally says about El “Why is she treating me this way? What did I do to deserve this? What did I do wrong?”.( He lied and made her feel “like garbage”!) Then he burps and laughs about chips- and makes sexist comments. Neither EL nor Mike are heartbroken by the breakup.

But when he angers Will (by him trying to finish the game early), he immediately tries to de-escalate saying softly “I was just joking- c’mon, let’s finish the game”. But when Will just yells back (much to Mike’s confusion) he doesn’t dismiss his feelings as irrational (like he wrongfully did to El) but chases him to the garage-  and begs him to stay since it’s raining.

In the garage, Mike immediately apologizes saying “I said I was sorry, alright. It was a cool campaign.” But after this, they fight and Mike runs into a storm to apologize a second time , and says to Will’s door “ WILL! I’m sorry I was being an asshole. Can you just come outside and we’ll talk? WILL!” He immediately takes responsibility and apologizes. And he’s desperate to resolve things. And when they find him outside castle Byers he just asks  (Mike’s catchphrase) “Will, Are you ok?”

Shed scene ( “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “the most important thing in the world to me”) parallel

When Mike says to El  “you’re most important thing to me” in the pool shed. El doesn’t even acknowledge the comment (and neither should the audience- cause the words were empty). She completely ignores his words, and responds by asking him about his previous comments. Asking whether Hopper was right about them spending too much time together.

I didn’t edit (or delete any scene after his proclamation) this is how fast it was delivered ! The framing of this mileven scene was not cinematic or heartfelt, and neither was the delivery from Mike. He’s not crying, trying to reach her with proclamations of his genuine feelings. There’s no dramatic music, framing, lighting or shot composition. And El just responds and cuts his supposed ‘true feelings’ off- only to agree with Hopper and says “ she should spend time with her own species.” And if this ‘romantic moment’ wasn’t already undermined enough. This is when Mike realizes she was spying on him , and feels wrongfully violated (something she doesn’t apologize for,  saying “I make my own rules” . He even brings this up in a later episode (this clearly bothered him)!

Juxtaposed to the MUCH longer byler scene. A literal single tear falling down his cheek as Mike , recounts the first day they met. Mike being in the back drop of darkness only his face being illuminated (having him appear like a guiding light to Will). Saying “ I felt so alone and  so scared… but you were alone too” (alone together/crazy together) .  He then talks about asking Will to be his friend, and then he pauses and breaks eye contact , before looking him in the eye and smiling (lost in the memory) saying softly “you said yes, you said yes.” (cough like saying yes at a wedding).

So, after he says “you said yes, you said yes.” It’s important to mention that he takes a deep breath and breaks eye contact again, (looking down and to the side) as he says this line. Subconsciously, I believe he knows this line is romantic and he’s too afraid to say it to his face. Only flicking his eyes up to look at Will  after he finishes the entire sentence, and to gauge Will’s reaction.

This whole monologue is only of tight shots of just their faces (their bodies aren’t shown like in the pool shed scene). This is a personal moment between them and them alone- and the fact we zoom in on their faces (expresses this to be important emotionally) . And when we see Will’s reaction to Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done”. We just see Will’s face only- no music is playing and all we hear is  Will’s whimpers and Mike crying in the background.

“ Blank makes you Crazy” vs “ Crazy Together parallel

When Mike tries to confess his “love” to El he says “Well they do say it makes you crazy”… much to El’s confusion.He has to try to explain it a second time to El- who just gets even more confused, by his ‘confession’. Saying “you never heard that expression? Like blank makes you crazy … like the word (love)?”

But when Mike says he “feels like he’s going crazy” Will immediately responds with “Me too”. Mike even smiles at the comment. So that moment in s2 means more than we think, when Mike (with tears in his eyes) smiles at Will’s comment and asks them to go “crazy together”.And when Will responds back “yeah, crazy together” (who also has tears in his eyes). They even linger on the moment as they just smile and stare at each other.

Mike is in denial, and may not even realize he loves Will, but he knows subconsciously that he does. He heard the phrase “love makes you crazy and that damn stupid”, 100′s of times and that’s why he said that phrase to Will. And why it made him so happy when Will reciprocated , by saying “ yeah. crazy together.” In addition to why we see them both go from happy, to immediately upset over the conversation.The scene was already romantically coded in s2 (but the scene in s3 re-contextualizes the whole thing) . Mike thinks “love makes you crazy” , and he asked Will to go ‘crazy together’ with him. And When Will is at castle byers looking at the Halloween pic of the 2 the day Mike said that, Will cries and calls himself “stupid” (4x). Can’t get more obvious… Like look what the duffers did! 

El and Will’s opinions on Mike (Parallels)

-When asked if Mike was a good kisser,  she just said “I don’t know he’s my 1st boyfriend.” (implying she’s thinking, at least subconsciously, of having other boyfriends ,who are not Mike in the future).  But when Mike pretty much asks’ if Will thought they’d never get girlfriends, and spend the rest of their lives with each other’.Will just sadly responds “yeah, I guess I did. I really did!” Unlike, El, Will always saw Mike as his future, his forever.

-And when Mike says “it’s just a break” , Max says “No it’s not!”, and we see El laugh along with Max’s comment. She is not heartbroken at the idea of never getting back together with him, romantically. Right after they break up she was laughing, reading comics, and playing games with Max.

But Will is devastated over the fight! And out of all the memories in Castle Byers it’s the Ghostbusters photo from Halloween that causes Will to pick up the bat and start destroying everything. That was the night that Mike agreed to go “crazy together” with him. He tears it in ½ right in the center where Mike and Will are. He was so stupid to think it meant anything. The “crazy together” scene, that Mike initiated in s2 was always meant to be romantic. Not only because of Will’s reaction to the photo in s3, but because Mike in s3 says “They do say it makes you crazy…blank makes you crazy.”  Which is exactly what happens to Will, as he has his breakdown.Castle byers was built on a rainy night , the same day Will’s dad left, when Will was 5 (the same age he met Mike). And lonnie called him a “queer” and a “f*g” and forced him to do “normal things” like baseball to have him “be more of a man”. And then on a rainy night, after Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls”… what does Will destroy castle byers with? A baseball bat! The fact Will has a baseball bat (despite in s1 saying he does not like baseball) in Castle Byers, surrounded by things he loves: drawings, d&d, art supplies, a microscope, comics- just shows what an impact Lonnie’s problematic conditioning and abandonment had on him. He used a baseball bat to destroy something he loves -castle Byers, and symbolically he was trying to reject his feelings for Mike using Lonnie’s old tactics of fixing him.

- Also, El doesn’t even seem to appreciate when Mike acts like his true self (goofy/like a kid). She laughs when Max complains he talks too much. Rolls his at his jokes with the cpr-dummy, covers his mouth and tells him to stop when he tries to joke and sing, ignores him when he gets excited about talking about dinosaurs. Which relates to my next point

The only characters who’s character bios focus on ‘escaping’ through d&d is Mike and Will.

Will in the Montauk pitch was described as having “sexual identity issues… LIKE MIKE , Will ESCAPES through fantasy gaming where he can be himself, uninhibited.” Like what is Mike escaping from… being a nerd? Because they could of said ‘like his friends’. And no it’s not because they’re best friends- they even specifIed in Lucas bio he’s “ Mike’s best friend” (which was even mentioned in s1).

.In Mike’s character description it says “ bullying and near-crippling insecurity. He has never had a first kiss, much less a girlfriend.He ESCAPES his insecurities through reading fantasy novels … retreating into his own vivid imagination. The Dungeon Master of his Dungeons and Dragons group, he writes sprawling adventures with fantastical monsters.When he finds himself on a real adventure, facing real monsters, he will discover a courage he didn’t know he had. By the end, he will even kiss a girl.”

*Interesting that Mike uses D&D  to escape his insecurities about not having a gf (retreating into his imagination). While Will (who is somewhat aware of his sexuality) uses d&d to escape and be himself uninhibited. They’re foils in a sense- using d&d for opposing reasons.

So the s3 fight about d&d games has a lot more meaning 

Mike equates heterosexual romance with ‘growing up’ and his feeling for Will as something childish he has to grow out of.When they fight over d&d. Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”, then he tries to ½ apologize only to say, “I’m not trying to be a jerk. Ok? But We’re not kids anymore.” He pretty much explains, this is just the way things are-boys fall in love with girls, get girlfriends, and that’s just a part of growing up (heteronormativity).  And tells Will “I mean, what did you think, really? That we were never gonna get girlfriends? We were just gonna sit in my basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives?” And poor Will who is probably more aware of his feelings just responds. “Yeah. I guess I did. I really did.” And after this Mike rushes to Will’s house and apologizes saying he was an “asshole.”When he tries to say he loves El . It was very forced. He can’t even use the world love or explain his feelings, “A feeling … yeah, like, something… like OLD PEOPLE say it sometimes”.

He can’t even describe love and what his “feelings” entail for El , he then says  “Yeah, like something , like old people say it some times. He doesn’t even say it back in the last ep, when she confesses. It’s all talk, but no feeling, it’s just a part of becoming an adult in Mike’s mind.

In the last ep before the mileven kiss, he even invites both El and Will over for Christmas saying “ And Will too… we could all have new presents to play with and… *scoffs* Sorry, that made me sound like a 7 year old...  ”

And it’s implied in the last ep (before the mileven kiss),  because of the 3 month breakup Mike is back to liking d &d. When Mike sees Will put his own d&d book in the donation box he stops him.

Mike: “WHOA, dude that’s the donation box.”

Will: “ I know, I’ll just use yours,  when I come back. (pause) if WE still want to play?”

So then Mike asks, shyly …

Mike : “Yeah, but what if you want to join another party?” (cough- girls , the other ‘species���, or just someone else: girl, guy or otherwise)

Will: “Not possible.” (Will will always love Mike- insert Mikes immediate heart-eye reaction to this comment).

I think people don’t notice what the subtext is here- regardless of his intentions, Mike broke Will’s heart. He made him feel “stupid” for ever thinking he ever had a chance with Mike. He always saw Mike as his forever, but Mike shot any hopes of that down in the garage. Will doesn’t trust his own instincts. Mike could straight up flirt with him in s4/5- and Will would dismiss it as his imagination. He essentially said ‘he’ll always love Mike- but if something is going to happen. It’s up to Mike to initiate it’.

Mike was queer coded since ep 1 (and he’s more queer coded than Will)!

 I LITERALLY thought (in s1) Mike was queer before Will!

- 3 rainbow references. Mike in s1 in his basement has a red heart being propelled by a rainbow sign. We see this again in s3 as a drawing. Mike also stands next to Will behind a rainbow apple poster in s2. Forbidden fruit + rainbow = queer forbidden romance. Also the apple poster was in the AV Club and at that time the rainbow apple-mac sign was suspected to be in reference to for Alan Turning (the gay ‘father of computers’).

In s1:

- 4 separate characters said El looked like a boy, but Mike doesn’t care! Even one of the men thought El might be the missing ‘Byers boy’. When El loses her wig , Troy said “she doesn’t even look like a girl” to the cops. But Mike just calls her “really pretty”

-Nancy says “I thought you were acting weird, but I thought it was because of Will” And Mike responds “I thought you were acting weird too I thought it was because of Steve … Do you like Jonathan now”?” Nancy: “No, do you like Eleven?”. They literally compared the explicit love triangle between Steve/Nancy/Jonathan to the Will-Mike-El dynamic!

- Mike literally uses gender inclusive pronouns when talking about crushes using the word “someone” (3 times), and embarrassing himself because he can’t articulate the difference between friendship and romance. When he could of simply given the 80s heteronormative  answer of ‘when a boy likes a girl’.

Mike: “ you go to school dances with someone.

You know someone that you like”

El: “a friend?”

Mike: ‘not a friend uh … uh someone like a” (gives up and kisses her)

-Mike’s mom said “ What’s been going on with Will, I can’t imagine what it’s been like for you. I just … want you to feel like you can talk to me. I never want you to feel like you have to HIDE anything from me” (she even emphasizes the word ‘hide”  (which is heavily queer coded)

- when Will ‘dies’, “we can be heroes” by David bowie (a bisexual singer) plays,   “And we kiss as though nothing could fall and the shame” is the lyric that plays when Mike returns to his house and cries in his mother’s arms over the ‘death’ of Will. Do I have to explain how ‘kissing and shame’ are queer-coded . And how such a lyric is oddly romantic- if we’re supposed to see their bond as nothing but platonic XD

-his dad jokes “Absolutely not” *turns to wife* “our son with a girl?”.

- when Lucas makes fun of his crush on EL, Lucas gets down on one knee  and says “ I love you so much, will you marry me?” and literally 1s later, we’re introduced to the bullies and the idea (for the first time) that Will is ‘gay’, and Mike is in the forefront of the scene and unlike his friends he is THE ONLY ONE physically assaulted as they cause him to fall face first into a rock (like a gay-bashing) .  They leave Lucas and Dustin unharmed. Even though Lucas just proposed to another guy- which should have gotten him a beating by the homophobic bullies.

It’s supposed to subconsciously hint Mike is queer like Will, and likes Will. The first interaction with the bullies, they mention Will being ‘gay’ right after they mention Mike’s crush on androgynous El and have a guy propose to Mike. Mike says to “ignore them” ( the homophobic remarks) but is assaulted anyways. And when asked what happed he doesn’t want to tell El the details cause he’s ashamed .

2nd time the bullies talk about Will, Mike is once again in the forefront, unlike his straight friends who are in the background . But this time Mike initiates the confrontation), as the bullies say Will is “flying in fairyland with all the other little fairies. All happy and gay”. Mike was literally on the verge or tears at this comment (despite being happy a few moments earlier , telling the others to ‘act sad’ because they’d look suspicious other wise). But this is the comment where Mike snaps and pushes Troy back (because he took it personally/wanted to defend Will).

The framing of Mike once again being in the front and snapping at the homophobic remarks ( gifs don’t do it justice, just rewatch the scene -Mike eyes water at the remarks). Then the last time the bullies appear , Mike jumps off the cliff and “flies like a fairy” (like Troy said) thanks to El . Troy at the police station even uses the word “fly” not levitate.

-Mike sneaking out to find Will, as Steve sneaks in to Nancy’s. They both even make eye contact (and pretend not to have seen each other).

- they share dinosaur toys , in s1 and 2 they appear to be the only ones with dinosaur toys.

- The s1 mom hug scene where Mike feels he lost Will is paralleled in s3 - signifying how he lost him a 2nd time.

- Mike in the 1st ep being the one to insist on looking for Will in the rain (callback to s3). But he never went looking for El when he saw her through his window? Even when Mike saw Will’s dead body, the second he heard his voice he convinced his friends to help rescue him!

- You remember the binder (from s1) that Mike keeps, filled with 100s of Will’s drawings, and how he caresses the drawing after thinking Will was dead. That’s totes platonic.

- Mike in s1 proclaiming “I’m the only one who cares about Will!” Seems like something a kid with a crush might say ( because obviously his other friends care about Will). But he thinks he cares the most. He was even the first to worry about Will not showing up to school, the first to suggest looking for him while speaking to Hopper, and when Hopper and his parents say ‘no’ he sneaks out anyway (and is the first to suggest forming a search party). The first to believe he was alive after seeing his dead body.The only boy to have a scene dedicated solely to him mourning Will.  Mike being the only boy to stay awake at the hospital, and the first boy to see and hug Will. The only one to have a private one on one talk before Will goes missing. The only one who was literally given 100s of Will’s drawings. And yet Dustin says Lucas’ is Mike’s best friend? So what does that make Mike and Will?

In s2:

- Will in all 3 seasons identifies as a wizard. But in s2 Mike (the paladin) says Will is a cleric. Meaning this reflects how Mike actually feels about Will. In d&d, they have similar moral values, powers, and generally need and depend on each other in the lore of d&d. Paladins have similar healing powers to clerics, but clerics have stronger healing abilities - which is interesting since Mike has always been viewed as the protector. But to Mike Will has helped him (maybe deal with the loss of El and other trauma) , just by being there. And if Mike says Will is a cleric,despite Will still identifying as a wizard in s3, it shows how deeply Mike actually feels about Will. It shows he views Will as one of the only people who understands him and views him as a healing presence and his moral compass.

“ strength of conviction gave many paladins a sense of common fellowship but did not always endear them to others. In many cases, paladins did not get along quite as well with other non-paladin adventurers, with the exception of clerics with similar beliefs.”

“A Paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous Paladin is fallible. Sometimes the heat of emotion causes a Paladin to transgress his or her oath (of honesty, courage, compassion, honor ,and duty). A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. After a rite of confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh.”

This proves Mike knows he treats Will special/different than his other friends- and unlike a relationship with El (they are still individuals who are not dependent on each other). And Mike thinks being with Will quite literally makes him a better person. Juxtaposed with how him being in a romantic relationship with El made him blind and apathetic to those closest to him .

- All the mileven s1 parallels vs byler s2 parallels were ALL initiated by Mike. If the parallels were meant to show a one sided love triangle (on Mike’s end). They would of made Will the instigator not Mike! Parallels can be watched here , start at 6:50)

-Mike initiated the “crazy together’ line- and in s3 he said ‘blank makes you crazy’. So subconsciously he knew the line had romantic connotations.

-Mike initiating the hand hold (with a zoom in shot) and in the show this is only done for romantic pairings. Also Mike being the one to initiate the ‘arm thing’ which is generally romantic. But in s3 , Lucas also does this, saying “I am spending quality time with my girlfriend’

-Mike saying, asking him to be his friend was the “best thing I’ve ever done”

-Mike constantly following Will around, asking if he’s okay or biking to his house to check on him in s2 . In s3 running out to chase Will to the garage and apologizing, and running into a storm to apologize a 2nd time.

YOU SEE A PATTERN! Mike is whipped! And is the one constantly chasing and pursuing Will, not the other way around! Before s3, people always portrayed Will as the (stereotypical- problematic trope of a) sad-pinning-gay in a one sided love with Mike. It’s like people didn’t even watch the show (and just assigned tropes/stereotypes they wanted, that weren’t actually there). Will (probably too shy or scared to- because of homophobic taunts) never initiated a single byler moment- it was ALWAYS Mike!!! If people were actually objective, they would of thought it was Mike who was the one pinning!

- Which brings me to Mike literally pinning! Mike forcing Will to dance with a girl (who has a rainbow hairclip), but you literally see Mike’s shocked expression like  ‘what,why’d I do that ?’ And after this, they show Dustin looking sad about Max/Lucas dancing and then they have Mike get into the frame (next to Dustin) and look sad when Will/girl are dancing in the same exact frame as Max/Lucas. As they switch between these last 2 shots.

the cannon Spotify playlists-called ‘Mike’s basement beats’- These are character playlists that Spotify and St worked on together after s2.

-his first song is “small town boy” an 80s LGBT anthem about living in a small town and being queer and bullied. Every band member was openly gay.

-his 11th song is ‘don’t you want me’ from a “celebrate your gay pride” album

* But queer people are “delusional” for thinking Mike isn’t straight? And are told to “open your eyes and watch the show” (that was an actual quote in the byler tag). Ok? Take your own advice, then! XD

One of the Duffers cited inspirations for ST is SUPER GAY (and what they based the byler dynamic off of).

In the Will comic, Will throws an old 1970s book called “house of stairs” at the demorgorgan. And in a later chapter Mike and Will just read together at the library (just silently reading together, enjoying each others’ company-totally not a romantic cliche).And Mike warns Will the book ‘could have spoilers’ for the d&d campaign. Also look at this byler-centric cover :)

  Peter (Will) is shy, quiet ,initially a pushover, and gay-coded.  And as a coping mechanism he has psychological-breaks with reality where he thinks of his best friend from the orphanage, Jasper (Mike) . Another kidnapped boy, named Oliver (who looks just like Jasper/Mike) is also queer-coded (but a violent-sociopath). And, unlike Jasper who actually wanted to protect/take care of Peter -Oliver starts to gets a sick thrill out of making Peter dependent on him (which Peter catches on to pretty quickly). Oliver was insistent on being the only one to ‘wake’ Peter from his episodes (just like how Mike did for Will, in s2), except Oliver calls him pet-names like “sweetheart, baby, etc.” 

And again to prove it’s queer-coded I’ll read some of the (shortened) quotes, in the order they were written. These are quotes from Peter (Will’s) pov talking about his childhood best-friend Jasper (Mike) .  

-“his room. His and jaspers room.  Jasper looking up from his desk, smiling glad to see him. Jasper saying . Something very important. The most important message, the secret message.  He couldn’t hear him . But jasper keeps smiling , keeps talking . What was the message, jasper? What was the message? The dream had been beautiful at the beginning, terrible at the end, but he longed  to be in it again. If only he hadn’t awakened.”  

-“Jasper sitting on the bed and taking off his shoes ,smiling, ‘you’re okay pete, you’re better than a hundered of those slobs put together. Tomorrow I’ll tell them so myself‘ jasper’s strong, hard body as he got into bed ,so different from peter’s. Strong, to protect him to take care of him. Jasper, who always took care of him”.

-“He wanted to think about oliver it  it was like having Jasper back again. It would disturb him to see Oliver go off with Abigail… the rejection quite painful. It had never been like that with Jasper…jasper.

-The room they shared with rainbow colors, murmuring comforting words to him , enclosing and protecting him. He let himself drift into it, the rainbow hues dimness.”

-“No one ever depended on him. It was he who always depended on others, on Jasper. jasper, who had always taken care of him. Jasper…”

later he admits his feelings for Jasper to Lola/el. Lola and Pete are plantonic soulmates. The only reason why they survive and don’t succumb to their dark and violent urges/psychological brainwashing is because of each other. Lola has  brown hair and eyes and has a buzzcut and is heavily implied to be a lesbian (as she is the only girl in the group who is not fooled by Oliver’s ‘nice guy act’. Which makes the other girls ‘suspicious’ and alienate her). Also this was written in the 70s… she has a buzzcut and is said to “look like a boy”. It’s not that subtle! There was a reason that the author whose first name was WILLIAM (was suspected to be gay/bi when he was alive)!  XD

-Peter says “ he was my friend we were always together . Jasper his name was jasper .in the dream he’s taking care of me’. Now he was beginning to cry, his throat constricting and tears welling up in his eyes .’taking care of me … he always took care of me… taking care of me, and , and … and loving me’. ‘”It was the best time in your life’ she murmured’. ‘Yes’ “

* cough protective childhood friend, rainbows, ‘best time of your life = best thing I ever did.

S3 ending (byler centric ending)

When we first see Mike during the Hopper mologue, the moving truck leaves. “Like you’re pulling away from me or something. I miss playing board games every night (d &d)”…  (the last thing they talked about was Will visiting to play d&d and their fight this season started because of a disagreement about d&d.)

Then Mike looks back at the Byers house (just lingers there and looks back as his friends leave) like how Will did seeing Mike hold hands with El and leave .  “But I know you’re getting older, growing, changing. I guess, if I’m being really honest, that’s what scares me. I don’t want things to change.”Mike , like Will “doesn’t want things things to change”. He doesn’t want his  his feelings of friendship to become romantic in regards to Will,  it “scares” him (especially in rural 80s Indiana). Right after Will cries,  it immediately switches to Mike hugging his mom- to mirror the time he thought Will died in s1 “So I think maybe that’s why I came in here, to try and maybe stop that change. To turn back the clock. To make things go back to how they were.” He goes back to his mother for comfort, like he did the 1st time he lost Will. But also to reverse back time, to s1, before he realized his feelings for Will were romantic.  When things were simpler. 

“But I know that’s naive. It’s just not how life works. It’s moving, always moving, whether you like it or not. And yeah, sometimes it’s painful. Sometimes it’s sad. And sometimes, it’s surprising. Happy.” (byler endgame)

Will (in s2) even says everyone treats him like ‘freak/ that something is wrong with him’ (purposely leaving out Mike from the discussion). And then when Will disparages himself as a freak,and Jonathan agrees but asks Will, ‘who would he rather be friends with-  David Bowie (who was openly bi since the 70s) or Kenny Rogers’? And when Will says Bowie, Jonathan agrees saying “see, it’s no contest”.

So,  it’s just another coincidence that when Will ‘dies’ (in s1) a David Bowie song (‘we can be heroes’) plays. And as Mike hugs his mom, mourning Will -  a romantic lyric from the song plays during the hug?“And we kiss, as though nothing could fall. And the shame”  (which is heavily queer coded)?

And then in the last ep (in s3) Mike mirrors this scene in s1, hugging his mom, since he feels like he’s losing Will all over again. And right after the hug (‘we can be heroes’) plays again!?  I’m not saying byler is endgame. But- WAIT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I’M SAYING! XD

These men literally invented ‘hetero-baiting’ (with Robin & Steve) and you think they’re going to queer bait?!

Also, if Will was a girl named ‘Willow” no one would call byler ‘delusional’ ! Even the most casual viewer would say it’s obvious they’d end up together in the end!

If the witness said about El in s1 , “ same height… it could be the Byers girl”, instead of ‘boy’ (pointing out the resemblance).  Mike only meeting El cause he was looking for Willow. Proclaiming “i’m the only one who cares about Willow!” . Mike getting into fights and getting upset (almost crying) about the bullies insulting Willow. Mike only getting angry at El when he thinks she lied about Willow being alive. Mike being the only boy who has a scene dedicated to his loss of her (with the same romantic lyrics playing). Mike having a whole binder of her drawings and caressing one of the drawings, after he thinks she died.  Mike being the only one of her friends to stay awake at the hospital, waiting for her to wake up- so he can see her and hug her first. People probably would of started shipping it the second Willow stared at him and was the only one who didn’t lie to him, in the first ep! Another parallel to El!

If Will was Willow, the majority of the fandom would be byler shippers. Think about it! . Mike having s2 byler scenes that are identical to s1 mileven scenes, and then additional unique byler scenes. Mike staying by Willow’s side 24 hours a day for several days (not even changing clothes), carrying her out of the hospital, grabbing her hand (with a zoom in shot),constantly asking her if she’s okay at least 5-7 times, putting his arm around her twice, being the only one who could tell something was off with her (and it wasn’t her normal type of quiet). Calling and running all the way to her house and banging on the door to check on her, desperate. Watching her sleep cause he’s so worried. That shed scene reminiscing about how they first met in perfect detail, saying “I asked, I asked if you wanted to be my friend. You said yes, you said yes. It was the best thing I’ve ever done. (like a marriage proposal)”  The “crazy together” scene. Them being close since they were 5 vs the girl he knew for a week (but is somehow in love with?). In s2 if Mike sadly watched Willow dance with another guy , while Dustin does the same to Max. Forget it- everyone would already know mileven would be doomed to fail.

And again think about s3 if Will was a girl.They parallel the (comedic) mileven breakup vs (the sad/serious) byler breakup. Then Mike just complains and burps on the couch vs apologizing to Willlow multiple times/even going into a storm to apologize a 2nd time (and to ‘talk’). Willow having a breakdown over the fight vs El laughing and high five-ing Max after.The shed vs the pool shed scene- “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “you’re the most important thing in the world to me”, “blank makes you crazy’ (as El stares confused) vs “crazy together’ (where Willow says ‘yeah, crazy together’). Mike going on ‘movie dates with Willlow all the time’ right after making out with El. The last mileven kiss where Mike has his eyes open the whole time,  and doesn’t kiss back. And saying he doesn’t remember saying  “I love” you to El (and doesn’t say ‘I love you’ back). Right after having a talk with Willow about playing games when she comes back (the crux of their fight). Mike getting excited that he’ll be able to visit El and Willow on Thanksgiving and them visiting him on Christmas (those are holidays where family usually introduces their S.O.) Having the last scene of Mike,  be him looking back at Willow’s house, and have that whole monologue about “feelings changing”, and then he goes to hug his mom like the s1 byler scene where he thought Willow was dead, signifying he lost her again. And that’s not even all the scenes- and every time byler won by a landslide. If Will was a girl, we wouldn’t be ‘delusional’! It would be obvious writing on the wall, that Mike would eventually choose Willow over El by the end of the series.

But since they are 2 boys, we’re delusional, because queer kids don’t exist … apparently.

*S3-I’m not repeating my literal essays but they’re probably better than this post so here are the links to pretty much all my s3 byler meta.  (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x)

gif credit: 1st few have the name stark in the gifs, 2nd byler gif (found on wheheart.com- user dream_daisy, not sure if they also have a Tumblr , 3rd livelovecaliforniadreams, 4th &10th Cath-avery, 5& 6th unknown, 7-9 eggogorgon . Tell me if you know the unknown one so I can give credit , please.

[kaypeace21]

I feel like you’re the right person to tell this to, but Mileven makes me REALLY uncomfortable. I’m an adult fan (I watch the show mostly for Winona Ryder) and I felt really gross watching the scenes of them making out, knowing that adults wrote those scenes and shot them, and how many people would’ve been there during shooting. Please tell me I’m not alone.

I agree that it makes me feel uncomfortable and gross, too. But, I actually think the Duffers wanted you to feel uncomfortable (and I think mileven was portrayed as ‘off’ and ‘too much’ for that reason).  Think about it, when it comes to almost all their other cannon couples- they use kisses sparingly. Jancy has only kissed, romantically 3x (2 of those times were simple kisses- not full blown make-outs), and their first kiss (and only make-out) was quickly obscured as they closed the door.

(x)

Jopper has never kissed, and lumax had an innocent kid-kiss once (and even when back together in s3, they never kissed).

The duffers are sparing with kiss- scenes, unless they are portraying a relationship that won’t work.Most of the relationships that are cannon (with the exception of mileven) focus almost completely on how they communicate with one another- and relationships that lack this (spend most of their time just making-out).  What’s the ship that has had the most kiss scenes in the whole series? In the bathroom, library, bedroom(s), garage, in a car, multiple places at school (and has probably had at least 6-7 kiss scenes or more - and  who even made out on a bed to corny romance music just like mileven (pre-s3?)- Stancy.  Heck, we even see Nancy lose her v**ginity to Steve- but didn’t see Jancy do-it. Because we aren’t supposed to focus on their physical relationship but their emotional one.

Stancy and mileven have had alot of parallels. The wheelers (Nancy and Karen) already made a habit of pretending they’re in love with people- because that relationship is what is deemed the most socially acceptable. Nancy rebelling with the cool-jock (Steve), trying to not be like her parents. And Karen with Ted. Nancy even says in s1 “I don’t think my parents ever loved each other. My mom was young. My dad was older… but he had a cushy job, money, came from a good family. So they bought a house at the end of the cul de sac and started their nuclear family”. Ted  & Steve were paralleled to each other, having them both eat chicken as their partners  (Karen/Nancy) stormed off upset (and they did nothing). And El was paralleled to Ted by sitting in Ted’s laz-boy chair. And Dustin even refers to mileven as “bullshit” just like Nancy described Stancy as “bullshit”.  

(x)

So to reiterate , Mike is doing the same thing as Nancy & Karen- being with someone they don’t love. And only staying with them becuause they are the more socially acceptable/’correct’ option…because El’s a girl (unlike Will). 

Also, the fact that Murray’s line to Nancy sounds more queer coded than applicable to Nancy - “ Afraid that if you’d accept yourself for who you really are (cough queer-subtext), and retreated back to… name, name? Steve. Steve! we like Steve (El) but we don’t love Steve (El).”

So, the over-top kisses were done as yet another parallel. And again s2 made fun of (kids who are) mileven shippers ( I’ll talk about that later). 

But , S3 was the Duffers criticizing the adult mileven shippers- who are obsessed with mileven kissing. 

Like don’t get me wrong there’s some weird byler shippers (but the majority of byler shippers focus on the emotional not physical part of their relationship).

Think about it. Look how they framed this scene of mileven kissing- making us the viewer feel like a peeping-tom, watching them through the crack in the door. Then El sees the viewer and subsequently gasps and slams the door in front of our faces. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE! 

The Duffers and their crew (like good directors) were manipulating your emotions- without you realizing how or why. They were also calling-out the adult-mileven shippers (not all of them but the ones) who are obsessed with their kiss scenes - creepy AF. The duffers never even wrote for mileven to kiss in s2- but Millie said they “had to for the fans”. And so the Duffers conceded and put in a song about a bad-breakup during the mileven kiss - and their backup-song-choice was even about a divorce. XD

So the 2 mileven make-out scenes were supposed to make you uncomfortable- because not only are they kids (who are making out on a bed , but the way they were framed).

So that 3rd and last kiss. Was 100% supposed to make you uncomfortable (but just for a different reason).

Like it or not Mike either forgot that he said he “loved her”. Or just LIED to El (despite this being the reason they broke up in the first place)- and pretends he didn’t confess to her . He  has never said “ I love you’, once to her face! He even tries to take the words back (before the kiss) and says about the prior love confession “ Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…”  and starts to scratch his head and says everything he said at the cabin was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t really remember. What did I say exactly?”

  And , after that discussion, they frame El (before she says “I love you”), strangely. They make El look large and imposing, as she approaches the motionless Mike (who feels both physically & emotionally cornered) .You the viewer, subconsciously are feeling claustrophobic/trapped/and stuck along with Mike. Which is why you are so uncomfortable watching this scene, unfold.

(x)

When she says “I love you”, he looks genuinely confused- or just uncomfortable ( his eyebrows are still scrunched-up).

And then… cue the most awkward kiss in the history as Mike doesn’t kiss her back and keeps his eyes open the whole time… it’s just weird/awkward (sorry).

(x) 

We even see El’s reaction , after the kiss (happy, smiling and giddy). But then we blur the screen to see Mike’s opposing expression. He looks confused, bewildered and even furrows his brows again.

And In s2 they insulted the young-girls who are obsessed with mileven (since they can frankly,  be the most toxic of the milevens). 

In the Montauk pitch (later named Stranger things) they describe the Mike and El dynamic by saying “ If Mike is the Eliot of our show,Eleven is our Et.” (AKA they’re from different planets)

And In s2 , Erica  is forcing He-man and barbie to make out. Lucas angrily separates the two. And then this discussion happens.

Erica: “Hey , They’re in love!”

Lucas (livid- and standing right next to a rainbow): “No, actually, they’re not. They don’t even exist on the same planet.”

And again the Duffers have described El in multiple interviews as “similar to ET”, and “like an alien” (even after s3). And in s1, they alluded to El being like “an alien from another planet”  by comparing her to ET (with the Reese’s pieces vs eggos moments,  the bike-scene, and the makeover). 

S3 portrayed mileven as toxic in a myriad of ways. And these other examples, might be stretches, but Mike saying to Max in s2  “How can I hate you, I don’t know you.” could also be a ‘dig’ at mileven.(Because: he knew Max for a week, just as long as El- so how could he hate or love either of them?)

And Mike saying to Dustin incredulously “ You have a bond? Just cause he likes nougat (eggos)?” Could be another subtle jab.

Especially since it’s cannon Mike isn’t the biggest fan of eggos to begin with.

Don’t even get me started at how much the st writing staff- makes fun of mileven - more details about it here.  But just one example is when the ‘Stranger writers’ ( the official account of the ST writing staff ) got into a huge text-chain with ‘Stranger Things’ (the official account of the show) where they just low-key dragged mileven together.

Mileven was never meant to be end game-they planned for her to die in season 1 (which I’m glad didn’t happen). But, regardless, it was always supposed to be a simple fleeting crush … but the viewers decided to take it way too seriously. After s3, the Duffers reiterate that mileven is just that.

 And the Duffers are smart guys, I bet they’re are 100% aware of how toxic the milevens are to bylers (and how they can also be creepy and harass Finn). Not to mention, as writers, who put so much effort into the show- having people hyper-fixate on mileven (which they don’t even like), instead of the plot must drive them insane.Especially when those shippers can be toxic, homophobic, and entitled. The fact people don’t realize the Duffers hate mileven- is honestly hilarious XD.

[kaypeace21]

why is there so much denial of Will being gay?? Like, nothing Will has done has shown him to be anytging but possibly gay. Like, nobody thinks he'z gay because he's a nerd that doesn't have a girlfriend!! We think he's gay because of all the fucking subtext!!!!

There are a few reasons for this, and they’re all (for the most part) rooted in homophobia. 1) There are those who (may or may not) notice the subtext, but ignore it with the excuse of “he’s too young; stop sexualizing him!”. All while shipping lumax, and mileven. Whether they want to admit it or not, this is homophobic! They view (subconscious or otherwise) being queer as inherently sexual, dirty, and adult. And that only straight relationships can be pure and innocent and based on compatible personalities. Straight kids can have innocent crushes (but in their eyes) queer kids can’t- they may not even exist, to them. 

 2) There are some mileven shippers (who whether they want to admit it) hate Will, because the possibility he has powers or is gay- threatens their precious het ship. Because a lot of them don’t see El as her own person (just a part of their ship) or a vessel for being a badass with powers. They don’t appreciate her for the nuanced character she is.  They either get angry at the idea of Will being gay or having powers, or are only happy with him being queer if he’s sad and in an unrequited one-sided love/ or is single forever. Or they’ll say “why don’t you just ship him with someone else… like Dustin?” Ignoring the fact Dustin hasn’t been queer coded like Mike (or had romantically coded scenes with Will), or that people ship byler for Will and Mike, not cause it’s simply m/m. I mean, can you imagine byler shippers saying ‘Just ship El with Dustin, it’s a guy and girl… it’s practically the same thing”? No, of course not! It shows their bias- and how they feel privileged and entitled to their straight ship even though there are millions of similar ships in media to choose from- unlike queer ships which are far and few in between. However, we’re supposed to be the ones who pick another option- and are told our ships are ‘all the same’. Whether they are aware of this bias, they consider queer ships a joke, and all the same.

3) Those who relate to Will and his struggles,  hate the idea of relating to a queer character. There is a reason why shows like ‘Will &Grace’ in the 90s were popular, but even today the second a character who people assumed was straight is revealed as lgbt+ viewers get angry! It’s because they feel ‘tricked’ into liking, relating and empathizing with a character that they would otherwise have immediately put in a ‘box’ and  distanced themselves from . Whether they are aware of it or not, they would immediately attribute stereotypes to them and never try to empathize with them, because ‘they’re gay, and ‘how can I relate to that’? They don’t want to relate to them (because subconscious or otherwise) they think being gay is bad or just too foreign.They don’t see queer people as full-fledged people. They’re just gay- nothing more.

Which is why when they angrily say “he’s just afraid to grow up, HE’S NOT GAY!”  They are essentially saying a gay, abused kid, who has ptsd, and was violated by the MF (and was also hinted m**ested by Lonnie too) can’t be afraid to grow up, since he lost his childhood. Only straight people have these type of human-fears and characterizations!

Forget the fact, that Will also wouldn’t want to grow up- because than he’d have to acknowledge his sexuality (at a time where all you heard about gay men was they were evil , mentally ill, going to hell and dying of aids as a punishment by god). Not to mention Will’s ptsd and the fact he lost 2 years of his childhood on top of that.He even says “I’m not … going to fall in love” (not convincingly) , right after the movie date with Mike.

4) They’re so used to straight media, and everyone being presumed straight and having media catered to them (the straight audience)- That they’ll ignore or miss every hint there is a queer character. 

So what are the hints of Will being gay (or at least- some other lgbt identity.

Called many homophobic slurs  since s1 ( specifically ”queer, fag, fairy, and gay”) by his dad and bullies. Jonathan in s1 tells Will to “not like things just because people tell you you’re supposed to, especially not him” ( ‘him’ referring to their dad). Is positioned behind a rainbow apple poster in the av room (ref. to Alan Turning the gay creator of computers), dances with a girl with a rainbow hair-clip, has rainbow bandaids, has his mom says she’s ”so proud” (lgbt+ pride ref) of the rainbow ship he drew . When Will disparages himself as a “freak”, Jonathan asks Will, who would you rather be friends with-  David Bowie (who was openly bi since the 70s) or Kenny Rogers? Will says Bowie, and Jonathan agrees saying “see, it’s no contest”. In the pitch to netflix the Duffers described Will as having “sexual identity issues”. In the leaked s2 snowball script it says “he’s not looking at the cute girl- but Mike.”

All of s2 directly paralleled ‘romantic s1 mileven scenes’ to ‘supposedly platonic byler scenes’. No joke, they had identical scenes, with almost identical framing and dialogue, but it’s all dismissed as friendship (even though the scenes are identical).Byler was also  paralleled to Jancy, Stancy, Jopper, bob/joyce and others. . You can headcannon Will as whatever you want, but like it or not- Will is queer and m/m! We could debate his exact queer sexual identity , but Will was never written and will never be written to be ‘straight’! Stay mad!

If Will was Wilma, the majority of the fandom would be byler shippers. Think about it! Mike having byler scenes that are identical to s1 mileven scenes, and then additional unique byler scenes. Mike staying by Wilma’s side 24 hours a day for several days (not even changing clothes), carrying her out of the hospital, grabbing her hand (with a zoom in shot),constantly asking her if she’s okay at least 5-7 times, putting his arm around her twice, being the only one who could tell something was off with her (and it wasn’t her normal type of quiet). Calling and running all the way to her house and banging on the door to check on her, desperate. Proclaiming “i’m the only one who cares about Wilma!” Watching her sleep cause he’s so worried, that shed scene reminiscing about how they first met in perfect detail, saying “I asked, I asked if you wanted to be my friend. You said yes, you said yes. It was the best thing I’ve ever done. (like a marriage proposal)”  The “crazy together” scene. Them being close since they were 5 vs the girl he knew for a week (but is somehow in love with?). If the witness said about El in s1 , “ same height… it could be the Byers girl”, instead of ‘boy’ (pointing out the resemblance). Mike getting into fights and getting upset (almost crying) about the bullies insulting Wilma. Mike having a whole binder of her drawings and caressing one of the drawings, after he thinks she died.  Being the only one of her friends to stay awake at the hospital, waiting for her to wake up- so he can see her and hug her first. Almost everyone would be team byler if Will was a girl- they probably would of started shipping it the second Wilma stared at him and was the only one who didn’t lie to him, in the first ep! Another parallel to El! 

And again think about s3 if Will was a girl.They paralleled the (comedic) mileven breakup vs (the sad/serious) byler breakup. Then Mike just complained and burped on the couch vs apologizing to Willma multiple times/even going into a storm to apologize a 2nd time (and to ‘talk’). Willma having a breakdown over the fight vs El laughing and high five-ing Max after.The shed vs the pool shed scene- “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “you’re the most important thing in the world to me”, “blank makes you crazy’ (as El stares confused) vs “crazy together’ (where Wilma says ‘yeah, crazy together). Mike going on ‘movie dates with Willma all the time’ right after making out with El. The last mileven kiss where Mike has his eyes open the whole time, doesn’t kiss back, and says he doesn’t remember saying “I love her” to El (and doesn’t say ‘I love you’ back). Right after having a talk with Wilma about playing games when she comes back (the crux of their fight). Mike getting excited that he’ll be able to visit El and Wilma on Thanksgiving and them visiting him on Christmas (those are holidays where family usually introduces their S.O.) Having the last scene of Mike,  be him looking back at Wilma’s house, and have that whole monologue in that scene be about “feelings changing”, and then he goes to hug his mom like the s1 byler scene where he thought Wilma was dead. And that’s not even all the scenes- and every time byler won by a landslide. If Will was a girl, it would be obvious writing on the wall, that Mike would eventually choose Wilma over El by the end of the series.

But since they are 2 boys, we’re delusional, because queer kids don’t exist … apparently.