#in the novel lwj makes that change before wwx dies

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

MDZS – Prologue thoughts + analysis

"Great news, Wei Wuxian has died!"

(In was, in fact, not great news)

Jokes aside though, what a great way to start your novel – it immediately intrigues you, especially since you likely know WWX is the main character from the blurb at least*. It also introduces one of the main themes of the novel right off the bat, ie scapegoating and mob mentality – not a word is wasted. And I love how it clearly lays out all the things that will be explored/contextualised/proven false in later chapters. In order:

Jiang clan 'adopting' and teaching WWX (proven false/contextualised) – they did take him in and teach him, but it wasn't a full adoption, he wasn't of equal status. Though it is true that he'd be living on the streets otherwise. Part of the reason rumours are so hard to distrust is because there's a grain of truth in them. Also, it's cool how apart from his death, this is the first thing we hear, and the first flashback also takes place in this period!

WWX defecting (contextualised) and leading to the Jiang Clan's near-extermination (proven false i'd argue, at the very least heavily contextualised). It's interesting that they seem to asociate the fall of Lotus Pier, which happened a few years before, with WWX's ('evil') actions now, though it does make sense – but also I wonder how did people came to that conclusion? Did they just make associations themselves (WWX is evil –> WWX was taken in by the Jiangs –> Lotus Pier was destroyed a few years ago –> WWX was there –> WWX caused it)? Did JC mention it to people deliberately, since we know he blames WWX for it? Did people hear JC mentioning it more privately (expressing anger, he does not hold it in) and spread the rumour themselves?

WWX's 'demonic' (ghost) cultivation being the reason for him turning evil and his eventual downfall (proven false, there are some great metas on how guidao isn't actually corrupting. See: how WWX keeps using it in his second life and is completely unaffected, and how in his first life he was suffering from way more stress and a lot of trauma – especially SunShot era – which could easily have explained the seeming change in behaviour during that time. Same for Qiongqi Path and Nightless City)

WWX massacring 3000-or-5000 people at Nightless City (heavily contextualised, reasoned with a little during the Second Siege. I have more to say on this but we'll get to it in time).

And then various other things, eg emphasis on how necessary it is to cultivate the righteous path or else – despite the discovered irony of 'righteous' cultivators besieging and killing 50 innocent people, while the 'demonic' cultivator is the only one protecting them – along more information about WWX's death (most of which is confirmed by passing words/thoughts of WWX) and the destruction of the Yin Tiger Tally.

But the things listed above are said first, which is quite important. MDZS is very much a mystery story, both for WWX, LWJ and often the Juniors uncovering the clues about the missing body parts – but also for us readers, as we find and piece together the missing knowledge and context WWX's past, and the full story hidden behind it. And it's so cool how MXTX lays out what we'll explore (our leads, if you will) so clearly, within the first moments of the first chapter of the book.

(If you want to go there, just like how WWX found his first lead/motivation to investigate within the first few (relative) moments of being brought back to life, with the hand at Mo Manor, but I might be reaching a little too far... anyway parallels in MDZS narrative structure I love you so much)

Other details in this chapter:

I love how this comparison is used:

Having read the book, we know there was a very recent war, so this speed/comparison would be very familiar to everyone! A subtle way of setting up and showing the efforts of the Sunshot Campaign, though you wouldn't recognise it the first time round.

Admittedly we don't know how subjective/exaggerated this POV is, but there is evidence for the fact that hundreds of smaller clans participated (or at least wanted to participate before Nightless City..?), judging by the fact that three thousand cultivators gathered to plan to kill him. Surely that's not just the Great Sects. But on the topic of that, yup, all four sects were involved (I don't think it's disproven later, and all four sects did gather at Nightless City as well**), there's no one 'good one' that wasn't corrupted or complicit.

Even by just reading what the crowd says, it's cool how you can tell that at least some of what's being said is untrustworthy:***

Already, they're contradicting information and exaggerating rumours – also note that later on at the Guanyin Temple (Hatred 2), LXC, someone I trust more, says three thousand when talking about the number of cultivators at Nightless City (even not considering what WWX said during the Second Siege). That contradiction and exaggeration does make you doubt what they're saying a little already! As well as the fact you know there's more to the story due to, again, WWX being the main character.

This is heightened by everyone saying, later, that if WWX returned, 'the cultivation world, or even all of mortal land, would be faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair' – something immediately disproven in the beginning of the next chapter, immediately suggesting that a lot of these rumours are much more untrustworthy than they seem.

His death here is made even worse by the belief that (iirc) the state of your body after death affects the reincarnation of your soul...? That definitely contributes to the 'karma' the people mention in screenshot after.

This hurts already, but hurts even more after knowing WWX's fear of dogs due to them always biting him when searching for food...

--

*I wouldn't be surprised if this opening plays a big role in why why MDZS seems to have the biggest following of all MXTX's books. Openings are probably the most important part of the novel, since you start with no attachments that would make you keep reading, and MDZS absolutely nails it. I love it so much!

**Off-topic, but I do wonder how painful being at the meeting at Nightless City (before WWX showed up) was for LWJ...

***I'm curious about this extract, actually – the 7S translations has an extra line/distributes this differently? If anyone knows the original Chinese, I'd love to know which one is more accurate.

[annalacerda17]

I think it's partly a case of a younger audience reading a book meant for adults and failing to grasp it fully because it doesn't follow the same genre norms as books actually made for teens, since it's not.

Wangxian's romance is actually very mature, despite WWX's playful personality. MXTX takes into account things like timing, maturity, and self understanding in her writing of wangxian. As young boys feeling attracted to someone for the first time, it makes perfect sense that neither of them can quite figure out what it is they're feeling and how to handle it. They're fifteen, immature and inexperienced, and living in a homophobic society. It only makes sense that they don't get together at this point. They're not ready.

There are also other reasons: they grew up in very different environments, under very different rules - where LWJ grew up surrounded by very strict and well defined rules with well defined punishments for failing to follow them, WWX grew up in a place full of vague unspoken rulesand where punishment was decided according to the moods of the Madam Yu rather than his actions - and that translates into a communication problem that they need to overcome. There's the war, which takes up most of their time and energy, creates circumstances which makes true, genuine communication between them impossible, and leaves them both with a whole lot of trauma and trust issues they need to work through before getting into any kind of romantic relationship - seriously, YA novels love to lie about this, but MXTX had the right of it. Anyone with that much trauma and trust issues would need to do some soul-searching and just work through that before trying to commit to a relationship, otherwise they'd just bring all of that into the relationship and create issues between the partners. It can be overcome, but it takes a lot of time and work. However, before they have the chance to do that, WQ comes to WWX for help, which leads to WWX discovering about the Wen Remnants' situation, and then it becomes a moral issue: WWX cannot, in good conscience, abandon them. Meanwhile, there's a lot of misinformation being spread about WWX and his Wens, and LWJ doesn't have the power to change anything. By the time he makes up his mind to help him anyway, it's already too late (but to be clear, if LWJ had been by WWX's side from the beginning it wouldn't have changed the outcyfor the better. At most, LWJ and LSZ would have died alongside WWX).

In the 13 years WWX was dead, they both had the time to process the trauma. We know WWX remembers something of the time he was dead, and was aware (though we don't know to what degree). And obviously, LWJ was alive doing good deeds, teaching younglings and raising bunnies. Going where the chaos is. So when they meet again, this time as adults, the first difference is that they've had time to process trauma, and the second difference is that they're now capable of communicating effectively - that's something that comes with maturity and life experience.

After WWX's resurrection, they have time together where they're relatively safe and WWX is able to explore his feelings safely. They're able to get to know each other better beyond the attraction and admiration they already held for each other, they are able to unravel the secrets and misunderstandings of the past. They are in a much better position to develop their feelings for each other, in every way. Theirs is not a teenage love, despite their first meeting and initial attraction having started in their teenage years, theirs a mature love between adults who know themselves and what life they want.

If someone reads this books with teenage romance mindset, they won't be able to understand wangxian.

When you see someone talking about how novel WWX didn't develop feelings for LWJ as early on as cql WWX... And novel WWX is an oblivious idiot 😬 Not a new argument.. but what the hell?!

Firstly, how can he be BOTH?! He either developed feelings for LWJ and is "oblivious" OR he "didn't have feelings for LWJ" until his second life or when you deem him to do so. Make your mind up! Both are wrong, but at least stick to one!

Even if you're inept at reading subtext or just "oblivious" yourself and can't see WWX's rather apparent infatuation with LWJ right from the very first time they met (which even JC can see to a certain extent!) - WWX literally confesses later in the novel (and extras!) that in hindsight, he now knows he had a huge crush on LWJ from the beginning. There are a number of reasons WWX doesn't fully acknowledge his feelings towards LWJ in his first life and quite frankly, being oblivious is NOT one of them.

The irony that these people are in fact the oblivious ones does not escape me... 🙄😤

[imaginaryelle]

I just re-watched THAT scene and a thought hit me: Lan Wangji just stands there watching Wei Wuxian fall from the cliff... Why doesn't he jump onto his sword and swoops down to at least try to save him? Or is he all out of spiritual power? Or does it simply take to long to start and rev the sword? Not saying it's a plothole, I was just wondering...

I mean, I think this is a fair question and I know I’ve seen it discussed elsewhere. I just can’t seem to find the post or remember if any conclusions were reached, so I’m excited to dive into this. As always if anyone has insights or headcanons they want to add on to this, please do.

Because I like pictures, here’s ep 33 Lan Wangji holding his sword and staring in horror as Wei Wuxian falls (what is Jiang Cheng thinking? Who knows.) 

Why isn’t Lan Wangji doing anything? He just stands there for long enough that Jiang Cheng backs away and leaves him on the outcropping, all alone.

Poor guy.

Okay, moving on. I think there are at least two ways to approach this, and one is from the production perspective (since this cliff encounter is a thing that only happens in the drama) and the other is from the in-universe perspective (aka, Doyalist vs Watsonian), so I’m going to look at both.

For the production pov, there’s really only one scene (I think) where we see anyone actually riding a sword in the drama, and it’s when they’re confronting the water demon/abyss in Caiyi (ep 5). At that point there’s no prep time, everyone just jumps up and then steps onto their swords (which is actually even more ridiculous to me than the image had already been in the novel because I thought they were at least riding on the scabbard but no! Riding the bare blade like a skateboard. I love it.)

How majestic.

Lan Xichen is the only graceful and cool person here. The only other sword-riding shot in this scene that shows more of a person’s body than their head and shoulders is when Lan Wangji drags three people into the air at once and we get a brief glimpse of Su She’s feet kicking wildly.

So, based on this scene’s execution and the general scarcity of other sword-flying scenes (even with the Nightless City confrontation, Lan Wangji just flies in with his quqin, no sword under his feet), my out-of-universe theory would be a combination of budget and aesthetic at play. If the production can get by on wire work with super extra long jumps that don’t seem to require actually riding the sword, they will. It’s logistically simpler, and it frankly looks better on screen. It’s also a staple of the entire film genre, whereas this sword thing is not, so the crew and effects people would have more experience with it as well. (In-universe I have a lot of questions about Wei Wuxian’s retained ability to do those jumps. Do they not use spiritual energy? Does he still have spiritual energy, just not a golden core? Is he using resentful energy instead? How does this work?)

From a more story-side view on the production, they’re working against the fact that they changed the plot to add Lan Wangji’s presence at Wei Wuxian’s death and they want to capitalize on that relationship, so having Wei Wuxian knock himself over the edge as he destroys the seal (or something where he steps back as Jiang Cheng rushes him or any other number of possibilities) no longer fits with the emotional beats they’re trying to hit. Also they really need Wei Wuxian to die here for the plot to function. Having Lan Wangji mount a sword and swoop down to try and save him again just adds extra complications and delays the desired outcome of WWX = dead and LWJ = distraught. In that sense, it really does start to look like a plot hole, because it feels like they’re ignoring the capabilities of a character in order to get the result they need. I do think they try to address this, but since multiple people have this question and I personally had to watch the scene more than once while actively thinking about it to notice all the relevant details… the efficacy of those efforts is maybe questionable. (Also like.. why does Jiang Cheng wait three days to go look for Wei Wuxian’s remains? Why is anyone waiting at all? Why is anyone surprised they can’t find a corpse when the visual we get implies Wei Wuxian is falling into lava? There are many, many questions that can be asked here and for a lot of them the out-of-universe answer is probably going to resemble “because the plot/original source material demands it” without much helpful in-universe support.)

In-universe (and probably more pertinent to your question), yeah, Lan Wangji could be low on spiritual power (and upon rewatch, I think he genuinely is). He could be physically exhausted as well as injured, too. For someone who carried three people in two hands 2-3 years ago and canonically has only gotten stronger since, he sure is having trouble pulling one person up over the side of a cliff. And that exhaustion really isn’t outside the realm of possibility, no matter how strong and powerful he is. He just traveled pretty far! If the theories that he found A-Yuan before coming to Nightless City are true (since he’s not injured in those flashbacks), he likely spent a ton of spiritual power even before getting into this battle where he first confronted Wei Wuxian and then started fighting pretty much everyone on the field by himself. Then, in a moment of fear-induced distraction, he gets injured! He’s actively bleeding! So yeah. He could definitely just be physically exhausted.

All that blood loss is not a good sign, and it actually speeds up (visually) as he expends this effort. We can see his arm trembling all throughout this scene, and then his grip slips (thus the face). Even after that he slips again, not losing his grip, but losing the strength to hold himself up at all. In the end he’s literally just lying on the rock depending on gravity to keep him in place and putting everything else he has into holding on to Wei Wuxian. He can’t do more than glare in Jiang Cheng’s general direction and tell him to stop.

Bichen is right there. If he had spiritual power left, I think he’d probably be sending his sword out to block Jiang Cheng’s angle of attack. That, or he needs two hands to accomplish such an action (It doesn’t require hand motions later/in the future, but maybe he develops that skill precisely because of these events). So yes. He’s physically exhausted. He’s spiritually exhausted. But I think there’s more going on here, too: He’s also at the end of his rope emotionally, and that’s how he ends up standing there, horrified and unmoving.

He’s had a rough time recently: Everyone hates his best and only friend/love of his life, and he has to listen to them call for his death/judgement at fancy dinner party meetings on and off for over a year. No one will listen to him when he tries to present a different view. Even his own brother is (not unreasonably) much more concerned about Lan Wangji’s personal safety than what his silence on this issue is costing him emotionally, and his uncle is distinctly unsupportive of the friendship from the beginning.

I think Lan Wangji spends a lot of time questioning his upbringing in those months (we see him actually verbally do so when he’s punished after Wei Wuxian’s death, but I think it starts well before that). What is right and wrong? Who decides it, and how? When does justice and holding people responsible for their actions turn over into unjust persecution? What is true, and what is a lie, and how much does that matter when weighed against social/political/spiritual harmony? These are concepts that are buried pretty deeply in the Lan Sect’s teachings but the world is twisting all of them before his eyes, and I have to think that takes a toll on him. Additionally, just as things start looking up (they let him write the letter to invite Wei Wuxian to Jin Ling’s celebration! They listen to him, other people support his idea!), he has to deal with the facts that:

1) His best friend who he’s in love with just killed a bunch of people, including Jin ZiXuan and some of Lan Wangji’s own Sect brothers.

2) Wei Wuxian is clearly losing control of his resentment-based cultivation path, and is thus personally in danger on a spiritual level, and

3) Everyone now wants to kill Wei Wuxian again, possibly even more than they did before, and anyone who supports Wei Wuxian is an enemy of the entire cultivation world.

Later in the series, Lan Wangji says he regrets that he wasn’t at Wei Wuxian’s side at Nightless City. That he didn’t support him, despite what we see of him trying to help Wei Wuxian find Jiang Yanli and then, after she dies, stop him from killing himself. To me, this could very easily imply that Lan Wangji is still trying to walk a tightrope in those scenes, or perhaps trying to be a bridge. He’s deliberately not choosing a distinct side, because he refuses to hate and reject Wei Wuxian, but he’s also refusing to declare open support. He’s acting entirely on his own, in a balancing act between friendship and love vs his family, his entire life’s teachings, and all of his society. Certainly I find that sort of situation exhausting, and I’ve never had to do it for something so high-stakes or large-scale.

Then there’s the actual cliff scene itself, where he’s visibly desperate. How intense does an emotion have to be for Lan Wangji to so clearly show it?

Wei Ying, he says, come back. He knows Wei Wuxian is breaking down. He at the very least guesses that he’s going to do something wild like step off that outcropping, which is why he follows him in the first place. But he has no idea what to do, so he tries the same thing he’s been trying for years: Come with me. Let me help you. This is a bridge, and he’s offering to help Wei Wuxian cross it. But just like every other time he’s tried it since the Sunshot Campaign ended, it doesn’t work.

Note that Lan Wangji actually is flying here, without the sword, so if he doesn’t have any spiritual power when Jiang Cheng shows up, this is probably a last, desperate burst to go with this last, desperate act.

I don’t think he really has a plan here. Not a new one, anyway. This is a still a plea of Let me help you. And, notably, Wei Wuxian doesn’t accept his help.

Not once during this whole scene does Wei Wuxian reach up with his free hand or try to help Lan Wangji help him in any way. He smiles, and he says: Lan Zhan, let me go. Because he doesn’t want a bridge. He doesn’t want to go back. Honestly it’s a pretty explicit and heartbreaking message: Lan Wangji’s offer of help is not enough to make Wei Wuxian want to stay alive. Not right now. He needs more than that. He’s lost too much to believe, right now, that anyone is going to choose him and his side, or that he’s worth that effort. And to be clear, Lan Wangji isn’t even offering that in this situation. Wei Wuxian is one slippery handgrip away from death, and Lan Wangji is still not saying “You, I choose you.” From anything Wei Wuxian can be expected to infer, his offer here is no different than it’s ever been: let me show you the way back to the right path. Let me help you fit back into the world the way you used to. And Wei Wuxian can’t do that; he has no golden core, it’s literally impossible even if the rest of the world would let him try. But at this point he doesn’t want to go back either. He doesn’t even want to try. That world hates him, and willfully misunderstands him, and has taken too many people from him now for it to be worth staying in. He wants to die.

And then Jiang Cheng arrives.

Wei Wuxian’s reaction to his brother’s presence is to smile, say his name, and just–accept his hatred. He closes his eyes and waits for the sword to fall even as Lan Wangji calls for Jiang Cheng to stop. The only time he shows distress between stepping back off the cliff and his actual death is when Jiang Cheng twists his sword and compromises the stability of the outcropping so that Lan Wangji is also in danger.

I think it’s possible that if Jiang Cheng had also reached for him and tried to pull him back up, things might have gone differently. Maybe that would have been enough to alter Wei Wuxian’s thinking. But as it is, when Wei Wuxian falls, he falls with his limbs relaxed and a smile on his face. There’s no flailing and screaming like when he was thrown into the Burial Mounds (in ep 33. There’s some arm-waving in ep 1). And I think that moment of him pushing Lan Wangji back and then letting go, more than anything, is what stops Lan Wangji in his tracks, because Wei Wuxian could have saved himself. He had strength and energy left. Enough to push Lan Wangji up and back and nearly to a standing position. He could have accepted Lan Wangji’s help, easily. But he didn’t, because he wanted to die, despite all the effort and inner turmoil Lan Wangji has gone through on his behalf (most of which Wei Wuxian doesn’t know about but, still).

That’s a pretty serious emotional kick in the head. Lan Wangji cannot ignore, at this point, that even if he did have any physical or spiritual energy left, Wei Wuxian doesn’t want to be saved. And that’s when we get this face (actually from ep 1):

He has nothing left. He has at this point spent over a year, maybe two, trying to save someone who, when it came down to the final moment, didn’t want to be saved. There’s nothing more he can do, in this state of exhaustion and despair, and it wouldn’t matter if he tried.

Personally, I think he looks like he’s about to be sick, and I don’t think it’s just the image of Wei Wuxian falling and dying that’s working on him here. It’s also the knowledge that he fucked up. He didn’t do enough, or more accurately, didn’t do the right things, in order to encourage Wei Wuxian to keep fighting for himself or anyone else (I’m not saying this is a healthy or reasonable thought, I just think it’s a thought he’s having). And I think this realization plays directly into how he treats Wei Wuxian when he comes back sixteen years later. He knows that questioning Wei Wuxian on his path of cultivation doesn’t go where he wants it to, so he doesn’t do it. This time is going to be different. He’ll break rules. He’ll drink alcohol. He doesn’t scold Wei Wuxian for making dumb, selfless decisions like transferring the curse mark from Jin Ling’s leg to his own, he just accepts it and expresses concern over Wei Wuxian’s well being. He stops asking if he can help and starts just doing it: Wei Wuxian can’t walk so he’ll carry him. Wei Wuxian needs someone to speak for him, so Lan Wangji will do that, with his brother and with the whole cultivation world. And then we come to this:

This is exactly the same move. Wei Wuxian will protect Lan Wangji, but not himself.

But.

Lan Wangji is no longer trying to be a bridge. He’s not going to hold out his hand for Wei Wuxian to accept or disregard. He’s crossed over to be on Wei Wuxian’s side. And that’s what makes the difference.

[annalacerda17]

It boggles me that some people are still insisting WWX was oblivious because he didn't figure his and LWJ's feelings sooner, or that LWJ was a failed WWX in the past because he didn't make his feelings clear, etc.

When wangxian first met, they were teenagers. I think a lot of people forget that and demand an unreasonable level of maturity and even foresight from literal teenagers who just had their first crush and haven't had the time to figure out what their feelings are and what to do with it.

To begin with, LWJ didn't want WWX to know about his feelings because he thought WWX didn't like men - as WWX himself had told him. His actions didn't hint at anything either, unless you're LXC. And even LXC didn't know at first. In the novel, when WWX was a guest disciple at the Cloud Recesses LXC had seemed supportive of a friendship between wangxian, but didn't seem to know that LWJ actually had a crush. At least LXC's later actions indicate that he only found out at a later time. If even the people closest to LWJ didn't know, how could WWX? People seem to forget that despite the great admiration WWX had for LWJ and his crush on him, the two of them didn't actually know each other very well in WWX's first life. When they had the chance to spend more time together in WWX's second life, it only took a few months for them to get married, so I'd say they actually got together pretty quickly.

It's romantic and all to say that they took 13+ years to get together, but we can't forget that the reason for that is that WWX was literally dead during those 13 years, not secretly pinning from afar while trying and failing to figure out his and LWJ's feelings.

We should also remember that WWX died in his early 20s. WWX and LWJ met as teens. It's the most normal thing in the world to be a something of a mess at this age. It's already impressive that they weren't even more of a mess, considering the circumstances.

We can't foget that even before the SSC started, the tensions had been pretty high for more than a year. Later, with the war and it's aftermath, they didn't even have time to get their shit together before the world turned against WWX and the Wen Remnants. On top of everything, WWX had been dealing with the loss of his golden core at the time. With all that going on, not only they didn't have many chances to meet, WWX also had very little time to spend contemplating his feelings for his acquaintance. We, as readers, have the privilege of knowing LWJ is the novel's male lead, so we read his words and actions with that bias. WWX, however, didn't have that privilege.

WXX did the absolute best anyone could have under his circumstances. LWJ also did the best he could at the time - considering he was operating on incomplete information and wasn't actually in a position to do much. At most, he could've made a personal difference by standing by WWX sooner, but then, he would likely have died with him. LWJ himself had to figure out what to do with his feelings, which he believed were unrequited, in the middle of a catastrophic situation that kept escalating every time he blinked and had no solution. Where he was powerless to change anything, and where the person he loved and his family stood on opposite sides, all the while operating on incomplete information. When he was in his early 20s.

In any case, they both did the best they could, at an impressively young age. To want them to have time to figure out their personal feelings on top of that is asking for too much, inmy opinion.

[wangxianficfinder]

Fics Still Missing part 1

These fics are still missing!

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1. hi, happy holidays! i’m trying to find a fic where lan zhan is a single dad. he’s friends with yanli and it was a cute fic :3 there was one scene where wq drops by and realizes that lwj adopted ayuan? i think ayuan was adopted shortly after his parents died? I would appreciate any help in finding this #15 of post

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2. I still have a hope I can find this but there was a story where post-Sunshot Campaign an agreement was made with a Wen prisoner for WQ to transfer his core to WWX and when WWX goes to talk with the Wen before the surgery he finds out the prisoner is A-Yuan’s bio dad who volunteered. There is a chance this was a time travel fic but possibly not. YOU’RE AWESOME <;3 #7 of post

FOUND? Until The End  by abCEE (M, 365k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, war changes people,   resulting to OOC, no pinning, Established Relationship, Mpreg, Good   Uncle LQR, a little grey LWJ, a bit of JC bashing from LWJ, BAMF JYL, 16  years of yearning, mainly CQL verse but has scenes from the novel as   well, LSZ is WangXian’s Child, WWX Has a New Golden Core, Canon Rewrite,  Happy Ending, Fix-It of Sorts)  

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3. Hello there!!! Hope u r smiling everyday…  [Aw, thanks.]  Do u know a wangxian fic where jingyi is their biological child and he and sizhui timetravels into the past only to be picked up by a very pregnant wwx and (proud?? Smug??)lz .And lq even send a msg to lotus pier abt wwx-lz wedding bcz… grandchildren…. #2 of post

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4. Hey^^ Is this where I ask for ficfinder? I really really need help with this and you’re and everyone on this blog is doing such a marvelous job <3 So, I’ve been searching ages for this fic… it was during their time at Cloud Recesses. WWX’s pranks escalate after he shows LWJ porn, so he does small things that are affectionate? (This is where I’m not clear what exactly happened in the fic) and at the end I think it was, I remember WWX buying a red cloth/veil (he thinks it looks like a wedding veil) during a visit to Caiyi with NHS an JC and using it to prank LWJ by sitting on his bed and waiting for him, red veil over his head, greeting him as his ‘bride’ and LWJ reacts badly (thinking wwx cruel) and starts tearing up and I think at that point wwx realizes he went too far (he was panicking about making LWJ cry) and they communicate and get together. #8 of post

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5. Hi I was hoping that you could help me find a fic!! I remember that it was a modern au and wwx and lwj dated in high school but then broke up afterward. Wwx was broke in college but started a fashion channel on YouTube which blew up and now he’s kinda rich and part of the fashion community. He comes back to his home town for a reunion or smth and lwj is so happy about it and they manage to talk during the reunion. Lwj ends up kissing wwx but then wen chao walks in on them and accuses wwx of stealing his date bc lwj was forced to go to the party with wc. Everyone hears and gets mad at wwx, who gets pissed at lwj before running off. When Nhs finds out he chastised lwj for being an idiot. Uhh that’s all I remember! I think it was only a few chapters in when I read it tho…. Any help would be much appreciated 🙏🙏🙏 #6 of post

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6. hey mojo i love your account and YOU!!!! [back atcha, darlin] for the next ficfinder do you or any of your followers know this fic? it was modern au. all i can remember is that one day a burglar broke into cloud recesses and lwj fought him and managed to break a tree in half while doing so. and wwx(and friends?) visits CR in a later day and sees the tree and gets very surprised. oh and lwj has a real sword with him and knows how to use it? sry its not much details. thank you in advance if you find it <;3 #1 of post

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7. Hey, Mojo! Love your work. [Thanks!]  Can you help me find a time travel fic, only people have a “deja view” and the second time Wei Wuxian grows up with a mysterious mentor, most probably Baoshan Sanren? Jiang Cheng is lonely having grown up with only his dogs as friends, and when the Wen crash the Lan lectures, Niè Huaisang wonders why he thought someone from the Jiang would interfere. We’re being tantalized with the idea that as time goes on more definite things will be remembered. #5 of post

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8. Hi… can u pls help me to find a story where there is an attack in cloud recesses and everyone except wei wuxian died. Attack was done by cultivators wearing green robes… Thank u in advance #7 of post

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9. Hi! I once read a fic were WWX got pregnant in high school but everyone reacted so badly that WWX lied and said he lost the baby before running away. The Wen sibs took him in and supported he and A'Yuan for a few years until LWJ runs into them at WWXs art gallery and immediately realizes what’s happening. They then get 50/50 custody and pine for each other whenever they drop off A'Yuan. #10 of post

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10. Hi so remember how canonically everyone thought Lan Wangji hated Wei Wuxian? And Wei Wuxian thought it was true? I’m looking for a fic that like, addresses that/also how Wei Wuxian was basically going crazy after he came back from the burial mounds. Particularly him explaining this to the juniors about how yeah, it was a little hard to figure out he had romantic feelings toward Lan Zhan, he had a lot going on #20 of post

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11. Hello! I was wondering if you could please help me find a fic. It is not Wangxian, it is Wen Qing and Jiang Cheng- wwx ended up in the hospital, and wq is his doctor, and that is how she and jc meet. Jc and wq end up going back to her apartment, and it turns out jc is part of the mafia or something, but wq had already figured that out and accepted it. He has a zidian tattoo, and also wq drives a specific car (I forget the make and model) bc ‘it makes her feel tall’. That is all I remember, and I really hope it can be found. I thought I had put it in my bookmarks, but when I went to reread it, I couldn’t find it. Thank you!!! :) #3 of post

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12. Hiii!! Can you help me find a fic where Lan Zhan scoured the Burial Mounds to find Wei Ying’s body, and he successfully did find WWX’s corpse. Then he digs a grave using Bichen to bury WWX body. Thank you in advance 💜 #8 of post

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13. Hi<3, help me to find a fanfic from wangxian omegaverse where wei wuxian is a boy and was raised by the two Wen brothers, so Lan zhan, hurt, ends up sleeping in his barn and they meet there. plis. #10 of post

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14. I read just a few words of this fic before my AO3 crashed but here goes: It’s in a universe where WWX can figure out who his soulmate is if he touches that person and he feels something/ envisions something.  He’s in a crowded place when this happens, his hand brushes against someone (and instantly knows it’s his soulmate) and he thinks it’s a maiden. He tries searching for her and in the bargain, bumps into LWJ, who is standing stoic looking at a hotel name or something. My AO3 crashed right after that so… #10 of post

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15. Hi! I’m looking for a fic where post-canon wangxian move out of the cloud recesses and get a fixer-upper type cabin/house. Except lwj is terrified of bugs and they’re everywhere. #12 of post

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16. Hi I’m looking for a fic and I wonder if you/your followers might know it. Modern era: WWX works at Gusu and went to quit bcuz he was pregnant with a-Yuan (wanted to tell LWJ) and then Xichen tells him that Wangji is getting engaged. WWX then leaves when a-Yuan is born to the US and return to China to see LWJ’s parents at the airport. They meet again at a party and LWJ knows that a-Yuan is his. Btw the engagement got cancelled bcuz LWJ loved WWX but it was too late. JC and JYL help/love WWX/Yuan #16 of post

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17. Hey Mojo, I was hoping you or your followers could help me find this fic I read a while ago. Pretty sure it was a post canon fic, where wwx keeps flirting with ppl and lwj starts having doubts about their relationship. I think the juniors are there too. #20 of post

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18. hi!! i was looking for a wangxian fic but i rlly cant find it anywhere and i cant stop thinking abt it 😭 it’s a multi chaptered fic (its a long one, at least 50 chapters) where wwx is not a prt of the jiang sect but was raised together with wen qing and wen ning in their own sect where wei ying’s dad is alive and is sect leader. The unique thing abt the fic is that all of the characters’ swords can change into a human form (i remember suibian has a crush on bichen on this one)… they were also looking for wwx’s mum but i forgot the reason why ~ #17 of post

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19. Hi! I am looking for a fic. Towards the end the elders of the Lan sect imprison or isolate Wei Ying, he has A-yuan (as a toddler) with him and the child he birthed. Lan Xichen helps Wei Ying and Lan Zhan to escape from the Lan sect. It was probably a/b/o but i am not sure. Thank you 😊 #6 of post

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20. Going crazy because I can’t find this Hunger Games AU fic _anywhere_. Basically LWJ & WWX are the last two surviving tributes and WWX has already decided LWJ is going to win so he kisses LWJ and slits his own throat, only Xichen stages a revolution to break LWJ out and they all live happily ever after (if traumatized). I _know_ I read it awhile back and it was really good but now all I can find is The Hanging Tree, which is great but not the one I’m looking for. #14 of post

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21. hi can you find the fic where wwx and lan wangji are married because of business. then later they adopt a-yuan, then after that since the lan elders have enough power from the SANREN company and baoshan sanren and wen ruohan are a couple, the lan elders wanted lwj to marry nhs but nhs fell in love with jiang cheng and lwj fell in love with wwx. nhs is lwj’s ex bf #3 of post

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22. the cultivator killed wen remnants INCLUDING wen yuan and wwx ran to lwj. what wwx didnt know is lwj forgot about wwx forcefully by lan qiren.wwx: l-lan zhan wen yuan- a-yuan is dead lan-lwj stabbed wwx

wwx: lan zhan??. then after that wwx laughed until he had resentful energy, jin zixuan was only in a coma. lan xichen and jiang cheng ran to koi tower jc : wei wuxian lxc: young master wei wwx: ahahah! since you wanted me to be a demon then ill be a demon AHAHAHAH then wwx flew to burial mounds , the lan clan has lost support because they were scared of wwx. #badguyjinguangshan #badguylanqiren #jinzixuan and jiang yanli is alive –�� #7 of post

FOUND? THE DAY THE SUN BLACKENS by FongLian (Not rated, 16k, wangxian, WIP, Angst, Family, Regret, Brotherly Angst, Brotherly Affection, NMJ is caught up in the Cross-fire, LXC & LWJ left Gusu Lan, WWX Finally Gave In, He Wants To Destroy The Whole Cultivation World, And Create New One For His Baby, A-Yuan is Stuck in Between Life and Death, Yes A-Yuan is Like the Lucrecia Crescent of MDZS, Sayings: "Be Careful What You Wish For", LQR Made A Very Huge Mistake, JGS is Doomed, JZX is in a Coma, He'll play a Role Later)

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23. Ahhh I’ve been desperately looking for a while but since I can’t seem to find it I figured i might as well ask here: does anyone remember a wangxian modern au fic where lwj is wwx’s tutor but then finds out that Wwx doesn’t need a tutor (I think he was top of his class or something?? Also lwj might have mentioned Wwx being better than him at whatever subject was?? I think???) and wwx admits that he’s only attending tutoring because he wanted to spend more time with lwj. Pretty sure it was a college/university au, but it might have been a high school au! I think the tutoring took place in a library? That’s all I can remember tho :( ahh I hope someone can help!! #1 of post

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24. Hey I’m looking for a wangxian fanfic featuring hurt!lan wangji. Also, this is all happening post-canon. Ok, so if I remember correctly, in the fic the juniors mess up during a night hunt, and when they go back to the Cloud Recesses they are supposed to be punished with the discipline whip. But then Lan Zhan manages to orchestrate things so that HE is the one being punished in their place (I think he locks Wei Ying in the Jingshi so he won’t interfere). Can you find it? #6 of post

FOUND? Stand By You by LFMH021 (T, 7k, WangXian, Angst with a Happy Ending, Heavy Angst, Eventual Fluff, Hurt/Comfort, Brotherly Love, protective!wwx, Scars, Post-Canon)

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25. dhhdh i accidentally scrolled past a fic one day and so i only know the synopsis. i want to say that its completed (not sure) but it was long like probably >80k. i think it was jinsect!wwx but i might be thinking that bc i read othersect!wwx during that search. the description wwx to jin guangshan like “there are some treasures you cannot have” and the synopsis was formatted with lots of line breaks rather than one paragraph. #7 of post

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26. Hi! Maybe a long shot but I was wondering if you’d know of a WWX-JC reconciliation fic… There’s a scene where WWX and JC are discussing the flight from Koi Tower, and JC explained that nobody approached because they were all scared of LWJ, which stuck in my memory because I always found it hilarious that they all just paused on the stairs to let them speak, though I do love the scene. I think there was wedding planning as well. Appreciate your time for reading this anyway, and all the recs!  #5 of Post

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27. Hello, I don’t really remember much from the fic other than its a wangxian romance and I remember a scene when the two are in the library (as teens) and wwx asked lwj to read to him. The chapter (or maybe the whole fic) was from lwj’s pov as he thought something along the lines of “nobody liked his voice and the other kids wouldn’t listen when he read in class.” Thank youuuu, if you can find it or just for looking anyway. #13 of post

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28. I’m looking for this fix where Mo xuanyu was the Yiling Patriachs disciple and they were called to help the sects take care of the Wens. I don’t remember. Whole lot it was a long fic the main ship was wangxian #14 of post

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29. Hi!! I was hoping you could help me find a fic.The basic  premise was post-canon wwx goes to lotus pier to give jc a gift for his   birthday. The gift was painting of old yunmeng? But then jc invites wwx in. That’s all i can remember. Thank you!!! Love all the work you do! ❤ #1 of post

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30.  Hi! The work you do is very appreciated, thank you so much! If possible,  there’s a fic I’m looking for, for whenever you can fit this into a fic  finder post! I’m fairly sure it was post-canon, and Wei Wuxian was  living in Cloud Recesses, and when someone with a grudge against him  attacked it with demonic dogs, he locked the juniors in the library and  took the fight elsewhere to protect Cloud Recesses. I think there may  have been something about reliving bad memories or something similar? I  remember the Lans as well as Jiang Cheng and I think Jin Ling went  looking for him. I found a similar fic while looking for it, but it was a  single chapter WIP, while I’m pretty sure the fic I’m looking for had  multiple chapters up. That’s all I’m fairly confident about remembering,  sorry.    #14 of post

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31.  Hello there! Thank you for your hard work catering to our requests all  this time. I wonder if you can help me find a fic. I remember all the jiangs really love WWX, especially YZY, she loves him and spoils him so  much that even when he got in trouble in gusu, she said its just LQR   being a stuck up. I think WWX is the youngest out of the siblings and   they’re having a hard time accepting LWJ “taking away their baby”.   #18 of post

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32. I am not sure on how to do this loll this is my first time asking.  But Ima just try, also I love the stories you recommend (may have cried,   and laugh loll)

I am looking for a book that I read few months   back, I even went through the history and couldn’t find it loll. It’s   about how the mdzs characters watching wei wuxian life after the first   siege (?) Everyone (I think everyone) who died were resurrected to watch  his life as well. While watching they didn’t know that wei wuxian was still alive but not in their time period, he is alive, and pregnant and  now goes by the name Bai Ying or Bai Wuxian in the future. And when they  found out they decided to go and convince him to come back with them,  but he doesn’t remember them.    #5 of post

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33.  Hello! I am looking for a fic where LWJ has been visiting WWX in the   Burial Mounds often, and they consider A-Yuan their son. When WWX goes   to Jin Ling’s one-month, he also brings A-Yuan, but they are attacked at   Qionqi path. WWX eventually makes it to Koi Tower and says something   about how ‘they tried to kill our son.’ Thank you!    #17 of post

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34. Honestly, Idk how to use this. But im swallowing my pride asking for   help in finding a fic. Its about wwx and lqr, where they play a board   game then wwx apologized to lqr for being a terrible student then. Its   because wwx has a student who is as disruptive as he was. They talk, lqr  telling him about regretting sending his perfect nephew to a   troublemaker then fall in love. He realizes the parallel was his adopted  son, not lsz and his student.  #10 of post

FOUND? someone like you by Basingstoke (G, <1k, wangxian, Future Fic, Cloud Recesses, Teacher WWX)

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35.  Hi! Was looking for a modern AU where Sizhui is adopted by LWJ and WWX  as a teenager? It had some things about them as teens first and two   timelines. Thanks for your work!     #13 of post  

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36. Hello, I was hoping you could help me find a fic. I don’t remember much  of it, only that wwx was having some suicidal ideation. Like he was  sitting or standing at a cliff’s edge. I think lsz  stops him and lwj  stops him as well. It was post canon and they’re already together.   #14 of post  

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37.  i need help finding a fic, but in case it cannot be found anything alike  will do. so lwj is very worried of being the type of father his father  was, but lsz reassures him. thanks! you keep me sane with your recs!   #8 of post

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38.  hi! i remember reading a fic that was a post-canon fic centered around  jiang cheng and wei ying. i remember that after wei ying leaves lan zhan  he travels around and ends up at lotus pier. he attempts to do the  sacrifice mo xuanyu did for him in order to bring back jiang yanli and  jiang cheng catches him and stops him. i love the blog!    #10 of post  

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39. hello!!! im looking for this… time travel fic? i think wangxian got an  early engagement. but the only scenes i rememeber are where wen ruohan  wanted to match wen xu and wwx together bc wwx quoted the quintessence @  wen chaooh also i think wwx collapsed into like. nightmare dream sleep  and couldnt be woken up (i think this is all during a disc conference in  qishan)thank you!!    #12 of post  

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40.  Hey Mojo! I’ve read something on ao3 or wattpad I’m not sure but it’s about Wen Ruohan adopted Wei Wuxian but instead of calling him father he  called Wen Ruohan mother instead. He spoiled Wei Wuxian rotten! I would  like to reread this but I forgot the title. I’m not sure it’s completed  or not but the last time I read, it still ongoing. Thank you for your  help. Loves your blogs!     #14 of post  

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41.  Hey.  Does any know this fanfiction where wei ying from the past amd   future swap. And like all the characters are put in one room and can’t   leave until they have watched the entire thing. And there is this scene where they find out about the core transfers surgery and the future wei  ying talks about how he gave up one of his kidneys for his jiang cheng.  There is also a scene where they talk about how future lan Zhan and wei  ying meet, they meet at like high school or something and there is this  entire thing here they explain high school to the people of the past. I  think it was a series on A03, it also had a another story which shows  past wei ying in the future and he wakes up in a hospital and like many  yao and xue yang are like good people. If you could find this that would  be amazing.  Thank you.      #16 of post

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42.  Hi! First of all, you all are amazing! Your recs re amazing!I’m looking  for a fic where Jiang Cheng tells Wei Wuxian about how he doesn’t want  him to use demonic cultivation because he will loose control again and  die, and Wei Wuxian telling him that et he never lost control, implying  that he wanted to unalive himself.It doesn’t have to be fic focus on  that, but I think that I read a fic like that once, and now I cant find  it. And I apologise ize for my English Love you all <3       #19 of post 

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43.  i’m giving up after months of randomly trying to find this fic. it was   wangxian, i remember that it started with a mess at the cloud recesses, jingyi and sizhui had gone to koi tower because kingyi was going to be in trouble unfairly. i think the juniors were poly? i read it like ages  ago and i can’t remember anything more. help?     #11 of post  

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44.  Haaay, thanks for all your hard work! I’m looking for a fic but I don’t  recall much except that WWX is way OP and when he sees the scars on  LWJ’S back he gets furious and just takes them away completely. I hope  this is enough! It’s been a long time so I can’t remember anything else  #3 of post

Thanks  for the answers on #3. I know it’s not Imperfect Memory. I’m almost   100% sure I haven’t read Silver and Gold, but I’m going to start now to make sure this isn’t the one, but I really don’t think so. I do *think* I  remember them being at Cloud Recesses when it happens? And Wei Ying is  definitely aware of who he is.

Okay,  having looked through Silver & Gold, that’s definitely not it   (though thanks for the rec, this is going on the TOP of my To Read   list). A few more thoughts. I think they were in Lan Zhan’s bed in the   Jingshi and Wei Ying just kind of…pulls them off his skin or something? And it doesn’t hurt Lan Zhan or disturb him.

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45.  Hi, y'all are doing the work of gods.I’ve been looking for a fic and the  only thing I know is that the scars on wwx’s back from yzy’s last   beating healed poorly and lead to limited mobility in his arms and   shoulders, and this is why he wears his hair in a half ponytail after   the core transfer and surviving Burial Mounds.It’s ok if you don’t find it, I’m starting to think I dreamed the interaction where I heard about  it XD #6 of post

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46.  Hi! First of all, i’d like to thank for you for doing god’s work and for  the great fics i’ve found through u guys. Anyways, i’ve been looking  for this modern au (w/ a hint of mafia au) where lwj and lxc are  homeless and they were attack by thugs and lxc died(but it’s revealed at  the end that he survived and now worked as a hacker??). Lwj was found  by wwx and took him in. Lwj was younger than wwx here too. I’ve been  looking for it for ages but i dont remember much and couldn’t find it.     #9 of post  

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47.  PLEASE help me find this fic it’s been MONTHS. All i rememeber is: takes   place in the burial mounds, I’m 90% sure wx were married but not bc   they were in love (yet). The one scene I remember is someone talking to   WY abt deciding to officially be “the yiling Wei sect” w wy as sect   leader. Wy also married WQ + a-yuan’s mom as concubines?? Wq was a surrogate for wx? lz was ok w it bc it wasn’t for love?? The wens called   lz “wei-furen”. Idk if I’m putting this request in the right place I’m  sorry #5 of post

From #5 in today’s fic finders: it’s not Dreams of Youth (altho that one IS similar and also really good.)  

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48. Hello I’m looking for a fic with jiang cheng and lan zhan time   traveling. It had a scean where jiang cheng was telling a drunk wei ying  to put down that chicken. #1 of post

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49. Thank you so much for being here and coordinating this. I'vw been   trying  to refind a fic in which Wei Ying and Lan Zhan are married and   their  friends and family don’t realize it. The scene I remember is Wei Ying  being very offended when they find out because everyone was at   their  wedding, but didn’t realize it was their wedding. I’m fairly   certain  it’s a modern au. It’s not the delightful The F-Word by raspberrymocha.  Thanks so much for your help! #7 of post

Thank you so much for posting my ficfinder request on March 28, #7.  While swiss cheese theory is an absolute delight, it’s not the fic I was   looking for. In the fic I’m looking for WWX and LWJ know they’re   married; it’s their family/friends who didn’t realize that they are,   even though they were at the wedding. But again, thank you for posting   even though the fic hasn’t yet turned up. 

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50.  Hello, could you please help find a fic. I checked all time travel tags  but i can’t find a fic, all i remember is - LWJ time travels or   something to sunshot campaign times & Wuxian expects him to argue   but he just hugs him.Also Jiang Cheng n all keep leaving Wuxian alone in  battlefield but Wangji keeps finding him and keeps company. He also   keeps tent warm for Wuxian n feeds him food.  #7 of post 

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[factsilike]

Lol imagine nitpicking the author's words to only see what you want to see. She literally adds the words 'wouldn't be too much dispute between them.' It possibly could not be that maybe Lwj excels in virtue or WWX in character, or that both of them have highly idealistic traits to have, no? Just because she tells us to be like Lwj in virtue does not mean WWX lacks virtue, that's your own incorrect assumption.

You know, you're right that WWX did go too far. Specifically during the Sunshot Campaign when he looks back and regrets. He looks back and admits that he went too far, that he was too focused on revenge in the war, and stooped to underhanded methods to achieve it. The fact that he was able to do that, to draw the line at when too much blood had been shed, when enough was enough, when so many others could not is another reason why he's morally righteous.

Run, where exactly? Literally where could he have run where he would be safe, and live in hiding for the rest of his life? Like a coward? Sooner or later they find him and the confrontation starts all over again? What would running away have solved? The Wens would still be killed, with the added knowledge that WWX abandoned them to their fate. Nothing would have changed for the better. WWX did everything he could to peacefully protect the Wens and himself, that's the point, peace was no longer an option. There was nothing else he could do.

No, WWX did not destroy the seal because he felt he was wrong. He destroyed it because he realised that it was too dangerous a thing for those bloodthirsty sects to have, too much power for one person, and it was mostly likely to fall in their hands after his death, which would certainly be a disaster. As evidenced by how half of it ended up in XY's hands and the Jin clan was all too eager to pardon his numerous crimes so that he could fully restore it for them to use.

True, Jiang Yanli dies but how is that his fault? He did not deliberately kill her, first it was her choice to run out to an open battlefield without any support, and then sacrifice her life for him. Her death was a tragic accident. Also I couldn't help noticing that she sees the thousands of these cultivators attacking a single man, and asks that man to stop defending himself. Smh.

There are so many things wrong with your Tgcf notes, I don't even know where to begin.

'He merely escalated the situation-' even if that's true he still played a major role in the kingdom's downfall. It was entirely his fault, not XL's. He even goes out of his way to hinder XL's efforts to provide relief for his people, multiple times in increasingly drastic ways.

What use was that help? It was that XL's intentions matter here, not his actions. Take a look at this passage

Both of them indirectly imply that there must be some deciding factor that tells them which one to give the glass.

However Xie Lian says,

He challenges the notion that FX and MQ had accepted, that even as gods, they are limited. If they are gods, why shouldn't they find a way to get a second cup?

And if they can't, they can still do something that neither the Guoshi nor FX or MQ considered; he can give his own cup. And you'll see XL sticks to this mentality for the rest of the novel. So long as his own cup is flowing, he can find a way to help people.

Yes, it's true that FX and MQ are highly incompatible but again it doesn't fall to Xie Lian to make them get along. He still tries though, because he's good at it. He's able to calm FX down before he jumps to accusing MQ of something and ask him to first listen to what MQ has to say when he will not speak up, as well as remind MQ that FX is not capable of scheming against him as he will just silently brood in his head about him conspiring against him. They would truly not be friends without XL.

Who asked you to post a whole book?? I said some passages. Here, let me lead by example

'Did not want to eat the food offered to him-' ah I see you're the type of person who takes the characters words at face value and ignores their actions and what the narrative is saying. What does this passage say?

That Xie Lian had only been in a mortal body again after a long time and forgotten that he needed to eat to sustain it? And not that he was being picky about food, or going on a starving spree to throw a tantrum about poor food? But we see how MQ here assumes the worst of XL as he often does all throughout the novel, because of his own resentment towards XL? There are many such examples in the book.

Congratulations, you missed the point of the book more than twice then. One of the Mxtx book's morals is not to take the antagonists' words at face value, when they literally twist facts to make themselves look better. They are not victims, and their downfall is simply the consequences of their own immoral actions.

XL literally insists on going along with FX to earn money in the streets, and does his fair share, even when FX insists he doesn't have to. And well XL must always be this perfect person who's never allowed to have a breakdown, right? Even after suffering blow after blow after blow. Of course they had it hard, it was a lose lose situation.

Not to mention FX who is too caught up in his love affair completely fails to notice that the 'master' he serves is being stalked and tormented for months by a psychopathic maniac, and as a result his mental health has drastically deteriorated. He brushes off XL when he tells him about White No Face, thinking he was just losing his mind from poverty or stress.

Oh, I forgot a few years had passed. My bad, but 20 is still so young.

Also, you're seriously suggesting that what MQ thought was a good solution could have worked? Those are literal war crimes, XL had every right to reject them.

Look at this guy jumping at the chance to harm innocent people, especially civilians. And you think XL made bad decisions? Somehow you read this chapter and thought MQ was right and you also know what morally righteous actions entail.

As for the exhausting resources...

He will point this out like there's nothing they can do about it, yet the people in charge (the useless king) will not think to remove these corrupt people and strip them of power.

Also oh my god. That's the most callous thing ever, that you think his parents killed themselves because they thought they knew that XL couldn't take care of them, as if they only ever had expectations from XL to unconditionally serve them. They killed themselves because they didn't want their son to be burdened by the immense task of taking care of them, not that he was incapable of doing so. They took that decision off his hands. Your interpretation of their actions is horrible. That whole tragic scene was XL's breaking point.

Seriously, read the book again.

Really tired of constantly seeing posts declaring that everyone in MXTX novels is complicated and 'morally grey' and that's what makes her works wonderfully written, and that everyone else who doesn't see that is stupid, or is 'demonising' characters and bashing them for rightfully criticising their shitty, very much unjustified actions.

And ironically it seems so simplistic to just declare that, because yes her stories are wonderfully written and complex, but not for that reason. You're clearly not reading her works and only spouting what you think her stories say. There are many morally grey characters in morally complex stories out there, but MDZS IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

NONE OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS (i.e protagonists and their male leads except for LBH maybe) ARE MORALLY GREY OR MORALLY COMPLEX.

THEY ARE ALL MORALLY RIGHTEOUS.

Just take a closer look at their actions compared to the actions of literally everyone else around them, it's not that hard to see.

Not to mention that MXTX herself literally says that WWX and LWJ are both morally ideal and that ahe hopes her readers can be like them, but people seem to have no respect for the word of authors in the name of their self projection onto the characters being contradicted nowadays 😒

(also saw someone dismissively say that HC may think that the world revolves around XL or whatever, but others don't and they're right??

First of all, did you even read the novel? HC made his judgement based on how others treated him versus how XL did when he was a CHILD. And how XL continues to treat others to this day. He is well within his rights to think the world of XL, especially since XL suffered more than every other person and still doesn't succumb to evil, despite having every right to do so, miles more than others. He all but regards XL as his moral compass, because he's proof that truly good people do exist in this world, and not ONE other person in the novel is shown to be as good as him.)

One of the reasons why I really don't like the Xianle Trio is this; neither FX nor MQ seem to regard XL as his own person with his own agency, who is capable of making his own decisions initially as HC does, and only near the end of the novel do they let up a bit when their asses had to be saved by XL multiple times. (especially considering what fools they made of themselves in that spiderweb cave lmao)

Both of them try to enforce XL ALL THE TIME ("Your Highness don't do this or don't do that or don't say this or don't go there or don't talk to him"), as if XL has not survived perfectly well on his own without them FOR 800 YEARS.

The difference between them and HC is clearly spelled out when FC asks HC about why he is not stopping XL, and HC replies that while he may not agree with some of XL's decisions, he would never force him to do what he thinks is correct, something both MQ and FX are CONSTANTLY shown to try to do.

Like please. Xianle Trio who? More like suffering XL and his pair of nuisances who think themselves to be his babysitters. And most of the time he's the one babysitting them.

Another thing that irks me is that their frequent arguments are often played off for laughs, but XL is truly a saint, because if my friends were constantly bickering over petty things all throughout our dangerous journey and giving me nothing but headaches, especially in survival situations, I'd given them the boot a long time ago.

[no--envies]

I love every part of MDZS (novel), but my favorite scene is probably the one where Wei Wuxian watches a group of kids playing a game based on the Sunshot Campaign while he’s waiting for Lan Wangji.

It’s such a soft, sweet and cute moment. It’s also a great way to introduce every character’s role during the war and show how they were all allies before Wei Wuxian’s fall from grace.

Also, it’s one of the rare times we see Wei Wuxian sad when thinking about the past, but it’s so sweet how he immediately brightens up after thinking about Lan Wangji. His “How can such a boring person always make me so happy?” manages to make me emotional every time.

The “YiLing Patriarch” replied as if he understood everything, “Jiang Cheng, how is it possible for you to be better than me? Is there even one time that you didn’t lose against me? How do you dare to say that you’re the most powerful? Aren’t you embarrassed?”

“Jiang Cheng”, “Hmph, I can’t be better than you? Do you remember how you died?”

The light smile on Wei WuXian’s face dissipated at once.

It was as if he had suddenly been pricked by a poisonous needle. A faint, sharp pain came from all around his body.

[...]

Wei WuXian, “Why isn’t there anyone from the GusuLan Sect?”

“There is.”

“Where are they?”

The “YiLing Patriarch” pointed at a child who never said anything from the beginning to the end, “That’s him.”

Wei WuXian looked over. The child had delicate features, the seedling of a charming, handsome man. A white rope wrapped around his smooth forehead, in place of a forehead ribbon. Wei WuXian asked, “Who is he?”

The “YiLing Patriarch” pouted in disdain, “Lan WangJi.”

… Fine. These children understood the essence. Someone acting as Lan WangJi should indeed shut his mouth and stay silent!

Out of the blue, Wei WuXian’s lips curled upward again.

The poisonous needle had been pulled out, tossed into some random corner. All of the pain had been instantly wiped away. Wei WuXian murmured to himself, “How strange. Why can someone as boring as him always make me so happy?”

(Exiled Rebels Scanlations, Chapter 32)

I love this so much. And then after Lan Wangji comes downstairs, he sees Wei Wuxian playing with the kids, sharing his breakfast with them and showing off his “spinning flute” skills. This scene never fails to put a smile on my face.

It’s a shame this cute little moment wasn’t included in any of the adaptations except for the audio drama (CQL does include it but changes it too much, since WWX asks about himself instead of LWJ and the kids don’t have anyone who plays the Yiling Patriarch).

It’s details like this that make MDZS such a beautiful and well-crafted story.

[agendratum]

ok so

as usual after finishing an arc of mdzs my head is full, many thoughts. so let’s talk about the guanyin temple confrontation.

first thing that i kept paying attention to were actually the changes made in order to turn it into live-action. so in cql they had to make the gray-gray characters, the “there are no good or bad guys, just people and their circumstances” characters (unless you’re jgs, than yeah you’re a bad guy and everyone agrees on that actually) into slightly more black and white characters. by the end of cql we are lured into this fake sense of security, “haha, we know who the bad guy is!” (then a year passes and here you are, now a jgy apologist), by the end of mdzs, you just know that, well, decisions were made, unfortunate decisions, by many different people. 

cql had to make wwx into a bit nicer version of himself. the good protagonist couldn’t lose control and accidentally kill a bunch of people, and then kill another bunch of people fully willingly, cause his sister just died and that was the last connection he had to the idea that something still matters in this world. no, out protagonist should be... like a little bit nicer than that. so they lifted some of that responsibility for atrocities off him, but they couldn’t just evaporate it, could they? they had to put it somewhere. they put it on jgy. after all he’s the big bad in the end of the story, well, the only surviving person from all people that could be considered big bads, he’s the one that “did every terrible deed imaginable”. he could take that responsibility, they had to make his grayness into a slightly darker shade anyway.

i am actually kinda surprised by how different my reaction to jgy was in mdzs. obviously, there is a year difference between me watching cql and me reading this part of mdzs, and over that year i changed my opinion on jgy 5 thousand times and joined the camp “actually meng yao deserves all the best things in the world”, but anyway. when i was watching cql i was like, oh my god, can someone just kill him already, before he does something bad again, before more bullcrap comes out of his mouth, and also stop yelling at this kid about all the “valid” reasons to why you killed his dad. in mdzs my reaction to jgy’s confessions was like, “huh. he has a point”.

now don’t get me wrong there, some shitty things were done, but the thing is, the things he did really made sense from his point of view, from this position and life experience he really had no other way to go. i especially was convinced by his reasoning to why he couldn’t cancel his engagement with qin su. not only he would suffer from this story, because he already went through so much to make this marriage possible, but also qin su’s parents and herself would most likely suffer, their public image would be destroyed, only jgs wouldn’t lose anything. and you could feel the hatred and bitterness he felt towards his father talking about this, and everyone in the temple could agree with that, because he “just forgot he made another child”, he didn’t even notice.

another interesting detail for me was lxc saying, “it’s not that i didn’t know that you did some of these things, it’s that i thought you had a good reason for doing them”. so yeah, a reminder, lxc isn’t blind and he isn’t an idiot. he trusted a person he thought he knew better than anyone else, and he believed in this person. the problem, i think, is that “a good reason” is different for lxc and for jgy. lxc would understand a righteous reason, doing something for the greater good. working for wen ruohan? that was explainable. they all were fighting in a war, fighting for the better, brighter future, and meng yao’s contribution to that future was immeasurable. what if he killed some people there? he had a good reason in lxc’s eyes. but meng yao had other good reasons in his life, some of these reasons lxc never had to deal with in his life. survival, for example, is one of them. meng yao’s early years were very different from lxc’s. not to say that lxc’s life was easy, but it was never truly unstable. meng yao had to learn how to survive in a world where no one wanted him. he lived with one dream, promised to him by his mother, a future where he wouldn’t have to suffer anymore, where he wouldn’t have to smile at people he hated, please every one of their desires so they wouldn’t harm him. and then he entered this life promised to him and he still had to survive, but now in a luxurious man-eats-man world of lanling jin.

meng yao’s life really was this unstoppable ball of snow rolling down the mountain, and every decision he made just made the ball bigger and it would just roll faster. there is even a moment where jgy accuses lxc of being naive. lxc isn’t really naive, of course, it was said in the heat of the moment, but it is a fact that lxc was never kicked down a staircase, never had to crawl back up, and the thing is, at the bottom of the staircase, there are other good reasons to do things.

and in a way lxc understood that jgy in his position really didn’t have any other choices, he just couldn’t find peace in this mindset. he kept repeated through that part, “and yet, and yet, you shouldn’t have done that, you should have...” and he never said what exactly jgy should have done. because lxc doesn’t know. jgy doesn’t know. no one knows. what choices were better? how could he fix all that and still survive? in a way, lxc saying that reminded me of wangxian farewell in the burial mounds. when lwj asks, “you really indent to keep going like this?” and wwx, who wished, who longed for another solution, for some way out, asked him, “what else can i do? what method can i choose to resolve this, not use this technique and still protect people i want to protect?” and lwj didn’t have an answer. lxc didn’t have an answer either.

another amazing thing about guanyin temple confrontation, is that it’s very heavily wwx’s pov. most on the novel is his pov of course, but there were a loot of his thoughts in this arc. and he was rather understanding towards jgy. not in a way “i agree with every reasoning behind every decision you made” but in a way “i understand that you had your reasons, but all of them will become irrelevant really soon, they already are, because the crowd will only remember you as a son of a whore who did every terrible deed imaginable, and all the good deeds will be forgotten” 

now his thoughts on nhs, or who he suspected nhs to be, were way less nice. especially compared to live action, nhs didn’t make such an impression on me as he made through wwx’s thought process in the end of guanyin temple arc. of course, wwx is no sect leader yao, he is not the one to jump to conclusions, he just noticed that if you put some facts together, they actually start making a lot of sense, and formed a full picture. but he didn’t have any proof, so he kept it mostly to himself. yet he still thought for a moment about nhs as someone who didn’t care about collateral damage that much, who was ready to sacrifice lives of juniors, sect leaders, anyone, if it would add to jgy’s kill count and make his fall and destruction even more disastrous. not that those are not the things that happened in live action, but you know, when wwx put it all together like that in one paragraph, i really felt it. like, oof, dude it’s ROUGH. and not even jgy’s death was enough, as nhs basically admitted to stealing meng shi’s body and planning to repay jgy for what he did to nmj’s body. yikes

i mean i still support nhs in everything he does, but yikes

also side note, glad that the dead cats situation finally became clear for me. this whole year i was so confused about who left all these dead cats for juniors to find. i thought maybe xue yang did?? to lure wwx?? so apparently it was also nhs. good to know.

another detail, probably the last one my brain can generate for now, that pained me a great deal was my poor child jin ling. i already cried about some things related to him and this arc, but there was another little one in the very end here, after jgy died. jin ling realised, that there were now three people, wwx, wn and jgy, his little uncle, that were responsible for his parents’ death. people he had every right and reason to hate. all three of them. and yet he couldn’t hate any of them. he couldn’t avenge his parents, that died so long ago he couldn’t remember them, because all three people responsible for what happened, had something, some reasons, some circumstances, that made them really not the bad guys in jin ling’s life. and they all cared about him, protected him. how could he hate them? how could he not? and in this way this poor child repeats, unfortunately, his uncle’s curse. to have someone he wants to hate so much but just simply can’t. it warms my heart at least that jin ling has a much better support system than jc had when he had to live through that experience. so there is hope.

[colorisbyshe]

okay, so i finished the untamed AND found some posts on the differences between the novel, so here’s my thoughts overall in bulletpoints:

wei wuxian: certainly a character of all time

i want to hit the author of the novel with my car. hard. fucking weirdo

while at times some of the development with LWJ/WWX felt a bit told to me, not shown to me, i really like how its expressed (and am glad i didn’t get what was in the novel, tbh) and i actually liked their ending?? tho i see its controversial

that said i wish lan wangji was developed more which relates to--

i think everyone’s characterization/development paths were a looot more interesting in the flashback? outside of jiang cheng who really did develop more into a complex character who i really can’t gather my feelings onto

i actually by what i said before, in many ways, it think i’d be content with viewing this series through the lens of everything ending with WWX’s death and no resurrection--i think the story stands more strongly as a tragedy than the sort of vague mystery it becomes post resurrection

THAT SAID if the story had explored more of the emotions and actual dynamics post resurrection more, i’d probably change my mind? i think the pacing got REALLY fucked by focusing on so many side stories (i really did not think we needed to know about xiao/song/a qing/xue) and in trying to churn all those out, it’s like “oh, yeah, everyone just accepts wei is back because he’s useful in solving what is going on”

yes i also understand that’s the point, that the whims of who is “evil” and who is “right” change easily, but it felt emotionally hollow at times

rly a pacing issue and how everyone seemed less complex in part 2

i did not care about jin guangyao and i think so much of his backstory was just... stupid? i understand he’s meant to be a foil to wwx but the oops incest thing was weird, the whole thing about why they had to kill their son was worse (and ableist and gross, even if that was teh intent), and as fucking OBVIOUS as they made he’s backhandedness early in the series, the heel turn still felt too sudden? lik ehe just gave up, trauma dumped, and died. like bro you’ve been at this like 20 years??

and i know his relationship with lwj’s brother is also meant to be a foil to lwj/wwx but...... it didn’t work

also why does this show hate women? i know its because the author was a fujo but like... i DO love a lot of the female characters but the way they are sidelined is embarrassinggggggggg

OKAY THIS SOUNDS HATERIFIC I GOTTA GET BACK TO THINGS I LIKED

loved that so much of this show focused on music

i love wei’s vindication

i love what it has to say about rules and conformity, that even the most sensible rules must be questioned and challenged in how they are enforced. “do not befriend the devil” makes sense on paper but who is the devil? who decides that? who is society prone to demonizing and how can sensible rules lead to senseless violence?

like... what does justice actually look like? is it vengeance? or is it looking past your own hurt and seeing a bigger picture?

and i love that the story ends with an understanding that the Big Bad being taken out doesn’t mean justice is served

BRO wwx telling lwj that he’d be glad to die by his hand... that’s the content i love. on that end... enemies to enemies (?) to friends to lovers... muah muah

beautiful cinematography ic an see where all the budget went so ic an forgive some of the special effects looking... the way they did (That fuckign demon dog LMAO)

all in all i had a great time even tho i think the last ~10 episodes kind of got a bit muddled, the ending was worth it 4/5

wait also i want to hit lwj’s dad with a car too, i’m glad that the story KIND Of frames his story as complicated rather than fully romanticizing it but no i’m hitting him with my car, stealing someone else’s car, and hitting him again with that car too

i’m probably not consuming any of the other adaptions outside of gifs unless anyone can HEAVILY recommend them and promise me none of the weird shit is included

like beyond the consent issues (putting it lightly) why do they break so many bath tubs at a certain point that’s just weird like what’s going on there what fetish is that catering to. die for that.

okay and i promise outside of maybe anotehr couple musing here or there, my untamed posting is going on the main, so don’t be scared off

i do think i’m gonna be normal about this

[ouyangzizhensdad]

I’m curious about something, I’m pretty sure the novel makes all of WWX wounds heal after Mo Village since every target dies, but the live action has one left for JGY. Do you think that changes in a way the depiction of MXY?

I kind of don’t like that choice from the standpoint of how it impacts the storytelling and WWX’s character.

It is not like, within the novel canon, it would not make sense for MXY to resent JGY. JGY is the reason why MXY was sent back in disgrace to Mo Village, and ceased to be able to learn cultivation. The text also tells us that even before the abuse worsened things, MXY came back absolutely rattled and out of spirit. If the decision to add this target had been used in order to further flesh out MXY, or explore more fully what JGY’s characters and his actions, it would not bother me so much. It could have been a very interesting new perspective to what is already in the canon, expanding upon it. Yet, this is not the role that this mark plays in CQL.

The mark instead is part of the simplified and blunter storytelling style of CQL. By that I mean that the mark remaining on WWX, and thus being an unresolved mystery and a “””threat””” to him, is about being a reminder for the audience: keep watching! We swear, there is more coming, there’s a big boss out there, the hero is not fine!!!! Isn’t that the only thing we need to do to build suspense? With more apt storytellers, this could have been different: they could have mobilised the remaining mark throughout the narrative to increase the sense of tension, of urgency, of angst as WWX and LWJ go on their own adventures. What if WWX was not only threatened by the cultivation world, but the very body he’s now inhabiting, slowly rejecting him for failing to pay his part of the deal? However, since the mark is not in the novel, the production team allow themselves to forget this adaptational change for most of the narrative and do not consider how it should inform it aside from reminding the audience that it is there or showing that WWX has been freed from it at the end. The identity of the person WWX needs to enact revenge upon for MXY never feels like a pressing thing, both for the audience and within the narrative. We never truly feel that there are stakes associated with it when we’re watching the series. This is not surprising because the original narrative is not shaped by such stakes or tension, so the CQL team would have needed to intentionally add them after considering the impacts of that adaptational choice. Unfortunately, the mark appears to be there only because CQL feel it needs a clear, blunt, visual reminder for the audience in the first few episodes that there is ~more mystery to come, keep watching~ you want to know the big reveal, don’t you~ there’s the a big boss at the end, promise~. And  that kind of lazy writing leaves me very meh. 

What really annoys though, is the subtle way that choice impacts WWX’s characterisation. In the novel, WWX leaves Mo Village with nothing binding him. He’s paid his debt toward MXY, and he’s avoided the one person who knew him in the past. The man whose first life and fate were defined by debts no longer has anything to settle. As WWX go on, on his own, it’s acknowledged that he has an opportunity to imagine a life without anything tethering him (well, until unfinished business catches up with him at Dafan mountain). So when the mystery surrounding the arm props up, WWX doesn’t get involved because it could be tied to a mark remaining on his arm. Later, he doesn’t risk his life to uncover JGY’s crimes because that could somehow be the answer to fulfilling his debt toward MXY. Novel!WWX chooses to do these things because of who he is as a person. Having that other motivation, this tether, muddies in some ways his characterisation. It also changes what can be inferred by the fact that novel!WWX lets himself be brought back into the troubles and politics of the cultivation world when he meant to avoid them after his rebirth and when it is ultimately the choice he makes at the end of the book--in CQL, it feels like that choice is one he has to make, at least until he’s gotten rid of the mark. And I don’t feel like CQL addresses or makes up for the impact this has on his characterisation.

In short, while it is not, by far, the worst adaptational choice of the CQL production team has made based on what is in the novel, it is indicative for me of the limits and failings of the adaptation. Not only does this adaptational choice not seem to bring a new perspective on the source material, but it is not fully developed within its own storytelling and the ways in which it impacts other aspects of the original story (like characterisation) do not seem to have been considered. 

[vrishchikawrites]

I dont think these fanon takes are a minor thing, I think its more of a cql thing, if people have watched the drama first/only, their perspective is heavily influenced by it, its no fault of the actors but the script heavily does change stuff, WWX is made to cry 82 times in cql? In novel its 2 at most, JZXs death and when he returns from the dead, his resilience trait is..gone. Jiang Wanyin is shown as soft instead of brash/impulsive that he is, JYL has a fixation on family stuff 1/2

Which is more subtle in the novel, to remove WWX remembering LWJ in burial mounds they add lotus pond scenes, this instead shows that WWX missed 'home' or 'regretted' his actions, in novel he never once did, he wasn't bitter/guilty because he knew he was in the right, and Wens were grateful to him, the public hanging of Wens??? I mean, the whole arc was what rumor mongering does, no one knew they were innocent people because this was hidden from them, people like LXC and NMJwouldNOTstandforit2/?

What is up with Mian Mian being from a bigger sect when she worked hard in a smaller sect to gain a high position and then discarded it for righteousness? ? What about JZX? His arc has him an only child thus influence on his pompous behaviour, and he steps up to save Mian Mian 'daughter of a servant' not his close friend, it highlights him not care about status when looking at people, and sure JWN throw the person down the cliff your sister died saving, what a way to honor her sacrifice 4/?

How they changed JWN into a 'soft' person (with emotional scenes on screen)when he is brash/impulsive fixation on yunmeng trio, JYL with family, WWX never regretted his decision, ever, hes in the right thats why, he doesn't throw the seal into the crowd, he dies from the backlash of destroying the seal because of the very reason he knows they'll use it to harm others which he didnt want. It seems more like scrip writers didnt address mxtxs work as an adaptation they were adapting 5/?

Anon, I'm assuming you said what you wanted to say? Idk, but let me reply to these?

Bear in mind, I watched the series once and actually fast forwarded a few scenes.

I agree that CQL has colored people's opinion on the characters. But I still don't get the takes. Even if CQL softened JC significantly, his actions are still Very bad.

Even in CQL, he-

1. Owes a debt to the Wens and refuses to disclose it.

2. Knows people in the BM are harmless and there's a child there.

3. Doesn't support WWX at critical times, showing division instead of solidarity.

4. Lets the woman he was intent on courting burn before his very eyes.

5. Participates in a seige against his martial brother.

6. Helps that martial brother commit su*cide.

7. Threatens a resurrected wwx multiple times.

8. Tries to fight wwx when he was legit bleeding and swaying in front of him.

9. Goes 'what of my mother, father, sister,' during the whole GC conversation at the temple.

10. Treats his nephew like shit.

11. Benefits immensely from WWX's death.

This is just from the top of my head. Just CQL material.

So, all of these things aren't subtle. They're not nuanced actions of discreet character that you need to dig into. All of these incidences are significant events, clearly described and showcased in CQL.

Blaming CQL is well and good, it has a lot of flaws. I agree with everything you mentioned. But, my thing is, CQL JC is almost worst. CQL WWX is actually more innocent. CQL goes solidly white vs. black morality. LWJ and WWX on the right side, everyone else (juniors and wn not included) on the wrong side. It can't be clearer even in that, somewhat clumsy, adaptation.

What I think is happening is people are overly identifying with a foil character. Instead of thinking, "Well, this is how this character works, these are his actions" they go, "this is how the author, unjustly, crafted my fav character. His actions are the author's fault and really, he is better deep down inside of him. You just don't understand him like I do. Really, the author was unfair to him."

All the while, they forget this is a fictional character crafted from the author's imagination and not a real, dynamic person.

The case with MianMian is ridiculous. Her character is compelling in many ways and CQL definitely messed it up. JZX would've benefited from that nuance. I won't comment on how much I hate the low self-esteem so prevalent in WWX's CQL characterization because it makes me scream.

But even then, WWX is shown as competent, confident, and so done with everyone's bs. He clearly reached a point where he only cares about LWJ. It is pretty obvious that in his opinion, everyone else (aside from juniors and wn) sucks.

CQL may be iffy, it isn't fully to blame. Fanon takes are... well, just some people deciding they wanna ignore the source material and believe their fav character is different. Which, sure. I don't mind.

Still doesn't change the fact that they chose to interpret characters in a certain way despite all evidence to the contrary.

[xiyao-feels]

I'm so confused. can jgy reincarnate or be resurrected? I know fanfic can take liberties but I've read conflicting things. plus the untamed didn't show his body or explain anything and I believe the novel says something else entirely? 😔🥺😕

So "can JGY reincarnate or be resurrected" is not a question I can really properly answer. My understanding is that the answer is yes if he's not stuck in the coffin (and a friend of mine has read a bunch of Chinese fic, albeit through Google translate, where stuff like that does in fact happen), but I'm not confident I'd know it if the answer were no! So I'm afraid I can't really help you there, I'm sorry. This is normally where I'd link you stuff from people who know more than I do but while I know I've seen stuff on the subject apparently I didn't save it, and I couldn't find anything relevant searching, either. That'll teach me not to save my links...

But I can show you what happened to JGY in MDZS, and then contrast with CQL! Let's go.

So, end of ch. 108, JGY pushes LXC away from the coffin and NMJ (not, note, out of the temple, which isn't crumbling!) and then NMJ immediately drags him into the coffin and kills him:

Yet, just as the hand was an instant from grasping Lan XiChen’s neck, Jin GuangYao used the only hand he had left to strike Lan XiChen’s chest, pushing Lan XiChen away.

He, himself, on the other hand, was dragged into the coffin by Nie MingJue, then held up like holding a puppet. The scene was beyond frightening. Jin GuangYao used his one hand to peel away at Nie MingJue’s steel-like palm. He struggled ceaselessly from the pain, hair tangled, as heavy malice shot from his eyes. He cursed with all the energy he had left, “Fuck you, Nie MingJue! You think I’m really scared of you?! I…”

With much difficulty, he coughed up some blood. Everyone present heard a crack that was abnormally clear and brutal.

A whimper of a last breath left Jin GuangYao’s throat.

There's a last short couple of sentences about JL's reaction, and then at the beginning of 109 you immediately have:

Lan XiChen staggered a few steps back from the push. He hadn’t realized what happened yet. Meanwhile, Lan WangJi struck the back of the fair-featured Guanyin statue at the center of the temple. The statue vibrated as it flew towards the coffin. Nie MingJue was still inspecting the corpse in his hand, the head had already dipped. As the heavy statue hit him, he fell right back where he’d been.

Wei WuXian leaped over and stepped onto the Guanyin’s chest. The coffin lid had broken already. They could only use the Guanyin statue as a lid to seal away Nie MingJue and his rampage. Down below, Nie MingJue struck the statue again and again in attempt to break free, while Wei WuXian also shook again and again, reeling so much he was almost thrown off.

And then LWJ lifts the coffin up, seals it with seven quqin strings and lets it fall again to the ground.

Then for the rest of chapter 109 and the beginning of 110, LXC and then WWX ask NHS some questions, after which:

After a while of silence, Wei WuXian spoke, “Let’s stop standing around for nothing. Get a few people to go find assistance. Save a few to stand by here and watch the thing. The coffin and the guqin strings won’t be able to seal ChiFeng-Zun for long.”

As though to verify his judgement, loud noises echoed within the coffin again, along with a nameless fury. Nie HuaiSang shivered. Wei WuXian glanced at him, “You see? You have to switch to a firmer coffin right now, dig a deep ditch, and bury it once more. You won’t be able to open it in at least a hundred years. If you do, it’s guaranteed it’ll continue to haunt, resulting in endless consequences…”

Right after this, the crowd comes pouring in. Some of them do indeed work on strengthening the seal; we're also told that it requires careful handling (which is why it's a few of the sect leaders who volunteer to handle it), and WWX anticipates the near future of the coffin:

Soon, this coffin would be sealed within a larger, firmer coffin. It’d be secured with seventy-two mahogany nails and buried deep underground, sealed under some mountain with stone tablets of warning.

Then we see some sect leaders carrying it outside the temple, and later LQR watches it be hauled onto a cart.

The next we hear of it is in overheard rumour in ch 113, three months later:

Someone switched the subject, “Enough, enough. Why talk about these things? Eat up, eat up No matter how powerful that Jin GuangYao used to be, right now he could be stuck in a coffin brawling with Nie MingJue.”

“I don’t think so. They loathe each other to the core, after all. I bet his bones have already been torn apart by Nie MingJue.”

“Indeed! I went to the sealing ceremony. The resentful energy in that coffin was so strong that no life grew within five hundred feet of it. I’m doubting it, really—could the coffin really seal them for a hundred years?”

Overheard rumour is not the most reliable of things, especially in MDZS—for example, I would not be surprised if it wasn't really five hundred feet. But it gives any sense, and certainly—as WWX indicated above—the coffin is /meant/ to seal them for a hundred years. (Though I have my doubts on this actually working; see here.)

Now let's look at CQL:

After JGY breaks the seal on the coffin, the blood drops onto the Tiger Seal, and resentful energy emerges and the temple starts to crumple; pretty much everyone but wangxian and xiyao flee the temple. LXC lifts his hand to push JGY away, but can't bring himself to do it; JGY asks him to stay and die with him, and he agrees. JGY then pushed him away to save his life, and wangxian catch him and LWJ brings him out of the temple to make sure he actually leaves insead of e.g. running right back in to die with JGY. WWX stays and watches a little; we see JGY turn and confront the resentful energy: "Nie Mingjue. Do you think I will be afraid of you?" The temple continues to collapse, WWX flees, and JGY runs towards the coffin.

(I'm having a hard time with the blocking on this one, I watched it a few times and it looks like they are a) immediately over the coffin when JGY bleeds on it and then immediately after they're...not? Despite not moving??? But the above is what I think is supposed to be going on.)

They're then sitting around in the courtyard outside. They seem to have been sitting around for a while even before WWX's wound heals (not a feature in MDZS, because in MDZS MXY's revenge didn't include JGY); it seems likely that JGY died before that, I think, but that's at least an end point. After this the cultivators rush into the courtyard. Now we finally get people going into the temple again, but there doesn't seem to be any sign or mention of sealing. I thought I remembered mention if a ceremony of some sort, but I can't find it in the rest of the episode and a friend doesn't remember it at all so I think it's pretty likely I was just misremembering/crossing it with MDZS.

But basically: in MDZS, they seal them together /immediately/ after JGY dies, and they proceed very quickly to a stronger, more permanent seal. In CQL, there's no sign of any of this at all! It seems quite plausible that they're not buried together, never mind sealed together. And regardless, it couldn't have happened nearly as immediately; JGY's spirit could have time to flee the coop.

It's also worth remembering that in MDZS when they seal the coffin at the end, it's to immediately deal with /fierce corpse NMJ/, who otherwise would be an extremely powerful, extraordinarily dangerous fierce corpse, made even worse—as WWX notes in ch 107—by having killed JGY.* In CQL it looks like the problem is more the Tiger Seal, I think? And it's not like they need to immediately seal it into the coffin which JGY is also in? It's not even clear that JGY's body actually ends up in the coffin, from what I can see. As far as I can tell there's not really any reason to believe they're buried together. If I had to guess (though I didn't rewatch all relevant scenes, or even all the temple scenes, and I could easily be missing something) I'd say NMJ might be going back to Honourable Burial Nie Land, and JGY's corpse....

Hmmm. That's kind of interesting, come to think of it. If it hasn't mysteriously vanished I'm not sure what would happen to it; I'm inclined to say it wouldn't be treated well except LXC is right there and he might like. Stab someone, honestly. If it /has/ mysteriously vanished—I just might change my mind about CQL LXC killing himself.** In Which a Twin Jade obsessively searches the world for their loved one because there's the possibility they might not be dead, huh.

*"After he killed Jin GuangYao, his killing intent would definitely become stronger, and he’d be more difficult to subdue!"

**I don't think this is the impression CQL as a whole is trying to give us, to be clear, it's just what I think happened.

[chengxians]

Okay so I'm pretty neutral about Wangx!an (like I see the appeal, its the most simple relationship, the devotion, the pining etc.) but one of the things that really bothers me is that LWJ never questions WWX post-revival (at least in the CQL).

And like one of the main issues WWX has is that while he has a good sense of morality, his execution in doing what's right leaves a lot to be desired. But instead of double checking with WWX on if they're doing the right thing the right way or suggesting possible alternatives, it feels like he blindly follows WWX and even goes so far as to enable his behaviour. Which is one of the things about Chengxian that I really like.

JC always questions WWX and WWX is never hesitant to call out JC. It feels like they keep each other in check where as LWJ's behaviour reads as guilt for not being completely on WWX's side and supporting him. And even the ways they think, WWX thinks in terms of "do now, fix as you go along" while JC definitely thinks more about the long-term consequences and the implications it has on broader society which makes them seem more like a balanced team.

Overall, it seems like JC can separate his love and support for WWX (like he can love WWX immensely but still disagree with his actions) vs. LWJ feels like a blind follower who believes WWX can do no wrong.

Is it different in the novel?

okay omg first of all i fucking love this interpretation

i still havent finished cql but i can definitely say that lwj is more well-rounded in the novel, by definition of Being A Novel. he goes through quite a few internal crises because supporting wwx means going against his upbringing, and his relationship with wwx suffers from it.

i think in the novel (how i interpret it anyway) that by the time wwx resurrects, lwj is certainly a bit guilty (that he could never really Say Anything to wwx before he died, etc) but mostly just Content. at that point, he’s already decided that he’s willing to go against his upbringing & the cultivation world as a whole in order to stand at wwx’s side. by nature of being a tv show, cql doesn’t really do him justice!

he definitely DOES suggest alternatives in the novel (& the donghua), most famously “come back to gusu with me [and focus on healing instead]” because he knew he had no chance of changing wwx’s mind at that point. he was attempting damage control because wwx….is Like That LOL

that being said, i LOVE unhealthy and undying devotion. i can see it in lwj AND jc and it’s my favorite thing ever. jc keeps coming back despite being hurt, lwj putting aside his own feelings to follow someone he loves….(chefs kiss) god i fucking love that shit

i adore the phrasing of “jc can separate his love and support for wwx.” like u really put into words The Vibes. i think it’s also that jc’s tumultuous emotions are much more obvious on his face/in his actions, while lwj is very good at hiding his emotions and being classically stone-faced.

i have to Do Things now besides type on my phone but just know i will be thinking about this all day. guilty lwj is such a good flavor god thank u op

[crossdressingdeath]

Morally grey? Who’s morally grey? MDZS is about rebelling from your status and doing the right thing and upholding justice. The fact that the JINS know that the prisoners are indeed old people and a child and spread rumors about WWX building an army is just them covering up for their conspiracy and greeds. It’s all transparent. And the whole ‘wwx was invited into the banquet’ and being ambushed by the jins... imo the jins got scot free off for this. Jins really got off so light in the novel and this novel is actually being so KIND to everyone who is being ‘WRONGED’. Yao doesn’t get permanent seclusion and still badmouth lower class people and gossips about shit as if he is some cool dude at school but nobody likes him, sect leader Ouyang who think they rightfully ‘murdered’ ���cultivators’ but actually are bunch of old people and child. Never get why when people whine about the bad ending of everyone minus WX because if the ending is so bad I agree! It is bad because nobody ever knew Jins ambushed WWX during JL’s 100 day, JL himself doesn’t even know his father is trying to mitigate an ambush initiated by sects! It is bad sect leader Yao still sucks and he doesn’t ever get repercussions for badmouthing JGY and the rumors about WWX, but the moment JGY is rich and respected in the sect he just... bootlicks him. Shows how much where his priority lies. Nobody actually remembers that JGY did murdered a whole clan and framing it for his son’s death is just nobody is investigating this?? No one?? Alright. JYL’s so called ‘sacrifice’ being written off as ‘WWX killed your mother’ is essentially JC ignoring JYL’s love for WWX and brainwashing JL thinking his mother didn’t love him really shows

Okay, so before we get into anything specific... you realize that that’s all moral greyness, yes? The ending of MDZS is morally grey. There’s no “the bad guys all suffer their deserved punishment and the good guys live happily ever after” here; it’s not black and white like that. The end of MDZS involves things getting better, not every problem in the setting magically fixing itself.

Now, on to details. First, the Jins getting off scot-free for ambushing WWX... Everyone involved died. Literally everyone involved in that ambush is dead by the end of the story. I wouldn’t call that scot-free! And no, the sect as a whole isn’t punished for the actions of their leaders because Random Jin Cultivator #24601 isn’t guilty by association because they were run by manipulative jackasses for so long, any more than WQ was responsible for WRH’s actions! As we see with the Wen remnants, the morality of the story (the story, not the setting; important distinction) is that punishing literally everyone for the actions of the people at the top is... y’know, wrong? Outside of that the Jins seem to mostly just be petty assholes, and that’s... not a crime, it’s just annoying. The Jin sect will change now that JL is in charge, and with WWX and LWJ supporting him it’ll change for the better.

Next, Yao and Ouyang. Again, they didn’t commit any crimes? Not knowingly, anyway, they were duped by JC and JGS just like everyone else. I say once again, being a petty asshole isn’t a crime. You can’t lock someone up for being rude! Yes, they’re petty, opportunistic dickheads who ride the coattails of whoever they think will get them highest on the social ladder. So what? There will always be people like that. They aren’t going to go away just because one guy dies. You complain about Yao not being put in permanent seclusion; I ask, what did he do to deserve a punishment that seems to be reserved largely for murderers? He’s a gossipy fucker who insults the lower classes; he’s not likeable, but he’s not a criminal, either. Honestly Yao and Ouyang feel more like... representatives of the worst parts of the cultivation world, more than characters in their own. Yes, they’re selfish, petty people who mock anyone below them and kiss the boots of anyone above them, and when whipped into a frenzy by someone with greater ambition than them they can be dangerous. But MDZS... isn’t a story about solving all the problems in the world and removing anyone who isn’t a perfect pillar of morality. At the end of the day, Yao and Ouyang are at worst minor irritants; no one likes them, but they don’t deserve to be locked up for it.

As for no one remembering JGY wiping out a sect... uh, that is one of the things the sects are baying for his blood over. It’s just that the other things he did are more important in the moment. Patricide and filicide and such are... kind of a bigger deal. Treason against his sect in murdering his sect leader, too. Stuff like that. Yes, it’s a problem that the complete destruction of a sect is considered less important than the deaths of two people because they’re sect leaders and that the sects didn’t even demand proof beyond two people (at least one of whom has explicitly been paid off to testify against him) saying he’d done bad things after he’d been a good leader of the cultivation world for over a decade, but again: MDZS isn’t about solving all the problems of society. It’s about WWX and LWJ.

Basically yes, at the end of the day some people get away with horrible things because they have power and others are targeted by mobs without any solid proof of wrongdoing (which is still a problem in JGY’s case; he actually did do the things he was accused of, but the sects’ response makes it pretty clear they would’ve gone after him even if the accusations were false). And that sucks and it isn’t fair. But MDZS isn’t the sort of story where everything gets wrapped up in a neat little bow and everyone gets exactly what they deserve. If MXTX had done that it would’ve been such a cop-out. MDZS ends on a hopeful note; WWX and LWJ are happy and the next generation is shaping up to be better than the current one. In a story like this... that’s really all we can ask for.

[demonic-cultivar]

The Morality of Nie Huaisang’s Revenge in MDZS (novel) vs CQL (drama series)

OK I was gonna write a whole essay on this but I think it’s better to just do a listicle.

A list of the shitty things Nie Huaisang does in both the novel and CQL:

Sees Mo Xuanyu (a queer, mentally ill youth) in a hopeless/desperate state and convinces him to kill himself

Releases NMJ’s arm (novel) or Baxia’s spirit (CQL) into Mo manor where it kills several people (Were they shitty people? Yea. But does that make it NHS’s right to endanger them and everyone in the vicinity?)

Incites Jin Guangyao’s killing intent on purpose by threatening to reveal all his crimes (NHS isnt directly responsible for what JGY does in response, but he knew what JGY was capable of and threatened him anyway)

Didn’t stop at just eye-for-an-eye/murder-for-murder revenge, but dragged JGY’s entire reputation through the mud, bringing Qin Su down with him (and she killed herself over it!!)

Booby-traps the coffin in the Guanyin temple, which kills/injures the temple’s monks

A list of the super-extra shitty things NHS does in just the novel:

Releases NMJ’s fierce corpse into Yunping City, where it almost kills a group of kids before Wen Ning intercepts it (see chapter 107)

Implied to desecrate the corpse of Meng Shi, not because she did anything wrong, but just to spit on JGY even more (see chapter 110)

Leads the juniors to Yi City on purpose so that when they died he could pin more crimes on JGY (see chapter 109)

Implied to be interested in gaining more power and influence, which is why he stayed in the shadows and didn’t reveal his true colors after JGY’s fall (ambition isn’t necessarily evil, but in context with everything else, it’s Not A Good Look). (see chapters 110 and 113. This is also corroborated by MXTX’s statement that NHS would become the next chief cultivator.)

A list of things they changed in CQL to make NHS less of a terrible person:

Instead of releasing NMJ into the city, he puts the corpse in Meng Shi’s coffin, which definitely cuts down on the number of potential victims

It’s never stated what he did with Meng Shi’s corpse, it’s just missing

Never connected to the Yi City incident (someone still led the juniors there, but the question of who is never answered)

Shows at least some form of remorse from JGY’s death. The scene where NHS picks up the hat and gets blood on his hands, and we get a flashback of JGY as a child? NHS is aware in that moment that JGY was human, and that he was more complicated than just a murderer. (CQL also made their relationship more complicated by adding a whole bunch of scenes for both of them in the teen era, where they were friendly with each other.)

Also shows remorse for what happened with LXC when he goes to speak with him on the steps of the temple. Tries (poorly) to console LXC and looks at him sadly when he walks away.

Flat-out states that he is not interested in the position of chief cultivator in his final scene with WWX and LWJ (he could be lying, but the scene frames him pretty honestly at that point).

In conclusion, NHS isn’t a “good person” in either version, but CQL puts in a lot of work to change things so he’s less of a villain and more of a morally gray character.

(Side note: this is a really interesting foil to what happens to WWX’s and JGY’s portrayals in CQL--they’re both sort of pulled into “hero” and “villain” roles respectively by the changes from their novel versions. They are made less grey. But NHS is given redeeming qualities that are missing from the novel, making him more likable and sympathetic while still being cruel and vengeful.)

[annalacerda17]

I saw a post the other day saying that everyone in MDZS is the hero of their own story and my annoyance with that post led me to write this.

It's ridiculous that some ppl can read the entire book and come out of it thinking everyone is the hero of their own story, or say that if someone else was the main characters, they'd be the hero instead. They wouldn't, because their actions aren't heroic. A main character doesn't have to be a hero. If anyone other than WWX and LWJ were the MCs it wouldn't make them the hero, it would only change the genre of the story.

If MDZS was entirely from JGY's pov it would be a villain centric story, like the Villainous Friends extra. He still wouldn't be the hero, because he's a horrible person who committed atrocities for the sake of achieving power and prestige. JGY himself doesn't think of himself as a hero. Rather, he doesn't care about the morality of his choices, only about how they benefit him personally.

JC, on the other hand, could never have been the protagonist or the pov character. He's just not the kind of character who can carry an entire novel. He's too whiny, he's not particularly intelligent, he's easy to manipulate, his personality is terrible and he never once learns from his mistakes. JC stans like him because he only shows up in small doses to throw himself a pity party he hasn't earned and then goes away, he's never the most important charcter at any point in the story and he isn't well liked by anyone, so he's easy for ppl who have an inferiority complex to self insert into. But if the entire book was from his pov? He'd annoy even his most hardcore stans before the end of the first chapter. And his personal story is just not interesting enough to have a book centered on it. In any case, his actions aren't heroic, so if there was a book written from his pov, with him as the MC (and I mean canon Jiang Cheng, here, not the distorted fanon version) he'd still not be the hero.

If the story was told from Xue Yang's pov, it would probably be a tragedy with no hero (since he only meets WWX soon before his well deserved death and doesn't get to witnes any of WWX's heroic acts aside from XY's own demise, he dies before WWX and LWJ manage to uncover the truth about JGY, and he never gets to see the truth about WWX come out).

My point is, being the MC does not make a hero, and the audience can cheer for any character they have fun reading about or watching, even if they're horrible ppl.

If MDZS had been written from anyone else's pov it wouldn't be MDZS, because WWX is the only character capable of carrying the themes of the novel. It's very important that WWX is not a member of the gentry, it's very important that WWX doesn't hold grudges, it's very important that WWX is willing to do the right thing regardless of personal cost or past suffering, it matters that WWX doesn't undervalue himself because of his lower social status, it's important that WWX won't let others tell him what's right and what's wrong. An MC without those traits couldn't carry this specific story with those specific themes.

If anyone else was the MC, it would be an entirely different story with different themes, and this other MC wouldn't necessarily be a hero.