#impressive how epic tries to give this man a “good justification” for everything he does that is more unhinged

[lucyskywalker]

I'm happy I dropped the hype in 600 strikes 🤷🏽‍♀️. I can't be disappointed if I didn't expect something good in the first place. I am only pissed with the double standard between men and women this musical did - as almost every retelling written nowadays.

I really don't believe it was Jeorge intention, but the way he did this musical pass the energy "Men cannot be a victim of SA, that is a women thing." Since he literally cut out the rape Odysseus suffered in the hands of both Circe and Calypso. Something canonic within the Odyssey, but he made a conscient decision of making this particular threat to Penelope - something that didn't happen within the OG text.

Like... What is the message he tought he was sending? All the "Yes, women cannot be so evil on my retelling, but I will make men even more vicious and vile" exploded on his face, turning to a sexist writing at best in the worst possible way.

And again? She is used as a plot device to Odysseus? She is literally an accessory in the musical till now? That is how it feels like.

+ Why make that? To justify Odysseus actions? To watter down the massacre he have done with "he had a reason"? Wasn't he a monster now? Wasn't ruthlessness mercy upon himself? Why should he care if they deserve to be killed or not?

Side note: As turning the life of Penelope and Telemachus a living hell for years, threatening to kill his son, while they dwell on Hubris turning Odysseus oikos into a chaotic place wasn't justification enough.

On a brighter side: The artists, the singers, the animators, they all deserve a praise. This musical revealed a lot of talented people. It failed to make a good adaptation, but there was something positive out of it.

Hello, I have a question. I am not far in my Odyssey reading and I was wondering about the suitors.

In Epic (yes, you hate it I know, but it's my ref for now) the suitors want to SA Penelope, it is explicitly said. I was wondering if in the OG story, the suitors also wanted to harm her in that way or if they didn't have such intentions.

Hate is a strong word but if there is something that I hate is this whole obsession with people treating mythology of my culture as clean slate and free game to do whatever with and spreading so much misinformation about it or have the obsession to change it to THAT degree in the first place. The musical I think it got straight out disrespectful and ridiculous to the original material plot-wise but I do recognize the passion of the people working on it and I appreciate people who regardless of their like or dislike for it that they are curious to find out on the original Odyssey and they do not consider this musical as some sort of equivalent to the original or substitute to it. My disagreement and dislike for it as well as my annoyance that it takes over social media is strictly my business and mind and has nothing to do with fans of course. I also am against fan mentality for greek mythology because mythology is a rich cultural background and important thing to Greek culture and not another fandom like Harry Potter or lord of the Rings or anything. But of course there is nothing I can do about this mentality either

Anyways I am glad you wanna ask on it.

No that was never said in the Odyssey. That seems like yet another piece of random bullocks for the musical to make the suitors even more "evil" and dislikable. However the suitors DID want to force Penelope to choose one of them as her husband so they obviously wanted to force her to marry. They abused the custom of Xenia or hospitality to stay in the palace for 3 to 4 years while eating and drinking everything and doing basically a psychological war to Penelope, harassing Telemachus with their words or insulting him and they would generally be rude or even abusive to slaves and servants that were loyal to Odysseus. They also lay with the several slave girls at the palace that apparel entered the relationship to gain something while others like Penelope's protégé, a girl named Melantho that Penelope raised from infantry like her own daughter, was apparently in love with one of the suitors. The slave girls betrayed Penelope's secret to the suitors (that she was pretending to make the future funeral shroud for Laertes and at night she was destroying it and starting again in the morning, thus keeping the suitors at bay for 3 years only to be discovered at the 4th).

The suitors definitely wanted to force Penelope to get married and they seemed ready to commit even the murder of Odysseus IF he were to come back (of course that seemed more like boasting than anything else since they were almost certain beyond doubt that Odysseus was dead). Later when Telemachus gained courage by Athena to travel and search information on his father (the part of Odyssey called "Telemachy") they got worried and conspired to murder him and set an ambush for him.

All in all the suitors did many things that are downright criminal such as the conspiracy for murder of Telegony and abusing the law of Xenia. They undoubtedly wanted to force Penelope to marry one of them and they were furious at her trick but no it was never stated in the Odyssey that they would...barge into her room and have their way with her. If they wanted to they would have done it from day one. Penelope was a powerful queen and they were all fascinated by her (when she comes out of her room everyone turns to look at her). So yeah basically their main goal was to force her to marry one of them and they planned Telemachus's murder only when he started gaining confidence and they got worried he might take over the throne himself soon. Also most of them were around the same age group as Telemachus (about a decade or so older perhaps) which increased their worry on what if Telemachus took over.