#iirc that guy was an asshole so I hate him actually

[spineless-lobster]

I will never stop thinking about the fact that I ate a concerning amount of cornflakes as a kid (autism) and I’m also asexual like I’m the fucking guinea pig that proved mr kellogg right what the fuck

[bellysoupset]

i’d actually requested this a while ago, and iirc it didn’t really fit with the timeline back then? when luke and vince weren’t talking.

i’d asked for a fic where lucas and vin watch leo take care of jon during a vertigo episode. like maybe they’re at jon and leo’s place and leo isn’t back from work yet when jonah gets hit with an episode. and both of them are lowkey freaking out. and leo comes in and takes over effortlessly and manages to calm jonah down so much better than either of them did

but if you’d not written this for some other reason then please feel free to ignore it! 🍄

This is probably my favorite fic so far. Maybe. Possibly. It's also long.

------------------------

“Hey, Monacelli,” Vince raised his head and saw Max tapping lightly on the half open door of his classroom. It was halfway through the day and Vince’s classes were already over. From what he had glanced at the overall teachers’ schedule, Daniels still had two more classes to teach, but Vince could go home… But that just seemed a little depressive. 

His parents were busy and his sisters were in class, so going home just meant being alone and he’d much rather stay in school and finish going over the kids’ papers. 

“Yeah?” Vince lowered his red pen and the blonde man pointed over his shoulder, to the sunny patio behind him. 

“Your boyfriend’s here,” Max said in a smug tone and Vince’s blood immediately boiled over. 

He could count in one hand the amount of transphobic shit he had witnessed with Wendy, but Vince wasn’t stupid. He was aware Doveport was fairly conservative and had been bracing for a bigoted comment for a while now.

“I don’t have a boyfriend, you asshole, I have a girlfriend,” he said sharply, dropping the pen immediately and Max jumped back, startled. 

“Uhm, okay, sorry for assuming? But there’s some guy in the parking lot waiting for you,” he shrugged, seeming offended, “geez,” the blonde turned around with an exasperated eye roll and power walked away, leaving a befuddled Vince behind. 

Vin grimaced, realizing he had assumed the worst for absolutely no reason and making a mental note to apologize to the other teacher, before the reality of some dude caught up with him. Weird, but a good surprise, Vince thought, packing up his bag and locking up his classroom. 

He fully expected to find Luke in the parking lot and was not wrong, the guy was sitting on the hood of his green jeep, sunglasses on and chuckling about something. What Vince did not expect was to see Jon standing right next to him, also wearing sunglasses and a jacket, smiling. 

Hell must have frozen over, Vince thought with a smirk, watching the two laugh. It wasn’t rare to see Jonah and Lucas laughing together, even if the two wanted everyone to think they hated each other, but today they looked particularly relaxed. 

“What is going on…?” Vince asked, opening a huge smile of his own when Luke promptly jumped from the hood of the car in order to tackle him into a hug. He squeezed the guy back, half hugging Luke with one arm as they pulled apart, in order to look at Jonah, “Jon?” 

“Hi,” Jonah gave him a small wave, “so uhm- Wendy showed me your birthday gift to her and uh- I wanted - I was wondering-”

It was so weird to watch Jon fumble with his words. Vince frowned, confused, then looked at Luke for an explanation. His best friend was blushing on Jon’s behalf, with a smile so gigantic Vince could see his molars. 

“Oh my god, Jonah!” He exclaimed after a minute, “he wants to buy Leo a ring.”

It took Vince a second, but then he let go of Lucas, all but yelling “YOU’RE GONNA PROPOSE TO LEO!?” and rushing to pull Jon into a hug. 

The other man stiffened, but he had no chance to fight Vince off, nor did he even want to and he melted into the hug for a minute, muffling a chuckle and mumbling a little sheepish “yeah… And I wanted your jewelry recommendation. I really liked Wendy’s birthday present and I think Leo would have my head if I got him a Cartier.” 

“And he wants our help to pick,” Lucas completed the unspoken truth and Jonah glared at him, turning a shade darker with a blush. 

“Shut up-”

“Yeah! YEah, of course, of course!” Vince interrupted the bickering, all but bouncing on his feet, his voice breaking and going up a note,  “Leo’s going to explode with happiness-”

It took Vin a moment to calm down and then yet another moment as they figured out the logistics of it all. Vince still had his motorcycle, so they decided he should just stick with it and drive ahead of them, Luke and Jon following in the jeep. 

The local jewelry shop where Vince had bought Wendy’s birthday was also owned by Italians. The old owner was a friend of Vin’s mom and he lit up as the three men walked into his store. 

“Back for more so soon, Vicenzo?” he asked in a thick italian accent, “I told you, there’s no coming back from the first diamond you get her.” 

“No,” Vince shook his head, planting his hands on Jonah’s shoulders and shaking him like a rattle toy, “today I’m here just as a helper. My friend wants to buy his man a ring.” 

“Hi, I’m Jonah,” Jonah tried to shrug Vince off, offering his hand to the owner.

“Niccolo Fanucci, it’s a pleasure.”

Luke was already inspecting the rings on display, crouching down to get a better look at them, “Leo wouldn’t want anything too flashy,” he said, tunnel vision fully on, “so what are you thinking? Yellow, silver? Tungsten?” 

Jonah wrinkled his nose, “tungsten?” he scoffed, “I’m not buying my fiance a tungsten ring.” 

“What’s wrong with them?” Vince frowned, completely out of his depth. Buying Wendy her birthday gift had taken him hours and he still wasn’t convinced he had done a good job. Probably had, Jonah wouldn’t be there if he didn’t think the quality and design were good enough. 

“Tungsten is extremely durable, almost impossible to scratch-” Luke shrugged and Jonah glared at him. 

“And cheap,” he said sharply, “I want a real ring for Leo.”

“How real?” Vince raised his eyebrows, noticing Niccolo — the owner — visibly perk up as it became clear Jon was down for purchasing the whole store if needed. 

“The best. I want a diamond. Or a bunch,” Jonah leaned over the display, as Niccolo hurried to get his best stuff out of the safe, as well as his design magazines. 

“You want personalized, son?” the man asked and Jon shook his head. 

“No time, I want to propose before his birthday,” he explained, “and that’s next month.”

“We could design something in time,” the man shrugged, opening the bunch of magazines, “how’s this boy of yours? Flashy? Shy?”

“Shy,” Luke got up from his crouched down position, “Leo would rather die than walk around with a huge sparkly ring, Jon, you know that.”

Jonah pouted, “but I want it to be a wedding ring,” he stressed, “I want everyone to know he’s married from across the court.”

“Lawyer?” Niccolo raised an eyebrow, shutting his magazine and throwing it to the side, opening a much older one, “is he traditional?” 

“More or less…” Jonah shook his head, while Vince interrupted him, nodding. 

“Yes,” he flicked at Jon’s ear, “he’s shy and not flashy at all. He also doesn’t wear jewelry, so it has to be comfy.”

“It has to be yellow,” Jon didn’t argue with Vince, despite grimacing. 

Luke frowned, “he’s blonde and super pasty, white gold would look prettier-”

“I want yellow gold, I want it to be clear it’s a wedding band.” 

“Don’t be silly,” Niccolo shook his head, “it can be white gold or platinum and still look like a wedding band.”

“He’s in a straight dominated field where men wear rings, if he has a silver band people will assume it's just some ring,” Jonah groaned, pinching the bridge of his nose, “this is pretty.”

“Absolutely not,” Vince and Luke chorused, looking at the yellow band Jon was pointing at, with three baguette diamonds in the peak. 

“Alright, so yellow gold,” Niccolo flipped through the pages, “and not flashy, but flashy enough people know.”

“It has to be something he likes,” Jonah sighed, studying the rings, “he’s gonna wear it until he dies, so.”

Luke let out a snort, “or not,” he mumbled, only to immediately recoil and jump back as Jon turned to face him like a snake, “because he might get a new one!” he exclaimed, hands raised as if his friend was gonna hit him, “relax!” 

“Shut up, you don’t know Leo enough. What do you think, Vin?” Jonah turned away from Luke and Vince grinned, noticing the other man pout behind Jon. 

“I think I agree with you about the yellow,” he shrugged, “but the diamonds are a bit much, man. Let’s focus on how thick it is, how about?” 

Jonah didn’t know it could take so long to pick a ring. He had expected it would take more than a couple of minutes, after all he was a perfectionist and not willing to compromise in this matter, but at every little thing he said, Luke and Vince had twenty different arguments. 

Finally, after about two hours of back and forth, they settled on a yellow gold ring, with a brushed finish instead of smooth polish and with a baguette small diamond sitting in the middle of it. 

“Now you need to pick the thickness,” Niccolo said, “wait a minute while I get my kit. Sit around, Vincenzo knows where the coffee is. Have a torrone.”

Jonah snorted quietly to himself, he had never been to a jewelry shop that offered a torrone or any type of sticky, sweet food. But then again he had never been in a locally owned shop. 

He walked outside, hearing as Vince and Luke bickered over the gem cut — Vince still thought the pear one was prettier, Luke was team no gem and partial to some design fussiness on the band — and then pressed his forehead to the brick wall outside the store and picked out his phone. 

There wasn’t a text from Leo, they had last spoken that morning, when Jonah had lied through his teeth that he had a surgery to watch that evening and so they couldn’t have lunch together. 

Jonah rolled his shoulders, letting out a breath. He felt stiff all over from stress, the huge weight of picking something that could make or break his proposal making him sweat. He felt nauseous too, but in all truth he had been feeling sick to his stomach with nerves ever since Leo got his promotion and Jon made up his mind about proposing. 

That had always been his plan, after all. Wait until his boyfriend got the promotion that would put them on equal pay, so Leo wouldn’t have a breakdown over wedding prices or feeling like he was being given anything when Jackie inevitably tried to hijack the bill…

“You okay?” Luke planted a hand on his elbow. 

Lucas was almost levitating with how happy he was. It was like he was the one getting married, the dude simply didn’t seem able to stop smiling, even now looking a little concerned and holding a paper cup of coffee. 

“Yeah,” Jonah wiped the sweat off and straightened up, “Niccolo is back?”

“Yep, we’re just waiting for you,” Luke chugged the rest of the coffee that his hyper ass definitely didn’t need and squeezed Jon’s bicep in a cuteness aggression fit, shoving him further inside the store. 

The old owner was holding a large hoop, with a bunch of silver rings on it. Upon Jonah arriving, he opened the hoop, so he could remove the rings one by one, “you said he’s traditional and shy, but not so traditional —” the man said, barely looking up, with that certainty of someone who’s been doing their job their entire life, “and you’ll have a diamond on the band, so you need some thickness, especially if you don’t want the bling to stand out that much…” 

He carefully pushed two bands towards Jon, “try these on and tell me what you think, son.”

Jonah went to grab it, only for his hand to completely miss it. He blinked a couple times, feeling Vince grab him by the elbow.

“Jon, hey- You wanna sit down?”

“No, I’m fine,” Jon shook his head, swallowing down the heightened nausea and grabbing the ring on the left. It was too large on his hand, he had thinner pianist fingers, but the important part was the width, “looks a bit bulky… What size is the rock again?”

Niccolo grabbed a tiny piece of sticker paper and measured, cutting it out and then planting the paper in the middle of the band, “this size.”

“Yeah, no…” Jon shook his head, “not this one.”

“That’s a 5.5mm, try the 4.5mm one,” Niccolo took the ring back, once again doing the paper trick, “that’s a more old fashioned groom width.”

“I think it looks better,” Luke said, as if someone asked him, poking his head in. Jonah nodded, suddenly feeling too woozy. He darted out a hand to grab on something… Anything… Then landed on Vince’s forearm and squeezed. 

“That’s the one,” Jon determined, dead set on getting the bloody ring before vertigo took him out, “uhm- Luke, can you…?”

“Yeah, yeah, I can,” Lucas stepped in front of him, smiling to the confused old man, “I’m buying.”

“I’m sorry, what?”

Jon overheard Niccolo say, but there was a ringing in his ears starting to drown everything out. He squeezed Vince’s arm, “help me outside…”

Vince helped him the couple of steps it took for them to get to the door, then he wrapped an arm around his waist and pulled Jon almost off his feet, dragging him to a bus stop bench. 

Jonah crumpled, spreading his legs and grabbing on the plastic of the bench with all his force, breathing through his mouth, “Fuck,” he sighed, cold sweat spreading down his back, “of all days…”

“I’m sorry, man,” Vince squeezed his nape, “help me here, what do I do?”

“No-nothing…” Jonah leaned forward even more, as his stomach rolled, the world turning into a complete blur. He let out a whimper, feeling like he was falling forward, except the ground never met his face, he just kept falling, falling-

“Should he be lying down!?” Vince’s voice broke through the fog, “I don’t know what to do, you’re the one who’s good with sick people!” 

“Not sick like this!” Luke’s voice answered and Jonah groaned, blindly trying to grab at Luke and shut him up.

“Ssssstop-” Jonah slurred, realizing his mouth felt super sticky and his pants humid. Oh no. Had he wet himself? 

Mortification caused Jon to open his eyes, only to realize the wet spot was just the fact he had puked the McBacon he had had with Luke on their way to Doveport all over the ground and his pants. 

The sight of the chunky brown mess caused his stomach to flip again and Jonah heaved once more, the movement ruining the sliver of balance he had regained and sending the world spinning on its axis once more. 

“ — My place?” Vince, his voice much closer now, as if he was talking in his ear. Jon let his head roll towards the sound and his cheek met something soft- Vince’s thigh? Stomach? 

“I guess!?” Lucas, sounding more than a little nervous, “should we call Leo? Wendy? Hell, your mom?!”

Jon groaned. He wanted none of these people, except maybe Wendy. He desperately wanted Leo’s comfort and the fact his boyfriend wouldn’t be freaking out like the two idiots, but that would mean telling Leo what he was doing in fucking Doveport and-

“Noo,” he slurred, his voice muffled by something, probably Vince’s shirt, “no k- no calling-” his stomach was done with his words and Jonah coughed again, as liquid rushed up his throat and world tilted completely to the left, then right-

“I’m calling Leo,” Lucas, all decisive, “there’s no way this is normal, right? I’m calling him.” 

“The fuck will Leo do if this isn’t?” Vince, sounding far away now. Jonah tried to cling to his voice and make himself responsive, but he just… Couldn’t. When he tried to open his eyes again, he realized he was in a completely different place. 

A pink room?

The black spots clumped in front of his eyes and Jonah let out a whimper, scared and humiliated, and then darkness swallowed him up.

-----------------------------

“Where is he?” Leo’s heart was hammering in his ears. He didn’t suppose anything was scarier than hearing the person you loved the most was completely down for the count, hours away. 

Luke’s call had come at the very end of his day, just as he was packing up to go home. Leo had never made it home, he picked it up on the elevator and felt his heart plummet down to his stomach. 

During the four hours of drive he had plenty of time to think, but had actually done none of that. His head was spinning, nothing made sense, but he didn’t actually give a shit about puzzling things together until he got a look on Jon, because from the way Luke described it, all panicked, it sounded like his worst case yet. 

In fucking Doveport.

He hadn’t been to Vince’s new place yet and for a second Leo felt completely out of place, standing outside of the small one bedroom apartment. Then Luke stepped out of the bedroom, the front of his shirt with a huge wet spot on it and looking visibly worried and Leo’s confusion melted straight into worry.

“He’s here, but he’s really out of it,” Luke leaned on the doorway as Leo walked past him, storming into Vince’s bedroom. 

Jonah was a sight to behold. His six foot tall boyfriend was curled up on his side, almost in a fetal position and looking terribly tiny.

“God, Jon…” Leo walked closer, sitting on the bed and touching the other man’s naked shoulder. Luke and Vince had stripped him down to just his boxers, but he had no fever, in fact he felt cold and clammy to the touch, “why did you dumbasses remove his clothes?”

“Uhm- He kinda, hurled all over ‘em?” Vince scratched at his cheeks, seeming embarrassed, “we didn’t know what to do, once we got them off every time we tried to move him to get him dressed he just seemed to get worse…”

“Great, that’s just fucking great,” Leo scoffed, scooting closer and stroking Jon’s cheek, pushing his tight curls back, “did you get any water in him? When did-”

“It was around 4 PM,” Luke answered, while Vince shook his head to the previous question. 

Leo glanced at his watch. 9:26 PM. Amazing.

“Get me some water, the meds that are in my car, in the glovebox, and a straw. And an empty bowl. And a big sweater, he’s fucking freezing,” he glared at the two, before returning his gaze back to Jon, stroking his head again, “Jonah…” he whispered, leaning in, “angel, I need you to wake up.”

His boyfriend was completely out. His breath smelled sweet, causing Leo’s nose to wrinkle, and he was shivering violently. Leo smoothed a hand down his naked back, moving even closer and feeling Jonah’s steady heartbeat. 

“Hey, Jon,” he pressed his hand in, instead of shaking him, “baby, wake up.”

It took another minute of gentle pushing and calling until Jon’s eyes slipped open. He was out of it and his eyes rolled back, taking another thirty seconds to fully focus on Leo.

“Oh no,” he groaned, curling up more, “not you.”

“Yeah, me,” Leo rolled his eyes, pushing the flash of hurt he felt at Jonah’s words away and grabbing the items Luke had planted on Vince’s bedside table, “I need you to drink some water, okay?”

“Won’t stay down…” Jonah whispered, closing his eyes again, a wrinkle appearing between his eyebrows as if he was in pain, “Leo, I don’t feel well…”

“I know, angel, I know,” Leo’s heart squeezed in sympathy and he leaned in, planting a kiss on his boyfriend’s brow, “trust me here, okay?” he squeezed Jon’s arm, before turning slightly around in order to dissolve the little pink pill that was supposed to help with the vertigo episodes in the glass of water. 

Technically speaking, Leo was aware he shouldn’t do this. Wendy had scolded him once about it… But so far it worked like a charm every time and Leo was not about to listen to Wendy when the matter was Jon. 

“Okay, just a tiny sip,” he held the straw between his fingers, pushing it in Jonah’s mouth and grabbing the man’s pillow in order to tilt his body up just enough he could swallow without choking, “just one, baby.”

It took some prodding, but eventually Jonah took what Leo counted as a fourth of the water. He glanced at his watch again. 09:41 PM. 

“Try to keep this down and we’ll try the rest in a bit,” Leo whispered, draping Vince’s older sweater around Jonah’s naked shoulders and continuing to pet his hair. 

Luke entered the room, every bit like a dog with his tail between his legs, “is he okay…?”

“He will be,” Leo rolled his tense shoulders, then turned his head until his jaw clicked, holding all the tension on his mouth, “what the fuck is he doing in Doveport?”

Luke and Vince exchanged a look, then they both shrugged.

Leo squinted at them, “well?”

“I called him,” Vince said, his whole face turning red, “I called them both, I’m sorry, I just- I was having a bit of a breakdown over Wendy and Jonah just came over to say I’m stupid and-”

“And he brought Luke?” Leo didn’t buy this for a second, but most importantly, the fact Vince was lying to his face only made him feel more furious, “okay.”

“He did! Because he knows I’m the only one who can get through Vince!” Luke sounded so smug about the lie, Leo stared at him, unimpressed. He let his eyes drift away from the dark haired men, looking around the room. 

Jonah’s clothes were folded on top of Vince’s little office table, alongside other papers and all sorts of school items, like stickers and scissors. One of Vin’s bedroom walls was painted dusty pink. 

“You called Jonah first?” Leo asked, feeling his blood turn to ice in his veins, as Vince nodded enthusiastically. 

“I mean, it was about Wendy,” he said, as if that explained everything. Leo nodded, looking over his shoulder. Outside the window he could see Luke’s green jeep parked all crooked in front of the place.

“Yeah, of course,” he agreed through his teeth, turning mechanically and grabbing the glass of water, “Jon, let’s try another sip, baby.”

It took nearly one hour to have Jon fully draining the glass and by then Leo was in full automatic pilot. If he thought too much about the lies, then his thoughts turned a dark, spiraling path that he didn’t enjoy and he didn’t want to indulge. 

Because lies or no lies, he knew Jonah would never do any of the things his brain kept sprouting up. Break up with him. Cheat. 

“I’m fine,” Leo overheard Luke say across the house, as Vince ordered all of them food from the living couch, “no, Bell, I’m really fine, I promise. I’m with Vin, Leo and Jon.”

Leo gulped down the knot in his throat and glanced down, to Jonah napping near his thigh, still all curled up. At least now he had quit shivering violently and none of the medicine had made it back up, so it was well into his bloodstream. 

They were out of the woods, as soon as Jon woke up he’d feed him another round of meds and then- 

“Leo?” Jonah whispered, curling up even more and pressing his forehead to the blonde’s knee, “Leo?”

“Hey,” Leo leaned in, folding in half and forcing his voice past the lump in his throat, “I’m here.”

“Uhm,” Jon let out a little pleased noise, then opened his eyes, “I wanna go home.”

“In a little bit,” Leo kissed his cheek, squeezing his arm, “let’s try sitting up first, okay? It’s a long trip, you really don’t wanna be in the car in case you’re not feeling your best-”

“Leo,” Jonah frowned at him, pushing himself up and letting out a moan, getting a gray cast as he paled, “what’s wrong?”

“My boyfriend is sick?” Leo rolled his eyes, trying to keep the bitterness from his voice, “how’s sitting up?”

“It’s fine,” Jonah raised a shaky hand to his face, rubbing the sleep off his eyes, “I wanna go home.”

“We’re leaving in a bit,” Leo said more firmly, pushing back and collecting his dignity. He felt terrible, equal parts worried and furious and intrigued and terrified – “drink some water, will you?”

Jonah obeyed, frowning, but he was right. He really was as fine as he was going to get so soon, even if weak and shaky, clearly nauseous still. 

Leo managed to keep him down for another one hour and a half, but by the time midnight rolled on — Vince flipping through the TV channels clearly trying to be a decent host, while Lucas had passed out on the floor next to the couch, his head tipped back as he snored —, Jonah glared at him and said in a firm voice, “I wanna sleep in my bed. Can we please go home?”

Leo nodded, rubbing his eyes and trying to feel a little less sleepy himself. He wasn’t so sure he could drive, but he was feeling too proud to admit to that. 

 “Are you sure?” Vince yawned, stumbling up as he saw Leo helping Jonah put on his clothes – they had already been washed and dried long before, “you can stay the night, guys, take my bed and I’ll take the couch and-”

“No, we’re leaving,” Jonah shook his head, holding tightly on the wall to stay upright, “thank you, for everything, but no.”

Vin didn’t look one bit pleased, “this is a horrible idea, it's super late... Leo tell him it’s a horrible idea-”

“We’re going,” Leo couldn’t feel a shred of sympathy for Vince. He was trying, but failing miserably. Now that Jonah was up and stubborn as ever, concern was quickly getting replaced with simple, unmitigated fury. 

“Please call me when you get there,” Vince hung at the door, “please? I’m gonna be up.”

“We’ll call,” Jonah agreed, stumbling to Leo’s car and bracing against it, breathing through his mouth. For a split second Leo considered staying, ignoring Jon’s stubbornness and his own pride and the anger and fear bubbling at the pit of his stomach and just stay and think all of this through in the morning- 

“Goodnight guys,” Vince said in a small voice and Jonah waved, opening a little secret smile to the guy and Leo’s second thoughts burst like a bubble. 

They needed to head home and only then he’d be able to think things through clearly.

Leo’s fingers drummed nervously on the steering wheel as they hit the road, Jon curling up against the window and watching the cars zoom past them. Headlights turning into lines of yellow and white and red.

“Why were you there?” Leo asked, one hour into the trip, when he could no longer hold it in. He turned up the heater, just a bit, noticing Jon was trembling again.

His boyfriend shrugged, but didn’t say anything, and Leo squeezed the steering wheel with a bit more force. 

“Jonah,” he said, his voice dropping, “I need you to talk with me, because I’m freaking out-”

“I can’t tell you,” Jonah’s voice was shot, “I can’t, okay? You just have to trust me-” 

“You already lied to me today, so cut the crap and tell me what were you doing in Doveport and not in surgery like you said-”

“Vince told you!” Jon exclaimed and Leo looked away from the road, his eyes wide in complete shock and anger. 

“You mean the lie he told me!? Do you think I’m stupid?!” Leo forced himself to look ahead, “Vince cannot lie to save his life and you want me-”

“It wasn’t a-”

“He called you first, but it was Luke’s jeep outside, not your car. In his story, you picked up Luke,” Leo hissed, starting to see red, “you lied to my face this morning, Jonah, so this was not some random, panicked call you got in the middle of your day. This was premeditated and-”

“Can’t you just please trust me?” Jonah glared at him, “Leo, what reason do you have not to trust me-”

“The fact that you’re LYING!?” Leo exclaimed, pulling the car to the dust shoulder and causing Jon to let out a whine at the sudden motion. He couldn’t drive like this, barely paying the road any attention. 

Jon was breathing through the dizziness when Leo turned to him, panting as he tried to keep his emotions at bay, “Jon, just be honest with me-”

“Please, please just drop it. It’s nothing bad-”

“Are you cheating on me?” Leo said without thinking and felt pathetic as he heard the words said out loud. He knew this wasn’t it, he knew it deep in his bones that whatever Jonah did, it would never be that. 

It didn’t stop the intrusive thought from continuously sprouting up.

Jonah’s head snapped and he glared at Leo, all vulnerability slipping away for a second and being replaced with anger, “oh my god, listen to yourself, Leo! You really think, I- God, you’re being fucking- You’re ruining everything,” he pushed the passenger door open and pushed himself out, causing Leo to jump out of the car as well. 

“I don’t know what to think! You’ve been acting weird for days and now you’re lying to me and your little buddies are all helping in the lie and I’m here, fucking nursing you-” 

“I DIDN’T FUCKING ASK YOU TO COME!” Jon yelled, hitting the car with a hand and Leo jumped at the explosion, his eyes wide and his heart speeding up, only to suddenly stop as Jonah’s shoulders shook and he folded in, grabbing on the top of the car with both hands and letting his head hang. 

Leo took a second, trying to make any sense of the scene in front of him, but then his body was moving before his mind caught up. Grabbing Jon by the shoulder, feeling his whole frame shake with sobs. 

“Jon- Shit, shit, shit, Jonah I didn’t mean to make you cry,” Leo mumbled frantically, his thoughts clearing up due to the searing certainty he had just messed up severely, “I didn’t mean to hurt you, baby, shit-” he cupped Jonah’s face and tried to wipe away the tears, only for the other man to shove his hands away. 

“Stop- Stop fucking t-touching me-” Jonah groaned, stumbling and falling sit on the passenger side, his legs still out of the car, covering his face with his hands as he continued to cry, “I can’t be-believe you think I- I would never- I-”

“No, I know, I know,” Leo sunk to his knees, mind reeling as he ignored Jon’s plea to stop touching him and grabbed his boyfriend’s wrist, “Jon, I’m so sorry, I’m an ass, I know you wouldn’t-”

Jonah’s whole frame shook with a sob and he angrily shoved Leo back, but in his movement the blonde got a decent look at his face and his heart broke in a billion pieces. Jonah looked genuinely hurt, tears streaming down his face and clinging to his chin, green eyes all red due to the crying-

“I’m so sorry,” Leo leaned in, pressing his forehead to Jonah’s and cupping his face, “baby, please stop crying-”

“I- I was-was,” Jonah pulled back, angrily wiping the tears and Leo let out a whine at the loss of contact. 

“I don’t wanna know,” he cut him off, “you’ll tell me later, a- another day,” Leo forced himself to say, “it’s fine, I don’t wanna-”

“I was buying your fucking proposal ring,” Jonah spat, glaring at him, his voice raspy, “and now you ruined it.”

Leo’s ears rang and he fell back on his ass in the humid grass, feeling like suddenly he was the one who had vertigo. He opened and closed his mouth, then felt tears springing up, “my proposal ring?” the question didn’t even sound like his voice.

Jonah scoffed, nodding, “yeah. You jackass, your proposal ring. Happy now? I was gonna propose at your birthday and they were just helping me and now you fucking ruined it and-”

“Yes,” Leo answered, without thinking and causing Jon’s mouth to snap shut, then open again, then shut in a tight line.

“No,” he glared at the blonde, “I’m not-”

“I’ll ask then,” Leo rolled his eyes, moving forward so he was resting on just one knee in front of the car door, “you can’t un-propose, you bought me a ring, I- I’ll ask. Are you gonna say no?”

Jonah frowned, clearly stuck between the rock and the sword, because he really didn’t want to propose on the side of the road, with his head throbbing from crying and puking, still wanting to strangle Leo and feeling wounded as fuck- With the ring on the pocket of his jacket… But there was simply no world or reality where he said no to Leo asking him to marry him. 

“You can’t steal my proposal,” Jonah scoffed, grabbing the box in his pocket and grossly sniffling, wiping the tears with the back of his hand, “you’re such a dick,” he opened the box. 

“You’re a romantic,” Leo grinned, then chuckled, “I can’t see the ring, it’s too dark.”

“SEE!” Jonah exclaimed, angry, “it’s a horrible proposal and you’re the one who ruined-” he never quite finished the complaint, as Leo leaped and kissed him, pushing Jon flat on his back inside the car. 

“I don’t need to see the ring,” Leo groaned, kissing him again and again, "the answer is always yes, Jon. Ring, no ring, it's always yes.”

[twothpaste]

earthbound old man tier list

S Tier: Doctor Andonuts. idc what anyone says, he is a fascinating bewilderful tragic morally dubious rubiks cube of a character, and if i think about him for longer than 10 seconds i get so emo i wanna dye my hair black and run away into the woods. he is also very funny. i would squash him like putty.

A Tier: Wess. mother 3 wouldn't be mother 3 without Wess and i'm not kidding. i love how he is written as both a terrifying abusive father and also a genuinely wise antifa ally, the duality of humanity or whatever. a bunch of his lines still give me chills to this day. especially [ this one ]

Leder as well. absolute fucking real one. imagine taking a vow of silence for the rest of your life to protect your beloved community, none of whom even can remember the sacrifices you've made for them, singlehandedly bearing a lifetime of unfathomable trauma to spare them theirs. he is atlas with the planet earth on his shoulders. yet another character who turns my brains into spaghetti-os.

B Tier: George is one of the most intriguing characters in the series. Boy, I wish Itoi took the time to actually Write him!!! so many questions, so little canon material, but my imagination does drive me a bit to madness with this guy I fear.

C Tier: the fuck do you mean Geldegarde Monotoli was super wicked evil under Giygas' influence, kidnapped Paula, took over Cartoon New York with sheer capitalist ruthlessness - then as soon as you break the Mani Mani statue he's like -tiny bichon frise sneeze- "ouuugghhh goodness gracious i'm so sorry, i don't know what came over me, i am so harmless and frail and made of pudding also" -little pekingese cough- and Paula is like "don't worry ness 👧 he was just a sweet old man all along lol!!!" nvm it's pretty funny actually

Grandpa Alec goes in C Tier too. imo he's well written in chapter 1. his reaction to grief feels really off-kilter in a strangely human & believable way, like?? he is snapping at Lucas and immediately feeling remorse, cracking jokes to try and assure Flint (and himself) everything is ok when it clearly isn't, kooky silly and also unsettling at the same time. i think people forget that he's also a messy clumsy maladjusted grieving dad, just like Flint. but after chapter 1 he kinda falls off, doesn't have much interesting to say or add to the story. i find myself kinda wishing Lucas had a closer relationship to his grandpa implied post-timeskip… oh well.

is Jonel old? his sprite doesn't look ancient but considering his attitude & his adult kids I imagine him to be in his 60's probably. i like that he's a bit of an asshole, and his moment at the prayer sanctuary implies a religious aspect to the village that's super intriguing… iirc he has a line all the way in New Pork where he trash talks Flint for still holding out hope & tryin to find Claus, and it's like?? damn, Jonel, a cunt to the bitter end!! gotta love that.

likewise Mayor Pusher is one of those Tazmily villagers who really highlights how fake & callous some of these people can be. i love the part toward the end of chapter 7 where he blabbers about how much he hates this hick town and he's so eager to leave already, and when he catches Lucas eavesdropping iirc he's rude as ever to him. what a douchebag! no wonder his son is so depressed ❤️

Nippolyte is a benign real one and I like him, even though there's not much to him.

wish Scamp did or said literally anything of note before dying. oh well

D Tier: yeah fuck Mr. Carpainter though. i don't believe for a second he was solely driven to become a cult leader by alien brainwashing alone, dude's gonna be on some MLM shit within a year mark my words

??? Tier: i don't consider Mother 3 Porky an old man, i consider him Very a forever thirteen year old trapped in a sickly grotesque disproportionaltely aging body. but if you do consider him an old man, he's in the stratosphere tier blowing up the moon

[sidetable-drawer]

So there's actually only ONE Hallmark Christmas special that's legitimately pretty good and out of everything it's based off of those greeting cards 60-year-old coworkers buy each other:

I was scouring YouTube for some weird/bad Christmas movies and specials to riff on with friends this year when I stumbled upon it. It went direct-to-video in 1999 and IIRC hasn't been released since. I have no idea if this even aired on TV (most likely on Odyssey/Hallmark Channel in the early 2000s but IDK). Expecting a 30 minute ad for the Hallmark Store (seriously, Maxine and Floyd were inescapable there in the 90s), I was actually pleasantly surprised by it- for starters, Everett Peck, who created Duckman, was helming it (and I recognized some Klasky-Csupo names in the credits). Most importantly, Tress MacNeille voices the title character (using the Agnes Skinner voice no less)...and she does an AMAZING job. You can tell she was having a blast with this and now when I see these cards I can't unhear Tress. She's a legend.

Anyway it's a pretty standard Christmas Carol spoof so it's nothing TOO special but I really wasn't expecting to relate to the old lady on the boomer cards so much. They even gave her a "start of darkness" caused by her childhood friends being materialistic assholes which soured her view on people in general (I totally get it). They had to add a ton of new characters to this obviously (which makes me wonder if this was also a backdoor pilot for a primetime cartoon or more specials that ultimately never got picked up), and they gave Maxine a neighbor kid named Billy who's kind of close with her and he's all "my parents said I could invite anyone to the Christmas party so I'm gonna pick the old lady next door who hates everyone" and she even defends him when some kids are throwing snowballs at him (by proceeding to throw snowballs at the other kids) and honestly it's actually pretty adorable. They reminded me of Slappy and Skippy Squirrel and I'm sad we never got more of it. There's also a hilarious "spoof aesop" at the end which is basically "yeah, be nice on Christmas but you can be a miserable asshole every other day of the year!", so they're clearly not taking things too seriously here. I love it.

The main downsides are that for some reason Andy Dick has a voice role in this because IDK it was 1999 but at least he's not in the whole thing, and the only other real downside is that you can tell nobody seemed to know what the target audience for this was. The special itself is pretty PG rated; it's family friendly ENOUGH but there's one bit where Maxine threatens to flip Andy Dick's character off (which is a very appropriate reaction to him in general) and most of the humor is aimed at an older audience, meanwhile the greeting card franchise it was based off of are sold primarily towards the 50-and-up crowd and contain light swearing and innuendo (meaning nothing kids would be buying or receiving), and then this was released by a VHS company primarily for kids (Family Home Entertainment). So I can kiiiiinda see why this didn't take off since they seemed to have no idea who to aim it at (which I also blame on the "it's a cartoon so it MUST be for kids!"), but while nothing classic, is still pretty damn good. Maybe we need more of these (and PLEASE have Tress come back) and less of "successful white single career woman in the city goes back to her childhood home in the country and meets some white guy who convinces her to have more Christmas spirit and leave her successful high-paying job so she can be a housewife".

Also Floyd. Look at this dog. I love this dog.

[sergeifyodorov]

I'm a new jets fan and I am sooo curious about your post about the locket room being toxic. is it just a vibe or is there actually known fueds between players?

okay i am going to state that the majority of this is hearsay/gossip, but here's a few things i can state fairly confidently

evander kane (noted ex-jet and ex-shark, current oiler) was not liked in the locker room, at least by dustin byfuglien (who i will shortly refer to as "buff," a nickname of his)

buff was an F/D for the jets/thrashers, and an alternate captain for them as well as a perennial all-star. there is an actual photo of him flipping off evander, so this feud is the least alleged thing about the Jetsuation (jets situation). right before the pandemic buff was granted a leave of absence and then a contract termination -- the rumours about this are twofold; one, that his body was breaking down (he was frequently injured so there's almost certainly truth to this) and two, that he was Not Friends with blake wheeler/mark schiefele

mark schiefele was essentially a co-captain, from what i can tell (now that wheeler is a] stripped of the captaincy b] a ranger and c] not long for the nhl, i imagine they might Name him), and is known to be firstly, an evangelical Christian (no hate, but, like, if you don't work in the church and your christianity is more than two lines in your wikipedia page? harshes the vibes) and secondly, kind of an asshole.

blake wheeler was, up until the 2022-23 season, the captain of the jets. they stripped him of the C in the offseason. he was good friends/allies with schiefele. he is apparently at least a democrat though so that's cool. what's uncool is the uh

THE PATRIK LAINE SITUATION

it's 2016. the jets have sucked ass and now have the second overall pick. they pick patrik laine, a winger with a great shot and some serious star potential

laine is a favourite pretty much instantly, scoring 36 goals as an eighteen-year-old rookie and 44 the year after. he's not twenty and arguably one of the best players winnipeg has ever had. quiet, even-keel, fashionable.

there's some contract struggles in there, including a stint where he went to switzerland as an rfa, but he comes back, signs a very short contract, we move.

gets hurt in december, before he comes back from it he's traded to columbus.

a little bit later, rumours come out -- blake wheeler (also a winger) was jealous of his skill, wanted the ice-time and the glory, and mark schiefele, the best centre on the team, wanted to play only with wheeler, not laine. rumours say the two of them bullied him to his face, talked about him behind his back, and the then-coach (paul maurice iirc) just sat there and let it happen (although maurice has stated he regrets not intervening). after this, laine allegedly requests a trade

so yeah

beyond The Patrik Laine Situation there's just rumours of them not liking each other at all; on paper they should be a comfortable away playoffs team, a 3-seed or a comfy wild card, but in practice they're a wild-card team at best -- they were up there in the division for a few months last year, but seriously crashed and burned as soon as january rolls around. there are seemingly yearly soundbites of them going "well, we just don't like each other all that much," and everyone always seems to want out (although that might be winnipeg the city more than winnipeg the team.)

i will leave you with one old alleged anecdote: some reddit guy once went to a party (or a concert? maybe a restaurant or club?) where the jets were, and instead of socializing, talking to each other, they were apparently all just sitting around in silence not really lookin at each other at all

[beardedmrbean]

Hey, I hope your dad doing well

But remember that shitty good times sequel cartoon where the daughter is the black military archetype? Which the proud family revival did

Okay, so people want to know why Huey Freeman worked?

Well Aaron Mcgruder remembers the later half of Malcom X life. So Huey got calmer over the seasons as he realize at the end of the day he just a kid and still have much to learn

Yes yes Malcom believe that Yakub shit

Until he went to Mecca to preach it… and when your seemingly higher than the Hassassins to Muslims…

He got a bitch slap of reality and converted to Sunni Islam

Random, I saw a YouTuber complain how forest grump made fun of the black panthers because they created due to systemic oppression

Just like Khemer rouge with French colonization. Because us black people loved the BP party-

Wait we actually hated them because they were racist af like the kkk? Also they have several domestic abusers in them?

I mean where are they now?…seriously why the kkk still around vs them? Or is blm a new front?

Also I love how they keep saying “they” aka white people out the guns and drugs into our community

It’s the fucking government, they used anything to keep their pets on plantation.

Here a thing I noticing

Black Activists: white people putting the drugs into our communities since the 80’s and killed MLK!

Me: Fascinating, oh should we analyze why our community 75% bastards right after the civil rights movement after primary upper middle boomer feminists projectbcasual sex and other primary upper middle class or elite hendoist behaviors onto the working class?

BA: Nah I like sleeping around

M: Oh that black boys being sexually abused by older girls or women is skyrocketing high

Sorry, yes it effect both genders, but on black twitter, the amount of times black men said they got lucky loosing their “virginity” at fucking 5. It feel like, we need to tell them they were raped

Yes it affects all races, thanks feminism for treating little boys like grown men while female pedos like toddlers.

But if the rampant CSA among black American kids caught wind in mainstream.

The fallout is going to be nasty, sorry just UGH

You guys hate what white people did to us but cling onto the sex revolution like a turkey leg

Hey, I hope your dad doing well

Just got home a little bit ago, he's home and as good as one can be after heart surgery.

But remember that shitty good times sequel cartoon where the daughter is the black military archetype? Which the proud family revival did Okay, so people want to know why Huey Freeman worked?

Huey worked because he called everyone out for their bs, wasn't giving people a pass for their skin colour, at least that's one reason imho.

Asshole but honest iirc.

Well Aaron Mcgruder remembers the later half of Malcom X life. So Huey got calmer over the seasons as he realize at the end of the day he just a kid and still have much to learn Yes yes Malcom believe that Yakub shit

He did chill ya, Wed night we were doing stuff in Genesis at church asked the pastor if Jacob had invented white people by this point in history yet, it got a chuckle, since both Islam and nation of islam have managed to lay claim to some of the Jewish patriarchs, Christians too but we don't claim them or deviate from the Jewish scriptures about them.

Until he went to Mecca to preach it… and when your seemingly higher than the Hassassins to Muslims… He got a bitch slap of reality and converted to Sunni Islam

Ya he managed to be a lot less hateful towards the end, probably why farrakhan (likely) had him assassinated.

Random, I saw a YouTuber complain how forest grump made fun of the black panthers because they created due to systemic oppression

OG BPP did a lot of good, also managed to help get several gun control laws passed in the state of CA because of a wrong turn, Huey Newton and Eldridge Cleavar and a bunch of the rest of them too, were well versed in gun laws at the time and followed them to the letter.

At that point in CA you could observe law enforcement in their actions, from a reasonable distance, 8-10 feet or so, with a shotgun sitting on your shoulder, legally.

Managed to keep some "roughhousing" we'll call it, from the cops happening, as well as making sure they followed the law, they were the cellphone cameras of their time, but far more intimidating.

(When you hear people say that gun laws have racism at their core, this is one of the reasons people say that)

But they had food banks and neighborhood programs to keep kids out of trouble and they did a lot of good, some bad too, but ya they were those uppity N* that wound up being part of the reason the FBI flooded the streets with crack.

You want to see something crazy though, you can learn what the "establishment" actually fears and why they've decided to let racism come back the way they have.

This is Chicago history here, that they likely left out of the books (Article Link here) This is what they fear, Hillbilly Harlem boys can do this, we might get some class solidarity and leave race behind us.

If you look at the timing of everything, what was just before the current wave of new racism was the occupy movement, and they did the whole thing again with that.

Got the NBBP now, they don't go for class solidarity anymore.

I do love to see Americans exercising their 2A rights though, may not like your politics but I support your right to self defense anyhow.

Good back and forth there

Sorry, yes it effect both genders, but on black twitter, the amount of times black men said they got lucky loosing their “virginity” at fucking 5. It feel like, we need to tell them they were raped

That is one of the things they don't really talk about and I don't recall how I managed to get read in to the big secret about everyone's favourite auntie in the neighborhood.

They ain't making a man out of you, like you said it's rape.

Yes it affects all races, thanks feminism for treating little boys like grown men while female pedos like toddlers. But if the rampant CSA among black American kids caught wind in mainstream. The fallout is going to be nasty, sorry just UGH

I feel like it's eeked out here and there, but someone big needs to do a thing about it, bigger than when L&O SVU had Ice-T throw the whole "on the down low" thing out there.

Which that's only gonna be a scandal in the black community, pointing out that there's a designated first lay for the boys in the neighborhood that parents send their kid to, well those that aren't aware of it might make enough noise to do something.

That or get called racist for calling it out for what it is.

You're one of the first people I've seen on here not speak about that in code and whispers.

You guys hate what white people did to us but cling onto the sex revolution like a turkey leg

It's weird the feminists scream about patriarchy and all that stuff but turn a blind eye to child rape that's got the express purpose of "making a man" out of the child that should be allowed to remain a child.

Probably to avoid being called racist, you see how they fail to address child marriage and such in developing countries in favor of things like sexist air conditioning here in the US

It's set that cold because men are expected to wear a suit coat and tie at work, you can wear a sweater they can't remove any more layers of clothing, if anything it's the dress code that's sexist but then you'd need to admit that sexism against men is possible.

Sorry that one has driven me crazy for nearly a decade.

I did say we got my dad home and he's catching up on his papers and all I think, if not he is and that's why this has taken 22 hours to get out, not enough time last night and busy all day.

Hopefully it was worth the wait

[hematomes]

Am I the only one who finds the backstories of assholes or villains incredibly disappointing, boring, and unimaginative sometimes? If it's not "my mom/dad never loved me" then it's "my (insert loved one) died". Every time I see some dickhead try to justify or rationalize their shitty actions by bringing up their past, I roll my eyes and/or shake my head.

Now listen, and please don't take this the wrong way, while these backstories are tragic and these things should not have happened to them-or anyone for that matter-, I feel little sympathy for them. Not because of what they've been through, but more so on how they expect us to feel about them and their actions. Do I think they had a bad life? Yes. Am I going to just let them get away with their actions? No. Never.

i think it depends on the execution, and the specifics

what you described are tropes, not specific situations, so they do feel overused if there's nothing that spices up their backstory! for example, let's take scaramouche as a villain (and disregard his redemption arc for a sec). the way they portrayed his backstory was interesting: they took their sweet sweet time, especially if you missed the events (then you mostly had.... some people's voicelines and the HoOD + pale flame sets), and then proceeded to hit us with it from scaramouche's pov

his motives are "clichés" in a way: he wants the gnosis that was taken from him and left him empty, and most of all he wants to achieve greatness without his mother's approval (reverse nepotism 😔😔 /j), probably above said mother. it comes from abandonment, resentment and a shitload of mommy issues: perhaps overused

but in the context of genshin impact, it works. in the way they present it, it works. yeah some people think he's overreacting, and i don't doubt that his backstory seems bad for them (iirc he's like one of the most hated character in the game lmao), but it goes beyond the cliché of "i was abandoned and now i need to kill everyone but especially the cunt that gave me up" and he goes through sm abuse from the moment he's abandoned up to the one he deletes himself from the tree that it makes him more human, almost relatable in a way

in the other hand, however, i personally feel like the "pure evil" type of villain can also be interesting, so let's take dottore. fundamentally his only motive is scientific, but also resentment bc the way he functions makes him see morality as an accessory, so he experiments on people without a sliver of shame, kills god knows how many of them and feels no remorse whatsoever. cliché antagonist who's really just like "boo im evil, die bitch", but it also works cuz most of the time in genshin they try to justify evil deeds (signora going mad after losing her lover - cliché but it's signora so if you say smth negative abt her im blocking on sight #feminism -, childe who's just traumatized and actually a pretty chill guy), but dottore? nah. i feel like gold also fits in the same category, which makes me wonder whether dottore will one day find a way to use abyssal magic but that's yet another topic

ANYWAY i see what you mean but i don't necessarily agree - writing good villains without tapping too much into clichés is hard but doable. then again, you also need to take into account that not all antagonists are meant to be sympathized with, it's even kind of the opposite imo? but idk

im also heavily biased when it comes to the examples i cited, but it was mostly bc, well, genshin blog yada yada. then again im also kind of an apologist in a lot of cases, like for example once the house of the dragon s2 is out you best believe ill stand behind every decision miss girl rhaenyra the rightful heir will make ♡

[sineala]

Thoughts on Steve thinking Tony is dating a different member of the Illuminati because he catches them sneaking off or whispering to each other at functions

Okay, so, you know what's great about this? There's really only one person on the Illuminati -- original-flavor Illuminati, after they form up and T'Challa bows out, I mean -- that Steve's going to think Tony might be dating.

Four of the six original Illuminati are married. There's Reed and Sue. There's Strange and Clea. There's Black Bolt and Medusa. There's Xavier and -- oh, man, what's her name, the Shi'ar empress? Lilandra. (I mean, yes, fandom, we all know it's Magneto, but you know what I mean.)

Steve is probably not gonna think any of these dudes are cheating on their wives; the only one of them who I know for a fact was actually sleeping with other women while married is Strange, and IIRC that was pretty late in canon, and they're (mostly) back together now. (Setting aside the fact that Strange is still dead, which of course is a bit of a problem.)

So who's the only other (mostly) unmarried guy on the Illuminati? The one who said they couldn't tell their wives, because he knew everyone else had wives? (And, yes, let's consider the fact that the person Tony ended up bringing in on this was Steve, because for some reason Marvel likes paralleling their relationship with people who are definitely actually married to each other.)

Yeah. It's Namor.

(Yes, I know Namor was actually married to Marrina but this is one of those very Comics situations where she spends a lot of time being evil and/or dead, as far as I know, and also Namor has that... thing... for Sue continuously going on so I feel like Steve would think Namor could still be a possibility.)

And this is even more hilarious because Steve is, like, one of the few people on Earth-616 who actually likes Namor. Everyone else thinks Namor is an asshole! But Steve is like, hey, it's my good buddy and World War II comrade! So Steve's gonna be sitting there gritting his teeth and trying not to hate Namor but being furious that Namor is not respecting, like, his WWII bro code.

And the other thing about Namor is that Tony and Namor have a terrible relationship while being on the Illuminati together. Like, here's a page of Namor and Tony getting into a fight (in the New Avengers: Illuminati one-shot) and Namor 100% actually trying to drown Tony:

You might argue that Tony is not in any real danger here because Strange breaks the fight up and saves Tony but this, uh, could have gone very badly if Strange had not.

But, given the general caliber of people Tony dates, Steve is not going to find it reassuring if Tony uses that as evidence for why he can't be dating Namor.

STEVE: Are you dating Namor? TONY: What? Why would I date Namor? He's literally tried to kill me. STEVE: I'm not hearing a no.

Like, "literally tried to kill him" describes a very large number of people Tony has dated, sometimes while he is actually dating them. We all know Tony would not think of this as a dealbreaker. And Steve would know that. Steve would be like "Come on, Tony, this is the part where you tell me he didn't actually kill you so that means it's fine."

So even if Tony vehemently denies it, Steve could probably still think they're dating and there's no way Tony would be able to convince him otherwise, which would be either great or terrible depending on your perspective.

[namorthesubmariner]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for that very informative post about Namor's biracial native roots. After reading more and more I can only say Ryan Coogler is a damn GENIUS. Casting someone as talented as Tenoch, having a mesoamerican background instead of Atlantis, AND using colonialism (if the leaks/spoilers are true) as a parallel to the white men that invaded Atlantis and killed Atlanteans in Namor's earlier comics is such a smart move. I realized that both versions, as far as we know, mirror each other in that aspect. AND it truly sets Namor apart from DCEU's Aquaman, which is interesting since Momoa is not even a white guy either (but there wasn't backlash with him, was there? I don't remember). Man, they truly made such a rich culture with Talokan that I can't even believe the assholes saying they ruined Namor when in fact this adaptation couldn't be more perfect. As a Latin American, and as a new fan of comics!Namor and MCU!Namor, I love and support this.

You're welcome! I'm glad my meta was helpful. I agree, the direction Coogler has gone with is an amazing idea and I'm very excited to see the movie! I'm very glad Coogler is handling Namor because you can't have Namor without his roots, and a lot of that is very political, dealing with outsiders/invasion/the devastation of their homeland and people. Which is why all these people online crying #namormynamor are very annoying because Namor isn't some white guy in a speedo swimming around talking to fish. I really dislike when people erase the fact that Namor has always been a white passing biracial coded character, but I also understand no one does extensive reading into older comics and it's not mentioned throughout later comics so the only time it really annoys me is when people try to argue against it with the limited knowledge they have.

Iirc there were some people going "that's not aquaman!" but it's the same kinda people who argue against Namor now, but for the most part I never saw extreme dislike of Aquamomoa because, let's just be honest, Aquaman was always considered a "lame" character. He was the butt of so many jokes over the decades, so when they made him BADASS suddenly people were more on board with this. The weirdest thing is they literally changed Aquaman to be more like Namor. (I talk more about Aquaman and Namor here)

Aside from the fact Aquaman is DC's copycat of Namor and they took alot of stuff from Namor over the years, then they went and took even more for the movie version, giving him bullet proof skin (like Namor), the whole biracial aspect of Namor being non white, even the imagery is really close to his Savage Sub-Mariner run. Yet people were totally fine with a white character being played by a non white actor because it "made him better and cooler" but they want to hate Namor for being non-white and woke because Namor is dealing with not so pleasant issues when that's his literal origin.

I honestly don't care what other fans think, just a few months ago those people weren't even talking about Namor so alot of this is just people jumping on the hate bandwagon, and while I have my criticism of the mcu as a whole, I also think alot of these people are just hating to hate, they don't care about the character, they are just upset it's not being catered to their white male power fantasy self insert fanon. There is alot of bad fanon that surrounds Namor's character but the actual character is so layered and interesting and complex.

I'm so excited to learn about Talokan, and the inspiration from Mesoamerica it takes, I'm working on a master post for all this information so far but I have to mention that I love that the cast came up with a hand symbol that has meaning with their culture

The ¡Líik’ik Talokan! hand gesture is based on ones seen in many Mesoamerican codices. Here's my comparison between a detail from the Codex Nuttall and #Namor Thanks

I couldn't insert the video here but check out the cast talking about it! Talokan Rises! (¡Líik’ik Talokan! means Talokan Rises!)

Also another detail; The conch shell Namor carries! Here & Here!

I just so happy about everything they have done with Namor and his world and I'm excited that now we have two versions but ultimately I feel the same core of the character/his story is intact.

MCU!Namor & Comic!Namor are perfectly wonderful!

Art by Yamrotti on instagram!

[pieofdeath]

god. pacing. this is ROTD spiff so badly its INCREDIBLE.

so like. i DID intend ROTD spiff to be an asshole!! lord barkis is SUCH an asshole in the movie! he's visibly older than victoria by a good bit. he flirts with her in a way that just feels. sooo gross. there's a scene in the movie that I didn't adapt to the fic because I didn't want ANOTHER pov change where Lord Barkis (IIRC) talks to a portrait of Victoria and says something along the lines of how she wont have to suffer this union for very long. BRO. YOU'RE IN THEIR DAMN HOUSE STILL. I intended ROTD spiff to be similar! just rude and an asshole and unrepentant about his crimes!

and then he just. wasn't. and it's mostly my own fault jakdfjs.

My first mistake was that I made Spiff too young. I made him too close to my age, which made me keep thinking about how I would've felt- I'm turning 20 in march, and I made him 20 in Jan of 1877, which makes him 17 in 1874 when he murders Dan.

My second, and primary, mistake is that I thought about him for too long. When writing the final chapter, I went. huh. Spiff is 20 here, a few years younger than Kevin and Seán (who are 21 and 22-almost-23 in Jan 1877 respectively). and he killed a guy at 17. That's gotta fuck a guy up.

and then i couldnt stop thinking about it. ok. abstracted, we have a guy that has killed a guy and planned to kill another and is still literally only 20. age is not an excuse for Actual Premeditated Murder but you can't tell me that it didn't fuck him up, at least a little. and add that on top of the possibility that he killed the only person who genuinely, really cared about him. how long do you think he deliberated on if he was going to go through with his plan. do you think there was a span of time where he truly let himself love dan. do you think answering "yes" or "no" to those questions makes it worse?

i reblogged this post into the rotd tag back in April. i think that's a good summary of ROTD spiff. a guy who was unloved (woa what who said that) and couldn't handle being loved and made the worst mistake of his life. and proceeded to keep making it because then he could pretend he meant it. spiff can be summed up by "hubris and hates it" i think.

there's a lot of similarities between spiff and jim I think. interpret that as you will. there's actually a really rough idea for an alternative universe where everything turns out fine because jim or grim or someone finds out about spiff's plan to kill Seán before he goes through with it. jim and spiff are murder buddies and rtspiff reconcile- the trio shifts into a strange little polycule in that verse.

and while writing the finale I started toying around with the idea of writing his perspective, and then i listened to a few songs that gave me a few ideas for future events and it was all over. He hasn't left my head. I'm thinking about him ALL THE TIME. I'm only barely exaggerating.

hes a squeaky toy to me. im chewing on him. I'm making him cry. I'm making it better but I'm making him cry.

woa hold on i just rambled a LOT I'm so sorry aksjdfksa I need to go listen to his playlist maybe then ill feel better

[brydeswhale]

The thing about sterek is that even tho, as I said, the show ITSELF didn’t lean on the ship, enough ppl inside and outside of fandom did use it for attention that the perception of teen wolf often was sterek.

From the idea of sterek as an actual ship on the show(more than one person in my circle expressed surprise when they started watching at how LITTLE Stiles and Derek actually interacted) to the idea that sterek would be canon if only Davis and co would stop being so cowardly.

(Denial runs deep in these ppl bc even in the godless tens and on cable, no one was going to actually make a pairing between an obnoxious teen and the man who, I will repeat this, assaulted him on more than one occasion, canon. It was never going to happen.)

It took Tyler Hoechlin leaving the show IIRC for the sterek fervour to die down.

And even then, the sterek contingency just shoved the supposed chemistry onto other white characters in Stiles’ vicinity, eg Peter(yikes), the villain of the month, or Lydia(I mean, at least they’re the same age, even if Stiles repeatedly fuckzoned her.).

Which honestly just proved what a lot of non/anti-sterek ppl had already been saying, which was that it wasn’t really about sterek. In fact it wasn’t even about Derek.

(Which had already BEEN evidenced by how sterek and stiles fans had taken Derek’s character development(he became less of an asshole) and canon love interests. They were particularly vitriolic towards Braeden, his second love interest, who happened to also be Black. Predictably.)

It was about what Stiles represented. The white lead they never got.

You might hear that TW was an ensemble show, or that it had an “unreliable narrator”(this was from one of the most racist anti-Scott ppl in fandom), but the reality was that the titular Teen Wolf of the show, Scott McCall, was the lead.

And the majority of the Stiles’ fandom couldn’t and can’t STAND this.

They absolutely writhed in agonies of racism over it, and spread their misery everywhere they could.

From harassment over anon, to fic after fic bashing Scott, to poorly researched, bad faith meta, gifs, and fan art, a highly vocal section of fandom(still active to this day) set out to do battle against the very show it claimed to be a fan of.

And this harassment didn’t stop at other fans. The actors were also targeted, to the point where Crystal Reed cited her treatment by fans as part of her incentive to exit the show.

Tyler Posey, who played Scott, was done much worse, as continues to this day. This has included ppl accusing him, a queer dude, of queer baiting, and someone who basically urged him to commit suicide when he opened up about his mental health issues post his mom’s death.

Of course, you’ll see many sterek/stiles’ fans talking about how these egregious occurrences are the work of a few “bad apples”, and “real” fans don’t do that.

Which would be easier to believe if they actually spoke out against these actions, against the racist tropes so often used in their fic and art, if they pointed out how the supposed “meta” produced by their number contains both bad takes and outright falsehoods, but, well.

They don’t.

In fact, they usually go out of their way to DENY that these ppl even exist. They say that Scott and Tyler Posey fans are the ones committing the harassment, that the call is coming from inside the house, and then they actually straight up lie about the rest of fandom.

So honestly, if any of them did speak up, we all know that the rest of them would turn on that person like the pack of starving hamsters they are.

Basically, sterek and stiles fans were not fans of the show. They were Ppl who put their fetishistic adoration of white male centred slash above the actual media they were supposedly consuming. I’m not saying that Teen Wolf was perfect. It sure as hell wasn’t. I’ve commented before on the bigoted tropes the show used and the cultural appropriation that basically made NO SENSE.

But at its heart, as explored thru Scott, it was a show about essentially rejecting the toxic masculinity pervasive in the urban fantasy/horror genre it took its inspiration from. Scott grows over the course of the show from a frightened teenager to a courageous leader, from someone willing to kill if that’s what it takes, to someone who kills as a last resort only, who relies on intelligence and diplomacy to get the job done.

He becomes someone who rejects the violence in the world he’s brutally forced to enter in favour of kindness and hope, even when things seem at their worst. A strong Latino(and yes, despite sterek denials, Scott is Latino) lead embodying the best his world had to offer, a new way forward that even the old guard and his worst enemies admired.

But when there are two white guys who exist within the same square mile on a tv show, who cares about that, amiright?

Bonus

https://twitter.com/cetotherium/status/1418570345007755267?s=21

And that was a big draw for a lot of ppl. When most urban fantasy was about EMBRACING toxic masculinity, Teen Wolf asked the Uber macho, might makes right, violently abusive Hunter/supernatural communities, “What the heck, man, are you alright?”

And Sterek fans HATED that, 😂. Their idea of a good urban fantasy horror show is one where the vicious but oh so cute white protagonist is over powered by the commanding, controlling, abusive alpha werewolf.

It would not surprise me at all if most of them were Anita Blake fans. Between the racism and the outright rejection of the core message of the show, they seem to have been saturated in LKH’s weird, bigoted nonsense.

[relaxxattack]

seeing you talk about dbh and its fandom is funny like.. yep! cool game! i only know the stuff that happened in this one specific playthrough!

haha

the only things the fandom was big on that you wouldn’t already know about is probably gavin reed, RK900, and kamski

context:

- gavin reed is that asshole detective guy who attacks connor at the end. tubbo didn’t talk to him that much, but it’s possible to interact more with him, revealing basically that he really hates andriods

- kamski and gavin are actually played by the same guy so a popular fan headcanon was that they’re brothers or half-brothers. 

- RK900. he only shows up in the very worst ending, but he is, essentially, the android amanda planned to replace connor with. he’s been named “richard” by bryan dechart (connor) iirc, and according to the fandom and bryan he’s different from connor in that he’s extremely cold and standoffish. would likely pour salt in your coffee

- therefore 90% of the fandom’s favorite ship was reed900, two attractive male characters who were both assholes and would absolutely have an incredibly slow burning enemies-to-lovers dynamic. the fandom ate that shit up despite it not even being remotely hinted at in canon

- RK900 or “richard”’s personality and name would change depending on who wrote him, seeing as he didn’t have either in canon (lol). he looks just like connor except he wears all white and has RK900 on his jacket instead of RK800. he’s usually drawn as taller too

- a very large amount of the fandom fucking hated north and shipped markus and simon. another part of the fandom said it was kind of unfair/sexist/fetishization for people to do this. i did not care enough about markus to care

im also not kidding about how popular reed900 was. like if you check the dbh tag on ao3 it’s almost all reed900

[musclesandhammering]

I’m so nervous about this op because you seem like a Dean fan (no shade at all!!) but.. *cracks knuckles*

Dean is honest to god the most insufferable asshole of a man on any tv show. In real life, he’d be the 40 year old douche sitting at the end of the bar hitting on 19 year old girls until they got uncomfortable and then he’d physically attack their boyfriends when they tell him to lay off, end up getting kicked out of the bar (while everyone cheers) and then harass everyone in town with the story of how the local bar has gone woke and discriminates against “real men”. I’m serious. If Dean’s got 1 hater, it’s me. If he’s got no haters, I’m dead.

He consistently is just mean and nasty and aggressive toward everyone in his life- especially people he cares about- even in relatively laid back moments. He has the attitude of someone who thinks everyone around him is just incompetent and he’s so sick of dealing with them (Sam and Cas in particular).

He despises any and all supernatural beings. Even the ones who haven’t done anything wrong. Like he’s just disgusted with anything that isn’t human. Like.. to the point that it really really feels irl white supremacy-coded. Anything inhuman should be exterminated.

He had a shitty childhood but he consciously chooses to make his Man Angst everyone else’s problem. He fully embraces the self pity and believes everyone in the world owes him because of how bad of a hand he was dealt.

He’s cold toward his friends- especially castiel. During the whole Jack dying situation and other situations, he purposefully said and did things that rubbed Jack’s death in his face knowing it would hurt him just cause he was feeling pissy. He goes out of his way to let cas know he doesn’t care about his feelings. He’s treated cas like an incompetent baby since they first met (baby in a trenchcoat) knowing full well it hurt his feelings. He blamed Sam for trying to live a normal life instead of looking for him when he was in purgatory even though he himself tried to live a normal life instead of getting Sam out of the cage like a year before.

He pervs on high school girls, he slut shames homicide victims, he objectifies every woman he meets, he loves racist porn, his go-to insults for any woman he doesn’t like is sexist shit (bitch, slut, whore, cunt), he’s the type of uber macho dudebro that no one likes, and iirc there’ve been times where he basically no-homo-ed other guys.

He treated jack- an actual child- like absolute shit the entire time they knew him (to the point where Jack tried to kill himself) and then had the audacity to turn around and say he was like a son to him after he was gone.

From a doylist perspective, he’s the writers’ favorite and they’ve written the whole universe to revolve around him, and from a watsonian perspective, he knows the universe revolves around him and fully believes he’s the most important person in the room at any given time.

I used to write long detailed metas with specific examples of all this but I haven’t watched the show in several years and don’t plan to because I don’t need the stress, so I apologise if all this is vague.

I hate him so fucking much. …Respectfully. (😂)

is there any people who hate dean or sam that can tell me why without comparing the two. like every anti-dean (or sam) post is like

“dEan hAs dOnE _____ And sAm WouLd nEvEr dO tHaT”

like let’s see some real hate!! tell me you hate dean or sam because they suck even out of relation to other each other!!!!

[kanohivolitakk]

Have you done Krekka for the ask game? I know you're a huge Nidhiki fan, curious if you have any thoughts on his partner?

I haven't gotten Krekka yet actually. So far I only done Toa Ignika and Axonn for the Bionicle ask game (which Im still accepting). That being said great choice. Krekka isn't necessarily a big favorite of mine (partially because I'm not that fond of the "dumb brute" archetype barring a few exceptions), but I have to admit I do have a soft spot for the big guy. Krekka is a relatively simple character when it comes to characterization/backstory/role in the story (especially when compared to Nidhiki), but that doesn't mean I don't have any "deeper" thoughts regarding him or that there isnt stuff worth discussing.

Anyways some thoughts/headcanons/general musings:

This is a weird thing to start with but... Krekka is kinda adorable for me. I think its kinda this ...overgrown puppy (bulldog??) vibe due to his loyalty and dumbness. I admit BOADH is a big reason for me feeling this way since it gave him a few moments that made me go "AWWW he's so cute". Just..love his loyalty so much.

His undying loyalty makes him stand out for me across the other dark hunters. While many dark hunters we ha e are opportunistic and schemy, Krekka is just...very loyal. Maybe too much so. But I love that he is loyal. Feels refreshing tbh.

And now I cant help but feel that TSO is just "guys stupid but at least he wont double cross me and is easy to keep in check" when it comes to him.

Not to go woobifying villains but I genuinely dont think the guys that bad. Hes just really stupid, overly loyal and doing his job. Its kinda like w Lariska being a decent person despite being a knife happy murder girl although to a much lesser extent since guys a literalminded fool and also just smashy boy.

I do like his backstory of being a former guard who lost his job and started wreck havoc until one day a dark hunter found and hired him. It isnt anything too complex but it works well for his character and explains why he is so loyal to Dark Hunters. It also helps bringing a bit more light to his homeland and I love when we get more info of places through character backstories, makes the world feel more real that way.

Also can Gorast please stop hurting charaxters I like. This is the reason shes my least favorite character in the 2001-2008 storyline that isnt just a glorified extra or a plot device.

When it comes to Krekka, one scene I always think of when I think of him is in BOADH where he temporarily forgot to fly and Nidhiki was just "WAIT A MOMENT LARISKA TOLD ME YOU CAN FLY????" and Krekka just goes "whoops I forgot". That was adorable honestly. You dumb idiot, forgot you could fly.

Also, I know he's kinda "the idiot character", and while I am NOT saying he isn't, I do think its worth pointing out that he's basically literal minded. In BOADH (again) when Nidhiki tried to do that training scenario Krekka basically was like "wait I’m here, there’s nothing there why should I move there". This is

Another thing I really like about Krekka is that how, despite being an absolute idiot and tool, he still is willing to sometimes not take Nidhikis bullshit, see preventing him from getting the Zamor launchers (geez BOADH did a lot for this guys characterization lmao)

I sometimes call him truck boy because his name is one letter off my languages word for truck.

Also unless canon/word of Greg says otherwise I don't think every member of his species is as stupid as him. Like possibly on similar level but still.

It is made pretty clear that Nidhiki couldn't stand Krekka at all, but I do genuinely wonder how Krekka feels about Nidhiki. Based on the little we have I'd say he liked him to some extent or at the very least, didn't hate him to the same degree. I also have to wonder how aware he was about Nidhikis haterd towards him.

I also love the idea that when Nidhiki was mutated, Krekka just...wasnt afraid of him at slightest, no fear in this dumb boy. (I also like the idea he didnt recognize him at first and Nidhiki just, had to explain to his thick skull who he was. It took a while but eventually he got it.)

On a related note, I find it interesting how the LOMN website describes him working with Nidhiki because guy knows where to get the good jobs or something rather than being his goverment (read TSO) assigned partner The way the twos relationship were described makes it feel that by this point the staff hadnt figured out what they wanted to do with Dark Hunters , or if it even was an organization or just these two tools.

Its really interesting for me how Krekkas characterization not only varies between the books/comics (where hes more intimidating and him being a simpleton isnt as pronounced) and the movie (where hes more of a dumbass) but also how his characterization evolved. Like, his loyalty wasn't that pronounced trait but now I feel its just as important part of him as him being a dumbass (which is to say, very interesting)

I remember how the aftoermentoined Metru Nui movie website described that Krekka hated toa to the point wouldve hunted them for free if Nidhiki didnt make sure the two would get paid. I feel this is somewhat early installment weirdness as it isnt mentioned anywhere else but at the same time Krekka being willing to fight without payment sounds 1000% in character if you ask me

Something I have been confused over: when exactly was Krekka recruited to the dark hunters??? The timeline is very vague about this and I wish we knew.

It's been AGES since I watched my home countrys dub of LOMN but what I recall I really liked Krekka's voice in that dub. He sounded more badass and I loved it, the VA had a pretty unique sound. Sadly dont think there is any clips of the LOMN dub, which is a shame. UPDATE: I rewatched the dub and I love the voice itself but felt the voice direction made him sound kinda inconsistent

This is more a "Nidhiki and Krekka related thought" rather than just Krekka related but one thing I really like about Krekka and Nidhiki is that how they are like a more serious and competent take of "those two evil henchmen with contrasting personalities" trope. Often these types of villains are rather goofy, but these two could be rather dangerous as well and I really like that. I also like their dynamic of just doing Nidhiki being done with Krekkas bullshit. One of the main reasons I wish LOMN was a miniseries rather than a movie is because I really wanted more screentime with the two.

On a related note can I JUST SAY I LOVE the way the two compliment/pararell each other. From design (Krekka being bulky mostly blue colored, Nidhiki being slender and monstrous, mostly green colored) to personality (Krekka being foolish and simpleminded but loyal Nidhiki being cunning and ambitious but treacherous) to powersets (Krekka being strong physical attacker, Nidhiki being weaker(??) but faster and more special attacker).Heck, even their backstories have similarities as they both lost their orginal purpose in one way or another and didnt have anywhere to go but Dark Hunters (the main difference being that Nidhiki inflicted his fate upon himself by betraying the toa while Krekka didnt really do anything iirc)

Now for something crossovery, Krekkas and Nidhikis dynamic reminds me a lot of Kronk and Yzma from Emperors New Groove. Yes I have drawn a parody of the "pull the lever kronk" meme, yes I intend to make more screencap redraws. They also remind me a lot of Mummymon and Archenemon from Digimon 02, partially due to the dynamic (smug spider that tries to be cunning and intimidating but gets outclassed by most other villains in that + loyal blue dumb boy) partially due to their ultimate fate being rather similar.

I don't know how familiar you are with the franchise, but Krekka reminds me a fair bit of Gamel, one of the four villain generals in Kamen Rider OOOs, mainly because "the dumb brute major villain that's kinda cuteish and loyal a f while everyone else is an asshole".

I remember reading a p good oneshot fic that was just him accidentally killing a civilian when all he wanted was a hug and...honestly that is p much what I imagine him being like. Guy may be strong, reckless and a fool but like I said I dont think hes all that bad and just a puppy. An overgrown, moronic puppy but a puppy nontheless

For AUs, I remember I have thought once of "What if Krekka survived but Nidhiki died" and just ...guy wouldve been very lost and confused and unsure what to do tbh. He would most likely returned to Dark Hunters but Mata Nui knows how say TSO wouldve felt about that. Its not too complex au yet but I am thinking of developing it further one day.

Thank you for asking.

Sorry this took longer than expected. I had too many thoughts and half of them were deleted so. I hope its worth the wait tho. I do have a lot of Krekka thoughts and tbh wasnt sure if I was even able to get them all here.

(I am still doing the ask game so if anyone wants to send me a bonkle I will try to give thoughts, meta and headcanons on them)

[generallyunskilled]

Why I sympathize with or apologize for these Dream SMP characters

Since I’m very unwell and watch just about every perspective on the Dream SMP, I’m a sympathizer or apologist for just about every character. I figured I’d share my thoughts on that. This is probably gonna be long.

Before I get started, here’s who I’m not a sympathizer or apologist for

c!Dream: fuck this guy. You’re not supposed to sympathize with him. He’s just all around evil, man. He’s an abuser, manipulator and he preys on those weaker than him. I still enjoy his character however, he’s just so delightfully hateable and I love when villains are hateable.

c!Sam: I get Sam. I really do. I understand where he’s coming from. But good god, it’s just not working! His little system keeps fucking up and he doesn’t really seem to get that it’s the system itself and not the people fucking it up. He’s too damn lawful for his own good. The prison is eating at him and you can see how he’s becoming more and more a bastardized version of the man he used to be. I want to be able to sympathize with him, and I’m not going to excuse the shitty things he’s done, but I understand him. As he is right now he’s gone off the deep end and doesn’t even know it yet. However I do think he can change. There’s still a chance for it.

Any other character not listed I simply just do not have an opinion on them. Maybe I don’t watch them often, there’s just not much to their character, or they simply haven’t done much for them to need apologists or sympathizers.

Now onto the list

c!Tommy: this kid has been through so much and received so little support. Like yeah, he’s done some wrong things, but he’s been so disproportionately punished for them. Like almost everyone else does the things he does without any repercussions. He’s also stopped doing most of the things people had issues with, or is at least trying. I feel like people don’t realize half the reason Tommy did any of his ‘bad’ things is he’s simply never been taught better. Everyone wants him to learn his lesson but never actually teach him anything but violence and pain. Also, half the things the fandom calls him an asshole for are literally mental illness symptoms. Stop that. Kids got some things messed up in his head. I’m not one to diagnose but he gets pretty damn close to the criteria for C-PTSD. You know, from the near constant trauma in his life. Kid needs a break. And a doctor.

c!Techno: I’m really flip floppy with him. His motives are understandable but his morals are wack as hell. I get wanting something against people who’ve wronged you. I get disliking government. What I don’t get, is the absolute disproportionate retribution he delivers. I also don’t get his moral high ground. He has his reasons for distrusting government. He has his reasons for disliking L’Manburg (o7). And I think it’s perfectly valid to want to air his grievances. He’s got a very admirable combination of “do unto others” and “an eye for an eye”. Mans just bungles the execution of these ideas. He’s got a lot of problems, but however, I feel like he’s got something coming to him. cc!Techno’s a better writer than this. And now with it seeming like a lot of miscommunication is getting cleared up, some of Technos past transgressions might come back to him. I think he’s headed in an interesting direction.

c!Phil: a lot of what I said for Techno applies to him as well. In addition, we know he also blames the government for his son’s spiral and death. It makes sense based on what he knows. I had something completely different here in the drafts but now we know that Wilbur didn’t tell him the truth about what happened in Manburg-Pogtopia era of the SMP. He’s been completely misinformed and you can TELL this has shaken his world up. He’s gaining a lot of new knowledge really fast. It’s becoming clear that maybe he’s beginning to regret some of what he’s done. But beyond the misinformation, he also just never got much time to actually grieve for his son and heal before the plot moved on. I feel like Phil is one of those guys who sorta just stuffs all his emotions away, but now it’s getting to be too much. He has a lot of hidden depth and I think he’s definitely on the way to a different role than what he’s played.

c!Wilbur: before his death, Wilbur needed help. No one realized anything was wrong until it was too late to pull him out of his spiral. We now know he started falling after Eret’s betrayal. He was paranoid and growing to hate what he had created. It seems like Eret was the catalyst, but the election was the straw that broke the camels back. Everyone just kind of sat around and hoped he’d change his mind. The only one willing to try was Tommy, and Tommy was just a kid. Something could have been done for him. He wasn’t a villain. He was just someone who went down a dark path that could have been pulled away if someone who wasn’t a 16 year old boy tried to reach out to him. Post-resurrection, he seems to be happy to be alive again. I’m not saying he’s completely out of the spiral but clearly something changed in limbo. And yeah him saying Dream is his hero is hella sketch but I mean, he doesn’t have the full story yet. I need to see more of revivedbur to make an opinion on him entirely.

c!Tubbo: this kid has had so little agency for so much of the plot. Most of the bad things he’s done were under duress or because he was practically being used. He really was a pawn in other peoples games, unfortunately. Any action of his that wasn’t like this was something he did out of pure reaction. He’s a very reactionary guy. He doesn’t start shit but he’ll try to finish it if he can. Tubbo is mostly just trying to get by. He’s been a soldier, a spy, a president and whatever else he needed to be or what others needed him to be. His time as president had him being pushed around and put under pressure he should never been put under. He was backed into corner after corner and expected to make the right decision with different people telling him what that was. Now he’s just trying to have some peace for himself and his family. He made the nukes for defense and defense only. It’s extreme but he’s been taught that extremism is the only thing that works.

c!Ranboo: dude literally doesn’t know what, when, or how he did any of the bad things he did. He’s not himself for most of the wrongdoings he’s done. Hell, we don’t even know if he actually did do some of the things or if it’s Dream manipulating him. Dream is literally taking advantage of Ranboo having the Enderwalk state. This makes him one of the most dangerous people on the server as Dream puppet, but also one of the most victimized. Now this doesn’t absolve him completely because harm was still done but it’s a reasonable cause behind his actions. Like I mentioned he’s also a victim of Dream in this way. Even he’s scared of what could happen and the possibility that he could be a danger to the people he loves. Granted his moral code used to be pretty wack but he’s getting better at that. I really like his “choose people” stance bc at first it was just him making his own side but now he’s genuinely picking and choosing people and being with them because he likes them as people rather than their stance on things. He and Tubbo were already friends before they got married, he’s not an official part of Snowchester though, iirc, and the only reason he joined The Syndicate was to make sure they don’t go after Tubbo.

c!Fundy, c!Niki, and c!Jack all go in the “seek some healthy coping mechanisms for the love of god” pile. Niki has already started on this as she’s baking again. c!Fundy honestly hasn’t done much wrong afaik, but he still needs to go to therapy that poor fox boy has so much daddy issues and sadness. c!Jack literally just needs to work through his issues with Tommy bc dude only knows murder as an answer to his problems. There’s other ones and he should learn them. These three are just traumatized and don’t know what to do with themselves.

[brave-clarice]

“Clarice” Liveblog: Episode 3

Maybe Wednesday is just destined to be my watch night? At any rate, here are some more comically late hot takes for you all.

I really do not like that Clarice’s Bureau-mandated therapist is recurring character, nor do I like the way these scenes are framed.

And the name of this episode is “Are You Alright?” which...oop.

“He was a marshal.” Good to know that the sheriff BS she gave Mr. Cult Leader was made up after all.

This is a little thing, but enough with the boring monochromatic button-ups on Clarice! Where’s my girl who hides copies of Vogue under her mattress??

I don’t love this constant-flashback thing one bit.

To be 100% clear, if I haven’t been already, it’s not that I want Clarice’s mental health to be ignored. I just don’t think this is the best or most in-character way to address it.

Also: Clarice Starling is not defined by her trauma.

“Buffalo Bill...a wound I believe will never heal unless you open up about it.” Honestly?

Thanks, I hate it!

I hate to even bring up the NBC show.....but this scene is reminding me, intensely and unpleasantly, of that.

That show made Will Graham way too unstable and mentally ill as it is...and Clarice’s character is a hell of a lot stronger than book!Will, never mind NBC!Will. So having Clarice hallucinate and lash out in similar ways feels really OOC.

“Maybe your perceptions aren’t as solid as you think.” Yay, gaslighting. As if Clarice doesn’t face enough obstacles in the books.

I’ve always interpreted Ardelia as a bit of a neat freak, so that was a nice scene with the boxes!

Were most politicians wearing American flag pins in the early 90s? That feels way too modern. (iirc it became the “norm” only after 9/11.)

“Imagine someone field-dressing one of [your daughters] like a deer.” I’m getting strong and very unwelcome NBC vibes again. Stop it, show!

More gaslighting, but this time from the suspect.

“Well, I’m Army, so I’m actually a good shot.” For some reason this feels like shade at ex-Marine John Brigham even though he doesn’t exist in this show, and I’m offended on his behalf.

Speaking of, when is Clarice’s sharpshooting talent going to come up??

Krendler’s supporting Clarice? Saying she has a good idea???? WHO IS THIS GUY?!

The implication here is that...the president will fire AG Martin over bad press...? Or what?

What I’m getting from this: this Krendler is just some guy who hapens to have the same name, not the infamous King Scumbag we know and love to hate. (And those clothes...1993, where are you?!?)

Ardelia called her “Starling”! Though it was tongue-in-cheek.

“I’m aware I have the palate of an eight-year-old.” Somewhere, Hannibal is dying inside. (Hmm...wasn’t she about eight when her father was killed?)

This line/delivery was super cute!

But being unable to cook doesn’t necessarily mean you have unsophisticated tastes...

Is Catherine going to have any kind of personality? Beyond “is traumatized”?

And where is Catherine’s cat???

“It’s from the 50s.” “I’m from the 50s! ...I still work.” Cuuute.

Her sheepish little smile when the Baltimore cop tells her they’re “big fans” of hers...I would die for this girl, folks.

Hey, remember phone books?! And a nice nod to Ardelia being the bookish one of the pair.

Another homage to Silence’s cinematography (but this time she’s the reflection).

Krendler’s back in Asshole Boss mode again. Make up your minds.

Thanks, I still hate it!

Okay, yes Clarice has a temper! And she does act “impulsively” re: Krendler in Hannibal...at the END of her by-then failed career. But a fledgling female agent who’s already viewed as a kind of “loose cannon” could NOT afford to chuck a mug full of coffee at her boss (with whom she’s already butting heads/struggling to coexist) when she’s upset! Very unprofessional and unlike Clarice.

“You think I’m the one who wants to play politics?” In Hannibal, Krendler wants to run for Congress, so...yeah, I do.

Krendler wouldn’t be wrong to send Clarice home after that, tbh.

“He thinks I’m the weak link.” “You might be.” *angry noises*

Busting through doors while armed: Just Clarice Things

Krendler telling Clarice she was right...his characterization’s giving me whiplash.

Catherine’s not an actual character so far, and it’s sad.

Glad they’re acknowledging that AG Martin’s “field-dressing” comments were incredibly bad.

“I think I have some memories I need to look at...but not with you.” Oh! Oh! I know who she’s going to look at them with! ;)

“You’re trying to gaslight me, sir.” Not sure they would’ve used that term as commonly in the early 90s, though Clarice has a therapy license, so maybe?

But also: yes! CALL! HIM! OUT!

“I wish you luck finding someone who’s better at it than I am.” *shrieks* That is a Hannibal reference, and I’ll fight anyone who says it isn’t.

I’ve liked all these episodes more than my nit-picking might suggest, I swear. I enjoyed the middle half hour or so of this one a lot! It’s got a few charming little funny moments that I particularly appreciated. 

That said... This was, as a whole, probably Rebecca Breeds’ weakest showing to date (through no fault of her own). And I’m getting a little antsy about (lack of) character development. I’m on board with exploring Ardelia and Catherine Martin in greater depth...but Ruth Martin, too--even Krendler? And seemingly at the expense of Clarice’s own character?

What do the non-book readers in the audience really know about Clarice so far beyond what’s shown in Silence? (Some early interviews emphasized that the film didn’t have time to delve into Clarice’s character intimately. What has the show done to remedy that so far...?) She likes junk food, she has a brother...I can’t think of much else off the top of my head. Not to be a broken record, but there’s more to Clarice than childhood trauma. More than her career. If this show is genuinely about her--well, by episode 3 and 4, it’s high time for them to start exploring who she is beyond those things.

Clarice is a sharpshooter who competes and wins. She’s a runner. She loves horses and muscle cars. She has a therapy license. She graduated at the top of her large undergraduate class. She’s interested in fashion (though she probably doesn’t let on about that to many people). I haven’t seen any of that so far, and it’s beginning to make me sad. 

They also need to end the “Clarice is mentally/emotionally unstable and sometimes even hallucinates” subplot right now!

I’m dropping all my expectations for this Paul Krendler. They won’t commit to making him as intolerable and awful as he was in the books. Instead, we have an OC with a canonical name. Fine. But that choice is going to be awkward if the show goes forward and they, by some miracle, get rights to Hannibal’s character...

If Catherine Martin’s sticking around, I hope to God they give her a personality. Of course she’s suffering, and no, I don’t want them to belittle that--but right now, she’s coming across as a one-dimensional caricature of a victim rather than as a sympathetic real person.

And finally...where is my 90s aesthetic?! It’s one of the elements that I was most excited about, yet it’s barely present. Some of the tech and the cars look right. A lot of the clothes and hairstyles, though, leave much to be desired. (Clarice’s wardrobe is especially boring/disappointing so far. I was looking forward to an improvement on Jodie’s movie costumes! Clarice doesn’t have to dress just like Dana Scully--but at least Scully always looked straight out of 199x.) And there are little anachronistic things that take me right out of the early 90s.

I didn’t hate it. I didn’t love it. It wasn’t as exciting or as full of novel/film allusions as the first two (I guess they can’t all be). It also felt unfocused when it came to the characters, ultimately developing almost none of them, including the heroine. This is the episode I think I’m least likely to rewatch of the first three. 

I’m hoping for better from #4!