#if you need to constantly dismiss what the canon says to love your fave maybe you don't really love them.

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

"Y'all are trying to paint Jiang Cheng in a bad light"

The book and the author literally describes him like that, we are just discussing who he actually is.

[feyre-starborn]

I really hate acotar reddit rn with how they view Feyre as weak, no personality, and too perfect. Just recently, I saw a comment under an obv Feyre anti post that “she’s only kind and brave what now?” Idk maybe being a b*tch doesn’t always equate to being strong. I just hate how acotar reddit perceives Feyre in a very misogynistic way. It’s fine if you can’t relate with her but to say that she’s weak just because she has a different trauma response from yours is not it and is completely insensitive to those who can relate to Feyre. Saying things like “too untouchable” or “too perfect” dismisses the journey she went through in the trilogy and how she recovered from her trauma. For someone that values objectivity and canonicity in the books, acotar reddit sure likes to twist narratives just to lift up their faves.

Hey there <3,

I completely agree. And unfortunately it’s not just Reddit. The same arguments can be seen by antis here too.

Feyre’s whole journey in the original series constantly highlights that Feyre isn’t perfect? I don’t get why they assume that she is? But it’s probably because not being perfect doesn’t mean she’s problematic either. Because she isn’t. Feyre isn’t perfect but she’s not problematic either. That’s why the antis like to twist the narrative and blame Feyre for everything wrong that happened in the series that wasn’t her fault and accuse her of war crimes or blame her for Ne.sta being SA’d. Like huh?!?! (and yes. these are real arguments made by antis in their 20’s/30’s)

Feyre has so much to offer. Ne.sta doesn’t. Feyre’s power and reputation—not as High Lady or Rhys’ mate/wife—but as Feyre, the human girl who saved all the fae, spans the entirety of Prythian and beyond. And a perfect example of this is when Balthazar didn’t want to kill N.esta—not because of Ne.stas powers that were apparently so scary—but because he didn’t want to be on the receiving end of Feyre’s wrath. Nesta’s sister. And Vassa crossed a whole continent to find Feyre Cursebreaker for help. Not High Lady Feyre, not Rhys’ mate, but Feyre Cursebreaker!!!!!

People respect and love her. People care about her and would do anything for her. People are intimidated by what she did throughout the series but still respect her. The same can’t be said about Ne.sta. No one respects her. No one cares about her. The only thing she had to offer was her powers…and now they’re gone. Literally no one gives af about her, except her two friends, her mate, and somehow the sister she abused her whole life.

And these antis love to compare specific characters to Feyre—example: Viviane—to make Feyre look/seem weaker…but all they’re doing is making her look so much better? Viviane and Feyre are friends through Mor—whom they hate. They say that Viviane deserves to be High Lady more than Feyre and even go as far to say that she is the first High Lady, yet still to this day Viviane is only a consort and that’s it. They love to act like N.esta and Viviane would be besties but completely forget that Viviane doesn’t interact with N.esta and couldn’t gaf about her. Feyre is her own person with her own powerful reputation that everyone knows—before she even became fae—, and they respect her and are grateful for her. Nes.ta is just Feyre’s horrible older sister that stole powers from the cauldron and throws temper tantrums at 25 years old.

N.esta is just a nobody sister with a reputation for being snobby and rude, while Feyre is genuinely someone to be respect and be cautious about at the same time. Ne.sta is all bark and no bit while Feyre is genuinely someone to be cautious of. She’s more sly and quiet when it comes to her threats. She may seem kind but cross her and you’re literally dead. That’s why the antis thinks she’s weak. Because Feyre is actually the one that “doesn’t need to resort to threats”. While threats is all N.esta has going for her. That’s it.

But they clearly do all this this to uplift their fave because she is both problematic and not perfect. She is the definition of a horrible character with no empathy or remorse for anyone but herself. Feyre is selfless but N.esta is probably the most selfish person in the series. Nes.ya never had to make any sacrifices, while every other character did. And that’s because she’s spoilt rotten. The antis know this. And no matter how hard they try to argue about it or justify her actions, no amount of justifications can erase what’s canon. They also know this too. This is why they completely attack Feyre. Because they’re relating a little too hard to N.esta and her treatment of others especially Feyre. So that’s why they feel the constant need to make N.esta look like a hero, while victim blaming Feyre and trying to turn her into a villain. Because they feel a little too guilty and don’t want to confront that part of themselves so instead they attack Feyre and those who relate to her while enabling N.esta and her fans abusive behaviour. Because they know they’re wrong and can’t stand it.

And it’s also because N.estas/Ne.ssians story was such a flop that they are going feral with the rage and disappointment and feel the need to take it out in the Feyre fandom because Sarah literally loves Feyre so much. They thought Ne.sta would be a “queen of queens” but she wasn’t. She’s just a useless side character again by the end. The purpose of n.estas story and powers was literally just to continue Feysand’s story and set up this crossover, that Rhys seems to be the main highlight of because of his links to Bryce and Ruhn.. That’s it. Her story and powers are completely irrelevant while Feyre, Rhys and their story was so important for the series and this crossover.

So…No matter how many headcanons, fanfics or otherworldly arguments you make, it doesn’t erase what’s in canon. And in canon, N.esta was never a good person, but Feyre always was, even when she wasn’t perfect!!!! And if there is ever a weak character, it’s Nes.ta. Not Feyre.

[flying-elliska]

Okay, I'm reading Chap18, and I really hope this comment won't hurt your feelings because I love your fic and I really just want to understand why you wrote it this way, but I have to tell you that for the first time I've been disapointed with Diamants AU. I already felt it was going this way with Daphné, Arthur, Vallès, Emma and Alexia being LGBT, but I kind of felt betrayed with the Yann/Alex thing, and now I'm sensing Manon and Daphné will be together at some point too and ...(1)

...I don't understand why you made all your characters LGBT. I get that they are under-represented in most of the books and shows, but with Diamants I'm kind of feeling like being staight is a bad thing, like it's either boring or you're juste an asshole. I've always loved Skam because it shows that very different people can be friends and help each other no matter their religion, sexuality... and this kind of felt like the only reason they stand together is they're all LGBT (2) and I guess this comes from personal experience but that would have been so much more powerful to have straight people being as much invested in this war as the others. Honestly I don't see the point of Yann, Alex, Emma, Manon or Arthur not being straight, for me it doesn't bring more to who they are. This really feels like they would be nothing if they were straight. So I juste wanted to ask you why you decided this? Again, really hope this won't hurt you... (3/3)

hey anon. So, I’m going to assume this comes from a place of good faith and a sincere desire to understand, and explain my choices. That said, I do have to say that even though it didn’t really hurt me (it mostly made me laugh), it did make me a little angry too, because there are a lot of harmful implications in your messages.

1) First of all, about you “not seeing the point” of making certain characters LGBT. This functions under the assumption that there needs to be a reason for people to be gay, bi, trans, etc - and that straight people are the default. That is...really not great. People are gay in real life, for no reason whatsoever. If you don’t go to writers asking why they made their characters straight if there is no reason in the story, you shouldn’t do this either. Characters can be queer without it being a big part of the story - it’s just a part of them, and the idea that they have to ‘deserve a place’ in the narrative through their gayness (often through a deeply tragic arc full of suffering to Educate Straight people) is deeply heteronormative, and fucked up. LGBT people are not in a story to make a point, they’re there because they exist. Yes, some of my characters have arcs that are deeply entangled with their sexuality and struggles with it. Some are not. When it comes to Yann and Alex, I didn’t think too much about it, I thought it would be funny and unexpected and give some good shenanigans. Sometimes that’s all you need.

2) As for turning a majority of the canon straight characters LGBT : listen, in the end, this is my fic, and I do it because I want to. I’m bi and my life is full of queer people. This is my normal, this is what comes naturally to me, and what I find interesting to write about. I set out to write a James Bond parody with some deep character exploration, it’s meant to be a very transformative fic. I have no obligation to stick to any Skam ‘guidelines’. I am also not aiming to write a particularly realistic story, if the secret mobster conspiracy didn’t tick you off already. The ethos of fic is to make canon your playground and to let your imagination go wild. That said, this trope you’re probably used to, of having one or maybe two queer characters and not more in any given story, I would say is the less realistic one. In real life, LGBT people often tend to cluster together, often before they even realize their sexuality, especially as they get older. But a lot of mainstream media is afraid of that because they don’t want to alienate their straight audience, so they don’t show it. I have no such compunctions. Your message seems to imply that there is a limit to how many gay people there should be in a story and I find that deeply offensive. There is incredible relief, peace and power to be found in community, especially after being struggling so much with your sexuality, like Lucas did for instance. I wanted to show that joy in this chapter, and how it plays a part in him slowly letting his walls down.

3) I notice you don’t mention Imane. She’s straight, she’s super invested in this war, she’s neither boring or an asshole, in fact she’s probably the most important character in the fic after Lucas and Eliott. She’s badass and amazing and complex and if you don’t feel she counts as ‘good straight representation’ I find that slightly odd. Is she too ‘other’ for you that you would dismiss her like that ? Also, Basile is straight lmao. There’s plenty of straight people in this fic. And plenty of people who have incredibly different life experiences ; sexuality not being the main one doesn’t change that.

4) I do find it sort of silly that you reduce the characters’ reasons for fighting to being LGBT after I spent like 400k words proving otherwise. Like - Lucas wants to avenge his mother, Eliott wants to take down his father, Imane wants to avenge her father, Daphné wants to steal jewels, Alex and Emma are bored, Alexia’s a good friend (and also bored lol), they’re trying to stop horrible people from doing horrible things, their trajectories are layered and complex and if you tell me that can all be boiled down to ‘they’re gay’ I kind of wonder if you’ve paid attention to what you’ve read at all.

5) All that said, a majority of my characters being LGBT does have a symbolic point. It’s an opposition to the world of the Shadow, which is deeply sexist, heteronormative, homophobic, and macho. It represents how questioning your sexuality can be deeply liberating and often put you at odds with the general structures of power and oppression in society and lead you to question a lot more and find people who want to fight with you. Being LGBT can (but not always) make you more politically conscious and that’s a beautiful thing that deserves to be celebrated. And in general, being a minority makes you more aware of inequality because it’s simply your daily life. So it makes perfect sense that most of these characters who fight against symbols of horrible systemic oppression would be marginalized in some way or other. Straight/cis/white/rich/abled/etc people simply have less reasons to question the status quo. I have sat through so many action movies where all-straight heroes save the day ; I’m sure you can sit through the opposite for once. If you can’t, maybe it’s a failure of empathy or imagination on your part.

6) Imagine growing up and never seeing, around you or on TV or in books or movies, someone who shares your sexuality. Or if you ever see somebody like you, they will be a joke, a punchline, deluded, instable, doomed, or worse, a predator. Imagine the sort of damage that does. Imagine that when you finally find some correct representation, you have to make do with crumbs for years. Imagine it gets slowly better, but it’s still overwhelmingly tragic, or incorrect, or stereotypes, or only told after the story is over, or you’re always the best friend, always the minority, the point of interest there to educate, always there to struggle, never the epic breathtaking romance, never centered, never allowed community and to see yourself as the norm. In the best of cases, your identity is more or less ignored. In the rare cases where you find good representation, shows get cancelled prematurely, or your faves never get as much screen time as the straight ones, or storylines get botched because somehow writers think showing queer characters happy has no value. Imagine then you decide to take matters in your own hands and write the sort of queer utopia that makes you truly happy - the one where you’re surrounded with people like you and you don’t have to constantly feel isolated and otherized and you’re badass and don’t have to take any shit and your love story is the epic one that gets centered and you have friends who understand and share your experience. And then imagine someone, instead of taking a deep breath and going back to like, 99% of all media ever made, randomly comes to you and tells you they feel ‘betrayed’ because in this one paltry little fic you wrote, their mainstream experience is not centered like usual. Tell me, how would that feel ?

Again, I don’t bear you any ill will, but your message comes across as ignorant and very entitled. I am open to feedback and criticism but writing a story full of LGBT people is one thing I will never feel sorry for. There are a shit ton of fics out of there where those characters are straight, not to mention canon. If you feel ‘betrayed’ by the amount of queer characters in my fic, then I’d say you have some biases you need to examine. It reminds me of all the times I’ve heard people say that they ‘like gay people but only if they’re not too in your face’ (lol that was my sister, so fun) - this implication that queer people should know their place, never show their difference too openly, accept being a minority in all spaces, need to ‘deserve’ their spot, center straight people’s needs, etc etc...is deeply harmful and toxic.

If you can’t understand all this, then my writing is probably not for you.

[kittykatknits]

I love that when volcanoes and tempers are erupting in the fandom and there are wars and drama and anon hate messages- your blog is serene, positive and drama free; like hot chocolate and gentle bells ringing. I also appreciate that tho you've been in the fandom for years and have a know ASOIAF quite well you don't feel the need to rub it in ppl's faces. You're the chillest and one of the nicest ppl I've encountered in this fandom!

(this got long and rambly, sorry)

Oh, wow! Thank you anon!!

To be honest, I tend to miss a lot of what’s going on. With two young kids and a job that takes me away from technology for long periods, my time on this site tends to be limited to 30 second scrolls of my dash.

So, I’ll air my dirty laundry and tell you how I used to be in the ASOIAF fandom. Once, I was the person who engaged in every fight and would pretty much decide any/all opinions that disagreed with mine was close to an open declaration of war. I spent hours and hours posting, commenting, starting threads, and so on to explain to people why they were wrong and I was right. 

I used to get even more angry when I got called a Stan or was dismissed because I was a fan of Sansa or House Stark or whatever. It all came to a head in a discussion on whether or not Sansa would marry Aegon in the next book. I basically had a berserker nerd rage moment and realized I needed to step back from fandom Well, I did, and did my best to forget it all existed for two or three years.

The funny thing is, what people argue about now, is pretty much the exact same thing people were arguing about ten or fifteen years ago. It really hasn’t changed much at all. I’d say shipping is more popular now (asoiaf was not a shipping-friendly fandom once upon a time) and Sansa is a much more well-liked character. 

So, now, if people have different opinions or character preferences, I really don’t care. It doesn’t impact me so I scroll past, or unfollow, or block if I need too. I’m kinda over long debates or arguments, it’s not a particularly enjoyable experience. Ship who you wanna ship, like who you wanna like. It isn’t gonna change my opinion on my fave characters or theories. Don’t get me wrong, I still jump in to the occasional discussion if i have time, especially if it involves one of my faves. I’m not trying to hide my opinions and I’ll happily tell you if asked. (heck, my blog pretty much gives it away). But, I really try not to behave like I used too. 

I don’t know, it’s like a lesson I need to constantly re-learn. Don’t feed the trolls, they’ll eventually wither up and die. It’s less work and a lot more pleasant. Some people enjoy conflict and debate more than I do, and that’s great. Maybe my way isn’t for everyone, and that’s fine, but it works for me. 

Besides, after all these years, I’ve kinda come to the conclusion that of all the things I want to happen in canon only two are extremely likely: 1) the others will be defeated and 2) one or more Starks will be back in WF. And that’s about it. In my head, it doesn’t matter, because I have the characters I love and I can do with them whatever I want. Canon or not. 

So, if people ship Jaime and Brienne or not, or think Dany is the absolute worst or the best thing ever…it really doesn’t matter to me anymore. I might disagree, even strongly, but I’m not going to do anything about. 

This blog will pretty much stay as you see it. A random dumpster fire of things I like. With the occasional surprise quality post just to shake things up. Oh, and my fic. 

Thank you for the ask anon!!! 

[nyxelestia]

Racism in the Teen Wolf Fandom

[This post originally tagged several people I was directly addressing, as I was expecting it to mostly be reblogged by them and their followers, with maybe a small handful of people I asked to take a look at this post even bothering to read this behemoth, let alone share it. However, a lot more people than I expected paid attention to and shared this post, including a blog that dedicates itself to highlighting racism in fandom. In the interests of preventing "raiding"/dogpiling behavior against the people I addressed this post to, I have removed their handles.]

tl;dr - I don't actually believe any of you are racists, no more than I am, than we all are by virtue of being raised in a white-centric culture, internalizing the attitudes expressed by our media and community, and carrying those attitudes with us into fandom. But that is all the more reason we need to address bigotry in our communities, no matter how passive or benign or minor, because that is the only way to engender change in this fandom, in fandom in general, and in ourselves. I take issue with your guys' posts and meta not because I think everyone should worship Scott - hey, he's not my #1 fave either - or because I think he is perfect (no one is, perfect characters are boring). I take issue with the fact a lot of your logic, meta, and analyses rely on the same racist arguments that permeate mainstream media. I object to the casual dismissal of canonical events, and the way headcanons and assumptions are treated as canon when analyzing the show (especially when they are overwhelmingly skewed a certain direction). And I object to the fact every attempt by myself and many, many others to point all of this out is often met with little more than dismissing everything with the vague claim that we're "too sensitive" and "see racism everywhere" and "are only using buzzwords". I don't think any of you are racists, but I think all of you have utilized or enabled racist rhetoric when talking about Scott (and several other characters, but primarily Scott, for reasons I explain down below).

I'm temporarily disabling anon - either one of you, or one of your followers, constantly fills my inbox with misogynistic slurs every time I speak up against bigotry in fandom, and I just do not have the time to IP block each one. I just got this lovely one just yesterday:

(I and everyone else who talk about racism in Teen Wolf fandom are accused of "using buzzwords", while I'm getting anons who accuse me of misogyny while calling me a cunt. Yay irony.)

If you want to yell at me, do it under your own name. And yes, out of all the people circle-jerking on the original post, I blocked the one who used name-calling now, and has demonstrated some remarkably immature behavior in the past. If bhadpodcast is going to act and post like I blocked them, I might as well actually block them and save myself the headache. They can still relay messages to me through one of you. The rest of you have demonstrated yourself to be open-minded and willing to listen to logical arguments in the past (or I don't know you well enough to assume that you'll ignore my words and skip straight to the name-calling) which is why I've tagged you.

This is a rodeo I've ridden before, and while I can always hope for change, the reality is that I have already expressed all of this in meta before, and that I've spoken to most of you directly about all of this. I'm familiar with the arguments you make, and I'm tired. So it's going to take pretty much all of my self-control to do this, but no matter what you reblog, I am not going to respond. I'm not going to get caught up in the tactics of deflection and distraction, I'm not going to let you draw me into petty arguments on isolated comments and use that as an excuse to ignore the overwhelming majority of this post, and I'm not interested in rehashing arguments I've already had a dozen times over with almost all of you at one point or another.

If you actually read this entire thing and have an honest rebuttal to something I stated below, and its something that is based in the canonical source material, is not contradicted by other canonical source material, and is not contingent on a headcanon, my Messenger is open. Otherwise, it's been good talking to you, and I'm sure we'll be talking about all of this again, soon enough. But I am stating my piece and peacing out, because I need to save up my energy for the next time this wank comes around - and given the way fandom has shown itself to act in the past (and the fact racism has been around far, far longer than television, letalone fandom), that is not an 'if', but a 'when'.

Below the cut:

1.) Yes, Scott is a character of color, I don't care what country you're in.

2.) The fact that most of the racism in Teen Wolf fandom comes in microaggressions does not make it less racist.

3.) Actors and characters are held to tremendously disparate double standards and this is a huge problem, probably the biggest one.

4.) Racism of Teen Wolf fandom is highly reflective of racism offline/in the "real world".

On Scott actually being a character of color

Now, first and foremost - I don't really care what country you are from, Scott is a character of color. I get that some of you come from backgrounds where someone with his complexion is coded as white, but ignoring the fact that 1.) internalized racism is as much of a problem as external racism and 2.) most of ya'll have your own serious problems with colorism and race (where do you think America got it from?), the reality is that you are watching an American TV show, filmed using Amercian actors and and in a setting whose populace is designed to look American. On top of that, most of you have consumed plenty of American media before Teen Wolf, or media that reflects/contains the same problems with colorism and racism as American media.

Even if you did not perceive Scott as white on your first watch, the majority of the target audience did, a significant portion of your meta still used logic and arguments saturated in racist rhetorical history (American racism and otherwise), and many of your character delineations still fell along racial lines (i.e. which characters you headcanon as being secretly evil or having ulterior motives, and which ones you headcanon as secretly not being as evil as they act). As this article points out, the actual TV show has a pretty sketchy history when it comes to its treatment of non white, non male characters - granted, it's nothing new, most TV shows do this or something like this, as does most media in general. But "everyone else does it" and "it's always been this way" has never been an excuse before, and Teen Wolf doesn't get to start now.

On top of that, even if you personally came from a country with no ties to or influences from Western racism at all, you are still engaging in a fandom that is largely rooted in America, with American racial preconceptions, and dealing with American racial norms. Much of my issues with racism in your posts, meta, and reponses is not that an individual is immediately being racist, but rather are perpetuating racist misconstructions.

i.e. Stiles gets struggles on a test, and it's because he has ADHD, so/and he's still a genius, which is reinforced by all the times outside of school. Allison openly admits to having had to repeat a year before and failing a class now, and it's attributed to familial and superantural stress. But Scott gets a bad grade, he's an idiot, and the idea that he "never" does anything outside of school. You aren't going to call Scott stupid because of his ethnicity. But by taking away situations in which he has demonstrated intelligence and cunning and attributing it to someone else, you reinforce anti-Scott fans' rhetoric that Scott is an idiot who can't do anything, most of which traces back to racial stereotypes about Latino boys in the American education system. This is just one of many, many examples.

I understand why you feel like the fact you didn't code Scott as white on your first watch means you don't and can't possibly have racist attitudes towards him or express it in meta. But the thing is, bigotry is rarely about you individually, it's almost always about how you connect to and relate to a broader tradition of oppression and marginalization. There is not a single English-speaking or European country that does not currently have problems with racism and colorism, and while the nuances of how racism manifests varies from country to country, the traditions, media trends, and social habits do not - which is why the fact that people from different countries perceive characters' a little differently based on their appearances, the underlying rhetoric and logic is still the same.

Teen Wolf Fandom Racism

In the post this came clusterfuck from, the person I was responding to literally says, 'the hero is not a hero, and the villain IS the hero'. The fact that she didn't actually say their races doesn't change the fact all the positive attributes or successes of the character of color were projected onto white characters, while supporting the idea that the character of color is evil. She literally removed the character of color from the story, by claiming that the adult werewolf is actually the "teen wolf". AUs are fine and dandy and dark AUs are a lot of fun. But we call them AUs for a reason. The show itself is one created by people, not some documentary about real life events. The story presented is the story intended, and the post is one which undermines that story in order to demonize a character of color, while also deifying white characters, in a way that is contingent of separating the character of color from his own story and plastering his story onto white characters.

It's a not-so-micro microaggression. Just because you don't intend a certain bias, does not mean you are not acting it out or perpetuating it. Just because you are not intentionally judging someone on the basis of race, does not eliminate the fact you (and I) were raised in a very racist culture, and especially in a racist media environment, and express racialized judgments without intending it. We all do this - up until her library scene with Mason in Season 5, I was doing this with Kira all the time. And I've also fallen prey to the tendency to sideline Boyd. When I recognized that I ponder the stories of white characters who has as much screen time as him or even less so, I strove to change that.

This article explains the way fandom treats characters of color and how erasure manifests in fandom, and very specifically #3 in to one of you whose meta I was responding to before. The article is primarily about shipping, but it also specifically addresses the demonization of Deaton, and other characters of color, in the Teen Wolf fandom, and puts these into the context of fandom racism in general, not just Teen Wolf. In particular:

When characters of color are distanced from their triumphs and relationships in canon via headcanon, photo manipulations/edits, or simply not being written or drawn into fanworks, it’s an attempt to minimize the importance of the character. Whether or not it’s a subconscious or conscious distancing, the fact of the matter is that fandom does this on the regular and it usually only benefits white characters (and largely white fans) because it takes importance away from the few characters of color that the canon gives us.

This is literally erasing a character of color and replacing him with a white character, who the fuck thought this was okay? I get that this was a Stiles-centric event, but if you can smoothly switch out heads and paste in characters, then you can damn well make your own banner pulling together all the characters independently, without erasing the character of color and pasting a white character over him.

On top of that, the post points out how much racism in fandom manifests as separating characters of color from their white friend.

Take a look at the finale of Season 2. We never once see Stiles' reaction to Gerard (he wasn't even there, yet). Only edited for size and brightness, here is Stiles' entrance to the scene - after Gerard has already collapsed from the mountain ash:

Incidentally, the show never explains how Stiles actually knew to go to this warehouse in the first place, and at the the beginning of the scene, it was Scott, Chris, and Isaac who arrived here first, setting the location for the finale. There are a lot of possible explanations for all of these. But fandom only treats one as if it were canon, while rarely or never mentioning the other, equally likely, possibility. Why? Because that creates a separation between Scott and Stiles (despite/especially because of the fact the season literally ends with the two of them goofing off together).

The very ending of the season is about Scott and Stiles playing lacrosse together after Scott respectfully walks away from Allison when she breaks up with him, but how many post-S2 fics start out with Stiles feeling lonely because Scott abandoned him for Allison? We see Stiles discovering the alpha symbol and learning about the alpha pack at the same time as Scott at the beginning of Season 3A - yet why do so many people talk about Stiles helping Derek look for them over the summer as if it were canon? (In the interest of demonstrating full disclosure about our own mistakes, even I used to think this, just because it appeared in fanfic so many times. It wasn't until my second watch of S3 that I realized Stiles hadn't canonically been helping Derek look for Erica and Boyd, or known about the alpha pack beforehand.)

(Sloppy gif is sloppy. Derek and Scott were talking about alphas, so Derek actually said "A pack of them." This conversation was interspersed with cuts from the Braeden and Alpha Pack fight scene, so the awkward jumps are from cutting those out.)

This unconscious racism also manifests in how fandom treats actors of color in the fandom, and in Teen Wolf fandom.

Dylan O'Brien made a joke about violating native law and taking advantage of sacred land for his own personal humor, and fandom largely forgot about it in a week. Tyler Posey makes a joke about being gay, and fandom still rails at him over it. Tyler and Dylan should be held accountable to the same standards. Both of them made a stupid, shitty joke, and both apologized pretty quickly. Only one of them is still being taken to task for it.

One Tyler calls Sterek twisted and bizarre, the other Tyler calls Sterek disrespectful. Only one is taken to task over it, and it's the one who was routinely harassed about this ship, whose character is almost systemically marginalized from his own TV show, and whose character's death was being advocated to make another character into the lead of the show.

For those who want more quantative evidence

The number of fanworks about Scott compared to Stiles and Derek is ridiculous. On its own, in the context of a fandom that wasn't so otherwise racist or engaging in racist rhetoric and behavior, I'd buy that it was because there are many reasons why someone could identify with Stiles and Derek more than Scott. But most of the reasons people profess for identifying with Stiles - complexity, mental illness, etc., - are also attributes that apply to Scott's character, which means if you eliminate the things that are same, the racial difference becomes much, MUCH more prominent.

This is before getting into the fact that if you go into the Scott McCall tag right now, most of the fics (based on other tags, and summaries) aren't even about him, but about Stiles and/or Derek. Out of the 10 results in the first page when I just checked, only 1 had a summary that wasn't about Stiles or Derek. And it's really hard to take "Scott is just not that interesting" too seriously when I see how many people have forgotten really engaging scenes and stories with him, and how often people think a scene between him and either Stiles or Derek was actually between Stiles and Derek - and not him - in the show. People erase Scott from his own story, then claim he has no story.

Other Prominent Examples and Points of Contention

We live in a culture that romanticizes white pain in media, and dismisses the experiences and pain of non-white characters. Western audiences are trained and predisposed to dismissing characters of color, their experiences, their pain, and their development - or to taking these experiences and projecting them onto white characters. People are culturally trained to romanticize white, male suffering (which they do with Derek and Stiles), and dismiss men of color or their needs or pain (which they do with Scott).

To put it more bluntly, people will make a hundred gifsets about Stiles crying in the waiting room, but barely a dozen of Scott crying into his mother's arms. There are a hundred gifsets of Stiles conning Derek into a striptease in the first season, but barely any of Scott admitting he'd made a mistake in accusing Derek of murder, and trying to fix it. Does anyone remember that while Stiles and Derek were paralyzed on the floor of the police station in Matt's rampage, Scott had been shot? I've seen hundreds of gifs and images made of Stiles and Derek's pool scene - but I can't remember ever seeing a gifset about Gerard torturing Scott after that, stabbing him and holding the knife in while threatening his mother. And oh, hey, do you remember what Scott was dealing with during the pool scene?

No one is actively racist against Scott, but the implications that he's never changed, that he's never suffered, that he has no story, etc. etc. that so much of the anti-Scott meta is built upon - those are because people just dismiss his experiences and his story, without ever once actually thinking about it. They dismiss it when they watch it, and then again when they make a million gifs about Stiles and Derek's experiences, yet only a fraction as many about Scott's experiences.

This post illustrates my point quite nicely.

It's a pair of gifs from the first season about the boys after Hunters show up at the school, with feel good tags about Stiles "swooping in to save Derek". But here's the thing, those gifs have been edited to cut out Scott from the scene. Scott was the one driving Derek's car to rescue them. *Scott was was saving Derek too.* They were BOTH saving Derek's ass in here, but the gifs are edited to only show Stiles, and the tags only talk about Stiles. If you didn't actually watch this scene yourself, you probably wouldn't know that Scott was even there, let alone the fact the scene was primarily between him and Derek, not Stiles and Derek. How often do we see characters of color in critical roles get dismissed as "support staff"? Scott is "just" the getaway driver, so he's not important anymore to this scene, he no longer exists, only Stiles does.

(This can be a cute Sterek moment, but it can also be a cute Scerek moment and McHaleinski moment. Stiles and Derek actually have the least interaction in this scene, and Stiles is literally in the backseat and mostly in the background of the scene, which is focused on Derek and Scott.)

So now a lot of people are seeing this gifset, and not just internalizing those feel-good tags - they are internalizing the idea that it was only Stiles saving Derek, conveniently forgetting that Scott was even there. On top of that, the ensuing dialogue involves Scott admitting he made a mistake in accusing Derek of murder when he thought Derek was dead, and trying to fix the problem - but how many meta accuse him of never changing, admitting his mistakes, or addressing problems that he caused?

And this is just one example, from the very first season.

On top of that, that scene was also where Stiles and Derek find out the symbol Derek was investigating was on Allison's pendant. The next scene is Stiles pushing Scott to ignore Allison's need for space, in order to get that necklace - but Scott is the one who is blamed for "emotionally abusing her/manipulating her" for trying to reach out to her. I'd bet money that if Scott had decided to respect Allison's space, fandom would be decrying him for not helping Stiles and Derek hunt down an actual killer just because he didn't want to make a teenaged girl he barely knew a little uncomfortable. :|

Other Double Standards

Scott is called an abuser for levels of interpersonal violence that Stiles and Derek are constantly excused for it. Scott lies, and is called manipulative, Stiles lies, and he's just trying to protect people. People in fandom say that Derek is "violent, but not abusive", despite recurring acts of violence against relatively vulnerable characters who are under his care, yet they call Scott an abuser for all of two instances of lashing out at Isaac over something stupid.

Alan Deaton gets headcanons painting him as evil because he withholds information from the main characters. Stiles withholds information from the other characters, and he's just traumatized and scared.

Marin Morrell said if no other solutions to the nogitsune problem was found, then she'd kill one teenager who they already have confirmed is the source/host of the villain, in order to protect the rest of the town from the definite threat. Derek nearly murdered an innocent teenager, hoped for and attempted to engineer the death of another teenager, and dragged three more teenagers into a violent situation which they had little understanding of because he needed a pack (the alpha pack didn't come until later). But he is not called a villain at nearly half the rate Morrell is, if at all outside of the anti-Derek fandom. (Side note: neither of them are villains. Both of them are stuck dealing with the actual villains who've forced them into shitty situations. My problem is that while neither of them are villains, only one of them is repeatedly called and portrayed as one in fanworks.)

Boyd probably fares best, by virtue of barely ever getting mentioned in fanfic or meta, even in comparison to Cora or Erica (who he had about as much screentime as).

Fandom compares Scott to a rapist for using Derek's body against his will in order to save Allison's life. But where were they when Liam tried to kill Scott for his girlfriend, and Scott takes a few weeks to feel safe around him again instead of welcoming him back with open arms right away?

By the way, wanna know why fandom rarely gifs the scene of Scott forcing Derek to Bite Gerard with the actual dialogue?

Because you can't compare Scott to a rapist for using Derek's body against him when we see that he's only doing it because the villain is holding someone hostage and threatening their life, and you can't claim that Scott never apologizes for anything if you see him literally apologizing for what he's doing to Derek. And I'd bet even more money that if the reverse had happened, fandom would have decried Scott for letting Allison die "just" so Derek wouldn't have had to Bite someone he didn't want to, and called him a murderer for it.

People castigate Scott for successfully setting a broken leg when it was technically illegal, but I don't see any posts castigating Stiles for interfering in police investigations, violating people's privacy and boundaries, or interfering with an active crime scene/body search.

People call Scott a murderer because Theo killed Tracy and Josh on another character's information - not even a suggestion, just information - yet Derek actively sought to violate a girl's bodily autonomy and got her killed as a result. (I don't think he is a murderer for it - I think that if he isn't a murderer for Paige's death, then it's as ridiculous or even more so to claim that Scott is responsible for Theo's victims.)

Scott isn't perfect, no one on this show is, because perfect characters are boring. But only Scott is considered evil and villainous for not being perfect, while white characters' flaws are celebrated. Scott is derided for not being held accountable, but not only are the instances where he is held accountable erased, white characters' actions are constantly excused or justified without anybody screaming about their lack of accountability. Fandom hates on Scott for not verbally apologizing for things, but no one makes hate posts about the fact Stiles and Derek never verbally apologize, either. Fandom holds Scott up to an impossible standard while having little to no standards for the white characters. They use "he's the main character/protagonist/hero!" to justify the double standard, but then try to claim he ISN'T the protagonist or hero to justify giving his story to a white character - in the instance at the beginning of this post, a white villain no less - and casting him as the villain.

Main Points

I like darkfic as much as the next person, but that doesn't erase the fact that the process of making Scott a villain (as in, claiming Scott is actually a villain in the context of canon) is contingent on the racist traditions of separating a character of color from their own story, wiping away that characters' story, and romanticizing the struggles and personal strifes of white characters (often in the process of "giving" the character of colors' stories to them).

This problem isn't unique to Teen Wolf. Just about every fandom is racist, and many (if not most) of their media sources are even more racist than Teen Wolf. If anything, one thing Teen Wolf fandom has going for it is that, while it still has a lot of sexism and misogyny, it seems to have less so than most other, similar fandoms. Though the biggest point of comparison is the Supernatural fandom, so that might not be saying much.

The difference is that in other fandoms, the main characters are white, and most of the surrounding characters are white, too. Characters of color are always secondary ones. A Netflix show was the first time an MCU production had a non-white character as its lead. But in Teen Wolf, the main character is a character of color, and he's still getting treated the same way as secondary characters of other fandoms, if not even worse so.

I don't think any of you, as individuals, are racist. But I do think that all of you, as individuals, never examine racial biases in your media consumption or analysis. This leads to you microaggressively expressing racist attitudes in your meta, passively perpetuating racist stereotypes and tropes, and - however unintentionally - enabling racism in fandom.

I was also asked if I admit to my own biases, so here it is: When it comes to analyzing Teen Wolf (and making judgments about the show and the characters therein), I don't care about people's headcanons, or fanons, just the source material. The show was written by written by over a dozen people alongside Jeff Davis and produced by MTV, it did not magically appear out of thin air, nor is it a skewed documentation of some "real" story or "real" events. I believe in holding the characters' to the same level of accountability, and the same standards, as each other. If this makes me biased, then yes, fine, I'm biased.

I also know that none of these problems are unique to Teen Wolf fandom, and that actual Scott stans have also justified his poor decisions, and hated on Stiles and Derek. Some of you might remember me getting blocked by some Sciles BNFs for saying "Derek's not a rapist", and I've lost track of the number of times I'd try to reblog a Stydia or Stalia gifset, only for it to turn out I can't, and most likely this comes from my past of pointing out misogyny in those fandoms.

Meanwhile, Sciles fandom slathers heteronormativity onto the pairing as much as Sterek fandom does, and the fact that it's being done on an interracial relationship actually makes it a little worse than when it's on the all-white Sterek ship (but that's a can of worms for another day). Female characters like Allison, Lydia, Malia, and Kira are constantly utilized as little more than talking plot-devices or fag-hags in fandom unless it's explicitly about them, and they are reduced to caricatures instead of characters even more than the most underserved male characters of color, like Boyd. For all of them, I went onto their character tags, and I didn't find a fic summary that was about them until I got the second page, which is worse than Scott having only 1 out of 10 in the first page.

But the sheer amount of Scott hate outpaces hate of all the other characters combined, and the sheer amount of fanworks about these secondary characters outpaces the fanworks about the main character. And yes, every ship and character's fandom sent rape and death threats to the cast and crew over their stupid ship or character. But the amount leveled at Tyler Posey from Sterek fans, even before he finally snapped and made an unprofessional comment about it, is tremendously higher than all the other kinds of hate - especially when compared to the fandom's reaction to the Tyler Hoechlin also saying a negative comments about Sterek.

Fandom does not exist in a vacuum.

The attitudes by which white characters' trauma and experiences are used to justify their violence while characters of colors' victimizations are dismissed, is the same logic used to defend cops who "just reacted" or "panicked", while blaming young children of color for "getting shot" by not behaving 100% correctly. The logic by which a white characters' abusive behavior and characters of colors' abuse are dismissed, while the white characters' abuse and the character of colors' abusive behaviors are exaggerated, is the same logic for which white rapists are painted as "merely making a mistake" while a black shoplifter is painted as a bankrobber in the making.

And the logic of calling someone who explains all this an "ableist troll" for pointing this out is the same logic used to pit marginalized peoples against each other in an effort to maintain the status quo - why do you think racism between racial minorities exists? And the logic of claiming someone is just "exploiting real tragedies" to talk about racism in fandom only makes sense if you assume all fans are white, and therefore none have ever been or will be touched by racism or racial violence in their real lives, and only bring up race to prop up fictional characters.  (Yes, these are why I blocked bhadpodcast.)

Some of you can choose to walk away from racism, you can talk about it in fandom and that is the only place it will ever affect you directly. Not all of us get that luxury. Some of us have to confront racism in our daily lives, and sometimes, the racism online and the racism offline start to look and sound the same.

And I will apologize for one thing on the post that started this: my tags in my initial response were needlessly aggressive. I had to deal with racism in my real life, and then I came home, and see echoes of that exact same racism in a fandom post, and I over-reacted in the tags.

The logic by which a character of color is erased from his own narrative, derided as a villain, and replaced by a white character, is the same logic that is used in professional environments to judge who has "worked hard" and who hasn't (and thus, who gets promoted and who doesn't). Maybe, if you've never experienced racial bias in the work place, these seem like problems worlds away from each other, but they are not, these are two different manifestations of the same subconscious bias. When I came into fandom and saw someone I consider close to a friend regurgitating the exact same illogic as one of my workplace superiors, I snapped.

When I say that fandom doesn't exist in a vacuum, this is what I mean. The same attitudes and judgments of people that exist in offline life - based on their physical appearance, their skin tone, their heritage, etc. - follow us into fandom, whether we like it or not.

I acknowledge I should've been a lot calmer about expressing my frustrations with that post. I probably shouldn't have answered so soon after work-life problems and just before I was supposed to go to bed. I tell people all the time to hold back on topics which are personal to them and wait until they are calmer to address it, and here I went and ignored that. I took out my anger on athena via those tags, and for that, I am sorry.

But it's also the only thing I'm sorry about. I still stand by my notion that the post I was responding to was very racist, and the fact that the characters' races were never brought up in the post itself does not change that.

[thelioninmybed]

Misc replies

berrysphase replied to your post “valaraukars replied to your post “AU maeglin in mithrim with grandad...”

I'm sideeyeing myself here for sounding so "MY PET THEORY" when my whole point was there's actually a whole bunch of ways to explain Earendil not getting the Kingship and some of them can leave Maeglin the legitimate heir -- lol sorry (Assuming Gil is Orodreth's, that is, I always do too!) I figure the relative Sindarin comfort with powerful women has a lot to do with Melian, but it turns out I could go on and add screenfuls about Elwe's special status

and king's choice etc etc so uh I'll spare you... Also surely this attitude has a lot to do with why Galadriel married a Sinda.

Elves arguing inheritance politics is my catnip but it's also a bit brain-breaking -- I mean here are these immortal beings arguing about different interpretations of inheritance law when inheritance was just invented out of whole cloth so recently, you get to blatant rationalization s and bad philosophical arguments so fast

No no, it certainly can be done but you’re right, I forgot about Earendil during my analysis. Gil as Orodreth has always made sense to me, especially with how small a player he is until after the War of Wrath. God, the Galadriel-Marries-A-Sinda thing is an excellent point. I tend to skim over the more overtly patriarchal crap in the text (and in my fic, unless I’m making a point) but it explains an awful lot about why such an ambitious woman would spend so much time away from the action - she has vastly more of a say in governance etc. in Doriath than she would have in her own peoples’ lands - and of course she’d marry a Sinda, this is great. 

God, yes, how did the issue of who would inherit Finwe’s crown break society when the issue was, as far as anyone knew, entirely academic? (because it was really a question of who daddy loved more :()

psychopompious replied to your post “valaraukars replied to your post “AU maeglin in mithrim with grandad...”

"and she's his great aunt" you say that like it would be a problem for him. that's only 4th degree consanguinity, same as first cousins!

also re: Celeborn's relation to Thingol, I think in that version it's through the schrodinger's cat brother (aka Elmo) but I'd have to dig up that lovely chart of Doriath's long line of cousin marriages to check

.......okay fuck, you’re right. Maeglin would. 

If that’s the case then I suppose I owe Tolkien an apology. But he’s dead and also we have no idea what happened to Lalwen so I’m just gonna sit on it. 

vardasvapors replied to your post “Paying attention to those things is not my forte but thank you for...”

I just wanted to mention that this series of prompted au's is like my fave thing in the fandom rn

Thx xx I just wish I could be more varied with them than ‘but then everyone died anyway’

crocordile replied to your post “valaraukars replied to your post “AU maeglin in mithrim with grandad...”

to be fair though, nothing in canon suggests elwing held a position of authority by herself; you can easily assume her position comes from her marriage :/ Though ofc that is not my interpretation/headcanon at all!

re: earendil's ellegibility for high kingship: on the purely legalist side cirdan and co might just be following finrod's logic and taking finarfin's to be the royal line after fingolfin's death, or something? i always assumed that (but then again i def hc gil as oro's son which not many do hahaha)

You: “I don't think Tolkien meant for us to interpret it this way."

Me, an intellectual w. a folder of Silm erotica: "He didn't mean for us to interpret a lot of things this way. But we did."

I.E. Elwing is queen and idgaf what Tolkien wanted. 

I am with you on Gil as Oro’s (AND NOT JUST FOR SHIPPING REASONS OKAY, I HAVE LAYERS), someone pointed out the thematic neatness of the three lines of Finwe’s descendants dying to other elves, to Morgoth, and to Sauron respectively and Gil as an Arafinwean falls neatly into that. 

simaethae replied to your post “Paying attention to those things is not my forte but thank you for...”

how about they win a decisive enough victory to reclaim *one* silmaril and then morgoth flips and... volcanoes. or something. anyway you could totally contrive an AU where some of the feanorians, i'm saying C&C for kicks, have to fall back to the safety of Doriath in the ensuing chaos with their newly-obtained silmaril (since after all we know a silmaril can get you through the girdle...)

like i'm sorry this is great but i feel like it just needs more terrible decision making from the noldor to be a silm AU >>;

I’m starting to feel bad for Anon, okay? Just like Mandos, even my cold heart can be moved to pity. 

C+C in Doriath would be exquisite tbh, it’s yet another closed system where they can feed on paranoia, claw for power, and Celegorm can get into a creep off with Daeron while Thingol despises them while coveting the jewel and Melian is like ‘for fuck’s sake guys’ but no one listens. At least maybe the dwarves are free of the murder shenanigans this time around!

emilyenrose replied to your post “Paying attention to those things is not my forte but thank you for...”

ok but any au where luthien doesn't dress up as a vampire is a bad end au anyway

Truer words have never been spoken. 

vardasvapors replied to your post “Idk if you'll agree or not, but for the au where the silmarils don't...”

this is so wonderfully terrible and perfect, i love the...honesty and simplicity of the things they say, in them talking specifically about their relationship, though the feelings and Maglor's claims about finishing it can map onto much more. Also "I'd like that" JUST KILL ME.

It didn’t kill Mae though, more’s the pity :( Okay but realtalk, thank you <3 I suppose by this point all pretension’s pretty much been stripped away, they’re well past the point where lying to each other or themselves would do any good. 

valaraukars replied to your post “Ok I've find that tag .. but you actually read it? You can find it...”

You know who defied the valar? You know who doesn't get any credit? You know who is a character of true depth and nuance, constantly dismissed by an undeserving fandom? Ungoliant

No no Ungoliant, as established, abandoned her children and is a bad mother and thus a bad woman giant spider. Please keep your vile glorification of her off my blog. 

imindhowwelayinjune replied to your post “Idk if you'll agree or not, but for the au where the silmarils don't...”

You are maddeningly good at feelings that cut to the bone and somehow have this soupcon of humor - 'I'd like that,' said Maedhros wistfully - that makes the feeling go straight through the bone to the marrow

I left off the hurtful swears cause I know you don’t really mean them. Maedhros wishes feelings really worked so literally :(