#if you are a member of the Jewish community and share this sentiment please reblog

[youareprobablywrong]

What Israel is doing to the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip is a detestable and genocidal show of disproportionate military force. It is morally wrong, and ethically atrocious.

This overwhelming response by Israel is not supported by the entire Jewish community, and does not speak for all Jews. These are decisions of self-righteous and pompous leaders that have forgotten their own lineages history with such violence.

[pumpkinpaix]

mdzs fandom, diaspora, and cultural exchange

Hey everyone. This post contains a statement that’s been posted to my twitter, but was a collaborative effort between several diaspora fans over the last few weeks. Some of the specifics are part of a twitter-localized discourse, but the general sentiments and issues raised are applicable across the board, including here on tumblr.

If you’ve been following me for a while, you’ve probably seen a few of my posts about this fandom, cultural exchange, and diasporic identity. For example, here, here, and here. This statement more directly criticizes some of the general issues I and others have raised in the past, and also hopefully provides a little more insight into where those issues come from. I would be happy if people took the time to read and reblog this, as the thought that went into it is not trivial, and neither is the subject matter. Thank you.

Introduction

Hello. I'm a member of a Chinese diaspora discord server - I volunteered to try and compile a thread of some thoughts regarding our place and roles in the fandom expressed in some of our recent discussions. This was primarily drafted by me and reviewed/edited by others with the hopes that we can share a cohesive statement on our honest feelings instead of repeatedly sharing multiple, fragmented versions of similar threads in isolation.

This was compiled by one group of diaspora and cannot be taken to represent diaspora as a whole, but we hope that our input can be considered with compassion and understanding of such.

For context, we are referencing two connected instances: the conflict described in these two threads (here and here), and when @/jelenedra tweeted about giving Jewish practices to the Lans. Regarding the latter, we felt that it tread into the territory of cultural erasure, and that it came from a person who had already disrespected diaspora’s work and input.

Context

The Lans have their own religious and cultural practices, rooted both in the cultural history of China and the genre of xianxia. Superimposing a different religious practice onto the Lans amidst other researched, canonical or culturally accurate details felt as if something important of ours was being overwritten for another’s personal satisfaction. Because canon is so intrinsically tied to real cultural, historical, and religious practices, replacing those practices in a canon setting fic feels like erasure. While MDZS is a fantasy novel, the religious practices contained therein are not. This was uncomfortable for many of us, and we wanted to point it out and have it resolved amicably. We were hoping for a discussion or exchange as there are many parallels and points of relation between Chinese and Jewish cultures, but that did not turn out quite as expected.

What happened next felt like a long game of outrage telephone that resulted in a confusion of issues that deflected responsibility, distracted from the origin of the conflict, and swept our concern under the rug.

Specifically, we are concerned about how these two incidents are part of what we feel is a repeated, widespread pattern of the devaluing of Chinese fans’ work and concerns within this fandom. This recent round of discourse is just one of many instances where we have found ourselves in a position of feeling spoken over within a space that is nominally ours. Regardless of what the telephone game was actually about, the way it played out revealed something about how issues are prioritized.

Background

MDZS is one of the first and largest franchises of cmedia that has become popular and easily accessible outside of China. Moreover, it’s a piece of queer Chinese media that is easily accessible to those of us overseas. For many non-Chinese fans, this is the first piece of cmedia they have connected with, and it’s serving as their introduction to a culture previously opaque to them. What perhaps is less obvious is that for many Chinese diaspora fans, this is also the first piece of cmedia THEY have connected with, found community with, seen themselves in.

Many, many of us have a fraught relationship with our heritage, our language—we often suffer from a sense of alienation, both from our families and from our surrounding peers. For our families, our command of the language and culture is often considered superficial, clunky, childish. Often, connecting with our culture is framed as a mandatory academic duty, and such an approach often fosters resentment towards our own heritage. For our non-Chinese peers, our culture is seen as exotic and strange and other, something shiny and interesting to observe, while we, trapped in the middle, find ourselves uprooted and adrift.

MDZS holds an incredibly important place in many diaspora’s hearts. Speaking for myself, this is literally the first time in my life I have felt motivated and excited about my own native tongue. It's the first time I have felt genuine hope that I might one day be able to speak and read it without fear and self-doubt. It is also the first time that so many people have expressed interest in learning from me, in hearing my thoughts and opinions about my culture.

This past year and a half in fandom has been an incredible experience. I know that I am not alone in this. So many diaspora I have spoken to just in the last week have expressed similar sentiments about the place MDZS holds in their lives. It is a precious thing to us, both because we love the story itself, and because it represents a lifeline to a heritage that’s never felt fully ours to grasp.

It’s wonderful to feel like we are able to welcome our friends into our home and show them all these things that have been so formative to our identities, and to be received with such enthusiasm and interest. Introducing this to non-Chinese friends and fans has also been an opportunity to bridge gaps and be humanized in a way that has been especially important in a year where yellow peril fear mongering has been at an all-time high.  

History

However, MDZS’ rise in popularity among non-Chinese audiences has also come with certain difficulties. It is natural to want to take a story you love and make it your own: that’s what transformative fandom is all about. It is also natural that misunderstandings and unintentional missteps might happen when you aren’t familiar with the ins and outs of the culture and political history of the story in question. This is understandable and forgivable—perfection is impossible, even for ourselves.

We hope for consideration and respect when we give our knowledge freely and when we raise the issue of our own discomfort with certain statements or actions regarding our culture. Please remember that what is an isolated incident to you might be a pattern of growing microaggressions to us. In non-Asian spaces, Asian diaspora are often lumped together under one umbrella. In the west, a lot of Chinese diaspora attach themselves to Korean and Japanese media in order to feel some semblance of connection to a media which approximates our cultures because there are cultural similarities. This is the first time we've collectively found community around something that is actually ours, so the specificities matter.

There is a bitterness about being Asian diaspora and a misery in having to put up a united front about racial issues. Enmity towards one group becomes a danger to all of us, all while our own conflicted histories with one another continue to pass trauma down through the generations. Many of us don’t even watch anime in front of our grandparents because of that lingering cultural antipathy. When the distinctions between our cultures are muddled, it feels once again like that very fraught history is flattened and forgotten.

Without the lived experience of it, it’s hard to understand how pervasive the contradictory web of anti-Asian and, more specifically, anti-Chinese racial aggressions are and how insidious its effects are. The conflation of China the political entity (as perceived and presented by the US and Europe) with its people, culture, and diaspora results in an exhausting litany of criticism levied like a bludgeon, often by people who don’t understand the complicated nature of a situation against those of us who do.

There is often a frankly stunning lack of self-awareness re: cultural biases and blind spots when it comes to discussions of MDZS, particularly moral ones. There are countless righteous claims and hot takes on certain aspects of the story, its author, and the characters that are so clearly rooted in a Euroamerican political and moral framework that does not reflect Chinese cultural realities and experiences. Some of these takes have become so widespread they are essentially accepted as fanon.

This is a pattern of behavior within the fandom. It is not limited to any specific group, nor does it even exclude ourselves—we are, after all, not a monolith, and we should not be placed on pedestals to have our differing opinions weaponized against one another in fandom squabbles. We are not flawless in our own understandings and approaches, and we would appreciate it if others would remember this before using any of us as ultimate authorities to settle a personal score.

It is difficult not to be disheartened when enthusiastic interest crosses the line into entitled demand and when transformative work crosses into erasure, especially when the reactions to our raised concerns have so frequently been dismissive and hostile. The overwhelming cultural and emotional labor we bring to the table is often taken advantage of and then criticized in bad faith. We are bombarded with racist aggressions, micro and macro, and then met with ridicule and annoyance when we push back. Worse, we sometimes face accusations of hostility that force us to apologize, back down, and let the matter go.

When we bring up our issues, it usually seems to come with the expectation that there are other issues that should be addressed before we can address ours. It feels like it’s never really the time to talk about Asian issues.

On the internet and in fandom spaces, Western-coded media, politics and perspectives are assumed to be general knowledge and experience that everyone knows and has. It feels like a double standard that we are expected to know the ins and outs of western politics and to engage on these terms, but most non-Chinese have not even the slightest grasp of the sort of politics that are at play within our communities. We end up feeling used for our specialized knowledge and cultural background and then dismissed when our opinions and problems are inconvenient.

As the culture represented in MDZS is not a culture that most non-Chinese fans are familiar with, we’d like to remind you that you do not get to decide which parts of it are or are not important. While sharing this space with Chinese diaspora who have a close connection to the work and the painful history that goes along with being diaspora, we ask that you be mindful of listening to our concerns.

Cultural erasure is tied to a lot of intense historical and generational trauma for us that maybe isn't immediately evident: the horrors of the Pacific theatre, the far-reaching consequences of colonization, racial tensions both among ourselves and with non-Chinese etc. These are not minor or simple things, and when we talk about our issues within fandom, this is often what underlies them. This is one of the first and only places many of us have been able to find community to discuss our unique issues without feeling as if we’re speaking out of turn.

With the HK protests, COVID, the anti-Chinese platforms of the US election etc., anti-Chinese sentiment has been at the forefront of the global news cycle for some time now, and it is with complete sincerity that we emphasize once again how important MDZS fandom has been as a haven for humanizing and valuing Chinese people through cultural exchange.

Experiencing racial aggression within that space stings, not just because it’s a space we love, but because it feels like we’ve been swimming in rapidly rising racial aggression for over a year at this point.

Feelings

This is a difficult topic to broach at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. Many of us have a wariness of rocking the boat instilled in us from our upbringings, and it is not uncommon for us to feel like we should be grateful that people want to engage with something of ours at all. When we do decide to speak up, we’ve learned that there is a not insignificant chance that we’ll be turned on and trampled over because what we’ve said is inconvenient or uncomfortable. When it is already so difficult to speak up, we end up second-guessing and gaslighting ourselves into wondering whether there really was a problem at all.

We’d like to be able to share what we know about our culture and have our knowledge and experience be taken seriously and treated with courtesy. This is a beautiful, rich world built with the history of our ancestors, one that we too are trying to connect with. When we find it in ourselves to speak up about it, we would appreciate being met with consideration instead of hostility.

We don't have the luxury of stepping away from our culture when we get tired of it. We don't get to put it down and walk away when it’s difficult. But if you're not Chinese or Chinese diaspora, you get to put this book down—we'd like to kindly request that you put it down gently because of how much it matters to all of us in this fandom, regardless of heritage.

What we are asking for is reflection and thoughtfulness as we continue to engage with this work and with one another, especially with regards to how Chinese issues are positioned. When we raise issues of our own discomfort, please take a moment to reflect before reacting defensively or trying to shut us down for spoiling the fun—don’t deprioritize our concerns, especially in a fandom for a piece of Chinese media. We promise most of us are not trying to start shit for the sake of a fight. Most of the time, all we want is acknowledgement and a genuine attempt at understanding.

Our hope with this statement is to encourage more openness and understanding between diaspora and non-Chinese fans while we navigate this place that we’re sharing. Please remember that for many of us, MDZS is far more intense than a typical fandom experience. Remember that the knowledge we have and research we do is freely and happily given, and that it costs us both materially and emotionally. Please don’t take that for granted. Remember too that sometimes the reason for our discomfort may not be immediately evident to you: what seems culturally neutral and harmless might touch upon specific loaded issues for us. We ask for patience, and we ask for sincerity as we try to communicate with one another.

We are writing this because there’s a collective sense of imposed silence—that every time the newest round of discourse crops up, we often feel as if we’re walking away having created no meaningful change, and nursing new wounds that we’ll never get to address. But without speaking up about it, this is a cycle that will keep repeating.

This is not meant to shame or guilt the fandom into throwing themselves at our feet, either to thank us or beg for forgiveness—far from that. We’re just your friends and your fellow fans. We are happy to have you here, and we’re happy to create and share and play together. We just ask to be respected and heard.

Thank you. Thank you for listening. Several of us will be stepping back from twitter for a while. We’ll see you when we get back. ❤️

* A final addendum: here are two articles with solid practical advice on writing stories regarding a culture other than your own.

Cultural Appropriation for the Worried Writer: Some Practical Advice

Cultural Appropriation: Some More Practical Advice

The thread on twitter is linked in the source of this post. Thanks everyone.

[ask-jumblr]

You guys never published my question! What’s wrong with wanting to have a space for people who were born Jews? I’m not saying we shouldn’t be welcoming of converts, they just never experienced the anti-semitism growing up or the experiences of growing up Jewish.

Mod (singular) here. Yes, I didn’t post your original ask because it wasn’t consistent with this blog’s standards, although I did make a post recognizing that it was (1) sent in, and (2) didn’t meet content standards. It might be time to clarify or expand the current guidelines; anyone who thinks that’s the case is welcome to reach out. Back to your ask...I know that having a not-posted ask can sting, and I’m sorry you’ve gotten this far through life without your community providing you with the knowledge for you to understand why your proposal is inappropriate and dangerous.

I’m going to remind everyone blog is welcoming of converts. From this blog’s stance, except when there are halachic nuances followed by certain communities, converts should not be treated any differently than born Jews.

Converts don’t need to be treated any differently than born Jews (excluding those halachic nuances relevant for certain communities), because those differences you’re thinking of, anon, they’re not true for all converts. There are very few experiences that couldn’t be shared by a born Jew and a convert. Your generalizations about converts are causing fallacies in your logic. I’m including some stories below the cut that I hope will give you a more complex understanding of the breadth of experiences among people who have converted to Judaism. The stories I’m sharing are all made up, but most of the nuances, the catches that it’s easy to forget are lived experiences. Many are borrowed from friends, friends of friends, or famous Jewish figures.

You mentioned experiencing antisemitism growing up; I suspect that you’re hurting, but you will find converts who hurt for the same reasons; please don’t shut them out.

However, even besides the issue of treating converts differently (1) generally breaking custom/halacha, and (2) being pretty pointless because many will share experiences of born Jews, creating spaces that exclude converts is also dangerous. Converts, like some other groups in Jewish spaces (e.g. JoC, Jews with disabilities) already experience hostility, exclusion, and isolation in Jewish spaces. Building spaces that intentionally exclude them for some reason perpetuates the problems we need to fix in our communities.

Folks are welcome to add to or correct this response. However, I hope that my own response and the standards I’m setting about respecting converts as fellow members of the broad Jewish community will eliminate the need for me to moderate any anti-convert sentiments on this post. Another ask that I’m linkng here might be a better place to discuss the situations where converts are differentiated and/or any Jewish communities that do not recognize converts. If it’s getting another round of activity, I’m happy to reblog it again.

Jessie’s parents converted in a Modern Orthodox community when she was 3. She and her siblings, age 5 and 8, were converted along with their parents. A year later, her baby sister was born Jewish.

Brad’s father raised him celebrating Jewish holidays at home. Brad’s mom stopped being Christian long before they met, although they sometimes visited her parents and exchanged Christmas gifts under their tree. At school, Brad was bullied for being Jewish. When his mom was offered a job in a local city, Brad’s family decided it was long overdue to move to a community where they felt more welcome. In the city, Brad was able to attend a Pluralistic Jewish High School. In college, Brad’s experience with Chabad led him towards an Orthodox Jewish community, and he converted so that he would be halachically recognized as Jewish.

Melanie was adopted by a Jewish couple as an infant and was converted shortly after. For as long as she can remember, her personality has consistently clashed with her birth mother and they had a tenuous relationship. They cut ties when Melanie turned 20. Melanie doesn’t remember a time before she was Jewish. When it came time for her Bat Mitzvah at her adoptive family’s Open-Orthodox synagogue, her decision was easy to reaffirm her Judaism as a Jewish adult. When she started looking for someone to marry, her friends were surprised when they tried to set her up with a Kohen, and despite their sparks she didn’t want to go out on a second date. Until then, they hadn’t known that Melanie had converted, growing up they’d assumed her birth mother was Jewish.

Sam’s mom is Episcopalian and their dad is Jewish. They were raised with both sets of holidays, attending both a church and a Reform synagogue. However, in high school, Sam started going to youth group at a Conservative synagogue with some of their friends. They really loved the Conservative Jewish community they found at the youth group and its associated synaogue. With their parents’ support, Sam decided to convert so they would be able to count in a minyan and have aliyot at the Conservative synagogue.

Maya’s family is Jewish. While knowledge of their Jewish status was passed down, clear documentation of ketubot/gravestones/etc. was lost when they were fleeing persecution. When she wanted to get married, her fiancé’s parents wanted to ensure their grandchildren would be recognized as Jewish. Even though her fiancé was against it, they encouraged her to complete a conversion to dot i’s and cross t’s. Maya decided it was easier to complete a conversion than deal with her in-laws’ pressure. She also didn’t want her children to have to deal with the consequences of a murky Jewish status. A rabbi connected to the family quietly arranged for a conversion so the Jewishness of Maya and any children she should have would be documented and undeniable.

Josh’s dad is Jewish, but his mom isn’t. His dad didn’t raise him as Jewish and he didn’t even know he was Jewish until his mother told him when he was 15. His mother explained that his dad was a child survivor of the Holocaust, and he didn’t want his new family in the U.S. to be burdened by his Jewish identity. However, Josh didn’t feel burdened. Now, he finally understood whyn his father had suffered from nightmares and depression. During high school, Josh taught himself about Judaism behind his father’s back; he didn’t want to upset his father further. After graduating high school, Josh moved out from his parents’ house to attend nursing school. Josh joined a local Reform synagogue, where the rabbi encouraged him to complete a ‘reclamation’ conversion and helped him fill in the gaps in his Jewish education.

When she was in kindergarten, Sarah’s mom remarried, forming a blended family with a Jewish man and his two kids. Sarah’s father isn’t in her life, so she only lived with her mother and new step-father for most of her childhood. A few years after their marriage, Sarah’s mother converted through their local Reconstructionist Synagogue. However, Sarah’s mom wanted to make sure Sarah had the freedom to make her own decision. While Sarah wasn’t converted, she did celebrate Jewish holidays with her family. Shabbat was Sarah’s favorite day of the week; sometimes her family would go to synagogue, but even if they didn’t, they would make time to spend together as a family. When Sarah turned 13, she wanted to have a Bar Mitzvah like her older step-brothers. Her parents and the local rabbi encouraged her to think through her decision, and her parents offered to throw her a big 13th birthday party without her reading Torah. However, Sarah really wanted to be fully recognized as a Jewish adult in her community. A few months after she turned 13, she completed her conversion and read Torah at their synagogue for the first time.

Complicated stories like these happen all the time.