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horsedylan · 2 days ago

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Sue K- Background, Misconceptions and The Defense of.

Strap in folks, this will be a very long one. (i spent awhile on it lol, im tired)

Back in 2016 the consensus within the community towards Sue was positive. She was respected, and she gave people a gleam into what in sam hell was going on with her son, with her, etc. Then something happened. One, the great purge where a bunch of OG accounts got deleted and the shitposters (people like me :D) took over (literal defamation by shitpost), and a little while later a horrible video from the youtuber timmy2cents got published and went viral. It appeared well researched and produced but it was anything but. A good amount of hate for Sue came from this video, and I do believe played 100% a part of the narrative souring towards her.

I dislike timmy2cents with a fruity passion (he’s worth far less than that) . The absolute permanent damage he has done to the discussion surrounding a kind, and gentle grieving mother is deplorable.

He has somehow almost outdone Dave Cullen as far as mischaracterization goes, and subsequent damage.. And has had the same childish response to boot.

Before you read the rest of this: if you were one of the millions of poor unfortunate souls that consumed this timmy2cents video and take issue with Sue’s TedTalk. There are TWO must watch videos I encourage you to consume. You have been fed LIES. (That and it’s actually quite interesting to look at how tricky well produced propaganda can be to spot.)

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This entire thing has been sparked by so much outsider discourse where people parrot information directly from that timmy2cents video resulting in such insightful comments that insinuate she takes no accountability for what happened, and that she should “rot in hell” that she’s an “evil bitch”, that she used her son’s death for profit, that she excuses what he did (she doesn’t), that she’s a narcissist (be wary of anyone thats insistent on the narcissist label btw) etc. Repeating the same arguments from the timmy2cents video. He made the argument that this incredibly, permanently traumatized VICTIM of Columbine was a narcissist, and has now convinced millions of people of the same conclusion based on flimsy evidence. Also im not even going to address Todd Grande’s video on her regardless of his opinions whether they match mine (doubtful) or if he stays in his character. He’s not a good resource for psychology and he’s a known misogynist. If you watch him I encourage you to unsubscribe. He is way out of depth.

So anyway I wanted to make a post regarding Miss Sue and common misconceptions regarding her, or defences for problems people typically have with her.

Also feel free to copy and paste or otherwise steal and save any sort of info/argument post i have and repost it as your own (or link it to someone to shut them up.) I honestly don’t even care (especially if I get nuked) Fuck, any of my shit really. Take it, idc.

A Brief Background of Sue Klebold.

This information for Sue's background comes from Jeff Kass' book. I am not the biggest fan of the guy, his information is very good but in my books he is far too aggressive, rude (why'd you do Robyn dirty Jeff), and accusatory for my taste, so we shall semi respectfully/disrespectfully take this information and leave.

(Dylan's grandpa and grandma)

Leo Yassenoff, her grandfather (though not related by blood) was an activist for jewish rights/causes, and was an athlete. There is a Jewish Community Centre in Ohio named after him. Her father Milton Rice Yassenoff and his adopted brother Abner were adopted from The Jewish Infants Home in Columbus. Milton was born in Toledo, Ohio in 1919 and was of Russian descent. Leo passes away in 1971 of renal failure (two months after Tom and Sue marry), at the age of 88, he chooses to donate most of his 13-14 million dollar fortune to charity. Abner kills himself in the 1940's though a death certificate hasn't been located according to Kass.

Milton was an army man and served in World War 2. Once he came back he met his wife and Sue's mother Charlotte Haugh who grew up in small-town Ohio. This description of Sue's mother Charlotte is from Sue's eventual stepbrother Charles Huelsman the Third and is as follows; "Soft, diplomatic, a terribly nice person. Social, charitable, loving, concerned, empathic, real giving person, really tried to raise her kids well.”

Charolette would convert to Judaism, they belonged to the reform Temple Israel but are described as hardly attending. In total of biological children, Charolette and Milton would have three (in respective order); Diane Elizabeth, Susan Frances, and Philip Leo. Sue was 18 years old at the time of her father's passing of uremia. This sudden passing of her father at such a young age would pave for severe anxiety to come. Sue's mom would die of cardiac arrest in 1987 at 65.

Sue herself was born on March 25, 1949 and attended the private Columbus School for Girls from grades 1 through 12. Sue was involved in a number of extracurriculars throughout her time here. She was assistant art editor of the school paper, Silhouette, and art editor the next year. She was also art editor of TOPKNOT, the yearbook. She was involved in Scroll, the literary magazine that included art, stories, and poetry. She was in the art club, I’Pittori, along with the Latin club. She took photos for the school newspaper as well. An old classmate of Sue's mentions she and her sister Diane were quiet. Another described her as a private person.

She graduates from here the same year her father died in 1967. She then enrolled in Knox College but it didn't last, she left in 1969 to go back home to her mother. She sought counselling with pop psychologist (derogatory) Hugh Missildine, to deal with the intense anxiety her father's death had caused her.

Susan Yassenoff, shows up in his 1974 book co-authored with Lawrence Galton, Your Inner Conflict - How to Solve Them. Sue apparently appears under the pseudonym “Sandra,” This wasn't enough to stop the bloodhound Jeff Kass. Despite being under a pseudonym for a reason. He figures out who "Sandra" really is and makes a phone call. “I came across your profile in the Hugh Missildine book.” he says when Sue answers the phone. "What?” she said. “Yeah,” I reply, “in the, it was a few, quite a few years ago, the profile you had as Sandra.” “I think you are way out of base here, I’m going to hang up now,” Susan says.

Her lawyer, criminal defense attorney Gary Lozow, quickly called an intermediary. Lozow called it a matter that occurred when Susan Klebold was nineteen, however nothing ever comes of this as Sue seemingly leaves it alone after the fact.

Here is the copy paste of Sue's profile from the book:

Sandra is a twenty-year-old woman who came to see me because of a phobia. “I have a death phobia,” she told me. “It underlines everything I do. I think about death all the time.” She is a music student, about to graduate from college, has been living for the past year with her fiancé and is very much in love with him, as he is with her. He too is in music. When I asked her to talk about herself, she told me: “I’m afraid of failure. I won’t even attempt something unless I’m assured of success. I think too much. I don’t have a temper. “War things and medical programs bother me. I was terrified of bugs as a child. Airplanes used to bother me, too, and storms. My mother used to cuddle me and comfort me when I was fearful. When I was afraid, my sister would call me stupid. I scold myself for being afraid. I often feel that I’m a burden to people. I sometimes get depressed. “I think the fear of death will always be there. I wish I could turn off this part of my mind. I wish there were traumas to explain all this, but I’ve never had any traumas. When I get a headache, I’m always sure it is fatal. Then I worry that I will die, which makes the headache worse. Everything makes me think of death. I have to divert myself in the evening constantly—by eating, watching television, practicing my music or masturbating. I feel constantly that I’m coming a minute closer to death. What a waste of time to think of that all the time. But thinking this is a way of life with me.”

Questioned about her family, Sandra told me that her father had been a sensitive, sweet person who enjoyed doing things for her and whom she adored. He had died suddenly just before she had graduated from high school. Her mother?

“A saint—a real saint,” Sandra said. “She is kind, patient, never critical. When I was at home, my mother always enjoyed doing things for me and giving me things.” Here, then, is a young woman who came from a loving home, who is in love and is loved in return, who is bright, is intelligent, is attractive, has a deep interest in music and yet is an emotional cripple. Why should she suffer so much from, and devote so much of her attention to, an almost overpowering fear of death?

I'll spare you his pop psychology explanation for why she feels this way as anyone with half a brain can figure out why she is so terrified of death given the traumatic event she experienced a few years prior. I'll leave the important bits in though.

Sandra decided to do what her fiancé had long urged: get married. She became so busy with the wedding plans that, she told me in some surprise, she was thinking less and less about her fears. She still tends to slip back occasionally into old, indulgent, self-critical ways and to become a little fearful, but she can quickly abort the relapses.

Sue and Tom marry in 1971 on July 1st by a Rabbi. She graduates in 1972 with a masters in art education and a minor in psychology. They move to Milwaukee and she gets a job in the Milwaukee Psychiatric Hospital as an art therapy intern for adults. She then became a psychiatric art therapist at St. Michael Hospital. In 1975, she enrolls in Milwaukee’s Cardinal Stritch College for a master’s degree in reading. She works while in grad school, often in elementary schools. Her jobs included special education teacher’s aide and reading specialist. For about a year, she worked on a government program to help disadvantaged youths at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee. (Kass, pg. 40-49)

Misconceptions about/Defense of Sue Klebold (Warning, An Incredibly Compassionate Defense Ahead.)

This section is going to act as a sort of heavily opinionated FAQ. I don't know if it's the best way to do things but I think if anything it makes it more simple?

All of the following screenshots are from a mother's reckoning.

"She profited off D's death" Nope, wrong. She didn't, every single cent from her book was donated to suicide prevention charities. She didn't make money off of the Ted Talk either. And fuck it even if she did I wouldn't care. Her bonehead son made a fucking mess for her, she might as well get something from it other than trauma and heartbreak. But she didn't. So. (https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/how-much-has-the-book-by-the-mother-of-a-columbine-killer-raised-for-charity)

"She bought him the trench coat" Okay Diane Sawyer, relax with your puritan ways. it was a coat not a glock. Next you'll criticize her for letting him play video games.

"D asked her for a gun for Christmas." She thought he was joking. According to Devon Adams, he had a dark sense of humour, and according to Sue he had a habit of asking her for ludicrous things when Christmas came around. She thought it was just another one of those things. She asked him why and he said target practice. It is not unreasonable. That family was known for being anti gun, their neighbours had them in the house and Sue refused to have them (despite the fact that it was deemed culturally acceptable to do so), so I'd probably interpret it as a ludicrous request from my son to get a rise out of me. Is it weird? Sure if you want to reach fine.

Also…Boys like guns? Like go into your local toy store, look at what you find. Those guns with the red parts that crack? Water guns? Nerf guns? Plenty of boys seriously ask for guns for Christmas too and get air soft instead even now in the current year, it was probably even more normalized in the 90's where they were fucking making pipe bombs on the regular. Seriously, I swear half of that school was cooking up pipe bombs its actually insane.

I'm just gonna point this out but plenty of boys under 18 (specifically 12-17) in Canada ask their parents to let them get their FAL because its not exactly the most shocking thing for them to be firearm trained.

"Why didn't Sue make D do therapy" Because what she thought she knew about D at the time was that he was a self sufficient guy who was striving to be independent as he approached adulthood, she trusted him, and D took advantage. The...mediator? That was in the room with them asked him how he felt about therapy, and he blatantly fucking lied and said "I'll prove to you I'm fine." Sue respected his input. A lot of you may make the complaint of "Oh well she should have made him do it" and while I do understand the sentiment I'm going to put it out there, being forced into therapy often makes it worse. We see that a lot in this community too.

Also E's family got him a therapist and guess what? It didn't do a damn thing to stop what happened. (I personally think the reaction to the van incident was a bit overblown in of itself. Teenage boys do dumb stuff constantly it doesn't mean they need therapy. Like, back in the day I broke into a church and completely fucking trashed the place with friends. I was so embarrassed and remain so even now, and yet I didn't need therapy nor did I go on to hurt people after being caught.)

A bit of a side note with E's therapy, You can have the best therapist in the world, if you aren't interested in the goal of getting better or in Dylan's case you are so prideful to reject all help (while simultaneously complaining about no one helping you i'll add) therapy won't do a damn thing. Neither will medication. Both therapy and Luvox are safe and beneficial (there are some detractors which is fine but this ain't about them) for individuals with a vested interest in self improvement, but Eric was disinterested in having a future being alive and was more preoccupied with his infamy. He liked the aesthetic of violence and the illusion of power being "crazy" gave him (like when he lied about being schizophrenic in his AOL bio) so he abused his medication to further that end instead of taking it how it was advised with the end goal of getting better. If anything I think Eric was honestly more likely to respond to a good and proper therapist before he became more interested in infamy and death than life, more so than Dylan, not because he was less prideful (he most certainly wasn't) but because he was far more external with his emotions than Dylan (Until Dylan blew his top that is). That's pretty helpful in a therapeutic environment.

So to say it wouldn't have helped if she did get D into therapy. I obviously can only give my opinion but if Eric didn't respond, I doubt someone so sensitive to embarrassment and internal like Dylan would fair any better. But again, this is just my own opinion. I think what D needed was another Zack Heckler. Not a therapist, but a friend who was emotionally intelligent. He found his emotional outlet in Eric once Zack became preoccupied with Devon, and both of them stoked each others rage and marinated in it together as some sort of bonding and coping ritual. I think Zack was the one keeping it in check.

Zack heckler had issues similar to Dylan. According to Sarah Slater he and Dylan would cry about these things on the phone together. Devon came into the picture and I think changed Zack for the better, I believe this convinced Dylan that his antidote for his depression was a soulmate. In a way he isn't wrong. Perhaps I'm an optimist but I do think having physical contact from a girl that loved him (not necessarily anything sexual) would have helped him immensely (eric too, no matter how much emphasis he put on just sex). Sue mentioned he was a sensitive, physically affectionate child after all. I don't think this fact ever changed.

"She blames E for the entire thing and makes D into the innocent victim" This one is a lot more complex but the short of it is ehhh..Maybe? No? Yes? Maybe? Sometimes? No. Yes..? The long of it is;

She was always going to be somewhat biased. This book is about her son after all. She knew her son. Carried him, loved him, etc. Her understanding of her son's culpability has been a journey through shit lake with no boat to speak of. A journey that she had to endure while she was heavily traumatized bear in mind. That is what A Mother's Reckoning is all about. She has come a long way in her understanding in 1999 to 2016 when the book was released.

She does not play pretend with Dylan’s involvement but rather has a more biased empathetic/sympathetic view of her own flesh and blood and his potential motives, nor does she excuse him for what he has done (no matter what your average redditor thinks of her and her tedtalk) but rather wishes to understand HOW he got to the place he did. I think it is closer to say she flipflops, she is lost, she doesn’t have an inkling as to what Eric’s motives were, the extent of any sort of pain he carried, his family life, and that she heavily mischaracterizes who he was as person and his motives, due to meddling "professionals" while accepting her son as a willing participant.

When it first happened she was in a state of traumatized denial. She was clinging to every bit of hope that her son wasn't some bloodthirsty killer. She describes the time she heard of these like…military mind control tapes that EH's parents had in their house, and in the throes of grief entertained that perhaps D was brainwashed by these tapes by EH.

On top of that, Judy Brown showed her E's website AFTER the shooting. AFTER, not before, AFTER. ( a lot of people shit on her saying she knew about it and did nothing but again, not true). This was also before she saw the BT's and also before D's journal got released to her in 2006 (I think it was 2006?) Then she saw the basement tapes and could no longer deny Dylan's culpability/cruelty in the act.

But what did she have to go off of at the time? The website, the time that Eric verbally abused Dylan for being bad at soccer, and Dylan just standing there and taking it.

Sue knew Eric + his parents sure, and had him around a few times, but did not know him very well. His parents did not come forward to humanize him to the public so she was just about in the dark as everyone else.

Then something else happened to add to the character assasination of Eric. In 2009 a book was published by "author" Dave Cullen called Columbine. He touted this book as the ultimate authority on Columbine, himself as an expert on the event that spent years researching it. So many places schools and universities alike use his book as gospel for studying the event. It characterized Eric as a womanizing psychopath who was intrinsically evil (paraphrasing). It hyper-fixates and waters Dylan down to a lost puppy wrapped up in Eric's scheme and charisma. Cullen was not the only person to characterize him as a psychopath either, so so many "professionals" and "experts" from psychologists to FBI agents, wanted their moment in the spotlight and came forward to say the same thing. When Sue went looking for answers and consultation for her book, she went to the experts and professionals, because that is simply what you do. This is some of what these "professionals" advised Sue about Eric and Dylan, not Sue, but the professionals;

(The above quote is from Andrew fucking Solomon, I do not assign him as much malice in his focus but he certainly had such an influence on Sue so much so that he spent time in their house.)

The biggest issue with Sue Klebold ultimately isn't Sue Klebold. Dave Cullen and the others mentioned before took advantage of and capitalized on a incredibly traumatized and grieving mother who wanted answers as to why her little boy who she dearly loved did what he did, Dave Cullen put himself in the front of the dialogue to further his name, authority and narrative. We don't know what he told her, but its almost a for sure thing that he advised her on all the "research" he did on Eric's person as it almost perfectly matches up to what is presented. There was no one else to accurately advise her on this matter. She could have turned to Kass for a basic idea (sort of), but again, but he was also limited due to the lack of parental interviews (apart from the one he got from Eric's dad where he followed him into a bathroom.), and he hadn't exactly been non aggressive with Sue. No, he burned that bridge. She wanted nothing to do with him and I do not blame her.

(fuck you Dave)

She did not come up with what she said earlier on her own to throw Eric under the bus.. If you have that many professionals telling you time and time again that he was a psychopath, you are going to take absorb it. If she ignored what the professionals told her at the time, she would once again be deemed a narcissist;

"Oh, you think you know better than handfuls of psychologists and experts? Wow Sue you're so narcissistic thinking you're smarter than everyone else." Yeah. Like Anne Marie Hocchalter's father states, she was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and the people who never went through what they did like to criticize her and pretend they are superior when they aren't. (https://zhawkeitsbeensaid.blogspot.com/2016/02/sue-klebold-what-were-you-thinking.html)

I even feel bad for the Harrises here as well because these same glory seeking professionals that convinced Sue Eric was the ringleading psychopath (sort of?ish?), also convinced them that the son they loved (and yes I'm sure despite Wayne's problems he still loved Eric) that their son was some psychopath who didn't share in that love. I think that is honestly fucking evil. Like as far as Dave Cullen goes, he didn't just write a book with fake information and a false narrative and advertised it as truth to the public, he also provided fake advice and information to a grieving mother and misrepresented it as truth. The absolute audacity man.

I think people forget that the families of school shooters have been severely traumatized, while they demand answers with a shocking amount of entitlement, resentment and hostility. And unlike the families of the shooters direct victims, they do not have the same supports they can rely on. and they are constantly being attacked by residents of the community, the media, etc. It takes years for them to heal to, on top of coming to an understanding of the why. People can get mad about Wayne not getting E from the lawyer after his cremation (and I do understand why they'd be pissed) but he was angry. *His boy killed people*, lied to him and his wife. But trauma guides our responses to things, it may not make sense for us who are privileged enough to not be in their position but its good practice to understand this simple fact.

(^These psychologists should follow the things they say more closely. The one thing I can agree with them on.)

If anything, I'd say if you take into account some of her interviews as well as her book it seems she, in her own mind, goes back and forth from neutral to biased. Its interesting but you can see a glimpse of her uncertainty regarding Eric here where she makes note of BOTH of their suicidality, though to what extent Eric was depressed and the coping mechanisms he had she doesn’t know to the fullest extent because again, she cannot humanize or understand Eric. (Also in some long since lost interviews I can no longer find she mentions how she cannot presume to know what exactly was wrong with him. I wish I could find them but its been awhile.)

She cannot champion Eric. She is not his mother nor his father. I’m sorry but if you’re the type to hate Sue for this (or any of the people involved here like Devon) you need to have a reality check. Ah yes. Endless compassion for the two boys that needlessly stole the lives of their classmates but absolutely fucking none for the innocents traumatized permanently for their deeds. 90% of the time its people partial to their romanticized version of Eric doing it too, and its just annoying lol (not people who like Eric, there is a difference.)

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"She didn't separate E and D" She did separate them initially, but Kathy H begged her not to do this. And why? Because she didn't want to isolate Eric. That's one of the worst things you can do for someone struggling is take away some form of social support.

Also, how do you separate two kids who go to the same school. Do you yank the one out in the middle of a school year and get them acquainted to a brand new school? Do you understand that that is one of the worst fucking things for child/teen development. That's part of the reason E was so fucked up in the first place.

"She didn't search his room" Yes she did, she stopped really doing it the further he got into senior year and stated that D was what, less than a month from graduating from high school and going to college, you have to let go of the reigns at some point (paraphrasing).

"She kicked Byron out"

No, watch Miorby's video. She didn't.

"She pushed him up against the fridge" So? Oh no a mother parents her son. It is completely normal for a parent to be hurt that her almost adult son forgot mother's day, on top of the van incident and being blatantly disrespectful she wanted to make a point that he was being a brute. She didn't body slam him lol. She put her hand on his stomach and held him there by the shoulder and gave him a lecture because he wasn't pulling his weight.

Despite me defending her here, she regrets not asking him what was up and wishes she knew what was up. But genuinely ask yourself, Dylan, who oh so loved lying to people, would he tell her the truth? She asked him multiple times before if he was okay and he LIED to her every fucking time.

"She downplayed Dylan's role in the van incident with her answers in that one form when describing what Dylan did to get arrested" No she didn't. I'm not gonna even explain this one to you, that claim is pure body/handwriting expert pseudoscience reaching. Watch Miorby's video's linked above if you care about this genuinely I'm not interested in "debating" you.

"How did she not know, the signs were there" Because she didn't. What warning signs do you speak of? D took painstaking effort to go out of his way to hide things from her and lie. There were no warning signs at the time because in order for something to be a warning sign, it has to be an acknowledged recognized sign to begin with, this wasn't such a thing in the 90's, I think its not a stretch to say a lot of the dialogue regarding mental health was coasting off the remains of the satanic panic. A lot of you are using the information of today to address an event that happened 26 years ago. Mental health care was not mainstream, it was not something parents addressed on the regular, if anything EH parents were closer to the norm than DK's. People cannot know what they don't. People will not know things that there is very little information on, if any at all.

Mental health and mental health care was barely existent, especially for men. Nope. No forget about it. Know the "my dad's gonna send me of to military school" gag? Or the old "Stop crying or i'll give you something to cry about" That was their therapy. I would really love to know how the conversation between E's parents and him went, regarding a therapist for E, I doubt Wayne handled it well.

This is ultimately why a society that makes this information incredibly accessible and integral to parenting is NECESSARY. Not fucking shoving it into the back of a closet and pretending it doesn't exist or making it some moral issue. And this is exactly what Sue is trying to do with the work she has done. People cannot know what they don't know, what has been shoved into a closet by a puritan Christian place like America/Littleton. That's the whole point of awareness campaigns. If you're still not convinced, go read what Anne Marie's father has to say about "warning signs".

You are placing an expectation of perfection onto a extremely traumatized human being. I am not saying she did not make errors, but you cannot live without making errors, and you cannot recognize them as mistakes as they are happening because that would be having hindsight 20/20 vision., It is literally impossible. She didn't hand him a gun, she tried to raise him with empathy. She was a better mother than my own.

"But she educated in Mental Health!" Sue Klebold was (sorry) barely a mental health professional. She was a therapeutic art teacher. Kass says art therapist but its more or less the same.. I'm not trying to be rude here, but that is basically meaningless when we are talking about being capable of recognizing warning signs. Like, I have actual background in psych as an industry, I've been getting education in it since I was in grade 10. (I took all my necessary psych courses but didn't want to waste money on a fucking French requirement) What I can tell you is that both her status as a therapeutic art teacher and her minor in psych is worthless as far as identifying warning signs in the 90's go. They are not responsible for diagnostics.

"She doesn't address gun control" You know this is actually really interesting. There were a few instances of mentioning gun control, one was a video interview breakfast conference with Sue back in 2018ish, a sort of blink and you'll miss. She mentioned that she does have an issue with how accessible guns were and are, but was terrified of the NRA. I do not blame her here and I think it speaks volumes of how terrifying those people are and the fucking blood on their hands (I'm not here to debate with gun nuts, i'm not anti gun so save it.)

"She says brain health" Omg…I get the joke but if you're serious. who the fuck cares? She's an old lady who grew up in a time where mental illness was seen as a severe negative moral failing and she doesn't want to inadvertently make it harder for people to seek out mental health treatment for fear of being seen as a crazy "mental case". This difficulty is what killed her son. Do I agree with her choice of terminology? No in fact I think its counterproductive (sorta).

BUT honestly, ya'll who say this seriously, sound like this lol

"She ignored Dylan when she heard him crying" No she didn't. this is a conflation of two events. I posted about this before, go look.

"How did she not notice his weight loss" She did, and she responded by offering him extra food between meals.

Dylan was a really tall guy, when you are a very tall teenage guy, you often look borderline anorexic no matter the amount you eat, and I recognize he lost weight but if I was bearing witness to it in real life I doubt i'd notice. I don't think it was as severe as people say too. They cite D's driver's license but that was certainly a guess on his part, he didn't weigh that much in 1997-98.

Your metabolism is fast, and you've got a lot of body that inherently makes you lose weight quick. Brooks Brown looked just as scrawny back then. Also eating disorders (I doubt he had one but regardless) were barely recognized for women back then, if anything it was encouraged (tuberculosis chic anyone lol) But for men? Forget it. It wasn't a thing. It's barely recognized as a problem now. If something isn't a thing or seen as a problem then chances are, you, a non researcher, won't know about it.

"But Randy Brown dislikes Sue's book and calls her book full of lies." Randy Brown dislikes Sues book and calls it a book of lies for a variety of reasons; none of them good. One is because Sue believes Dylan killed himself. Randy hates Eric Harris with a fruity passion and he thinks he murdered Dylan. He doesn't think there was mental illness present in either of them (obviously he's wrong lol). So does his creepy son Brooks Brown for that matter. Randy Brown as far as I'm concerned is a narcissist just like his son (Yes, I just told you to be wary of anyone who uses this label but know I do no use it because of sexism, but rather a long documented history involving himself in something that ultimately has nothing to do with him, if you want to criticize me for it fine.), who has placed himself in front of someone who was directly involved in this case and started speaking over her as an authority figure. He acts like he's some sort of expert on Dylan but no. Anytime you ask him for this secret bit of evidence he says he has, he refuses to provide it. He isn't an expert on Dylan.

(I understand these are 4 years old but he doesn't change his mind often)

Also Sue seems to have not regarded the relationship between Judy and herself as close as the Brown's like to portray. I think this reddit user summed it up better than I could

If Sue believed Randy's hypothesis about Eric people would still call her a narcissist too. Same thing with whole focusing on bullying as a cause that Randy has. She really is backed into a corner.

"She doesn't want the BT's to be released" This is another reason why Randy dislikes her. Let's do a little thought exercise shall we. When D did what he did the entire world pointed the finger at Sue. Half of the BT's were just the two boneheads thinking of every slur and going off, drooling on themselves and encouraging others to do the same.

Most professionals agree that it would inspire more shootings. Even in Canada we have a BSU (behavioral science unit) who advises against the release of this sort of material and had this happen similarly in 2019. Whether or not I agree or you do is irrelevant here (not that it matters, JeffCo releasing the cafeteria footage made this entire thing pointless anyway) If you are in her shoes, and the entire world blames you for the shooting, and professionals are telling you the release of these tapes would inspire others to take more lives in the name of your son, would you want them released? Probably not.

"She kept her hair appointment" So? Her son just went out and killed others and then himself. Would you want to be sitting at the breakfast table alone, looking at the place your son used to sit and its fucking empty? She was having panic attacks and was terrified of being alone. One of the worst things you can do when you've been traumatized like that is being alone, the presence of others is helpful. If you can't understand that…like…I can't help you here.

She was preoccupied with the junior photo thing Yeah I don't really have a defence for this but can only empathize and call others to do the same. I think she was an anxiety perfectionist. Given the outlined anxiety we went over above I don't think this is as surprising. She regrets it everyday. Again, this didn't drive D into doing what he did.

"What About the Laptop Stealing?" You know I'm not convinced Tom told her that happened. I have always gotten the impression that Tom gave Dylan this sense of accountability avoidance, imo the guy kind of comes off with an air of ego (I wonder if that's why D showed some distancing from his dad). Even when D got involved in that locker incident, he sends D out so he can deal with this for him? Weird. Also even if she did I think it is unreasonable for you to expect her to bring up every happening of D's life. A bit of kleptomania doesn't mean they're gonna kill someone.

"She didn't notice him SH" Dylan was such an interesting critter that he chose his hands to do it on. We don't know how often he did it but regardless of frequency I doubt anyone would notice. It's one of those "its so stupid its smart" deals. They had cats and bird, My brain would automatically assume it was cat scratches or a bird bite.

"She sometimes calls it Eric's plan"

We don't know who came up with it first, some mistakenly believe it was 100% Dylan as he started journalling first before Eric. But we don't know, it was probably at the same time, Either way. Silly yes, but 100% due to again the advisement of malicious professionals.

“She only does it for image” nah. The world pointed the finger and blamed her. It asked how this happened. She answered to the best of her ability and found healing in her work.

She wasn’t a public figure she could have stayed in the dark, private like the Harrises but she didn’t. Her image is constantly being called a narcissist every 5 seconds despite being a wonderful person. She’s in a unique position and decided to become a force for good.

“Oh well who cares we’re tcc so we can be immoral its stupid to care about morality so ill shit on victims if i want” A lot of people in this community are genuinely wonderful people. You aren’t inherently immoral for being here. If you want to use your presence here as a crutch and an excuse for you to continue to be a shitty fucking person that's your business. Your insistence of a lack of morality is still an insistence of a certain kind of morality, you just don’t like the one where you get judged as an a hole. Get over yourself.

"She said to that one person she has nothing to apologize for after they said i forgive you" as far as the shooting goes, she doesn't. Her son is not her.

"Why do so many people call the mothers of perpetrators narcissists?" Watch this from 1:29:00-1:60:00 ish. It also has some interesting bits about Ed Gein and the problem with the normie true crime types (not us).

youtube

Conclusion 1/Normie Public Reaction/TedTalk (sort of)

They complain that she makes Dylan sympathetic. What is the alternative? They demonize him into a monster that is so beyond human that people can continue writing off the human warning signs that make up a mass shooter? We complain so often here that people demonize far too often. And I agree so I’m grateful that she has spent so much time trying to counteract the “Demon” narrative (even with Eric, she speaks in a pathological manner, rather than some monster sense.)

Dylan was person who was clearly dearly loved, he lived his short life as a very sensitive suicidal person who turned apathetic and homicidal. If he doesn’t care about his own life its not exactly shocking he doesn’t care about hurting strangers (I do genuinely think they mentally blocked out any image of hurting their friends and tried not to dwell on it.)

I think its well within her right to emphasize that he was a person. He was a person that was loved, that loved others.

The world pointed the finger at the parents, and criticized them further and implied their guilt when they were met with silence by them. The biggest question people had was “How did YOU not know”.

So she responded on how, on what she missed so parents don’t make the same mistake. She emphasizes she was not abusive nor was her husband. She has every right to do this as everyone accused her of being abusive. She has every right to defend herself.

Sue Klebold is every high horse “i’m better than you” parent or person’s worst nightmare. She tells you that your perfect teenagers can be depressed, she tells you of the normalized signs of teenage depression that drove her son to kill others and then himself.

She tells you of his human traits; how loving he was as a little boy, peering into her eyes to see if she was healing after a nasty eye infection and crafting her an imperfect Get Well i love you Pegasus as a present to make her feel well, how smart he was counting pinto beans on the floor at 3.

She shows you that it is a human being that commits these acts, not some inhuman demon that is the offspring of a demon. The insistence of anything other then that is copeium. It is a self soothing tactic of “this can’t happen to me, i’m such a great parent”

And she shows her profound love for him, even now. Emphasizing his humanity in a sea of people saying he was a soulless deranged monster.

Despite what he did she collected him like a precious treasure, accompanying him to his cremation despite clearly not wanting him to be cremated (fuck people who desecrate graves by the way) making sure he got a funeral, then spending the rest of her life trying to understand why he did what he did. Throwing herself into a callous, vicious public eye to try to make it up to her son despite him being dead for over a decade when she first came out publicly.

She isn’t a narcissist, she isn’t evil. She isn’t a b*tch. She is a lovely human being who has been through severe trauma. She loved Dylan. Dylan loved her. I know she doubts that. But he clearly did, even when he was about to “leave” he tried to offer her a comfort in the last tape (no matter how churlish it was) telling her he was going to a better place.

I find it unfortunate that Eric's parents couldn't do the same for him so all we have about him are what the careless professionals have to say about him.

Conclusion 2

If anything, this is a lesson in why society must be aware of psychological problems and the variety of ways they manifest and who they can manifest in. A society that makes this information incredibly accessible and integral to parenting is NECESSARY. Not fucking shoving it into the back of a closet and pretending it doesn't exist or making it some moral issue. It is also a lesson in the danger of a culture that is based on domination and hierarchy instead of one that embraces empathy and compassion, both in the extended real world but also in an academic setting (a school culture that treats its athletes with reverence for instance). Bullying had its place in cause but I don't think it's the #1 factor, not by a long shot. I guarantee Isiah Shoels had it worse than those two. Kyle Velasquez too. A bunch of others who had it worse. They didn't do anything to hurt anyone, they didn't plan a shooting. Neither did the 2000 others in that school. Sure they thought of it from time to time, but at the end of the day they didn't, and E+D did. I believe there is something that exists as a fragile foundation that primes certain people for violence. And if you add bullying onto it and ease of access to firearms and normalizing the making of bombs and a friendship with this sort of mutuality, it knocks everything over like a deck of cards. D+E had severe pride issues, and entitlement issues by the end of their lives (as an example, Harris blaming the shooting on the women who turned him down, as if he was entitled to them?), I think most of it stemming from their young age they had an inherent ego centrism to both of them that they probably would have grown out of had they lived to see 25. Like part of the reason D and E were so mad is not just because they were bullied, its because they were at the bottom of the hierarchy which is why they went after freshmen once they aged out of that demographic D even says he wanted what the jocks have (while saying he doesn't lol). E too though indirectly. Both boys prioritized an aesthetic of violence and revenge. I do think this is part of the reason why boys/men are more prone into doing this sort of thing, and being external and blamey about their problems too (not that women are incapable of violence, but the rates of Men vs women aren't even close and they are far more external.). Violence is apart of their socialization blueprint/archetype which is why so many of them are obsessed with media displays of violence that is rewarded with power. Bullying demasculinizes them. Damaged masculinity "redeems" itself through violence. It is the ultimate "Now you see me". D+E went from bottom of the barrel to…I don't want to call them icons. But they certainly solidified themselves into history as we're still talking about them 26 years later.

Anyway, I don't know, I guess I just get a kick out of people who have endless amounts of compassion for two murderers, but absolutely none for the family that loved them very dearly. If you're one of the people gleefully slobbering over yourself about how much you hate Sue and how you can't wait until she dies (yes, I have seen this way too many times here) that's fine, have your weird tantrum. You are just another one of those people that hates on victims, and you're certainly not morally justified.

It feels hippy dippy to say, but I find myself wanting their to be some sort of kind merciful god out there that grants all of us inner peace and reunification, so so badly. I don't believe in any sort of afterlife, but I pray Sue's passing is a gentle one, and I hope she gets to see Dylan again, I really do. For both of their sake.