#if sua and ivan can get one so can he

[ingridgh0st]

The Ivan R6 flashback and the tiny MiziTill one at the end are a fucking punch in the guts

[liquidstar]

who's ready for a repeat of the heartbreak of round 1?

[cool-island-songs]

Analysis of ALNST Character Relationship Metrics

My art book won't be here for a minute, but I ran some screenshots I saw on twt through an image translator and have a lot of thoughts:

TILL: Despite claiming to hate everyone in the world, Till ranks Ivan at 70% intimacy even as he identifies perturbing behaviors of Ivan's going back years and refers to him as "a bother". He also ranks Sua at 10% in spite of having little to say about her and finding it uncomfortable to be around her.

Though he postures at being misanthropic and has all the manners you'd expect of a boy who was half off at the human child pound, he's actually quite gentle and sensitive. This is reflected in one of the graduation messages he's left by a classmate as well:

The person he feels closest to is an unattainable crush, and someone who doesn't feel that close with him in return, likely because he's too shy to really approach her or carry on a conversation.

MIZI: That's Mizi, of course, who's rather childlike and naive initially. She likes everyone, but since Till chokes when he tries to speak to her and often keeps his distance, she wonders if he's avoiding her because he dislikes her.

Mizi gravitates towards people who she sees as "perfect", which is how she describes Ivan and Sua in her graduation message to Ivan:

She doesn't see the darker side of Ivan's personality (which has been described on several occasions, even by himself, as "twisted") because he's attractive, successful, and helpful to her.

Though she likes everyone, Sua is her "God", and the only thing that can keep them apart is the tragedy of their situation, which forces Mizi to grow up in a brutally painful way.

SUA: Sua is far less idealistic and naive than Mizi, and has clearly thought about sacrificing herself to save Mizi, since Ivan picks on her for thinking of doing so in an official comic. Accordingly, her feelings about Mizi are far more tinged by the knowledge that they will one day be torn apart by external circumstances. She laments that reciprocating her feelings will one day cause Mizi great pain.

She's always been more somber, and despite her surface similarities to Ivan (which he notes in a follow-up comic wherein he realizes he was wrong about Sua's feelings for Mizi being unrequited), she's quite different on the inside. Sua's more sensitive and thus her colder exterior serves to protect her, whereas Ivan's outward persona creates an illusion of normalcy that doesn't reflect his reality.

Sua views Ivan and Till as a threat and a nuisance, respectively. Like Till, she senses something strange about Ivan, and when it comes to Till, it's just one person too many around for her. This is fascinating to me, because I thought she might pity Till! Her feelings about Ivan were already pretty clear from this panel of the 'piggyback' comic, and she seems deeply hurt in the first comic linked by his prodding.

IVAN: For his part, Ivan is fascinated by Till even though he's content to sit back and observe, pestering him to get a reaction or his attention for a brief time. He doesn't expect anything in return but wants more than anything to be on Till's mind (hence behaviors like stealing Till's belongings and returning them to him, pretending he had found them).

He prefers Sua to Mizi despite his awareness that Sua doesn't particularly like him, seeing her as a sister and even telling her she's "twisted" like he is. He likes Mizi well enough, especially her sincerity, but seems to find her optimism a bit much at times.

The fact that Mizi and the others would likely consider Ivan and Mizi quite close while Ivan does not reflects how much he postures even in his closest relationships. He struggles to connect with those he's most compelled by and it's not clear if he really wants to.

Some Ivantill thoughts before I go:

There seems to be a common sentiment that it's tragic Till was unable to see how much Ivan loved him, and I think we'll likely get more of Till's perspective on Ivan and their relationship in round 7. But it may not be the case that Ivan even wanted his true feelings to be seen, or would have known what to do if Till had reciprocated them.

There's something almost voyeuristic and self-negating in his feelings for Till (see: "I can’t reach you, so I imagine alone/You who shines, I stand next to you" from 'Black Sorrow'). He has far more self-awareness and willingness to accept things as they are than Till, who doesn't see that Mizi only has eyes for Sua and who would likely struggle to accept that reality.

Ivan, on the other hand, is well aware that his feelings for Till are "shallow", a bright fantasy to get him through his dark reality, and he seems to sincerely believe that his death won't scar Till because he's never really broken through to him. He's a schemer, and comments he makes in his graduation message to Till and the interview he gives in advance of round 6 suggest that he may have been planning to sacrifice himself for some time.

Part of me wonders if he hoped it would leave a mark on Till. Choking, kissing, and violently sacrificing oneself are all aggressive, forward acts, especially from someone who used to toy with people to get his kicks but was otherwise quite passive and unfeeling.

There are a lot of parallels in the one-sided loves, like Till acting out of his usual character for Mizi, and Ivan doing the same because of Till, putting all hopes of being saved in something just out of reach, staying in chains for that one special person. But Ivan's psychology is quite different from Till's, and in fact closest to Luka's re: low or no empathy. Both Ivan and Till are significantly traumatized by their upbringings but Ivan's difficult early life in the slums and his experience being dangled off that rooftop seem to have damaged his ability to connect to others or feel much of anything.

Till is the first person for whom he feels anything while for Till, Mizi is an early crush he puts on a pedestal in a much more commonplace way. I think the shared trauma of competing on that stage makes it much more difficult for either of them to imagine moving on, but Ivan is not wrong in identifying that he won't find that feeling again.

The thing that intrigues me most about this series is the way the contestants' differences play out, particularly with regard to how they view love and how they respond to their individual and shared challenges. I'd love to get into it further another time but this is quite long already so thanks for sticking with it if any have (haha)

[dreadark]

that ivan loves till is the most obvious thing about them

but. does ivan know that…?

the ivan that regards his own feelings as shallow, the ivan that learned how emotions are expressed only from copying others… does he even know that the love he’s felt for so long is love? probably not. and part of the reason is the one he loves himself

because the easiest example he has of love is till's feelings to mizi. till outright calls it love, and ivan watches him so much he has to be aware of this and till’s love to mizi is totally unselfish, right. he doesn’t seem to actually want much from her—just that she's still there and still "mizi"

but ivan can't be satisfied with just watching he… wants. ivan wants till’s attention, till’s affection—

surely this selfish wanting can’t be love

...no wonder he was never able to express his feelings straightforwardly when he belittles them so much but he can’t stand not having anything either, so he does… whatever he does instead to get any scraps of attention he can, from someone he's convinced doesn't care about him at all only showing affection when till can't see it, right until he knows he's going to die

but ivan's feelings for till are all he still has of himself... to think of them as shallow...

I've seen this translated as "I should've been kinder" to him (till) or to her (sua)

but really, the one he should've been kinder to was himself

[pwippy]

minor ivantill details: hand placement and intention in relation to the face!

tl;dr ivan uses his right hand (bcs its his dominant) to get tills attention in the short term which represents his emotional facade while he uses his left in more vulnerable moments to be more gentle and let down his mask

till is almost always injured on the right side of his face. (on the contrary, when a specific side of ivans face is hit its his left (woww so yin yang core.))

ivan uses this to his advantage when he wants tills attention. he purposely agitates till and his face for an immediate response. the more important part of him reaching out, though, is with which hand. the right hand. 85-90% of the world is right handed, so its easy to assume ivans also right handed.

its his dominant hand. straight to the point in intention and the amount of force put in.hes making himself *known.* this is definitely intentional by the animation team, these 2 shots parallel each other almost exactly (i havent seen anyone talk about these 2 together that often actually). ivans motives and emotional state are visible in these shots and i think the incorporation of body language is so detailed and under analyzed in the fandom.

on the other side of his emotional comprehension (the angst starts now btw), is how he interprets his feelings and how he "voices" them in a weaker way both literally and metaphorically. he believes his emotions towards till were "shallow," and that suas devotion and love to mizi was incomprehensible. its a "sign of weakness" and this shows in his hand movements as well!!

again a high percentage of the population is right handed, thus being ambidextrous is the rarest possibility in hand dexterity. his left hand is literally the weaker hand. the more emotional hand. he *only uses it* in "messy" or imprecise moments. like moments of emotional vulnerability.

correction, he only uses it around till. to be gentle with him. to be honest with him.

the struggle between his mask/expressions and actual emotion through his hands is even clearer in round 3 (way back i know). theres some great analysis on pinterest which i'll link at the end, but essentially his hand twirl is his most superficial and one sided interactions with till. one pose is an outstretched hand which the poster believed to symbolize the moment during their failed escape and till let go. (also yes i did check till and ivan were both holding right hands during that scene. the more you know!) on the other hand (please let me have my puns i am emotionally distraught) he is gripping the microphone which he belts into. which is the only veiled way he can audibly admit to himself and to till what he believes they are and will ever be.

[crustyfloor]

My night was going so wonderfully.

The headshot of this cover is just PAINFUL. They're actually acknowledging each other, they're the only ones on a cover to do that. And it's the prominent detail that Mizi looks horrified staring at Sua, even though they're clutching each other so... like they can't let go, while Sua looks reverent in the lane of that gaze, even blushing, slightly, savoring the moment. This also looks like their kiss scene...

To me, she looks just the same as the day she died because I think this cover is Sua's haunting of Mizi, because Sua's singing is just that, haunting and distant the longer she sings, she's fading out, but so gently despite its gruesomeness. And Mizi is grieving.

She's as angelic as she is in Mizi's memories..

But there's a cruelty to this because Mizi will never forget what she saw in round 1, that's why seeing Sua over and over and over again terrifies her, hence why the tone of this song is SO dark, especially in the second half when they're coming to a close, they get desperate to keep each other close, and there is a certain, but familiar ignorance to Sua's presence as if she can't see Mizi's pain even though Mizi is crying right in front of her--childish egos, Sua becomes a more honest character after her death, and in more expressive formats like this, and I like how she takes on that position in this song, the taker. (Like Till, he wanted a security blanket out of Mizi; Sua is similar in that sense.) as she takes and wants from Mizi for her own sanity.

And this newest illustration, oh my god. EXPRESSES THIS IDEA PERFECTLY, Sua looks so utterly distant, ghostly, dead.

In contrast to Ivan and Till's cure, Mizi and Sua's cure is more of a duet, and they switch places often. Mizi starts the song, she ends the song (just like in my clematis), and Sua supports it. Whereas Ivan and Till take turns leading and harmonizing, Mizi and Sua both participate.

And I believe they're interacting? Ivan and Till's cure wasn't a message to each other, something a lot more complicated than that--but Mizi and Sua transition frequently and it feels like they're singing to each other, It's more intimate.

Mizi - Allow me, to the tips of your finger

Allow me, to the ends of your feet

Dissolve me in your gaze

I don't want to let you go.

Sua - Please, leave me scars

Please, hurt me so that not a singly drop of me remains

Let me drown in you.

(The backing vocals mean so much to me, it's like a choir(?))

Mizi - Until these falling stars

Are buried in the blur of time

On your icy lips

Read my soul, yes, my soul

It wasn't spontaneous for the sake of it either, because this is a call-and-response

Sua - Even if your cold words

Carve scars beneath my eyes

May they linger on your tongue

You can break me apart

Mizi - Notice my pain

And mend me right now

To quiet my fears

I'll drown in you

-

Mizi is directly asking Sua, or the version of her she can't forget, to stay with her, calm her like she used to, as she wishes to have remained in the dark, to drown in her, or to have just not been left alone and, because even now Sua's death is not something she can accept, the portrayal of her feelings as she expresses her pain and desire to keep Sua close, even the false presence of her "On your icy lips" and "notice my pain and mend me right now" even though It's terrifying her, she doesn't want to let go.

Sua acknowledges Mizi's pain, and their shared pains after she died for her, the blame and the betrayal. Interestingly, Sua takes on the metaphorically self-destructive lyrics, Sua lives in fear, anxiety, and utter gloominess, she didn't want to be hurt by Mizi in the literal sense, but she would've rather been warmed in Mizi's soft light, her false hope and optimism, to be destroyed and to destroy Mizi's hope, even dying as the penalty of their love was far better.

Then Sua goes on to sing through the perspective of Mizi and her loneliness and grief after losing her with perfect clarity, it takes me back to the comic where Ivan scolded Sua about her plan, saying that she'd be nothing more than a trauma to Mizi after everything is said and done, she got upset at Ivan because she knew that, was devastated by the fact that she would be a burden just as she always feared, but then, what's a life without Mizi by her side, her only safety net? Her every reason for living?

This song displays their deep love and devotion, they sound melancholic but even in these horrific circumstances, Mizi's pain and hesitance, they don't drown each other out, they move together in perfect harmony just like they always do, in this way, it also feels like an apology of sorts from both sides before the bitter end, and a final goodbye.

AND THEN AT THE END WITH THE PERFECT SYNCHRONIZING OF THEIR VOICES ARGHH

And a new Sua illustration for the occasion 😭💔 (I'm gonna catch you soon Vivinos just wait.)

[shakingparadigm]

truly truly truly deeply insanely unfathomably obsessed with the shot of ivan glancing at the scoreboard to check till is in the lead before starting to really choke him. the kiss is definitely dubious in a toxic yaoi way that makes me we want to descend into the dark (tragedy edition) but i feel like his motives are somewhat clear, if multifaceted. sometimes you gotta hypocritically sacrifice yourself for love and also get your unreciprocated kisses in. i'm going to walk into the damn sea i thought i was READY

ALSO THE ART OF THEM CHOKING EACH OTHER FROM A BILLION YEARS AGO I KNEW IT KNEW THAT WAS GONNA BE RELEVANT AS HELL AND LOOK AT US NOW. AAAAUGH.

The kiss was.... very morally dubious, yes, but I can see why he did it, both from a selfless and selfish standpoint. The way he pulled Till back in just to check the scoreboards behind him was insane. He wanted to make absolutely sure. I don't recall Sua ever having to check the scoreboards during her performance.

Sorry, about to go off on a tangent here, but I can't stop thinking about the differences between Ivan and Sua's sacrifices.

Ivan's plan of sacrifice was a lot less polished than Sua's was, most likely because Till wasn't performing to his usual standard (unlike Mizi, who sang her heart out for Sua). He needed to take drastic measures when he realized Till wasn't cutting it, but his fucked up little head also wanted one last extremely selfish act, an attempt to burn something into Till's mind. So why not hit two birds with one stone?

Sua's plan of sacrifice was a lot more simple, provided no more spectacle than what was promised of a normal contestant death. She knew she was loved, so her final act before death was to play her part in the performance she and Mizi dreamed of ever since they were young. All she wanted was to grant Mizi's wish before death. A celebration of their love. A final I love you.

Ivan was so desperate he went all out. He had to make big strides, perform explosive acts of passion and aggression. He had to force it, had to interrupt his own performance in order to get the outcome he wanted. Unlike Sua, he wasn't loved. He wasn't even looked at, so he had to take desperate measures to get even a sliver of the attention he craved. His final act was far from a gift, more like a plea. Less like I love you and more like Please love me.

[ayakashiz]

Alien Stage R6 Analysis

VERY LONG compilation of my interpretations, impressions and unanswered questions about Round 6 of Alien Stage. I just wanted to write this to put all my thoughts in one place so I can finally rest (in pieces). TW for mentions of suic*de/suic*dal ideation.

The most debated is no doubt the kiss/choking scene and Ivan’s motivation for doing so in the first place. 

I think from the very beginning, even before R3, Ivan was planning to go out with a bang. That’s the immediate impression I got from the comic where he mocks/criticizes Sua for planning to “selfishly” die for Mizi and feel good being the “heroine” rather than having to deal with the trauma of being the one left behind. 

(I'm too lazy to edit the whole translation as of now, but might do so when I have more time.)

Ivan tells her how he’s “relieved that he’s not the only who’s that twisted” = He’s comparing himself to Sua. He thinks they’re both ‘twisted’ for planning to do the same thing, but from Ivan’s perspective, he at least isn’t fooling himself into thinking his motives are altruistic. He tasted the feeling of being ‘abandoned’, and he knows he doesn’t want to experience it twice. 

He also probably thought that his death wouldn’t be as impactful on Till as Sua’s death on Mizi, and therefore his own selfishness is more justified in his mind. This most likely plays a role in how cold and biting his words are towards Sua –he’s jealous of that difference between them.

I hadn’t noticed this detail the first time I watched the video: Not only did Till look absolutely miserable and defeated from the get go, but he completely gave up and stopped singing at some point. If you look at the video, we can hear the audio that was supposed to be sung, but Till is quiet and still, and THIS is the moment Ivan chooses to act.

Although they do not show the votes at that particular moment, stopping mid song would have definitely taken a hit to Till’s score as it’s basically forfeiting –a huge contrast to his previous match where he didn’t even let his opponent utter a single line.

In response, Ivan doesn’t just walk towards him but throws his microphone to the ground, explicitly forfeiting as well in order to then pull a drastic move like it was foreshadowed in his interview.

The kiss itself imo was the less calculated/arguably unplanned part. He could have just choked Till from the start and it would have gotten him the same if not better results (since it was the act of violence against another contestant that ultimately lowered his score and got the counter to stop). 

That kiss was authentic and for himself entirely, both as a last desperate attempt at conveying his feelings and a selfish way of leaving a strong impression on Till that he wouldn’t be able to forget (a hypocritical move going back to how he criticized Sua). In that sense, I don’t think Ivan was seriously trying to take Till down with him –although that’s up to interpretation. As I see it, that would contradict his actions up until that point.

Till was VERY CLEARLY suic*dal (once again, he gave up singing), and after the initial shock of Ivan squeezing his neck, this fiery, rebellious man who is KNOWN to fight tooth and nail, simply closed his eyes and relaxed his body, waiting for Ivan to end him without fighting at all. 

The thing is, no matter how suic*dal one may be, the fighting response when being actually suffocated is automatic and completely involuntary. People mention there not being marks on Till’s neck but I think the most telling sign is him not going red, not squirming, not struggling or holding onto Ivan’s wrists (again, expected involuntary responses), his eyes not watering or having blurry vision while we see Ivan from his POV, not opening his mouth even a little to gasp for air and not coughing or gasping either when he was finally released.

Ivan definitely had him in a strong grip, might have even made him a bit lightheaded, but the reason why Till could look so relaxed in the first place is because he had given up and was waiting for Ivan to go ahead. If his closed eyes and limp posture were due to the choking itself, he would have fallen or stumbled when being let go, but we see that his eyes open as soon as he feels Ivan’s hands slipping away and he looks shocked instead.

So then what was Ivan’s motivation, if not to kill him? Yes, there’s the already discussed plan to get himself disqualified. But Ivan glances at the screen only a few seconds after he starts the choking, confirming that the voting had in fact stopped with Till having the higher score. He then goes for one last ‘goodbye’ kiss before continuing to choke him, holding his grip even as he starts getting shot.

We see a closeup of him, his eyes and hands trembling, looking more frustrated/emotional than in Till’s first POV where he looks rather stoic. It makes me think that the reason he refused to let go was simply because he wanted Till to look at him. 

They strongly imply throughout the whole video that being annoying or mean or violent was the only way Ivan learnt how to make Till focus his full attention on him, but now even as he’s threatening his life, even as he himself is dying, even after that kiss, Till wouldn’t look. 

It took him getting fatally wounded and realizing there was no turning back to reach a state of acceptance. His bittersweet expression here reminds me A LOT of his smile after Till runs back during the meteor scene, although this one seems a lot more tender. He seems to accept the fact that Till will never love him back, but Ivan cannot stop loving him anyways and he at least got to put his feelings out there. 

(The parallels here are driving me insane. The way there is light in his eyes in both instances as he looks at Till even while 'losing him' in a way. The struggle between wanting to posses him yet realizing his free spirit/strong will is part of what he loves about him. That last genuine gaze from a character who spent his whole life putting on a mask. Yes I am very normal about this.)

Until then, Ivan’s more tender/vulnerable side is only shown while Till is unconscious or looking away.

(That soft, loving nuzzle to Till's face has me in SHAMBLES.)

But ironically, it’s only when he releases him and shows him this vulnerability without a mask that Till really looks at him for the first time. I’d go as far as to say that it was this moment, and not the kiss, that finally made Till understand Ivan’s feelings. And in turn Ivan gets that little shot of euphoria as he falls to the ground.

Going back to the survivor’s guilt… I can only imagine it’ll go completely downhill for Till from now on. Not only does he already think Mizi might be dead and is angry at himself that he couldn’t save her (as seen in the shot where he punches his own picture), but now he has most likely realized that Ivan intentionally fumbled their match for his sake –which would lead to the realization that he was the reason why Ivan chose to run back to Anakt Garden after him in the first place, and that choice ultimately lead to his death. 

Even though we see them fighting a lot as children through the videos and comics, it’s also implied that they were always together and they shared some quiet moments –the “Mizi didn’t play with you, I played with you” art, all that art of the main 4 playing together, those bright smiles as they ran away together during the meteor shower scene and Till looking so guilty when he let go of his hand. 

There are a few cute doodles of them for those who are on Patreon, and some more lore in the Anakt Garden kit –so they were at the very least friends in their own way (as best as 2 very traumatized and abused children could), constantly fighting and making up. Which God… it shows that despite appearances Till must have actually had the patience of a saint when they were little lmao.

But what I’m trying to say is that despite what Ivan may have thought, his death will most definitely have an impact on Till and the narrative going forward, and I’m excited to find out how that reflects in the final round (if the resistance doesn’t manage to get back up in time to disrupt it). 

Despite how much I adored (and SUFFERED WITH) this round, I still have MANY questions that were left unanswered, both about Ivan and Till, and the lore in general, and I wonder if there’ll be time to answer them all, as I can imagine the next MV will be focused on Luka’s perspective, the only one we haven’t been presented with.

One of the most pressing questions being: What’s the relationship between Ivan and that alien dog? Did he tame it? It is implied that it was Ivan who somehow led Till and Mizi to it in the first place in that one scene, and if so I wonder what his motivation was? Normally jealousy would be the first thing to come to mind but Ivan wasn’t interested in Till until AFTER he saw him stand up to the beast to protect Mizi, so it couldn’t have been that. 

This is something that was also teased on Patreon and I was looking forward to the explanation on the MV, but it never came, and now Ivan is dead, so the next video will most likely not be too concerned with his backstory any longer. (Which, also, I was really curious about his life in the slums before being captured, auctioned and brought to Anakt, as that would have played a huge role in his twisted personality/dark tendencies –once again teased on Patreon very briefly, but not explained beyond that frame of him looking famished.)

The second is, how is Ivan able to open Till’s collar/muzzle so easily? This is a question I’ve been having since R3, but chalked it up to Ivan being sneaky and figuring out some kind of code to the cell door and that somehow automatically deactivating the locks on the restraints… or something. But with how many times he does it in R6 with just a touch it’s very clear that that isn’t the case and also imo they’re trying to point this out as a significant detail. 

It may turn out that I’m just looking too much into it, but I find it really curious and interesting. Not only is he the only child without a collar (Mizi and Sua still had them despite being just as well behaved as him), but he seems to be the only one able to take them off –or at least Till’s. I’m pretty sure the children wouldn’t normally be able to remove them by themselves as it seems to be a control mechanism. So how can Ivan? This might explain a lot about how they were able to escape, and also add a layer of tragedy knowing that Ivan could have chosen to escape by himself at any point, but refused to leave Till behind.

Last but not least there’s all the human experimentation Till was subjected to, which was the main topic of the teaser and we see the same images show up in the very beginning of the MV. They help emphasize Till’s suffering and distressed state of mind, but then they’re never expanded on or mentioned at all for the rest of the video. That’s a huge piece of lore that I also hope isn’t forgotten.

I mean, I really doubt it will. So far VIVINOS & co. have been incredible with their ability to hold back information and release it at the moment where it’s the most impactful, which is refreshing to see. So I trust we’ll get some answers eventually. 

Really curious to know why they would experiment on an ALNST contestant in the first place, especially one that is undoubtedly talented and described as a musical genius (aka. has good odds of doing well on stage and earning the segyein revenue). A very plausible theory might just be that he was just getting constantly drugged to make him less of a threat/more submissive –like we see on the karaoke room scene. But it might as well be something bigger.

As for my expectations for the next round… I’m still just trying to process this one, as you can see by the sheer amount of text. There are many things left to address, and the Hyuna/Luka confrontation has been strongly teased. I wonder also, if the round goes on without interruption, what would Luka’s strategy against Till be? Would he go for provocation again, trying to imitate Mizi/hint to his recent trauma with Ivan? It probably won’t be that simple.

I mean, VIVINOS has been known for subverting our expectations with each round:

The ominous/callous framing that was given to Ivan by the end of Black Sorrow and the art that followed, making us suspicious of his intentions, only to have him die for love. The lifeless/doll-like framing given to Luka, vulnerable and cornered by flashing lights, only to have him be the cruelest/most calculating one (that we know so far). The rebellious, rowdy, willing to do anything to survive framing given to Till, only to have his fighting spirit completely break and willingly waiting to die by Ivan’s hands. The naive, complacent and passive image given to Mizi, only to have her snap, beat the shit out of Luka and join the rebellion –and with how things are going (and her being the protagonist) I wouldn’t be surprised if she, and not Hyuna (the one who was framed as the most strong and reliable, giving us a false sense of security going into R6), is who will have to try and rescue Till (and Luka???).

There are still a ton of things that keep me awake at night about R6 –my favorite character dying aside. I could talk about it forever, but I’ll leave it here. 

Feel free to share your theories, delusions, interpretations or any detail I might have missed with me. God knows we need group therapy after this as the cute chibi keychains can only heal us so far. Thanks for reading my rambles if you made it this far. :’)

[sunfish5149]

After rewatching round 6 for the nth time I just realized Till Win is reflected in Ivan's blood and OH. MY BMFUCCKIGBGOOOODDDD I HATE THEM I HATE THEM O HATE TJEM they could never make me hate you ivan.

Till standing next to Ivan while his body is still cooling feels awfully a lot like how a person would mourn at their loved one's grave, but I think that there's a lot more going on inside Till's head, and this just saddens me. I would crumble personally if I was him, because to me, Ivan's death also feels like a slap to the face I guess? Because until now his crush on Mizi allowed him to be selfish, to believe that once she was gone, he would be left all alone. He gave up his will to live, accepted defeat without further struggle, because he idolized and idealized Mizi to a point where his whole life depended on her existence. Perhaps he does have a crush on Mizi, but I fully believe that it partly stems from the love and adoration he saw Mizi offer to Sua, almost like "what if I could have that too?". He could not bear to part with the love and salvation he saw within Mizi, to the point where he gave away his freedom just to be near her, just for the chance that maybe he'd finally know what it feels like to be wanted, to be loved. He selfishly cut away at all the bad parts in this picture that he did not want to see, the worthless parts, the painful ones, the suffering he has endured at the hands of his captors, and ended up cutting away at the people that might've cared for him, that still do, until nothing but Mizi remained, who he foolishly believed to be able to offer him what he so desperately wanted. He made himself believe that he was alone, up until he truly, truly was. Until when can a man doggedly chase after one person until the death of what I dare call " the closest thing to family he has ever had" drop like flies around him? Round 6 offers us an answer.

I believe that part of the reason why he stood there as Ivan bled out is him processing that someone actually cared about him, loved the parts of Till that he saw to be loveless. It also feels like a wake-up call, the cut up picture that he has constructed his life around has finally been proven as the lie it is. He can no longer be selfish enough to close his eyes on reality, on his obsessive idealization for someone who will never, who cannot save him, on the fact that Mizi already loves somebody else so dearly, because the love he was searching for in someone, to be returned, was right next to him all along.

Too bad he only noticed Ivan when he was bleeding out at his feet. This is the closest thing to salvation Till will ever get from someone, to love so dearly one would give away their life without hesitation, to throw away their freedom, to not cut away at the corners of this picture, but to see it and love it and do everything to preserve it. Should Till look at such a picture, he would find the pieces of paper he has cut of himself which he believed to be loveless, reflected back at him in that puddle of blood. (I wrote this part fully relying on the muscle memory of my keyboard because my tears were deeply obstructing my vision)

This sacrifice will either ruin Till or give him motivation to live and the tenacity to fight back and free himself from the prison he has willingly walked in, and to finally accept that Mizi is a lesbiab and a ferocious grieving woman kisser. oh my god.

Edit: I JUST REALIZED MIZI ALSO IDOLIZES SUA THE SAME WAY TILL DOES WITH MIZI I HATE THEM I HATE TJEM J HATWHENM

Edit 2: this rant is lowkey outdated because first of all, I feel like I insulted Till's love for Mizi. Just as Ivan loved Till for his tenacity and fighting spirit, and whatever else he saw in that wet cat of a man, so did Till love Mizi, for her innocent happiness and love that poured out of her. She was the only one out of them who was blissfully unaware to the pain and suffering of the humans, and the shit the aliens put the rest through, the fact that Till was attracted to her partly because of that makes me feel miserable. I do wonder what he will think, should he survive and see just how much Mizi has changed, how she has grown to fight for what she wants to protect.

I also feel that I have underestimated Till's relation to Ivan, he truly did care for him, Ivan was just too cryptic to express himself

[tillyaoi]

Why I think Till is alive

complitation of stuff i noticed + stuff i saw on twitter that did make sense

#1. It just doesn't make sense. From the main four, we've seen ivan and sua and mizi's perspective on most things, mostly Ivan. but till?? NONE. the only thing we get from him is mizi flashbacks. I know mizi's the main MAIN character but till surviving until round 7 is pretty main character energy too. so it just doesn't make sense why they'd kill him off just like that. also. round 6. yeah, his best friend died for him so if he really is dead then ivan just died for nothing.

#2. In the all-in (till ver) album cover, he's the only one shown with another color in his art. and knowing vivimeng this IS a very important piece. cause all of the anniversary album covers have consistent patterns, all of them are just one color. except Till. not even HYUNA the og rebel has it. — and the 2nd color is red. which usually means or shows 'rebelling' in all of alien stage. Also. The red tape is covering where he got shot, which is also where his branding is. this could be a sign that he's getting revived or is just severely injured and is not ACTUALLY dead.

#3. In his flashback when he "died", he was with mizi. of course he would remember mizi at his final moments, she was the last person he saw and he loved her. and in that flashback, the two of them were hiding from aliens. but he had many moments with mizi as shown in the alien stage friday official arts. he could've remembered other ones but why THAT specifically? BECAUSE! it could symbolize them hiding the fact that till is alive from the aliens.

#4. AFTER that scene, it shows till dying on mizi's lap. it zooms out and we can see that till's leg is still up even if his arm already lost consious. (there was also xylophone music symbolizing till's heart beat, it stopped when his arm dropped) So if he was already dead and lost consious, his leg would also fall over cause it DOES take effort and strength to do that.so basically what im saying is he's still alive. maybe they had a plan and he faked his death.

"but their microphones can monitor their heartbeat." yeah. which leads me to no 5. #5. @pixelifiedcation's post talking about how till's microphone fell off when he was on mizi's lap, which was the end of the round so they wouldn't know if till really was alive. giving them the chance to fake his death

#6 now this the thing i noticed immediately while watching the premiere. if you rewatch all of the rounds and skip to the end, you'll see the screen where they show who the winner of the round is and who the loser is, the loser's light always fades out first before they show who the winner is fighting with next. ALL rounds except 7. they showed luka being the winner BEFORE till's light faded out. and it faded out SLOWER and even glitched, the other rounds just straight up faded out. This shows us that the aliens probably didn't know if till was alive or not since his earpiece wasn't connected.

#7 this ones just my opinion but tills death was kinda anti climatic like dont get me wrong i loved this round but its like they just brushed over his death and then showed us luka's reaction to seeing hyuna.

anyways, till is alive

[alien-til-i-stage]

There’s something interesting in the way of how each of the cast are very similar, yet they have castly different ways to cope with what is happening to them. Each of them has their own way to deal with their trauma and because of this and how they cope, it leads them to vastly different endings and life styles.

More down below

- Starting with Mizi, I believe she coped by living in denial. This might sound strange, considering Mizi lived with owners who loved her. Her owners sheltered her because they cared, leading her to eventually join Anakt Garden out of desire to sing. It’s implied that Mizi did not know what would happen in Alien Stage, which is interesting.

We know everyone else knew. Till, Ivan, and Sua all knew and were prepared to fight for their lives. It’s even said that the kids in Anakt Garden were raised to believe dying in Alien Stage was an honor and that they shouldn’t fear death. Its strange that Mizi didn’t know about this, so I believe that Mizi, either consciously or subconsciously made herself forget about it.

She is still a human, a pet for aliens. Vivinos and Qmeng have confirmed that while Mizi is still the one with the closest relationship to her owners, it will never be anything like a daughter relationship, that she is still a pet to them. I doubt that she was never shown any abuse to any cruelities of their society. She must’ve seen it at some point. Especially when she meets Sua, Sua is right behind her as the two of them are with their owners. All it would take would Mizi turning around to see the abuse Sua is suffering, but she doesn’t.

While I do believe that Mizi wouldn’t have been able to tell whats wrong with Sua at her age, I think this was purposefully done to show that Mizi doesn’t look back around Sua. She’s focused on the beauty in front of her, she doesn’t pay attention to anything else. Perhaps this is to represent how Mizi actually ignores or doesn’t pay attention to anything bad, focusing purely on happiness. She puts the bad away from her mind and plays, having fun.

It’s only until Sua dies, that it gets too much for her, she can no longer subconsciously ignore what is happening and is suddenly being forced to notice everything that is happening. Almost like it’s finally being shoved in her face.

-Sua copes by dissociating herself, seperately her body and mind. We can see this as Sua lies doll like in her glass enclosure. She doesn’t move, her eyes are dead and still, she is just there. I believe this represents how she no longer lives in the moment but rather is somewhere else mentally. She’s there physically, treated as a doll in front of the aliens, like a decoration, but she makes no reactions.

By dissociating herself, she has become the perfect doll. It’s easy for her to live life as a doll if she isn’t even mentally there at all. This fits with everything we’ve seen of her, how she constantly wears a deadpan face and doesn’t move unless she is in Mizi’s presence. Mizi makes her want to live in the moment. She legitimately has fun with Mizi, and it’s likely that when she isn’t around her, she goes right back to being doll like. This would give her another reason to constantly be around Mizi, not wanting to go back to the way she was.

If Mizi were to die, she would permanently go back to dissociating constantly, and she doesn’t want that. She wants to live in the moment, she wants to be with Mizi forever, both mentally and physically. But it is impossible for her if Mizi dies, so she sacrifices herself to keep herself from living without her, falling into her sweet dreams with Mizi forever.

-Till copes a much more violent way. Instead he has outbursts and attacks any aliens or humans making him distressed. We see this commonly in the way he rebels. He doesn’t allow others to walk over him. This can be seen when Ivan steps on Till’s flowers and he attacks Ivan. We see a pattern of when Till gets upset, he attacks and gets violent towards the person who got him upset. We see Ivan using this to his advantage multiple times in order to get a reaction out of him.

We can also see this in the scene above where Till attacks the first alien he can, grabbing something to beat them with. It’s likely that Till wasn’t even thinking, but rather just wanted to hurt something. We know that Till had no chance of winning, but that was most likely something he didn’t care or think about at all. This shows that this action was entirely emotional, a decision made rashly. We also know that when Till is hurt badly, he thinks about Mizi to make him feel better, another coping mechanism for him. However by round 6, he has lost both of his coping mechanisms. He lost Mizi, now only able to think about her being gone, and he is reminded that he is powerless, and he is unable to attack back. He has no way to cope, making him much more suicidal in round 6, because he can’t stand or bear his life currently.

-Ivan makes his own life and trauma bearable by constant masking. We can see this happen often with him. He puts on his mask as a way to survive but to cope, forcing himself to be seperated from what is happening to him. Similar to Sua, his mask keeps him away from his trauma. While he still hurts and he is still very traumatized, the effects of his trauma is lessened because his mask doesn’t break. He pretends his trauma doesn’t exist, he pretends he is the perfect person, and no one would be able to guess otherwise.

However the mask is also a trauma of its own. If he were to ever take off his mask, like in round 6 when he did so in front of all the aliens, he would be able to truly express himself. He does so, even at the cost of Till’s dignity and made Till confused and scared. It’s also said that when Ivan takes off his mask around Till, he becomes childish and immature, showing how the mask has also made him mentally younger. How because he doesn’t cope properly or face life the same way a typical untraumatized person would, he is mentally younger, being described a man child in fact.

-Luka projects onto others to let out his feelings of helplessness and powerlessness. It was stated by Vivinos and Qmeng in a Q and A that Luka mentally abuses the other person on the stage, in this case it would be Mizi, because the stage is the one place he can be in control. He feels helpless and powerless outside of the stage, his entire life dictated by his owner as he is unable to chose his own path. He’s been raised from a very young age controlled by everyone around him, so once he gets the chance to have some form of control or power, he immediately jumps on the chance to get it.

He hurts the other contestant, uncaring of how they feel, because it makes him feel in power. He projects onto the other party his pain and his own feelings as a way to cope. Because of this, this could be another reason why Luka is alone. He chooses to hurt others around him because it makes him feel better, so naturally no one would want to be there for him. He has lost everyone because all he does is hurt them, seen with him and Hyuna. How Hyuna is deeply traumatized by Luka and now she avoids him and refuses to think about him.

-Hyuna, similar to Mizi, copes by running away from her traumas, using sustenaces like alcohol or keeping hersef busy to not think. While I did say above Mizi subconsciously forgets what is traumatizing until it gets too much, Hyuna tries desperately to make herself forget. We see her constantly drinking and partying, and when she isn’t, she is on dangerous missions. It’s most likely that she does this to run away from her own mind, that if she pauses and stops for one second, she will become overburdened and overwhelmed but her trauma.

We see her pause or freeze when she sees an image of Luka, forcing her to remember everything that happened. We see her panic on stage, trying so hard to make her voice louder and sing more to forget whats going on in her mind. This makes her trauma a weakness for her, as when she freezes, they are attacked by guards. Because of how long she has been running, the worse the effect of her trauma is to her.

[neolxzr]

hey you get it its an alien stage alien au—wait a minute... this is just invader zim !!!

some more random info abt this au under the read more ^_^ open at your own risk its a lot of yapping

till makes it his mission to expose the aliens (mostly ivan. he has personal beef with him) to the rest of humanity, but he's the boy who cried wolf. no one believes him because he's been talking about aliens and bigfoot and mothman and whatever nonstop all his life.

till loves the supernatural but also fears it. it consumes most of his waking thoughts. he doesn't like how quickly the aliens grow close to mizi out of a desire to protect her from the (presumed) threat. he's kinda like if dib invader zim was some gay art kid instead of like a supergenius

this threatening feeling comes from till assuming that ivan and sua are on earth for some kind of conquest and or abduction reasons. are they actually? who knows...

mizi is a bit of a hopeless romantic and finding out that sua was an alien only served to make her fall for her more. she could think of nothing more romantic than this scenario, actually. even till screaming danger at her cannot deter her from her love

ivan fights with till and riles him up because he finds how expressive he is utterly fascinating. he says its to "learn more about humans" but mostly he just wants till's attention. he himself doesn't know why he wants this attention, though.

sua and ivan experience a range of emotions in a similar way to humans, yet their species is discouraged from acting emotionally and isnt taught about what any of their feelings mean. all they know, at the start, is that these humans draw some kind of strange feelings out of them that they've never felt before.

(it sticks with the overall theming of alnst being about trying to understand exactly what love means.)

ivan and sua's earpieces are multipurpose tools. they're connected directly to the brain and can't be taken off. they can be used to generate their disguises (its a hologram type of thing), works as a translator so they can communicate with other alien species, etc.

what looks kind of like a nose on the aliens' faces is not a nose. their antennas are used as their olfactory system (they are also quite sensitive)

till is no longer crushing on mizi at this point in his life. sometime during middle school mizi came out to him as a lesbian and so he told her he liked her and it was a whole thing and they both cried. it ended up serving to strengthen their friendship. its been about 4 years-ish since then and theyre still inseparable

till works some kind of shitty service job part time, at which he met hyuna. she's like his cool older college friend and sort of older sister. he plays with her band sometimes

this takes place in who the fuck knows where midwest united states, and the humans are korean-american. till is first generation and usually speaks korean with his mom at home

it takes a while for till to first get a glimpse of ivan and sua's undisguised forms, though when he finally does something about them seems oddly familiar to him.

mizi sees sua's undisguised form long before till does. she does not tell him this

luka is an alien too. wonder what he's up to...

ok thats all love you bye ^_^

[eggonthemoon]

How Mizisua and Ivantill is often mischaracterized.

(this is entirely my own opinions and interpretations of Alien Stage, you are entirely in the right to disagree with any of my points here)

I feel like a lot of the time, people often water down mizisua and ivantill into something shallower than they are:

Mizisua is sweet and healthy because their love is mutual.

Ivantill is toxic and unhealthy because of it's one-sidedness.

That's probably just me oversimplifying it and I could word it a little better, but that's my point here. There's more to the dynamics than what is on the surface.

And I want to talk about it.

First things first though!

None of the characters are raised in normal, healthy upbringings. And thus don't have a normal or natural foundation to base their relationships on

I feel that's super important to recognise here. How can we expect them to understand things like boundaries and healthy communication when no one has bothered teaching them this. They are left to figure that all out on their own.

Which leaves me to my first point:

Mizisua is not healthy!

Not in the slightest even. I feel like a lot of the time, at least in fandom, people will claim that as long as there's no abuse and both parties feelings are mutual then it's healthy. That's not the case here.

Mizi and Sua has a dangerous level of toxic co-dependency with each other. To cope with their hopeless reality, they pour their everything into their love for each other. They become the other's salvation. And in turn when one of them dies, the other is ruined.

Both of them are selfish in their love for each other. Mizi loved and cherished the soft side of Sua that only she got to see, it made her feel special, blessed even. And Sua purposely left Mizi in the dark about the truth behind Alien Stage, so that she could indulge in her and Mizi's blissful days of youth.

Neither of them are in the wrong for that. They only ever wanted to see the other happy but because of that, they didn't get to be truly vulnerable with each other. They were the other's utopia, their escape.

To me Mizisua is not just doomed because Sua died.

To me Mizisua is doomed because they were never afforded the chance to truly grow their relationship into healthy relationship I know they could be. One where they don't have to always be together and where even the rocky patches are allowed to coexist.

But the segyein never afforded them that chance.

Onto my point on Ivantill...

Till doesn't hate Ivan, he in fact cares for him a lot

Lots of people write off how Till feels about Ivan as "he doesn't give a fuck about him" simply because Till doesn't have any romantic feelings for him. That couldn't be further from the truth. In the artbook Ivan's affection rating on Till's page is 70% which is a lot for someone who supposedly doesn't care about him. Personally I think Till is mostly just confused by Ivan's behaviour.

He likes him but does things to make him mad.

He likes him but he steals things from him and then return them to him later.

When Till punched him after Ivan ruined his flower crown, Ivan laughed, enjoying their fight.

Till is smart, a genius even according to his peers. But when it comes to love he barely knows anything. I'm not sure where this was said but apparently his initial reason for liking Mizi is as simple as:

She's pretty.

Maybe those feelings were eventually accompanied by feelings of admiration for her genuine love of singing but it doesn't change the facts here.

Till's love for Mizi was rather shallow.

But much like Mizi and Sua made each other their escape from reality, Till did the same. Mizi became his everything because he had nothing. No happiness, no comfort, just his talent and a "father figure" with big ambitions for him. "Love" was just yet another means of survival. For someone who has endured violence for so long...would he ever begin to even consider the guy who provokes him, steals from him and "supposedly" enjoys violence, to have feelings for him?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think Till feels responsible for Ivan abandoning his chance of escape. Till didn't want to leave behind the person he made his entire reason for living but he didn't even once consider that he himself was that to Ivan.

Only when Ivan returned did he understand why.

And that's why I think Till can't stand looking at Ivan. The guilt is too painful. He and the guy might have fought a lot but they were friends. And he took away his one opportunity to escape this hell that is Anakt Garden and Alien Stage.

Till cares deeply about Ivan but doesn't realize that pushing Ivan away only hurt and wounded him more deeply. I think he only truly understood that fact once it was too late.

Till and Ivan both care for each other.

Just not in the same way.

[k9punkout]

AND IF I SAID THAT ivan's perception of till's determination and hostility was generally wrong and unintentionally undermining of his actual mental instability. IF I SAID THAT this pov rubbed off on the fandom and plays into several till mischaracterizations. WHAT THEN.

okay so hear me out on this one. ivan's acknowledged that he could never quite understand till like he could all the other children. everyone else fell into a sort of pattern, a puzzle that can be solved with a simple analysis and adapted behavior. everyone except till.

till was no solvable puzzle. all the pieces to him were distorted, broken, missing. a living hurricane, a walking contradiction. he was gentle in his violence, quiet in his loudness, complex in his simplicity. ivan could get no true read on him, and that's why he grew so drawn to him.

and while i do believe that till is just an eccentric and unpredictable person at heart, a large part of his chaotic nature is due to his trauma. his rapid and intense mood swings, his aggressive behavior, his easily overwhelmed mind, his fluctuating ego, and many other aspects to him are all signs of abuse related mental instability. ivan saw all of that, witnessed all the abuse and all its side effects, but it never really struck him that holy shit, this guy needs psychological help.

and it's not like that's HIS fault either. Ivan was never really taught how people work, he learned via absorbing how the other children interacted instead (which isn't really efficient, he's no mind reader or anything). i wouldn't be surprised if he had no clue that mental illness even EXISTED; he always referred to himself and sua as simply "twisted" rather than trying to figure out if they could be helped or fixed, or WHY they stood out from the others.

he never even questioned his own hatred for himself. he simply thought it was reasonable, because of course, who wouldn't hate a monster like him? once someone knows who he is deep down, there is no redeeming quality that he can genuinely exhibit to exonerate himself from his rotten, detached mindset. in his mind, he deserves the isolation.

ivan truly sees himself as the worst person in the world, which makes till, by comparison, simply a confusing kid who isn't scared to fight back. ivan thinks till's willpower stems from great mental strength rather than desperation and fear. this would lead him to both misinterpret till's actions and overestimate his mental strength, all while underestimating how rapidly his sanity is withering.

this is shown quite a few times around the series. in "Confession," he refers to till as the "victim of his shallow emotions," demonizing himself and painting till as his victim. as if till could do no harm. as if till was the ONLY victim here. (i can't stop thinking about how much till would've hated that word. victim.)

in a slightly more elaborate retranslation of Cure that someone on this app did (i tried to find it but i sadly couldn't), the word "scars" ("even if your cruel words carve scars beneath my eyes") was said to be better translated into "scratches." a flesh wound. nothing debilitating, nothing severe, just painful for a while, and then gone. insignificant. the harm he inflicts is insignificant compared to everything else that he is.

i'll stick around, i'll stay, because the bruises we leave on each other are nothing compared to the spark he ignites within me.

till punches and kicks and screams and snarls, and to ivan, it's no problem, just something that makes him unique. he'd do anything to see him fight. so what if he gets caught in the crossfire? so what if he's killed while he's at it? it's all worth it. till could just continue on without him, it'd be so easy. he's strong, he never cared for him all that much anyway.

till is unpredictable, till is unique. it's just the way things work. nothing about it needs to be changed. the destruction he causes to himself and to others doesn't need to be fixed, it's already perfect. he's perfect, in all his imperfections.

THATS where the toxicity lies in ivantill. not because ivan is totally possessive and wants till to belong to him and only him or whatever some of the fandom says. but because ivan so obsessed with till that he'll die for him while calling him his victim. that he'll acknowledge till's hostile behavior and his quickness to rage and violence and consider it something to be loved rather than concerned about or feared. he'll hone in on his own flaws, never acknowledging till's, never seeing how they're destroying EACH OTHER, and exclusively focusing on the harm that HE'S done to till.

it's why ivan was always bothering him. he wanted to see him lose his temper, wanted him to fight and struggle. (more often than not, this was a good thing, as it often happened whenever till was sad/out of it, but just because something's beneficial in the moment doesn't mean it makes for a healthy relationship).

of course, none of this means that ivan DIDNT want till to be happy. he wouldn't have tried to escape with him if that was the case. he liked seeing till angry, but not any more than he hated seeing till miserable. despite not quite understanding him, he still wanted the best for that boy.

i think ivans warped perspective affected the way many people characterize till. a lot of people treat him as a more gentle person than he is in canon, and while it's true that he's mentally weak, he'd never cower in the face of someone stronger than him, like many people seem to think. he's vulnerable in the explosive and reactive sense, not in the powerless and delicate sense.

so far, we've gotten so much of ivans perspective of till that people seem to forget that he literally committed a murder in round 2. and he looked REALLY happy abt that shit. my mans freddy was a father of two and till did NOT care. not to mention that he didn't even spare acorn a GLANCE the entire round.

idk man the guy's a lil cuckoo loca we might need to remember that

[till-the-end-official]

Ivan paces around his room as his sister stares at him in lesbian judgement. He really doesn't want to hear it from her, but she speaks anyway.

"Ivan. Till is not going to care what you wear on this date. Till already dresses like Adam Sandler on a regular basis. His idea of 'dressing nice' is probably being fully punked out. I think you'll be fine."

Ivan groans into his hands. His sister was right, but he'll never say that out loud. He sighs and goes back into the closet (lmao) and just picks his favorite outfit. He even got a matching cap and sunglasses for the outfit to hide himself in public.

"Noona, do you think he'd kill me if I took him somewhere too nice?"

"Yes."

Her speaking without hesitation definitely meant that she was 100% sure and also correct.

Ivan pouts and grumbles under his breath. He then gets a brilliant idea and gasps out loud.

"Oh my god, karaoke! It's literally that easy. Both of us are good at it... or well good at singing- and we can also order drinks and book a private room."

Sua regards him with vague amusement. She huffs fondly before standing up, making her way out of the house.

"Yeah. That works, just don't start making out in the booth. Unfortunately, there are cameras. Me and Mizi found out the hard way."

Ivan's face lights up in flames at the idea of making out with Till before the rest of the comment registers in his head.

"Wait you and Mizi-?!?"

Sua's already booked it out his apartment. Ivan has half the mind to chase her, but he has a date to get ready for.

Till, on the other hand, was freaking out. He was on call with Mizi, practically hyperventilating, as he dismantled his entire closet.

"Till, calm down. You're overthinking this. Ivan finds you so attractive as is- he would find you attractive in a potato sack. Calm down."

These words did not assure Till at all, his mind was set into panic mode. He threw outfit after outfit onto his bed, making his bedroom seem like a clothing store was blown up. He had NEVER put this much effort into how he looks, and it was reminding him just how simple his outfits were. He wasn't one to care about what he wore on dates, he usually just threw on whatever he felt like, but this time it was different. Everything about this date felt different.

"I-I still want to look somewhat presentable! Just because he may like whatever I wear doesn't mean I shouldn't put any effort into it!"

Till has never sounded more distressed in his life, and Mizi only ended up giggling as she watched her senior freak out over what to wear. She knew that deep down, whatever Till chose Ivan would drool over him in, but it was very sweet seeing Till put this much thought into his outfit.

"How about the outfit you wore to the Beat Rider event? The one with your black ripped jeans and leather jacket?"

Till had no energy to think of anything different, so he decided to go with that. While he was grabbing his clothes, he also grabbed some silver rings and earrings to go along with it. He threw on a simple blue crewneck, quickly putting a silver chain and another necklace with a lock around his neck before throwing on his hooded leather jacket. He put on his pair of black ripped jeans before quickly lacing up his Doc Martins.

"Do you think this looks good?"

Till asked, turning his camera on and showing Mizi the outfit. Mizi gasped, despite it being the outfit she suggested, and nodded excitedly.

"You look great! I'm sure Ivan is going to love it."

Right as the pink-hair actress said that, the sound of Till's doorbell going off could be heard.

"Speak of the devil... Thank you, Mizi."

"No problem at all! Just remember to be safe!"

Before Till could ask what she meant by that, Mizi hung up. He groaned quietly to himself before quickly grabbing a facemask and a pair of sunglasses just incase he needed them. He quickly ran out of his room, shoving his phone in his pocket before opening the door.

As soon as Till registered Ivan, he slammed the door on his face, his cheeks flushing up as he had a mini gay panic.

'Oh my god- we're going out and he looks like THAT?! I might have to wear my mask the entire time oh my god. He can't just SURPRISE me like that- I knew he was attractive but like I've never slammed the door before- wait! Oh shit!'

Till hurriedly opened the door again, cursing under his breath as he looked at Ivan. His face was even hotter than before he slammed the door, so he must look like a fucking apple right now. God... he felt so embarrassed. He would be surprised if Ivan didn't mistake him for a sundried tomato right now.

[timmie-p]

guys. guys. guys. !!!!

Ivan: Pfft

Ivan: Ah, sorry, I didn’t mean to…

.. but it doesn’t matter because you’re not going to see me anymore. Seeing you like this makes me feel relieved, like I’m not the only one who’s twisted.

Sua: What..?

Ivan: You don't want to be the tragic heroine who sacrifices herself for her, do you? Are you feeling miserable and sorry for yourself?

Hypocrite~ All you do is avoid responsibility, blame it all on your opponent and run away

Ivan: You’ll be nothing more than a left behind trauma to Mizi.

Sfx: Urgh!

Sfx: Flick

Ivan: See, in the end it’s all about yourself

👀‼️⁉️

this is massive characterisation moment besties !! what is happening!!!!!!!

i wonder what sua did to get a red collar and psychoanalysis from ivan ‼️⁉️ and why doesnt ivan have a collar! is this being a good obedient child special privileges..

so it looks like to me: sua took the fall for something related to mizi and got punished (red collar) —>

ivan comes to be smug, says she’s twisted because she doesn’t actually want to sacrifice herself for mizi and is just putting up an act —>

she’s feeling sorry for herself because she’s being punished for something she didn’t do, ivan says she’s a hypocrite that doesn’t take responsibility —>

implies that she’s going to die (?) and will be nothing but a trauma in mizi’s past —>

sua is hurt by his words and runs away, ivan takes her non-rebuttal as proof that he’s right and she’s selfish

i think sua tearing up is supposed to mean she does care about mizi and is offended ivan would say such a thing (but also maybe internally admitting to some of it?? idk)

i think this is the most sua focused extra info we’ve gotten so far 🤯 hope someone else can actually figure out whats going on lol my mtl translations are in the flop era 🙏 i do not know what theyre talking about just making guesses out here

+ extra thought what does ivan mean by not going to see him anymore… was sua moved to isolation or something??