#if hsy is in a platonic relationship with yjh/kdj i need them to be in this weird unclear dynamic that makes people question it

[two-wizards-in-a-trench-coat]

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[insomaniacat]

orv spoilers

tbh I'm so happy there is no explicit romance in orv (minus the brief stuff that happens with jhw and lhs) and because of that I feel like I've been able to appreciate kdj in such a profound way as a character

like sure i like joongdok and yoohankim but to me at least kdj has this level of asexuality to him that I don't usually associate him with anyone that romantically. And their relationships are still as complex and has such a great depth that they are like THE foundest of families and I can return to the kim dokja company at the end of the day as all of them being my comfort characters. you know that saying like 'i love you so much i'd make the world burn for you'? it's meant to be this dramatic line about how much you love someone (romantically), but kdj's company fully encapsulates this in a platonic way that just isn't cringey or anything like that

they are all so platonic but they love each other to such an unconditional way that they ALL decide to relive through all the scenarios again in the hope of finding kim dokja again. and later, they all help to write and spread a story - stories, the thing the reader loves - again, in hopes of bringing kdj back home. they aren't sure if it'll work, but it is through this love they all have that they don't give up and put their hope in this seemingly impossible method

and this is also what makes them fundamentally different from kdj. unlike kim dokja in the apocalypse, they do not have any sort of proof their methods will work. kdj has twsa - the novel he grew up reading, the novel he fantasized living in, the novel that he's spent 13 years following, learning every nook and cranny and probably even planning out his own way to survive the apocalypse from this lengthy novel. he has some sort of assurance his methods will work, with the amount of time hsy put into describing the settings (remember that twsa was not popular and one of the complaints was that tls123 put too much emphasis on the settings that deterred people from reading it, when really, that too was a way to ensure kdj survived the apocalypse later on). he has had time to reassure himself and plan for it, and probably had yjh case test them all

but kdj's company had no assurance - they did not grow up with a book that confirmed their methods of bringing kdj back would work. they did not have any 'third plans', no 'ressurections', no 'restarts', that kdj had in the apocalypse. all they had was their own hope - something kdj didn't have when he was fifteen sitting in that hospital bed after that failed suicide attempt, feeling like the whole world was against him. Until he searched up those three words on his phone. Those three words that were probably 'Ways of Survival'.

And then he found his hope in twsa. he found his hope in yjh, the protagonist made just for him. he found hope in the story that he believed in for the next thirteen years. the story that got him through high school, the CSATs, the military. his hope was in this tangible book that carried him through the apocalypse.

kdj's company had none of that. they only had their hope in kim dokja - the man they survived the scenarios with. they could only put their hope in their memories of surviving with the man that saved them, even though there was no evidence he lived in their world anymore. they had to put their hope in the fact that they remembered he existed, even though they had to acknowledge that they didn't know everything about him.

sing shong touches upon this idea a lot throughout orv - does something really exist if no one knows about it? or, in a more modern saying, did a fallen tree in a forest really fall if no one heard it? what proves the existence of something? what proves that something truly happened? sing shong seems to make it pretty clear that the existence of something can be represented metaphorically like a 'story', and stories need a 'reader', some sort of spectator that witnesses it, for the 'story' to exist.

for kim dokja, his final sacrifice, where he split into infinite little pieces scattered across the universe, was to ensure that everything existed. that open ending, as tragic as it was, was meant to be comforting. that his sacrifice was supposed to be so existences like you and me, are real. no matter how lonely we may feel throughout our lives, a metaphorical 'kim dokja' is looking at our own stories, spectating our own stories, even living our own lives himself.

and what i hate to say sometimes is that kim dokja is not really a character - he is an idea. he is an idea of some being affirming our lives, that it's real, that what we do from day to day, even something as simple as getting up in the mornings and brushing your teeth, or thumbing through a store catalog, matters. and this is why kim dokja sacrificed himself. for all the stories that may have not 'existed' if no one was watching it.

and it's out of love. this tragic, terrible love for the world, that eats away at yourself until you are nothing. but at least you exist.

[orviposition]

Do you think KDJ x HSY has gotten more popular in the fandom?

yes and no.

lemme explain

yes because firstly, as we know, orv fandom is constantly growing on all sorts of social media. the more the fandom grows the more posts will pop up and engagement will be had

secondly, orv is a meta heavy novel. and hsy, equally so, a meta heavy character. being one of the main three characters means that she has close relationships with the majority of the orv cast (sure kdj yjh and ysa are closer but you get the point) in fact I'd go so far and say that out of all 3 of yhk hsy is the most balanced when it comes to her relationships and i can make the argument that kdj is not too close with lsh and yma, or yjh is not close with ysa, jhw (outside of 0th turn) and lgy (<- altho hes more than willing to throw hands with him lmao)

now circling back to doksoo, whether in a platonic sense or a romantic sense, they are one of the key duos in orv so orv fans are bound to talk about them in whatever sense that we like them as.

now no, bcs as i said orv fandom is growing, doksoo shippers are growing in numbers, but so are shippers of other ships. i dont want to sound vague, but it also depends what your criteria to determine a ship's popularity is? likes on a fanart on twitter? notes on a post on tumblr? doksoo winning a poll on orv subreddit? the number of fics on ao3??

bbnim's sangsoo (not tagged) art reached 100k likes on twitter. another artist's joongdok (also not tagged) art reached 130k likes. does that mean that every single person that has interacted with these fanarts has been a shipper? no, it doesn't. someone can vaguely describe a doksoo trope on a tumblr post and go viral. does this mean that every single one that liked and reblogged that post is a doksoo shipper? also no. reddit is a different landmine altogether. m/f ships have always thrived there, until you consider that their shippers are dudebros who very much do not create any type of fan content.

now, while not the absolute factor, I'd say that the most reliable indicator is the number of fics (on different platforms such as ao3, wattpad, threadfics on twitter, mini fics on tumblr. and so on) and just wow theyre pitiful over there

tldr, these past few months that ive been active in the fandom I've noticed that doksoo shippers genuinely don't seem to grasp the general rules of the shipping side of the fandom(s) they lack imagination and delusion which you need if you want others to engage with your ship and fan content(they also spend way too much time trying hard to disprove joongdok moments but anw)

[note-boom]

AHHHHHHH!!!!!!! If I spam reblog this will this count as how many likes I want to give it?

But anyway, SO VALID. AND ALL OF THIS IS REAL AND TRUE. I actually haven't read the webtoon yet but I did hear from another friend that it's around the place you stopped that the webtoon started deviating slightly.

I have made a post like this before and I'll say it again here because this technically still is a bsd blog but (this might count as spoilers since I'm speaking themes so just skip to the next paragraph just in case)...if you liked BSD for its metafictional themes and the way it fictionalises real people and their philosophies, you will love ORV for the way it does that but in a completely unexpected way that also is similar but also is completely different - actually. In hindsight, I think if you enjoyed BSD Beast, ORV is worth looking at.

But all of what you said is so true. Dokja and Sooyoung are absolutely besties but like in the "we make each other worse" way and it only gets better from there. Jung Heewon has one of the most fascinating arcs (I had to delete a ramble about her because I realised spoilers oops...). Dokja and Joonghyuk are in deep mutual denial (I get it, though. I, too, would deny association with either of these two unfermented radish-heads) BUT MY FAVORITES you asked!

Well....

I love this trio. But more specifically I love Shin Yoosung and Lee Gilyoung (sorry Jihye). There's probably something to be said about my own sanity to say that I enjoy children put through horrors but it's like...they're middle grade book protagonists. They're kids thrown into a genre meant for adults. They're two of the most powerful incarnations. They're both each other's parallel and they're siblings (you can't change my mind on them being siblings). They both offer a very, very intriguing discourse on the nature of choices and evil/good. Also, I like bugs and I like animals, so that might be biases showing...

Also. Her

Yoo Sangah my ACTUAL BELOVED AND -. Can't get much into her without spoiling a bit but but but....subversions. Without being mean about the trope she's subverting, too.

Like, I'm serious. All of these characters are subversions of some silly trope WITHOUT telling us those tropes are stupid and actually showing a lot of love for the "lowbrow" (i heard that term recently) lit pieces. They're all so unhinged in someway or the other, too. Like none of them are normal no matter how they trick you into thinking they are. And obviously I love KDJ and YJH and HSY and I honestly think Lee Hyunsung deserves a mention too because he's just such a sincerely sweet character. And Asuka Ren, too, though you haven't met her yet I think?

Guys, I know I'm an echo chamber of greater analysts and propagandaists, but READ ORV. Read it if you like shounen tropes because it shows such love for them without making you need to suspend some moral disbelief (well, for the most part because, as mentioned, they're all unhinged). Read it if you enjoy pieces that tackle the meaning of stories and narratives. Or if you like discourses on ethics and what it means to be a person and something about sacrifices. Read it if you like tragedies and comedies and bildungsroman and all sorts of genres (because somehow, SOMEHOW, orv gave me a feeling of a satisfying ending for a variety of genres but that may be me gushing). And read it if you like the importance of history and myths and folktales and human invention (and religions but it can get iffy on things concerning...well, spoilers, but yeah.) Read it if you like platonic relationships and family relationships both treated with equal importance. And read it if you just like things that make you go "what is happening?? How am I actually following along??"

Aaaand I'd better stop there. Sorry this turned into another ORV rant post on bsd main but it is what it is and I have no regrets....

You've started reading Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint! For Han Sooyoung??? Story, you are the most valid ORV reader there is and I'm wishing you thoughts and strength for the coming destruction of sanity.

How are you finding it so far? (This is Note, btw, and feel free not to answer if you still want to withhold judgment)

Note!!! Yes, I did start!

Ahuhdfv yeah I had heard people talk about it before but I wasn't really looking to get into anything new atm so I thought ok, I'll check it out eventually. Like it sounds good but not right now. Then the yaoi polls started and people were telling me to vote joongdok so I did with like, zero understanding of what was happening but you know. Happy for you guys! And then there were a few memes and I was amused and said ok, it seems like I should really put this on my list. And then there was a post talking about how meta the themes are and that it's heavy on platonic love themes and it made people cry and I went oh. And then another said the women were distinct and well written and I went oh.

Yeah and then I saw people tagging these deranged posts with hsy and that decided it for me. Pleased to know she is every bit the chaos woman I thought she'd be, and I still feel like I barely know her at this point. Her and kdj's dynamic is ahafbvdhfvnv. Asshole besties. To me.

I actually binged most of the webcomic in one day (I found it first) before I decided to stop and start from the beginning with the novel because I wanted more of kdj's narration! It's interesting... I know it's going somewhere very different from how it started and while I have some ideas, I'm very uncertain about them. There's so much going on. The entire cast is really fun and I'm intrigued by all of them. But. um. I have a lot of fondness for. Her.

J-Jung Heewon... so cool............. (also she's funny as heck which is just a bonus at this point)

Love that Kim Dokja has surrounded himself with people who care about him deeply and 100% have his back but also would not hesitate to get his ass. Good for him, honestly.

Anyways I'm still catching up in the novel but I left off in the comic with yjh flipping out after kdj took a mortal blow for him and then going ballistic while affirming kdj as his companion only for dead kdj, who is watching all this go down, to immediately rationalize it as "ah he's trying to get coins". ............ How can he be so clever and also so dumb.

Who are your favourites btw? I imagine it may be for spoiler reasons but I'm still curious :D