#identity...penny and oscar but also RUBY

[rwbyrg]

Hello!

I would like to ask if there's already a post a long the lines of "Why Rosegarden is a good ship" or reasons to ship RG? If none would it be alright to ask for your insights?

It's my first time being interested in them but I just can't wrap it around my head for now. I would love to read about them!

Thank you in advance ^^

Hi Anon!

I have not yet made any posts specifically with these questions in mind, no. Just a small, unfinished, series about why I believe the ship is likely to be canon. I am happy to offer some insight, but I don't know that I'm going to give you the answers you're looking for. 😅

First and foremost, the questions you're asking aren't really ones that can be answered objectively. What makes a ship "good" or "bad" is largely subjective, as there are as many ways to view a ship as there are people viewing it. I could make an argument about how I think it is - objectively speaking - a well written pairing that follows the typical beats and tropes (with delightful subversions) of a good romance arc, that also parallels how other canon ships within RWBY have been established... but at the end of the day, if you're not a fan of what RG is about, then there's not much I can say to change your mind.

Which brings me to your second question. The best reasons to ship RG are going to be the same reasons for why anyone should ship anything: ship it if you want to, ship it if it resonates with you, and ship it if you enjoy it.

If their characters, interactions, themes, parallels, allusions, tropes, symbolisms, foils, designs, messages, etc., aren't your cup of tea, it's completely okay if you pick something else on the menu! So long as you don't like. verbally harass people that do like it or fill the tag w the same discourse that we are all very tired of seeing.

I don't know if that is a sufficient answer to your question, so I'll take a chance and also provide some of my personal reasons as to why I think it's "good" and why I ship it. While there are many reasons I can't all include, the main things are just how much they mirror each other:

From their complementary character designs (red vs. green, silver vs. gold, moon vs. sun, etc.),

To shared fairytale allusions (Little Prince and the Rose, Dorothy and Princess Ozma/Tip, Warrior in the Woods, etc.),

To the narrative parallels (both being the youngest of the group when they joined respectively; how both of their attachments to each other keep being put into focus; to their shared themes around choice and identity: Ruby having chosen adventure but feeling as if she has no choice but to keep moving forward, while Oscar was chosen by adventure but chooses to do what he can despite his circumstances; Oscar not knowing who he is because of the merge and asking: "I'm just going to be another one of his lives, aren't I?", versus Ruby not wanting to be who she is after chasing the the ghost of an unachievable ideal, but being asked "what if you could be anyone?"; how they're both just kids thrown into war and unfair responsibility before they even have a chance to figure out the kinds of people they want to be, etc.),

to perhaps, most importantly, the show of mutual support between the two of them.

Ruby supports everyone as best she can. She is always giving to and supporting others as a show companionship and leadership. But thanks to V9 and also E4 of RWBY Beyond, we know this was not sustainable or sufficiently reciprocated.

She was let down by Weiss who constantly managed to hit her right in her insecurities; let down by Blake who - even while trying to uplift her - just ended up adding more pressure by treating Ruby like a role model; to Yang and Qrow who both tried to support her as best they could, but kept comparing her to Summer in the process; to Penny having so much of her own lack of experience, stressors, and very immediate worries going on that she couldn't offer Ruby the support she needed even if she wanted to; to Jaune flipping his lid at her and pointing the blame even when he himself was guilty and knew he was out of line; to Ozpin, Qrow, Maria, Tai, Summer, Cordovin, Ironwood, etc., all being adults who could have taken responsibility or done the right thing, but fumbled or failed leaving her to pick up the pieces in their wake. But Oscar? We see it from Oscar's introduction that he - like their shared fairytale allusions - is in awe from the moment he meets her. But after one conversation about the weight of her grief, trauma, and the responsibilities she is carrying - a conversation she has not had with anyone else up to this point - he immediately sees how heavy Ruby's burdens are. Saying, as early as V5: "This must be really hard on her too". And while it is subtle, he never stops looking after her as best he can as the volumes go onward ("Looks like you're needed elsewhere."/"You're sure?"/"Yeah, I've got it."). However, it's only in V9 that her sister Yang is asking "why didn't she just talk to us?". It is only in V9 when her partner Weiss admits: "Maybe it's because she didn't feel like she could". It is only V9 when Ruby finally lays her burdens out to someone else again, this time to the Blacksmith, after almost having given up completely.

For a character who's 116 episode long arc has been about carrying the weight of responsibility far beyond her limits, never asking for anything in return no matter how difficult it gets... to meet another character that instantly notices her struggles and makes a conscious effort to help where all others have failed? To have one conversation and say "that looks heavy, let me help you carry that" without her asking or waiting for an answer? It's just one of the most beautiful acts of care I can think of. The themes and the parallels all resonate very strongly with me on a personal level, making it - in my humble opinion - a brilliant, and very stable foundation for a relationship, and for a story.

Thank you for your question, I hope I was able to offer some of the insight you were looking for. 💕

[anthurak]

So this is almost certainly going to be an unpopular opinion for some, but for a long time now I’ve been feeling that the RWBY fandom puts just a bit TOO much stock in the various fairytale/mythology/literary allusions of the characters when it comes to theory-crafting. It feels like people find out that a certain character A is an allusion to another character B from an already completed story and go ‘Well that must mean that Character A is going to turn out just like Character B!’

Which of course completely ignores that these are allusions and references. Ruby Rose might have strong parallels and similarities to Little Red Riding Hood, but that does not mean she IS literally Little Red Riding Hood. Just as Weiss Schnee is NOT literally Snow White, Penny Polendina is NOT literally Pinocchio and Oscar Pine is NOT literally the Little Prince. Ultimately, whatever allusion a character might have comes SECOND to who they are as an actual character, NOT the other way around.

Whatever allusions a character has might inform what could happen to them, but that should still be treated as secondary to what we actually see them do in the show.

For example, I see a LOT of ships in the RWBY fandom that people seem to largely use interpretations of the characters’ allusions as ‘evidence’, rather than what the characters actually DO in the actual SHOW. Like has anyone noticed that discussions of ships like Bumbleby, Renora, Nuts and Dolts or White Rose have historically not involved much interpretation (relatively speaking anyway) of the potential ‘complimentary allusions’ of these characters? Because there is no NEED to, because all the evidence for these ships is right fucking there on the screen. Meanwhile we’ve got ships (and I am NOT naming names) that people will swear up and down are TOTALLY going to be canon for really-realsies where most or even all of the ‘evidence’ consists of people effectively playing some kind of matching game with their allusions. Or saying nothing more than ‘Character A kinda-sorta resembles the love-interest of Character B’s allusion’.

And ALL of this doesn’t even take into account the biggest factor which I keep getting the impression that WAY too many RWBY fans still having gotten the memo on:

The fact that RWBY literally NEVER plays its allusions STRAIGHT.

All the way from minute one when we saw an allusion to Little Red Riding Hood cutting down a horde of Big Bad Wolves, RWBY has ALWAYS been subverting, inverting, flipping, twisting and otherwise playing it’s allusions, references and archetypes literally ANY way but actually STRAIGHT.

Little Red Riding Hood hunts the Big Bad Wolf. Snow White is equal parts Princess AND Knight in Shining Armor. Cinderella is a tragic villain origin story. Pinocchio was always a real girl. The Great and Powerful Wizard Oz is far more powerful than anyone thought, but is ALSO far more of a fraud than anyone thought.

So when people use these characters’ allusions as some kind of rigid road-map to theorize what might happen to them, it’s not just that this detracts from their identity as their own characters; the story itself isn’t even using that map!

I mean speaking personally, that’s what has always made RWBY theory-crafting FUN. Trying to guess how the writers might twist and flip the allusions they’re using. But that also means that the allusions of the various characters simply DON’T actually provide ANY kind of accurate ‘road-map’ for where they might be going. Instead, the best we can do is use what the actual show has actually shown us to get any kind of idea where the characters are headed.

Ultimately, I feel like too often I see that when people are making theories about RWBY characters, they are treating them more like the characters they are based on, instead of the characters they actually ARE.

[rwby-imagines-and-headcanons]

RWBY Love Languages (Part 1)

Ruby Rose - Physical Touch

Ruby has multiple ways of showing affection, but her favorite is definitely touch. Pouncing on you is her go to, unfortunately leading to you both falling. When you're together she is always touching you in some way. Although she can be hyper, after a long day, nothing feels better than gently melting into your arms (Also she is not adverse to PDA, so expect tons of hand holding and public kisses)

Weiss Schnee - Quality Time

It is well known that Weiss' family is not the most healthy, and it shows in her. As much as she is initially adverse to (but truly desires) affection in any way, quality time is the most important thing to her. The simple fact of you willingly choosing to spend time with her and stay by her side, despite everything, makes her emotional. Going on dates is her favorite thing in the world. Whether it's a candlelit dinner, balcony seats at an opera, or just a walk in the park, if it's with you she will do anything

Blake Belladonna - Quality Time

Blake has a lot of trust issues due to constant hurt and betrayal, so it will take a LOT for her to open up to you. But the way into her heart is just to stick it out and never give up. Eventually Blake will understand your intentions and let you in. Although it seems like you're always the one to initiate, secretly Blake always finds a way to "coincidentally" end up at the same place at the same time as you. Kinda like how cats pretend to not care but always follow you around

Yang Xiao Long - Quality Time

Yang has been abandoned multiple times, and it has taken a toll on her mentally. She is constantly worrying about when her loved ones will leave her, and that includes you. Spending time with her as much as possible will both quell her anxiety and make her heart race. As someone who knows how it feels to be abandoned, Yang wants to make sure you never feel that pain. She will never leave without letting you know, always promises to come back

Oscar Pine - Words of Affirmation

Due to his situation with Ozpin, Oscar has a lot of self doubt issues and problems with identity. His mind is always racing and it's never good thoughts. So having a partner that reassures him and comforts him is key. He appreciates every word you tell him, and sometimes writes them down in a notebook for when he gets really down

Penny Polendina - Physical Touch

Penny is still getting used to human interactions and relationships, so things may get a bit awkward. But although she struggles with most aspects, she excels in physical touch. Penny loves to feel your skin no matter the texture. It feels so unique to her! When she can't properly express herself or is lost for words, Penny will just quietly hold your hands and stare into your eyes

Jaune Arc - Words of Affirmation/Acts of Service

Jaune has been through a lot of pain the past few years, and needs a lot of healing mentally. Telling him you love him or complimenting him matter a whole lot to him. It boosts his self-esteem and makes him feel wanted and special. While he also returns the sentiment, Jaune prefers to do acts of service for his partner. He will happily give you a massage or do your laundry without prompt. And when it comes to defending you, Jaune is always on the front lines ready to die for you

Nora Valkyrie - Physical Touch

Nora is like Ruby, but amplified by x1000. She loves to cling to you like a koala and tease you. Although she has appreciation for chests, Nora is a butt fiend. She does not hesitate to slip in a slap or squeeze whenever she can, giving you a shit eating grin when you react. Nora also enjoys hugs a lot, and basically every hug she gives is a bone crushing bear hug (so get used to back pains). Sometimes though, when it's late and night and you both are tired, Nora will happily lean on your shoulder and fall asleep. A further way to make her melt is to gently trace your fingers along her Lichtenberg scars

Pyrrha Nikos - Words of Affirmation

Being such a well known figure, Pyrrha has problems making real connections with people. She always feels like people are trying to take advantage of her, but doesn't have the heart to object. But when it comes to you, whenever you compliment her or reassure her feelings, she knows it's genuine. Every word you speak fills her with warmth. And Pyrrha is always making sure to return the love and always talk to you and listen intently. This often leads to you two getting into compliment battles that always end in a stalemate

Lie Ren - Acts of Service

Being more introverted, Ren is kinda hot and cold with affection. He loves you with all his heart, but sometimes he just needs time alone, and you're happy to oblige! But when he's fully charged, Ren loves to do things for you. This mainly pertains to domestic skills like cooking and cleaning. He always makes sure to make you a delicious breakfast everyday with your favorite foods. And he does this with no expectation of reciprocation. He does this with all his loved ones, it's how he shows he cares. A lot of times he does it behind the scenes. Sometimes you'll come home to the trash taken out, your bed made, or a hole in your shirt sewn up in a heart shape (his favorite thing to do is leave cute love notes in your lunch bag)

Sun Wukong - Acts of Service

Sun is a himbo through and through, we all know this. He is incredibly open about his feelings and isn't afraid to show you how much he loves you. Doing things for you is his favorite thing to do to show his appreciation. No matter what it is, if you are looking for something Sun already has it. Car keys? Phone charger? Hot pocket? This man is READY. He tries to do other things like cook and clean for you, but uh... he ain't that good at it. He has definitely broken some lamps and started a couple kitchen fires. But Sun always means well and will happily do whatever he can to make you smile

Neptune Vasilias - Physical Touch

Although Neptune is known as a smooth talker, that's mainly for show with girls he meets for the first time. After actually getting into a relationship Neptune's true love language comes out. He really thrives on physical contact. It's great in general, but whenever he is anxious or scared it's even better. Neptune will instantly cling onto you and feel much better. But he is also known for being a bit possessive. Neptune is known for holding you by the hip when you walk, and proudly drapes his arm around your shoulders. He bagged a total masterpiece of a human, of course he's gonna show you off! PDA is a must and he always gives you little kisses throughout the day

Coco Adel - Gift Giving

As your local fashionista, Coco adores the finer things in life. And she feels like you deserve it all! She loves to gift you designer clothes, authentic jewelry, $1000 lobster dishes, fuck she once tried to buy you a puppy! It's gotten to the point where you have a whole room dedicated to her gifts. If you tell her to cool down a little she will, but will eventually get back into it. She doesn't understand why materialism is so looked down upon. Why shouldn't she and her partner enjoy expensive things?

Fox Alistair - Physical Touch

Despite his serious appearance, Fox is naturally very talkative (just ask his team) and always likes to joke and tease. And it's the same deal with his partner. Sometimes he kinda can't shut up. And although he tells you how much he a loves you a lot, the real way to show how he feels is touch. Fox is blind, and although he has an ADA device, he doesn't know how you look 100%. So he likes to just touch you all over, enjoying feeling your curves and edges and rolls. He likes it so much sometimes he will hold your face in his hands and just caress your cheeks for like 10 minutes

Velvet Scarlatina - Gift Giving

Velvet is naturally a bit more shy than the rest of her team, so when it comes to showing affection she gets very flustered. She isn't good with PDA and sometimes finds it hard to say what she feels. But Velvet is well versed in gift giving. She always pays attention to everything her partner says and makes note of all the things they desire. Pretty much all her gifts are perfectly tailored to you. She adores holidays and milestones, and always makes those days a whole ordeal with presents and date plans

Yatsuhashi Daichi - Acts of Service

Yatsuhashi is a very reserved person, and is not talkative, even with his loved ones. It's a mix of holding in his emotions and having self doubt about himself. So instead of saying what he feels, he prefers to use his actions instead. Yatsuhashi is very protective of his partner and does everything in his power to make them feel secure. He sees you as precious and never wants anything to happen to you. So he gladly does anything he deems too dangerous for you. Reaching things from high shelves, walking you across the street, this man would fight a damn bear for you. He isn't above just carrying you around either. You will always be safe and secure around Yatsuhashi

Neon Katt - Words of Affirmation

Jesus fucking CHRIST can she talk. You will never have a moment of peace while dating Neon, that's the unfortunate truth. But hey, that's what you signed up for. And it has it's perks! Neon never hesitates to gush about you and make you feel appreciated. She has definitely bragged about you in public, much to your embarrassment. She's just loves everything about you! (especially how hot you are) But don't be mistaken, everything you do is met with pure joy and admiration

Flynt Coal - Gift Giving

Flynt is a simple, suave man who knows he's smooth. He knows his voice makes you melt. But what he loves to do is give presents, especially unconventional ones. There are the standard flowers and chocolates, but Flynt really loves writing songs for you. Being able to express himself through music makes him feel whole. He puts all of his emotions into the sheet music, and every song is dedicated to you

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Ozpin - Quality Time

As the headmaster of Beacon, Ozpin doesn't have a lot of spare time. He's often busy and tied up in work. But also, his past as Ozma has made him live hundreds of years, and he's lost a lot of loved ones. He treasures time spent and wants to spend as much time as possible with the ones he loves. Whenever he is able, Ozpin will be with you as much as possible. Even if you are just existing in the same room, it's perfect for him

Glynda Goodwitch - Acts of Service

Glynda can be pretty abrasive, and a bit of a hard ass. But it really is from the toll of years at an academy of psychotic students. So honestly? Getting her a hot cup of tea or her favorite book when she comes home from work is one of life's greatest joys. Always being expected to fix any damage caused by her students, it's nice to have someone return the favor and give her a break. She'll always encourage you to sit down and join her, but definitely isn't complaining. To show appreciation she doesn't mind fixing stuff around the house in return, as it isn't expected of her. Now she can do it of her own will because she wants to. Keep pampering her and you will never have to call a handyman ever again

Bartholomew Oobleck - Words of Affirmation

You know how I said Neon can't stop talking? Jesus. Fucking. Christ. Oobleck is amazing, but he won't stop talking no matter what. Info dumping is one of his favorite things to do with you, especially if it has to do with interesting facts. He may be a motor mouth, but when he isn't spouting information, he is talking about you. Oobleck may seemed a bit scatterbrained, but he notices everything about you. He compliments you on the smallest things, often things you never notice. Oobleck likes everything about you and isn't afraid to let you know. He doesn't really have a filter when it comes to your relationship, so expect a lot of out of left field compliments

Peter Port - Acts of Service

This man is a MANLY MAN, and you will NOT FORGET THAT! He wants to prove to you that he is capable and worthy of your love, and he does that by doing things for you (whether you ask for it or not). He especially loves doing heavy work for you like moving furniture, chopping wood, and hauling away any Grimm that interupt your dates. Don't get it twisted though, it isn't that he thinks you are unable to take care of yourself or weak. He just naturally likes to show off and prove himself. And with you? Bruh he is always flexing to get your attention and make you blush (frankly though you tend to make him blush way more)

James Ironwood - Quality Time

Similar to Ozpin, Ironwood doesn't get a lot of free time to himself. Being a major general is hard work and tends to leave him drained. He knows he isn't around often and feels bad. So to make up for it, when you do have time together, he is 100% focused on you and you only. Ironwood wants you to know that he never forgets you when he's working. You're always in his mind 24/7. Sometimes when he has to stay super late, you like to surprise him by showing up at his office. His heart instantly starts beating faster, and he will wave you over for a long hug (and sit you on his lap if he's feeling super affectionate)

Winter Schnee - Acts of Service

As with Weiss, Winter has been severely damaged by her family. And her time in the military has only made more walls around her heart. Hell, it took forever for her to come to terms with her feelings for you. Winter is not good at expressing herself directly, so she likes to indirectly show her love by doing things for you. Anything you ask of her she will do with no hesitation. It's kind of her military training kicking in, it's pretty much ingrained into her. But it definitely isn't cause she feels obligated to, Winter cares about you and wants you to follow your "orders". She often denies it whenever you offer to do things for her. But if you do it anyways, she'll scold you... before giving you an awkward kiss and hug

Summer Rose - Quality Time

Summer is known to go off on her own quite a bit. She doesn't often explain why, but always makes sure to let you know she is coming back. And when she comes back she is spending the rest of the day with you. She loves to just sit around with you and talk about anything and everything. When she isn't going on missions, Summer tends to follow you around happily

Taiyang Xiao Long - Words of Affirmation

Taiyang has been through some heartbreak, so some uplifting words mean a lot to him. No matter what issues he is faced with, a good conversation with you will always lift his spirits. And this applies to even just casual small talk. He just likes talking to you, I mean it's as simple as that! And he always knows how to repay your kindness by being your number one fan. No matter what you're doing, Yaiyang is cheering you on from the sidelines!

Raven Branwen - Acts of Service

Raven is kinda... yeah. There are a lot of words to describe her, and most are negative. But one thing she excels at is using her actions. She may seem to not be around often, but usually she is behind the scenes doing small things for you. Raven uses her portals to keep an eye on you wherever you go, and makes sure you are safe and healthy. She keeps away any shady people, leaves you your favorite foods on your nightstand, kills any threatening Grimm, even adjusts your blanket while you sleep. It may seem like she doesn't care much for you, but whenever you notice your weapon polished, you know she does

Qrow Branwen - Physical Touch

Qrow is starved for attention in multiple ways, but mostly in physical touch. He was originally very flirtatious, but after all the shit he's gone through, he is definitely more subdued and anxious. While dating him, you can often find him questioning if he deserves you, and whether you will get hurt by his semblance. Words have a hard time getting to him, so the best way to calm him is to just... touch him. Hold him, stroke his face, play with his hair, cuddle him, anything. All of his worries wash away as he melts into your touch, and he becomes the most vulnerable man in the world. And whenever you seem down or upset, he instantly pulls you into a hug and rubs your back. Just... just hold this man okay? He deserves the world and all the kisses

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Well hello, here is my first post on this blog! I thought a good place to start would be Love Languages. A part 2 is coming out featuring allies (like the ace ops) and antagonists!

[thuskindlyshescatters]

For the RWBY ask game: 1, 13, 15, 17, 18, and 25.

Thanks for the ask <3

Favorite debunked fan theory: Qrow is Ruby's father and you can't change my mind xoxo

13. Best idea for a RWBY crossover: Some other "they're just kids" battle school anime would be sick, like BNHA. I actually have a huge soft spot for Angel Beats, and it might be cool to see them get isekaied to that kind of setting, similar to the Ever After.

15. Most nostalgic part of Poser animation: PERMANENT SHADING AND TEXTURE ON THE CHARACTER MODELS' UV MAPS I LOVE YOUUUUU. I also really prefer the eye designs in Volume 1. And shoutout to Pyrrha's chonky shoulders.

17. Theory for the Relic of Choice: I do believe that the Relic of Choice was shown in that Fairytales of Remnant short, implying that it lets you see the future of one of your choices. As for where it is, I think it would be cool if it was incarnated as Glynda.

18. Theory for the Relic of Destruction: I think people are thinking too inside-the-box about the Relic of Destruction -- like "oh, the Relic of Creation creates things, so the other must destroy," ignoring the fact that the Relic of Creation does miracles of all kinds. I wonder if the Relic of Destruction can, like, delete truths about the world -- make people forget about Salem, or erase someone's identity, stuff like that. Makes it way more formidable, imo.

25. Favorite trans character headcanon: Oh god, there's way too many to choose from. Oscar, Penny, Ruby, Ren and Nora all seem to be quite popular, and I concur. I'll add Qrow to that list. But if I had to pick a favorite, it would probably be Jaune -- the idea of Monty's harem protagonist antithesis character having these messed up ideas of masculinity because of internalized misogyny is scathing.

[hamliet]

I have noticed this volume has been mostly highlighting Penny and Oscar's bonds with Ruby. What do you think of this?

Well, Penny, Oscar, and Yang. And also Summer. Basically, all of Ruby's important people, and all of her foils, are present, because Ruby is being primarily asked "what are you?"

Who is she? Who does she want to be?

The reality is that we are all somewhat made up of our loved ones. They really are a part of us. So, Penny and Oscar of course reflect this.

Beyond that, I do think Penny, to a degree, represents Ruby's child self. People aren't wrong noticing the parallels between Penny and Little, who is also Ruby's childhood self. Growing up can be painful.

Penny is present, becoming the past. Oscar is the future. But Penny is also a part of that future.

Let me explain. Penny represents a part of Ruby's life that, like Summer, she can never get back. But that doesn't mean that it can't come with her. Think of Lewis, remembering Alyx.

Penny and Purpose

From the moment Little was introduced, they asked Ruby if:

to Ruby Rose... is your purpose?

And when Penny appears this volume, it's usually to do with Ruby's purpose of being a Huntress and of being a friend. Let's look at what Neo's Penny says to Ruby.

Penny: Just like you were too late to save me at the Vytal festival. I died in Atlas too, didn't I? Can you imagine what that's like? To be completely and utterly failed time and again by someone who meant the world to you?

Of course, this isn't Penny. This is illusion!Penny, Neo's interpretation of Penny. Penny spent her whole life having someone else speak for her, decide for her, until the only decision she could possibly make was in how she wanted to die. It's tragic and wrong, but it's not hopeless. It doesn't mean Ruby failed Penny.

But, Penny's whole tragedy was that people kept reducing her to her purpose. The Protector of Mantle. The Winter Maiden.

Now illusion!Penny reduces Ruby to her role as a friend and implies that Ruby was a bad one, when of course that is not true. Penny and Ruby adored each other.

Alas, Ruby thinks she failed Penny. Penny was suicidal and offered Ruby her power. She offered Ruby what she thought her value was--her purpose.

Ruby refused and became determined to make Penny human. Alas, Penny being human meant that she could die more easily (and permanently, and also, everyone who is human dies).

But, Penny's death was not a suicide. It was a murder in a battle, and no, her murderer was not Jaune. Her death was not about purpose, but about affirming herself as Penny Polendina, as a friend, as someone who loved her friends.

As @aspoonofsugar recently said:

Penny's destiny is friendship. So, when the time comes she chooses to fight to protect her friends, even if it means putting the relic and the Maiden powers in danger. When Cinder strikes her and Penny has to choose who should get the power she chooses Winter (who she wants) over Weiss (who needs the power at the most in that moment)... Penny spends the majority of her arc by trying to be the hero and to balance what she wants with what she must do. Still, in the end she chooses her friends over her duty as a Maiden.

I think knowing that, in the end, Penny did have the power to make her own choice about who she wanted to be, even if that choice was so cruelly limited, will give Ruby what Penny wanted for Ruby: hope. Penny believed in Ruby.

Oscar and Ruby Rose

Oscar's whole struggle in the story is his identity. He is terrified of losing himself, of becoming just another one of Ozpin's lives. Ruby is the one who tells him that he will be okay, who comforts him

Ruby: You're your own person.

In the Neo hallucination sequence, Ozpin then beats Ruby with a cane screaming that Ruby isn't cut out to save anyone. In other words, she is beat up by proof her words were wrong, and by the idea that Oscar Pine no longer exists. Only Ozpin does.

But in this scene, Ruby screams back at him, grabbing her scythe and--

Ozpin: How many more lives do you have to ruin before you realize you're not cut out to save anyone?

Ruby: NO!

What happens then? Turns out it's the exact same trick the Curious Cat pulls on Weiss the very next episode in getting her to "kill" Jaune this past episode (in case the parallels between Bumbleby, White Knight, and Rosegarden weren't immensely clear this volume.) Neo transforms into Oscar, showing Ruby that all her efforts to save herself actually just kill Oscar.

And all Oscar says to Ruby is her name.

Oscar: Ruby...?

Ruby isn't enough. Penny quotes Ruby's stated purpose (which is the same question Little asked her)--saving people. Oscar quotes her name as his dying words. Even if she can't save him, is it still enough to be herself?

The vision says no. Essentially, by using Oscar, Neo tells Ruby that she will never save anyone, and that being Ruby isn't enough. Even Oscar in the end will realize that, and it will kill him to realize it.

Losing Penny means that she will not be able to save Oscar--in fact, she specifically won't be able to save him from becoming Ozpin, since in trying to stop Ozpin from beating her she kills Oscar. It's not worth trying when it just hurts, and makes the people you love feel betrayed.

Ruby finally drinks the tea when, in her vision, Oscar dies. This is symbolic of Ruby's dreams for the future evaporating. Now, while I do think the story strongly indicates endgame Oscar/Ruby, I don't think Ruby is in any way ready for romance right now (as shown by her bewilderment over Bumbleby and missing Weiss flirting with Jaune while Yang and Blake tease Weiss over it).

But story-wise, Ruby seeing what she fears--someone she loves (because she loves all her friends) dying just like Pyrrha, just like Penny, just like Ironwood, just like Ozpin--convinces her she doesn't want to go on. When she believes she's killed her own future, she drinks the tea.

But none of it's true.

That isn't what happened to Penny.

Being Ruby Rose is going to be enough, even if she can't save everyone (and I do think later on, in the last volume, Ruby will face having to accept the loss of Oscar--only to then get him back because, well, it's like the oldest fairy tale trope in the books).

The memories of Ruby's loved ones--like Summer's weapon in the Blacksmith's vault--can inspire her to be herself. They don't have to punish her. They can be a cloud of witnesses cheering her on.

Side note: Oscar and Penny (and Yang when falling) masking Neo also (like again with the Cat using Pyrrha and Penny against Jaune and then masking Jaune with himself to trick Weiss) offers a thematic punch too. What if your enemy is your friend? What if your friend could be your enemy?

What if they're human, too, and matter to someone?

These are themes I very much expect to be explored in Vacuo, through Mercury, Emerald, and Cinder.

[theseerasures]

two questions going into the finale, and some possibilities for answers:

how can the Curious Cat go to Remnant?

it's clear that certain rules have to be followed--rules which seem to contradict. in rough chronology of how CC might have figured them out:

it has to be someone from Remnant. self-explanatory.

it has to be someone who WANTS to go back. Jaune was in the Ever After before Alyx and Lewis and (given how CC remembers all the way back to this world's sundering) CC probably knew about him before they encountered him with Alyx and Lewis. but at the time Jaune didn't want to leave, because he had to look for Team RWBY.

conjecture: it has to be someone who promises to take them along? this seems to be the operating theory with Alyx and Lewis. CC keeps harping on how ALYX said they could come, and how ALYX tricked them in a way they took very personally. would also explain why CC couldn't have just left with Lewis when Lewis left. so: Alyx promised she was leaving, and she could take CC, but then Alyx didn't want to leave, which in CC's mind also broke the promise. at this point it doesn't seem like possession is part of the plan to leave; they use the expression leave WITH.

humans are tricksy and change their minds, so CC will possess them to make sure they keep their promise. unclear on how CC knew how to do that, but the description we get is similar enough to how CC describes giving Herb a piece of their heart that it seems like an evolution of their power.

conjecture: starting with Alyx? it definitely seems like CC attacked Alyx in some way after Lewis leaves to try to MAKE her leave (and take them with her). that didn't work either, because...

sub-conjecture 1: like Neo, Alyx has no attachment back on Remnant? which seems impossible given her brother just went back there, so

sub-conjecture 2: the possession didn't take? because it seems like CC can only possess someone who is heartbroken and bereft of purpose--someone who needs to Ascend--and it seemed like Alyx already had a new purpose, and CC couldn't override that. which explains why it's so pressing for them to break Ruby out the tree before she gets a new purpose, too.

Ruby is the best chance for them to go to Remnant. Alyx wasn't a suitable vessel (and the process might have "broken" her in some way), and Neo is, but Neo has no reason to go back to Remnant. Ruby--before Ascension--fulfills both criteria, partly thanks to CC working her over this season. and CC obviously doesn't want to start from scratch because a) it's a lot of work and b) no one trusts them anymore.

what feels unresolved, to me, is the conundrum where once CC possesses someone, the vessel's identity--and presumably their attachments--are overwritten by CC's own, and it's clear that CC's own attachment to the Maker(s) is not enough to send them to Remnant. Neo is by all parameters an Afteran at this point, and CC doesn't think that will be true of Ruby, but i'm not as convinced. in fact, i'm not convinced that ANY of these rules are real; they could be as artificial as Jaune's schedule for the Paper Pleasers: crafted by CC in an attempt to circumscribe a world doesn't make sense. it's possible that the Gate, like the Tree, is a place you go once you are ready.

who will emerge from Ruby's cocoon?

well--Ruby, obviously. in much the same way Penny emerged from her old bodies, Ruby will be Ruby no matter what happens. wherever you go, there you are. WBY has pretty much confirmed it. but there are some gradations when it comes to what of herself Ruby gets to, or will WANT to, keep. CC said that Ascension doesn't work "like that" for people from Remnant, which is misleading at best and an outright lie at worst, so how will it work? and how will it stack up against other examples of reincarnation in the show (i.e., Ozma, the Maidens, Penny?)

HERE, I MADE A GRAPH:

(to be clear: i mean "evolution and regression" as discrete stages of being as determined by a previous incarnation. that's why Oscar and Cinder are at baseline, because their relationship with their previous incarnations is contested/nonexistent.)

(Herb doesn't have lines after his Ascension, but i assume from the imagery that he metamorphosed positively.)

touching on the extreme ends of each axis:

extreme one: Ruby returns with full memory. CC wasn't lying, EXACTLY, because Afterans don't come back with memories except those of the heart and for people from Remnant it's more like...when the Doctor regenerates. thematically appealing because it underscores how there is no easy way out of being yourself: Ruby's arc is ongoing, and the only way she can get that heart forged Fullmetal is through. she pops out with not much being different except probably a Vacuo-ready outfit, and has to reckon with both her own bitterness that this is all she gets, and reactions from her teammates in the way Renora got to react to Jaune in Volume 6.

extreme two: Ruby only remembers what her heart does. CC is a lying liar and Ascension works exactly the same. she's still Ruby at her core, but she doesn't have concrete memories of WHY she's like this. thematically appealing because Ruby has always been so burdened by the context for her existence, and here's her chance to be without that, only to find out that psych!!! she ends up speedrunning to become basically the same person. a side writerly perk would be it would heighten our hero's "out of the loop"-ness when they go back to Vacuo. interesting in terms of character dynamics as well, because WBY would still NEED to react to all this, but have to wrestle with whether this new Ruby deserves that, and with how much of a person's core is made up of their memories anyway. it'd be very Steven Universe, but...Ruby WILL need those memories back at some point. we've been following this version of her for too long.

extreme three: Ruby Ascends to become the person she always wanted to be. hey, apparently next episode is going to be really long! maybe she figures it out, or at least makes some in-roads toward it. it's not about attaining perfection--Penny's human form was decidedly imperfect--but about intent. Ruby never asked to be made, and now she is making herself. the possibility for evolution is there: the Paper Pleasers Ascended with a conscious, particular want, and they got exactly that. Herb's intent wasn't as clear, but presumably now he is better at helping people in the way he wanted. in order for that to happen, though, Ruby has to figure out what she WANTS, as opposed to the growing list of what she doesn't want.

extreme four: Ruby takes the easy way and decides to reset into Summer/her Beacon self/whichever. i'd certainly sympathize if she did. Ruby doesn't know what she wants, because she's never been allowed to want much of anything, and the Afteran with the closest dilemma to that was the Red King, who "couldn't cope with losing" and so defaulted to what he decided was most important, which was winning. in a way this extreme horseshoes back to the previous one: this would still be what Ruby WANTS to be, just...toxic. which, y'know: could be fun! and echo Jaune's whole deal this season. it would also be a huge bummer to end the season (and likely the series) on, but hey--that's the Atlas arc for ya.

[itsclydebitches]

Too a certain extent I honestly really like Ruby being battered mentally by the ghosts of ppl who died,,, I just wish it wasn’t so violent and attached to Neo. We’re in the Ever After, what’s stopping Ruby from making her way back to the garden and having a trip in Mushroom Gorge? What about her ending up in a new place that starts distorting reality? Now it suddenly makes sense for these characters to show up(minus, Lionheart, Clover, & Oz what are y’all doing here)(1/2)

On another post someone pointed out that Neo is basically just throwing all the trauma at the wall (Ruby) and seeing what sticks. Yeah, I get that, the idea makes sense to me... but it also doesn't make sense because why would Neo think that half of these people would successfully guilt-trip Ruby? As you point out, Neo shouldn't know that Penny has just died. She probably doesn't know that Ironwood is dead either unless she just assumes as much based on the wish. She doesn't seem to know anything about the Haven confrontation (Lionheart). She doesn't seem to know anything about Qrow's confrontation (Clover). And she knows Ozpin has not only reincarnated, but been traveling, very much alive, with Ruby. So if Neo is the catalyst for this attack, the attack should be centered around her knowledge:

Neo summons images of people she is 100% sure have died near Ruby. AKA Roman and Pyrrha.

Neo comes across new information in the Ever After that let's her expand her repertoire. AKA she overhears the girls discussing Penny's death.

Neo stupidly throws a bunch of random people from the "Maybe dead?" to the "They're maybe alive based on what I know, but they stood near Ruby once!" category and we get a moment where Ruby is legitimately confused about so-and-so's appearance. Maybe, like while falling through the Ever After void, Neo just cycles through people until she hits some jackpot.

Or, better yet, make this about Ruby's journey, not Neo's revenge. Yeah, Ruby can wander back to the mushroom garden, or stumble across a new form of magical insight, or deal with the Ever After manifesting her guilt, etc. and then suddenly anyone can show up because it's all stemming from our protagonist. Penny is there. Pyrrha is there. Roman is there as the first real death she's witnessed (I believe Ruby came in just after Penny has been dismembered). Ozpin is there blaming her for his latest death and saddling Oscar with his soul. Ironwood is railing against her for abandoning him - do you even know if I made it out? Do you believe that everyone else is safe? Clover and Lionheart I'd still be side-eyeing, but at least Ruby has met them.

It's by no means a bad idea but - as usual - it's horrendously executed. Beyond everything already stated, I also feel like things happened too fast? The whole scene is massively uncomfortable to watch (deliberately so) and yet despite how horrible it is, I still find myself going, "That's it? Really? Two days of depression and you're ready to die?" Given how long it's taken to get Volume 9 and the length of each season in general, I think a lot of fans have forgotten that it was literally like 72 hours ago that we had a confident, hopeful, "That was before you trained us" Ruby Rose. Yeah, obviously she's suffered some huge blows in the last few days, but it's still wild to me that Neo's revenge arc succeeded in getting Ruby to commit identity suicide through, again, a group of semblance people with tenuous connections to her guilt, after just a few days of grappling with these feelings. If we're going to go that route, at least let these manifestations be stemming from Ruby, rather than a villain's plans that work because the plot says they need to.

[tumblingxelian]

Ruby’s Complicated Relationships - Penny & Oscar

This is a think piece about how Ruby's relationships be they friendship or romantically coded, with Penny & Oscar often get held up as sort of ideal and how I feel that doesn't exactly work. This is not to hate on the characters or ships, this to me just makes them more interesting than being totally wholesome and chill. I'll go into Penny first: She & Ruby's relationship is indeed very sweet, friendly and good.

But its also got some problems rooted in the fact both of them have savior complexes that could crush a whale. This doesn't lead to mutual understanding of the shared trait however, as their issues are tied to different sources even if the result is similar.  But more to the point, when they see the other laboring under the burden of their own issues, their response is less "Oh this is bad for both of us" and more, "Don't worry, you're not responsible for fixing every problem in the world, I am!" In essence, their relationship is inadvertently always a race to see who can martyr themself first. It still good but this is a hurdle they'd need to clear at some point.  Then we have Oscar: Often compared to Ruby due to also being a young leader struggling with a heavy burden and him noting things must be hard on her, I do get it, I just think it also misses some key points. First and foremost, Oscar's burdens and Ruby's are very different. 

Despite what Ozpin says about Oscar wanting more, he still had this position thrust upon him, while Ruby has chosen to do it again and again. But more to the point, Oscar's issues with his circumstances are his identity being eaten by the guy inside his head, while Ruby's are living up to impossible standard and endless duty. 

Plus, Oscar is fine blending into the background and while frustrated if his ideas don't work he doesn't take them to heart too much, see Ironwood. Ruby feels she is responsible for everything, be it due to herself, Ozpin or her own allies and she's fraying under the weight. Then there's the "This must be hard on her too" which is a good line, but I feel the idea this means Oscar can see the burden Ruby is under more clearly than the others doesn't work. Mostly cos he seems to have fallen for her front the same as everyone else, even begging her to wake up because she's needed just like Blake did. Conclusion: Thus, while they are all good friends and can do a lot for each other, I feel their relationships are more nuanced than often presented.

[lacependragon]

Management of Your Time at Patch

Fun Story Facts So Far:

No that's not the final title! I have no idea what to call it though

Everybody is fucking trans! If they're not trans chances are they're in a relationship with a trans person or have a VERY complex relationship with gender.

All of STRQ is alive. And happy.

Ruby is currently working on an alchemical thesis to get a doctorate.

Unapologetically a love letter to polyamory in many ways.

Ruby is 21. Oscar is 19. Everyone is adults. It's awesome

They/them Ruby supremacy.

"Wally, why is everyone trans?" Because only transgender people survived the apocalypse and we made sure to use our terrible Trans Juice to make everyone born after that trans, no matter what. No but seriously it's because it's wish fulfillment. Get off my dick.

Ship Plans:

Ruby Rose/Penny Polendina

Blake Belladonna/Yang Xiao Long/Ilia Amitola

Flynt Coal/Neon Katt (queerplat)

Jaune Arc/Nora Valkyrie/Pyrrha Nikos/Lie Ren

Yatsuhashi Daichi/Fox Alistair/Velvet Scarlatina

Velvet Scarlatina/Coco Adel (yes both, it's a triad and a couple and Velvet links them and it's all cool)

James Ironwood/Qrow Branwen

Summer Rose/Taiyang Xiao Long/Raven Branwen (established)

Ghira Belladonna/Kali Belladonna (established)

Hei "Junior" Xiong/Roman Torchwick (established)

Arthur Watts/Tyrian Callows

Sun Wukong/Neptune Vasilias/Weiss Schnee

Clover Ebi/Marrow Amin

Li Ren/An Ren (established)

Hazel Rainart/Emerald Sustrai/Mercury Black

Whitley Schnee/Oscar Pine

Robyn Hill/Fiona Thyme

Winter Schnee/May Marigold

Neopolitan/Cinder Fall

Terra Cotta/Arc/Sapphron Cotta Arc (established)

...and possibly more.

No Seriously Look At All These Trans Characters:

Blake - trans woman, she/her

Jaune - trans man, he/him

Nora - trans woman, she/her

Oobleck - trans man, he/him (and 52!)

Penny - trans woman, she/her

Ren - agender, they/them

Ruby - genderqueer, they/them

Terra Cotta-Arc - trans woman, she/her

Raven - trans woman, she/her

Taiyang - trans man, he/him (and yes this combination makes Ruby a Summer/Raven baby and Yang a Raven/Taiyang baby and so Ruby and Yang share Raven as a genetic parent, not Taiyang) (Also "why does Ruby look so much like Qrow?" Because Raven and Qrow are identical twins in this universe, next question)

Neopolitan - trans woman, she/they

Velvet - trans woman, she/her

Neptune - trans man, intersex, he/him

Oscar - trans man, he/him

Ozma - no gender, they/them

Fox - trans man, he/him

Vine - genderfluid, he/she/they depending on the day

Winter - trans woman, she/her

Whitley - trans man, he/him (yes this means Whitley/Oscar is t4t)

this might expand but you know it's my world I can do what I want.

Please enjoy.

[phoenix-fell]

well giving that ruby goes through the same depression as penny (not knowing who they are anymore and believing that it will be best if they just disappeared) i can see her talking with penny about that when she will come back

another point i also belive in is that Pietro will sacrifice her last aura and life to bring penny back, it will be tragic but it will will show penny just how much important she is to her friends and family

also when ruby fall to the ever after she heard penny in her head, unlike with pyrrha, she didn't know penny died yet and the tone in penny voice was different with each yelling, i think she is in ruby head, i can see it happening as a result of her thinking about both ruby and winter and she got split: the power got to winter and the soul to ruby

(also i don't like the idea of penny and winter sharing a body - unless there are ways to get her out of winter without splitting the maiden power having her to come back with the maiden power (even if it half of it) would put her though problem she had in v8)

I do think Pietro would definitely want to sacrifice the last of his aura for sure - it's just that I'm unsure he'd be able to because he was only able to the first time because they recovered her core from Amity, whereas this time round it was corrupted by the virus and then disappeared when they made the central location. So I guess it's possible if he made her from scratch? But it would make a complicated situation with the maidens and she'd kinda be back to square one as a robot, unless they were able to extract her somehow from Winter? Idk. Like I said, I think it will just be difficult to execute without being too problematic to the narrative.

However, I do really like the idea of her being in Ruby's head as well. I was really intrigued by the prospect of the maiden powers possibly being split between Ruby and Winter, it would be interesting to see how that played out. I don't know whether they can avoid Penny being part of Winter because of the way v8 ended, but it'll probably lead into a nice parallel between her and Ozpin/Oscar's situation so maybe there's a solution for both of them.

I would like to see some form of conversation between Ruby and Penny about identity. I know Ruby had a good arc this volume but she probably hasn't fully dealt with losing her best friend, I do think they'll circle back to Ruby and Penny at some point through volume 10. I think Penny would be the one to give Ruby that last assurance to get things done.

[longroadstonowhere]

so, back on my analysis of rwby through the story of the four maidens (aka why i keep saying next volume is gonna be the start of ‘summer’)

the show is split into three-volume arcs, and each of these arcs is ruled by a season - we started with fall, moved into spring, and are now finishing up winter; obviously some amount of this is true just based on the maidens each arc focused on, but it draws back to the original maidens, as well, and their fairy tale

we’ll take them in show order, not fable order, so fall, spring, winter, summer

fall’s moral was to be thankful for the things that you have, and we can see this reflected in how, once fall ends, they had so much at beacon to be thankful for that they weren’t even aware of - a secure place to be children in, where the biggest conflicts were the school bully and not getting along with a teammate (the conflicts with roman were in fact outside this sanctuary), and when the fall maiden candidate is killed, suddenly there seems to be so little to be thankful for

spring’s moral was to nurture new life, but also to ‘stop and smell the roses’ (direct quote from the fairy tale book, which is what i’m basing current analysis on because i don’t feel like hunting down and watching the in-show clip of the story being told); here we have new life in team rnjr, yang choosing to work through the loss of her arm to shore up her family, ozma’s spirit finding new purchase in oscar, and we also have the revelation of salem and her past - new life for the group’s goals and ambitions; there’s also blake’s extended time on menagerie which feels ‘smell the roses’ to me

and this brings us to winter, the time of self-reflection and contemplation, which is why the last few volumes have all been about identity - everyone is finally a licensed huntress, but what does that really mean? can they afford to act like children and wait for an authority figure to tell them what to do, or do they need to lead the way themselves? was penny a robot, a maiden, a girl tied down by the strings others kept pulling? and of course, the extended identity crisis we’ve been seeing in the ever after - yang and blake finally identify and resolve what their relationship means to each other, but jaune and ruby are tearing themselves apart from the pressure they’ve been put under

so what will summer bring? according to the book, the moral of summer is to take an active part in the world around you, not to keep yourself apart at a distance, which suggests our team will be returning to remnant, stronger for the contemplation they’ve been going through, and most likely will be attempting to forge a stronger connection between not just themselves and the world, but most likely salem as well - after all, salem has been holding herself apart from the world ever since ozma originally passed away, so who else could need this lesson the most?

[swapauanon]

My Opinions on RWBY: Volume 9: As A Whole

Okay so, let's start with this: Is RWBY Volume 9 the best Volume yet?

And the answer is, no. Volume 7 is still peak RWBY.

It is, however, a very close second.

Volume 9 has a lot going for it, from its writing, to its surreal animation, to the culmination of Ruby's arc, there are very few things wrong with it. LIke, if not for one character, this would be the best Volume yet.

Unfortunately, it has to follow-up on V8C14, the worst episode of the show ever made, and thus it ends up being held back by retreading ground we've ALREADY COVERED in the Mistral Arc thanks to Jaune's presence. Volume 8 had been building up Nora finding herself and carving out her own identity, but because Jaune fell into the Ever After instead of her, we instead get a sad old man feeling sorry for himself and refusing to take responsibility for his own choices.

The fact that nobody calls him out for his verbal abuse of Ruby still has me hoping someone will deck him.

His ship tease with Weiss was absolutely infuriating though. As mentioned before, one of the key facets of Weiss' character is that she is NOT attracted to him. A well-written Weiss would be NAUSEATED to discover her first fictional crush was Jaune all along!

At the very least, they toned the shiptease DOWN from what they had originally planned, so it's only a couple of moments instead of the focal point of Weiss' arc. The fact that they chose to de-age him has me worried that they're planning on making it endgame and realized how creepy the pairing was with Jaune looking his actual age, but I'm HOPING someone on the writing team comes to their senses and realizes how sleazy this entire thing is and cuts that romance arc ENTIRELY in future Volumes.

Volume 9 could have been great, but Jaune's presence means it has to settle for merely being good instead.

The Soundtrack, thankfully, is pretty stand-out, with Quiet being the only song I can't at least remember the FEEL of. It has its own unique style I struggle to put into words.

The antagonists are also all pretty good.

I like how the Ever After is portrayed as a threat to our heroes, up until Neo makes her first move in the episode set at the market, at which point we get a shift to how humans can be a threat to the Ever After. Admittedly, we only get two episodes of this before Ruby's clash with Neo, but it is a neat change of pace while it lasts.

I also appreciate the hints at Penny's revival. I still hold the opinion that it would be terrible writing to end her arc on the note it closed on in the Volume 8 finale, so all of the hints at Penny returning in the future feel well earned.

The new world-building also feels great, and we have a means to separate Ozpin and Oscar, as well as get around Salem's curse. We just need to find a way BACK into the Ever After.

The final battle at the Tree was great, and I loved Ruby's chats with the Blacksmith.

And also, there's the Bumbleby kiss. The framing of that part of the episode was great, and the fact that it was used to hint at Nuts & Dolts (via Ruby's own reaction to it) was also appreciated. It feels like the perfect level of grandiosity attached to the kiss that's been built up for so many years. The music was beautiful as well, and the animation did a good job of taking advantage of the Ever After's surreal animation.

As much as I hate Jaune's presence, his reveal as the Rusted Knight was a good moment.

Oh yeah, I brought up that the antagonists were pretty great, but then didn't explain my thoughts at them.

The Red Prince and the Peddler are great as villains of the week and setting up the Ever After's rules. The Herbalist works well as an example of how someone can unwittingly cause harm while trying to be helpful. Jaune's tenure as an antagonist was brief, and I feel like he got off FAR too lightly for the role he played in Ruby's breakdown and suicide attempt (as he actively and DELIBERATELY tore her down MORE just to make himself feel better), but I like how he served mostly as an example of how humans can hurt the Afterans, more an antagonist to the Paper Pleasers than he is to Team RWBY.

But then there are the Big Bad level threats: The Jabberwalker, Neo, and the Curious Cat.

Firstly, I love how each "new" Big Bad ends up taking out the previous one in order to establish themself as more threatening.

The Jabberwalker, in spite of being a MASSIVE threat to the Ever After, only menaces the heroes ONCE and is anticlimatically taken out by Neo's Semblance evolution in its next appearance. Team RWBY only learns its a Big Bad level threat AFTER Neo has disposed of it.

Neo's tenure as central antagonist is a good culmination of her storyline since her introduction, and I like that you don't have to read Roman Holiday to get the gist of her backstory from the paintings and the smoke. It's also nice to finally see her Semblance reach its full potential. Her Jabberwalker clones also allow for the Volume to have an analogue to the Grimm encounters of previous Volumes in a world without Grimm. Her being left feeling hollow after finally achieving her revenge also feels perfect, as she had based her entire identity on getting revenge. With that gone, she had nothing.

The Curious Cat works amazingly as the Big Bad, mostly in how they feign friendliness to Team RWBY. You can even see all the ways they manipulate and wear away at Ruby in the episodes prior to their reveal, when they begin openly antagonizing the heroes. Also, the way they possessed Neo was insanely creepy.

Speaking of, I like how they used Maya's default texture with Neo's eyes while she was getting possessed. That was a great way to take advantage of something built into the engine matching up so well with the Curious Cat's aesthetic.

And then there's the Volume 9 animatic.

First of all, I'm hoping Jax gets a redemption arc. Team RWBY are currently alligned with his abuser, Theodore.

Secondly, Neon/Nora shiptease? It's not a pairing I'd ever think up, but if my aroace Lie Ren interpretation ends up being canon...

Good to see Ozpin doing everything he can to buy Oscar time by helping him fight off the merge.

Salem's relocated from Evernight to Vale, which could imply she's using Beacon as her headquarters now.

I don't get why they'd cure Winter's paralysis. They have so few disabled heroes, so it feels WRONG to get rid of Winter's disability now that she's on the side of good. It'd be like if Yang's arm grew back, or they shoved Penny into a flesh body she never asked for. (Wait, they actually did that second thing.) Tune in next time when Fox's eyes are "fixed"! (Apollo DNI.)

As for the ending, I still stand by what I've said previously, Raven is not entitled to Yang's time or forgiveness, and the healthiest thing for Yang to do for herself would be to call Raven "Branwen" instead of "Mom". Raven is not her family.

But back on topic, in spite of Jaune's best efforts, this is a real step up from Volume 8!

Here's to Volume 10 being even better!

[powerbottomblake]

the P in Penny stands for (V8′s) Protagonist

So Monstra! Interesting name! Reminiscent of Monstro, the name of the whale from Disney’s Pinocchio (1940).

This confirms that the whale is indeed, here to complete Penny’s Pinocchio allusion. In other terms, Penny is the protagonist of this volume. The main conflict is her conflict; taking down the whale is her endgame and her turning point.

More undercut because apparently I am cursed with not knowing how to make brief and to the point meta

We know that RWBY uses the narrative beats of the original allusions (with some decisive tweaks that align with its overall hopepunk vision and themes), going as far as having direct visual parallels to the source material (Adam vs Bees fight/the original Beast vs Gaston fight anyone?). 

In the original Pinocchio movie, Pinocchio is tested three times before finally achieving becoming a little boy, and I think, likewise, Penny faces three tests before becoming a fully flledged huntress and maiden:

- Setback n°1: Pinocchio, still new to the world, the very concept of morality but eager to “do good” and willing to listen to Jiminy Cricket’s guidance, is tricked by a duo of conmen; in the movie, it’s into captivity, but the original story takes a much darker turn where the evil cat and fox - one pretending to be blind (Emerald and her perception bending Semblance) and one pretending to be a cripple (Mercury) - actually cause Pinocchio’s “death” through hanging (the author abhorred naughty children and was very...extreme about it). This is V3 Penny in a nutshell, discovering friendship and bonds and values through her own Jiminy, which is Ruby, but being set up by Mercury and Emerald to fight a losing battle that ends in her apparent “death”.

- Setback n°2: Pinocchio is embarked on a trip to Pleasure Island, an apparent playground especially catered for everyone to be happy! and have fun! but oh wait they’re actually being turned into jackasses geared for labor or sold to the Dust I mean the salt mines! You’ve guessed it, this is Penny’s V7 arc. Atlas Academy is Penny’s Pleasure Island, masquerading as a safe place where  but the veneer of Ironwood’s civility and apparent conflicted utilitarianism finally cracks to reveal how it’s ultimately a place of indoctrination, producing no actual people-serving Hunters but perfect soldiers concerned more with following orders than doing right, and where the disadvantaged and the poor are ostracized, taken advantage of and ultimately sacrificed. Pinocchio escapes Pleasure Island with Jiminy’s help, but not unscathed, having grown donkey ears and a tail. Likewise, with Ruby’s help and constant strong supportive presence, Penny proves herself fit to receive the maiden powers and escapes Atlas, but she’s still not completely free of Ironwood’s hold, still having to grapple with his and the AceOps’ manipulation tactics, still not sure what her role, who she is and how she fits really are. Which bring us to the third and last test:

- Setback n°3: the Whale. In the original movie, Gepetto gets swallowed by the whale when he tries to follow Pinocchio to Pleasure Island to save him. Pinocchio then dives in, saves Gepetto and, in the process, apparently “dies”, before finally earning his existence as a “real” little boy after that show of bravery and self-sacrifice. And I think these are the beats to look for in Penny’s V8 storyline. As of Episode 3, Penny is about to join Pietro and Maria, and there have been strong hints (and by that I mean we were basically hammered over the head) that she’s about to be “hacked” by Watts. How do the original narrative beats play out? Here’s how I think it fits:

Gepetto is swallowed by Monstro: After Penny is effectively “hacked” and by that I mean that while her soul and spirit remain unchanged, Watts hacks into the mainframe and forces her to surrender control over her body the same way we’ve seen her do (but willingly) for Pietro. Penny essentially ends up trapped inside her own body as it follows Watts’ commands. I suspect Watts will force her to take Pietro and Maria (who’s of interest to Salem by being one of the last remaining SEW, and I strongly suspect her soul/aura could be used to make more of whatever the Hound is, but this is a whole other matter to delve into in a separate post) to Salem.

Pinocchio dives in to save his father and takes down the whale: I think Pietro and/or Ruby will appeal to Penny/be in enough danger that she will snap out of Watts control on her own, effectively reclaiming her bodily autonomy on her own and then creating a mayhem big and terrible enough with her powers that will take down the whale and give everyone else enough time to escape. This will be Penny’s heroic moment and her stand. Right now, everyone is making the mistake of having people protect the maiden powers. Penny realizes what makes her a maiden is to use those powers to protect the people; it’s a decision she makes on her own that cements her as a true Maiden and a hero of the people.

Pinocchio “apparently dies” but is then granted his wish and becomes a “real” little boy: Here I think Penny takes down the whale but goes down with it. We don’t see her die again onscreen (I think it would be overkill to show her “corpse” a second time and would cheapen her dying at all. In general I am wary of the resurrection trope being overdone or coming without a cost because it severely undercuts the emotional payoff of a death), but I think by the end of V8 she’s MIA (which would make her the second person Ruby loses that way, but also the first to return to her so). I think Penny uses her powers to stall Monstra, and I’m willing to bet good money that whatever Penny does next has to do with the Gravity dust that keeps Monstra afloat. The thing with Gravity dust is that, it does push things off the ground, but it can also pull things towards it. I think whatever number Penny pulls on the gravitational field ends up pulling her down in that sillage as well.

I know the popular theory is that Penny “dies” again and Pietro sacrifices his life to resurrect her one last time, and I can see it happening, but here’s the thing: RWBY subverts popular tropes, exploring new (and more hopeful!) paths. Just look at Qrow: RWBY said, oh the mentor figure, scarred and haunted by his past? is not just another stepping stone whose death cements the hero on his journey, but becomes a character with a drive of their own, and an arc of their own, and who gets to pass the torch and live to see it burn well and bright and to the end. Gepetto lives and mourns the apparent death of his son but is there to welcome him home when, rewarded for courage and abnegation, Pinocchio earns the right to become a human boy. I think Pietro, too, will live, and get to welcome a Penny that has finally earned the right to call herself Mantle’s Protector, no longer Ironwood’s puppet (heh) nor an extension of her father but an actual established hero of the people, around whom Mantle can rally and who can work with the right people (Robyn and the Happy Huntresses) for the right reasons and outcomes, people and reasons she herself chooses and decisions she herself makes and a power she’s reclaimed and accepted and knows how to use. 

Penny’s quest has always been one of identity, slowly transforming from getting her bearings and realizing what makes her humanity is her soul, her ability to develop and deepen and protect her bonds to people and her natural empathy and kindness (V3′s ”am I worthy of calling myself human, too?”); to navigating morality, the nuances of doing good and the need to make her own calls and judgement of what is right and wrong (V7′s “who should I protect? what should I follow?”); to now, having established that she’s worthy of being one, Penny still has to find how to be a maiden, what that role entails for her and how she can finally fit as herself and into this new role, 100% reclaiming herself, her body (even from Pietro!!), her title and her mission. V8 (and maybe onwards) is the culmination of Penny’s identity journey, and I see it playing very much as an Iron Giant moment.

“You are who you choose to be,” says RWBY (and Ruby!) to Penny.

“Superman A human, and a hero, and a maiden” will be her answer.

And just like the Iron Giant, Penny saves the world, and rises again.

[maripr]

I think it's very good that both Penny and Oscar:

are associated with green and orange but also gold

share souls with an older parental figure who can take control of their body, changing their eye colors in the process, and both of them don't like this very much

have hereditary powers bestowed on them

have identity and self-discovery as a central theme in their narrative

have trust and faith as the core of their Atlas arc narratives

are both treated by puppets by the bad guys, to the bad guys' detriment

Bonus:

they're both in a polyamorous relationship with Ruby Rose uwu

(i was always Very Emotional over their parallels, but then i saw @aspoonofsugar pointing out that Penny's aura color when she gets a human body is GOLD and I haven't been the same since).

[hamliet]

Weiss and Jaune: Chemical Wedding 2.0

Weiss and Jaune have begun another chemical wedding this season, and it parallels the second chemical weddings of Ren and Nora and Blake and Yang (Ruby and Oscar have still thus far only had their first).

Okay, okay, I'll back up. I previously wrote this about chemical weddings in RWBY. A chemical wedding is massively important for alchemy stories. It can be platonic, but is most often romantic. RWBY has, in particular, been using direct inspiration from classic alchemical art to illustrate when they've had one.

This scene in RWBY Volume 9 is no different.

Lyndy Abraham notes that

the chemical wedding... [has] the lovers frequently personified by Sol, and Luna, sun and moon. Edward Kelly wrote In this art you must wed the sun and moon.

Herb has a sun and moon symbol on him. Look at his chest. (Link goes to the more simplistic version, but the combined sun/moon is in the image below, from Manly Palmer Hall manuscript 14).

Not only that, but the framing emphasizes that Jaune is Sun and Weiss is moon. Jaune is in the sunlight. Weiss stands in the shadows. In alchemy, shadow is associated with the moon.

Chemical weddings also almost always involve elements of death. In fact, it is death as "Mercurius" that often unites them; in RWBY this is frequently an antagonistic character. Adam for Bumblebly, the Nuckelavee for Renora, and previous Cinder and now the Curious Cat for Weiss and Jaune.

For those who have had two weddings so far, Bumbleby and Renora, we see that their first and second chemical weddings were inverses of the first. Blake and Yang were first targeted by Adam and hurt. Then, they fought Adam and defeated him together. Ren and Nora saved each other but had to leave their village. Then, Ren and Nora defeated the Nuckelavee together.

In Weiss and Jaune's, Cinder taunted Jaune about letting Pyrrha die and about his own sense of self-importance/identity.

Jaune: What is wrong with you...? (seething) How can you be so broken inside... to take so many lives, and then come here and rub it in our faces like it's something to be proud of?!...

Cinder: (chuckling) I'm starting to remember you, you're the dense one that can't tell when he's out of his league....

Cinder: You're just a failure with a death wish.

Cinder also tells Jaune "are you going to let [Weiss] die too?" in reference to Pyrrha. She slides her gaze towards Weiss before throwing the spear at her. Guess what the Cat does?

The Curious Cat also taunts Jaune by appearing as Penny, and then as Pyrrha, mocking him with the two women whose deaths he feels responsible for. Plus, the dialogue between the Cat and Jaune reads very familiar.

Jaune: You... you didn't. You MONSTER... you were the one who killed--who LIED--

Curious Cat: You were never a brave knight either! Just more fairy tale nonsense!

Except, instead of Cinder hurting Weiss to hurt Jaune, this time the Cat gets Weiss to hurt Jaune directly.

These are all references to this classic chemical wedding art:

And this one depicting a chemical wedding occurring at a tree from a 17th century Speculum Veritatus (which, for what it's worth, means "Mirror of Truth" in Latin, and Weiss's song is called Mirror, Mirror... that's quite possibly a coincidence but it's so funny I had to mention it).

Anyways, chemical weddings typically involve most of the elements. This takes place on a tree (earth), Weiss shoots fire at him, and Jaune lands in a plume of purple air. We've got (most of) our elements.

What happens next? Well, each chemical wedding signifies a change in relationship. Ren and Nora embark on a journey together as kids, then hold hands. Bumbleby run away from each other (separation is a part of the process) and then start a romantic attachment before their final elevated chemical wedding this season (which we still haven't had for Renora yet). Weiss and Jaune become friends and start hanging out after the first one. I would bet this kickstarts a romantic attachment, especially since we've had a couple hints of Weiss developing attraction to Jaune this season.

Besides, Jaune's whole arc has been about being remade and refined from lead into gold. He healed Weiss in the last chemical wedding; I would bet Weiss heals him in a sense this time, but also that Jaune does in fact get remade into something fully gold this time... (and also someone young lol; he's clearly not staying old). Jaune getting a new body during a chemical wedding? Is also, well, alchemically sound.

Lyndy Abraham notes:

The separation of the soul from the body is to free it from its age-old attachment to the body so that it can transcend the turmoil and pull of the merely natural forces of matter. The separation of the soul is a kind of "death" to the world.... the subsequent reunion of this spiritual awareness with the new, purified body means that knowledge gained in a higher state of consciousness can now be put into action, made manifest in the phenomenal world. At this point the male and female energies are united and balanced...

Jaune and Weiss should be able to enter the world of Remnant in a new kind of equilibrium, a la Bumbleby and Renora in the past.

[aspoonofsugar]

Hi! I really enjoy reading your metas and started watching (well, binging) RWBY recently because of you, and I was wondering if it would be okay to ask for an Oscar Pine analysis? He ended up being one of my favourites, but getting into the fandom I was sort of sad to see there wasn't much meta/analysis to be found of his character and wondered if you had any thoughts to share?

Hello anon!

I am very happy you are enjoying RWBY thanks to my metas and I love Oscar too!

Personally, I think that his arc has still to enter its climax though, so this is why I have not been writing much about him myself. Let’s say that I am waiting for his foiling with Ruby (which is set up) to be properly explored.

As for now, I can share some thoughts on Oscar and also point you to @misstrashchan blog which is full of cool oscar’s meta :). @hamliet’s alchemy metas may interest you as well since she has predicted Oscar will be very important to the story because of his alchemical motif.

Anyway, here we go with some miscellanea thoughts on Oscar.

BASIC PREMISE AND THEMES

Oscar is bound to be very important to the story to the point that even if he appears later on, his existence is foreshadowed pretty early:

Blake: Well... i-it's about a man with two souls, each fighting for control over his body.

Blake’s line also summarizes Oscar’s main conflict in the series:

Oscar: I'm not upset that you left. I'm upset you came back. I started to feel like me. Not the same me I was before all of this, but… the me I always wanted to be.

Oscar is struggling to become his own person.

On one hand he doesn’t like who he is and wants to change:

Oscar: I always knew that I wanted to be more than a farmhand, but this? Who would ask for this?

On the other hand he is scared of becoming just one of Ozpin’s lives and to lose himself completely:

Oscar:  I'm just going to be another one of his lives, aren't I?

In short, he is scared of who he might become:

But our greatest fear will be realized If we fall and lose ourselves to fear We've become what we feared all our lives Who will you see? There in the darkness When no one is watching Who will you be? When you're afraid And everything changes Will you see a stranger? Feel proud or betrayed?

It is a struggle linked to self-identity which is a key topic in a coming of age story, like RWBY is.

Symbolically, him and Ozpin’s relationship calls back to a parent-child one in the sense that the child must learn from the parent, but in the end he must also claim his own agency.

We see it in Oscar’s story with him initially following Ozpin’s lead, but later on becoming the one in charge much more than Ozpin.

I would also like to highlight that a child-framed character struggling to become their own person and self-actualizing is a recurring motif in RWBY.

We see it with Penny:

Pietro: I lost you before. Are you asking me to go through that again? No. No. I want the chance to watch you live your life.

Penny: But dad… I am trying to.

She loves Pietro and understands that he wants to protect her, but still wants to make her own choices.

Then there is also Ruby, whose main trauma centered around her mother Summer Rose:

Ruby’s story is about learning how to make Summer’s legacy (symbolically tied to the silver eyes) her own. Ruby must overcome Summer both in the sense that she must face her grief and in the sense that she must fine the happy ending Summer couldn’t reach.

Finally, there is Cinder, who is the most tragic example:

Cinder’s relationship with Salem is an abusive parent-daughter one that is represented symbolically by Cinder’s Grimm hand.

It is important that all these characters are Oscar’s foils. When it comes to Ruby and Cinder it is still too soon to have any definitive thoughts on this foiling. However, when it comes to Penny, it is already clear that their foiling has to do with the theme of trust explored in the Atlas arc.

RUBY AND OSCAR

As stated above, it is too soon to properly analyze these two’s foiling.

However, we can already point out some recurring motifs/interpretative keys that might become important later on.

In general, I would say Oscar and Ruby are clearly meant to be complementary as this post by hamliet explains.

This complementarity also comes up structurally, I think.

First of all, both Ruby and Oscar end up embodying a theme in a specific arc.

Ruby embodies the idea that you must keep on fighting, even when winning is impossible.

Oscar embodies the lesson that you must trust, even if it is difficult.

Oscar learns from Ruby:

Ruby: Hey, Oscar? This isn't gonna be easy, but the fact that you're even trying says a lot about you. You're braver than you think.

And Ruby learns from Oscar:

Oscar:  No. What Salem wants is to turn us against each other. Just like this. Jaune has a point. We can work separately and still be united.

Secondly, they seem to have an internal/external motif going on.

This is firstly shown in the battle against Cordovin:

Oscar: Right, but her missile launcher doesn't lock in, it pops out! Without her shields, one well-placed shot could detonate the missiles while they're still in the launcher!

Jaune: The missile launcher springs out... but the raw dust gets locked in!

Basically, they make opposite uses of the same weakness. On one hand Oscar thinks to destroy the cannon from the outside. On the other hand Ruby evolves Oscar’s idea and destroys it from inside.

In the Atals arc, the opposite happens (metaphorically).

Just when Ruby is telling the world the truth about Salem, Oscar does same, but in Salem’s inner circle. It is the same basic idea applied externally and broadly and internally and in a focused way.

OSCAR AND OZMA

Let’s delve into allusions.

First of all, there is a theory about Oscar alluding to The Little Prince and I personally love it.

Apart from that, Oscar’s most clear allusion is linked to the series of books set in the land of Oz. Here is some info taken from the wiki:

Oscar alludes to the Tippetarius, from the novel The Marvelous Land of Oz. This allusion has had the following influences on the character and show:

-Both lived simple farmhand lives with their female guardians before leaving. -Both first encountered the Scarecrow/Qrow when they arrived at the largest city in the land, Mistral/Emerald City. -Both become central characters because of their relation to the Wizard and to Ozma. -Tip turns out to be Princess Ozma, the lost true ruler of the Land of Oz, while Oscar becomes the host for the spirit of Ozma, the ancient hero and ruler. -Tip, as Princess Ozma, takes over the land after the Wizard of Oz, while Oscar becomes Ozma's host after Ozpin, who alludes to the Wizard of Oz.

Moreover:

-Oscar is the first name of The Wizard of Oz, the character Ozpin alludes to, whose full name is Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkel Emmannuel Ambroise Diggs. -"Oscar Pine" somewhat sounds like "Ozpin", Ozma's previous incarnation.

Some thoughts on this.

Basically, Oscar and Ozpin’s respective allusions are intertwined. What is more, they have the name of the other’s allusion.

Oscar alludes to princess Ozma, but his name is the one of the Wizard.

Ozpin alludes to the Wizard, but his true name is Ozma.

This is pretty interesting on two levels.

On one hand the Wizard of Oz was actually a fraud. He was not a real Wizard, but a simple human that found himself in Oz and impersonated a powerful Wizard.

On the other hand Princess Ozma is the true ruler of Oz. She is directly linked to the fairy land and in some adaptations has some powers.

In RWBY Ozma is the character linked to magic and a fairy world, while Oscar is the normal human who finds himself in a conflict bigger than himself.

Still, Ozpin is the one hiding things to the protagonists and being less competent than he initially seems, while Oscar turns out to be resourceful and as time passes takes charge of him and Ozpin’s situation.

This fits with their respective allusions, but not with their names that mirror their origins instead. So, the message becomes clear. Ozpin has magic and more experience than Oscar, but time has tired him and he needs to relearn some basic things, like the ability to trust and to hope. Oscar, who is a normal boy can teach him those things again.

In a sense, Oscar and Ozpin are experiencing the same things, but are relating to them differently. This is well shown by both quoting The Girl That Fell Through The World:

Oscar:  I thought the idea of falling through Remnant into a new world was exciting. I never understood why she was so sad when she finally made it back home. But now it makes more sense.

Ozpin: She wasn't the same girl anymore.

Ozpin: I was recently reminded of an old fairy tale. A young girl flees the consequences of a choice, to a magical place. But, having never learned from her initial failure, she only succeeds in spreading it.

Oscar sees the girl’s journey as an experience that changes her and makes her wiser, but also somber because she loses her childishness.

Ozpin sees the girl’s journey as her running away and avoiding facing her choices.

This is very clearly how the two of them have been relating to their experiences in Mistral and Atlas.

Oscar feels he has entered a world different from his own and he is being slowly changed by it. He is growing, but also experiencing hardships and pain.

Oz feels he is running away from his mistakes and that he needs to fix them.

These opposite visions mirror two different generations. The new generations must learn and grow, while the old one must fix their mistakes.

These are just some random and disorganized thoughts. I am sure that in new seasosn there will be more to comment. Anyway, Oscar is clearly a key character in the story and a pretty complex one in his own right.

Thank you for the ask!