#i've been a part of many fandoms that get brought up as 'disgusting' and 'the worst ones'

[natasha-in-space]

Gonna rant a bit about fandoms, because I have some thoughts to share.

Kind of sad to see that fandoms are starting to be viewed as a generally bad thing even by the fans lately... It is such a strange change to see, especially if you've been participating in fandom culture since the beginnings of the internet. Nowadays, the moment something becomes fairly popular and beloved by many, you can see hundreds of people feeling genuinely frustrated or upset that 'now the fandom is going to ruin it like it always does'. I see this take mainly on Twitter, but it's prominent on Tumblr and other platforms as well. I've been a part of fandoms both big and small, and, sure, smaller fandoms are generally more cozy and easy to interact with, but what happened with curating your own experience? It's so sad to see bigger fandoms be addressed as this disgusting and gross thing (both old and new, which is even more upsetting to see), when there are thousands of wonderful creators putting so much love and time into their art, fanfics, fan-projects, and so much more. Fandom is a community, first and foremost. Sure, consuming content is a big part of it, but why are we treating fandoms like it's some big assembly line that needs to be perfectly cut out for our needs? It's more like a fun fair, and it's up to you to choose which vendors to come up to, and what do you want to interact with. And yes, you should interact with creators. By no means is that a necessity (I was a silent viewer for a long time myself), but it is still encouraged. I feel like fandom is becoming less about interacting with people and more about consuming content. And, subsequently, fanmade content is starting to get viewed as product, and treated as such. And that's sad to see.

[thisisyourprincipalspeaking]

I see how everyone is distracting from the main fact, racism should not be excused, it doesn't matter if it's a real relationship, something in between or whatever people believe in, the emphasis should be on the celebrity's association with problematic people. No one cares about the team real and team middle, which has been trying to suggest his fandom still exists between several blogs and cheering up each other on or team pr whatever lulu people call them. The point is how problematic his wife is and saying no one should care about nunemployed means we excuse these problems. Whereas at the same time people pay a lot of attention to someone else's relationship status and or get upset what random people are saying about this relationships on Tumblr, everyone is entitled to their opinion. We have many blogs that do the same thing, allowing a space for the free expression of different opinions only if you agree with one particular idea. His marriage isn't important, what's important is who he's married to, but discussing anything beyond that main issue is how this fandom has behaved over time, focusing on the fact that this nunemployed, which people don't seem to care about for many reasons, all of which have been stated many times, reflects poorly on him, so why would anyone bother to engage in a conversation about her problematic personality, when we can keep beating the same dead horse, the competition of who said what and who is right.

first, thank you for bringing this up. i completely agree with you. i wish their racism, or their tolerance of any such bigotry, would have been a more widely discussed topic and gotten the true publicity it deserved. but i understand why efforts by fans were halted.

this is a large part of the reason i have always despised the "teams" nonsense. because at the time when everyone was trying to decide whether or not they were "one or the other," if someone felt like they leaned more "team A" than "team B" then their opinion automatically made them a member of "the other" in the eyes of someone who could have been a long-time mutual of theirs.

the racism, elitism, fat-shaming, antisemitism, general bigotry, and lack of accountability have been the biggest struggle for a lot of folks i've talked to. but here's the thing:

any time these issues are brought up with anyone who isn't "on that side" of the fandom, we're met with excuse after excuse and the age old "that wasn't her, it was her friends" and the disgusting "they were young; people change" bullshit. then if anyone brings up anything recent, or tries to state the behavior is opposite chris' (very public) belief system he claimed to have for years, they're automatically a delusional, overly-invested fan. nuance is nearly lost completely.

so the earnest attempt to bring up important concerns are twisted to perpetuate the crazy fan theory and bring more attention to her. and not in the way of exposure that was wanted, but in sympathy. which raises her profile and adds to her engagement rate. i think this realization caused a lot of people to make the decision to stop pushing the topic and just be silent about her. it isn't ideal, but it's the way it has worked out. and the bigger truth is that either way their relationship falls -real or manufactured- it brings to question his morals, which have been lambasted to everyone for years.

personally, i wanted to make my little mark where it hurts them all the most, and that's their wallets. save for the few posts here on tumblr, i haven't purchased or contributed to any new projects or any type of promotion in a very long time. i also understand for some, especially those who have been fans for much longer than i have, this has been a difficult thing to do. people are allowed to consume things both based on their morals and just because they enjoy them. i can respect wanting to still discuss chris' career and work when those fans had been doing that for years no matter what his relationship statuses had been. but thinking i've been a small part of the reason recent releases haven't performed as well as they would/could have has been partially gratifying.

[gregoftom]

Thinking about things being implied in subtext via camera zoom, it was definitely intentional. I've just watched a reaction of s3ep2 when Logan sent those donuts after the sibs got together in Ken's (well Rava's) place. When they talked about the donuts in the car, the camera zoomed in on Tom. Implying he was the one who spilled the secret to Logan. Which makes sense considering the timing (Gerri did threaten Roman but it was immediately after the phone calls that they got the donuts, so), but the zoom in made me convinced. I didn't notice it on my first watch but dissecting succession on rewatch (un)surprisingly makes you discover so many new angles

So, anyways, those shots of Bridget in the background while Tom and Logan were talking about his divorce with Shiv and Shiv turning away after Greg came in after Tom in the wake, that even on my first watch immediately made me go hmmm 🧐, were definitely there for a reason.

See, I know many people say that s4 lack subtlety/subtext. But I feel like mayhaps it just went undiscovered or people are unwilling to take that leap of faith. Especially regarding tomgreg. Like they're just okay with accepting what people around the characters are saying about the disgusting brothers scheme and Greg's being a playboy at face value. Even though we then found out it had not even been happening yet. In fact, Greg actually implied it hadn't happened when he talked about Bridget to Tom in ep 1 using the word "finally", but it's literally just a handjob initiated by Bridget who was high where he wasn't even able to finish.

Like, there're so many things being implied there even with that one scene. (What was Greg doing on those many dates then? Dinner and kissing? And then dump them after? What did he get out of that? Except the reputation. What did the reputation of being a playboy give him despite not actually being a playboy or enjoying it? Safety in an environment where toxic masculinity is highly regarded, and something to bond with Tom) But the implications go in the direction of things that make those people uncomfortable (Greg being gay doing comphet/being into Tom) so they just call people who saw it, who applied their logic like what succession has always demanded from the audience in the previous seasons, delusional. As if we are taking a joke too seriously and going too far.

And I feel like seeing how the fandom works, the zoom in shot of Tom in the donut scene in the car (or other shots like that who are more in line with the Logan/company takeover plan, or the Roy siblings' struggle) would be seen as more worthy of discussion and taken seriously in the general fandom than the Bridget zoom shot or the Shiv at the wake zoom shot or Greg acting comphet, like I just know if these get brought up there they'd just dismiss it as tomgreg being desperate and not the camera director/writers literally guiding the audience's eyes and trying to make us think

Sorry for the rant it's so frustrating how much the general fandom vibe is like "you're seeing things that weren't there" now even though they probably joined and laughed at those 'tomgreg is probably into each other' jokes in the past

OOGH that’s super interesting omg. and yeah when it comes to tomgreg especially, any kind of examination of scenes or talking about shots or possibilities of why certain directions were taken are automatically dismissed as reading too much into it or misogynistic or a reach or not focusing on the “correct” part of the media, which is super sad bc then you miss out on things like thiiis! which you are saying!

when it comes to s4, i have a lot of beef with it but it definitely does have its merits and cinematography is absolutely one of them.

[crimsonxe]

Its not even that deep, anyone and their mother would know the basics of DontNod and Decknine each having different games they've done. And the Michel comments aren't exactly hidden either. Also that "I don't care" only further adds to the disgusting-ness in the vein of disrespect towards creatives; instead being fine with one having THEIR work stomped over. I on the other hand am a creative and would fight tooth and damn nail for my characters that was far less diplomatic than Michel has been. That man is a saint with his restraint. Though it is funny that you bring up the drama with LiS2 that he also brought up, while still saying the commentary I've mentioned alongside it.

a) I'm the type that rarely filters towards people I have NO respect towards; b) you earn respect with me it isn't given freely; and c) yeah I'm going to double-down on (a) towards people pulling an "I don't care" card towards an LGBT+ fucking iconic character that MANY have related to in Chloe that even try to validate a piece of shit game with character assassination and disrespect being shown to the OG.

Its actually not, nor is that the sole reason I call and view your ass as a shitbag. Your entire trying to validate this garbage as if its actually accurate to a damn thing; being fine with the disgusting take on LGBT+; being fine with the true creative's being disrespected as well as their OG game that launched this fucking franchise in the first place; all because your sorry ass in part doesn't like Chloe who at least 50% of the fandom does love and relate to = you're a fucking shitbag.

No, your ass is NOT a Chloe fan. I don't give a rat's fucking ass how much you try to claim that you are; you AREN'T. A Chloe fan is not going to sit there and go "Yeah, Amanda is a (softened, femmed up, traditional appealing lipstick lesbian) Chloe knockoff but that's fine.". A Chloe fan isn't going to see her being painted as a disloyal, party girl, that's into guys and threesomes, and that talks to Victoria aka Ms. Popular girl. I've already stated that I'm fine having her play a minimal role, hell I'm fine with her and Max separating even, IF THEY WERE DONE RIGHT. MAX should be the party wanting a separation, it should be a presented ONSCREEN CHOICE to the player "fight for the relationship via a separation" or "full break", and then proceeding into the events of Caledon where the focus is put into the mystery element AND Max's trauma; while kicking the bullshit ass romances to the fucking curb (keep the characters kick the damn romance the fuck out of it); then at the end of EVERYTHING since they're clearly setting up a 3rd game having Chloe and Max in the "separated" path reconcile now with Max having dealt with her trauma & finding closure with it ready to move forward with her. Doesn't require massive Chloe involvement, doesn't avoid separating the two, but does respect the characters & DontNod. Hell I've seen where a Pricefielder friendzoned Amanda and the fucking game STILL tried to act as if they were romantic; because THAT's how fucking bullshit Decknine is trying to override player choice.

Sucks to be your ass, because DE is the shit version of the comics. Everything they excel at handling DE utterly FAILS at. Max's trauma, Max & Chloe's characterizations, Max & Chloe separating and reconciling, the Storm, Max's power evolving, Max getting a powered side-kick essentially, the multiverse of LiS (and yes it is a confirmed multiverse), and hell it even threw in AmberPrice happy end for good measure thanks to said multiverse that also involved exploring a platonic Chloe and Max due to AP-Chloe not having gone through the ordeal of LiS1 w/ her Max thus not forming the same romantic bond with her that LiS1-Max and Chloe did. Hell if Decknine were smart they'd actually bring Emma (the writer for said comics) in to fix their damn mess. Cause your ass wants to frame it as "bold", when no its just an inaccurate shitty ass mess that tries to act like its better than the OG.

Um no, when some dumbass starts trying to spit some inaccurate bullshit, I'm going to step in to set the record straight. You like DE? Good for your ass, idc. You try to proceed from there to say its accurate to characters or "makes sense" = we have a fucking issue. Once again the difference between "pineapple pizza is pizza" vs. "I like pineapple pizza" or "I don't like pineapple pizza.". The first is factual and the issue arises if someone says seriously not jokingly that pineapple pizza isn't pizza; cause it IS pizza.

Okay so I started life is strange double exposure today and I gotta say it’s so good so far as I finished episode 3

The characters, dialogue and story is so good. I’m really loving the romance option of Amanda 🫶 she’s a whole vibe and honestly a breath of fresh air.

I honestly think Chloe being gone fits and makes sense plus I wouldn’t have cared if she was in the game or not🤷

The story is awesome and I do love a good murder mystery. I really love the dialogue as well. It’s not as held back and shoutout for there being a trans woman character ❤️🤘I love max’s relationship with Moses and Safi. Truly the sibling relationship

I’ll say it again Amanda as a love interest made me squeal. She’s funny, has a hell of a personality and is so sweet. I think she’s a breath of fresh air and I just love her so much

This is where apparently controversy is in this fandom. I stand with the people who don’t give a fuck whether Chloe is in the game or not. I personally think it was a good choice. Because not every game is about Chloe and I’m glad she’s not really apart of it besides the posts. I’m happy max is around different characters in a different environment entirely. Do I think how Chloe and max ended was stupid? Not really. But if you’re gonna trash the game over a character you need to grow up. I thought the fandom was better than this but apparently not🥱 give the game a chance and I promise it’ll be worth your time

[c-is-for-circinate]

Wait, isn't "anti" stuff more like "anti-pedophilia" and stuff? Like, you have a point about anti-porn attitudes, but from what I've heard just "anti" on its own means against stuff like kid porn and incest porn and legitimately f*cked up sh*t like that.

Okay!  So this, I think, is actually a great example of what I was talking about, and a really useful thing to understand.  (CW rape, child abuse, etc)

Smarter people than me have written much better essays about why policing thoughtcrimes is a bad road to go down, and I will probably reblog some of them next time they cross my dash for more context.  What I want to talk about is the trigger mechanism, the ‘oh, this looks like danger!!!’ immune response in how we look at different kinds of porn, and how that applies to anti culture.

Here’s the thing: I am anti-pedophilia.  I think that, for most people, that’s a stance that largely goes without saying!  Adults who prey on children are bad.  I’m also against incest; relatives who prey on their family members are bad.  Above all I oppose rape.  Sexual predation of any kind is bad.  In fact, I’d say that’s the most important item on the list.  There is plenty of room to argue about where the lines are between ‘adult’ and ‘child’ and how teenagers fit in the middle, and there’s plenty of room to get historical about the lines between ethically terrible incest, distasteful-but-bearable “aristocratic inbreeding” between distant cousins, and the kind of consanguinity that tends to develop in a small town where everyone’s vaguely related to everyone else by now anyway.  The core of the issue is consent, and it has always been consent.  Pedophilia and incest are horrific because they are rape scenarios where the abuser has far more power and their victim far fewer resources to cope, both practically and emotionally; because harm to children is, to us as a culture, worse than harm to adults, for a lot of very valid reasons; and because they constitute betrayal of trust the victim should have been able to put in their abuser as well as rape--but they are all rape scenarios, and that’s why they’re awful. 

These things are bad.  It is good for us to have a social immune response system that recognizes these things when they’re happening and insists we step in.  That is a good thing to develop!  It helps us, as a society.  It can help the people being victimized.  It’s the same reason educators and childcare workers in the US are all mandated reporters, why we do background checks on people working near kids.  These things happen, and they’re terrible, and it’s good that we try to be aware and prepared for them.  (Though obviously studies show we’re a lot less good at protecting the vulnerable than we’d like to pretend we are.)

The question is: why does that same social immune response trigger, and trigger so angrily, in response to fiction?

Anti culture is fundamentally an expression of that social immune response.  Specifically, it’s that social immune response when it is set off by a situation that, while it has some similarities to the very bad real-life crime of sexual predation including pedophilia and incest, is in and of itself harmless.

If you’re instinct is to flare up in anger or dismissiveness because I’m calling these things harmless, I want to ask you to just take a deep breath and bear with me for a bit longer.  What you’re feeling right now is an allergic reaction.

Humans tell and read and listen to stories about “legitimately fucked up shit” all the time.  It’s part of the human condition.  It’s part of how we process those things happening, not just to use, but to other people in the world around us.  It’s part of how we process completely unrelated fucked-up shit, playing with fears and furies and insecurities that we all have, through so may layers of fiction that we don’t even recognize them any more, playing with power dynamics in metaphor and making characters suffer for fun.  Aside from the fact that literally all stories do this to some extent or another; aside from the fact that drawing lines between ‘ok that’s good storytelling’ and ‘that’s too fucked-up to write about’ is arbitrary, subjective, and dangerous in its own right; aside from all of that, these stories are stories.  All of them. 

Even the ones about rape, about incest, about pedophilia.  They’re words on a page.  No real children were harmed, touched, or even glanced at in the making of this work of fiction.  This story, pornographic though it may be, is part of a conversation between consenting adults.  (And if a teenager lies about their age to consent, that is a different problem altogether.)

Stories in and of themselves, no matter what they’re about, are no more dangerous than a crate full of oranges.  Which is to say: utterly harmless, unless all you have to eat is oranges, all day every day, and you find yourself dying slowly of nutrient deficiency--which is why representation matters.  Or unless someone wields one deliberately, violently, as a tool to cause harm, and someone gets acid in their eye--which is the fault of the person holding the orange. And unless you happen to be allergic to citrus.

The key here is this twofold understanding:  First, the thing that hurts you can also have value to others.  Real, legitimate value.  Whether you’ve undergone trauma and certain story elements are straight-up PTSD triggers or you just don’t like orange juice, that story, those tropes, that crate of oranges may be somewhere between icky and fundamentally abhorrent--but we understand that that is still your reaction.  Even if you don’t understand how anybody could ever enjoy it; even if every single person you surround yourself with is as sensitive and disgusted and itchy about this thing that makes your eyes hurt and your throat stop working as you; that doesn’t make it true for everyone.  That doesn’t make oranges poisonous.  No real children were involved in the writing of this story.  It is words on a page.

But, secondly: the thing that has value to others can also hurt you.  Just because a story isn’t inherently poison doesn’t mean it can’t cause you, personally, pain.  That’s what a PTSD trigger is: an allergic reaction, psychological anaphylaxis, a brain that’s trying so hard to protect its own from a threat that isn’t actually present (but was once, and the brain is trained to respond) that it causes far more harm and misery than the trigger itself possibly could.  And no, it’s not just people with PTSD who sometimes get hurt by stories.  There are many, many ways a story can poke the part of your brain that says, this is Bad, I don’t like this, I don’t want to be here.  The story is still, always, every time, pixels on a screen and ink on paper.  The story causes no physical harm.  But it can poke your brain into misery, it can stir up your emotions, it can make you want to cringe and run away.  It can make you want to scream and fight and go after the author who brought this thing into existence.  It can make you hurt.

This is an allergic reaction.  This is your brain and body, your reflexes and instincts, trying to protect you from something that isn’t really happening.  And just like a literal allergic reaction, it can do actual harm to you if it gets set off.  This is real.  The fact that stories can upset you to the point of pain and mental/emotional injury is real, even though it’s coming from your own brain and not the story itself.  There are stories you shouldn’t read.  There are stories I shouldn’t read, regret reading, will never read, because they hurt me.  That doesn’t mean they’re the same stories that would hurt you.  That doesn’t mean they don’t have value.

And, finally:

If getting upset about stories is fundamentally an individual person’s allergic reaction, their brain freaking out and firing off painful survival instincts in the face of a thing that isn’t, in and of itself, a threat?  Then the anti movement is a cultural allergic reaction.

Fandom as a whole has a pretty active immune system, which doesn’t mean we have a good immune system.  We try very hard to be aware of all the viruses and -isms and abuse and manipulation and cruelty, both systematic and individual, that exists around and within our community.  We’re primed and ready to shout about things at all times.  The anti movement is that system, that culture, screaming and shouting and fighting at a harmless thing on a grand scale.  It wants to stop that thing, that scary awful thing that trips all of its well-primed danger sensors, at all costs.  It’ll swell up and block off our airways (our archives) if it has to.  It’ll turn on the body it came from.  It’s scared and protective and trying to fight, and it’s ready to fight and destroy itself.

Luckily, fans and fanfic and fandom and fan culture are a lot bigger and older than they often get credit for, and it’s not like these cultural allergies are anything new.  We could talk about shippers and slashers in the X-Files fandom in the 90s.  We could talk about the birth of fandom in the days of Star Trek.  We could talk about censorship and book burning going back centuries.  We survived that and we’ll survive this, too.

But god, does the anti movement my throat and eyes itch.  Man is it irritating, and sometimes a little suffocating, to realize how many stories just aren’t getting told out of fear of what the antis will say.  And that’s the real danger, I think.  What are we losing that would have so much value to someone?  What are we missing out?

[bramble-rose]

Okay, even though I think it's pretty presumptuous on my part to even comment on the situation I'm going to do it anyway, because Helluva Boss has been pretty much my whole life since last year and has brought me back into a fandom I enjoy very much in a positive way .... and the current affair is very much on my mind and has put a crack in my happy little bubble. When all I wanted was to stay in my pink and red bubble! And I still want to.

But I can't keep my mouth shut. So here's my two cents:

Personally, I'm rarely interested in the producers behind a series, instead focusing mainly on the series and the characters within it. Of course, you know the producers and artists and maybe even follow them ... but otherwise I usually hold back and enjoy what a series brings me personally.

But since I'm a big animation fan (and media studies were part of my studies), Vivzi impressed me a lot, as I admire and respect everyone who works their way up from zero to a hundred as an indi artist. It's hard to build a fanbase and create content that you might not even get paid for, especially in the beginning. Especially as an adult. Time and motivation and work and personal physical and mental state play a big role there. So the fact that she made it this far really impressed me, that's why I decided to support her.

I don't know Vivzi personally. I can only judge by what I see or read in interviews. And regarding the criticism that has come up, I have to say that the whole thing rubs me in the wrong way. In different directions.

First of all, I'm not a fan of the current mentality that social media has brought with it. Since everyone has accounts on all sorts of platforms and are thus 'accessible', many people, and especially younger people, seem to think they can interact on a confidential or friendly basis with people whose works they like. Of course, it's great to be within reach of these people ... but that doesn't mean you have any pretensions or you are their friend.

It would never occur to me to send personal messages to an actor or artist, or post a hateful tweet for the whole world to see, just so I can voice my personal little gripe. I don't think that's appropriate. It has something to do with politeness and respect. And with not getting too close to people you don't know. I also respect the privacy of people on the Internet and know what I'm entitled to and what I'm not ... And if there is a conflict to be solved, you have to confront this person at eye level and address the things instead of keeping dead silent or publishing them later on the Internet as a rant post (generally speaking).

But this is just a side note, because I have seen how people leave hate comments and rants under posts without reflection. It's disgusting ... and brazen.

And while we're on the subject, I detest the way some 'fans' act. Not getting their beloved free content? Boo hoo, everything sucks, the artist should be burned! I'll never watch XYZ again!11!!!111!!! Mimimi, the voice actors from the pilot are being recast, the ones who made these decisions are human scum and traitors!

Just like Coldmirror, a well known German Youtuber said: 'In the past I wouldn't have written Steven Spielberg a letter on my diddle paper with the message: Ha,ha, your movie with the dinosaurs was full of shit. It was badly done, you could see that the dinos weren't real and I don't like dinos anyway! Really bad, I'll tell everyone now! You are stupid!!!'

Like ... wtf? Who does something like that? I will never understand this audacity. But probably it's because I'm too old for that kind of shit and at least I got some manners and rules of behavior in the cradle and I transferred them to the internet. The internet is not a big, funny playground where you can thunder your unfiltered opinion at everyone. Grow up.

But enough of that ... I have to say that the current accusations against Vivzi have kept me very busy. Why? Because I've come back to a fandom after years and enjoy it. I thought, this one thing is good. This one thing is nice and the fandom is a little crazy but friendly and I managed to stay out of in-fandom drama. However, now that this statement has been released, I have to put my thoughts down so they are out of my head. Without meaning it maliciously, no matter how it may sound.

According to the said entry, the former Spindlehorse employee was just 18 at the time they worked at the studio, and the whole thing happened about 1-2 years ago.

The things that came to my mind are the following: at 18 you are young. Very young. The person worked 30-40 hours full time and still took the job at SH in addition. Ambitious, I would say! Animation is time consuming af.

But what I also had to think about was, and I don't mean this in a derogatory way, I'm just trying to explain the picture that came up in my mind: such a young person, who has also stated to suffer from mental problems and is already working full time anyway, now has to take on a second job in addition. In an area of work that is very labor-intensive and time-consuming.

In addition, to work for a person to who one looks up, at a show, which one likes. Sounds like hitting the jackpot, but could it also have created false expectations?

Deadlines have to be met. There are deadlines everywhere. So I don't understand harping on that. Nor do I understand that if you don't get deadlines and then explicitly ask for one and get a short time window, why do you complain? Just because you might be a fan of a series doesn't mean that it's a nice tralala job that you do on the side. Because that's kind of how it sounded to me. Last monday I was asked to give out 8 different handouts on various seminars I held – it had to be done til the next day. The agreement originally said otherwise, but the boss wanted and needed them. So it had to get done ... And it did get done. I also didn’t get a thank you very much or get one every time I've done my job. So when a deadline comes up and I work all night to get the deadline for that job done ... then that's what I've done: my damn job. My boss doesn't come running and throw herself at my feet with thanks ...

A job is a job and I think before the person started at SH, the conditions were discussed. Maybe there was a contract or some other type of agreement where it was outlined what the working conditions were. So the person knew what they were getting into as far as that was concerned ....

My further thought was: It is normal that there is a hierarchy in a company. How well it functions and is lived out is, of course, that’s another matter. And of course you have favorites among colleagues, with whom you prefer to work. Just because you're hired as a fan doesn't automatically make you best friends. And it's also natural that when Vivzi's friends have worked with her, she treats them differently. She knows them, there's a different connection.

With such a small, young company, of course the money goes to what attracts the customers: the voice actors. But I think even the payment was somehow agreed upon beforehand, so the person should have known what they were getting into. If Vivzi didn't stick to it, that's another thing, of course, and not okay ...

She can't be blamed for the behavior of her right hand. At most, she could have said something if she knew about it.

As for bashing other series, that's not the fine thing to do. I could imagine it was meant in a more sarcastic frame, but I can't judge that, so I won't say anything about it. The same goes for comments about other artists in the industry. That's not the kind of thing you do, and it's lousy.

On the other hand, I've also gossiped behind other people's backs before. Not even maliciously, but to blow off steam. We're all just people. We all make mistakes. SH is a young company. Vivzi therefore doesn't have much experience as a producer yet. You grow with your tasks and maybe everything is different now ... considering that said accusations refer to a point in time that is at least a year in the past.

The working world is tough. You have to get used to it...

I would really like to see a little statement on this. But I can absolutely understand if Vivzi and her crew don't say anything about it. And that's their right, too. They have a lot on their plate right now and a lot to do (the fact that Vivzi wasn't around at some point could be explained by the fact that she's producing a second series with a big official film studio and has to commute between two projects work-wise ... just as a side thought).

Vivzi took a break from social media because she wasn't feeling well and such accusations could have a corresponding effect. And my selfish ass hopes that this doesn't kill her passion on the project and the series gets cancelled .…

Which would also be her right. It's her fucking show, and she can do whatever the hell she wants with it. And if she turns all the characters into bouncing punching bags from the Muppetshow who only speak telephone language. Her show. Her choice.

For us, as fans, it would suck, of course, because the characters and the show are very dear to my heart.

But I don't want to deny the person their experience either. Not in any way. There are always two sides and everyone perceives situations differently, which is the point of the whole thing. If the person was stressed, that's how it was for them. If they were uncomfortable, if it got to them ... okay. Of course. Understandable, absolutely!!!

Nevertheless it is already very random to come out now completely spontaneously with it and to speak about things, which would have belonged to be addressed internally. Only talking people can be helped.

I wouldn't go and talk loudly on the Internet about my current employer, mentioning all the names and everything that's going wrong (which I wouldn't be allowed to do because of my contract ... cough).

And that was my brainstormed ted talk. I don’t want to offend or harrass anyone... but I needed those thoughts out of my head.

[stormblessed95]

Hi Storm!! This has been on my mind so I thought I would send in an ask. Idk if you are a swiftie, but I am. Taylor has a new album coming out next month (crossing my fingers that PJM1 doesn’t drop the same weekend because I want Jimin to have his own moment) but onto my point…

There was a major uproar from fans after the speculated that this album would have even more queer undertones and a possible “coming out” from her with Midnights. And there was even a Rolling Stone article talking about her rumored queerness which brought a huge twitter controversy and a shit ton of homophobia. I hate that people are assuming that she will come out with this album release or pressuring her too, I really hated even more that people were so homophobic adamant that Taylor is straight. The homophobia and heteronormativity extends beyond the BTS fandom into other huge fandoms too. It really made me mad and sad. And I’m sure Taylor is aware of both sides of her fandom.

Idk what my real point to this is other than this is a huge patriarchal society problem clearly. The way some swifties dismiss any possibility of her being apart of the LGBTQIA+ community is giving the same energy that the members of BTS receives when someone speculates that *cough Jikook* could be in a romantic relationship and it’s disgusting. This is why pressuring anyone, especially those in the spotlight, to come out is never okay.

Hi! So I do really enjoy lots of Taylor's Music. But I am generally not involved in the fandom nor do I keep track of what goes on with her. I just enjoy the music when it drops. I do have friends who are Swifties though and you best believe my bestie will be getting a call asking why they didn't share their fandom drama with me this time. Lol

Honestly though, I did go look this all up and read through some threads and see reactions to things etc and wow. Yeah, there is a lot of uncomfy discourse happening. I don't know Taylor enough or about everything to honestly give my own opinions over it all though. I don't feel informed enough. Sorry!

I will say that the Bi colors show up alot around Taylor though that I've seen. Her lyrics has raised my own eyebrows here and there on occasion but can also be easily brushed off at times too. So again, I don't know enough. I know she writes all her own stuff though I'm pretty sure and is huge on Easter eggs and clues and hints etc. And there are so many queer coded hints that I've seen and I wouldn't even consider myself part of her fandom. But again, who knows. This music video DOES exist though lol

And yeah, hardcore ally all day. I love it. But the gay song during pride month and she did it with Bi colored hair? 🤷🏻‍♀️😂

I don't know anything about her upcoming album release though honestly. But no one can force someone out and no one can assume someone's sexuality. So the people insisting she has to be straight aren't in the right. She has the right to her own privacy though as well. She doesn't HAVE to say anything to anyone about anything either. I do think there is a difference between assuming she might be coming out vs pressuring her to come out too. Talking about the queer undertones in her music and gay fans being excited about it, relating to it and wondering if this means she might say something diffinitive about it now. Isn't the same as insisting she say something about it or come out. I'm sure there are people doing both because fandoms can suck sometimes, but don't downplay every queer fan for hoping for a more queer album or maybe a coming out as them insisting she do so either.

But again, I don't know enough so Idk how much I can really say! All I know is that she seems happy in her relationship, my hardcore swiftie bestie tells me she is and that she has been throwing herself into these latest albums. So I just hope she stays happy and enjoys her life to the fullest and if nothing else, I hope she is a good ally.

Sorry fandom drama and homophobia is everywhere anon. That's nothing new 🥺

[ladyhindsight]

Tbh anytime the subject of Clare's racist writing is brought up you are very dismissive.

Like people mention Clare consistently whitewashes any main character of color (half white + English names + unusual eye and hair color) and you go "That's not whitewashing, it makes sense".

Or people point out that she created Cordelia as a white character, hyped her up to create hype for the books and reblogged fanarts of her + her official cards etc., then later retconned her into a WOC with very shallow representation, and you go "Nah that's understandable".

Or people say that they expect more than shallow representation from a character, and that a character of color acting like a white character isn't good representation and you go "Skin color does not dictate behavior. what do you mean they act white?" (... are you for real?)

Or how every main character of color is always alienated from their culture (which could start an interesting conversation about colonization and assimialtion... except no, Clare just uses that as an excuse for shallow representation) and you go: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For example, the whole cast hates Alistair's guts because he was a bully. Right, a brown kid bullied white kids in mid 1800 and got away with it without being punished (or worse). Not only it's clear that Clare had imagined Alistair to be white (like Cordelia), but that she didn't bother to change the narrative around him once she changed his ethnicity. So we now have a villain of color who torments our white heroes. It's also disgusting to read how the whole cast talks about Alistair, with the excuse that he was a bully (not once the white Heroes question themselves: why are we so quick to forgive other people, yet Alistair is always the monster? Prejudice? Racism? Nevah!!! We are perfect!!!)

You see nothing wrong with this racist narrative??? And this is one of many. Like??? You're either very naive and disinterested when it comes to the subject of racism, or you're willfully blind.

I'm also pretty sure that most of the asks you get about it are from people of color (in some it was obvious, but I don't think I read them all). So it's not people just hating on Clare for the fun of it. It's people who are hurt by racist writing.

You're ready to criticize Clare on every little thing down to punctuation, but when it comes to her racism I've seen you defend and make excuses for her more than anything. In the face of people of color criticizing her.

Why?

There is plenty to criticize, and racism is definitely one. And you are correct, I haven’t really focused on it. I have never meant appear or be dismissive, and I apologize for that.

I think you’re referring to the couple asks I got that were about Cordelia. In one of them I explained my thoughts on how the whitewashing could’ve happened over time, and that I thought that the issue was related to the effect of time, the standards and needs of readers changing and becoming more vocal and out. That isn’t to say that different needs considering representation haven’t always been there, because they have.

This is a fantasy series, so I haven’t really given much thought to unusual hair colors and eye colors other than how ridiculous it is that everyone has something special and striking to them, and then it is repeated over and over again in the story, as if different colored eyes were personality trait themselves. So no, it doesn’t make sense. To be put like that, that this is also erasing dark features, it is alarming. Why couldn’t Cordelia just have dark hair and dark eyes?

I didn’t know about the marketing of The Last Hour series or that Cordelia was originally white until I began seeing discussion about it in the fandom. I didn’t pay attention to this series because it felt like going backwards and not towards the end of the chronicles. So I though, cool, Clare wanted to be more inclusive. I didn’t want to imply ill intent on Clare’s part because seeing how the series began and how it has evolved alongside social issues and need for representation becoming more prominent and vocalized. It does seem to me that Clare dug herself into a hole by having everything in the series concern Herondales, Blackthorns, and Carstairs—essentially white families—and continuing on that road despite the fact that by doing so, she’s making her characters of color half-white by default.

"Skin color does not dictate behavior. what do you mean they act white?"

Skin color does not dictate behavior because it isn’t some deterministic trait. Diverse characters are more than just having different skin colors. It’s inclusion of different beliefs, language, clothing, manners, and cultural customs and habits and norms. All of which Clare does not do, and I have said this regarding the subject.

When I asked the person to specify what they meant by the characters acting white, I asked for examples from the book that I have not read (and only now just begun) and therefore it’s hard to discuss the characters of color acting white when I have no real context on how the book deals with this issue. And since the topic was mainly Cordelia in The Last Hours.

You are incorrect in assuming that I meant the characters can “act white” because skin color doesn’t mean you’re supposed to behave certain way, so that any character of color can act white all they want. These were two completely different points.

Then there’s the fact that the Shadowhunters barely have any culture of their own. It is minimal, yet Clare tends to lean heavily on it instead of the native cultures of Shadowhunters coming from different parts of the world. As I’ve said, The Shadowhunter series include several characters from different countries and nationalities but rarely also include the cultures conjoined to them. I’ve regarded this to be due to Clare’s skills as an author. Or she truly doesn’t care enough, even though I’d like to believe that any author would have enough integrity and genuine care regarding the representation they write. It is evident that by changing Alastair’s ethnicity Clare exemplified how unaware she was of the racist aspect of it.

And I do think it’s wrong.

I am not excusing Clare. I don’t think what I’ve said as excuses. I am trying to find reasons where the problem stems from, what caused it, and why it keeps happening. And I think it is because everything in the Nephilim world needs to conform around Clare’s own favorites that are mostly white. That it is because of her thoughtlessness and even ignorance, and I don’t believe she is willfully trying to hurt people when it comes to writing representation. Or she truly believes not even doing the bare minimum is enough as long as her fans write her gratified messages. And none of that excuses it, and that is not what I have been meaning to say at all.

When it comes to other series, the cast is very white also. Maia, Aline, Jia—they all have a very small part in the grand scale of things. Bat is nowhere around, just appeared for a moment in City of Ashes. Magnus is there when a problem needs solving and for Alec’s individual story line. Cristina Rosales has a more prominent cultural background than other characters but it is somewhat stereotypical.

All in all, Clare’s racism, unintended or not, is bullshit.

I do realize that though I have tried to look at the subject from different angles to explain it, I’ve focused a lot on somewhat inessential aspects and thus failed to provide support to the readers who are the ones that matter the most. I’ll try to be more mindful from hereon.

[mego42]

I 100% agree about wanting more fanfic lists! I honestly think it's the best way to get a variety. Everybody has personal preferences, if someone, who mostly reads long, fluffy au Brio fic, is making recs, they're not likely to mention short, angsty, canon Brio (which is understandable and fair!) so ideally someone else, who does like those, would also do recs. I'm pretty sure I've read or at least tried the vast majority of Brio fics, but the recs often make me re-read the fic and author.

YAAASSSS!!! I mean like, okay, I v much get why people have issues with rec lists, and I def do not by any stretch endorse the idea that recs/rec lists should be considered anything other than one person sharing a think they liked, but to me a lot of the issues (the same fics/authors getting recced, feeling like awesome fics/authors are going unrecognized) can be solved by more reccing, not less. everyone’s got different taste and different stuff they look/read for and I am extremely pro sharing that.

Idk, I think about it like this: in a previous internet life I was a YA book blogger and I lived and died by recs from other bloggers whose taste and preferences I knew. I mean, you know, I’d check out a book bc the premise sounded interesting but literally the first thing I would do was go to Goodreads and look for a handful of people who tended to like the same books I did and see what they were saying about it bc that was the best way to get a good idea of if I wanted to give it a shot. Or, on the flip side, there were some people whose reviews I followed bc I knew we v much did not read for the same things so if they hated a book for X, Y and Z reasons, I was probs going to like it (one thing about book blogging is if you want to keep current, you do not have a lot of time to mess around, snap judgements are key but that’s a whole other thing and idk if it’s even relevant anymore bc that landscape has changed so much). 

ANYWAY, the point is, I got in the habit and now I do the same thing with fic bc, tbh, I don’t have a ton of time to read, esp not when I’m actively writing which, with the exception of the last week or two, I’ve been doing p non-stop since I got here. All of which to say is, I am desperately in favor of fic recs for purely selfish reasons, I need them! Give them to me!!! Please!!!!!

That said, I uh, am v bad at returning the favor and I recognize that (I think I’ve made what? two rec lists for this fandom?) so I will try to do better to live by my own, idek what this is, moving on and here are 10 recs not really thematically linked by anything other than I’ve read them and loved them and don’t think I’ve put any of them on one of my rec lists yet (and if I have, my blog is a trainwreck I cannot be expected to remember what’s on it LET ME LIVE):

The Goodest Boy by EnsignDisaster

There’s a key turning in the lock and Buddy rushes over to greet his Master excited for her to meet his new friends. The door opens and he dances around Master’s feet rejoicing on the fact that she’s made it home. It's been literally forever.

“Hey Buddy what’s wrong? Need to go potty? Need to pee-pee?”

“Nah he’s good we took him out.”

Master does something very unMasterlike, she drops all the food she’d brought in on the ground and screams. It’s a non traditional avant garde type of hello…Buddy loves it. Mostly because while Master taps furiously on her small light box and sits tense in the corner opposite his new friend Buddy can lick up the egg smashed on the hardwood floor.

Buddy! The! Dog! POV! no further explanation necessary. Technically WIP, but it covers the whole pilot in a way that could be read as standalone (THOUGH THAT WOULD V MUCH GIVE ME A SAD though, when did the show forget the Bolands had a dog? so maybe that’s a tragic casualty of canon, idk)

May The Moon’s Silvery Beams by @pynkhues

Emma hums in agreement, and Rio turns her around to sit her on the counter, grabbing one of the older looking boxes of muesli while she kicks her legs out, heels bumping back against the counter, watching him. He gropes around the inside of the box, finally just opting to pull the plastic cereal bag out and peering inside. He can’t quite keep the grin off his face when he sees the wad of cash lining the bottom. This woman kills him, she really does.

Then there’s a little face peering up beside him, trying to peek into the box.

“What is it?” she asks, and he tilts the box sideways so she can see inside.

The upside to not getting here until s3 is that old fic is new to me! Huzzah!! Idk how many of y’all have already read this on but if you haven’t I highkey recommend. Extremely cute take on what if Emma woke up when Rio and came by to collect his/Beth’s/whoever's money during the shutdown. Cannot believe I’m reccing kidfic. Witchcraft!!!!!!

Maybe You’re My Fantasy by ohmisterjapan

He fucking loves the involuntary. It speaks to how he likes to unlock chaos and walk away. He's been called a control freak before and it felt like such a misunderstanding of him - he's all about self control but he doesn't want to control others. It's more that he enjoys revealing to them how little they can control themselves. It's more that he likes to stand still in the eye of someone else's storm and pick coldly through the wreckage.

Another oldie but a goodie. This fic is more like an extended character study (first chapter Rio POV, second chapter Beth) and I LIVE FOR THIS KIND OF SHIT. I really really really love the take on both characters, it really digs in and pulls out some nuances that made me sit and think about my own read of them and I love it.

A Shock Of Blue by mintletters16

“You don’t look very well. Would you… like me to get you a glass of water or something?”

Her voice is low but smooth, laced with a softness that cuts straight though to his core. Strawberry blonde locks fall gently just above the pair of magnets freezing him in place.

He can still feel the chaos tearing through his veins - emanating from the gold plated gun stuffed in his waistband - and suddenly he can’t be here anymore. Can’t meet this wide-eyed gaze that’s been locked on his for the past God-knows-how-long anymore.

Can’t see blue alive and concerned when he just left it cold and void somewhere in oblivion.

She’s looking at him like he’s on the brink of madness. He thinks maybe he is.

Apparently, it’s backlist rec day over here and I’m not sorry. This one is another technical WIP but the chapter works as a standalone (BUT if the author decided to return to it I WOULD NOT BE MAD). It’s a what if Beth and Rio met pre-canon and it works so!!! well!!!! The tension and fascination and build are all *chef’s kiss* plus the writing is gorgeous and lyrical and ugh, I love it.

for a moment we were strangers by openhearts

“We got stuff,” Rio motions with a nod to the backpack Beth hadn’t noticed when they arrived hanging on the back of one of the chairs at the island.

She swallows and turns back to the dishes, realizing Rio apparently means to sleep there , assuming the place isn’t bugged.  Or for some kind of cover story if it is.  She turns and fixes Rio with a narrow-eyed stare, studying his face, the corner of his jaw especially prominent from the angle she’s looking up at him.  He’s methodical about drying each dish and setting it back on the rack, maddeningly ignoring her hard stare, so when he goes to take the next plate from her hands she grips it tightly and gets his attention.

“Hey.”

“What you on about now?” he asks, irritated.

It gets her gut uneasy, how he’s just . . . there, settling in, in ways he never had before, no matter how nonchalantly he would let himself in through her locked doors.  

“This is,” Beth tries, failing, to find words for it, “. . . it’s weird .”

This one takes place post 204 and Rio and Marcus end up spending a long weekend staying with Beth and Emma for reasons (that work, for the record, I’m just not trying to summarize rn) and it’s domestic and cute but honestly my fav part of it is how weirded out Beth is by how easily they slip into sync. The story does an excellent job balancing where they are in canon (uneasy post-sex truce) with a snapshot of what they could be if they got over themselves (HA! as if) and Beth is DEEPLY FREAKED which makes her slow slide into realizing she could maybe sort of kind of oh shit like it/him??? that much more satisfying.

Not So Careful by @bensonstablers

When he doesn’t answer, her eyes go to his but he’s too busy watching the letter opener which is still pressed against the back of his hand. Curiously, Beth runs it up his arm, careful not to press too hard, and smiles a little as he shivers. Pulling her leg up onto the bed, she shuffles closer to him before pressing the tip of the sword to his chest and slowly circling his left nipple with it, being sure not to get too close.

“You ain’t gotta be that careful.”

And when she lifts her eyes to meet his, he’s got that look. The one that always makes a lump form in her throat and for her to fall back into bed with him without a single thought of what they have to do that day. Only thing is, this time they’ve got nothing to do for the rest of the weekend and well, staying in bed the entire time had seemed like an appealing idea so she allows herself to give in a little to that look.

It makes me EXTREMELY SAD that knifeplay ranked so low on the kink survey so I’m gonna need y’all to check out this V V V EXCELLENT example of it and come back and tell me you’re sorry and you voted wrong. I am v reasonable what are you talking about.

love (where it wasn’t supposed to be) by @lilliloves

"You know what I can't stand?" Rio asks, stepping closer. It's a rhetorical question but he pauses for a second and watches Dean sniff, watches a bead of sweat trickle down his forehead, watches him shift on both his feet as he contemplates making a run for it.

"A guy who don’t realize how good he's got it." Rio continues, looking Dean up and down in disgust. "A guy that will literally fuck up a good thing just to get his dick wet."

"Yeah, well I can't stand a guy who can have anyone he wants but chooses the married woman he's not entitled to.” Dean shoots back. "And I really can't stand the fact that you're always in the room with us even when you aren't there."

And who brings him into the room Dean hmmmmm????? Jk, jk (or am I). In this one Rio catches Dean out on the town with another woman (bc of course he is) and tries to call him out but whoops! gets called out himself. I really love the like, idk, undercurrent of wistful regret in this fic. I love Dean straight up calling Rio out on his feelings (spoilers but there’s an exchange right after this one that made me straight up holler), and, you know, obvs I am here for Rio making Dean feel like an ass. 

Hell Is Other People by makemanybraver

Rio: We're in Hell, Elizabeth! If you don't think you belong here, then repent! Don't fuck everyone in the room in hopes that you get to go out!

Beth: Why do I have to repent?!

Rio: Because you did some fucked up shit in your life, Elizabeth! You keep doing fucked up shit here, too! And you think you don't belong here!

Beth [screaming at the top of her lungs]: Because I don't!

This fic is existentially bonkers and I love it. It’s the kind of experimental format/homage/what have you kind of thing that I L O V E. Based on No Exit by Jean-Paul Sartre, Beth, Rio, and Fitzpatrick are stuck together in a room in hell for all eternity. What more do you need, honestly.

Working On Things by odenkirk

Unknown Hold up, Elizabeth. I'm really thinkin about you here.

Beth turned her face into the pillow, effectively suffocating herself for a moment, but thinking it was a good trade off for the way the cool silk of her pillowcase chilled her skin.

She lifted her head to glance at the still sleeping Dean before replying.

Beth I'm thinking about you too. But this can't happen.

She wanted him to know she wanted him, but she also thought that admitting she was already there would save Rio from trying to convince her. She wanted him, but morals had to win just once in a while.

YES this is technically Beth/Dean while also being Beth/Rio BUT it’s also sort of Rio/Dean and I am HERE FOR THE DIVERSITY OF SHIPPING leave me alone who asked you.

Five Times He Knew What She Was Thinking, and One Time He Didn't by JoeyLee

Aight, so tell ‘em I was hittin’ it. Said deliberately blunt, eyes locked on her face the whole time, just to see those blue eyes widen. She looked so shocked that he almost laughed, so he softened it teasingly just to keep her going. Oh, I’m sorry, sweetheart, tell ‘em we were makin’ love.

Then he just watched her, just watched her face, just fucking fascinated. Her lips were parted and her eyes were big as saucers, and…there it was. Before she could look away flustered, he watched the thought go through her mind. Him and her together.

He wondered what she was picturing or where. Them in the back seat, her bed, a motel?  Her on top or him from behind or his face between her legs?

Whatever it was, the blush started immediately, and he watched it bloom out from her cheeks to her hair. Then she was tearing her eyes away to gulp a little.  But it didn’t knock her down for long before she was looking back. And then, wait, was she actually asking him how to go about telling a fed they were fucking?

Okay this is another technical WIP but works as a standalone. I am absolutely fucking feral for character POV takes of canon scenes and this is a supremely excellent take on Rio POV of some notable scenes from the pilot through 204. Imo it brilliantly captures Rio’s voice and I love it a lot. 

HEADS UP I am absolute shite at tracking ao3 to tumblr unless people have specifically told me someone’s ao3/tumblr name SO if you recognize any of the non-tumblr authors on please lmk so I can tag them and YES I recognize that I am asking y’all to do things for me throughout this entire post and I’M SORRY OKAY I’M A WHOLE ASS MESS LOVE YOU BYE

[agnesgoesadventuring-blog]

1/? I'm pretty sick of the way some people act like it isn't possible for some queer people to treat other queer people badly and that saying so is wrong. I'm asexual and biromantic and there have been so many queer people who have told me I'm not welcome and that I'm basically straight, and I'm only welcome if I'm with another woman. I've had people tell me that I'm using a fake sexuality so I can say that I'm queer without actually doing anything that would make me queer and I've had people

2/? anything that would make me queer and I've had people who are queer tell me that I just hadn't had good sex yet and that once I did I'd realize that asexuality isn't really a thing. I've also read fic where asexuality is sort of fetishized. I don't know if that's the right word, but there have been fics in a couple of the fandoms I've been in where the writer writes one of the characters say they're ace and then they have sex with the other character and they're "cured", and I KNOW at least2/? anything that would make me queer and I've had people who are queer tell me that I just hadn't had good sex yet and that once I did I'd realize that asexuality isn't really a thing. I've also read fic where asexuality is sort of fetishized. I don't know if that's the right word, but there have been fics in a couple of the fandoms I've been in where the writer writes one of the characters say they're ace and then they have sex with the other character and they're "cured", and I KNOW at least  3/? one of those fics was written by a wlw. I don't know enough about the m/m ships individually in the Critical Role fandom because I don't go read those fics so I don't know if there are fics fetishizing those ships. But this fandom really does put m/m relationships above all other relationships and focus on them way more whether they're canon or not, and that's something that seems to happen with the ships where m/m pairings get fetishized. So it's not like there aren't things in the fandom  4/? things in the fandom that show that maybe this could be happening. We just need to stop acting like it's not possible for queer people to be horrible to other queer people. And we need to stop acting like people pointing that out are horrible homophobes making bigoted accusations. Underneath the surface there can be a lot of division in the queer community, a lot of gatekeeping and prejudice from some groups for other groups in the community. If people want to ignore that by pretending that5/5 queer people can't treat other queer people in bad ways and try to shut down that discussion by accusing people of being disgusting and homophobic for talking about it then they are a big part of the problem.

I've seen asexuality treated in some ignorant and uncomfortable ways in fic, too. Like you, I don't know if fetishization is the right word, but it's definitely something that does happen, however rare in comparison to other things. The reality is that, regardless of whether or not it qualifies as "fetishization", pretty much all queer identities have been treated in problematic ways in fanfiction and by fandom in general. In a lot of cases it's rare that it happens, but it does happen here and there, and in other cases it's a bit more common.                                                                 

There are going to be in-group/out-group dynamics and power structures within any community, and the queer community is no exception. It would be nice to think that everyone who has experienced exclusion and prejudice based on their sexual or gender identity would want to do everything they can to make sure they don't do that to other people, but as we've seen from the amount of things like bi, ace, and pan exclusion and erasure that happens in the community that this is not always the case. It's unfortunate, and I wish that people having those experiences would make them not want to inflict similar experiences on others, but the fact of the matter is that human psychology is going to exist in any kind of group or community, and a person being a part of a marginalized group doesn't somehow mean they're not just as susceptible to pretty common human psychology.

Something that's really important to remember is that the queer community is not some homogeneous group where everyone has the same identity and the same experiences. It's a community full of different, sometimes overlapping groups. Those groups are made up of identities that are similar in some ways and very different in others, and some of the experiences that those groups have overlap with each other, and some experiences are wholly unique to that group. So it's entirely possible for someone from one group to be ignorant about people and things that happen in another group, to not understand some of those experiences and to, whether intentionally or not, do things that exclude or otherwise hurt them.

On another note related to the discussion of fethishizing queer identities in fandom, someone I was talking to about the topic brought up an interesting point about how there are some ships where the fetishization becomes normalized and it just becomes the general standard and norm of how the ship is treated, written about, etc., so it starts out as people treating the ship in fetishizing ways, as a means of using the gay male experience as a means of titillating and basically getting off, and doing things like depicting unsafe and unrealistic sexual practices and pushing heteronormative gender and relationship roles onto the characters, and it just happens so much that those ideas just kind of become the way people think about the ship and the way people write about the ship, because it's just sort of the status quo. So it starts as pretty blatant fetishization, but over time people are just writing these heternormative ideas and such, without even an intention to titillate or "get off", without realizing what they're doing, because it's just they way things are done in that fandom. That's where it gets REALLY troubling, and that's one of the reasons it's so important to call that kind of fetishizing out when it happens. I'm very glad that I haven't been actively involved in any fandoms where that kind of normalization has happened, but I've talked to people who have been in such fandoms, and it's just heartbreaking to hear them talk about it.

[autumn-foxfire]

Hey, OP here. First I want to make one thing clear, I never said killing was the right answer, just that it was an option and one that shouldn't be disregarded as it could be the only option Deku has to save people if he can't make Shigaraki change his ways or get through to him.

Which is a possibility.

One of the most important parts about a villain changing is they themselves wanting to change too. Heroes and civillians can only do so much, they can offer a hand and help but it's the villains at the end of the day who need to take that step towards change.

Look at the Twice and Hawks situation: Hawks tried to give Twice the most peaceful option he could in the circumanstances, first it was surrender with the offered help from Hawks to help him get on his feet when he's done his time, and then when that didn't work because Twice rejected it he tried to arrest him. Almost all of the time Hawks tried to choose saving Twice over killing him in that fight and it was only when Hawk was driven to a corner, running out of feathers and ways to bring Twice in alive, where eventually he was forces to choose Twice's life over the lives of the many he would kill if he succeeded to escape. And only then did Hawks prioritize his potential victims over Twice.

What I'm trying to say is that the choice of killing is a tragic option but sometimes the only one left.

I don't expect any of the heroes to be trigger happy when it comes to the villians, my original point was that it was wise of Gran Torino to remind Deku that it's still an option because at one point Deku might be faced with it (or so he thinks). The act of taking a life is something that shouldn't be celebrated or viewed as positive, I agree, its tragic and should always be shown as such.

Secondly, I don't mean to come across as rude because you have made interesting points but you've severely misunderstood the point of this post. My original post was an anon wondering why the fandom treat the villains like they're the true heroes of the manga, a situation I've addressed many times on my blog with other anons.

There is a massive wave of villain apologism in this fandom, from people citing the abuse status of victims as justification for murder and terrorism or people changing the motives of the LoV's and acting like their end goal was revolution to make lives better for the ones mistreated by society. The reason my original post brought up the comparisons between people treating hero-bashing as activism is because I made several posts addressing how disgusting comparing the innocent people killed by police brutality to Twice's death by Hawks in the manga was when it first started to happen.

As for the villains wanting destruction, that has always been their goal in the manga. Shigaraki states multiple times how he wants to kill everyone who he doesn't view important to him (aka the LoV's) and Dabi himself has stated how he wants the heroes to fall into ruin which would ultimately allow the villains to rule freely which would cause destruction. The world they're trying to create isn't revolution for the betterment of society, it's based of their desires for revenge where anyone and everyone will be caught in the crossfire until they're stopped.

No one is denying that society isn't at fault for creating the LoV's, that has never or will ever be my argument. However just because they're the result of a corrupt society doesn't mean they're not the enemies of society either. They are, they're the enemies of those who want to try and create peaceful change, who want to make the world a better place because what they want to do is the complete opposite.

Abla's point was about that. We both know that society is corrupt and needs changing, we just know it'll be the hero side as they are the ones that want to save and nurture life, unlike the villains whose only goals are to destroy it.

The villains are supposed to be a warning, they show us what happens when corruption runs strife and all the failings of the hero society that needs to change. They're a tragedy because they were preventable and soon the manga will (or already has in the case of Dabi as Endeavor and his family have already been reflecting on his circumstances) address that. Deku is definitely going to address that when he confronts Shigaraki but whether he can get through to him though and make him change his ways, that has yet to be seen.

Why do you think villain stans, to put it mildly act so stupid? Despite the villain being unapologetic about their crimes these people act like they are innocently souls that are the true heroes. While also criticizing heroes that won't put up with their shit like Torino. Idiots are mad that Torino thinks using lethal force against violent terrorist is valid option and Deku shouldn't waste his breath on those murders who don't want to be saved.

I’m not completely sure, to be honest.

I know for some it’s because they’re mistaking fiction for activism, which is why we got so many offensive posts comparing real life police brutality to that of a fantasy world arresting system (and such we have such gems as people comparing the innocent black/mentally ill people killed by the police with terrorists in fiction which wasn’t a good look for them).

I think another reason is that they relate to the villains/see themselves in the villains and so seeing them treated badly upsets them. I know it’s bizarre considering the villains are people who have slaughtered hundreds at this point so them facing consequences shouldn’t be this upsetting but for some reason many in the fandom seem to forget the crimes the LoV’s have committed, or have deluded themselves into thinking murder and terrorism isn’t all that bad.

I don’t think we’re ever going to get a change from the “villains are actually the true heroes” because people have fooled themselves into thinking the villains are fighting an unjust system for the sake of change rather than lashing out for the sake of revenge (…even though both Shigaraki and Dabi have made that part of themselves very apparent).

What’s amusing about the Gran Torino thing is that Deku has already declared he’s going to try and save Shigaraki so it’s not like Deku is suddenly going to go and kill him because Gran Torino (wisely) told him to prepare for that scenario too. But even the suggested act of killing Shigaraki has gotten people’s panties in twists because dear god the heroes actually try and stop his revenge fueled genocide

This fandom is such a mess…

[darkelysian-blog]

Stydias and Stereks

This is the only post I’ll ever be making regarding teen wolf simply because I don’t care enough to be associated with the toxic fandom. I’m making this post because it’s something I've noticed when it came to the two big ships, Stydia and Sterek. Don’t take it personally and don’t say, I’m not like that because I’m speaking in general. 

Okay, the first thing that bothers me is that Sterek and Stydia shippers like to point fingers, they like to whine and complain that one side is ridiculous and crazy and disgusting, but what they don’t realize is the extreme hypocrisy. 

Let’s start off with Sterek. When Teen Wolf first started, Sterek was the biggest ship. It’s what brought in viewers every week(sadly, since the show had nothing to do with Sterek), and it’s what kept the fandom alive and thriving, I guess you can say. With popularity comes with a bunch of bad apples that turn the fandom rotten. A lot of people now love to forget or act like the extreme racism within the fandom never happened. They love to forget that the Sterek fandom had harassed the cast constantly, especially the lead actor, Tyler Posey. The Sterek fandom went as far as asking Jeff to kill off his character so Stiles or Derek could be the main character, sending Posey death threats, making fun of his depression and even made disgusting comments regarding his mother who was struggling with cancer at the time. A lot of this hatred stemmed from a comment Posey had said about their fictional pairing, his exact words being,”I think Sterek is, um, a bizarre, weird, twisted thing, and I think anyone who pays more attention to Sterek than the show, uhm, isn’t watching the show for the right reasons.” Might I add, Sterek had already been harassing Posey beforehand and had treated him with lack or respect, so my point is, if you want to earn respect, you have to give it, and in this case, the Sterek fandom hadn’t given that respect so they sure as hell don’t deserve it from Posey. The Sterek fandom is what the Stydia fandom is now, mean and callous and whoever doesn’t agree with your ship, then they’re wrong. A lot of people perceived his comment as homophobic when it isn’t. It’s an opinion on a fictional gay ship, and I would say that Posey could’ve been nicer, but they were never too kind to him. Maybe that’s petty on my part, but people shouldn’t expect respect if they can’t give it themselves. Part of the reason why Posey had gotten so much hate is that of racism, because before this comment was even made he had faced extreme hate from the fandom and was often compared to his white co stars, Dylan O’brien and Tyler Hoechlin. Now I went on about this fandom long enough, I think it’s time to go on to Stydia.

As Teen Wolf comes to an end, Stydia happens to be the biggest ship, (or loudest ship) within the fandom. The Stydia fandom had become loud, rude and somewhat overbearing. They constantly harass the cast members, wanting any information that has to do with Stydia, often disregarding the storyline and other characters itself. There’s a disgusting amount of misogyny within the fandom, the shippers sending death threats and hateful comments towards Shelley Hennig when she first joined the show. Her character, Malia, was often sidelined and many of the shippers hated both her and Shelley simply because of a fictional pairing. One of the writers of the show, Will Wallace, was even attacked simply because he preferred Stalia’s storyline over Stydia, which is wrong. I can’t stress enough how disrespectful that is. And let's not forget the amount of homophobia I’ve witnessed, one person going as far as saying, “homophobia is okay if it’s against Sterek shippers.” That is utter bullshit and the worst thing a person could say about someone. And yes, I will not ignore that this fandom is racist as well, shippers going as far as wanting Scott killed off just so their fictional ship could rise. This fandom constantly sidelines Posey as well as the Sterek fandom and often disrespects other cast members and/or characters they feel as though they get in the way of their ship. And let’s go back to the point of misogyny since this is the fandoms biggest issue(other than them hating on anyone who doesn’t ship Stydia). I often saw Stydia shippers hating on Malia because of the rumored romance between her and Scott simply because Malia was Kira’s friend. The double standards within the fandom are absolutely ridiculous and quite embarrassing. I have hardly seen any shippers speaking up about the fact that Lydia will now be dating Stiles even though Malia and Lydia are clearly friends(And I really don’t care that Kira was written out of the show, she was still an important character). I have hardly seen anyone call Scott out for dating Malia even though he dated Kira who happened to be Malia’s friend(I guess it’s the cool thing to share boyfriend and girlfriends within the show). The number of times I’ve seen Stydia shippers praise Stiles for being in love with Lydia all while dating Malia is through the roof and it’s wrong on so many levels. 

Anyways, I think Stydia and Sterek shippers wouldn’t be so bad if they just owned up to the fact that their fandom is not perfect, and call out the unfairness of both sides because while you guys continue to fight, you’re not even realizing the hypocrisy that you’re spewing out. Stop pointing fingers and whining like children over a fictional ship and point out the very real issues that almost every fandom faces, which is misogyny, racism, and homophobia. (And no, I am not hating on these two groups and I think everyone is allowed to ship what they ship and love what they love, but I wanted to call out the issues that I feel are very real)

[goldteethonice]

A most valid addition @an-asocial-girl

While ship names are widely used within the fandom even just as shorthand, Taekook is definitely the most popular by far and used with the most frequency even by non-shippers. There's a very deliberate avoidance of using Jikook outside of explicitly Jikook-supporting accounts. 

@mim6s also makes a very sad, but true point. To call a horse by its name, tkkrs and their big accounts have truly done such invasive and disgusting things (from the incidents I mentioned above and as far as intentionally ruining Jimin's birthday celebrations online.) Not to even mention the famous Taekook-lives and her absolutely vile and reprehensible content that she makes money off of and whose channel still has 300k+ followers. Channel that was brought back by 3 of the biggest "ot7" accounts on twitter after many battles to take it down and that keeps growing by the day, no matter how many times tkkers claim they "don't claim" her. I truly do not want to generalise, but at some point when the minority become the exception, I feel that it is warranted. There's only so many excuses you can make for a group when they constantly prove the opposite. They are also absolutely relentless bullies, with very big numbers. Jikook accounts get suspended at a word and hash tags and other content (whether fake or not, although most often it is at least misrepresented in some way) gets passed around as the gospel truth. Woe upon the people that try to point this out in any way, they get dog-piled and absolutely trashed. I've seen personal information about jikookers get leaked, accounts being hacked and all sorts of other vile things I don't even want to mention. There's a few big Jikook accounts that still hold strong, but compared to the numbers tkkers have, the gap is frankly very big. 

That also unfortunately speaks to your comment @keeperoftinyarmy

I'm not surprised by this at all. At this point it's sadly almost expected. Jimin, JK and Tae are all subjected to such an unfortunate powder keg of deliberate misinformation and fan agendas that it's truly vile to witness. Once again, not to generalise, but while akagaes and solo stans are definitely a big part of the problem, the biggest portion of it can indeed be traced back to tkkers and their entire behaviour and the systems that these big accounts enforce. 

Um, I suppose I should put a warning for a big post coming up ahead? Feel free to stop here, because what follows is my personal experience with the kpop fandom and how it's evolved over more than 10 years, as well as the issues mentioned above specifically. Obviously it's my personal opinion and thus subjective, but since the topic has been raised why not share it, right? 

To relate to the points above, one other thing that very often comes into play when talking about tkk and Jikook and how the fandom moves when it comes to them, is the sheer amount of manipulation and selective editing/misrepresentation of moments that include Jikook and their relationship, both with each other and the rest of the members.

Now just as a disclaimer, I hesitate to address such a thing in the first place, because once there’s at least somewhat valid grounds to claim that a fandom (or parts of one) intentionally skew and re-frame events to fit made-up narratives and pass them off as factual reality, I think the situation is so far out of boundaries, that it starts to appear overly paranoid even to the people trying to rationalize it. It might sound delusional or made-up. It did to me in the beginning as well, possibly because I didn’t want to believe that people could really build up such toxic relationships with specific ideas or structures, that are not even based one real facts, in the first place.

I’ve been in fandom spaces and specifically the k-pop fandom for over a decade now, since 2008/2009 to be exact. I’ve seen a lot, both in terms of fandom on its own and how it changes depending on the interaction with the artist. There’s always been fan-pandering woven into the very fabric of the industry; to almost obscene and unbelievable degrees in some cases. (Take as reference the DBSK/TVXQ mini drama “Dangerous Love” that literally had the members involved in the most popular ship - Yunjae, composed of Yunho and Jaejoong, act out scenes from fanfics. And that was happening around 2006.) 

The difference with that and other such examples was that, barring the extreme niche and deluded parts of fandoms, people were aware that in this case the artists were actors and it was content catered and made specifically to fit consumer desires. The current of self-awareness was there, because the industry and the fandom operated by different rules and expectations. Idols back then had very, very limited control over how to express/present themselves, often being forced into specific roles, to a degree that I don’t think younger kpop fans are even aware of or want to acknowledge in the first place. Point being, people did not perceive idols as humans outside of their idol persona. People got into them and their fabricated roles and content, but there was this separation from reality that also offered them protection. People were mostly content with idols being what they were, because no-one was different. There were no other implicit expectations of perceived authenticity in that regard, if that makes sense.

(This has improved overtime, but it’s still present. Jimin himself recently opened up about the fact that the company pushed a macho idea unto him in the beginning.)  So this was, and to some degrees still is, a very present element even in the current k-pop industry. Especially for girl groups, poor them, but I digress.

What makes BTS special in this context is the fact that bighit pushed them out into the world with the very strategic intent of making them relatable and authentic, which means that from the beginning there was this idea that the content they put out is truly what is presented and should be taken at a greater face value. (This was executed both wonderfully and very poorly in some cases but that’s a topic for another day.)

As with all things, this was both true and untrue to a point, especially if one thinks back to the awkward paper-to-mouth games they were forced to play in their early days and the statements we’ve gotten from the members over the years. The boys were, and are, wonderfully kind, talented, hard-working, loving and honest people, which is why they’ve achieved the things that they have achieved, But even they were not exempt from that more ingrained mechanisms of the kpop industry. With time and the consolidation of their value and playing power, this has slowly faded away organically. As of last year and the renewal of their contract, I’m sure they have more freedom than ever, this time on paper too. 

So keeping all the above in mind, what truly set them apart even more in my opinion, was the fact that this more evidently commercialized nature stopped being imposed unto them, thus removing them even further from the bulk of the kpop industry. But this was also a double-edged sword, because it also regrettably opened them up to a relationship with fans that was no longer that clear-cut, because once you feel people are truly sharing their real selves with you, you get the impression you actually know them. To some degree we do. To a greater one, we truly do not and many people can no longer make that separation. In presenting themselves as authentic, fans start off with that expectation and reality in mind. BTS are authentic, therefore the content I see of them must also be the truth, as spoken and presented...by whom? And that’s the big factor here. 

This whole info dump (which I’m very sorry about) was actually just to get to this main point: people expect the content they get from BTS to be true, therefore they accept presented content as such.

Now if it all came from BTS and bighit themselves and would be taken at face value and with trust, that would be one thing, but as I’ve mentioned before, more and more this has no longer been the case. More and more people rely on fanaccounts for their experience and this had led to such a skeved and easily manipulated perspective, as well had enforcing said accounts as gatekeepers with loyal minions ready to defend them for anything.

There are so many points to address regarding how these accounts then operate and the repercussions it has on the bts fandom as a whole, I honestly don't even know where to start, but I suppose it can be reduced to the following timeline of events :

1. Old misconceptions from their early content that got passed around so much within the fandom and fan generated content, that it has been adapted into the "accepted" reality. Under this umbrella fall things such as: Jungkook hating Jimin when he was younger (even though official content and JK showed the opposite even back then) or Yoongi being the perpetually lazy, crabby one, Jin being the "mom" of the group, etc.  By themselves they're just normal, if unfortunate, things that happen in every fandom. But when there is a group of people deliberately enforcing some of them, the situation gets more complicated. 

When BTS started finally gaining widespread popularity in 2017 this was exacerbated by a lot of western fans from fandoms such as 1D migrating over to BTS and kpop and latching onto said existing misconceptions. Most people latched onto JK and Tae and Taekook as a result and the rest, well... It evolved the only way it could have when you combined: western lack/acknowledgement of boundaries and cultural differences and subtleties + young shippers that just wanted a new "boy pair" the likes of Harry and Louis or Larry I suppose + the above mentioned sentiment of authenticity from the boys and the impression that one truly knew them intimately.

2. Which brings me to my 2nd point, namely the active perpetuation of both the things above, as well as of the fake narratives/facts that have been deliberately created to mislead. People shipped 2 of the guys and they finally had something they believed was absolutely true. They did not understand how their expressions of affections are rooted in their culture or how they've grown from those initial impressions. And they certainly would not accept anyone saying anything contrary. But that only applied to their own wishes and desires.

Taekook-lives for example popped up 2 days after GCF Tokyo was released and since then she has made hundreds of videos with the blatant intent of manipulating tkkers and new armys into believing certain things: Taekook is forced to hide by bighit and they do this by making Jikook act the way they do. Jungkook is disgusted by Jimin and hates him. Jimin is a slut and homewrecker. Trying to twist the interactions they have. Taekook talk in the soop was scripted, it's all lies. Bighit is hiding Taekook because there are no interactions. Bighit shows Taekook interactions but they're fake and scripted! And other such things. 

Does it sound like a cult yet? A bit dramatic, but there are certainly very worrying elements of it showing. This is kpop and it really shouldn't be this serious, but it regrettably is. 

The things above, as well as countless other falsities, have been spread around as the truth in the fandom and this is what new Armys stumble upon. This is what they interact with first. There is unfortunately no surprise then that people latch onto the tkk narrative and can only see Tae as a perpetually jealous and scorned person forced to hide his relationship by the company, Jungkook as this object of desire in a tug of war that has absolutely no agency or worth outside of said ships and Jimin as a home-wrecking whore, pardon my quoted language. And this is barely scraping the tip of the iceberg.

And while all the maknae line gets subjected to this, most people within that corner are Tae biased. So really Jungkook and definitely Jimin get the absolute worst of the insults, false narratives and sheer dehumanisation from the fandom. I will fight anyone that tries to claim otherwise. Jimin especially gets subjected to such atrocious levels of vile things there's quite literally not a week that goes by where he's not being dragged or insulted for something. 

And still, the accounts that allow and encourage this to happen persist and keep on getting bigger, whilst any Jikook focused one that gets even mild repute is immediately attacked. As is anything pertaining to Jikook. 

They share a cute moment of JK comforting Jimin on stage? (on:e concert) Stop spreading that around you are sexualising and fetishizing them! Same with rosebowl and countless other moments.

Jungkook sits on Tae's legs? He was trying to grab his dick under his shorts!

But JK pats Hobi or Namjoon on the butt? Or feeds Jin? And the shippers of those pairings pump out dozens of explicit fics or fanart? Nobody cares about that.

It's only Jikook that elicits that reaction. I suppose when confronted with the one relationship that has the highest and most realistic chance of being true that's how they choose to go about it. The irony is that by doing so and treating it the way they do, they only manage to validate and offer it a different status from all the others. They don't feel threatened by any other ship or their intimate moments.

It's truly never-ending cycle. People are mad they don't get content and then create false narratives about imaginary moments being maliciously hidden away by bighit in order to pander to jikookers. And then when they do get content and it's never what they want, they get mad and do the same thing. And so on and on it goes. And therein lies the fundamental difference in how these 2 groups. Jikook has a lot of moments, sometimes really ridiculous amounts. To this day some of it and their actions still baffle me to the highest degree. But its there for all to see, presented by bighit with the (at least for arguments sake) presumed permission of the boys and constantly referenced by them. Tkk does not have the same pool to pick from, a constant source of much anger and frustration from their side. Not to be misunderstood, they have always had lovely interactions and they care enormously about each other, but as said with their own mouths in official content, it's a relationship that has changed over the years, as they've grown. They did such a brave and frankly humbling thing by letting us in on that and to witness at least a small portion of them coming back to each other, but the fact remains that this only further proves that dynamics (between all of them most likely) have changed with time. As is normal, given that it does not mean they love each other any less or that they've changed in a negative way. We've recently seen a surge in such lovely interactions from them, most likely following the heart to heart they had during " in the soop" and I couldn't be more glad for it. Yet even this is not enough for some people.

But I believe I've rambled in more than frankly needed, so I think I'll leave this off here, to not risk talking in circles. 

Safe to say, there are unfortunate precedents being created and enforced and it breaks my heart to see the members being so blatantly dehumanised and disregarded in everything they say and do. Such a big part of the fandom nowadays keeps demanding more and more while not even listening to their words and believing them anymore, instead heeding the words and posts of said big accounts. Sometimes I do indeed wonder who they actually stan, BTS or these accounts? And as they keep getting bigger, so do these accounts and the unfortunate ramifications of their problematic behaviour.

In the end, the fact remains that if we are to take bighit at face value, it means that certain members have more content because they really do spend that much time together. Buy 1 get 1 free pretty much. It is what is, but certain groups are utterly incapable and frankly don't even want to take reality as is. And that level of delusion (that is being constantly validated and enforced and strengthened with numbers) is a very difficult thing to oppose, much less turn around at this point.

I'm sorry once again for the long and somewhat off topic addition, but twitter does not lend itself to such discussion and I suppose it all came spilling out. 😳

Why do you think Jikook doesn't trends? Tk cuddling? Trending. Tkkrs expect for a subunit? Trending. Jk released Still with you? Tk is trending. Tk breathed next to each other? Trending. but jikook on the other hand,never trends. Even when the spooning photo was released which made even non-shippers coo over it, didn't trend. The only time I remember jikook trending was when they made gimbap vlive.

Hmmm they don’t trend? I didn’t realize. However I think TK is a louder (maybe larger) ship. It also is a default ship for many newer army. They get schooled by various accounts that TK is THE main ship.

[am-i-jeanne]

Well...... looks like someone just saw a name and got offended. Let me explain why I love Hetalia, and why I don't believe this... interesting post.

I'll start with the why I don't agree. APH is just the first season or two. After that, the seasons are called things like "World Twinkle." Oh, so evil! World fucking Twinkle.

And the governments of the Axis Powers are actually memtioned, and not in a positive way either. Not to mention that the Axis is just one group in the show. The Allies are given attention too. (BTW, the Allied countries might not have been the villains in WWII, but they are not innocent! England, France, and America all were part of the slave trade, Russia and China have committed genocide too.... actually just about every colonizing country has. Don't bring your self-righteous bullshit here, wherever you're from, there's evil fuckers from there too.) Neutral nations are also shown.

Yeah, the English dub is full of racist jokes and kinda fucked up, but no one is making you watch either dub or read the manga. Unless someone actually did tie OP down and force Hetalia upon them.

And idk about the name, Hetalia just flows better, I guess? Who cares? That's it's name. Fuck off my pronunciation.

Now... I love this show because it's stupid and cute, and not completely accurate, but it's got some actual facts blended in with Italy's antics. It's fucking cute. But the show doesn't glorify Nazis. It's a show that just happened to start set in WWII, and then branched out from there to other parts of history. It shows many countries, and has helped me learn geography better.

It's brought international fans together to laugh at the stereotypes of their own countries while learning whether or not other countries' are true, because it started the conversations between fans. Personally, I've met more people from other countries through this show than any other of my fandoms.

It's not serious, it's not supposed to be. It's purpose was never to be used as propaganda, never to try and sway beliefs that nazis, fascists, or genocide are good things. And only a portion of the show was even set in that time period. Wars happen, and they suck. They just suck. But we need to learn to find joy even in the middle of absolutely horrible times.

Also, don't you fucking dare shame a person just because they like this show. It's a dumb cutesy anime, not porn. Not graphic disgusting violence. Not nazi propaganda. You shame Hetalia fans just for liking this show, you're part of the problem.

(Now, before I finish my rant, I've got one last comment. All you Germany and Prussia cosplayers that think it's okay or funny to cosplay naziGermany or naziPrussia, fuck you. You're also part of the problem, and why people get ideas like the ones in the original post. Stop giving us a bad name.)

you would think that a show named AXIS POWERS: ITALY wouldn’t be popular among non-fascists, but wonders never cease.

like, in case you missed your 20th century history class, the Axis Powers were the countries of Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, and Fascist Italy during World War Two that formed a Tripartite Pact of military cooperation. (There were several governments who also recognized the Pact, such as the Kingdoms of Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and the Slovak Republic, and the Independent State of Croatia. There were also numerous puppet governments installed by the Axis powers in areas that they occupied.) This Tripartate pact was influenced by a lot of factors, but, partially, it wad due to the fact that they had mutual interests, mutual enemies, and close political alignments. All of these countries were focused on expansionist wars on their neighboring countries, with ethno-nationalist agendas that focused on imposing autocratic control over “lesser nations” that they occupied, and the “lesser races” that they had legal and/or physical dominion over, with the ultimate goal of genocide, settler-colonialism, and hyper-exploitation. The Axis powers were vehemently anti-communist, and conducted domestic purges of communists and anyone who displayed enough leftist political ideology to be considered a communist sympathizer, or “non-patriotic,” or a “political subversive.” They had various terminology with which to label political opponents for suppression. This occurred in various forms, such as the physical violence of Nazi street gangs, as well as the mass incarceration of Communists committed by the Imperial Japanese government in the 1920’s.

The wartime economies of the Axis powers generally relied on the forced labor of foreign nationals (such as, in the case of Nazi Germany, Polish people and Eastern Europeans in general, especially since “Slavs” were considered an “inferior race”) as well as domestic “undesirables,” (such as, in Nazi Germany, racial minorities, Jewish people, Roma people, gay, lesbian, and transgender people) meaning that essentially they were using the slave labor of people who they deemed inferior in order to prop up their economies. This is, aside from being a humanitarian disaster, an utter moral crime, also completely unsustainable, since they were working people to death. The problem with Fascism is that eventually there aren’t any more convenient “undesirables” for you to exploit. Furthermore the massive casualties and huge amounts of civilian drafts that took place in Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan caused massive damage to civilian morale, domestic economies, and the basic fabric of civil society. When you destroy a country, there’s only so much propaganda and nationalist ideology that you can inflict on a population before they collapse from despair or rise up in discontent.

THESE ARE SOME OF THE MOST BASIC FACTS OF THE HISTORY OF WORLD WAR TWO.

So, frankly, to make media that kinda-sorta sweeps this shit under the rug, like, Doesn’t Fucking Mention It At All, and treats Imperial Japan, Fascist Italy, and Nazi Germany as CUTE RELATABLE CHARACTERS WITH ADORABLE FRIENSHIPS, then i have no choice but to call that Nazi Propaganda.

Axis Powers Hetalia (which, side note, I really don’t get why American fans use that name for it since “Hetalia” is basically just a transliteration of “Italy” that fits better phonetically in Japanese,) is presented as a cutesy show. So people may be confused by my labeling of it as Nazi Propaganda, since that’s a very scary label! But, the thing is, that’s the POINT of propaganda. The POINT of propaganda is to be attractive, to be enjoyable, to be popular, to be engrossing, SO THAT YOU WILL ACCEPT, ON SOME LEVEL, PRO-FASCIST, PRO-IMPERIALIST IDEAS.

This is part of the mechanism for how the pro-Axis Powers manga/anime Attack On Titan (Shingeki No Kyojin) operates as well. I’m not going to go into depth explaining that right now, as honestly there’s a lot of material there and I don’t want to make this post any longer than it already is. I encourage people to go research the Fascist ideology in that show, as other people have written about that and I think it’s very clear once you see all the facts.

The antidote to propaganda is continuously studying and learning factual history, continuously applying critical thinking to ALL the media you consume.

There is a lot of media, especially in America and Japan, that includes Nazi elements for “shock value,” or, puzzlingly, for “comedy.”

Exercise critique and analysis of this media.

In fact,

Most importantly, exercise critical thinking and analysis towards all media.

Including the news, including video games, including social media, including film and radio and podcasts and webcomics.

Stay sharp. Ideas and messages are incredibly important.