#i was very tempted to give you the shitpost apologetic version only anon

[littlesparklight]

in your opinion whats the worst thing paris has done

In my opinion Paris is my precious 🥺 fluffy-headed son and has done nothing wrong in his life, ever - and if he has, no he didn't. :)

Ok but no.

If one goes with or prefers a version/interpretation where Paris did kidnap Helen (whether or not there was mutual desire before that) and has then been assaulting her throughout the war, then... that would obviously be the worst?

But since I don't interpret/go with that version, but rather that this was a case of seduction and mutual attraction and that, whatever other factors there was on Helen/in her leaving, she wasn't kidnapped, I don't consider that the worst thing he's done. Even when I do think Helen and Menelaos' marriage was good and with mutual affection and desire before he turned up.

(Sorry, I am simply not ever going to not consider the fact that Menelaos can go fuck whoever he wants (and he does!) and Helen can't, whether she elopes with her lover or not.)

So, as shitty as it undoubtedly is to be knowing party to an adultery situation and then running off with said wife, not that.

Breaking xenia, considering he didn't actually need to approach Sparta openly, is bad. Forming any sort of friendship (which I do think at the absolute least in terms of connection happened) with Menelaos in this situation is bad, even if Paris doesn't mean or use it as an intentional way of getting close to Helen. But also, approaching Sparta openly and staying as a guest is basically the only version that allows Helen to begin to know him beforehand. Which is what allows for anything other than kidnapping!

And so, in my opinion, regardless of Ancient Greek cultural reasons, and how shitty that is towards Menelaos, not this either.

And I don't actually think Paris leaving Oinone is particularly bad, either. It's the least bad thing in here; ending a relationship isn't bad. Divorce is a thing. Oinone is a nymph and isn't bound to mortal life and culture like a mortal woman would be, and doesn't "need" him. So this one is frankly neutral to me. (If he was cheating on Helen with Oinone and on Oinone with Helen that would be bad. But he clearly goes from one woman to the other.)

Here it is:

As much as I think that no one who doesn't want to should have to participate in war, and Paris being a coward is nothing I care about, considering that Paris is a prince of his city and thus he has a responsibility to his family, to his city, and to his people, shirking battle is it.

I cannot overstate how little I care about ~ooh he's a coward~ but just looking at it from that he did have a part in sparking the war, and his family (and/or Hektor and Priam, at least) are backing him up by not simply removing Helen from Troy (whether or not that would actually make the Achaeans go away), being unwilling to do his part consistently is... bad. I have understanding and sympathy for it but like. It's still bad. So. This is what I think is the worst thing.

(Do not fucking clown on Paris on here ok.)