#i was lamenting the descriptions in ds1 not being as good as 2 but we got some winners. a good amount

[tonyfinale]

what a good description.... it be like: WHAT DO YOU THINK IT'S LIKE DOWN THERE IN SEWER TOWN??? HOW DO YOU THINK PEOPLE SICKENED TO SUCH A FATE WOULD END UP......

[bellringermal]

Thoughts on the BB cut dialogue (part 1, probably)

Omg so many messages about the cut dialogue! You’re welcome guys :D glad you enjoyed it.

As far as my opinion on the new lines, I want first and foremost say that I was surprised by how big Laurence’s role was at some point but also how inconsistent it is. Which may be the reason why, despite being so important, he apparently never had an in-game model. They probably had no idea what to do with him till the very end which is why we ended up with reskinned Cleric Beast in the DLC.

I feel like Laurence was not ment to be the First Vicar in the beginnig until they decided to add the whole idea of the Healing Church as a faction. He was probably a hunter, maybe Gehrman’s original apprentice and an outsider just like us. This would explain why most of other characters directly tied to the Church also have little to no backstory. Amelia? Cleric Beast? In-canon, we know next to nothing about them.

Ludwig is the exception here, and his story is in my opinion the best one when it comes to execution, second only to Gehrman’s.

Back to Laurence:

Laurence, the end is not far away now. Every last dream will burn out, and Flora will return from the moon.

As for us, the time has come to honor our vows. Hunters are needed no longer, you and I shall fight to the death, and she will consume the victor.

The way we've always said we'd end it, you recall? Oh Laurence...of course you remember.

This to me, sounds a lot like a Highlander-like scenario (which possibly included dramatic beheading :P) between the last 2 Hunters standing and would make no sense if Laurence was a civilian with no combat training. What chances could he have against Gehrman? That’s hardly a ‘fight to the death’ between two equally skilled people if you ask me.

Long story short, my interpretation of this line is that it was the very first concept and also the first to be scrapped only to be reworked as the final fight between the player character and Gehrman, cutting Laurence out. Yes, I know that people are speculating that at some point in time we were supposed to play AS Laurence with amnesia or something but that idea would be really complicated to implement unless the storyline was streamlined. Yes, it worked in DS1 when we, as the Chosen Undead took the place of Artorias but that required time-travel and the prior knowledge of the Legend of the Abysswalker. In that scenario, we kneow what Artorias supposedly did: he went to Oolacile, traversed the Abyss and killed Manus. When it comes to Gehrman and Laurence’s plan we still don’t know what the heck they hoped to achieve and we probably never will. So, unless they were going to clarify it, I can’t see our character taking part in such a big plot reveal. This is Soulsborne after all :P

Those lines would’ve worked as a flashback of the events that led to the creation of the Dream if it didn’t contraddict the ‘canon’ storyline presented in the final game, which flat out states that

(Laurence) became the first cleric beast

Which sadly leaves no room for an epic final duel between two good friends.

Now let’s get to the really juicy stuff:

How magnificently the flame burns.

Hunters are held here, to be sent on horrific hunts, their souls rotted by blood and madness.

We've no need for this cursed abode, let flame cleanse this house of horrors!

Ah, these frightful things, look at them burn!

Old ye hunters, let it be known, we are free, free as the wind!

The bold text up here is what striked my immagination the most because it is, almost word for word, a description of the Hunter’s Nightmare that was probably developed later on during production being it a DLC area.

If you’ve listened to Micolash’s cut audio, it is clear that it was used as a prototype for the dialogue we got in the game, which is in my opinion way more polished and intriguinig. (not saying that cut micolash doesn’t sound cute :P don’t misunderstand me). Following the same train of logic, I believe that the Hunter’s Dream as a whole was supposed to be the Hunter’s Nightmare in concept but then they decided to expand this idea into what became the DLC and turned it into what is basically the ‘hell’ of the Bloodborne universe.

This is what Simon says about the Hunter’s Nightmare, to compare the two:

This is the Hunter’s Nightmare, where hunters end up when drunk with blood. You’ve seen them before. Aimless, wandering hunters, slavering like beasts. This is what the poor fools have to look forward to.

Gehrman here is presented as resentful and haunted by guilt, traits that the Gehrman we met in the game don’t seem to possess. Yes, he laments his condition as a prisoner of the Dream, but item description clarify that he is nostalgic of his days as a hunter and took great pride in what he did.

These lines, that were probably cut later on in development since they’re present in the game files as subtitles (while the previous ones are not, check the document for more info) match the Gehrman we know a lot better:

Yharnam... how easily she forgets, how quickly she dismisses. Time is a cruel, cruel thing. Haven’t you noticed?

Yes, the hunt must go on. It is all that keeps us human, now.

Since I can no longer hunt, this is all I can do...

Laurence, I’m getting old. I’m of little help, and to wake is to die... but I am not entirely useless, I can still do my share. How long I have waited, for this chance to do something.

These, to me, are the words of a man that would totally go back to the hunt if he could. To support this, the Old Hunter Badge also states:

This hunter's badge, crafted in Gehrman's time, has no practical purpose, except perhaps to assist in romanticizing the past.

This said, I am absolutely IN LOVE with those cut lines in which Gehrman seem to be the one setting the workshop on fire for one big reason: a character tearing down the place or thing that symbolizes their struggle and mistakes is a BIG, BIG TROPE/CLICHE’ that never gets old and I love it.

Just off the top of my head I can mention Victor Frankenstein who chases his creation to the end of the world to kill it and Dorian Gray stabbing his own portrait in their respective novels but also the Beast trashing the West Wing...

and heck, only a few days ago I saw freakin’ Kylo Ren crushing his mask against a wall while looking all angsty and conflicted XD

Joking aside, there’s also another reason why I adore those lines: Gehrman’s constant coughing heavily implies that he is still INSIDE the workshop as it burns down and I firmly believe that those were going to be his final moments in the first draft of the game’s script. Which is so fucking extra. I LOVE IT. What a drama queen.

As many other cut lines, scenarios and concepts I mentioned in this (long) post, even this one seems to me like an idea that then evolved into something else entirely, possibly splitting into Maria’s suicide and Laurence’s immolation.

We know for sure that the Old Workshop was never set on fire (in the final game) because it only looks abandoned and many of the things we find inside are neglected but undamaged, such as the Doll, the hair ornament and of course the umbilical cord used to beckon Moon Presence.