#i think there's a lot of nuance to him being a player

[venustrvck]

I think Oliver likes highly motivated women, the kind that's determined and will go after what they want and that's self assured & confident. He loves it when they've got that spark to them, it keeps things interesting and he likes being challenged. He also likes them because these are the type of women who'll get angry at him and slap him if they catch him with someone else, instead of cry about it.

[coralhoneyrose]

Why Chrom Fire Emblem is The Husband of All Time: An Essay

SO. There was a screenshot going around of a reddit thread asking about how Chrom has managed to maintain such lasting popularity as a Fire Emblem husband even 6 years after Awakening came out. Given how beloved he still is another 5+ years later, I could not resist taking the opportunity to talk about just what I think makes him so great and endears him to players.

Character Introduction:

Let’s start out the same way Awakening does—with Chrom’s in-game introduction. This is one of the immediate ways Chrom sets himself apart. The game boots up and before anything else happens, Chrom is there expressing his unshakable faith in the player character. You take down the Bad Guy™ together, he turns and gives you this wide, puppy-ish smile and then you push him out of the way to take the hit from an oncoming spell in his stead. Right away you know this is someone your player character cares about deeply—and clearly that care is returned, because he’s immediately running over to make sure Robin’s alright.

Of course, as we all know, things go south very quickly after that. But as the cinematic plays out, and you proceed to watch yourself stab him in the chest, the *first* thing he does, the very first words out of his mouth are: “this is not your fault”. Chrom has just been completely blind-sided and arguably betrayed by his best friend, possibly his spouse, and his immediate instinct is to absolve Robin of guilt. He is literally more concerned about Robin blaming themselves for what happened than about his own imminent death. That alone tells you so, SO much about the depth of their relationship. It tells you both how deeply Chrom cares and how well Chrom knows Robin too. And not only that, but his final request, the ONE and only thing he asks of Robin before dying is that they will promise him they will escape from this place. In his last moments, his single “selfish” wish is for Robin to assure him that they will do what they can to survive. Chrom’s final request is for Robin to give him the comfort and peace of mind he can only obtain through the assurance that even though he won’t get out of there himself, Robin will. He just wants to be able to die believing they’ll take care of themselves and be alright—and knows them well enough to realize that unless he makes them promise, they likely won’t.

AND THEN. And then!!!! You jump cut to Robin waking up in the field with all the sunshine and Chrom’s smiling down with the softest expression and his ridiculously blue eyes. He lifts Robin up by the hand and pulls them right up to his face (because he has no concept of personal space, apparently) and OUUuuggh.

Those scenes in direct sequence make me so insane. You get Chrom’s life ending with Robin immediately followed by Robin’s life starting anew with Chrom. Chrom’s unwavering faith in them and his eagerness to extend his hand and bridge the gap between them from the moment they meet until his last breath. The warmth and kindness and love that Chrom treats Robin with is communicated so effectively in the first few MINUTES of the game it honestly makes me feel unwell. Showing how profoundly Chrom cares for Robin immediately endears him to the player. And he only gives you more reasons to love him as the game goes on.

Personality:

There can be a tendency in some corners of fandom to simplify Chrom to just being either a generic prince charming type character or a lovable himbo. I’m not here to police how other people enjoy him, but I will say that those characterizations fail to get at some of the aspects of his personality I find most compelling.

Chrom is deceptively nuanced. While there are certainly ways in which he aligns very closely with the standard jrpg protagonist, I suspect that a lot of his enduring popularity is the result of the ways he deviates from it too. He is brave and loyal and cares deeply for his friends, yes. He has profound conviction in his ideals and strives to do the right thing, as is typical for that archetype…but what makes Chrom so lovable is his determination to keep trying to be good in spite of the ways it does not come easily to him.

We see this in the Valm arc, when he’s struggling to reconcile his own beliefs about justice with his sister’s ideals for peace. We hear echoes of it when he talks about the horrors the Ylissean people endured at his father’s hand and how despite that, he has never been able to understand how Emmeryn forgave them for the cruelty they once directed her way. He has so much admiration for his older sister’s ideals despite the fact that peace is not his first instinct. 

When Emmeryn first sacrifices herself, Chrom is consumed with grief and rage, and it takes some time for him to understand why she made the decision she did. “Peace above all else” is just not how he’s programmed to operate…yet he wants it to be. If you count the drama CDs as canon, then that serves as another excellent example as well—where the message of his sister’s sacrifice is so lost on him that his first instinct is to respond to it with violence and prejudice and hatred directed at the very people she sought to reach out to. For a moment there, we see him veer from the person he wants to be towards what we as the player can only assume is the person his father left him afraid that he would become.

And yet he finds his way back. He stumbles, he lashes out, but his love for his friends and fear of losing more of those he holds dear is able to help him course correct.

I love that tug-of-war in him. I love that we get glimpses of the darker paths he could have gone down and that there are tangible consequences for his mistakes. Early in the game, we see Chrom lose control of his temper and how Gangrel and Aversa are able to take advantage of that to officially declare war on Ylisse. Chrom later tells Gangrel that were he alone, he can imagine losing himself in that need for vengeance but reiterates that it’s love that is able to keep him from succumbing to that.

And it’s not only that he’s able to stop himself from being horrible—his losses are the catalyst for him coming into his own as a leader. He’s able to pick himself up and hold himself together to see their troops through the rest of the war. And he manages that despite the fact that in the course of mere days, he lost both his home and his most important person and has been freshly saddled with the duty of ruling an entire country. That’s…a lot. And really goes a long way in demonstrating Chrom’s incredible strength of character and conviction. We get some wonderful moments of vulnerability where he confesses to being riddled with doubts about his own capabilities and worthiness, but in spite of that, he is still determined to try to be the person that Ylisse needs him to be.

All of this leads me right into another wonderful aspect of Chrom’s personality, which is that he is just…so driven by emotion. He feels DEEPLY, and while the narrative definitely uses that as a way to hurt him and force him to grow at times, something that really stands out to me about Chrom is how the story isn’t here to send a message that it’s wrong for him to be that way. Chrom’s big feelings are one of his greatest strengths in addition to his greatest weakness—they’re what saves his life and ultimately Robin’s too, if you go the sacrifice ending route.

And ya know what? I honestly think that’s such a breath of fresh air. I love how much he does NOT embody the emotional disconnectedness that you see pushed a lot of times with stereotypical masculinity. I love that he is the hero, and he's gallant, and very traditionally "manly" in a lot of senses…AND that he's also very emotional and guided by his heart. If you’re playing with f!Robin then you wind up with a really refreshing inversion of gender stereotypes from that: in which Chrom is the emotional decision maker and Robin is the more calculating and logic driven of the two.

Beyond his big heart, I can’t talk about what’s so charming about Chrom’s personality without touching on the ways he embodies a certain level of gap moe as well. Chrom is so stern and serious, as well as quite charismatic when he’s speaking from a place of passion. But on the flip side of that, we get to see him as an absolute bumbling mess when he’s out of his element. He’s easily embarrassed / flustered, self-conscious about his appearance, and often socially awkward where romance is involved. While these traits may seem of minor importance compared to the whole rant above, I think they’re really important for humanizing and rounding him out.

There are lots of other nuances to his characterization that go a long way in fleshing him out too. Despite being a prince, Chrom is blunt and completely unmindful of formalities. That, along with his impulsivity, definitely gets him into trouble sometimes. He’s melodramatic and blisteringly sincere. He’s a little bit clumsy and doesn’t know his own strength. He has a dry sense of humor and can be surprisingly funny. He’s optimistic and trusting—not due to naivete or stupidity but because he has decided that giving people chances and believing the best of them is an important value to him and one that is worth embodying in how he lives his life. 

Lucina’s presence in the story and his immediate and complete acceptance of her is an extremely effective way of demonstrating what an incredible father he is too. Honestly, he just has really wonderful relationships and deep admiration for a lot of the women in his life and that absolutely earns him points in my book (and I suspect in many others’ as well). When you look at all of that together, I don’t think it’s hard to understand why he’s so beloved.

Design:

Slightly less serious note here, but I think it warrants discussion regardless because character design absolutely contributes to player’s feelings about and interpretation of a game’s cast members.

And Chrom is…well, he’s eye candy, honestly. He’s got the nice, exposed arm, the messy blue hair, the completely nonsensical outfit he somehow manages to look handsome in anyway (his questionable sense of fashion is a charm point, okay?). Add in the square jaw and the surprisingly long eyelashes and he’s just. He’s very pretty. Idk what to tell you. Bonus points for the summer scramble cg where he has the most inexplicably flat butt of all time. And I really do believe that some of the oddities of Chrom’s design lend memorability to him and go a long way in setting him apart from other lords in the series with similar design concepts. The insistent asymmetry across many of his outfits, the fact he’s showing a little skin, idk it just WORKS. Chrom is hot, I don’t make the rules.

Relationship with Robin / the Player Character:

Last but not least, I want to talk about Chrom’s relationship with Robin.

I touched on some of this in his character introduction already, but Chrom is just…the biggest Robin stan. If Robin has only one fan then that is Chrom. If Robin has no fans it’s because Chrom is bleeding out on the floor with lightning in his gut. 

He just has such deep respect and admiration for them. He values Robin’s opinion and insight and thinks so highly of them and their ideas, often serving as an enabler in many cases (setting the boats on fire, the volcano, etc.). Chrom’s faith in Robin is SO unshakable that when his daughter tells him that Robin is going to be magically controlled and forced to murder him, his response is, “That won’t happen because Robin and I love each other so much that everything will somehow be okay. No, I will not elaborate.” And ya know what? He was RIGHT. Their bond DOES wind up being so strong that it’s able to change fate. The narrative is quite literally validating his slightly ridiculous insistence that him and Robin just care about each other The Most of Anyone Ever. He is Robin’s biggest advocate from the moment they meet when he defends them from Frederick’s suspicions all the way to the game’s close when he either assures Robin that their life was worth preserving or, as in the case of the sacrifice ending, that he will spend the rest of his own life searching for them until they return.

Honestly the fact that Chrom was willing to potentially risk dooming the whole world to the fell dragon’s awakening 1,000 years down the line just so he doesn’t have to lose his comfort tactician is WILD. For the game’s hero to literally say “we don’t have to defeat this evil for good, the people of the future can figure it out” JUST so he can keep Robin is absolutely unhinged behavior and I love it. I think it’s incredibly humanizing that he’s a little bit selfish about the people who are most important to him…that despite his willingness to sacrifice himself or run headfirst into danger, he draws the line at losing Robin because he’s already lost his most important person once and he’s not going to let it happen again. Chrom and Robin absolutely come across as a little codependent and a lot obsessed with each other and personally I wouldn’t have it any other way.

And then there’s his love confession to Robin. GOd...

I think that’s the most flustered Chrom appears in any content in the entire game…and it’s because he treasures their friendship so deeply that he is petrified about messing it up or saying the wrong thing. I love that he goes into their S support dead set on NOT telling Robin what is going on but the second he realizes that Robin is under the impression he doesn’t care about them or like spending time with them anymore he is so horrified and desperate to correct that line of thinking that he blurts out the full love confession on the spot.

He’s SO earnest throughout the whole thing, but then at the end he hits you with the whole “this is the best day of my life”, and the “You are the wind at my back and the sword at my side. Together, my love, we shall build a peaceful world, just you and me” (thank you Matt Mercer for your services), and the cg image of him staring right at Robin with what are basically heart eyes and. I just. There were no survivors.

That’s not even their only proposal / love confession scene either! The fact that the game gives us an entirely separate alternate proposal that’s more serious in tone is the icing on the cake. How many ships out there can say that they get not one but TWO canon proposals that are both that good? Truly no one is doing it like chrobin.

Closing Remarks:

Chrom is a well written and nuanced character who struggles and grows over the course of the story while always remaining true to himself and his ideals. His intense and unending trust, admiration, and love of Robin endears him to the player from the moment the game begins all the way to its conclusion. He is kind and good while still being fundamentally flawed (and it doesn’t hurt that he’s very handsome to boot). Bearing all that in mind, while the message of Awakening may be that nothing is inevitable, Chrom’s conceit and execution were always going to lead to MANY of those who play the game coming to love him and pick him as Robin’s husband…and there may be no greater evidence of that then the fact I’m out here writing all of this eleven years after the game’s release.

[psychotrenny]

I don't think "Fascist" is a very useful or accurate thing to call Caesar and his Legion (from Fallout: New Vegas) in the context of the game world itself. Like there are a lot of aesthetic similarities and basically all of their unironic real world fans are some sort of Nazi Nerd, but when talking about their place within the context of fictional post-nuclear Nevada it just doesn't work. Like Caesar's whole deal is that he's a Social Scientist who, living in a world that's been "blasted back to the Stone Age", figures that society must evolve through the same stages if it wants to properly return to modernity. The Legion is basically comprised of "Primitive Communists"* who've been forced into a Slave Society. His criticisms of the NCR boil down to them being a moribund remnant of/reversion to Old World Capitalism rather than something organically adapted to the post-Nuclear world. He repeatedly talks about how the Legion isn't meant to represent an ideal society but simply a stepping stone onto something better (the thesis that will clash with it's antithesis and evolve into a superior synthesis). His interactions with the Courier heavily imply that the Legion's Misogyny, Homophobia, Tech aversion etc. are much more tools of social organisation and control than values that Caesar personally holds. The Legion isn't just some band of mindlessly violent reactionaries but the product of very deliberate Social Engineering; a peculiarly post-nuclear sort of scientifically planned society

Now I'm not defending the Legion as a "good" choice or anything; Caesar's plan has a lot of problems, it's not hard to poke holes into and in terms of unadulterated cruelty The Legion is easily the most morally repugnant of the main factions. But the thing I really love about The Legion is how, within the specific context of Fallout's setting, it makes sense. Like once you really think about it you can understand why someone in Edward Sallow's position would arrive at these conclusions, and there are good reasons why (if you take your roleplaying seriously and don't treat the Player Character as an extension of yourself) someone living in this world might chose to side with him. The Legion may be terrible but it's not evil for the sake of evil; there's genuinely a compelling ideology behind it.

It's why I get sad when I see so many people dismiss them as the "dum dum fascist slavers" because there's so much more to them than that. Like I think the best part about The Legion is how ridiculous they first appear ("These raiders dress like Ben-Hur extras?????) but once you find out more about them then it all starts to click ("Oh I see their leader is trying to assimilate them into a distinct and alien culture in order to maintain their loyalty; severing their previous connections and giving them a whole new identity"). So it sucks to see so many people get caught up in the first part and never make enough connections to reach the second. Like in general, Fallout: New Vegas is very messy and flawed and yet it's full of all these interesting little nuances and I think that's worth appreciating it. It's why, time and time again, I keep walking down that dusty road

*in the very broad sense that Fallouts "Tribals" are meant to represent people who have reverted back to some sort of pre-state society; of course there are countless problems with how Fallout treats this matter (including but not limited to incredible amounts of racism) but in order to understand Caesar we're forced to meet the game on it's terms

[galedekarios]

i'm reading a new interview tim downie gave about gale and it offers some of tim's own headcanons about gale, as well as tim's thoughts and insights on gale's character:

Nerds & Beyond: I like that you mentioned that the game is full of rounded characters because they are, they all have different aspects that make them feel real. I adore that Gale specifically is so serious and studious, but at the same time he has this really playful side — he often jokes about how he was a mischievous youth, he encourages other people like Arabella to do so, he understands when The Dark Urge first mentions their violent thoughts. There is a lot of nuance and depth there. But the quality that I love with Gale most is that obviously he is very ill when we first meet him – not that we know immediately – and he’s dealing with a lot of chronic pain. I find him incredibly selfless because he takes that day-to-day head on to help the party, which is an aspect I feel continues to show throughout the three acts. What’s your favorite quality of Gale’s, or what did you take away from him? Tim Downie: It’s so interesting hearing you say that, because I had so many different feedbacks about what people take from the character and sometimes things really surprise you. It’s interesting hearing that such and such has taken that particular aspect, because there are broad things like “He’s funny,” and that’s quite nice, that’s a nice trait, though not one you necessarily get to see that much. It’s so interesting hearing other people’s views about what they take from Gale.  The idea of dealing with chronic pain I found really interesting and an interesting subplot to play, and that was the great thing about doing something like this is that it is so unbelievably nuanced. You have so many layers that just keep going and going and going, as much as we all contain multitudes within ourselves. We all deal with these things, but only certain things pop up to the surface at any given point.  What did I take from Gale, though? I liked his studiousness. I would imagine that he was probably bullied as a kid for it, and he was probably a bit of a joker because he was bullied, and he uses that as a defense. But an even bigger defense for him is “I now know stuff that I didn’t before,” and that’s a power. It’s very similar to when you are being bullied and you’re the funny one – that’s your power, that’s your thing. “I may not be able to hurt you in a traditional sense, but I can say things that will make you feel pain,” which is a very different thing because you physically can’t go after them.  That’s the wonderful thing about acting and this character as well is being able to explore all these things that you might not have, that you might have gone, “I’m not gonna look at that again, I don’t want to deal with that,” and then it brings it up again and it’s like, “Oh, this is actually quite cathartic,” to re-explore these these moments of sorrow and loss and how you deal with grief and things like that and heartbreak and how you get over that.  It’s not all just tears, you do try and make a joke of it.

i really like that they are addressing the topic of gale's chronic pain. it's something that doesn't get addressed often, not even in the game itself.

i also found his answer as to why people might connect to gale very nice:

Nerds & Beyond: Gale is the most popular origin character to play as. What is it about him that you think allows so many different players to connect with him to the depths the fandom has? Tim Downie: I really don’t know. I think you’d have to ask the players that, ‘cause I don’t know, to be quite honest with you. He’s a wizard, and who wouldn’t want to be a wizard at the end of the day? I always say the difference between wizards and sorcerers is that sorcerers just pretend – they just assume they know what they’re doing, but a wizard has really learned this trade. And so there’s that kind of weight of knowledge and learning, which I would love to play as and be for a length of time.  I think it’s also the frailties. I like characters, and a lot of people do I’m assuming, that have flaws, otherwise you’ve made them completely unapproachable. To be completely superhuman or completely extraordinary at something then removes the humanity from it because it becomes like, “Well, that’s never gonna happen.” But when there’s a flaw, when there’s, “Oh, I’ve got that wrong, too,” or like, “My knees hurt” as you say, or “I’ve got a bit of a headache. I really don’t want to do this,” “You’re really annoying me, this is very annoying, could you please hurry up?” or “Stop licking the damn thing,” it’s always those moments that are fun because it shows what we’re all thinking at that point, it removes it from almost archetype and stereotype and it becomes human in a way.

gale is approachable and likeable, has flaws, but is genuinely nice. i think that very much sums up his character.

this bit here made me laugh:

Nerds & Beyond: When you’re talking about those different layers in the humanity building, I think one of the most important aspects in this game is the more “background” or passive dialogue, so dialogue that is prompted in the world and not in the cut scenes.  For instance — the first time I made Gale sneak he immediately complained about his knees, and it was such a real moment where he was just like, “Oh, don’t make me do this. This is not what I’m here for, I’ve got bad knees and I’m not made for this.” Did you have any of those background lines or moments that stick out as being particularly fun to craft?  Tim Downie: I remember the first time I ever had to do waiting, I found it infinitely interesting in so many ways. The idea that I did actually just have to wait and just actually, “Hmm…” Those little things I find really funny because they’re probably the closest to me that the character ever gets. His waiting mannerisms are kind of very English – slightly annoyed and I’m not going to show it to you though because we’re all being very nice, but I’ll do it with a huff and a slightly sarcastic, “Well, that’s great. Another 20 minutes. That’s great.” Those kinds of sentiments I found wonderful and incredibly fun, and funny, to do. 

if you want to read the whole interview for yourself, you can do so here!

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

I have a question about Jpn v Eng fandom differences? I've always been really disturbed and hurt by how the Eng fandom treats Jamil's ob situation compared to the other boys as somehow less forgiving or understandable since Kalim is so beloved. But I've been told this might be because the Eng servers greatly tone down the slavery/master situation as less "indentured" and more "employed but miserable". How does the Jpn fanbase generally feel about Jamil?

Yes, there were significant changes made to the Scarabia duo in the Twst localization and I believe it is these changes that resulted in the English-only fandom misunderstanding Jamil's reasons for overblotting + treating Jamil's OB as "less serious" than the others. I believe it has very little to do with Kalim's popularity, as I don’t recall him being very popular in EN and especially when compared to the other dorm leaders.

So firstly, what you heard about EN changing the master/servant relationship to an employer/employee relationship is somewhat correct. In JP, they consistently use "servant", "aide", or "personal attendant" to refer to Jamil and his family members' status. In EN, they sometimes use words like "helper" or "employee" or “aide” instead of "servant". Jamil’s parents are referred to as part of the Asims’ servants, but the term “servant” is scarcely used to refer to Jamil’s own relationship with Kalim. This by itself already somewhat lessens the power gap between the two, as using words like "helper"/"employee"/“aide” just give the impression that Jamil is simply disgruntled and could leave to find employment elsewhere whenever he likes. In reality, this is not the case--but it is not properly conveyed in EN.

The bigger factor at play here, I fear, comes from the edited lines of dialogue explaining the consequences for Jamil breaking from the Asims' control. In JP, he states that his entire family would suffer if he dared to defy the Asims. He provides an explicit example of being put out on the streets if he acts in selfishness. These lines are scrubbed and replaced with, "How could I betray our history like that? It would be beyond the pale. Not to mention the lecture I would get from my parents. I'm sorry, but it just wouldn't be right."

So... in EN, Jamil's worst worry is that his parents will be mad at him, versus in JP, where Jamil confesses his entire family will be without ANYTHING if he steps of line. JP gives the impression that the Vipers are almost being held hostage to force Jamil's obedience and servility. I think you can see why this would result in some different perceptions based on which version you play. To be fair to EN though, Jamil does get the line, "There would be consequences for my entire family if [Kalim] were exposed to any danger." However, said "consequences" are left vague and never elaborated on.

This has been an endless source of ire for Scarabia (and especially Jamil) fans 😔 It hurts them to see their favorite boys and their nuanced relationship fudged this badly. It hurts them to see others not grasping the full extent of how powerless and hopeless Jamil is in his circumstances. It hurts them to see people comparing Jamil’s trauma to others’ trauma and deeming it unworthy of empathy. It’s so ironic that a huge part of Jamil’s frustration stems from him having no one who understands him, yet the localization has made it so that English-only players aren’t understanding him as intended.

To your question; Jamil is actually a reasonably popular character in the JP fandom. He's not top 5, but I believe he's usually in the top 10. I think a lot of it comes from finding his story complex (as they're getting the original version), but also because a LOT of Japanese people--or those who come from collectivist cultures--find his struggles relatable. Filial piety is very strong in many eastern cultures, and Asians generally feel an immense pressure to be loyal to their families or to take actions that would benefit the group, even if it makes the individual miserable... all for the sake of preserving the group's harmony. This concept is less prominent in the west, so this, paired with the changed dialogue lines, may have resulted in Jamil's story not quite landing with western audiences.

[radioactive-mouse]

I get how tempting it is to just label flower husbands as “toxic” and move on, but god they can be SO much more nuanced than that, it makes me insane.

I think something that goes largely unexplored by the fanbase is c!scott’s obsession with composure. he’s clearly very proud of his ability to stay calm under pressure and be two steps ahead of everyone else— not that he’s afraid to rely on people, him and cleo very clearly have that unshakable trust between them, but i think that sometimes he gets so wrapped up in being steady, reliable scott, never hot-headed, never spiteful, or clumsy, or nervous.

and jimmy is a very real threat to that composure, more often than not.

and i think the way their relationship functions in 3rd life, while steady at the time, definitely set them up for complications down the road. scott, for as fiercely dedicated to his allies as he is, kind of tends to handle jimmy with kid gloves for the earlier parts of their relationship. he’s not very good at the death game, but that’s fine, he doesn’t need to be, scott will take care of it— he’ll get them set up with armor and potions and walls and jimmy can do… whatever it is he does when scott’s not around. mostly getting swindled, if he had to guess. but it’s fine, because scott can be steady, level headed, clever—

i do think most of scott’s ribbing about how he doesn’t know why he lets jimmy do anything when all he does is get scammed half the time is genuinely all in good fun, (jimmy is more than happy to play the fool most of the time, if only to bring a little bit of levity to things) it is super symptomatic of the way scott actually thinks about him. i don’t believe he thinks jimmy is actually stupid or anything, but i do think scott doesn’t quite trust him to get anything done. scott would never in a million years let himself lean on jimmy for any kind of support, because in scott’s mind jimmy’s job is to be bright and brash and only listen to that heart of his that’s too big for his body, too big for this game.

and i think too often we forget just how much losing jimmy destroyed scott in 3rd life. you ever think about how wrecked he must’ve been to place 10th despite being a consistent finalist in every other season? do you think about how all he has left is the burning, white-hot urge for revenge from the second jimmy’s body hit the ground?

i don’t think scott ever wants to feel like that again. i don’t think scott wants anyone to see him like that again. i think scott tries very hard to love jimmy from a safe distance where no one gets hurt. and i think that distance fucking kills jimmy, metaphorically speaking.

(also, tangentially related, i think there’s something to be said for how instantly tango goes “we only have a short time together, your curse will probably get us killed, and that’s fine.” and how jealous scott gets of that sentiment. as far as scott is concerned, tango and jimmy are of the same niche— they feel everything, loudly, even if it causes problems and even if it gets messy. and god that just makes his blood boil.)

i’m just so… entranced with the way scott carries himself with so much confidence and it’s not like he’s insecure, he really believes that, he’s a strong player and he knows that, but also revealing any emotion he deems to be “ugly” or “messy” makes him start to completely unravel. the driving force behind him is always love and loyalty and protectiveness over the people he cares about, but he’s juggling that with being dead set on never getting so close that losing them will completely ruin him.

anyway, this is getting away from me, but i think a lot of jimmy’s frustration with scott comes from the fact that he refuses to let their relationship go both ways, and i think by the time of the infamous “say i love you back” scene in limlife he’s just exhausted with throwing himself repeatedly against scott’s brick wall of perfectionism. that, and the whole Situation between them in double life, which i could honestly make it’s own post but good god i need to STOP typing or this will go on forever. forgive my completely disorganized ramblings i just have been trying to get all this down on paper FOREVER

[shoutydwarf]

veilguard spoilers !

literally None of these characters are above b tier for me except davrin and that's carried by him being a grey warden that doesn't need me to therapy speak him into being fixed.

sorry to be a toxic origins bro on main but my favorite characters are always the ones that don't recognize me as the player character pressing the buttons. their development isn't contingent on me making choices for them. they have opinions i don't agree with and which i can't change their mind on, a la vivienne/anders. alistair is one of my top companions because he has LINES in the motherfucking SAND. he will be your brother and/or your lover for the entire game but if you don't put his vengeance above your duty to the wardens, he will leave, if not attempt to seize power and force his ends. same for most all other origins and 2 companions (and inquisition to a lesser degree) - A. the option EXISTS to fundamentally piss them off to the degree they will want to kill you, and B. some of them literally WILL try to kill you. that's how roleplaying games are supposed to work. i am supposed to be a person in this world surrounded by other people in this world and i expect it to feel like that. moreso, i know they CAN make it feel like that, because they DID that in all 3 previous games.

there is no way to fail loyalty missions in VG. characters are so lukewarm that the guild of looting, pirating thieves exercises ethical tomb raiding and does monologue you about it. not a single one has any opinion that beckons you to use your brain cells. these characters do not evoke any emotion from me. i could write whole think pieces on why vivienne has the disposition that she does, why she thinks she's right, why i fundamentally disagree with her but still greatly empathize with her and consider her the best option for divine (out of 2 other companions that are just as complex). i have NOTHING to say about the veilguard companions. there is NOTHING to talk about here.

every single one of their villains are entirely one dimensional and unforgivable. THAT is the true disney aspect of the game. loghain, meredith, samson, calpernia, bhelen, branka, the architect, celene and gaspard, even fucking HOWE all have nuances and complexities to them that, even if you still end up at the conclusion that they're awful, you still have some things to think about. there are reasons leading up to their descents into cruelty and madness beyond just "me wanted power :p for fun :p"

this is also part of why davrin is the only memorable character for me; his villain was someone i knew and, frankly, the only interesting one out of the entire lot but only because she had an entire book's worth of setup. harding's was also great but because of the larger issue with zero catharsis for the titans, i have to kick her down several tiers with the rest of Mid Town.

don't get me started on the hardening system and how it can literally only happen to a single companion as a consequence to a single choice in the entire game. and then that 'hardening' actually has no bearing on their loyalty missions or, in neve's case, their romance.

the game does not make me think at all. it is designed to be consumed but not digested. there is nothing beyond the curtains. there is nothing to discuss. there is no nuance, no spice, no complexity, no grey areas. all that exists to talk about here is "i liked this part" and "i didn't like this part".

it is, like too fucking much of modern media, brain rot soup. and it doesn't even taste good.

[windcarvedlyre]

Thinking about DR1 chapter 1 again.

DR doesn't always have the best track record with women but god does it still do a lot well, especially in the first game. In the first chapter, where we still don't know what to expect in terms of character depth, I feel like Kodaka really takes advantage of that by having Maizono and Ikusaba seemingly play into misogynistic archetypes only to completely subvert them later.

Like, ah yes, here's the female deuteragonist that's starting to emotionally rely on the male protagonist despite seeming much more capable and self-driven than him*. Welp, there she goes being fridged for his manpain or something- hang on, she did what now? She was manipulating him to frame him and her dying message was partly made out of guilt?? Holy shit, where did her act end and her genuine desperation and fear begin??? Did she even know herself?????

And ah yes, an airheaded model character. There she goes doing something stupid and being killed for it; shame there wasn't more to h-FUCKING HELLO?????

They're some of the shortest-lived characters in the series but still have so much nuance to them, just like every other character in DR, if you put even a little effort into looking below the surface. And both of them feel designed to call out the player in targeted ways for reducing people to stereotypes.

*Not my actual opinion of their dynamic either to be clear! The entire series is about dissecting people more deeply than that, separating talent and various types of mental strength and humanising everyone equally. Naegi's the protagonist and Maizono snaps and dies first for a reason.

[trifargo]

proposing some kind of alternate 2/2, where the thieves decided to check on joker just to make sure he's not tempted by maruki's deal, barged in to the cafe, and found out that akechi's life on limbo. more in cut

so if you ask me, i actually enjoyed their rivalry relationship a lot! but i also think it's placed in an awkward situation: the thieves don't hate him, especially because he wasn't fully at fault, but also i'm sure some of them will hold grudge or mixed feelings about him (and i think this bleeds into the writers too*). or in case of royal trio (which interactions i also enjoyed, but have a catch:), it's kinda funny how sumire doesn't actually know what happened to akechi in depth.

it makes sense for their relationship to be more "secluded/secretive" from the team, but also this is why i find it to be rocky if their relationship continue further, be it platonic or romantic, whatever you prefer. i can't imagine how will futaba feel if she found out, for example – given how much she seems to not care much about akechi**. and the game (understandably, for pacing reasons) keeps on avoiding to explore the nuance of akechi-joker's relationship effects deeper in the game.

the concept is not only for joker to be even more torn seeing his friends arguing & akechi's fate, but also to see the polarization among the thieves, akechi being conflicted between disgusted and teammate care (boiler room but worse?), and maruki regretting seeing that he's not making things any better or easier for everyone, especially joker (hoo may be interesting to see how the thieves feel about maruki too after this).

well, i still wish for a P5RST game that reunites them all, one of them because i want this to be explored..... oh well. i know his arc has a closure already, but... yeah. i'm honestly more of a platonic akeshuake guy because of this (i've also always been a platonic guy in general, though), but i also don't like the crowd who thinks the PT hates him and thinks they only see them as a killer. and i think resolving the awkward situation between the PT and akechi could make more players open up about the dynamics between them that can be explored, instead of being stuck thinking the extremes.

* a prominent example of this was ryuji. ryuji brought up akechi a lot as one of the reasons upon confronting shido (he even banged the boiler room door), but then said "uh it was for joker" when akechi thanked them for taking shido down in 3rd semester mementos. while i think this is possibly because ryuji has a bigger affinity for joker because well, he's the team leader, close friend, and akechi is still at wrong, i thought it was a bit... backlashy tone wise? i was under the assumption that he did it both for akechi and especially joker, but the mementos dialog made it sound like he only did it for joker. just felt kinda rough in showing the nuance on how he feels.

** like the talk when they all found out the effects of maruki's reality wearing off. when the topic was about realizing akechi "dies" once again, she ignored it and brought up about her mother instead. though, i think this is still more of the consistent examples in writing how each thieves feel about akechi. she has always been bringing up about her mother more often in shido arc, while still can understand where akechi came from.

[bitethedevil]

What do you like about the character of Raphael ?

A Feral Love Letter to the Devil We Know

Oh boy. Here’s my list of why Raphael is like catnip to me (it’s not short and it is possibly a bit extra deranged because I am currently sick).

Purely physical things that convince me that this man was made for me in a lab:

Brown eyes and dark hair has always been my type

The slight stubble and those cheekbones (generally just his whole facial structure is beautiful)

The fucking n o s e <3 <3

Those thick thighs (perfectly sittable and bitable). He is just perfectly shaped.

Those hands he waves in your face all the time and those long fingers (does things to me)

His clothes. Yes, even in cambion form and even the silly clown boots, I love them. It is just all too extra, and I live for it

Everything about his cambion form

I have this crazy theory. There has been made these studies that depending on hormone levels, women are attracted to different kinds of men. At one end of their cycle, they prefer more ‘feminine’ looking men, and on the other end they prefer more traditionally ‘masculine’ looking men. If I get tired of his human form, I get more attracted to his cambion form and the cycle repeats. I think that is why I just do not get tired of staring at this stupid man every day. I know I’m not crazy. It’s science (and we all know I’m a trusted scientist).

Non-physical things that intrigue me:

How expressive he is. I love how his face changes constantly and dramatically with each sentence he speaks. It’s mostly an act but he is so charismatic. He has ‘rizz’ like the kids would say.

I can’t fix him. I don’t want to. His mind games intrigue me. I want to study him like a bug and play mind games with him too (I’m not delusional enough to think I’d win). Let it be toxic as fuck on both parts.

This man is just chucking stones from his glass house like there is no tomorrow. He plays such a big bad devil, but he is really just a little wet cat with a god complex and daddy issues. Not to mention his little hissy fits if any of his perceived weaknesses are pointed out. I find it endearing (unfortunately).

His voice and his eloquence. I love it. Even his shitty poetry. I could listen to it for eternity.

He is so smart. I have been shouting it from the roof tops: he is not stupid. He is always ten steps ahead.

He’s honest. He doesn’t lie and you know where you’ve got him (if you know how to keep up with him).

Genuinely everyone thinks he sucks, both devils and mortals, and yet he thinks he is the shit, either genuinely or as a coping mechanism.

He just such a nuances character if you really dig into it.

Things I relate to:

The scheming and overthinking. Everything is meticulously thought out to the point of obsession. He is playing 4D chess but doesn’t even consider that the other players might just eat the pieces to win. He strikes me as someone who completely overcomplicates things for no reason, and I felt that.

His idea of order is very different from what’s actually orderly. It just has to make sense to him, like ‘what do you mean it’s not orderly to have dead people lying around, trash everywhere, and debtors running around aimlessly in my house? Completely intentional. What’s not clicking?”. I felt that too. There is order to my chaos, and you don’t have to understand it. I get it.

He’s a cringy theater kid with a love for poetry too.

I too find it annoying when other people don’t follow the script I had in mind for the conversation.

Just human enough to understand how human interactions works, but either doesn’t give a shit or genuinely thinks that just spouting vaguely threatening poetry to strangers is a completely normal thing to do.

The obsession and ambition that just completely makes him lose the plot of everything else.

He is just so obsessed with everything being perfect to a point where it almost seems silly.

Acts like he doesn’t care, but actually cares A LOT about how other people perceive him.

I could honestly keep going but you get the picture.

(Thank you for the ask <3)

[artist-issues]

I like Koba because he’s the perfect photo-opposite of Caesar, and the perfect villain for that franchise.

I like that the movies took their time and characterized him carefully, even in Rise of the Planet of the Apes, before anybody knew that he was going to be the villain in the second movie. The researchers are like, “he knows the drill, he’s been through a lot of labs.” When he’s just a dumb brute animal, with no superhuman intelligence, he causes the virus to be released to humanity. Remember how? By pretending to be calm when they put him in the scanning machine, but then thrashing suddenly and knocking that one lab assistant’s mask off, infecting him. He did that before he was self-aware and super-intelligent. He was a bitter and angry creature, and a cunning and vengeful creature, long before he got super-smart. And they keep that cunning bait-and-savage-switch character trait way later, in the second movie, when he pretends to be a silly monkey and then brutally murders humans when their guards are down.

But then when he is freed, and the humans are supposedly gone at the start of the second movie, I love the nuance that he wasn’t interested in overthrowing Caesar.

He was happy being the second-in-command. He had the opportunity to leave Caesar to get eaten by a bear in the opening scene of that movie—and instead he saves his life and looks horrified when he thinks Caesar is dead. They have a camaraderie. And he genuinely jokes around with Blue Eyes and tries to make him feel better after the younger ape is clawed by the bear.

Basically, it really was as if all he wanted was to wipe out the humans. When he thought they were gone for good, he was not the same bitter brute you see pushing Jacobs to his death or seizing the opportunity to beat up Will. He was happy just being one of Caesar’s advisors, living in the woods with the other apes.

But then humans come. And all this hate is back. And he still trusts Caesar and follows Caesar’s leadership, even if he thinks they should wipe all the humans out and satisfy his bloodlust from the beginning. He still submits to Caesar. But then Caesar pushes it by offering to basically help the humans do their work. Koba hates humans, and Caesar appears to be choosing them over him. And on top of that, you can see that in every confrontation he has with Caesar, Koba is interested in what the other apes think of him. Caesar stands up aggressively when Koba shouts at him, and Koba becomes aware that this is getting confrontational in front of everybody and backs down. Caesar almost chokes him out and Koba looks around at the other apes watching before asking forgiveness and regrouping.

So this means that there’s an element of wounded pride AND feeling like an outcast among the apes already mixed in with Koba’s hatred of humans, after Caesar doesn’t agree with him/punishes him. Then you can see Koba go from being a team player to being self-protective, and he starts using the other apes instead of being interested in them as family.

After realizing Caesar will never hate the humans, Koba basically had a choice to make. He could choose the apes, even though it has been revealed that they don’t share his hate. Or he could choose his hate—but he can’t have both, because the apes don’t want to hate humans if it means war. And we see that he wouldn’t give up his hate.

Koba’s own hate completely swallowed him up, to the point where he saw not only humans, but other apes, as disgusting. He starts killing just to kill. After the bloody war starts, he completely stops trying to manipulate Blue Eyes or gain the other apes’ approval. He just kills apes that disagree with him and humans in his way, alike.

Caesar points that out in their final battle. But that’s what makes Koba such a good opposite to Caesar. Caesar is, like I said in the other post, all about “family.” He’s all about protecting the apes he chooses to regard as his family, and it’s usually “protect them from hate.” But Koba doesn’t really regard the apes as his family. Maybe he was starting to, when he thought all humans were gone forever and was grateful to Caesar for freeing him from the labs, and there were no problems. But the truth is, while Caesar is all about making choices that protect, Koba is all about making choices that hurt.

And that’s what’s interesting. Caesar is defining what an “ape” is, and he knows it. He knows that he has a whole super-intelligent new species as his people, and they’re still deciding, every day, what being an “ape” means. And so Caesar struggles the whole second movie with the fact that apes and humans aren’t actually inherently different. Not when it comes to hate.

But if you think about it, that’s what separates the apes meaningfully from what they used to be: savagery. Just straight-up, plain “I feel mad so I’m going to lash out and rip up anything near me.” They got what from the serum? Advanced intelligence. Reason. Koba gets to the point where he can’t be reasoned with, and won’t show mercy or any of the “higher” sensibilities that come with that “higher being/human” thing the “evolved” apes have.

So when Koba chooses to be that way; when he chooses hate; when Koba chooses to kill his “family,” then Caesar kills Koba. Because Caesar is showing all the apes watching that final showdown: “true apes” do not kill and endanger one another. True apes protect each other. Koba only protects himself. So he doesn’t get to be an “ape” entitled to the same protection Caesar gives all his followers, and expects them to give one another.

I like that. Because Koba will kill anything that threatens or hurts him. But Caesar will only kill those who won’t let go of their hate—whether they’re human or primate.

I also just love the acting of the guy who plays Koba. And I love that he looks and moves more savagely than the other apes, even though he’s supposedly got the same level of intelligence and comparable experience to Caesar, the most “refined” ape. I love the way he talks, and I love, like I said, how careful and well-thought-out his characterization was.

[thecoolerliauditore]

Hi. I'll bite. What's the Jimmy ecosystem?

(completely genuine, feel free to direct me to an older post if there is one, i just didn't find it)

oh my goodness, an excuse to explain one of my strange pidgin language-esque terms of convenience that I'm not quite sure anyone understands outside of one or two people. that tubbytarchia guy put it into words pretty well if you're looking for the short version.

long version below:

"jimmy ecosystem" is more or less a shorthand I started saying to refer to the social system that keeps jimmy in his role of being "the worst one" (the butt of the joke, the one who goes out first, the obstacle to be surmounted, so on and so forth).

on the CC side of things, I think the imp and skizz podcast episode with joel put it best on how this came to be: jimmy is good at the youtube thing, and happy to be mocked or humiliated for the sake of making content. He's your guy for any gag, there's no wonder why he plays the goofy antagonist for so many of the POVs in esmp2.

but this creates a. very strange and sad effect when you look in from the perspective of character interpretation. esmp2 jimmy, for example, by being the bad guy in so many people's stories (especially when he really hasn't done much at all to earn the mockery he gets) feels more upsetting when you're watching his POV and it seems like no matter where he goes he gets mocked and bullied.

it carries over to almost every series: life series jimmy specifically gets this very clearly shown through his knack for being out first.

in a way I almost see the ecosystem and its effect on Jimmy (and Jimmy's performance) as an alternative school of thought to the canary curse. Both are concepts that explore Jimmy's "badness" being something forced upon him rather than something innate or entirely his failings as a player/person. Except while the canary curse ascribes the blame to nebulous concepts like The Watchers, the ecosystem puts the blame squarely on the people surrounding Jimmy who work at keeping him down. (<-- not that people can't like both ofc)

I used the term "ecosystem" because 1. it sounded funny and 2. it was what I felt like was the most fitting term, since the ecosystem especially when applied to the life series isn't so much people poking jimmy for fun but rather that and using it directly to their advantage to life themselves up. If Jimmy isn't out first, someone else will be, it might even be you, and you wouldn't want that so it is genuinely incentivized for you to keep Jimmy down as much as possible. This part has always been a bit heavy on the headcanon territory since historically the worse performing players are the ones much kinder to Jimmy, but it's definitely something to look at case-by-case.

Outside of literally his performance in the life series, I and others have also used The Ecosystem quite a lot to refer to Jimmy's relationships, mostly those with other men. Since Jimmy loves to do flirty bits, it spawns a lot of romantic plotlines, and when conjoined with the aforementioned inescapable bullying bit it gets... Weird, when you write about the characters.

With the exception of Tango, all of Jimmy's popular ship partners frequently hit, berate, mock and humiliate him, but all in their own special and unique ways. But one thing that tends to stay the same is that their relationships are nearly always more built on what the partner desires to get out of Jimmy.

I could go on but essentially: the ecosystem acts to me as an exploration of the intersection of skill at the game and worth as a person, as well as the themes of masculinity and gayness that I've found tend to pop up again and again in Jimmy's story. If you choose to read it as a story, of course.

Those initiated into the Ecosystem (Joel, Scott, Martyn, Grian, Fwhip, Sausage) have an understanding that Jimmy plays a certain lowest rung role in their social order and work to maintain that order for their own benefit (NUANCE button may be pressed here especially re: those first three). Those outside of the Ecosystem view it as a natural order they shouldn't disturb, sometimes even catching onto certain beliefs, e.g. "Jimmy is worse than everyone else" and internalizing them (Etho is a good example with how he was more or less Jimmy-neutral at the start of the life series and by the time SL/WL was happening he very casually says stuff like "oh, it's just Jimmy,"), few are completely oblivious to it and the fact that bullying Jimmy is what they Should Do socially but still will join in when prompted (Tango and Scar are very good examples).

If you've noticed that I've only listed male players, that is very much on purpose since even though there are women very much aware and participating in the ecosystem -- lizzie being the biggest example -- their involvement is, at least to me, noticeably a different flavour compared to the guys. Which I suppose makes enough sense with how much of it feels like a pseudoscientific wolf pack macho dynamic (and it probably doesn't help that they are entirely immune to the gay bits). Women in the Jimmy ecosystem is probably an entire post on its own, Lizzie alone could probably get quite a few paragraphs out of me.

anyway. very funny also to me to imagine jimmy as some sort of amoeba.

[blasphemousclaw]

speaking just about npcs: i wonder if people would be more nuanced about the hornsent if hornsent (guy) didn't try to kill the player in rauh even if you do everything right since a lot of souls players tend to take that personally (though i'll admit i also kind of wish that he got a more fitting end to his arc than a pretty meaningless death no matter what you do)

oh I’m sure people would have a much more positive opinion on Hornsent if his quest didn’t end in him being hostile towards the player no matter what; a lot of people play the game like a social sim and take it really personally when npcs are mean to them lol. which is fine, I’m not here to tell people how to enjoy the game, but it’s also really tiring to see so much negativity surrounding characters I like and to see their complexity reduced to “he’s mean” haha

tbh I really like Hornsent’s character arc though? when I did his quest it drove me INSANE that I couldn’t get him on my side no matter what, but I kind of LOVE that it was so unsatisfying?? from the moment the charm breaks, we were marked for death in his eyes simply because we’re one of Marika’s chosen, and he will never stop until all of Marika’s chosen are dead. it’s why he refuses more scorpion stew from us and keeps his distance throughout his entire quest… he can’t be our friend, because then he’ll like us and it will be that much harder to kill us when the time comes… he’s a character who can’t be saved because he’s committed himself to a violent quest for vengeance, which is a perfect microcosm of what I think is one of the dlc’s thesis statements — that violence only begets more violence.

[iamstillovingyou]

I've been seeing a lot of dicourse about Kang Dae ho lying about his being in the marines and I don't think that he is lying but rather he has a complicated story with it and, as his ptsd would imply, trauma Spoilers for Squid Games season 2 from now on!!

- First of all, the tattoo Why does he have one? If he's a marine, it makes sense. If he isn't, why get it? Does he lie about it on a daily basis? Does he brag about it? When he got into the games he had no way of knowing whether his status as a marine was something which would benefit him in some way, so he hasn't got the tattoo shortly before the games - he voluntarily shares that he is also a marine, in order to bond with Jungbae; Dae ho lights up and joins him with pride that he is also a marine -however, later we can see him evading the topic or reluctantly talking about it and his father - I'd say that he's not lying about having been in the marines and even if he were, as someone pointed out (bless you), Korean men are legally required to go through military training, so even if Dae ho isn't a marine, he must know how to use a gun/rifle because he's had the training - now why does he react like that, as if he didn't know how to handle a weapon - what if, as he says, he joined the marines because of his father (he didn't wanna go, he was forced to) and hated it so much and was traumatised by it; what if something happened while he was there, he couldn't obey an order because of fear/morality or lost his comrades/friends etc. *remember he didn't wanna be there in the first place* which leaves him with ptsd *which is activated later when the shooting starts* so he leaves the marines - maybe at this point, his father is mad at him and basically kicks him out of the house and he is left alone without his family and he's gotten into a bad situation and that's how he joins the games - now, I saw someone saying why he joined up the uprising at all, maybe to keep up his lie or maybe because he thought that this was the right thing to do, he doesn't want to let his friends down, but when it got to the shooting he couldn't do it - there is a lot more nuance to it and I really don't understand all the hate towards him, calling him weak and a coward, as if any one of us would act differently when faced with life or death - also keep in mind that they were outnumbered anyway, even if Dae ho came back with the ammo, they wouldn't have achieved anything because of the front man??? Like are we even watching the same show? Also he technically saved player 120 from dying, so there's that

Also you can see that he flinched when player 120 approaches him, as if waiting to be hit, which might imply previous abuse and trauma

[iridescentmirrorsgenshin]

masterpost pt 4 of alhaitham being endeared by kaveh, the second-hand embarrassment is pungent

- alhaitham's story quest

congratulations! you managed to make it to the end of your own story quest before indirectly mentioning kaveh! the close up of his smile when doing so is horrendous

the fond expression whilst feigning annoyance, the contrast between this expression and the ruminative ones he dons during this quest needs to be studied, these pixels fascinate me - also this part of the quest serves as the divide between alhaitham's professional life and the personal, us being in his house, and kaveh being home... i wonder if this is trying to tell us something (and then the ending dialogue before alhaitham kicks the player out implicitly confirming that kaveh is one of alhaitham's priorities through framing...)

the Infamous expression, this is criminal, i've watched the transition of his expressions here and yeah this is not just because of the angle

he's so amused by their rapport it's sickening

kaveh asking (hesitantly) for the second time if alhaitham really is okay and alhaitham responding that he is fine, and diverts the conversation back to their goading rapport - alhaitham fulfils the initial comment that kaveh made to him upon alhaitham returning, that the painting apparently isn't actually straight. the care they have for each other is apparent although disguised through goading because they cannot be emotionally open with each other

he knows exactly what to say to wheedle kaveh and he's so proud of this fact (i want to compare this teasing rapport to that one instance in a parade of providence, where kaveh loses in drawing lots and alhaitham points out the conflict of interest due to kaveh having a streak of misfortune in his usual goading way, only for kaveh to express genuine dislike for this, which causes alhaitham to startle and back off due to realising the extent of kaveh's upset. it serves to highlight that these typical examples of them 'bickering' are mostly inconsequential, with kaveh initiating the goading or whole-heartedly reciprocating, yes these types of exchanges only serve to reinforce kaveh's image of alhaitham as someone who is critical of him so yeah that isnt good, but that exchange in a parade of providence as compared to this scene in alhaitham's story quest is that there a manageable level they are able to navigate without risking genuine hurt)

he only said that so kaveh would call him out for said furniture, he is petty and proud and endeared - that being said, we deserve a boring 'ugly' wood carving reveal. also am obsessed with the og chinese where instead of kaveh saying 'don't go off buying furniture without me' he states that alhaitham does not have 'permission' to do so without him (which then probably parallels the line in a parade of providence where kaveh asks where alhaitham was for dinner and instead of 'i wasn't aware i had to report my whereabouts to you' alhaitham says 'am i to report my whereabouts to you?', just these little nuances that the eng misses)

he's so... fond? of kaveh's antics? right in front of kaveh's face? and kaveh just... assumes that alhaitham is thinking 'terrible' thoughts about outing him as poor and homeless? it just goes to show that kaveh sees a completely different version of alhaitham than is actually true

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Something I’ve noticed across collecting different cards is that Twisted Wonderland seems to have a bit of a skew in which characters get character x player ship bait. Between events and card lines, some characters look like they are getting neglected in the ship teasing category. Is there some kind of popularity bias behind this? Like maximizing profit or game popularity by targeting certain groups of fans among the fandom?

Mmm… I haven’t noticed a skew, personally. If there is one at all, I’d wager it isn’t significant and it’ll probably depend a lot on what point in time you’re evaluating at. Since TWST is consistently releasing new content, the voice lines are sure to “even out” eventually if given enough of a waiting period. For example, you could say that the GloMasq boys have “more” bait lines… until Playful Land boys were released the year after, thus leveling the playing field.

All cards have character x player ship bait to some degree. Most of them will have at least 1-2 lines which involves complimenting you/your look (and if not in the card lines, then directly in the event, especially when Yuu has changed into a new outfit), Yuu touching them in some way (or being invited to), or asking Yuu to hang out or to do an activity with them. Everyone gets these lines because there are fans of every character that have spending power; it doesn't make sense to intentionally devote more lines to one while leaving the others starving for content when there are big spenders for all characters (which will vary widely anyway depending on the server too, so there are very few consistent "favorites"). Devoting time and energy to every character is what makes the most profit in the long run, as you risk losing the fans (and money) of "less popular" characters if they don't get new food too. It doesn’t matter that the high spenders for like… Azul stay because they’d still be losing the revenue coming in from Jack stans who dropped the game due to content drought.

I would say that what is and is not categorized as a "shipping bait" line depends a lot on other factors, the strongest of them all being individual perception. For example, if you ship yourself/your Yuusona with the character, you may be more likely to perceive any line spoken by your favorites as "more romantic" than other characters. This feeds into your preexisting expectations, and is therefore a form of confirmation bias. Meanwhile, if you ship two canon characters with one another, there are many more potential combinations so it's less likely that the particular ship you're into will get "bait". Additionally, some people are more liberal with what they perceive to be romantic or not. For example, Ace inviting you out to do something can be seen as both platonic or romantic, based on who is judging the line because there isn’t anything inherently romantic in spending time together. This is also the case in the main story or events; some players see Yuu giving Malleus the VDC/SDC ticket in book 5 as "a date" while others do not. This brings me to another point: character relationships within the main story and their personalities will also have a drastic impact on what is perceived as romantic or not. Rook, for example, speaks in a very flowery manner. Because of this, a majority of his lines could be seen as "bait". Characters that are gruffer (Jack) or "loner" types (Idia) would naturally have fewer inviting lines due to their characters. And again, with Ace, since he is presented as one of Yuu's closest friends in the main story, it's easy to perceive him as a platonic bestie when reading his lines since your friendship is already established.

Lastly, I think it's worthwhile to consider that there are also nuances that are lost in translation between JP and EN, which may alter which lines are seen as "bait" and which aren't. A really popular one I see floating around is Malleus's vignette level up line, which is translated in EN as "You aren’t afraid of me. But I’m starting to become afraid… of losing you.” Many fans perceive this as romantic and often joke that “Malleus missed the meeting about TWST not being a dating sim!” However, this line has a different context in JP which reads as more platonic.

The original Japanese line is お前は僕を恐れない。そんなお前を失うことが僕は恐ろしくなり始めている。This roughly has the same meaning, but the wording Malleus uses seems to specify that he is afraid of losing the Yuu that is not afraid of him. EN omits the そんな (son na) part, which would refer to a type or kind of person (as in, “son na hito”). In this case, Malleus is afraid of losing “the kind of Yuu that is not afraid of him”. So really, the original meaning of the line is that he is expressing a fear of what would happen if his true identity comes to light (as Yuu is the one person who doesn’t know), not that he is afraid of losing Yuu as a whole.

To summarize: it’s up to individual perception and, given enough time, every boy will get their fair share of fanservice for the player.