#i think the show's been on a decline after s2

[ginger-grimm]

MY THOUGHTS ON THE 4TH AND FINAL SEASON OF TUA: SPOILERS AHEAD

Sharing just cause I need to get it off my chest. I haven't shared opinions on TV shows in a while because most new stuff is just so uninteresting but I've watched this show since s1 first came out, almost. Opinions will be all over the place, don't feel like ordering them per episode.

Season was too short, everyone is well aware of it, but the storyline was so cluttered that it just didn't hit the same

Character motivation and characterization of everyone was all over the place in general. Why are we wasting a whole episode on a coupling no one was going to like? Why is the family split up for the majority of this final season?

I hate pretty much everyone's ending. Luther should have been given Viktor's storyline with Reggie to have his dilemma come full circle. I enjoyed him having a bit more comedic relief as opposed to his annoying attitude in the earlier seasons but there is so much he could have done besides being comedic fodder with Diego. Like, hello, he had a wife that went missing and I guess he never actually looked for her? Or he did and he gave up and got over it just like that? I wouldn't know since she was mentioned twice and only in a wistful tone as if she died. Put him with Reggie to resolve his daddy issues finally. Literally anything else. Diego spent the season in an unappy marriage with a shitty job, essentially chasing his glory days once again and he died with zero closure with his wife and the mother of his children. Allison's husband left her and she fell back into old patterns with her daughter and never really made up with her family and none of her issues are resolved. Klaus spent the season with a pointless villain who took up way too much screentime. Five took his brother's wife and was entirely out of character this season. Why is he nice guying after Lila when there is an apocalypse around the corner? Ben died having done literally nothing this season. None of his self conciousness was resolved, there was no real depth given to him and his storyline with Jennifer came and went. Viktor spent the entirety of the season with Reggie for some reason when really he should have been reconsiling with his family and mending his relationship with them. Lila died on the outs with her husband and in a weird "relationship" with her brother-in-law and also being entirely out-of-character. It's truly a disservice to everyone in the maincast.

I didn't mind the ending in general, I figured they would have to sacrifice themselves to fix everything they fucked up once and for all. I only question how Claire, Grace, Coco, and Carlos are alive even if they were "saved" by the trainstation. Their parents never existed and therefore they shouldn't either.

Wish they would have explored the trainstation more. It's a cool device but where did it come from and why now?

Gene and Jean were such wasted villains. Again, blaming it on the season being too short and too much focus on unnecessary storylines but the concept was there, they just squandered it.

What was the point of Reggie and Abigail? What is Abigail's real motivation? Is she evil or just ambivilent towards it all? I guess I enjoy that she wanted to fix her mistake but why wouldn't they give these two at least a flashback to show where they came from and how they got here?

The vibes this season in genral were off and I can't totally explain why despite the season being rushed and too short.

I honestly tuned out during the whole Five and Lila thing because, yeah, it was gross and it sucked and it ruined three great characters. I'm honestly moreso just questioning Lila as a mother. I get she was unhappy with Diego, I figured this would happen once they got married and became parents, but she genuinely seemed to love her kids. So when she gets lost in a subway for seven years she should be fighting like hell to get back to her kids instead of fucking her brother-in-law, right? Right?!

My favorite part was honestly the relationship that Klaus had with Claire. It just feels to me like everyone else was so far removed from her for some reason despite most of them being close enough to show up to Grace's birthday party?

The stakes were there but they essentially poofed away by the end of episode five.

I liked the ending to be honest, it was pretty serene and again, I think it makes sense for them to die to save the world, since they are the reason the world keeps ending. It was also nice to see the continuation of characters we saw appear throughout the series (minus Ray and the Sparrows).

Also enjoyed getting to see a young Umbrella Academy one last time.

All in all the season was not good, but I enjoyed getting to see the cast and characters again, even if they weren't entirely themselves. Also the ending wasn't horrible, so that's sometimes. I think it could have been made infinitely better if they had taken more time and if they had maybe tried to get up to ten episodes to mellow everything out and properly end everyone's storylines in a more satisfying way.

[ctinalk]

Is Crowley already the new Supreme Archangel?

A few oversights made millennia ago, and suddenly we have a demon archangel on our hands.

Caution: I came up with and wrote this in the last few hours so potentially crackpot theory ahead. Apologies if this has been proposed before, it’s not one I’ve seen. And I’ve seen A LOT.

So supposedly the miracle Aziraphale and Crowley performed together was something only the mightiest of archangels could have done. Everyone assumes it was Crowley because they think he was a high ranking Angel formerly. Or that it was the two of them together. Or that Jimbriel amplified it. But what if…

“There is always a supreme archangel”

Michael says this in S2E1 when talking with Uriel about who is in charge now that Gabriel was missing. Gabriel was removed from office in the trial we hear, he’s no longer Supreme Archangel. If so, Michael’s statement would imply that as soon as Gabriel’s removal happened, a new archangel already existed. Now obviously the Metatron is making a show of choosing Aziraphale as the new Supreme Archangel. But is that within his power to do so? Or is he suggesting working with Crowley for a different reason, possibly unknown even to him?

“I am the only first-order archangel in the room, or you know, the universe”

During the “2nd Armageddon-that-wasn’t” discussion, Gabriel says these words. As he says them, it cuts (ominously isn’t the right word here, pointedly maybe?) to Crowley leaning against the desk, and lingers there just a bit too long.

“How do you know it wasn’t me?”

Another clue to the powerful angel Crowley was. It was clearly said in a teasing manner throw Shax off. But much like the barrel of red herring in the intro, is it a red herring to something else?

“Can you send lightning bolts and get them to report back to you?”

The only other time we see someone calling lightning or using it is, you guessed it: Gabriel in S1 on the airbase to port in and out. I’ve read the theory that Angel!Crowley was the lord of lightning, which I’m not opposed to, but to me this is another link.

“Never change their passwords”

We have one HUGE instance of Heaven being sloppy in their record keeping (passwords), and lax in their security protocol (Crowley bopping about with Muriel). Whereas Hell is meticulous in their record keeping, as shown by the bills, admissions process, and S1 contract.

So what if: when Gabriel was stripped of the title, a new Supreme Archangel was automatically appointed. Except instead of someone else, because heaven neglected to double-check their logs after The Fall, Crowley was still on the books as next in line? This would absolutely play into “God playing games with the universe” and “just think what would have happened if we’d been at all competent” themes running through both seasons. It would also follow the theory that people noticed Aziraphale and Crowley were on the “wrong” side for much of the season. It would also explain a few continuity errors along the way (how did Crowley know Muriel’s rank? He knows it through the knowledge automatically given to the Supreme Archangel).

“Funny ol’ world, isn’t it?”

Caveats and potential weaknesses:

I have no idea how this fits into the fact that S3 will be the actual continuation the Neil and Terry planned, as to my knowledge S2 was essentially a “Neil’s chaotic angsty ineffable husbands fanfic”. But clearly S2 has to play well into the plan for S3. I also kind of hate my theory because Crowley specifically declined to be an angel again, and his hand has been forced too often already.

Now I am a staunch advocate of the body-swap theory, and I’m not sure how this would play into that. Does Metatron know? Does he think he has the power to appoint? Does he think the title went to Aziraphale because of the miracle? Does he try to get Crowley to come back with Aziraphale to exploit his power? Does he know about the body swap in S1 and if so, was he trying to trigger another one to get the right “soul” to heaven?

There are a few other things I haven’t figured out how to incorporate into this post yet. I’ll try to put them into coherent thoughts in the next few days, but thought I’d throw this to the wolves universe for the time being.

Thought 1: “How have your lot managed to stay in charge all this time?” “I’m not so sure we have.”

Thought 2: I need to do (another) rewatch before I nail this one down (such a sacrifice I tell you), but does Crowley have a visceral reaction like he does in S1 to being called “good” in the current, post Gabriel-removal timeset? Obv in Edinburgh/Job, but that’s in the past. He denies it, sure (with Jim), but he straight up flashes a smile and thanks Mrs. Sandwich when she says “You’re a good lad” (after the denial).

2.1: No one calls him “good” in present day except these two instances. Vast difference in the visceral reactions of season 1 and flashbacks.

Thought 3: Crowley is the only one who can trigger Jimbriel’s recall memory.

[nierly-amazing]

Nier Automata anime Episode 21 disjointed thoughts:

Spoilers, obviously

It had a few good moments but overall I was disappointed in this episode, more so than the last 2. I've been enjoying the anime, especially early s2 immensely but it's gone downhill so fast. It's extra annoying because most of the issues I have could have been fixed/avoided really easily.

The good bits:

THEY THANKED DEVOLA AND POPOLA! After all that time they finally thanked them! (Though I wish they had more small moments of them being dicks to them in past episodes).

FUCK YEAH JACKASS running the truck right into the room!

YEAH THE TWINS KICKED ASS TOO!

OH NO THEY KILLED JACKASS BUT that's probably how she wanted to go tbh

I do think the anime handled the whole fear thing being the machine children's downfall better than the game since they actually did some lead-up instead of Pascal dropping the info after they all died. So that's another good thing. Buuuut...

The not-so-good bits:

I knew immediately A2's idea to send the kids to the resistance camp was a stupidly terrible idea. Idk why they didn't try finding somewhere else to hide them but I expected them to simply lead hostile machines there rather than infect the camp with a ZOMBIE virus. Really? Zombies? Shambling groaning zombies? The whole reason logic viruses are so scary was how strong they make androids and how they'll just attack everything until they fall apart.

I get the narrative reasoning that Lily offering to shelter them ended up being everyone's downfall, but I ended up being more annoyed because of how dumb it was that A2 sent them there. Seems like an easy fix too, Lily could have called in end of last episode after the camp heard the explosions and offered to shelter them herself, then Pascal could have worried about leading enemies to them and Lily assured him they could handle it.

(me) ^

9S has basically no screen time anymore; we can't really feel his descent as well as we did in game. For the most part things are just happening to him rather than him actively doing things. Like, instead of dumping the 2E reveal in the first S2 episode they could have slowly fed it to us over the course of these episodes. They could have made it more fucked up by having the machine network torment 9S with bits of 2E hints or had the damage to his body scramble his mind in a way that he remembers flashes of his past lives/deaths. I think the game's definitely handled showing his mental decline in isolation while still being a sympathetic character better than the anime is doing.

(cymbal ism)

I sort of like how they put the flight unit in the god box and forced 9S to see it but I feel it would have been more impactful if they had a moment where he almost found it in the flooded city but passed it up because he was distracted and didn't realize it was 2B's unit. And oh look he passed out again.

No lunar tears no 2B memorial? Give him a chance to breathe and have some sort of positive or bittersweet interaction. In the game he still interacted with other androids and helped them but the only interaction we got in the anime was him slapping a flower from that one memorial quest guy's hand.

Pascal's 180 is still ehhh for me. The whole thing that made the Goliath fight in game so impactful was he was holding onto his pacifism till the very end until he had no other option. But in the anime he went berserk the moment there was even the possibility of danger. They didn't even know the hostile machines were a threat to the village when the pods told them. They had time to evacuate and it would have been a lot more fucked up (in a good way) if they were followed and picked off and then pascal went berserk when it was only the children left.

One child killed all the others in fear instead of it being a whole group fear effort. And then he bit pascal with a zombie virus? Pascal blew up when A2 wasn't even there??? And she barely even reacted when his arm shrapnel almost hit her. I get that they have to deal with the lack of player input choosing what to do but that could have easily been fixed with a scene cut right before A2 makes a choice.

They could have written it so it showed signs of them all trying to escape but were unable to. Maybe had one of them still alive because they failed to hit their core and explained what happened or had some sort of other visual hints as to what happened. maybe frantic carving on the walls or something idk.

But then again, patient 0 being the one 9S was extra suspicious about and almost hacked back in episode 5 is pretty interesting. Shows he was technically right all along about them being a threat, but for the wrong reasons. Still they probably could have merged the two ideas together to work better. I'd like to know if the machine network infected them on purpose or if it was their own fear that caused them to snap. If the latter then they could have also had the infected resistance react differently than being stereotypical zombies. They could have picked up on the fear and all went hysterical fighting and shooting each other because the virus overwhelmed them with fear and they were trying to put themselves and each other 'out of their misery'.

But then again again I don't really like how they made the disabled one the one that went crazy and ate everyone. Idk, they could have handled it better.

The whole resistance dying is definitely sadder than in game. They both work in their own ways so I can't really say one is better than the other. It hurt but I didn't hate it. I want to see what they have planned for killing everyone in this version before I make my final judgment.

I do hope they have a scene where 9S finds the village and feels bad because that was a nice bit in game to show he still cared about them despite going on his rampage with the other machines.

I really hope the tower episodes are good, I can forgive this fumbling if the next few episodes are bangers.

[erikiara80]

Hint in S3 that Joyce and Hopper were probably a couple in the original timeline

At the beginning of S3, Hopper asks Joyce out, but she declines. That evening, she watches an episode of the sitcom Cheers where a woman named Diane (like Hopper’s wife), tells her friend that a man, Frasier, asked her to marry him after he drank some Chianti. 

Screenshots credits to @chirpsythismorning​ Tagging you too @lilitblaukatz​ and @shippingfangirl013​ 

In the sitcom, Diane leaves Frasier at the altar. Joyce never shows up at the restaurant. And she and Hopper have been separated by everything, from evil scientists to time manipulation. 

But it’s the name Diane and the mention of Chianti, imo, the hint that Hopper and Joyce were together, and that they were a family at some point in the past.

Then there’s a flashback of Joyce and Bob. When I rewatched this scene, knowing what we know now about Vecna and timelines/time loop theories, I nearly spat out my tea.

Bob: They’re funny. I just wish they’d just get back together again already (Joyce: Me too)

He doesn’t say I hope they get together soon. They were a couple in the past. And Diane and Hopper had a child...

Also, in 3x02 Hop gets really drunk with Chianti. 

But there are many other hints.

Some of my favorite

This one is insane, lmao.

Joyce’s line in one of the S1 flashbacks: I don’t know who’s been raising you. Then the transition from Will’s drawing (the fireballs/cabbages) to a close up of Hopper’s eyes.

All the Will-Sara parallels in S1. But especially this one. It’s like Hopper is watching Will dying here.

This

Joyce calling Will, then Hopper. It’s interesting, because it really seems like she’s saying Will Hopper.

In 2x04, Will tells Joyce and Hopper that now he knows things that he never did before, and has memories that aren’t his memories. He’s talking about the possession, but if Jopper were together and then they were separated because of a time loop or brainwashing, this scene could be another way to hinting at the truth.

Also: My theory is that Sara is an altered memory and is actually Will or the combination of Will and El, Hopper’s kids, that the lab made him believe he lost. MKUltra was known for this kind of brainwashing.

Twin imagery. In every season. And always connected to Will, El, Joyce and Hopper. I think Jon is really Lonnie’s son-the reason he’s the only one who mentions him. And that Lonnie is the “Biff” of Stranger Things.

I also love that in S3 and S4 Hoppr and Joyce keep saying things like Let’s call our children, our kids are in danger... I mean, it makes sense, but IF Joyce and Hopper are Will and El’s parents, when we’ll rewatch the show, we’ll realize that the truth has always been there, from the beginning, like David said. And it’s beautiful.

Not a Willel twin post, but here some gifs of those moments: Joyce, Jim and their kids

The school scenes have so many hidden hints

Like the Wright Bros visual aid. So, Will and El are the (W)right bros. But we already know that they’re siblings. El lives with the Byers. Nothing new. So why these hidden hints if it’s something we already know? 

Another very interesting visual aid. Anton van Leeuwenhoek, the father of microbiology. One of his main discoveries: spermatozoa. But there’s more. The shirt of the kid behind Will. Maybe I’m delusional, but doesn’t it look like a DNA filament? 

So, the (W)right Bros, DNA filaments, the father of microbiology, Will and El, all in the same shot. 

More hints because, why not?

A hidden hint at Will and Hopper connection at the end of S3 and S4

And after another mention of Chianti in 4x09, Joyce and Hopper almost make out in Russia and then they’re twinning.

Also:

This post about MKUltra, Joyce and Terry 

Also this post  

This one about El and the blonde sisters, or this one

March 22. Will’s birthday. Joyce says it twice. This could be a reference to Henry, who’s possessing Will in S2. But maybe it’s also a hint that another kid was born on that day? El?

Twin imagery everywhere. I’m sure it’s also related to the Martin/Richard Brenner and Henry/Edward mystery, and maybe a hint at different timelines. But Hopper, Joyce and their kids have been front and center from episode one. So this is about them too. It’s all connected.

And speaking of Russia and making out, lol.

At the beginning of S4, Joyce opens the doll that Murray says could be pregnant with an explosive device. A mom with her kids, a boy and a girl, stare at her, confused. 

A few episodes later, Owens says this: 

‘It’s a fancy bomb. We used to store them in these silos, but we haven’t used this one in years. In fact, there is no bomb here at all. So we repurposed it to hold something much more powerful than a missile. You.’ Oh, after jokes about working out of a shed.

So, Joyce has a doll that could be pregnant with a bomb but isn’t. And then we learn that one of the silos that were used to store bombs has been repurposed for El, who’s not a bomb but something more powerful.

Here the post

And the doll is actually “pregnant” with the proof that Hopper is alive. 

Imo, the mention of pregnancy connects Joyce, Hopper and El. And the boy and the girl that stare at Joyce when she breaks the doll could mean that Joyce was pregnant with two powerful children.

[scarabaebutch]

Prompting Night: Jay Garrick deciding to have some quality bonding time with Bart, in whatever form that takes

A/N: this is the YJA-verse. Also technically within an YJA-preboot fusion AU I've been working on for a while but the details are unneeded since this is part of the very beginning of it. This is Jay's POV. I adore the Flashfam and have a particular soft spot for the Golden Agers.

Context: this is morning after the end of s2

---

7:06AM July 05, 2016

On his second cup of chamomile, Jay looks through Snapper Carr’s last reports and assessments on Bart’s academic skills again. Joan had already left early this morning for her microbiology lecture. Now it was just him and a still sleeping-in Bart in the house. That was a first he was pleased to see; the future-boy had a habit of being up as early as him, an insomniac old man who didn’t have many good dreams to look forward to.

Weak in essay writing and reading analysis, but strong in math, Mr. Carr’s notes began. Demonstrates excellent understanding of algebraic and geometric concepts. Has trouble showing his work and keeping on task, but that may be due to the subject material. Has not indicated extent of previous experience in the public school system. Will need additional guidance on school expectations prior to enrollment. Addendum: very neat cursive! Tell him to keep up the good handwriting. Did you teach him the Palmer method? 

Jay frowns. He'll need to submit these to Keystone North by next Friday. Bart will start eighth grade in the coming fall. The thought of Bart’s shocking youth in light of recent events makes Jay’s stomach clench. Jay had nearly pulled Bart off the Team after Wally’s death. Barry was hardly in a state to argue back. The thought of Bart being in the same danger—how did he ever tolerate that for Wally, Jay wonders. Then he remembers--the need for an outlet, for others like himself, for morality and self-discipline. Work from a young age was good for character and strengthening. Wally had blossomed on the Team, at least for a little while. Then college came and there was a…worrying decline. Frankly, leaving behind the suit was good for Wally’s mental state, whether or not he would ever return to the life. 

But even Wally, Jay thinks angrily, was not exposed to such twisting violence like Bart at the same age. Wally was fifteen going on sixteen when he was first on the Team. The missions, from what he recalled, were tricky but not shadowed by a looming war. Bart wasn’t fourteen and yet he was called one of the most important assets on the Team.

Sickening. Jay had half a mind to question the competency of the Justice League, but he had to use his influence carefully. The Justice League may take his advice in consideration but any harsh criticism could be easily dismissed as an out of touch veteran’s cantankerous mutterings. While Barry would certainly listen to him, that was no guarantee for change. 

Why did he let Bart stay, he wonders. He and Joan were his guardians. Then he remembers again, the hard look in Bart’s eyes. If Jay and Joan did not let him, he would do it his own way, no matter the consequences. Perhaps he should have adopted a firmer stance. But Bart was not a young child that could be easily grounded or restrained. They were guardians but not…parental figures. Not quite. Bart did not openly rebel but neither was he obligated to stay with them, exactly. He listened out of respect and politeness, at least at this point. And Jay rather Bart be monitored and have help nearby than run the risk of Bart running off and doing God-knows-what in bum nowhere.

The new (old) suit and codename was just another hurdle for Jay to get used to. 

Jay sighs, rubs one of his temples. He reads the end notes again. To say they felt vaguely incomplete and superficial was an understatement. But most academic assessments were mostly a glimpse of a student’s ability to take a presented exam nowadays. His own and Joan’s experiences in the American education system long told of that. Bart’s strength in mathematics was unsurprising—his preference of fixing and updating his goggles was evident from the start, alongside his family history. Not that it would have been a shame if Bart wasn’t so inclined; it simply made many things easier. Though, strangely, Barry seemed startled whenever Jay told him of Bart’s fascination with machines and frequencies. 

Jay did not pretend to himself about any previous or future heartfelt conversations with Bart about the alternate now-unwinded future he came from. He didn’t know anymore than anyone else in the family. There was no one left to miss him, Bart had simply said when asked about any future-family to possibly return to, after the Reach were defeated, after poor Wally (it should have been you, you old bastard--).

Another life where there was no one left to miss him. Another aspect that was unfortunately similar to himself (no matter how long ago--). Jay takes another gulp of chamomile and watches the golden hour slowly pass into proper morning. Well, he thinks to himself. It’ll help no one fussing over that now. Bart will tell his current family more when he feels safe. Stable. Jay and Joan were happy to provide that but damn if Jay’s natural curiosity wasn’t piqued. It itched at him, to poke and ask so who did take care of you before you left. Time around fellas of his own generation had luckily taught him patience in that regard. 

The most pressing mystery to Jay was the way Bart ran and moved, smooth, graceful, unceasing. No pauses for recalculations. Leaping, darting. It reminded him someone he thought dead for decades--

Peripherally, Jay teeks a closeby aura shifting brighter, awake. The stairs creak a picosecond after. He straightens up and closes the beige folder.

“Bart,” he calls up. “Breakfast is ready. Clean up and eat some eggs. They’re in the pan for you.”

“Be right there!” Bart calls right down. Ten seconds and a gust of air later, he appears next to Jay’s seat. “Can I have some waffles too?”

“In the freezer.”

“Thanks!”

Jay works through the rest of his chamomile by the time Bart settles across him with a plate piled with eggs and a tower of blueberry waffles. Jay pushes a jar of honey towards him.

“Are we going to train today, Jay?” Bart asks halfway into his eggs and waffles, his tone a tad too casual, the muscles in his throat twitching. Modulating the voice. Jay doesn’t poke. “Gramps mentioned he wanted to skip patrol today so maybe we could go running in Utah or the Andes. I haven’t navigated mountains in a while.”

An incomplete assessment, only scratching the surface. An old costume from someone else. When was the last time Bart had done anything not related to superheroing? Barry mostly called to take Bart patrolling or to pick him up from Team missions as of recent weeks. Before, Bart would take every opportunity to blame the invasion to avoid many non-hero excursions. No excuses anymore, Jay decides.

“I was thinking something closer to home, slugger,” Jay says, pushing the folder to the side. “Do you like chemistry?”

Bart blinks, perks up a bit. “Can’t say I’m super familiar with it like you. More of a mechanic—I mean, I like playing with computer parts or, uh—I’m good with numbers. Carr put that in my report card, right?”

Jay smiles. “He did. Chemistry and physics are my game. I still work as a part-time director. I go in tomorrow.”

“I can do physics.” A twist in Bart’s mouth before his face flattens into something neutral. “Is there going to be a test?”

“Just on how fast you can figure out which chemicals can cause an explosion,” Jay says idly.

“Oh, I think I can do that.” A grin blooms across Bart’s face, something reflecting genuine emotion.  

“My lab’s in the basement,” Jay says, pleased. “After breakfast, I’ll show you what happens when you put sodium in water and how to put out a hydrogen fire. You gotta watch out for such things in a lab. You don’t want to blow up by accident.”

“A hydrogen fire?” Bart repeats, swallowing a bit of syrup covered eggs. His yellow eyes glittered with interest. “I know about magnesium and methanol fires but not hydrogen.”

“Not too different, asides from the fact it’s almost invisible in daylight,” Jay says cheerily. “It happens. After you learn how to not blow up by accident, then I’ll teach you how to make explosions on purpose.”

“Do you know how to put together a gas stove? Or a Bunsen burner?” Bart asks excitedly, voice climbing up. “I know how to fix one but I don’t know about which model parts belong to which since it’s hell trying to find an intact manual even in this time—”

“Sure thing, buster. But we’ll start from the beginning,” Jay tells him. “One step at a time. Think you can keep up?”

“I won’t forget a single one, Jay,” Bart replies with a thick layer of gushing assurance and eagerness. “And don’t worry, I won’t burn down the house. I promise.”

Jay huffed out a short laugh. “Alright, kid. Come on, let’s get started.” 

---

[writingsofwesteros]

Now that s2 is over and we have more material, I've been thinking about Hightower between the waves. It's been a while since I've sent anything for that au. But now I kinda want to do a new version since it's been so long, and we have new show scenes and plots to work with..

I was thinking, what if it goes down a little differently: (tag name suggestion for a new au) chained beneath the waves.

Alicent doesn't marry them to flee the marriage to Viserys. She still marries him, and everything happens as in the show. But instead, what if, since Rhaenys has silently known about his bastards for some time now and just left it unsaid, she gets back at Corlys' infidelity. In the most unexpected way, having a secret affair with the Queen.

When he runs, he leaves her for 6 years to the Stepstones after Laenor and Laenas deaths. She doesn't just stay on Driftmark alone raising Baela as a ward. What if she attempts to remedy the fracture with her cousin following everything that happened and constantly takes Baela to King's Landing. Spending time with Viserys, so knowing about his health declining and witnessing Alicent and Otto basically rule in his place. She starts spending more time with Alicent. Eventually, they get more comfortable together. Having Baela and her children actually get to know each other, they are cousins after all, and Daemon will never. The branches need to be mended, and what better place to start than with the children. It goes fine for the first year or 2. Cordial. They get to know each other slowly, really know, not the facade worn in the face of court or rivals. Not the Queen or the Princess, not a Hightower and a Targaryen. Just Alicent and Rhaenys.

.... until about year 2. They've gotten too comfortable. After drinking far, far too much wine together one night, they sleep together. Alicent, of course, freaks out. She feels as if she sinned with Criston in s2. Imagine her panic with a woman.

The friendship gets strained after, her not even looking Rhaenys in the eye or speaking with her privately the next few days, even with the children around, busying herself fretting over Aegon and Baela playing far to freely with their young dragons together in the pits, Rhaenys staying aside with Aemond with his book and Helaena with her bugs, not pushing anything in front of them. But it's awkward. So she ends that visit early, taking Baela back to Driftmark the next morning, this time being the one to not look at Alicent as they leave the keep, feeling her eyes burning into her back.

Then it's some time before they see each other, Alicent positively freaking out over her sin. Eventually, she breaks though, because after months of silence, of no letters, of no visits, no courage to go to Driftmark herself, she can't stand it. She'd grown so used to not being alone again. It's eating at her. Any sin isn't worth this pit in her gut. She sends the letter with little expectations, but when she wakes early a few days later to the roar of Meleys flying outside the keep just before dawn, she's dressing and rushing down to the dragonpit faster than she'd willingly admit. But poor Ali hehe. When she's actually face to face with Rhaenys once more, hearing how her name falls from her lips, she is at a loss... blushing under the taller womans gaze... neither of them have stopped thinking about that night. How the other felt, tasted.. Moaned... she doesn't mean to. But before either of them are comprehending what's happening, she's on her in a flash. Alicent having to reach on her toes and pull the other woman down in order to kiss her. Nearly half a foot between them, at 5'5'' and 5'10'', she's so tall...

Thankfully, there are no dragonkeepers down there quite this early because the second she kisses her, Rhaenys confirms her suspicions that it wasn't regretted and holds back no longer, taking control immediately. Kissing her deeply, lifting her with ease, carrying her to the nearby column... months of pent-up feelings and frustrations for this woman coming to a head as she bunches Alicents dress up to her hips...

!!!!!

But why is Alicent cute when she's panicking about sin, oopsie ;)

Corlys being stupid and can be left in the cold for a bit longer.

Rhaenys does not waste any time as her two slender fingers are pushing in Alicent's sweet, creamy pussy as she clamps down instantly. "Good girl, there you." The Princess cooed as she watched the younger woman begin to fall apart.

She had not been able to watch the Queen's reactions on their first night together; it had been so rushed , which was why Rhaenys slowly removed her fingers just before Alicent found her release

[probablynot-john]

Oki doki, after the last season of lower decks just ended, I feel like this is a good time to point out some things.

If you think that they're " just friends" still, yeah, i get it. But in case you've forgot, here is a chronological list of everything they have done for eachother:

1. Rutherford spent the entire day looking for a job in a different department, when he already loves his job more than anything, just so he could spend time with her (S1:E2).

2. Rutherford shows her Badgy to help her train for a test (the moon walking scene is so cute). And then when Badgy tries to kill them, he admits "I was just trying to impress Tendi! She's so cute!" As he tries to sacrifices himself for her (S1:E6).

3. She is devastated when he went on the packled ship to save the crew. And when he had his implant ripped out she sat next to his bed every day and read to him every day until he woke up. And then he didn't remember her, she was on the verge if tears, but instead she just says "now we can be best friends all over again!" (S1:E10).

4. When his personality shifts by slightest degree, (he suddenly likes pears) she notices and tries to help. Violently. She was scared that he would forget her again. And rather than be mad that she ruined his date and chased him through a hallway, he gives her understanding, compassion and a hug! "Also don't date Barns" (S2:E1).

5. They built the same model ship over and over again together just so they could spend time alone together. He was so upset that he was "a year behind in being your friend" and that he couldn't remember what he did last year. To make him feel better, she got them a new model they could do together (S2:E6).

6. She thought he was dead and that it was her fault for asking him to step out of his comfort zone and try engineering on a different ship. She refuses to accept that he's gone and searches the other ship for him. He's completely fine when she finds him but she's still traumatized by the end of the episode (S2:E7).

7. They incorrectly suspect that Tendi is going to be transferred off the Cerritos so they spend the day together doing everything they loved on the ship, including the jefferies tube where they watched the stellar anomaly from S1:E2. Of course, she actually gets a promotion and he gives her a hug (S2:E10).

8. When he forgot her, he started saving 3 copies of every moment that he spent with her in his memory banks so he wouldn't forget. He spent so much time with her that it filled his brain and was causing malfunctions (S2:E10).

9. When they were grounded on earth for the trial they spent the entire time sightseeing together until they had to go do plot stuff (S3:E1).

10. Ruthorford loses control of his body to an "evil" version of himself and his first thought is "I need to contact Tendi, she'll know what to do!" And then he's so scared for her when his evil self goes to find her. This episode broke me(S3:E5).

11. Tendi is frustrated dealing with another Orian in starfleet. Honestly I didn't love Ruthorford in this episode, but "it was nice to meet another Orian, but I'd rather just spend time with you!" She's worried that he'll think less of her when he finds out she was a pirate. But he tells her that it's a part of her and he already likes her for who she is, and encourages her to embrace her heritage (S3:E6)

12. She's upset when he doesn't take her roll in a holosimulation seriously. But when she explains why she's upset, she admits out loud for the first time that she wants to be a captian. And he becomes her biggest supporter (S3:E8).

13. "It's gonna be weird not sleeping 5ft away from you, not having your muttering to lull me to sleep" she encourages him to speak up for himself so he can get the recognition he deserves so he can be promoted along side her. Also he's been declining promotions all year just so he can stay the same rank as her (S4:E2).

14. I don't want to spoil the rest of season 4, but oh my gosh, Ferangi Hearth Place. Everything about this episode is amazing. They have to pretend to be a married couple to go on a vacation."Why can't a symbol of love be gorgeous green eyes?" Or "I can't wait to walk around our shared room in nothing but a pair of your boxers completely topless. " Come on! This might be my favorite episode of the series. Not even just for the ships, Self Sealing Stembolts! *Chants Rom and Leeta to the theme of Bob The Builder* (S4:E6).

15. I don't want to spoil the season final, but oh my gosh, he was devastated, and so was I! (S4:E10).

Okay, I know Star Trek has a horrible history of ships falling apart. But romantic ships and actual ships. I would have been perfectly happy with them being best friends, but after rewatching the series, I would be quite disappointed if they didn't at least kiss.

So what do you think, are they still just friends?

[addictedtostorytelling]

Hello, I am asking about GSR because I love your thorough and thoughtful answers. I'm rewatching early CSI, and I know that the opinions of the producers towards GSR were not always favorable early on - they'd planned to can the whole relationship after S3, if I recall correctly, but WP & JF campaigned to keep them going. So I'm wondering, for early GSR, do you think that some of the claim that Grissom always loved Sara is retconned to fit the later plot? Or do you think that Grissom was written/acted to have been in love with her the whole series, and just keeping it under wraps, as the character later claims? Can we canonically read S1, S2 & S3 William Petersen acting a Grissom who doesn't know what to do with his feelings of love for Sara, or is it more likely that he was at the time meant to be acting as not sure how to handle her being so interested in him while his interest was not as strong? It seems like by S4 Butterflied that the writers & WP had decided Grissom was currently and had been in love with Sara. Would appreciate your thoughts!

hi, @nostromosigningoff!

thank you for your kind words! i'm glad you like my answers.

in response to your question:

up front, i will say i do not believe that the idea grissom expresses in episode 04x12 "butterflied" (and also at later points, such as in "immortality") that he has always been in love with sara represents a retcon.

for something to be a retcon, it has to contradict a previously established canonical plot point, thereby breaking the continuity.

for example, in s1, catherine is established to have a sister (who often helps to care for lindsey), but in later seasons, she is depicted as an only child; her sister being written out of existence is therefore a retcon.

so since it is never established that grissom definitely is not in love with sara pre-s4, then it can't be a retcon to have him say (or at least imply) in episode 04x12 "butterflied" that he has been in love with her the whole time he's known her.

it's not a rewriting of explicit history.

there is room within the narrative for what he says to be true and (within the universe of the show) to have always been true.

and, ultimately, i think the show makes it pretty clear that grissom does in fact have feelings for sara from the start, not only through explicit textual acknowledgment but also through certain acting choices billy makes, staging decisions, overarching themes, etc.

that said, the question of "was he (outside of the universe of the show) always intended to have been in love with her and only her from the beginning?" is, admittedly, a little more complicated, the answer running along the lines of "yes and no."

more discussion after the "keep reading," if you're interested.

__

first, some clarification: despite the fact that the showrunners eventually questioned the viability of gsr at the end of s3 (after grissom had declined sara's dinner invitation in episode 03x22 "play with fire"), they were not (in general) unfavorable to romantic gsr prior to that point.

while anthony zuiker had never intended for csi to be a show that focused primarily on the characters' home and love lives (and instead wanted to keep the drama firmly situated in their work), gsr had indeed been conceptualized of as a romance—and a mutual romance, at that—from day 1*.

* or technically "day 2," since jorja fox was only hired and the character of sara sidle only created after they had already filmed the pilot.

jorja fox was cast as sara with the understanding that her character would be "the love interest for gil grissom"—and note the wording she was supplied, which suggests that grissom has an interest in sara (and not that sara has unrequited feelings for him). she knew going into the job that her character was meant to match up with the show's leading man and be the object of his attraction.

to that end, many scenes throughout csi s1, s2, and s3 were written and/or directed and acted with the gsr romantic angle explicitly in mind—with the feelings evident on both sides.

multiple episodes of the early seasons heavily feature and develop the notion that grissom does have both a sexual attraction and an emotional connection to sara, beyond anyone else, and only really make sense within that context (e.g., episodes 01x03 "crate n' burial," 01x10 "sex, lies, & larvae," 01x23 "the strip strangler," 02x16 "primum non nocere," the entire grissom jealousy arc of early s3, etc.).

moreover, within these episodes, sara is not always shown as being the "pursuer." there are plenty of times when grissom expresses his attraction to, feelings for, and devotion to her unprompted, such as, for example, in episode 02x16 "primum non nocere."

this example is especially relevant to our question, as grissom's "since i met you" quip not only establishes his attraction and emotional connection to sara but also specifies that it has been a "from the moment he met her" deal. since when does he care about beauty? literally from the moment he met her and realized how beautiful she is.

the fact that he does so proves: he's not just a boss stuck in the awkward position of having a subordinate with unrequited feelings for him; he has feelings of his own, which he often expresses independent of her saying or doing anything to provoke him to.

while he is undeniably conflicted about his feelings and unsure of what to do about them, the fact is that he does have them.

and much of the tension between grissom and sara in the early seasons is based on that reality—both explicit narrative cues (such as catherine bringing the issue up to grissom in episode 02x15 "burden of proof," prodding him to deal with whatever lingering romantic feelings exist between him and sara so they can effectively work together) and billy's acting choices make that point clear.

the problem is that neither grissom nor sara can ever just fully walk away from their connection; that deep down, neither one of them wants to.

so.

outside of the universe of the show, the situation was that the showrunners had this ship that had been written as being romantic from the beginning, with mutual feelings on both sides, which they had then teased for so long and complicated in so many ways that after three seasons—which is the traditional point at which most tv "will they or won't they?" couples have their slow-burn arcs resolved—they were questioning if it was still viable (and particularly as the ship was polarizing and not universally popular with the fans).

after all, by this time, they had already had grissom and sara acknowledge the attraction head-on (see episodes 03x02 "the accused is entitled" and 03x22 "play with fire") and had had grissom turn down sara's direct romantic overture toward him, so it was time to either "drive or get out of the car," so to speak.

it was never the case that the showrunners (as a collective) had hated gsr or been against it as a romance from the get-go. it had also never been the case that they viewed it as a one-sided, "sara is in love with him but he is indifferent to her" thing, either.

whatever else may be true, grissom was consistently shown to have feelings for sara (which oftentimes complicated their interactions).

it's just that after the rigmarole of s3, there was some question of "now that we've gotten grissom and sara to this (fraught) point, should we bother to continue their romantic relationship? or is our audience burnt out on all this angst? do people actually still want to see them together?"

the writers were inclined to think no, especially because (as stated) gsr as a concept had always been divisive among fans.

however, both billy and jorja understood gsr to be so central to their characters that they advocated for the romantic storyline to continue (and eventually see some consummation).

over the course of the hiatus between s3 and s4, they lobbied to maintain the ship (or, in other words, to go with the original plan), and eventually, they persuaded the showrunners to stick with it, which meant that s4 began with romantic gsr "still on the table."

as talked about in this excerpt from the csi: crime scene investigation companion book,

because billy and jorja were successful in their campaign, there was essentially no gap in coverage with gsr being written as romantic throughout the series; that throughline persisted from episode 01x02 "cool change" on, even after the events of episode 03x22 "play with fire."

now.

all of the above said, a couple of things should be noted:

first, csi was always a show with multiple writers who, though they functioned as a team, were nevertheless not a monolith in terms of how they conceptualized of the show, its characters, their storylines, etc.

that so, mileage would often vary with csi storytelling depending on which particular writer was the primary one for a particular script or even longer story arc.

though gsr was conceived of as a romance from the beginning of the series, prior to them "going canon" with the big reveal at the end of s6, there were various writers who put their own spins on the ship. some of them applied little effort to developing the romance angle as main text on the show, adhering to the zuiker "focus on the criminalistics" mandate to the letter and leaving it mostly to billy and jorja to inflect their performances with attraction/interest "between the lines" as they would in the absence of more explicit treatment in their scripts. however, others would alternate based on their own whims or what the story of the day called for, sometimes teasing the romance explicitly and other times downplaying it and/or leaving it understated (especially in favor of other potential grissom ships, like kessom). still others consistently played to and developed the romance, pushing that overarching story along and establishing it as a series mainline (the most reliable captains of this last camp, for my money, being david rambo and sarah goldfinger).

there was also variation, even among those writers who did place gsr romance on the center stage, in terms of how they portrayed the dynamic, and particularly with regards to the question of grissom's characterization within it. some wrote more toward grissom being confused, others toward grissom being repressed and afraid, others toward him being manipulative of sara's feelings, others toward him being conscientious of power structures and professional considerations, etc. they also had multifarious interpretations of the exact nature of the romance itself, especially in terms of what grissom and sara's pre-vegas history might be, the type(s) of attraction at play and how that might manifest, what exactly the characters' hang-ups and motivations with regards to each other were, the level of intimacy between them, etc.

that being the case, we can't really speak of all of the writers and showrunners sharing a common attitude toward or understanding of gsr without oversimplifying the matter.

the truth is, views among the writing and production staff on the show toward gsr were as various as they were/are within the fandom.

carol mendelsohn, for example, has spoken of the fact that there was never a consensus in the writers' room about whether or not grissom and sara had slept together prior to sara moving to las vegas. she personally felt that they had, though other writers/producers felt they hadn't.

while there was a baseline understanding across the production that sara was meant to be grissom's love interest and that there was some kind of nebulous ~history between them, there were lots of different ways members of the production team interpreted and depicted that relationship beat (which is why the gsr storyline sometimes feels so inconsistent, even within the course of a single season).

another thing we have to keep in mind when talking about intentionality re: gsr romance is that while we as fans often talk of ships "always being endgame," more often than not, showrunners and writers don't operate with that kind of certainty in place.

with the exceptions of shows where the main romance is the be-all, end-all central plot point, with the whole story revolving around particular characters getting together/staying together/having an eventual happy ending, in most cases, most tv romances do not come with a guarantee of endgame status. writers prefer to keep their options open, writing toward what is most interesting and playing on chemistry wherever they may happen upon it.

they also sometimes are constrained by production realities (such as studio mandates, shifting actor availabilities, cast dynamics issues, etc.), which make it so they can't necessarily just "write what they want."

that so, while it is accurate to say that the writers always conceived of gsr as being mutually romantic in nature—as per the character notes jorja was given by the production team and the fact that when billy and jorja first met, they did so with the understanding that they were going to be scene partners/playing love interests going forward—it is not accurate to say that they always believed (much less knew for a fact) that grissom and sara would wind up together in the end/become the flagship of the show, spanning all fifteen seasons and a movie/get married and live happily ever after, and particularly not from the beginning of the show.

sara was meant to be grissom's primary love interest from the beginning, yes—and certainly their dynamic was written with mutual feelings/interest on both sides.

however, "primary" does no mean "only," and neither does it necessarily mean "forever."

that so, before the character was really solidified, particularly in early s1, the writers had occasionally fitted grissom into some interim romances and tried to present him more as the archetypal "cad about town" than would later be the case.

they also, as the show progressed, sometimes teased and explored other romantic options for him than sara, mainly with heather kessler, writing those interactions in such a way that (had they wanted to, and particularly had the audience reacted favorably) they could have slotted heather in as grissom's "primary romantic option" rather than sara instead.

so for as much as sara was created to be grissom's love interest from the beginning and for as much as gsr was written as a romance (with feelings on both sides) from sara's first appearance on the show, gsr was not necessarily intended from the beginning to be endgame.

in the writers' views, it was one option of many potential ones—a main option, a consistent option, an option they poured a lot of narrative time and attention into developing over the course of the show's first three seasons, yes, but an option all the same; one possible choice among many.

it wasn't until s4, after billy and jorja's intercession, that they really decided to make gsr endgame, knocking all other possibilities off the table.

that choice on their parts was, of course, cemented in episode 04x12 "butterflied."

so.

getting back to your original question of "was grissom always written/acted as being in love with sara from the get-go or was he originally meant (prior to s4) to have been more uncertain?" here are my thoughts:

as established, both billy petersen and jorja fox knew from the beginning that their characters were meant to have some kind of romantic connection, and the writers were definitely conceiving of gsr that way.

it is also true that gsr was not intended to be one-sided; grissom was written and depicted as being an active participant from the beginning, just as sara was.

but as also established, the particulars of the connection between grissom and sara were very much "not pinned down."

it wasn't as if the writers wrote up a "gsr dossier" and handed it over to billy and jorja and said, "here is the entire history your characters share together, complete with notes about how exactly they feel about each other and what beats and nuances you should play with them going forward. also, you should know that we intend for them to eventually get married and be together forever, so make sure to foreshadow that as much as you can."

to the contrary: both billy and jorja have often spoken of the fact that given the preponderance of "blanks" in their character histories and how little information the writers gave them to go on regarding grissom and sara's past dynamic, they often consulted with each other to come up with what we fans might refer to as "headcanons" about what they believed had happened between grissom and sara in san francisco, as well as to make sense of what was currently going on between them at any given point during the early seasons of the show. they relied on each other to "get on the same page" and to create internal cohesion in their performances.

it wasn't something that was just handed to them.

they were also in the same boat as members of the audience when it came to wondering what the future held for grissom and sara as a couple while the show was still running.

while they knew their characters were romantically entangled, they didn't know to what end.

at the beginning, there was so much ship teasing.

but would grissom and sara ever get together? if they did, would the relationship be long-term?

they didn't know.

they were just going along with the story as it was being written.

and, as discussed above, the writers themselves didn't have some huge, overarching plan to start out with. they knew from the onset that sara was an emotional touchstone for grissom and someone he was deeply connected and attracted to, but they weren't necessarily married to the idea that grissom and sara would themselves get married.

as stated, "endgame gsr" was one possibility among many, and, particularly at the show's onset, when there were no guarantees of how long csi would even be on the air, it was a long-shot, far-off-into-the-future, we'll-get-there-if-we-get-there possibility at that.

there were a lot of moving parts in play and nothing was set in stone.

so.

all of the above being the case, can we say definitively that every second billy played grissom on screen, his intention as an actor was to depict grissom as being deeply in love with sara? can we say that he always fully understood grissom's motivations and knew that grissom was scared of the depths of his feelings for sara (as opposed to just being unsure of how to deal with her intensity)?

no.

while it's a safe bet to say billy was always aware that grissom and sara had history and that there was a possibility that they would eventually become a couple from the start, we can't say that he always knew exactly what was going on with them. there might very well have been times when he felt like the attraction was more one-sided or when he doubted anything would ever transpire between them; even when he perhaps thought that the writers might take grissom down other roads for romance instead (i.e., pair grissom with heather).

that said, did he, as an actor, nevertheless always seem to keep those initial notes on grissom and sara's connection "in his back pocket" so that grissom's emotional attachment to sara and attraction to sara played a consistent role in his characterization?

yes.

and did he regularly depict grissom emotionally reacting to sara (even if the nature of his reactions was more ambiguous), such that we as viewers can easily believe grissom's later claims that he has always been in love with sara when we view them from an in-universe perspective?

absolutely.

the facts that billy and jorja did come up with their own takes on gsr and talk through that "secret history" together and that billy so often ad-libbed some of the most romantic gsr lines ("since i met you," anyone?) and that billy did imbue grissom's reactions to sara with such emotion all strongly suggest that even if he didn't know for sure—based on a "word of god" dictum from the showrunners—what the exact nature of grissom and sara's relationship was or that they would for sure end up together, he was playing romance between them, and it was a consistent, deliberate acting decision on his part.

see, for example, his comments about his ad-lib of grissom calling sara "honey" in episode 03x22 "play with fire": "[the producers] said, ‘he can’t call her honey.’ but that’s exactly what would happen. he’s afraid for her—he’s afraid for everybody—but it is specifically for sara. he knows the stress she’s been under with him. with her shock, she doesn’t even know until later on that he called her honey. he doesn’t know that he called her honey. only the audience knows."

he may not have been able to say for sure, "i know sara is the love of grissom's life and that he's going to marry her someday, so i'm gonna play him that way in every episode." but he knew enough to recognize the importance of that connection and to consistently depict it, leaving the door for development open.

he also knew enough (along with jorja) to advocate for the continuance of the gsr romantic storyline at a time when the showrunners were doubtful of it.

and because he did, grissom's later in-universe claims that he's been in love with sara the whole time are emminently believable, regardless of what kinds of questions were being asked behind the scenes regarding the viability of gsr from a production standpoint.

so that's the thing: when i look at grissom and sara's story, i see nothing in it that contradicts the idea that they've been madly and mutually in love with each other since 1998—and, in fact, i think their story only really makes sense when viewed through that lens.

even for as indecisive and tempestuous as grissom can be about his relationship with sara in the early seasons, never for one second do i doubt that he has feelings for her.

there is no episode i can look at and go, "yeah, at this point, gsr was completely off the table. they just added it in later."

if grissom was just wholesale uncomfortable with sara's romantic attentions on him and not sure how to deal with them, then episodes like 01x10 "sex, lies, & larvae," 01x16 "too tough to die," 01x23 "the strip strangler," 02x05 "scuba doobie-doo," 02x15 "burden of proof," 02x16 "primum non nocere," 02x23 "the hunger artist" (which, lest we forget, explicitly features grissom seeking out sara while a love song plays), 03x02 "the accused is entitled," 03x09 "blood lust," 03x22 "play with fire," 04x03 "homebodies," and 04x07 "invisible evidence" would never have happened—or at least wouldn't have played out the way that they in canon do.

and mind you: all of those episodes take place before episode 04x12 "butterflied" stakes its claims to the longevity, singularity, and depths of grissom's love for sara.

in those episodes, grissom's romantic feelings for sara are all made main text—acknowledged not only through william petersen's acting choices but in dialogue, staging, and even through the show's soundtrack.

they are deliberately shown.

and what's more: nowhere in the show is grissom depicted as having that same sort of consistent, almost unavoidable emotional connection with anyone else, either.

though of course fans can and do argue about what he may feel for heather or even other potential love interests besides sara, the fact is that just by sheer volume and duration, his connection with sara is his longest, most intense relationship on the show by far.

even if one does believe he may at some point have feelings for heather (which, of course, i don't), it would always be a situation of "and" not "instead of" where sara in concerned.

his love for sara is a thread that runs through the whole tapestry of the show.

it's never the case that he stops having feelings for her in favor of having feelings for anyone else. he also never really moves on from her, even when he declines her romantic overtures at the end of s3.

so at the end of the day, though neither the showrunners nor the writers nor the actors may have known with surety from the beginning that sara would end up being grissom's one true love and the only woman he ever had any real feelings for, and while at various points during the production there definitely were other options they considered, what the show ends up actually depicting (all doylist intentions aside) is that sara is the object of grissom's heart from day 1.

it's not a retcon for the writers or grissom himself to say he has always been in love with sara, because there is consistent evidence of it, both internal and external to the show, from the start.

it's not something that was shoehorned in or decided upon long after the fact.

the option was there from the day jorja fox signed her contract.

and it was given consistent enough narrative attention, both by the writers and by the actors, that by the time it is explicitly stated, it doesn't at all "come out of nowhere" or contradict anything already established in the show. rather, it confirms what has already been implied for a very long time prior.

so tl;dr? while the showrunners may not necessarily have been sold on a gsr endgame from the start, that also isn't to say that they were against it, either, or that eventually "going there" went against their original intentions.

gsr had always been on the table, and billy, for his part, consummate knower of his character that he is, was always, from the beginning aware of that possibility and depicted grissom accordingly, leaving that door for a gsr romance open, so that now it seems very clear looking back that the love was there all along.

thanks for the question! please feel welcome to send another any time.

[gigigle]

I'm bored so these are changes I would make to stranger things.

S1, honestly nothing, s1 is probably my favorite season. The most I would do is make Steve a more apparent a hole. And keep mlvn platonic.

S2, I would've leaned into the difference of the party more and their struggles. Also I wouldn't have had El live in the cabin. I would've preferred if she was hidden but not from the party and we get to see her adjust to not living in the lab anymore. I would've also preferred to see stancy be platonic and see Steve grow and try to learn to be friends with Nancy and Jonathan. Also more pushback against Steve from party members. Like he used make fun of Mike and Dustin or Smth and they don't like him also show his decline from popularity too.

I also would've leaned in to Lucas and Billy's story where it actually talks about racism and the micro aggressions Lucas faces living in a small town like Hawkins. I also would've had a storyline about the ableism Dustin receives andaybe that could set up the Steve and Dustin friendship where Steve defends him from Carol and tommy. Also have Dustin give Steve pushback from him messing with Dustin before. To actually give Steve more depth and development.

Also I think I would have gotten rid of the possession storyline and just had will dealing with the trauma and aftermath of the upside down and have a Lonnie storyline in there too. Where maybe he's trying to get custody so he can get some of the money that Joyce gets paid by the government. And we see more in depth how awful Lonnie really was to Jonathan and will. Also show Joyce's struggles being branded the town hysterical women and trying to fight her abusive ex husband while also trying to take care of will. It would also show Jonathans neglect/how he's kinda the glass child and how he takes more shift to help pay for stuff. I would still have jancy get together though at some point.

And mike I think show how his family is distant but not really go into it till s3. So s2 is just developing his relationships with El and will.

Keep max the same. And still have El run away to kalis grew.

For Nancy I think I wouldve had her still looking in to more of the stuff about barb and the ud and the government but I think I would get rid of Murray because I think In my changes he doesn't fit.

Also show hopper trying to figure out being a dad again.

S3, i would get rid of the mind flayer and all the Russian stuff. I would've kept vecna but slowly introduced him. Started developing jopper more and show El navigating real normal life and maybe have her go to school. And keep max and El.

Get rid of the mall and keep Robin but have her and Steve meet because she is friends with Nancy or Jonathan so that she is connected more. Or have her have friendships with them after she becomes better friends with Steve.

I would give Mike a storyline where he doesn't feel connected to his family at all. Like you show all the other family dynamics and introduce Erica to show how much more connected the other party's family are. Like have Mike jealous of will and Jonathan and Lucas and Erica because of how close they are but him and Nancy barely talk. It would've been interesting and added depth to his character and show his I love you problem.

I also would've shown more of Max's abusive home life and show how it affects her relationship with Lucas. Like max exhibits toxic behavior to Lucas because shes angry about billy and Neil and she lashes out at Lucas. It could've also had scene where Lucas establishes boundaries and tells her he's doesn't like how she treats him. And have her learn that it's wrong and apologize to Lucas.

I also think for Lucas we could have him join basketball this season and see the party reactions to it. I feel like it would've shown more depth in their friendships.

I think I would've pushed El getting kidnapped by the government this season and replace the hopper fake death with els kidnapping. And have billy be the first vecna victim as another cliff hanger.

I would've kept jancy the same and their argument about classism/poverty vs misogyny in the workplace. Because that argument was really good because they were both right and wrong.

Have El develop familial relationships with Joyce and will and Jonathan because maybe she lives with them for school or something.

I also would show will struggles with being gay and the ud more

S4, instead of Eddie blamed have it be the party because Neil tells the police it was them cause of DND. And have the season be the party on the run and hiding out in town to try and figure out what's going on. Also show max struggling with Billy's death and the mystery.

Have hopper and Joyce be the ones who go to rescue El from the lab. Have Steve Nancy Jonathan and Robin be the ones dealing with Hawkins.

I'm done now. But these are just off the top of my head and aren't explained the best.

[luvyeni]

Honestly, most shows are. Like I think of PLL were they changed the whole A reveal just because fans guessed who it was, and they didn't like that, so everything just didn't make sense(and if you read the books it made even less sense). It either goes downhill or gets so confusing people can't keep up, like I didn't even bother with Riverdale since everyone I know mostly dropped the show since it was too confusing. I feel like too, some companies are like oh people like this, and keep making more since it's a cash cow, which you can really tell. Like soap operas and all, like General Hospital is going onto season 62, there are 15,511 episodes, you can not tell me that we needed that many. Also The Vampire Diaries comes to mind, since the last two seasons didn't even feel like Vampire Diaries, they felt like they should be some spinoff show. Yet, sometimes shows do the opposite and it's surprising. Like I think of The 100, they had like season 1 and 2 were good, season 3 sucked, but they got back on it and season 4 to 7 were good, except the finale.

Season 3 is the best, but it does get a bit confusing with the later seasons, especially when basically everyone leaves. I honestly would have loved to know what was initially planned, since it probably would have been way better than what we got. Yet, even though it goes downhill, it's not the worse show, since I know some shows basically become unwatchable due to decline.

dont get me start on pll , I will never forgive them for making that show that long simply because of that , because you could tell after they def were making things up as they went along. and i couldn't even remember vd past s3 and i only watched up to s2 of legacies.

[yjwhatif]

so i realized the back half of s4 is the second time in the show that Bart has Done Some Shit and we haven't seen the repercussions/consequences. he lies through his teeth for over a month back in s2 about being a "tourist" and when the truth comes out that he WAS lying (and is from the apocalypse) it's never directly addressed on screen. now he's lied for over three months and disappeared for over two weeks in s4 and we don't see how that effects him or his life or the people in it AT ALL.

Yeah… For me, while i still love s4, i do think its biggest fault is in it's lack of outsiders presence - especially once we get to the bart plot - barts connection is with them - not any of the people he's grouped up with once free from lor (bar artemis maybe). we need to see the outsiders/those closest to him to experience the consequences that come from him deceiving and leaving them… it was obviously disappointing to not see them play much of a part through gars decline but i've talked about my perspective on why that is before (if i find that original post I’ll link it here) and when rewatching the series it didn't actually bother me as much… at this point, there remains only two moment where i really wish theyd have been seen or at least mentioned - the first is when Child is causing chaos around the world and we’re told every outsider, along with everyone else, has been called upon to help and yet we only see tara and cassie of the actual outsiders there… would it really have been too much to ask for a few more to be scattered in the background of the different disasters? There’s plenty of them at this point. The other is within the bart plot… it straight up bugs me that there is never any mention of the outsiders - or even just cassie, as their leader - being informed about the facts gathered during dicks investigation, especially after zatanna specifically mentions that bart and conner are both outsiders… if they are outsiders, then the outsiders should be involved in finding them - that has always been the way in which the teams think when something happens to one of their own… except in s4 apparently! Obviously, the show only has a certain amount of time and budget to tell the story it wants and they wanted the focus to be on the ogs - that's fair enough - but it really needed something… even if it was just a quick mention from artemis, or someone, that there were indeed outsiders out looking for bart - something similar to how they revealed joans funeral in s3 - a few small comments that highlight there's still more going on outside of the events being shown on screen.

It’s great getting Bart content (we always need more of it!) but with the decisions he chose to make with the legion and this show being rather good at showing there’s consequences to actions - there really should have been some repercussions at least hinted at by the end of the season. I feel like the closest we get is Dinah saying Jay’s been struggling - but because we never get to see that struggle and it’s never directly linked to Bart - it isn’t enough to count as a repercussion.* I’d have even settled for something to have been said in the comics about it, like him being benched or being on some kind of probation or him just taking some time off - but that also hasn’t happened. At this point, I guess we’ll never know, which is a shame because like I said before, this show is usually very good at including consequences… y’know, unless your name is Bart Allen that is. I am so desperate to see Bart get called out on his keeping secrets, or to see him actually struggle with things - mainly because it’s a side we really haven’t experienced yet - even after everything he’s been through. I wanna see Bart out of his depths, stuck in a situation he can’t run from, or heal his way out of, or be a goofball through. I wanna see the other sides of him. We’ve had three seasons with him - it’s time to finally delve deeper.

*Until told otherwise, my headcanon is that Jay loses some of his trust in Bart and winds up putting him on curfew and becomes a bit more restrictive of what he allows until he feels he can trust him again.

And those are my thoughts - basically, let’s start seeing the outsiders dealing with consequences the same way the OG have being since s1. Thanks for your message Anon!

LB

[belovedfinch]

I'm still in shock that 1899 is cancelled, I just don't understand why they would make it in the first place knowing it has a planned out 3 season story?! It did so well all over the world and was in the top 10 for a long time.

People on Twitter are like "well it was boring" , "I didn't understand it", and "it was slow to start". AGAIN it is a 3 season story, it's not supposed to make sense, that's part of the mystery. You really be reading a book and figure everything out in the first 8 chapters?

As someone who found dark late (after season 2 was released) I felt lucky because I had so many questions after S1 and I didn't have to wait for S2 to get those answers. But isn't that also part of the fun? finding little easter eggs and rewatching it and noticing things you didn't notice the first time. Which we have been doing on here for 1899 and talking about how excited we were for S2.

This series has a start and an end, fully fleshed out story in three seasons. 1899 shows so many cultures, it really makes you think about society because these people don't even understand each other for gods sake! and yet they still have relationships and conversations.

Netflix use to be about making stuff normal tv channels wouldn't, it took risks on peoples ideas and we got some really amazing shows out of it, but Netflix has been on a steep decline. It's not what it use to be which is quiet sad, there are so many amazing tv shows that they have cancelled after one season and I personally don't think I'll be staying around any longer, you put prices up but choose to cancel majority of your shows after 1 season?

[rockclimbinglover12107]

My fave Tvd characters ( or ones that I don’t actively want to murder )

Please bear in mind that this is just my opinion and you can like whoever you want. Also this list only includes characters from TVD and one from TO.

1. Katherine Pierce

I absolutely loved Katherine, to the point where I lost interest in the show soon after her death (although this was more due to decline in quality). I liked her in s2 for her power and iconic personality / quotes, as well as her complex, interesting history. As the seasons progressed, I also felt sorry for her, especially when they screwed her over at the end of her life in s5, just to bring her back and ruin her again in s8. I understand that her character had flaws but I am still mad that she went to hell but flipping Klaus Mikaelson didn’t. Another thing that made me enjoy her was the brilliant acting from Nina Dobrev, who shone in the role of a badass yet glamorous villain and brought real personality to the part, despite her lazy and inconsistent storyline. She was a funny and iconic character, who was screwed over by everyone she ever met including her own father, all of her boyfriends and her doppelgänger and suffered to much for a 17 year old girl.

2. Rebekah Mikaelson

Rebekah always intrigued me, even though I found her annoying on my first watch of TVD, mainly due to her constant misguided loyalty to her brother. However, I came to realise that she was a victim of Klaus, just like everyone else, and that he was abusive and controlling towards her. After realising this, I was able to fully appreciate her character and the way she only wanted love and roasted the MF gang on many occasions. I especially enjoyed her sisterly relationships with Freya and Hayley and wished that she had become friends with Katherine, because that pairing would have been legendary.

3. Freya Mikaelson

She was the only reason that I managed to make it through any of TO and it was refreshing to see another powerful main witch aside from Bonnie. As I mentioned above, I loved her relationship with Freya and Hayley and liked her protectiveness. However, her loyalty to her family sometimes annoyed me, as I couldn’t stand her brothers. She deserved better than the Mikaelson men and Hope, who, from what I’ve seen, is the most annoying, whiny, overpowered teenage girl in the TVDU.

4. Matt Donovan

Everybody hates on this guy and I don’t understand why. He was just a normal teen with an absent father and an irresponsible, mostly absent mother, whose sister died when he was young, along with half of his friends. In my opinion, his dedication to staying a human and sticking to his morals was admirable and his relationships with many of the girls were cute and non-toxic. People only hate him because he isn’t some angsty, rebel heartthrob and happened to dislike many of the fan favourites.

5. Vicki Donovan

The writers really looked at this girl in s1 and were like “Let’s make her life as miserable as possible”. She grew up with terrible parents, had a drug problem, dated pre-redemption arc Tyler Lockwood, became a ripper and then died at the hands of a 100 year old monster. The worst part is that people dislike her because they found her issues “annoying” but then praise characters like Stefan, Klaus and Damon who all had serious mental illness as well.

6. Lexi Branson

She was a friendly and supportive person who died too soon and should have stayed on the show longer. Her attitude towards Katherine/Elena could have been interesting and her hatred of Damon was hilarious.

7. Elena Gilbert

Although I could hardly stand her in s4&6 and especially s5, I thought that she was an interesting character in the early seasons with a somewhat nice personality and a sense of nobility that many characters lacked. She doesn’t deserve all of the hate that she gets but I definitely understand why people don’t like her. I also think she should have been more sympathetic of Katherine and Rebekah, but I think that her feelings and opinions were always heavily manipulated by the Salvatore brothers.

8. Kai Parker

He brought some much needed excitement and comic relief to the very dreary s6 and he treated Katherien with the respect that she deserved. However, he suffered from the fact that he was a newcomer in the time when the show’s spirit started to die.

9. Jenna Sommers

This poor woman was left to look after two traumatised teenagers, after her only sister died, and put up with the constant drama of Mystic Falls. She was one of the few innocent people on this entire show and she deserved a happy ending, instead of being killed by a man she had never done anything to.

10. Hayley Marshall

She was interesting and funny, although she was sometimes annoying, and she put Caroline in her place when she was being particularly annoying. Every time she defied Klaus or Elijah I was like GO GET IT GIRL! However she, like Katherine, had a terrible taste in men, seeing as she went after the Mikaelson brothers.

These are all of my fave charcters on TVD. Hope you like at least one of these people.

[fulltimecatwitch]

i am finally on winter break besties and as promised i am back with ✨️resistance posts✨️

so after thinking about it for a while i wanted to write some headcanons about what i think could have happened with Kaz after s2 of Resistance ( aka a fictional s3 )

-After rescuing Tam, team Fireball and the Colossuss finally manage to rendevouz with the Resistance on Ajan Kloss

- Poe is thrilled to see that Kaz is alive ( he will deny it if you ask, but he was worried sick about what had happened to the kid after he heard the Colossus was on the run)

- Kaz finally joins the resistance as a pilot, but since they are laying low he mostly deals with transporting things or guarding ships

-he is ocasionally sent as a spy to gather some intelligence and what not because despite what everyone might think he is actually competent at it

- speaking of intelligence, shortly after they arrive he learns that Commander Pyre actually survived all the havoc and so Kaz makes it his personal mission to find him and take him down.

- He tries to contact his parents but to no avail, Leia tells him that ever since the destruction of Hosnian Prime no one has heard of them ( apart from that one transmission in S2 that cinfirms they are alive )

- Kaz doesn't take this well, but Leia tells him since they are valuable targets they are probably laying low somewhere and assures him that she will help him find them

- Tam struggles to fit in at the beginning since everyone knows she used to be in the FO but with encouragement from Kaz and Torra she slowly begins to meet new people and make new friends

- Leia introduces Tam to Finn and the two inmediately become close, they bond over their past with the FO and Tam even teaches Finn to fly

- Kaz and Rey also become really good friends after she shows him how to fly the Falcon. They talk a lot about flying and ships, sometimes Kaz also asks her about her strange jedi powers because he still can't believe it is real

- Because Rey has only seen a few planets, she will sometimes ask Kaz to tell her everything about every planet he's ever been in, he willingly does so because he has travelled a lot and surprises himself by talking about Hosnian Prime, it feels surprinsingly good and healing to do so ( ugh i might actually write a snippet of this conversation later because it is too good to pass )

- Anyway, time goes on and suddenly almost a year has gone by, Rey has gone on her mission with Poe and Finn and suddenly everyone is on their way to Exegol

- i already wrote a little about Kaz at Exegol so let's keep it short and just say he kicks some imperial ass there

- After Exegol, Poe asks him to join Black Squadron to help him find and take down the remainings of the first order and Kaz accepts eagerly thinking this might be his opportunity to get Pyre (he wanted to get Hux as well but Poe tells him he doesn't need to worry about that anymore)

- He finally manages to contact his parents and as Leia said they were hiding on a farming planet

-they urge him to come back with them to the Core Worlds so they can start again,but Kaz feels that he still has a resposability with the resistance after the destruction of Hosnian Prime so he declines but tells them he will visit when he has time

- he can tell his parents disapprove, but it's not like he need their permission anymore

- Flying with Black Squadron is both thrilling and hard. He finally gets to spent a lot of time flying as he always wanted but they get the most dangerous missions, looking for some of the most dangerous people of the galaxy so Kaz has to remain sharp all the time ( but we already know he is a hell of a pilot tough)

- A lot of times the missions don't go to plan, hard decissions need to be taken, people get hurt and its hard for him to see how much control the First Order still holds over the galaxy and all the atrocities they commited on smaller planets

- Overall, cleaning up the mess of war is almost as bad as the war itself but Kaz still feels that he owes it to everyone he couldn't save to take down as much of the first order as he can

- After months of missions, he finally gets a promising lead on the location of Commander Pyre ...

that is it for now :) i'll make a part 2 in the next few days

[timetragic]

Morgana felt underdeveloped after S2

After Season 2, Morgana's personality didn't quite change. By Season 4, she became a bland villain who had so much potential. Someone here recently shared a Mergana amv of bad blood, and it honestly gave me so many ideas and chills for what could've happened in the story.

I wish Morgana knew about Merlin's powers in season 3. Morgana and Merlin already disliked each other, but having both of them know each other's secret would've been interesting. In this season, Morgana still isn't powerful enough to make a mark. She is still learning from Morgause and relies on regular weapons. Morgana's power this season comes from her status of being Uther's Ward/Daughter. Seeing her manipulating Uther, so he'll execute Merlin or just something bad, could've been an interesting plot for an episode or made existing ones like "The Castle of Fyrien" even more interesting Maybe at the end of this season, Merlin ends up capturing Morgana.

-----------

Y'know how the title screen changes from s3 - s4. Instead of, "the destiny of a great kingdom rests on the shoulders of a young boy..." it changes to, "the destiny of a great kingdom rests on the shoulders of a young man.."

Well, I don't see it.

One of my main critiques of Merlin is how he doesn't learn from his mistake with Morgana. He made Morgana feel alone, which prompted her to look into other places for help, leading to Morgause. He made the exact mistake with Mordred in Season 5, which was very hard to watch, especially episode 5 of that season.

He keeps making the same mistakes. He still isn't bold enough with his magic. An idea that would be interesting to explore is what if Gaius died in the S3 finale. Merlin already shows how he knows a lot about medicine, especially in S5, so why not roll with it. If Gaius dies, Merlin should take Gaius' place as a court physician. So many more plot points and stakes can be brought up as a result. It also shows Merlin's maturity as he grows.

Even though Gaius would be dead in this universe, I still wouldn't want Merlin to feel alone with his magic. I deeply respect Lancelot, and I'm a little disappointed how he was mainly used as a plot point for Gwen's and Arthur's relationship. The interactions he has with Merlin in the S4 premier are so on point. They should've used that a little more. I wish Lancelot was there for Merlin and that he didn't die.

-------

Maybe in S4, Merlin tries to help Morgana and reason with her to show her how Arthur will develop a better and safer world for all people, including those of magic.

Morgana rejects this idea but does listen after a while or so Merlin thinks. She ends up escaping somewhere along S4 and ends up in a Druid camp. The druids will start to help her clear her mind more, and she is starting to become more of the Morgana we once knew. She still distrusts Arthur and Merlin, but to a lesser extent, and she doesn't really hate Gwen really anymore.

Whilst in the Druid camp, she started hearing about this Druid boy who sought more power to make a difference. Later on, this same boy would find Morgana. And of course, that boy is Mordred.

Although it isn't as apparent as Morgause, Mordred, in a way, wants Arthur gone and replaced with someone who knows better. Someone who will make a change on the kingdom. Mordred pities Merlin for believing that Arthur will make peace. Mordred's plan is to become a knight of Camelot and have Arthur trust him. When the time is right, Mordred would assume power of the throne, and he will start taking charge of Camelot. As soon as the new magic policies were put in place, there would be terrible disasters since it would be difficult to manage the amount of new magic that would surround the land. However, Mordred doesn't know that could happen, and he asks Morgana for his help. Morgana, after considering, ends up declining his offer.

We don't get to see Morgana after a while and instead get to see some Mordred and Merlin interactions. This time, Merlin would heavily distrust Mordred at first, but then Mordred grew onto him, and he found himself trusting Mordred.

In the Series Finale, Mordred innacts his plan with a lot of help from other Sorcerer's he already recruited plus an entire Kingdom's army. Aithusa would also appear in this universe. However, she protects Mordred instead of Morgana. Morgana sees a vision of what is going to happen, and she sees the cruelty of people being killed. She goes back to Camelot to do something. She is very much undercover, and she tries to perform a spell that can help Camelot. Unfortunately, said spell helps them at first, but backfires later on. That spell is one of the reasons that would lead to Arthur's inevitable death. As more and more people are being hurt, Merlin has no choice but to sue his powers to protect them. Arthur is undoubtedly upset at first, similarly to how he was in the original last episode, but he forgives Merlin in the end, and one of his last wishes as King is for Morgana to lead the way for people with magic to be accepted in Camelot.

Mordred would be killed, and the rest of his army would be defeated. Morgana would take the role of Queen, and she would be the one who would end up uniting Albion. Merlin would be Court Sorcerer and take an apprentice he would train to be a physician.

-l

I wrote this up as soon as I thought of it, so I'm sorry if a lot of this doesn't make sense, lol. Who knows, I might change my mind tomorrow and decide that this is actually the worst idea to ever be thought of.

TL:DR - I made up how I would write the story after s2 if I actually had good writing skills. Or someone else can write this, idk.

[queer-as-used-by-tolkien]

Storyline Study: Season 3

Prev (S2) | Next (PoF)

I've already done a study on S3, but it's more of a brief overview and there are also several ways to see the ending.

See, the last episode of Season 3, One Path Ends, was not originally planned. It was extra, because there was some time to fill between the original end of S3 and the release of PoF. My original S3 study includes One Path Ends (the real-Lazarus, Exemplar Kerida/Livia stuff, and the return to Orr) and gives it extreme narrative weight, but I won't be doing that here because it doesn't have extreme narrative weight.

While I do think the events happened, I don't think it has any bearing on the narrative arc, as Its supposed developments have no impact on the future story. I'm going pretend the narrative arc ended with the Commander having just faced Balthazar in the volcano. I'll also be ignoring the Knight of the Thorn side-quest.

Now: the story in S3 is about the aftermath of HoT as experienced by the Commander. It's not about the Pact or the sylvari, it's about the Commander.

Trahearne's death was a highly traumatic event. Not only was Trahearne a close friend and ally, but the Commander themself was forced to kill him.

And afterwards there was no support. None of the five allies who were present gave the Commander a shoulder to cry on. Not even Caithe.

Support or the lack of it is a huge marker of the development of trauma after a traumatic event. The Commander has always had support in the past. (This began eroding in HoT as a result of the Commander's actions at the end of S2, and in fact, Trahearne’s death is also consequence of these actions. It's also a result of the Commander continuing to reject the story's thematic Truth.)

In S3, this pattern of lack of support continued; a memorial was held for Eir, but nothing was done for Trahearne. General Almorra showed up in Rata Novus with an update concerning the role of Marshal and Trahearne’s legacy among the members of the Pact.

The Commander further stepped away from the Truth at this moment by resigning from the Pact. This action, I believe, was motivated by a mixture of grief and anger towards the Pact who have been blaming Trahearne for the disaster in Maguuma. That's understandable. But sticking to the Truth requires sacrifice, and the Commander wasn't willing to make it.

At this point in the storyline, the main characters that the Commander has been adventuring with through S2 and HoT - all the potential members of Dragon’s Watch - are the graph that charts the Commander’s growth (or decline) regarding the thematic Truth and Lie. In Guild Wars 2, the number of allies the Commander has directly correlates to how good they is at following the Truth (which is enumerated in the words of the Pale Tree: with unity, many impossible things may be achieved).

With the Commander’s resignation from the Pact, the number of allies they has plummets sharply, leaving them with only the potential members of Dragon’s Watch. Now and for all of S3 and into PoF, every ally counts.

The Commander’s next step, after resigning from the Pact, is to put Dragon’s Watch together, and they manages to recruit Rytlock, Rox, Taimi, and Marjory. Canach is around and involved with the conflict, so he also counts despite not being recruitable yet due to his obligations to Anise.

However, Rox leaves to find Braham, and as of episode 2, Rising Flames, Rytlock is taken off to the Black Citadel indefinitely. These are reminders that the Commander's current lifestyle isn't accomdating the Truth and that they should work on that.

Now, with the conclusion of Rising Flames, the Commander finally receives the payoff from their sacrifice of and departure from the Truth in S2 - Glint’s egg is hatching.

At the same time, the minions of Primordus attack. The Commander defends the egg with ruthlessness and zeal, even going so far as to threaten Lazarus’ life if he goes near the egg. However, he's a mursaat and anyway, the Commander needs his assistance to fight off the Destroyers. It’s simply not a credible threat. The Commander is clearly still suffering from the trauma at the World Summit - and from the Lie associated with it: an overprotectiveness of Glint’s egg that has a strange power to overshadow other practical concerns, given its relative importance.

Lazarus, after proving himself an ally and having done nothing to indicate otherwise, offers aid to the Commander in fighting the dragons (at this point both Jormag and Primordus at once) - something the Commander knows full well is needed and necessary, given the Pact’s devastation in Maguuma and the fact that it is, at this point, still leaderless, not to mention the unprecedented threat of two active dragons at once.

And yet the Commander rejects Lazarus’ offer of aid right out, saying they can’t keep an eye on him all the time; and even when Marjory offers to do that for them, the Commander strenuously objects. Their objection, however, doesn’t have much basis. It seems the Commander is overreacting to a perceived threat to the newly-hatched dragon, but more significantly, they is rejecting a very powerful ally, plus the support of a sizable chunk of the White Mantle - and this rejection is another step into the Lie.

With that, Marjory rejects the Commander’s leadership as the head of Dragon’s Watch and goes to watch Lazarus anyway - nearly an implicit mutiny, not only rejecting authority but usurping the decision of whether or not to ally with Lazarus in the first place. This is a direct consequence, both logically and narratively, of the Commander’s continual rejection of the Truth and constantly clinging to the Lie.

The Commander then asks Caithe to watch the baby dragon. This indicates that they no longer perceives Caithe as being a threat to the egg, especially in contrast to Lazarus.

In the next episode the Commander spends some quality time with Aurene. One thing I notice about their training sessions is that Aurene is being trained to be a hero, set apart and above; she helps feed orphans and aid wounded soldiers, but when she fights, she fights with only the Commander by her side. I can see how Vlast, presumably undergoing the same training, could come to feel isolated. But this isn’t training in the thematic Truth, that unity is required to succeed.

Now, as stories do to characters who aren’t living in the Truth, they will give you a Moment of Truth, an obvious decision point between the Truth and the Lie. This usually happens around the middle of the story, and since the last episode of S3 wasn’t planned, this means the middle of the story is episode three, A Crack In the Ice - yes, the episode with Braham in it.

Now I have a whole separate post for Braham planned, but the narrative role he plays is as a character who is acting within the Truth. His plan for fighting the dragons involves gaining the support of the norn and leading them against Jormag. This is a unity option, and therefore an option that will work, given the dictates of the story. With unity, many impossible things may be achieved.

The Commander’s plan, on the other hand, is to rely on technology and long-forgotten research, to kill two dragons at once “without raising a single sword.” Now, if I was presented this scenario without knowing how it ended, I would have said that Braham’s plan would work and the Commander’s plan would fail, simply because of how one plan adheres to the narrative Truth and one follows the Lie.

Now, of course, these things aren’t so easily known within the story; the characters aren't aware of the Truth/Lie dynamic as such. However, Braham was right. We hadn’t tested our theory, and Jormag was active, at that moment, killing people. Braham’s plan would have put a stop to that. Taimi’s machine would have destroyed the world.

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And the Commander’s primary objection was that people would die - a nonsensical objection given that people WERE dying. In addition, the Commander knows that dragons always exert a toll in death, and that it is better to die fighting than not to fight at all - one of the primary motivations in the PS, before we knew that dragons could be killed at all. This is part of the trauma the Commander carries from Trahearne’s death. They wasn’t nearly so traumatized by other deaths, but without Trahearne and with little to no emotional support from his death, they have a new fear of people dying - I hate to call it irrational or unreasonable, since death is a horrible thing, but death is something you have to be okay with if you’re fighting a war.

Another part of the Commander’s objection was that just because he might be able to crack the Tooth didn’t mean he could fight the dragon, because the legends were just stories. But the Tooth was previously unbreakable, and being able to crack it is a significant increase in power and a good marker of success.

And, in the end, we find that Taimi’s machine wouldn’t have worked, and its very existence endangered the world once Balthazar stole it. On the other hand, we know that Braham’s plan did work: he cracked the Tooth successfully, and he and his norn had Jormag surrounded just before it went to sleep. And we found in IBS that there was a prophecy, so I firmly believe that Braham would have succeeded at killing Jormag if the machine hadn’t put the dragon to sleep. Braham was right all along - just as I could have predicted knowing only about the Truth and the Lie.

If the Commander was being sensible - not driven by the traumas of the World Summit and having had to kill Trahearne - then they would have seen the merit in Braham’s plan, and would have agreed that he should work on doing that while Taimi pursues her research. The Commander would have chosen to continue helping Taimi, or would have gone with Braham to the front lines, since that’s their specialty. Eventually Taimi would have run her simulation and found that the machine was dangerous, and Braham’s plan would have gone forward. (Ideally, the Commander would also have not antagonized Lazarus, who would have joined them in the Shiverpeaks instead of stealing the machine.) We could have killed Jormag in S3 and the Icebrood Saga wouldn’t have happened and the charr civil war would (probably) have been avoided. Not to mention avoiding a feud with Balthazar, which was unnecessary since we ourselves eventually killed the dragons he was threatening anyway.

But the Commander was suffering from trauma and kept on with their pattern of choosing the Lie, so we got S3 and PoF instead. Braham tried to make the Commander see reason - a bit abrasively, yes, a bit angrily, but with a true heart and true intentions nonetheless - and the Commander rejected everything and, at this narratively crucial moment, chose the Lie instead.

There’s another thing that happens narratively when the wrong choice is made at the Midpoint: the protagonist falls into a worse, deeper Lie to cope with the consequences the story is throwing at them. Look:

After the Commander rejected the Truth and Braham’s plan, they told Braham that he was “taking it lightly” - which Braham took a lot of offense to, and with good reason. He left in anger, their friendship ruined. So the Commander lost a good, loyal ally - and those are in short supply - and fell into the worse, deeper Lie that, not only was unity not required to have victory, but nobody wanted to be their friend or ally anyway. I’m sorry, Commander, but those are the natural (and narrative) consequences of trying to do it on your own.

Losing Braham was the first consequence, but the story continued punishing the Commander in other ways, and also more severely since it seemed they wasn't getting the message. Rox went with Braham, so that’s another ally gone. The Commander’s opportunities to change began drying up, too, after that display of an unwillingness to change. Logan took the position of Marshal, and then Canach refused to join Dragon’s Watch - another ally (or two, depending on how you count) lost.

In episode five (the final episode in this analysis), the machine was lost to Balthazar, and the Commander lost Marjory due to injury.

Even putting the machine out of reach didn’t stop the Commander, however - didn’t make them stop and reconsider that maybe Braham’s way was easier. They could still have gone back and apologized. Instead, the Commander pressed forward, now targeting Balthazar. Kasmeer wasn’t willing to do that, so the Commander lost yet another ally.

It was down to the Commander and Taimi, now. Then, finally, the narrative imposed its last consequence in an effort to deter the Commander from the Lie - Taimi ran her simulation and realized her plan was futile all along, that the machine would destroy the world if activated.

This is turning into quite the tragedy, isn’t it? That this one fatal flaw of the Commander’s should leave them with no allies, no friends, and three hugely powerful enemies - two Elder Dragons and a god of war - and their only plan, their only possible way out, would doom the world. See the decision points that led here, all with their balances resting on the difference between the Truth and the Lie, unity and pride?

Even then, however, the Commander could have backed out; the machine had not yet been activated, and we know that Braham was on the brink of killing Jormag. If the Commander had gone to help kill Jormag, the machine wouldn’t have been able to smash Jormag’s magic against Primordus’, and the destruction of the world would have been averted. (Presumably killing just ONE dragon wouldn’t have destroyed the world, since the Commander would finally have made the right choice.) However, the Commander continued to hope against all reason that the situation could be remedied, and went in to try and stop Balthazar from activating it.

Balthazar activating the machine was the point of no return, but the machine wasn’t activated until the Commander was actually in the volcano. There were many chances for the Commander to make the right choice, and it was never taken, and now the Commander was committed - they could no longer make the right choice. There wasn’t enough time to turn around and join up with Braham. And they’d failed to stop Balthazar, and “victory” meant sparing two Elder Dragons - two active Elder Dragons who would be free to continue terrorizing Tyria.

Now, the dragons were put to sleep, but only because we can’t have a whole Elder Dragon killed offscreen by Braham, and we can’t have the Commander being murdered on the spot by Primordus. And that still left Balthazar. All the same threats as before, and none of the allies. And the Commander was still by themself, laden down with traumas and Lies that would continue ensuring their failure.

~oOoOo~

Keep an eye out for my next post on why I dislike the sixth episode, One Path Ends, which I’ll probably finish before I finish the PoF study.