#i see this so much coming from white women and their faves (often also white women). why are you calling someone misogynistic for mentioning

[aalghul]

senselessly hating on a character ≠ talking about the characters flaws and failings (which make them compelling and worth engaging with) is still kicking people’s asses

[utilitycaster]

Hi I just wanted to say thank you for putting everything that frustrates me about the fandom’s interpretation of Imogen and Laudna into words. I’ve made a few posts about Imogen’s flaws and how easily she seems to switch loyalties and I’ve been met with so many people telling me I’m not watching the show right or how Imogen isn’t to blame because she’s being controlled by the moon and it’s exhausting. I’ve been wanting to make a post about it but I didn’t know how to phrase it and you articulated pretty everything I’ve been thinking. I’m also planning on writing about the weird misandry in the fandom and how a lot of people don’t like male or male presenting characters if they can’t them their uwu sad white boy of the month and am really interested if you have any thoughts on that. I really hope people aren’t assholes to you about that post❤️ -brjeauregard

Hey! Thank you so much! I'm assuming you're ok going by your handle here since it was a voluntary add to an anon but if you want me to delete this for whatever reason feel free to message me and I will.

Yeah...I'd agree that it's really tiresome how if you actually want to engage with Imogen as an entire character with motivations and flaws, there's this immediate freakout. It's obnoxious that people seem to think all her impatience, grudges, and little snipes and unkindnesses must come from some other source (the gnarlrock, Ruidus); it can't be her cynicism or being cranky due to exhaustion from holding up her psychic barriers; that only makes her more nurturing and empathetic, apparently). Like, there's all these accusations that people have no empathy for Imogen, coming from people who openly would happily throw every other character (sometimes even including Laudna) from the skyship for the crime of having individual motivations different from Imogen's goals, and I'm very over it.

I would love to see more posts about the misandry, tbh. It's a really tricky subject because like...look, in the real world, misogyny is a load-bearing pillar of oppression not just of women, but one of the core underpinnings of homophobia, transphobia, and toxic masculinity as well. What people call misandry irl is, much of the time, either hatred directed on an individual level rather than a systemic one or is actually oppression of men under a different system (eg, transphobia towards trans or gnc men; racism towards men of color, etc). But in fandom, especially on Tumblr which is overwhelmingly female and/or queer, there is this weird hatred towards men (or, as we've seen a bunch with Ashton, masc-leaning nb people) in fiction for no reason other than they are not women. I'm not linking them here so as to not invite weird shit to the doors of my mutuals but I can think of two very good recent posts that touch on this subject, one from a month or so ago about the fandom tendency to reshape characters in their own (often white middle-class queer) image instead of trying to relate to someone not like you; and one from yesterday that does address fandom misandry directly.

It is interesting because it feels like half of the hatred or weird fanon towards male characters comes from a "well I can't make him into a palatable white sadboy" (trying to turn Orym into The Most Tragic when he is just a guy; ignoring Chetney, Fjord, or Scanlan because they don't fit that mold neatly); and the other half comes from hating the character because he can conceivably be treated as a white sadboy even though he's got much more going on (Vax, Percy, Caleb, sometimes Caduceus). Like, there is really no winning. To be fair, there's also no winning for female characters among people with that mindset (see: the entire post that prompted this, in which they must be Good Examples Of Sweet Unproblematic Women who Chastely Kiss, Pinterest Style) or nb characters (will be misgendered in an instant if they do not support the narrative of the fave or interfere with preferred ships).

I think, generally, once people start judging a fictional character, who lives in a gender-equal world with no transphobia, primarily on the basis of gender, it just turns into a slippery slope of kind of hating every character. I do want to see interesting women in fiction! Part of why I watch actual play is because it is a still relatively rare case where many of the originators of these characters are women who are granted nigh-total creative control over their characters! But I'm not going to write off a character with a personality that speaks to me simply because our genders don't match; that's not interesting to me and it feels far too close to gender essentialism for my comfort. And if you do for whatever reason want to watch actual play that only has female PCs, that is your choice to make...but you then need to find that show instead of being mad that there are men on the show with five men and three women in the main cast.

[127-mile]

Hi!! What are some of your fave books you've read recently? I'm really curious pls feel free to ramble

Hello! I got really excited when I saw the notification, so thank you.

I've read "This is how you lose the time war" by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone, and let me tell you, it was a short book also a ride! A ride mostly because not a lot is explained, you are dropped in a scene, in a world you have limited informations about despite it being our world, you have technology, a war between the past and the present/future.

BUT! It's also a love story, some kind of enemies/rivals to lovers between Red and Blue, two women who belong to different timelines, different sides. And it's epistolary in between the scenes, and the ways the letters are made/found are explained and it's genius.

I become bored quite quickly when the romance is too much, but it was subtle and sweet when the feelings realization happened. It was definitely worth the read and I recommend it if you haven't read it.

---

I was in a bit of a reading slump for a few days and because it was becoming frustrating I read a book I already read a few times. It's called, "Quand vient la horde (when the horde comes)" by Aurélie Luong, book that came out last year so there is no translation (something I hope will happen because this book? 10/10)

A little backstory you didn't ask for, I had never heard of the book or the writer, but one day I went into my favorite bookstore and she was there, so curious I asked her to tell me about her book, and the passion in her voice when she did convinced me to buy it. It's also her first book being published, so I hope she goes far and gets more of her work published.

It happens in a medieval Korea with some Russian touch, as they have invaded the country years ago. The main character, Ivan, survives daily. He is poor, lives with his childhood (and only) friend, when, one night, he gets kidnapped by the white horde. The soldiers of the White Whore, a beautiful woman with white hair who has a goal, avenge her little sister and is not afraid to draw blood. Ivan is the bait. He wants to survive, he wants to get back to his friend and for that he has to play the horde's game. He doesn't have a choice. He does what he is told, get money, and plans his escape.

So it's also a enemies to lovers, but with vengeance being the main point of the book.

I think I could talk for hours about this book as I left a big part of my heart inside. The ending is heartbreaking honestly. The book is dark, touches sensitive subjects but it's nicely written.

-----

I have to talk about Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao. It was a book I wanted to read for so long. (and the author is extremely funny, I follow them on social medias and it's always very fun to see them)

The book has as inspiration for the main character Wu Zetian, the first and only female Emperor of China in the late 600s.

The book is science fiction, lgbtqia+, feminist, with pocs, disabled main character, poly and big robots and aliens, another enemies to lovers (trigger warnings to definitely check before reading)

It's hard to explain the book, so let me copy and paste the summary:

The boys of Huaxia dream of pairing up with girls to pilot Chrysalises, giant transforming robots that can battle the mecha aliens that lurk beyond the Great Wall. It doesn't matter that the girls often die from the mental strain.

When 18-year-old Zetian offers herself up as a concubine-pilot, it's to assassinate the ace male pilot responsible for her sister's death. But she gets her vengeance in a way nobody expected—she kills him through the psychic link between pilots and emerges from the cockpit unscathed. She is labeled an Iron Widow, a much-feared and much-silenced kind of female pilot who can sacrifice boys to power up Chrysalises instead.​

To tame her unnerving yet invaluable mental strength, she is paired up with Li Shimin, the strongest and most controversial male pilot in Huaxia​. But now that Zetian has had a taste of power, she will not cower so easily. She will miss no opportunity to leverage their combined might and infamy to survive attempt after attempt on her life, until she can figure out exactly why the pilot system works in its misogynist way—and stop more girls from being sacrificed.

I'm not that into science fiction, but I was curious. I do have to admit I was lost a few times with some terms used for the robots, and also had a hard time imagining things in my head, but I liked the way her relationship with Shimin changed, and there's also her complete opposite with whom she is friend, a rich man who wants to protect her.

The ending had me on my ass! The second book was supposed to come out in April but it was changed to 2024 and I can't wait.

----

Other than that.. I recently started Caraval by Stephanie Garber. The reason is funny, I saw a book at the bookstore "Once upon a brokenheart" and loved the cover, but then I saw I needed to read the Caraval series first, so here I am. I'm currently on the second book and it's pretty okay. I like the universe of Caraval.

I read "The Invisible Life of Addie Larue" by V.E. Schwab at the beginning of the year and it became one of my favorite pretty fast. It was so nicely written that I can't help but recommend it.

I usually only read horror and thrillers but I haven't been able to find much good ones so I've been trying my hands at other books.

What about you? Tell me everything!

[raytorosaurus]

pls tell me you don't think disliking lynz is misogynistic lol i must've misinterpreted that

nope! it's totally fine to dislike lynz, i also don't like her myself. she's said some very questionable things and MSI grosses me out, as does her association with jimmy urine. i already know people will want to take this the wrong way so i want to make it clear that i'm not defending any of that. i'm pointing out an irritating mindless pattern of behaviour in this fandom that is immature and reductive at best and misogynistic at worst, which includes:

1. the intensity of the vitriol that is directed at her being disproportionate to most of the men ppl blog about who have done/said similar, if not much worse, things. and honestly in a lot of cases disproportionate to what she's actually done

2. the fact that i see so many people (especially on twitter) blindly jumping on the bandwagon of hating on her often without knowing what exactly it is they're hating her for - and even then, most of the reasons i see parrotted on twitter are either contextless and overexaggerated or not even one of the aforementioned valid reasons for disliking her. i don't know how to tell you this but if you believe everything on lynzuglyliar you need to reevaluate how you engage with information on the internet lol

3. the level of glee with which people hate on her, which truly smacks of old-school fandom misogyny reserved for women who marry your faves or get in the way of your favourite ship. on twitter especially it honestly truly feels like people are delighted to have a wife of the band they're "allowed" to hate on lol. i know a lot of that is coming from teenagers who will grow up and learn more self-awareness but that doesn't make it any less annoying or disappointing to see

4. the ridiculous mental gymnastics required to hate her so much while continuing to be a fan of the person who is married to her and in love with her lmao. sorry but if you truly think she's that irredeemable why are you still here

like. i hate msi and i go out of my way to avoid listening to them. but it's worth keeping in mind that the kind of shock-jock edgy gross music they wrote was not exclusive to msi in the 2000s. i hate it too and think it's stupid and counterproductive to whatever point it's supposedly trying to make but it was like. a thing for a while unfortunately. it was bad at the time and it aged even worse, but gerard and frank at the very least, and probably the others too, vocally enjoyed it. frank voluntarily chose to tour with msi and mcr performed with them multiple times and were always excited about it. if you truly think lynz's involvement with that band is indefensible, you should extend at least part of that criticism to mcr too. the amount of times i've seen people saying "omg frank hates lynz so much" is fucking ridiculous, and it's based entirely on the same kind of conjecture that led people to believe mcr didn't remain close friends after the breakup lol. if you have to make up things like that - or worse, make up and spread infidelity rumours or actual domestic abuse allegations (it's not even rare to see this on twitter) - to excuse their association with lynz/msi, you need to take a look at yourself tbh

this is partly a twitter-specific problem because that platform is literally set up to disallow meaningful or nuanced conversation but it's really exhausting to see hundreds of snippy "she's the devil" tweets and if you say anything vaguely critical of the the way fandom treats her you get immediately shot down with "why are you defending A Racist" with zero context or clarification. i hate to break it to you but if lynz is A Racist of an irredeemable level, so is gerard. hell, so is frank for blindly listening to and promoting black metal bands with nazi associations when he as a metal fan should know better and do his research. lynz's racism in question is the kind that's overwhelmingly common among liberal white women who are into witchcraft-type stuff. again, i am not condoning it, it's still wrong, but you cannot hold her to different standards than you do the guys in mcr. i'm just saying if you're able to acknowledge gerard's questionable statements and attitudes in the past, condemn them, acknowledge that he's changing and learning, but still go on liking him as a person and supporting his art...what is the reason you can't do the same for lynz.

i've seen people on twitter accuse lynz of plagiarism in an impressively tone-deaf misinterpretation of her art genre, sometimes the same people who would call gerard doing something similar a clever reference. i have literally seen people quote male members of MSI making sexually objectifying and openly misogynistic comments about lynz as some kind of gotcha saying "look, even her bandmates don't respect her" and like...if you can't see something deeply wrong with that i don't know what to tell you. i've seen COUNTLESS people bring up vague information "revealed" by her actual estranged family members on twitter after people stalked them to try to get dirt on lynz and if you think parroting back contextless one-sided information from other people's private family drama isn't a) about the least reliable source of information ever and b) deeply disgusting and inappropriate, i really don't know what to tell you

if you despise lynz to the point where you're in mcr's comments telling gerard to divorce her (again. i shouldn't have to say that this is disgusting behaviour) or booing when they perform summertime or accusing her of infidelity or abuse (which i cannot stress enough are rumours originally made up by frerard tinhatters) or anything like that, why are you even here. like what mental gymnastics are you doing to be able to remain a fan of gerard at this point. none of this is activism, if anything it's counterproductive to your point because it's indicative of the lack of critical thinking or maturity that's necessary when you're engaging with topics like casual/unconscious racism and normalised sexual abuse in the music industry

i'm probably not going to say more about this because this isn't really the hill i want to die on considering i don't even particularly like her myself but please i am begging you approach your dislike of lynz with just a little bit of critical thought and self-awareness instead of just blindly despising her for things that most of the men we blog about are also guilty of.

[fozmeadows]

race & culture in fandom

For the past decade, English language fanwriting culture post the days of LiveJournal and Strikethrough has been hugely shaped by a handful of megafandoms that exploded across AO3 and tumblr – I’m talking Supernatural, Teen Wolf, Dr Who, the MCU, Harry Potter, Star Wars, BBC Sherlock – which have all been overwhelmingly white. I don’t mean in terms of the fans themselves, although whiteness also figures prominently in said fandoms: I mean that the source materials themselves feature very few POC, and the ones who are there tended to be done dirty by the creators.

Periodically, this has led POC in fandom to point out, extremely reasonably, that even where non-white characters do get central roles in various media properties, they’re often overlooked by fandom at large, such that the popular focus stays primarily on the white characters. Sometimes this happened (it was argued) because the POC characters were secondary to begin with and as such attracted less fan devotion (although this has never stopped fandoms from picking a random white gremlin from the background cast and elevating them to the status of Fave); at other times, however, there has been a clear trend of sidelining POC leads in favour of white alternatives (as per Finn, Poe and Rose Tico being edged out in Star Wars shipping by Hux, Kylo and Rey). I mention this, not to demonize individuals whose preferred ships happen to involve white characters, but to point out the collective impact these trends can have on POC in fandom spaces: it’s not bad to ship what you ship, but that doesn’t mean there’s no utility in analysing what’s popular and why through a racial lens.

All this being so, it feels increasingly salient that fanwriting culture as exists right now developed under the influence and in the shadow of these white-dominated fandoms – specifically, the taboo against criticizing or critiquing fics for any reason. Certainly, there’s a hell of a lot of value to Don’t Like, Don’t Read as a general policy, especially when it comes to the darker, kinkier side of ficwriting, and whether the context is professional or recreational, offering someone direct, unsolicited feedback on their writing style is a dick move. But on the flipside, the anti-criticism culture in fanwriting has consistently worked against fans of colour who speak out about racist tropes, fan ignorance and hurtful portrayals of living cultures. Voicing anything negative about works created for free is seen as violating a core rule of ficwriting culture – but as that culture has been foundationally shaped by white fandoms, white characters and, overwhelmingly, white ideas about what’s allowed and what isn’t, we ought to consider that all critical contexts are not created equal.

Right now, the rise of C-drama (and K-drama, and J-drama) fandoms is seeing a surge of white creators – myself included – writing fics for fandoms in which no white people exist, and where the cultural context which informs the canon is different to western norms. Which isn’t to say that no popular fandoms focused on POC have existed before now – K-pop RPF and anime fandoms, for example, have been big for a while. But with the success of The Untamed, more western fans are investing in stories whose plots, references, characterization and settings are so fundamentally rooted in real Chinese history and living Chinese culture that it’s not really possible to write around it. And yet, inevitably, too many in fandom are trying to do just that, treating respect for Chinese culture or an attempt to understand it as optional extras – because surely, fandom shouldn’t feel like work. If you’re writing something for free, on your own time, for your own pleasure, why should anyone else get to demand that you research the subject matter first?

Because it matters, is the short answer. Because race and culture are not made-up things like lightsabers and werewolves that you can alter, mock or misunderstand without the risk of hurting or marginalizing actual real people – and because, quite frankly, we already know that fandom is capable of drawing lines in the sand where it chooses. When Brony culture first reared its head (hah), the online fandom for My Little Pony – which, like the other fandoms we’re discussing here, is overwhelmingly female – was initially welcoming. It felt like progress, that so many straight men could identify with such a feminine show; a potential sign that maybe, we were finally leaving the era of mainstream hypermasculine fandom bullshit behind, at least in this one arena. And then, in pretty much the blink of an eye, things got overwhelmingly bad. Artists drawing hardcorn porn didn’t tag their works as adult, leading to those images flooding the public search results for a children’s show. Women were edged out of their own spaces. Bronies got aggressive, posting harsh, ugly criticism of artists whose gijinka interpretations of the Mane Six as humans were deemed insufficiently fuckable.

The resulting fandom conflict was deeply unpleasant, but in the end, the verdict was laid down loud and clear: if you cannot comport yourself like a decent fucking person – if your base mode of engagement within a fandom is to coopt it from the original audience and declare it newly cool only because you’re into it now; if you do not, at the very least, attempt to understand and respect the original context so as to engage appropriately (in this case, by acknowledging that the media you’re consuming was foundational to many women who were there before you and is still consumed by minors, and tagging your goddamn porn) – then the rest of fandom will treat you like a social biohazard, and rightly so.

Here’s the thing, fellow white people: when it comes to C-drama fandoms and other non-white, non-western properties? We are the Bronies.

Not, I hasten to add, in terms of toxic fuckery – though if we don’t get our collective shit together, I’m not taking that darkest timeline off the table. What I mean is that, by virtue of the whiteminding which, both consciously and unconsciously, has shaped current fan culture, particularly in terms of ficwriting conventions, we’re collectively acting as though we’re the primary audience for narratives that weren’t actually made with us in mind, being hostile dicks to Chinese and Chinese diaspora fans when they take the time to point out what we’re getting wrong. We’re bristling because we’ve conceived of ficwriting as a place wherein No Criticism Occurs without questioning how this culture, while valuable in some respects, also serves to uphold, excuse and perpetuate microaggresions and other forms of racism, lashing out or falling back on passive aggression when POC, quite understandably, talk about how they’re sick and tired of our bullshit.

An analogy: one of the most helpful and important tags on AO3 is the one for homophobia, not just because it allows readers to brace for or opt out of reading content they might find distressing, but because it lets the reader know that the writer knows what homophobia is, and is employing it deliberately. When this concept is tagged, I – like many others – often feel more able to read about it than I do when it crops up in untagged works of commercial fiction, film or TV, because I don’t have to worry that the author thinks what they’re depicting is okay. I can say definitively, “yes, the author knows this is messed up, but has elected to tell a messed up story, a fact that will be obvious to anyone who reads this,” instead of worrying that someone will see a fucked up story blind and think “oh, I guess that’s fine.” The contextual framing matters, is the point – which is why it’s so jarring and unpleasant on those rare occasions when I do stumble on a fic whose author has legitimately mistaken homophobic microaggressions for cute banter. This is why, in a ficwriting culture that otherwise aggressively dislikes criticism, the request to tag for a certain thing – while still sometimes fraught – is generally permitted: it helps everyone to have a good time and to curate their fan experience appropriately.

But when white and/or western fans fail to educate ourselves about race, culture and the history of other countries and proceed to deploy that ignorance in our writing, we’re not tagging for racism as a thing we’ve explored deliberately; we’re just being ignorant at best and hateful at worst, which means fans of colour don’t know to avoid or brace for the content of those works until they get hit in the face with microaggresions and/or outright racism. Instead, the burden is placed on them to navigate a minefield not of their creation: which fans can be trusted to write respectfully? Who, if they make an error, will listen and apologise if the error is explained? Who, if lived experience, personal translations or cultural insights are shared, can be counted on to acknowledge those contributions rather than taking sole credit? Too often, fans of colour are being made to feel like guests in their own house, while white fans act like a tone-policing HOA.

Point being: fandom and ficwriting cultures as they currently exist badly need to confront the implicit acceptance of racism and cultural bias that underlies a lot of community rules about engagement and criticism, and that needs to start with white and western fans. We don’t want to be the new Bronies, guys. We need to do better.  

[tressasinterlude]

𝐑𝐀𝐍𝐓 #𝟑: Female Public Figures Dating Men with Questionable Views That Contradict Their Image & Alleged Politics

𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: These rant blog posts are really just reflective of my thoughts at the time that I make them and are posted here because I need an outlet to release all of this shit I have going on my busy ass mind. That’s it and that’s all. Now let’s get into it..

This rant was greatly inspired by none other than Ms. Robyn Rihanna “Tell Your Faves To Pull Up [in regards to social injustices directly affecting black people]” Fenty and her openly colorist boyfriend, A$AP Rocky. Aside from the fact that Rihanna tends to slip under the radar and is never held accountable for her problematic ways due to her conventional beauty (i.e. Her heavy usage of anti-Asian slurs, particularly targeted towards Chris Brown’s ex gf, Karrueche), it’s very alarming that a woman who has an entire makeup brand with a campaign based around the inclusivity of ALL black women is publicly flaunting a beau who once said that DSBW do not look good with red lipstick.

And yes, I’m very much aware that Rakim said this tasteless comment over 8 years ago but from the looks of it, not much has really changed with him. Don’t @ me about it neither because I don’t care.

Also peep how he compares a hypothetical darkskinned woman to a man (Wesley Snipes) while trying to explain how his antiblackness isn’t wrong because he said something about white women as well. Gaslighting at its finest. Don’t you just love it! 😀

Furthermore, you would think that somebody of Rihanna’s level of stature would know not to associate themselves with someone as messy as A$AP Rocky but... Stupid is what stupid does, I guess! I can’t even begin to place the blame on him anymore because he’s revealed his true colors and we all have made the deliberate choice to either accept it or don’t and have discontinued all support for him. Unfortunately, misogynoir is never the dealbreaker for most people and the hatred for [dark-skinned] black women is so engrained in society that it’s frowned upon when we publicly speak out against it. Very ass backwards if you ask me but that’s society for you. Now, enough about that. Let’s focus back on Ms. Vita La Coco.

As a woman who claims to be a girl’s girl and is always presenting herself to be someone who is the epitome of a pro-black feminist bad ass, it just makes her alleged activism come off so disingenuous when she’s also laying down with the same man that actively attacks the demographic she’s supposed to be standing in solidarity with. It’s “Black Lives Matter” on the IG posts but your vagina is getting moist for a man who openly stated he doesn’t relate to what goes on in Ferguson because he lives in Soho & Beverly Hills. Ferguson being the exact place where a 17-year-old black boy’s lifeless corpse laid on the hot concrete for FOUR hours after he was murdered by a police officer. He couldn’t 'relate' to the fate of so many black men, women, and children who are murdered or seriously injured from state-sanctioned violence because they’re poor and he is not or so he thought.

But then again, what can I really expect from a woman who identified as being “biracial” until as recent as roughly 6 years ago? What can I really expect from a woman who called Rachel Dolezal a ‘hero’ for cosplaying as a black woman? I’d be lying if I said my expectations for her were high in this regard because sis has always shown us she was lacking in this department. And just for the record, this is not a personal attack on Rihanna at all for the die-hard Navy stans in the back. I admire her latest fashions and bop my head to her music just like the next person but she’s getting the side-eye from me on this one.

Trust and believe me though, she’s not the only woman who I can call out for being a hypocrite. Of course not! This stone can be cast at a few others. So without further ado, why don’t we bring Ms. Kehlani Parrish to the front of the congregation? Prior to Kehlani’s recent declaration of identifying as a lesbian, her last public relationship with a man was with YG. Yes, the same YG who felt it was necessary to say him & Nipsey had ‘pretty light-skinned’ daughters to raise in the middle of his deceased friend’s memorial. By the way, Nipsey’s daughter is not even light (or at least not in my book anyways.) She’s a very deep caramel tone just like her father which makes what he said even more moronic. Yes, the same YG who thought it was clever idea to use slavery as an aesthetic for a music video to a diss track about 6ix9ine. And yes, also the same YG who has derogatory lyrics targeted at bisexual women. Just to end up sweating the red carpets with one. I swear the jokes just continue to write themselves.

This raises the question once more; How high of a pedestal can I really put a multiracial woman who has a song titled ‘N*ggas’ and when received backlash for the song in question, she used the ultimate ‘I’m mixed’ copout while not having a visibly black parent in sight?

It’s also kind of suspicious to me that many were not privy to Kehlani’s secret romance with Victoria Monét (pictured bottom right) until Victoria did an interview with Gay Times revealing she fell in love with a girl but they subsequently broke up because Victoria had a boyfriend and that girl was pregnant in a polyamorous relationship. Fans began to speculate because both Victoria & Kehlani previously candidly spoke about their sexual orientations, Kehlani had just had Adeya and they both were seemingly close. Their short-lived fling would later be confirmed when Victoria released the song ‘Touch Me’ on her last project and Kehlani hopped on the remix. Meanwhile, Kehlani’s relationship with Shaina (pictured bottom left) was very overt and all over her Instagram feed from my recollection. And as you can see, Shaina looks absolutely nothing like Victoria. They look like the complete opposite of eachother in every aspect which is kind of alarming(?) to say the least because why is it that the women she proudly claims as her partners tend to have a very racially ambiguous look such as herself but her ‘sneaky links’ on the other hand are undoubtedly black women? Again, it could just be me jumping conclusions. You know, I’m kinda good for that however something tells me I’m not. Y’all be the judge of the material though.

Last but not least, I’d like to touch on Ms. Raven Tracy very briefly. I was very weary about even including in this segment and if I should just put her in a entirely separate blog post with other women who openly date abusers despite their checkered past (alongside Nicki Minaj & her r*pist murderer of a husband, India Love & Sheck Wes etc.) being this particular blog post was based around the theme of lightskinned/mixed women dating men with extremely problematic views about DSBW. Raven obviously isn’t lightskinned or mixed however I refused to ignore how contradictory her [former] relationship with an alleged (I used this word very loosely and mainly for legality purposes.) serial r*pist while promoting a brand that is all about feminism & body positivity. This also traces back to A$AP Rocky by default being that Ian Connor is his very close friend and he came to Connor’s defense when several women came forward detailing accounts of Connor allegedly s*xually assaulting them. (I wish I could place the actual video of what A$AP Rocky said verbatim but Tumblr only allows one video per blog post. 🙄)

Back in June of this year, Ian & Raven had a back & forth on Twitter after Ian tweeted about Raven “fucking everybody” behind his back. I can only assume that he was alluding to Tori Brixx posting a video of her ex, Rich the Kid & Raven kissing on her story. Disgusted is not even the word to describe my feeling when she admitted she stuck by Ian despite of his many allegations of s*xual abuse because she loved him and her being a empath causes her to want to help everybody. Imagine aiding and abetting a predator and even paying for his bail & legal fees just to turn around and expect sympathy because this same individual cheated on you and exploited you all over Twitter for the public to see. The same man that you would get back with not even a WEEK after the fact & turn off your IG comments because it isn’t our “business” after making it our business...

That being said, I just genuinely want to know: Why do these women completely go against what they stand for in regards to these men? Maybe it was never genuine from jump street and if that’s the case, why jump on the bandwagon of performative activism? Is it because it’s profitable right now? Is it because disrespecting black women is not an immediate death sentence to your careers and more often than not actually helps you advance even further? I guess that’s the billion dollar question that’ll never truly be answered. I just want the world to stop using black women as their stepping stool to get to where they need to go and then discarding of us when we’re no longer beneficial. Support us all the way or don’t support us at all. We deal with enough disrespect as is so we’d appreciate if y’all would stop straddling the fence and partake in your misogynoir out loud if that’s what you choose to do. We have no use for fake allyship and quite frankly, it’s doing more harm for us than good. Please and thank you!

Sincerely,

- 𝙼𝙸𝚂𝚂 𝙴𝙳𝙶𝙰𝚁 𝙰𝙻𝙻𝙴𝙽 𝙷𝙾𝙴. 💋

[army-of-mai-lovers]

in which I get progressively angrier at the various tropes of atla fandom misogyny

tbh I think it would serve all of us to have a larger conversation about the specific ways misogyny manifests in this fandom, because I’ve seen a lot of people who characterize themselves as feminists, many of whom are women themselves, discuss the female characters of atla/lok in misogynistic ways, and people don’t talk about it enough. 

disclaimer before I start: I’m not a woman, I’m an afab nonbinary person who is semi-closeted and thus often read as a woman. I’m speaking to things that I’ve seen that have made me uncomfy, but if any women (esp women existing along other axes of oppression, e.g. trans women, women of color, disabled women, etc) want to add onto this post, please do!

“This female character is a total badass but I’m not even a little bit interested in exploring her as a human being.” 

I’ve seen a lot of people say of various female characters in atla/lok, “I love her! She’s such a badass!” now, this statement on its own isn’t misogynistic, but it represents a pretty pervasive form of misogyny that I’ve seen leveled in large part toward the canon female love interests of one or both of the members of a popular gay ship (*cough* zukka *cough*) I’m going to use Suki as an example of this because I see it with her most often, but it can honestly be applied to nearly every female character in atla/lok. Basically, people will say that they stan Suki, but when it comes time to engage with her as an actual character, they refuse to do it. I’ve seen meta after meta about Zuko’s redemption arc, but I so rarely see people engage with Suki on any level beyond “look at this cool fight scene!” and yeah, I love a cool Suki fight scene as much as anybody else, but I’m also interested in meta and headcanons and fics about who she is as a person, when she isn’t an accessory to Sokka’s development or doing something cool. of course, the material for this kind of engagement with Suki is scant considering she doesn’t have a canon backstory (yet) (don’t let me down Faith Erin Hicks counting on you girl) but with the way I’ve seen people in this fandom expand upon canon to flesh out male characters, I know y’all have it in you to do more with Suki, and with all the female characters, than you currently do. frankly, the most engagement I’ve seen with Suki in mainstream fandom is justifying either zukki (which again, is characterizing her in relation to male characters, one of whom she barely interacts with in canon) or one of the Suki wlw pairings. which brings me to--

“I conveniently ship this female character whose canon love interest is one of the members of my favorite non-canon ship with another female character! gay rights!” 

now, I will admit, two of my favorite atla ships are yueki and mailee, and so I totally understand being interested in these characters’ dynamics, even if, as is the case with yueki, they’ve never interacted canonically. however, it becomes a problem for me when these ships are always in the background of a zukka fic. at some point, it becomes obvious that you like this ship because it gets either Zuko or Sokka’s female love interests out of the way, not because you actually think the characters would mesh well together. It’s bad form to dislike a female character because she gets in the way of your gay ship, so instead, you find another girl to pair her off with and call it a day. to be clear, I’m not saying that everybody who ships either mailee or yueki (or tysuki or maisuki or yumai or whatever other wlw rarepair involving Zuko or Sokka’s canon love interests) is nefariously trying to sideline a female character while acting publicly as if she’s is one of their faves--far from it--but it is noteworthy to me how difficult it is to find content that centers wlw ships, while it’s incredibly easy to find content that centers zukka in which mailee and/or yueki plays a background role. 

also, notice how little traction wlw Katara ships gain in this fandom. when’s the last time you saw yuetara on your dash? there’s no reason for wlw Katara ships to gain traction in a fandom that is so focused on Zuko and Sokka getting together, bc she doesn’t present an immediate obstacle to that goal (at least, not an obstacle that can be overcome by pairing her up with a woman). if you are primarily interested in Zuko and Sokka’s relationship, and your queer readings of other female characters are motivated by a desire to get them out of the way for zukka, then Katara’s canon m/f relationship isn’t a threat to you, and thus, there’s no reason to read her as potentially queer. Or even, really, to think about her at all. 

“Katara’s here but she’s not actually going to do anything, because deep down, I’m not interested in her as a person.” 

the show has an enormous amount of textual evidence to support the claim that Sokka and Katara are integral parts of each other’s lives. so, she typically makes some kind of appearance in zukka content. sometimes, her presence in the story is as an actual character with layers and nuance, someone whom Sokka cares about and who cares about Sokka in return, but also has her own life and goals outside of her brother (or other male characters, for that matter.) sometimes, however, she’s just there because halfway through writing the author remembered that Sokka actually has a sister who’s a huge part of the show they’re writing fanfiction for, and then they proceed to show her having a meetcute with Aang or helping Sokka through an emotional problem, without expressing wants or desires outside of those characters. I’m honestly really surprised that I haven’t seen more people calling out the fact that so much of Katara’s personality in fanon revolves around her connections to men? she’s Aang’s girlfriend, she’s Sokka’s sister, she’s Zuko’s bestie. never mind that in canon she spends an enormous amount of time fighting against (anachronistic, Westernized) sexism to establish herself as a person in her own right, outside of these connections. and that in canon she has such interesting complex relationships with other female characters (e.g. Toph, Kanna, Hama, Korra if you want to write lok content) or that there are a plethora of characters with whom she could have interesting relationships with in fanon (Mai, Suki, Ty Lee, Yue, Smellerbee, and if you want to write lok content, Kya II, Lin, Asami, Senna, etc). to me, the lack of fandom material exploring Katara’s relationships with other women or with herself speak to a profound indifference to Katara as a character. I’m not saying you have to like Katara or include her in everything you write, but I am asking you to consider why you don’t find her interesting outside of her relationships with men.

“I hate Katara because she talks about her mother dying too often.” 

this is something I’ve seen addressed by people far more qualified than I to address it, but I want to mention it here in part because when I asked people which fandom tropes they wanted me to talk about, this came up often, but also because I find it really disgusting that this is a thing that needs to be addressed at all. Y’all see a little girl who watched her mother be killed by the forces of an imperialist nation and say that she talks about it too much??? That is a formational, foundational event in a child’s life. Of course she’s going to talk about it. I’ve seen people say that she doesn’t talk about it that often, or that she only talks about it to connect with other victims of fn imperialism e.g. Jet and Haru, but frankly, she could speak about it every episode for no plot-significant reason whatsoever and I would still be angry to see people say she talks about it too much. And before you even bring up the Sokka comparison, people deal with grief in different ways. Sokka  repressed a lot of his grief/channeled it into being the “man” of his village because he knew that they would come for Katara next if he gave them the opportunity. he probably would talk about his mother more if a) he didn’t feel massive guilt at not being able to remember what she looked like, and b) he was allowed to be a child processing the loss of his mother instead of having to become a tiny adult when Hakoda had to leave to help fight the fn. And this gets into an intersection with fandom racism, in that white fans (esp white American fans) are incapable of relating to the structural trauma that both Sokka and Katara experience and thus can’t see the ways in which structural trauma colors every single aspect of both of their characters, leading them to flatten nuance and to have some really bad takes. And you know what, speaking of bad fandom takes--   

“Shitting on Mai because she gets in the way of my favorite Zuko ship is actually totally okay because she’s ~abusive~” 

y’all WHAT. 

ok listen, I get not liking maiko. I didn’t like it when I first got into fandom, and later I realized that while bryke cannot write romance to save their lives, fans who like maiko sure can, so I changed my tune. but if you still don’t like it, that’s fine. no skin off my back. 

what IS skin off my back is taking instances in which Mai had justified anger toward Zuko, and turning it into “Mai abused Zuko.” do you not realize how ridiculous you sound? this is another thing where I get so angry about it that I don’t know how useful my analysis is actually going to be, but I’ll do my best. numerous people have noted how analysis of Mai and Zuko’s breakup in “The Beach” or Mai being justifiably angry with him at Boiling Rock or her asking for FUCKING FRUIT in “Nightmares and Daydreams” that says that all of these events were her trying to gain control over him is....ahhh...lacking in reading comprehension, but I’d like to go a step further and talk about why y’all are so intent on taking down a girl who doesn’t show emotion in normative ways. obviously, there’s a “Zuko can do no wrong” aspect to Mai criticism (which is super weird considering how his whole arc is about how he can do lots of wrong and he has to atone for the wrong that he’s done--but that’s a separate post.) But I also see slandering Mai for not expressing her emotions normatively and not putting up with Zuko’s shit and slandering Katara for “talking about her mother too often” as two sides of the same coin. In both cases, a female character expresses emotions that make you, the viewer, uncomfortable, and so instead of attempting to understand where those emotions may have come from and why they might be manifesting the way they are, y’all just throw the whole character away. this is another instance of people in the fandom being fundamentally disinterested in engaging with the female characters of atla in a real way, except instead of shallowly “stanning” Mai, y’all hate her. so we get to this point where female characters are flattened into one of two things: perfect queens who can do no wrong, or bitches. and that’s not who they are. that’s not who anyone is. but while we as a fandom are pretty good at understanding b1 Zuko’s actions as layered and multifaceted even though he’s essentially an asshole then, few are willing to lend the same grace to any female character, least of all Mai. 

and what’s funny is sometimes this trope will intersect with “I conveniently ship this female character whose canon love interest is one of the members of my favorite non-canon ship with another female character! gay rights!”, so you’ll have someone actively calling Mai toxic/problematic/abusive, and at the same time ship her with Ty Lee? make it make sense! but then again, maybe that’s happening because y’all are fundamentally disinterested in Ty Lee as a character too. 

“I love Ty Lee so much that I’m going to treat her like an infantilized hypersexual airhead!” 

there are so many things happening in y’alls characterization of Ty Lee that I struggled to synthesize it into one quippy section header. on one hand, you have the hypersexualization, and on the other hand, you have the infantilization, which just makes the hypersexualization that much worse. 

(of course, sexualizing or hypersexualizing ANY atla character is really not the move, considering that these are child characters in a children’s show, but then again, that’s a separate post.) 

now, I understand how, from a very, very surface reading of the text, you could come to the conclusion that Ty Lee is an uncomplicated bimbo. if you grew up on Western media the way I did, you’ll know that Ty Lee has a lot of the character traits we associate with bimbos: the form-fitting pink crop top, the general conventional attractiveness, the ditzy dialogue. but if you think about it for more than three seconds, you’ll understand that Ty Lee has spent her whole life walking a tightrope, trying to please Azula and the rest of the royal family while also staying true to herself. Ty Lee and Azula’s relationship is a really complex and interesting topic that I don’t really have time to explore at the moment given how long this post is, but I’d argue that Ty Lee’s constant, vocal  adulation is at least partially a product of learning to survive at court at an early age. Like Mai, she has been forced to regulate her emotions as a member of fn nobility, but unlike Mai, she also has six sisters who look exactly like her, so she has a motivation to be more peppy and more affectionate to stand out. 

fandom does not do the work to understand Ty Lee. as is a theme with this post, fandom is actively disinterested in investigating female characters beyond a very surface level reading of them. Thus, fandom takes Ty Lee’s surface level qualities--her love of the color pink, her revealing standard outfit, and the fact that once she found a boy attractive and also once a lot of boys found her attractive--and they stretch this into “Ty Lee is basically Karen Smith from Mean Girls.” thus, Ty Lee is painted as a bimbo, or more specifically, as not smart, uncritically adoring of Azula (did y’all forget all the non-zukka bits of Boiling Rock?), and attractive to the point of hypersexualization. I saw somebody make a post that was like “I wish mailee was more popular but I’m also glad it isn’t because otherwise people would write it as Mai having to put up with her dumb gf” and honestly I have to agree!! this is one instance in which I’m glad that fandom doesn’t discuss one of my favorite characters that often because I hate the fanon interpretation of Ty Lee, I think it’s rooted in misogyny (particularly misogyny against East Asian women, which often takes the form of fetishizing them and viewing them only through a Western white male gaze)  

(side note: here at army-of-mai-lovers, we stan bimbos. bimbos are fucking awesome. I personally don’t read Ty Lee as a bimbo, but if that’s you, that’s fucking awesome. keep doing what you’re doing, queen <3 or king or monarch, it’s 2021, anyone can be a bimbo, bitches <3)

“Toph can and will destroy everyone here with her bare hands because she’s a meathead who likes to murder people and that’s it!”  

Toph is, and always has been, one of my favorite ATLA characters. My very first fic in fandom was about her, and she appears prominently in a lot of my other work as well. One thing that I am always struck by with Toph is how big a heart she has. She’s independent, yes, snarky, yes, but she cares about people--even the family that forced her to make herself smaller because they didn’t believe that their blind daughter could be powerful and strong. Her storyline is powerful and emotionally resonant, her bending is cool precisely because it’s based in a “wait and listen” approach instead of just smashing things indiscriminately, she’s great disabled rep, and overall one of the best characters in the show. 

And in fandom, she gets flattened into “snarky murder child.” 

So where does this come from? Well, as we all know, Toph was originally conceived of as a male character, and retained a lot of androgyny (or as the kids call it, Gender) when she was rewritten as a female character. There are a lot of cultural ideas about androgynous/butch women being violent, and people in fandom seem to connect that larger cultural narrative with some of Toph’s more violent moments in the show to create the meathead murder child trope, erasing her canon emotionality, softness, heart, and femininity in the process. 

This is not to say that you shouldn’t write or characterize Toph as being violent or snarky at all ever, because yeah, Toph definitely did do Earth Rumbles a lot before joining the gaang, and yeah, Toph is definitely a sarcastic person who makes fun of her friends a lot. What I am saying is that people take these traits, sans the emotional logic, marry them to their conception of androgynous/butch women as violent/unemotional/uncaring, and thus create a caricature of Toph that is not at all up to snuff. When I see Toph as a side character in a fic (because yeah, Toph never gets to be a main character, because why would a fandom obsessed with one male character in particular ever make Toph a protagonist in her own right?) she’s making fun of people, killing people, pranking people, etc, etc. She’s never talking to people about her emotions, or palling around with her found family, or showing that she cares about her friends. Everything about her relationship with her parents, her disability, her relationship to Gender, and her love of her friends is shoved aside to focus on a version of Toph that is mean and uncaring because people have gotten it into their heads that androgynous/butch women are mean and uncaring. 

again, we see a female character who does not emote normatively or in a way that makes you, the viewer, comfortable, and so you warp her character until she’s completely unrecognizable and flat. and for what? 

Azula

no, I didn’t come up with a snappy name for this section, mainly because fanon interpretations of Azula and my own feelings toward the character are...complicated. I know there were some people who wanted me to write about Azula and the intersection of misogyny and ableism in fanon interpretations of her character, but I don’t think I can deliver on that because I personally am in a period of transition with how I see Azula. that is to say, while I still like her and believe that she can be redeemed, there is a lot of merit to disliking her. the whole point of this post is that the female characters of ATLA are complex people whom the fandom flattens into stereotypes that don’t hold up to scrutiny, or dislike for reasons that don’t make sense. Azula, however, is a different case. the rise of Azula defenders and Azula stans has led to this sentiment that Azula is a 14 y/o abuse victim who shouldn’t be held accountable for her actions. it seems to me that people are reacting to a long, horrible legacy of male ATLA fans armchair diagnosing Azula with various personality disorders (and suggesting that people with those personality disorders are inherently monstrous and unlovable which ahhhh....yikes) and then saying that those personality disorders make her unlovable, which is quite obviously bad. and hey, I get loving a character that everyone else hates and maybe getting so swept up in that love that you forget that your fave is complicated and has made some unsavory choices. it sucks that fanon takes these well-written, complex villains/antiheroes and turns them into monsters with no critical thought whatsoever. but the attitude among Azula stans that her redemption shouldn’t be hard, that her being a child excuses all of the bad things that she’s done, that she is owed redemption....all of that rubs me the wrong way. I might make another post about this in the future that discusses this in more depth, but as it stands now: while I understand that there is a legacy of misogynistic, ableist, unnuanced takes on Azula, the backlash to that does not take into account the people she hurt or the fact that in ATLA she does not make the choice to pursue redemption. and yes, Zuko had help in making that choice that Azula didn’t, and yes, Azula is a victim of abuse, but in a show about children who have gone through untold horrors and still work to better the lives of the people around them, that is not enough for me to uncritically stan her. 

Conclusion    

misogyny in this fandom runs rampant. while there are some tropes of fandom misogyny that are well-documented and have been debunked numerous times, there are other, subtler forms of misogyny that as far as I know have gone completely unchecked. 

what I find so interesting about misogyny in atla fandom is that it’s clear that it’s perpetrated by people who are aware of fandom misogyny who are actively trying not to be misogynistic. when I first joined atla fandom last summer, memes about how zukka fandom was better than every other fandom because they didn’t hate the female characters who got in the way of their gay ship were extremely prevalent, and there was this sense that *this* fandom was going to model respectful, fun, feminist online fandom. not all of the topes I’ve outlined are exclusive to or even largely utilized in zukka fandom, but a lot of them are. I’ve been in and out of fandom since I was eleven years old, and most of the fandom spaces I’ve been in have been majority-female, and all of them have been incredibly misogynistic. and I always want to know why. why, in these communities created in large part by women, in large part for women, does misogyny run wild? what I realize now is that there’s never going to be a one-size fits all answer to that question. what’s true for 1D fandom on Wattpad in 2012 is absolutely not true for atla fandom on tumblr in 2021. the answers that I’ve cobbled together for previous fandoms don’t work here. 

so, why is atla fandom like this? why did the dream of a feminist fandom almost entirely focused on the romantic relationship between two male characters fall apart? honestly, I think the notion that zukka fandom ever was this way was horrifically ignorant to begin with. from my very first moment in the fandom, I was seeing racism, widespread sexualization of minors, and yes, misogyny. these aspects of the fandom weren’t talked about as much as the crocverse or other, much more fun aspects. further, atla (specifically zukka) fandom misogyny often doesn’t look like the fandom misogyny we’ve become familiar with from like, Sherlock fandom or what have you. for the most part, people don’t actively hate Suki, they just “stan” without actually caring about her. they hate Mai because they believe in treating male victims of abuse equally. they’re not characterizing Toph poorly, they’re writing her as a “strong woman.” in short, people are misogynistic, and then invoke a shallow, incomplete interpretation of feminist theory to shield themselves from accusations of misogyny. it’s not unlike the way some people will invoke a shallow, incomplete interpretation of critical race theory to shield themselves from accusations of racism, or how they’ll talk about “freedom of speech” and “the suppression of women’s sexuality” to justify sexualizing minors. the performance of feminism and antiracism is what’s important, not the actual practice. 

if you’ve made it this far, first off, hi, thanks so much for reading, I know this was a lot. second, I would seriously encourage you to be aware of these fandom tropes and to call them out when you see them. elevate the voices of fans who do the work of bringing the female characters of atla to life. invest in the wlw ships in this fandom. drop a kudos and a comment on a rangshi fic (please, drop a kudos and a comment on a rangshi fic). read some yuetara. let’s all be honest about where we are now, and try to do better in the future. I believe in us. 

[bellshazes]

man. had a convo with my fave [state] coworker and she is so, so lovely. i love her, truly, from the bottom of my heart. you can just tell how much she cares about our members and I learn so much from her. and she comes across as blunt often, but she's always saying things that need heard. sometimes, it's with imperfect language. we were just talking about a trans member who had stopped seeing his gynecologist because, in his words, he's trans and didn't need to see a gyno - and had discovered he had ovarian cancer. my coworker was using she/her pronouns for him - not great! - but she was trying to get the group to focus on what barriers there were to that gynecological care, the ovarian cancer. they kept getting on her for the pronoun thing, which, yes, i also told her that if you're unable to hear the preference from the person themself, opting for the gender they're transitioning to (and this isn't "optimal language" i'm using, but it's where my coworker is at) is better. but she was right about trying to focus on helping the actual situation.

i talked it through with her and about my experiences with being out at work but not with my family, about whether there's trans-friendly gynecologists at all in the member's area or if there was trauma there (how likely that is!). and she immediately lit up talking about how awful it is that providers will claim they are trauma-informed or whatever and then fall short. she cares. she gets it, on some level. her use of she/her was a misguided attempt to express in the only way she knew how to focus on the issue of a person not receiving adequate care and needing support through cancer treatment. despite her ignorance, she was doing her damnedest to be this person's best advocate.

and she was so grateful and open to talking through the complexities! it is in fact important to validate to allies that it is hard sometimes to know what pronouns to use when a coworker is out at work but not in the community but that's part of why we do it anyway, because it's hard and important. she cares so much about trying to keep up with terminology she's unfamiliar with and not being seen as bigoted but she's not got a lot of experience talking to people in contexts where she can really learn. and she talked about being black and knowing as an adult culturally her family and friends just didn't openly talk about being trans or queer but she knows there were and are people who are and were. i brought up the complexities of how race plays into gender and transness, where black women can be denied "true" (quote unquote) womanhood because of their race and so how does that factor into being familiar or not with trans experiences? and if you're not white and you're trans, the ways in which you might be denied a gender you're not IDing with, but that's, well, intersectionality. and she had a lightbulb moment, i think, because i don't know she's ever had anyone say it in a way she's allowed to have something in common with. solidarity forever is the way.

there are a lot of willfully ignorant people, but if you connect with someone who's falling short on the "right" words and language and feelings, there are plenty who want to understand better but don't, who want to keep practicing, who care about you even if they don't know how best to show it. i'm really lucky to know people who keep reminding me of that, and who i know want a better world for the youth they serve.

[epickiya722]

Oh really? I thought mirko was fully black or blasian since people are saying its canon just bc she has dark skin!?

WARNING FOR A LONG POST, I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE!

Now I don't know about the Megan Thee Stallion thing being canon (but I definitely wouldn't oppose because she is one of my fave artists), but you're right about the fighter guy!

For those who don't know, Miruko's name and even her fighting style plays tribute to a former pro fighter named Mirko Cro Cop. I have some doubt Miruko's name has anything to do with her race really. A lot of the BNHA characters are referencing something.

Example, Aizawa's hero name is a straight up reference to the 1977 movie 'Eraserhead'. Shishida's hero name is referring to the mythical 'Beast of Gévaudan', while himself is a shoutout to Hank McCoy aka Beast from the Marvel franchise, X-Men. Ashido's first hero name is a reference to the Alien movies.

Really, the only time we know someone's name has to deal with their race and/or ethnicity is with the foreign students, Hiryu Rin and Pony Tsunotori. Rin is canon stated to be Chinese while Tsunotori comes from America, hence her first name actually being an English word.

Now, let me bring up Rock Lock. His real name is Ken Takagi. Now, at first glance you would say he has to be Black American because of his first name, right? Yes and no. Rock Lock is a Black man, but could he be an American one? Well, get this. He isn't the only one with that first name. Cementoss' real name is also Ken Ishiyama. Ken is both an English name and a Japanese name. So with the case of Rock Lock, he could be stated to be born to Black American parents in Japan. He could have a Japanese parent and a Black one. Both parents could be American, but one is Japanese and one is Black. And let's say his Black parent isn't American, but actually African or French or any place. We just know with the case of Rock Lock he is still a Black character because of his features who also happens to be Japanese, hence his last name and that like many other characters, is a native to Japan (born in the Tokushima Prefecture).

Now let's round back to Miruko. This is where I have the issue. Just because she has dark skin doesn't mean she's automatically Black. I need people to be more aware of the fact that Black people aren't the only race of people with brown and dark skin. Yes, we're the first to come to mind, but there are other races of people with brown and dark skin.

With Miruko, it's safe to say she's ambiguous but still Japanese since she's still native to Japan. She's born in Hiroshima. Look at her features compared to Rock Lock. She has straight hair, her skin is just a shade lighter by a tinge. She has red eyes and white hair. Miruko resembles more of an albino rabbit than she does an actual race of human. So it's a free game as to what her race is as long as her being Japanese isn't erased. She could be Blasian, she could be of Spanish descent. Hell, she could be even part Indian. However, that is for us to guess and headcanon all we want. Not CANON.

Horikoshi could have based her off of Megan Thee Stallion. (Who wouldn't want to an anime character of her? I know I do!) I haven't heard about or even evidence, but it's a possibility. Megan doesn't hide the fact she's a fan of anime and BNHA happens to be one of her favorites. Horikoshi could be popping his ass to her music right now, but who is to say?

Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't headcanon her as Blasian. Blasian people do exist. I'm fine with that. But what lies this problem: if you believe Rumi to be Blasian, is it because you relate to her appearance and/or what to see more of said representation? If you do, no issue!

However, if you believe Rumi to be Blasian so you can f*tishize her, that's A MAJOR PROBLEM.

Whether you want to hear it or not, as much as women of color get put down, we are often fantasize by others as if we're objects. HC-ing Miruko as Blasian because you want to do such a thing is a double hitter in a very bad way. Black and Asian women are often seen as nothing but walking sex objects. Not saying this isn't for all women though. It's just a lot of men especially tend to hook up with Black and Asian women because they think it's exotic as driving a foreign car. Not because they simply think the woman is attractive with a nice personality and looks.

I, myself, find Miruko an attractive character and if she was real I would date her in a heartbeat. But as a Black woman, if Miruko was real and someone next to me said "Oh, I'd date her. That fine chocolate bunny." *shivers* I'm punching them in the face. In fact, I have a theory as to why Miruko is so often f*tishize, so I might do a post on that if you want. (And I hope I'm wrong.)

There's nothing wrong with being attracted to character, but if you do it because of race we can't talk, chief.

I actually hate when I hear someone say "Oh, I only date black girls" or "I'm only attracted to Asians" or "You're not my type. You're not Puerto Rican". It almost sounds like this...

"Oh, I only eat chocolate ice cream" or "Apple flavor suits my palette better" or even "I'm not too fond of savory. I think spicy better"

See what I mean? It's like you're being picky because you believe that you're too good for any woman. You must have the most exotic one in the room. Like WOC are prizes. We're people, too, damn it.

This all can happen to men, too, just want to point that out. Because I'm sure there's someone out there who fantasizes over Rock Lock because he's Black.

To close in, it is fine to headcanon what a character's race is as long as you're not doing this -> erasing their canon race especially if they're of color and f*tishizing them because of race. Until Horikoshi says "Yes, Miruko is a Black woman", than we can say whatever race Miruko is.

[shijiujun]

[END 2020] My Top 9 Danmei Novel Picks of the Year

As a part of my Round Up post for the year, here’s my pick of favourite danmei novels, that I’ve read! This is sort of an accompaniment to my previous danmei rec list over HERE, so there may be one or two overlaps, but I’ve read WAY MORE after that and am prepared to like give more options here 

Note: There should be English translations for all via novel updates if you do a search of the English name, but I don’t think most of them are completed.

If you wanna see my full reading and queue list (it’s all in Chinese tho, for my own records), it’s here.

I’m leaving out the usual MXTX and Priest ones, because they’re already good and we all know that and there’re many carrds and posts dedicated to them.

I am also a sucker for fainting but smart men, and not too overly angsty/complicated storylines, just putting it out there first, which is why I haven’t read a lot of some of the ones on my queue list.

-------

1. 一剑霜寒 | A Sword of Frost by 语笑阑珊

Summary: Jing Yan Ran is the Emperor’s brother and wields military power in the novel, and it starts with an object being stolen from the palace. Jing Yan Ran has to retrieve the item secretly, and so enlists the help of Feng Yu Sect’s Sect Master, Yun Yi Feng, who heads the martial arts world’s one and only information trading post. Yun Yi Feng does not deal in business that involves any royalty, but Jing Yan Ran offers him something he cannot refuse - the Blood Red Lingzhi, a rare and mystical herb that is rumoured to be able to treat his life-threatening condition. 

Yun Yi Feng was used by his shifu when he was younger to test out all kinds of poisons and cures, and since then, his body flushes dangerously hot and cold frequently, with bouts of severe coughing fits in between. Throughout the first mission where he spends time with Jing Yan Ran searching for the stolen object, he allows Jing Yan Ran to take care of him, and they fall in LURVE pretty much like 10 chapters in.

Of course, they have to uncover a plot and conspiracy against their enemies who are plotting to dethrone the Emperor, and also reveal the secrets of Yun Yi Feng’s birth.

My Thoughts: AN ABSOLUTE FAVE AND GEM, I’d say this is my favourite danmei novel ever. This is both hilarious and tears-inducing, to be honest, because for most of the novel YYF knows he doesn’t have long to live and so in the beginning he knows of his own feelings for JYR and JYR also shows him that he loves him, but he is unable to officially reciprocate because he knows his body is like weakening day by day. Halfway through the fear that he’s literally about to die as they are JUST about to find the cure is real, and damn I cried so much at that. Some highlights:

YYF falls asleep very easily in baths and everywhere actually, and pretty much within the first 10 chapters he gets used to JYR carrying him around (even naked from the bath, he’s like oh well, okay cool) and taking care of him, and JYR ALWAYS makes sure he is warm and toasty under his cape

YYF LOVESSSS RICHES, PLAYING THE ZITHER AND COOKING - He’s good at gathering the first one, but he FUCKING SUCKS AS THE LAST TWO - It’s so funny because he’s so beautiful and handsome right, and when he sits down at the zither everyone is like OH DAMN WHAT A DREAM- and then he plays, and everyone’s fantasies is shattered, he’s ABYSMAL at it, and the same goes for cooking

JYR doesn’t actually have the Blood Red Lingzhi, and throughout the first arc, he feels SO DAMN GUILTY because YYF even carved out a pendant that looks like what he thinks the herb looks like, and like carries it with him everywhere LMAO

Available: Novel Online and Manhua on Bilibili

2. 高能二维码 | High Energy QR Code by 青色羽翼

Summary: CEO Xing Ye’s brother Xing Shuo has just passed away at the age of 24, and nothing will make him believe that Xing Shuo died of natural causes despite autopsies and experts telling him that he really died simply of a heart failure. Xing Ye, who has impeccable memory, suddenly recalls the last time he saw Xing Shuo. His brother called out to him just before Xing Ye left for a business trip, and looked as if he had something to say, but ended up just wishing him a safe trip.

At that moment, there was a QR code on Xing Shuo’s phone, and the phone screen was strangely turned out towards Xing Ye, and Xing Ye, with his incredibly high IQ and memory, realizes that Xing Shuo wanted him to see the QR code. Quickly, he reproduces the QR code by pen and then scans it, and finds himself in a game world.

There he meets a narcissistic but also cute mirror which can speak, and finds out later that his name is Lu Ming Ze. Xing Ye’s mission is to clear the game missions in each round that is set by the black and white cubic game system, a system that continuously tempts its players into giving in to committing sins such as killing someone else, stealing and other things. He soon realizes that if he cannot stay on a path clear of these sins, he will never be able to triumph over the game system and return Lu Ming Ze back to his body in the real world. 

At the same time, he gains new teammates and friends for life, and also finds out what role his brother played in this game. 

My Thoughts: MY GOD I LOVE THIS. I LITERALLY JUST FINISHED READING THIS YESTERDAY, and honestly it’s one of my faves. I don’t like game systems very often (I’ve read three others so far, and this, and KOD are the only ones I’ve liked) but this one is *chef’s kiss*. So LMZ was born like with a really handsome face, like SUPER HANDSOME, and that’s why he’s like a harmless narcissist that cannot bear to look at ugly things LMAO, but he’s not spoilt, he makes sure that Xing Ye stays true to himself, and help him keep his head clear. 

THE ONLY THING ABOUT THIS FRICKIN NOVEL IS THAT LU MING ZE STAYS A MIRROR, LIKE DIFFERENT KINDS OF MIRRORS, in the first TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY CHAPTERS. I KID YOU NOT. I FRICKIN KID YOU NOT. I swear I was sooo touched starved at the end of the novel, because they couldn’t even kiss?!! Like Xing Ye kisses the mirror, and then uses his thumbs to like hi-five mini LMZ in the mirror back, they can’t even hug. Do you know how empty my arms felt when I read this book?!! And my arms have never been filled!!!!!!

I really like this one because each game world is set up in such a brilliant way, but it’s not so unnecessarily complex that you literally don’t know what the fuck is going on. Xing Ye’s intelligence as he outmanoeuvres every single one of his enemies and convinces his would-be loyal teammates to trust him is so satisfying, world after world, victory after victory.

Humour is also absolutely ON POINT. A lot of it is centred on Xing Ye getting caught in the real world kissing his handheld mirror (LMZ) by LMZ’s parents (who cannot see him in the mirror) and LMZ’s parents going like ???!!!!!!!! 

Available: Novel Online | Physical Novel is coming out on 10 Dec (freebies are, you guessed it, a mirror)

3. 妻为上 | The Wife is First by 绿野千鹤

Summary: This is set in a historical setting where men can marry other men, but it’s usually reserved for sons who were not borne by the official main first wife of the patriarch of the family, i.e. a son born by a concubine in a family may be forced to marry a man to keep him from being able to become the next family’s patriarch for example. This is because any family’s next leader needs to be able to have children with a wife who married in as a zheng shi (lawful wife), and not a ce shi (second wife) or any other concubines/mistresses etc. Most of these men who marry other men have to take them as their zheng shi and lawful spouse in a sense, and the same goes for the royal family.

The story starts with third prince Jing Shao, who was forced to marry Mu Han Zhang, a Marquis’ second son, by the Empress and Emperor, thereby officially and effectively cutting him out of the race for the throne. He’s mocked by the public as everyone knows what this means, and for the next 10 years, he neglects Mu Han Zhang, blaming him for his predicament, and deliberately showers his three other concubines with affection in front of him, but 10 years later, when Jing Shao is accused of treason, everyone leaves him except for Mu Han Zhang. They are chased to the edge of the cliff by soldiers, and Mu Han Zhang dies in his arms having taken an arrow meant for him earlier, and Jing Shao jumps off the cliff with his dead body, and promises that if there’s a next life, he will do everything Han Zhang says, and love him.

He wakes up immediately on the night of his marriage with Han Zhang, and realizes that he’s been given a second chance to make everything right. Han Zhang is definitely afraid of him, humiliated and angry when he first wakes up after how rough Jing Shao was with him earlier on their wedding night, and he has no memories of their past life. Jing Shao then sets to SHOWER HAN ZHANG with affection, love and basically everything, because he realized that this is the only person who stayed by his side until the end, and then he falls in love with Han Zhang properly this time, and also deals with every single person who maligned and schemed against him in his previous life, with Han Zhang by his side.

My Thoughts: OKAY BEFORE YALL GO INTO THE ‘WIFE’ terminology discourse and everything, in this case they do use the term ‘wife’ literally, and it’s a position, that while men frequently fall into (there are a lot of male ‘wives’ in this story), is also used to cut off like sons from inheriting the family and the fortune, and even titles. Male ‘wives’ aren’t looked down upon in this setting, in fact, Han Zhang gets a lot of leeway as one, and in his case he was also able to rise up the ranks to be an actual official later on, but the sad thing comes from sons who are most of the time forced to marry a male ‘wife’ for whatever reason, and then they are neglected as the son goes and find concubines, women he actually wants to sleep with - this is sad af yall. I don’t know, on one hand, yay for equality in marriage in this setting, but on the other hand like, damn, must you use same-sex marriage like that argh.

ANYWAY THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVES TOO?!!! I mean, especially when Jing Shao literally just goes into doting mode 200% and Han Zhang is totally like wtf why is he so nice to me is he scheming or something? And then he realizes that Jing Shao is really, really gentle towards him despite his reputation as a cruel, dark military commander, and Jing Shao always smiles at him. In any situation, especially in the beginning, when Han Zhang thought Jing Shao would not stand with him, Jing Shao literally just protects him no matter what, gives him everything, and cries, I love it. 

Especially because Han Zhang is the son of a concubine and he was bullied a lot in the Mu family, and the official Lady Mu married him off to Jing Shao in hopes that he would be unhappy for the rest of his life, and I suppose that came true in the first life, but in the second, Han Zhang gets all the love, respect and support he never got before in this family with Jing Shao and that makes me WEEP.

Available: Novel Online and Manhua on Kuaikan

4. 死亡万花筒 Kaleidoscope of Death by 西子绪

OOOH I intro-ed KOD here in my previous rec list. Still one of my faves and all-time re-reads, especially under the covers in the dark hehehe.

5. 你的距离 | Your Distance by 公子优 

Summary: Ting Shuang is a student at a German university, and has this handsome professor Bai Chang Yi who he swears kind of hates him. He’s just broken up with his longtime boyfriend, and then goes on this dating app that matches a profile with him based on distance. The app can also show the matched profile’s distance from him once they enter the same area, and Ting Shuang starts chatting with this Chinese guy on the app, who he finds out later, is 36 years old, 187cm in height and wears glasses. 

The guy is a little aloof and cool, very mature in his replies on the app, and somehow Bai Chang Yi finds out who he is later, as Ting Shuang starts complaining to him about his professor to Bai Chang Yi. Instead of getting angry and offended, BCY is pretty much amused and finds Ting Shuang cute. A few days later Ting Shuang finally realizes who it is he’s been texting, and after getting past the initial embarrassment and fear, they start dating for real, and they really fall in love!!!!! 

My Thoughts: This is sweet and also hilarious af, if you need to like satisfy your sweet tooth, this is definitely one for you. It’s really funny because Bai Chang Yi runs in the same circles as Ting Shuang’s dad, who he’s estranged from because the dad doesn’t want to recognize a son who is gay, and then BCY convinces him later in the funniest of ways, and there’s a small subplot at the end in which Ting Shuang is pretty cool, and yep, short and sweet! BCY in the manhua is handsome af too guys ;-;

Available: Novel Online, Audio Drama on Maoer FM and Manhua on Bilibili, 

6. 神木挠不尽 The White Cat’s Divine Scratching Post by 绿野千鹤

Summary: Mo Tian Liao, a weapons forger and master who ruled the Demon Tribe, was hunted down and killed by other righteous sects in the region when he managed to forge an incredibly destructive weapon that could end the world. Before he died, he placed the only thing he loved, a white cat, into a hole in the tree behind him to protect it. The only thing he was grateful for was that he did not create a blood pact with the cat, Xiao Mao, because if he had done so, when he died, Xiao Mao would have died along with him as well.

Right before he dies, unbeknownst to him, Xiao Mao who is no simple demonic cat, wraps part of his consciousness around Mo Tian Liao, and MTL’s spirit ends up floating about for 300 years, until he finds a suitable time to return with a body made out of a special tree and its wood. The first thing he does, of course, is to find his white cat, but he’s poor, and the body he has isn’t powerful, so he joins Wo Yun Sect, the only sect that did not hunt him down that day hundreds of years ago.

There, he is chosen by Qing Tong shizun to be his direct disciple, much to the astonishment of other shizuns in the sect, and Qing Tong’s shixiongs. MTL has never seen a person as beautiful and gorgeous as his shizun, and if only he could find that cat (who’s actually his shizun, who recognizes him and protects him, even if MTL doesn’t actually need much protection).

My Thoughts: This was hilarious as well, and so romantic?!!! Qing Tong/Xiao Mao waited for MTL to come back, and the moment he came back, Qing Tong was there ready to grab him, and then before he went to sleep that night, Qing Tong thought to himself, “I’ve gotten my person back, I can sleep well now” and AHHHHH at this point they weren’t even like a couple yet? MTL ‘kidnapped’ Qing Tong when he was a young demon cat by accident because he likes pretty things (like his shizun lmao) and Qing Tong is attached to him because MTL never forced a blood pact on him, and gave him everything he wanted as a younger cat before MTL died. Gosh, a mirror in #2 and then a cat now with this one. XD

Available: Novel Online

7. 破云 | Breaking the Clouds by 淮上

Summary: Three years ago, Captain Jiang Ting and his team of the Narcotics division perished in an explosion due to a wrong call of his, and he returns three years later under a new identity ready to deal with the people who set him and his team up. He’s caught in what seems to be a simple murder case almost immediately and meets Yan Xie, who’s Vice Captain and in charge of this case. Yan Xie realizes who Jiang Ting is shortly after, and begins to unravel the huge mystery surrounding the events of three years ago, and falls in love with Jiang Ting along the way as well.

My Thoughts: Okay out of the FOUR crime/detective/thriller danmei novels I’ve read, the poyun and tunhai (below) series is the one that MIRRORS actual narcotics division and undercovers the best. It has the complexity and depth of the drugs/narcotics world, and both this one and its sequel focuses a lot on the position of an undercover and mole. I liked this one a lot because there are SOOOO many twists especially in the last arc, like you honestly won’t see any of them coming until it hits you? And Yan Xie is such a confident, rich-ass narcissist, and he keeps asking Jiang Ting if he can “just touch” him ONCE lmao, he’s thick-skinned af, but that’s why he and Jiang Ting are so compatible ;-;.

Available: Novel Online, Novel Print, Audio Drama and Manhua on Bilibili

8. 吞海 | Swallowing the Sea by 淮上

Summary: Sequel to Po Yun. Yu Wu is a young-looking new detective under Captain Bu Chong Hua’s narcotics team. Bu Chong Hua is Yan Xie’s cousin by actual relation, but brother in relationship because BCH’s parents died early and Yan Xie’s parents have been taking care of him mostly. He cannot stand Yu Wu, who seems to want to coast through at work and keep to a 9-5 work schedule. 

It’s only after an altercation and Yu Wu dumping his nonchalant facade to snarl at BCH that he realizes that YW is actually more interesting and mysterious than he thought, and he begins to try to get close to him, understand him. It turns out that Yu Wu is a famous undercover who nearly died a year ago during an operation, and due to various reasons, he was assigned to BCH’s team by higher ups so he can peacefully live the rest of his life out there. However, his past catches up with him quickly, and his enemies turning up forces him to rely on BCH. 

With BCH, Yu Wu’s resentment of having to be an undercover in the past and being so easily discarded by his team’s leaders, and of him being forced to be in the shadows while others can announce their achievements to the world, is slowly erased, because BCH sees him, knows him, and understands him more than anyone else.

My Thoughts: I actually liked this one better than the first one - Yu Wu is such a pouty, angry little thing?! And for good reason (there’s a bit of cannibalism in the book, not by choice when he was younger and in a poor village in Cambodia, where some militants forced survivors in the village to eat the meat of boiled corpses of other villagers, so YW is a vegetarian, like if he eats meat he gets really sick) and the twists here are even more amazing?! BCH really, really, devotes himself to YW the moment he realizes how much he likes him, doing a 180 degree turn. Instead of Yan Xie’s flamboyance, BCH is much steadier, grouchy, like an old uncle, but also looks at things even more clearly than Yan Xie does sometimes. Yu Wu is understandably bitter about what he had to go through, and BCH is the ONLY person who can calm him down, whom he listens to, which I LOVE. Some highlights:

Yu Wu grew up in a poor village and thus loves money, and he fights in underground betting rings to earn more money - The stash of hidden money he collects I think is half for his escape money, but if he happens to never need it, his dream is to donate the money to his village so they can open up a school there - ANYWAY because Yan Xie’s parents, and technically BCH’s ‘parents’ are soooooo rich right, Yan Xie’s mom shows her approval to her son-in-laws (Jiang Ting first, then Yu Wu), by giving them winter pants. It’s kind of like inside warmers, and usually meant for older ladies to wear LOLOL so Yu Wu was like staring at the pants when he finally got them and looked soooo reluctant until Jiang Ting told him it costs $6,000 AND HE WAS LIKE :333333 okie

He acts a lot like a kid?!! He likes eating like some snack but it’s really unhealthy for him, and BCH the mother hen keeps catching him in weird places like the toilet, where he’s hiding from BCH so he can eat his fave snack?! And the whole police station knows not to give YW what he wants in terms of snacks and smokes because once BCH finds out, he makes life very difficult for them HAHAHAHA

9. 穿成反派如何活命 | How to Survive as A Villain by 伊依以翼

Summary: Rich and handsome CEO Xiao Yu An finds out he has a terminal illness (cancer), and dies while he’s reading this online novel, where a king mistreats the crown prince from a neighbouring state which sent him over as hostage after losing a war, and ends up being killed by the crown prince years later (SVSSS much?!). He wakes up AS THE KING, and afraid of dying, he immediately goes about befriending the prince, Yan He Qing. Yan He Qing falls in love with Xiao Yu An while being his friend/hostage/bodyguard, and Xiao Yu An tries to avoid all the deaths he read in the book, while making sure Yan He Qing manages to find his three/four wives, including Xiao Yu An’s sister.

Of course, because Xiao Yu An showed him warmth and kindness, Yan He Qing ends up falling for him instead, and Xiao Yu An is an absolute oblivious idiot because he REALLY doesn’t realize until much later. Yan He Qing ends up declaring war on Xiao Yu An’s kingdom because he is duty bound to do so, but doesn’t hurt Xiao Yu An, wanting to keep him by his side, but YHQ’s scheming uncle drives a wedge between them, and XYA leaves, breaking YHQ’s heart.

They meet again a few years later, where XYA is training to be a physician in a small village and chances upon a severely injured YHQ. There, he realizes that it was all a misunderstanding, and that YHQ actually LIKES, LIKES him, but before they can enjoy this short period of happiness, disaster strikes again.

My Thoughts: THIS WAS really enjoyable, and with the manhua visuals, it is *chef’s kiss*. I think this transmigration version actually delved into the part where XYA is unable to change everything, and if he saves one person, someone else is destined to die, and that moral dilemma devastates him a lot. In this novel he actually transmigrates TWICE, once into the king’s body, and the second time into a neighbouring state’s prince/king’s body, who looks exactly like his modern self after. YHQ is real sweet to him istg, and I like that the epilogues are SUPER EXTENSIVE, including an arc where YHQ and XYA transmigrate back to the real world and everyone who died is alive and close to them, and gets their happy ending ;-;

Available: Novel Online and Manhua on Bilibili

[olderthannetfic]

Ah, I do see your points, anon. I'm not going to post all your asks publicly because if you really feel that unsafe, it's probably best not to have a bigass chunk of your text for people to analyze and try to guess your identity from. I think one of the best points you made is about how close to home it hits when the non-fave is not only your fave but is similar to you in some way like demographic. You're not wrong for having those emotions. I do wonder if they make it hard to see how some other people feel similarly embattled on other axes.

TBH, I think one of the big problems here is that the large aggregate patterns you're talking about are racist, but most individual fics and fans are not really the problem. It's hard to know how to talk about this or who to tell to "fix" it when we're looking at free, hobbyist art.

A lot of people's tastes are certainly formed by shitty society, but once they're formed, they don't change fast if at all. Asking someone to rewrite their libido is a big ask, yet tumblr does it all the time as though it's as simple as snapping your fingers.

This leaves me with the sense that a lot of tumblr is... like... the political lesbians of porn fic or something: desire is not real, only choosing based on logic and politics. Or maybe people are so asexual that they just don't understand the lizard brain's "YES!" at some porn things and complete indifference to others?

I don't think it's great if great swaths of people feel like bottom!Nicky is super hot and top!Nicky fundamentally isn't, but I also don't think they can necessarily just turn it off like flipping a switch.

(If someone reading this doesn't like their current tastes and wants to attempt to alter them, I do think it's possible. What you should do is line up a large slate of media that prominently features characters of the ethnicity or whatever that you don't find hot/interesting. These should be leads whose emotional development drives the plot and is supposed to be central to the audience's enjoyment of the media. Watch/read/etc. this media all the time. All. The. Time. Try out many pieces because you won't like every character or every show, and we're looking for genuine enjoyment, not the fandom equivalent of a pity fuck. Spend enough time on this, and your unconscious sense of who's hot and interesting will eventually shift somewhat. This is a project you should expect to take a few years.)

But I digress.

The one tweet thing is a very toxic pattern. If TOG fandom is doing that, guys, please try to be more conscious of holding the actors of color to a higher standard (or the women or whomever). I know this often comes from a place of paying more attention to our own and wanting to set a good standard, but the effect is that minorities can't fuck up ever while white dudes get infinite passes.

Okay, on to the fic thing... Gotta say, my instant reaction to that description is "Ooh!"--as it would be for the same scenario with the characters reversed. (Ships who start out trying to kill each other are my favorite! x1000 if they're resurrecting style immortals and they literally do.) I can see how it would feel like slamming into a brick wall if you aren't kinky in just the right way and you didn't know it was coming though.

Part of why I react so strongly to a lot of discourse that runs along these lines is that I am a naturally extremely kinky person. It's not so much about what I do (which as a deeply lazy person in a long distance relationship is essentially nothing), but it's absolutely how I'm wired.

And I can tell you that my quotidian experience in fandom is sharing something I don't even realize is a big deal only to have someone I like, respect, and trust react in horror and tell me that it's triggering and awful and should not be allowed in fandom spaces because it makes "people" unsafe. It's such an instant, kneejerk reaction they don't even realize I was sharing it because it spoke to the very core of me. Lesson learned, friend. Lesson learned.

That sounds a bit off topic, I know, but bear with me: The point of that anecdote is that it's pretty common for me to get people trying to raise my awareness of things I have already thought deeply about while denying my essential humanity and not even realizing. As a kinky person who likes to make my fave the top (and generally a conflicted sadist), this constant request to explain and justify is exhausting.

I doubt most of the top!Joe fans have this precise problem simply because people who make their fave the top are much less common in fandom than people who make their fave the bottom, but I see a similar pattern with fans who are just fundamentally wired for rape fantasies (one of the most common fantasies that exists) vs. fans who just don't get rape fantasies at all. Or substitute your BDSM/kinky/messed up fantasy trope of choice. Covertly radical feminist attitudes towards kink and power are on the rise in fandom, and as a naturally kinky person, boy do I notice it!

I know that it feels like crucial activism to share these insights about why the ratio of top!Joe is hurtful, and the pain you feel is real. But it's also the case that it's a big ask to want people to listen. (Not me. Obviously, I routinely choose to engage with discourse. I mean overall.) The reason for that is that you're only seeing a fraction of what they do or who they are, and you don't know how many previous people they've listened to how many previous times. It's a very different situation from someone whose job is making some major TV series or movie or something. That person does, in my opinion, owe you some amount of listening.

Now, I'm not saying no top Joe fan was ever a jerk. I'll bet they were. There's a tendency to be rude and to publicly air your schadenfreude when you feel like everyone has been yelling at you. What I am saying is that a lot of the problem here boils down to conflicting needs, and that means there isn't a good solution. It's a situation where people are genuinely hurt, but I don't necessarily agree that other people have harmed them.

I like that you did an actual count of the explicit fics, btw. It's good to look at the real numbers. I see too little of that in these situations. My off the cuff reaction is that 2/3 to 1/3 is not a bad ratio at all compared to many fandoms, but yeah, it definitely shows a strong trend, and that can be painful. (I have a fandom where I think there's maybe like 1 bottom so-and-so fic in the entire zine era fandom. One. It's pretty extreme.)

I guess my thinking here overall is: What is the practical solution? What are we hoping to gain? What is reasonable to ask of people?

And it can't be "Well, if they would just listen..." That's just a sneaky way of saying "If you haven't done it my way, it's because you haven't listened to me yet."

So the question I would ask of people is this:

What does a non-racist fic where Joe tops look like?

What does a non-racist sex pollen, dubcon, or even noncon fic where Joe tops look like?

And if you say the latter is impossible... well... sadists exist everywhere in the world. So do doms. So do people who prefer to top in a purely physical sense. People with rape fantasies where they're the rapist exist (people who are not actually rapists, I mean). None of this is restricted to any one group. We can't categorically say fic like that about Joe is coming from a place of racism without denying the fundamental humanity of kinky MENA people who'd want to make Joe like themselves or like their ideal partner. (Yes, I agree this won't be the majority of fic writers writing top!Joe, but this is a place to start for figuring out what the better version would look like.)

IDK, maybe you're that kinkster yourself, but your asks gave me the vibe that you don't really get the drive towards those darker kinds of fics and what might be motivating it besides stereotypes and shittiness.

If we can answer these kinds of questions, we can better critique the way people write what they write without telling them all of their taste is bad and they should just stop writing. Even if we think the latter is true, it isn't going to get us anywhere. Figuring out how to make Joe more multidimensional in the fic they already want to write or finding very specific wording that should be avoided might actually work.

Beyond that, the actions I think are productive would be running prompt fests, exchanges, or other events for bottom!Joe or for top!Joe where he's the main character and the fics are required to be from his POV. Themed collections and recs lists are great. (I've seen a bit of this going around in TOG fandom in the past, and that's an excellent approach! Keep it up!) Positive actions tend to work better here. Make more of what you want. Promote what you want to see.

I don't mean this in some fluffy magical thinking way: you aren't going to change that ratio radically just by the power of positivity. But I've seen this kind of thing play out in many, many fandoms, and going after the people who write what you don't like, even in a well-intentioned effort to educate and even in a polite, kind way doesn't do much. A few people feel guilty. A few feel defensive. A lot ignore you. The overall fic doesn't change. It's not a good use of your limited time and energy.

I'm off to look up that fic to see what I think of it in practice, but I'm going to post this before tumblr manages to eat it.

[xaibaugrove]

Everyone in the Krew is Problematic

I was inspired to go on this rant by someone who recently brought up a question in a server I’m in, asking why so many people in the fandom seem to hate Mako and Makorra and why. This wouldn’t be the first time I defend Mako and it most likely won’t be the last, but it might be the first time I tear him and everyone else in the Krew down in the process, only to bring them back up. Hear me out though.

I think I’ve totally accepted that a lot of people in this fandom will always hate Mako and that I will have to perpetually defend him, I understand that this is the relationship I’ve chosen with this world. But what I still will never understand are the reasons why people hate/dislike him because compared to how much they love other characters in the Krew who honestly aren’t that much better than him (in some cases, even worse!), it doesn’t make any sense.

Let me also preface this by saying, I love these characters with all my heart and soul, probably more than I should love fictional characters, but this is the life I live and with that being said, I am going to tear them apart just to prove a point. Okay, here we go.

MAKO

Most of his detractors list the usual criticisms, which are valid when isolated. He cheated on Asami, he lied to Korra, he was a terrible boyfriend and essentially he treated the women he claimed to love or care about horribly. Gee, it’s almost like the man was a teenager with no experience in having long-lasting, healthy relationships and was raised in the streets by gangmembers while doing anything to survive and provide for his younger sibling after seeing his parents killed right in front of him and suddenly being orphaned…

I think Mako has been torn down enough, so I won’t get too deep into the tearing down part for him. It really does baffle me how someone can claim to be woke and not comprehend how someone coming from poverty could possibly be a product of their environment. Like, does everyone think that poor people automatically have hearts of gold and turn out like Little Orphan Annie? Why are people surprised that when someone has a shitty life, they might do shitty things?

Also, sooo many people love Zuko, who actively tried to cause harm to Aang, Katara and Sokka numerous times, and sympathize with his troubled past. But like, sure Zuko had an abusive father and his mother peaced out of his life for whatever reasons but at least he had his uncle. Mako had his parents for maybe 8 years before they were murdered in front of him and then had...no one for the next 10 years? Except for Bolin, sure, but no other parental figure in his life. Dude literally had to become him and his brother’s own parent and joined a gang to survive, and after all that, the worst he does is acts as a bad boyfriend toward Korra and Asami and he is instantly thrown to the wolves. Something doesn’t add up. It’s just...I don’t get it.

Yes, the way he treated people was bad, but people can grow? That’s a thing humans can do. And he was a teenager, my god. No, we cannot allow our past to be an excuse for how we treat others, but we have to be aware that there is a growth process to being human. And being human in and of itself, isn’t pretty. You think Mako is problematic? Don’t get me started on your fave.

KORRA

Ok, I love this woman to death but she is ridiculously problematic. She pursued someone in a relationship and essentially forced Mako to cheat on Asami by kissing him against his will, that’s already pretty awful and shows a lack of empathy on her part, also kissing people without their consent is no bueno. But also I just have to say it for the people who might not know this. One of the fundamental reasons why Makorra didn’t work was because KORRA WAS ABUSIVE. Okay? It wasn’t just that Mako was inadequate at relationships and didn’t know how to people, it wasn’t that she was secretly confused and wanting Asami the entire time (biphobia at it’s best) one of the main problems in the pairing was that Korra was crazy abusive towards Mako. Seriously, why don’t I see this more often in those discussions??

If we need examples, I have dozens. Honestly, it’s really easy to see how terrible Korra was to Mako, I’d actually argue that she treated him worse than he treated her. I mean, they were both terrible to one another, but in Korra’s case she went through the motions of being completely infatuated with your first teenage crush, getting with said crush, then crashing and burning once you realize that you have no idea how to treat a romantic partner so after the butterflies wear off you subject them to all the wonderful aspects of your anger issues. Not only did she scream at Mako during every argument they had, she also threatened him with bodily harm if she got really angry. Remember how their relationship crashed and burned in Book 2? Here are the things that Korra did during that time. Let me reiterate, this was not okay.

Mako is visibly shaken by this!

This woman burst into her boyfriend’s place of work and violently kicked his desk out from in front of him with all his coworkers present. That is not normal behavior. That is a red flag. And after she came back, had amnesia or whatever and forgot they broke up after that scene, let’s not forget that Mako was legitimately Afraid to break up with her again. Korra made her partner frightened that they might suffer bodily harm if they upset her. Again, and I can’t stress this enough, this is not okay!

The little scene in Book 3 when Korra is lifting Mako like 100 feet off the ground with airbending while he’s screaming in fear just to make Asami laugh is cute, right? I’ll admit, I loved that little moment too, it’s one of the only instances of Korrasami development that we got, but also, there were sooo many things wrong with that scene lol. Not only does Korra terrify Mako for literally no reason, it’s also sort of just her continuing to exercise some degree of power over him for her own amusement. Almost like a subtle reminder to him saying, “I am stronger than you in every way and I can break your femur like a twig if I wanted to… but I won’t, so look how much fun we’re having!”

Now of course, there are reasons why Korra acts like this. She was isolated for almost her entire life and never learned how to treat people and be around people. The Avatar is human because they must live amongst the people they protect and that helps them develop empathy and cherish life. The White Lotus deprived her of that fundamental aspect of her duty as the Avatar and it showed throughout the beginning of the series. Clearly, she was young, didn’t see how her actions could negatively affect others and hurt the feelings of not just her partner but also friends and family (she was really awful towards a lot of people in her life!). But as the series went on, we see her having less outbursts and learning to control her temper more.

One can only assume that she does not have the same behavior with Asami because for one, I don’t think Asami would play that shit, she seems like she would electrocute a bitch in a heartbeat and not hesitate if needed, but also Korra is not the same shitty partner she used to be as a teenager. Again, kids do stupid things. Adults do stupid things. And we learn and we grow. Korra will probably make some more mistakes in her relationship with Asami. I don't think anyone can have one bad relationship and suddenly learn all the lessons they can from it and have a perfect one the next go around. I can totally picture Korra losing her temper and raising her voice at Asami if she gets frustrated and forgets who she’s dealing with. Managing anger issues is hard, I know this from experience, and it doesn’t magically get easier. Of course, if Korra does pop off, Asami would definitely put her in her place because she’s a bad bitch who doesn’t take anyone’s shit, next character.

ASAMI

You know her, you love her, you fantasize about her and you probably have her on your list of fictional characters you would totally bang if you had the chance (I know I do), yes, even your best girl is problematic. It’s interesting to me that a lot of people sympathize with Asami and very few openly criticize her (so few that I’ve never seen anyone say a bad thing about her). What’s there to criticize though? The poor girl was cheated on by Mako, had her feelings disregarded by Korra, who claimed to be her friend but pursued her then-boyfriend behind her back and then made up for it by simping for her for the rest of her life? Also her mom was murdered when she was just 6 years old, her father threatened to kill her once and physically abused her, then died right after they started repairing their relationship, essentially making her an orphan at the ripe age of 22. Suffice it to say, Asami has been through it.

So, how could she be problematic, you ask? Why, of course, through the classic Bryke technique of romance progression in storylines called Kissing People Without Their Consent

To be honest, I did gloss over this with Korra, simply because there were sooo many other issues with that woman and I just couldn’t go through every single one in as much detail but that doesn’t negate how serious this whole sneak attack kissing thing is. Sure, Asami is very emotional and lonely and sort of desperate too, (it's a little sad, really) but Mako is clearly uncomfortable and completely caught off guard by the kiss. This is also the second time this happens to him in the series! There are a couple factors that might contribute to why Asami does this and acts this way, maybe Korra’s general awfulness rubbed off on her (don’t make a dirty joke) but this is still wrong.

AND that’s...pretty much it. Kissing people without their permission is a big no no, though. Not wanting to gloss over that, but Asami really is a good person who just did a not-so-great thing. Getting burned by Mako twice probably made her a little less inclined to be as forward with anyone though, and it looks like she now takes her time and is patient in her relationship with Korra. It even seems like Asami is the only person Korra is afraid to upset, as Korra does seem more gentle and calm when around her. And who knows? Maybe Asami living a life where a majority of the time she got whatever she wanted when she wanted it might have also influenced her to be more assertive or even imposing within her relationships.

If anything, those three fools getting into relationships with each other just showed how not ready they were to be in relationships in the first place and also how not okay they were.

BOLIN

Originally I titled this as “Everyone in the Krew is problematic (except Bolin)” but then I remembered that Bolin totally kissed a woman without her consent so I deleted the shit out of that!

This asshole looks genuinely pleased with himself after essentially assaulting Ginger. Not a good look.

Sure, Bolin is baby. He will always be baby to me. But that does not erase the fact that he also actively supported a fascist dictator. Not only was the kissing without consent thing bad, but there’s also that. No matter how many times people around him warned him about the fact that he was on the wrong side of things, that he was helping someone who was putting people into concentration camps...Bolin wanted to believe the best of Kuvira. He ignored obvious signs that the woman was a dictator committing human rights violations like crazy and you know, there’s gotta be a reason for that too.

Maybe Bolin wanted to feel like he was doing something good for once. When you think about it, with his role as the comic relief in the Krew, and sort of constantly being infantilized by his older brother, I wouldn’t be surprised if the man developed some insecurity in his ability to do anything good or useful for anyone without screwing it up in some way. In Kuvira’s army, it seemed like he was actually taken seriously, he felt like he was doing something that mattered. Korra had being the Avatar, Asami had her business and mindblowing philanthropy (honestly, her ability to be as charitable as she is profitable is insane) and Mako had his police work (ACAB, tho). Bolin had...the role of being a joke. A superficial actor. A former pro-bending meathead.

Bolin lived his entire life following after his brother that once they were adults and Mako finally decided to live his own life for once, it left Bolin completely lost. And lost young men are perfect recruits for fascists.

So, in conclusion, my whole reasoning behind destroying the integrity of my favorite characters is to prove a huge point. All of these characters are problematic. They have flaws, some bigger than others (looking at you, Korra. Just...wow), but ultimately, even if your fave is problematic... that’s okay. A lot of people, mostly younger people it seems, are really obsessed with being right about everything that they do and stan. And that’s a wonderful thing, so much change has come about by the younger generations calling out people who do fucked up shit, don’t want or try to improve, and get away with it. But it’s also caused a lot of people to be unforgiving and completely unwilling to acknowledge when people do improve and try to be better.

Personally, I love my problematic Krew because having issues that you’re constantly working on internally is human. It’s human to make mistakes, it’s human to grow from those mistakes. And it’s inspiring to me, who is wholly imperfect, to see myself reflected in fictional characters who aren’t perpetuating unrealistic ideals of human nature, characters who are messy, crazy and ultimately human.

As one of my favorite manga artists and queen of impeccable character creation Rumiko Takahashi once said:

“I think that perfect people are not very interesting.”

And I will always wholeheartedly agree.

[popculty]

Queer as Folk Horror: A Two-Part Crossover Podcast Episode

We really put the ‘cult’ in Popculty with this one... 👑🐻🔥😶

In a very special crossover episode, Carver Casey of the Spooky & Gay podcast joins me to slice and dice our favorite (and not-so-favorite) horror movies. We talk queer horror classics, the genre as allegory, and turn a queer lens on some A24 faves to answer the burning (heh) questions:

Ari Aster: Auteur or just another white guy? (Maybe both?)

Is Midsommar actually good, or is Florence Pugh just INCREDIBLE? (Maybe both!)

Hereditary: Transmasculine allegory or transphobic trash? (Maybe...just the latter.)

🎧 Listen to Part 1 now, and follow The Popculty Podcast to get Part 2 as soon as it drops!

Part 1 transcript below 👇

SJ: [sings] Spooky and gay, spooky and gay, spooky and gay, with Carver and SJ! [normal voice] Hey, Carver!

Carver Casey: [laughs] Hi! How are you, SJ?

SJ: I'm super excited to do this crossover episode! I don't think either of us have done one on our respective shows, right?

Carver: Absolutely, this is our first crossover.

SJ: And also, I was just realizing, this will be the first episode that's, like, all trans... And that makes me really happy. [both laugh] Listeners, you are in for a treat, because you will hear no cis-splaining in this episode.

Carver: It's a guarantee.

SJ: It's just going to be us awesome non-binary folks talking about horror movies! Which is not something that I typically talk about on my podcast, although you certainly do on yours. Do you want to introduce yourself to the Popculty audience?

Carver: I'm Carver Casey. I am one-half of the Spooky & Gay with Carver & Jay podcast, where ALL we talk about is horror. [laughs]

SJ: It's great. I love the title.

Carver: Thank you, thank you.

SJ: And I really enjoy the podcast. I would say it's gotten me interested in horror again, honestly. Horror is not really a genre that I pay a lot of attention to. It's in the periphery, and I'll go see, you know, your Get Out, your Jennifer's Body, love that kind of stuff. But it has to really permeate the mainstream, or what people are talking about, for me to really want to see a horror movie. But yeah, I would say your podcast kind of got me interested in it again and looking at it from a different perspective. So that's been fun.

Carver: I'm so glad to hear that. I think that's definitely one of the things that Jay and I wanted to do coming into this. Queer folks are often excluded from these communities. And there is a thriving and interesting and vibrant queer horror community that I love sharing with other people. I was gonna say, we have also been loving your podcast. I caught up on the Black Widow episode, which threw me on a whole Florence Pugh kick--

SJ: [excitedly] Oh!

Carver: I had my roommate watching Fighting With My Family--

SJ: Yas!

Carver: We're on a whole professional wrestling kick at my house now. [laughs]

SJ: All right! And I am responsible... [sighs dramatically] I feel honored. [Carver laughs] That is awesome to hear, because I am very much on my own Florence Pugh kick, which is actually why I really wanted to talk about Midsommar. Like 80% of it is because of Florence Pugh. [both laugh] So I'm really glad we're on the same page there--

Carver: Yes.

SJ: --because I am going to geek out about her so much when we get to Midsommar.

Carver: Glad to hear it.

SJ: So for Spooky & Gay listeners, I am SJ. I host the Popculty Podcast, which is pop culture with a 'y', both in spelling and in mission, where we highlight the stories being told by and about women, LGBTQ+ folks, people of color and those with disabilities. I thought we could just start off by talking a little bit more about our own personal relationships with horror. Do you want to tell us about your horror journey? How did you get into it, what's appealing to you, what's your history with it?

Carver: I come from a horror family. From as long as I can remember-- Like, the first movie that I have any memory of seeing any part of is Rocky Horror Picture Show. When Frank-N-Furter pulls the tablecloth off, and you know that they're eating Eddie for dinner, that's literally the first image of film that I have a memory of. I would be the kid sitting on the couch with a blanket pulled over my head, crying, so afraid of what I could see through my fingers on the TV, which was literally next to nothing. And as I got older, and I had the opportunity to sort of catch these films and see myself in them, as a queer person, as a closeted, egg-uncracked trans person, seeing people facing odds and being really beat down upon by these forces that were out of their control, I could see myself overcoming them, because I saw these characters overcoming these unimaginable things. You know, all I have to do is go to high school; this person is fighting a dream demon! Like, I don't have to do that. [laughs]

SJ: I love that. I love that horror films were like an escape for you, and also, I think the way you put it last time we talked was, "an exercise in being brave."

Carver: It absolutely is. You know, you see these things, and you're volunteering to have something larger than life, something oppressive, and interact with it. You can turn it off at any time. You don't have to interact, you can stop, you can not put it on. And so, by putting it on, sitting through, confronting this thing that you're afraid of, it gives you the wherewithal to be able to do that when you're encountering things you're afraid of in your real life.

SJ: That's such an interesting way to look at it. You literally have control over it-- you have *remote control*--

Carver: Mm-hmm!

SJ: --over a horror movie. And that can help you kind of prime yourself for those experiences in real life, which yeah, as queer people, as trans people, we are much more likely to encounter in the real world. I love that framing.

Carver: I know you said that this is usually a genre that you don't break into very often. Were there ever any standouts for you, throughout your life? And maybe some of those that you've revisited that you're like, 'Oh, this has a whole new meaning to me now'?

SJ: Yeah, actually, it's funny you ask, because just this past week, in thinking about our conversation and preparing for it, I was just thinking about my history with horror... Like I say, I didn't grow up with it. The extent of my exposure to the genre was one time, one of my uncle's put on a Chucky movie and scared the shit out of me, and I had nightmares forever, because I was too young. [laughs] I know you really love Chucky, and that's actually apparently a very queer TV series now. Love that evolution for Chucky. But, I mean, that just terrified me as a child, and I really avoided it for many years. I would go long periods throughout my life without watching any horror movies. I just never really felt compelled to scare myself like that. And I already have an anxiety disorder. Honestly, my brain is scary enough, and I just didn't feel the need to, like, add onto that shit-pile. [laughs drily] And so yeah, I just kind of avoided it for a while. But over the years, I have dipped my toe in more and more, and I've found that I don't scare easily at all anymore-- it takes a lot to scare me-- but I tend to go for the socially-conscious stuff, or horror comedy, that kind of thing. If I'm going to dip my toe in it at all, it kind of has to have a purpose. I hate slash-y, gory, just for gore's sake, kind of stuff.

Carver: Yeah.

SJ: The first time I had a real appreciation for horror was in college, I audited a couple of Film night-courses. One of them was looking at horror as it was used in various social justice movements, which was really, really interesting. And that was the first time that I had an actual appreciation for horror. Before that, I just thought it was base, not for me, just blood and guts, and didn't have much meaning, right? But in this class, we looked at Night of the Living Dead, you know, and how that is such a great race allegory. And we looked at Freaks-- that movie from, I want to say, the 1930s-- which critiques how people with disabilities were looked at by society. And then we did a unit on gender and sexuality, and the movie we watched for that was High Tension. Do you know this movie?

Carver: Yeah, I know High Tension. I haven't watched it yet--

SJ: [excitedly] Ohhh!

Carver: --I'm saving it for a very special day for myself. But I do know the plot, I know what happens. Spoilers don't ruin a movie for me, ever.

SJ: For listeners who don't know, this is a 2003 French slasher movie. It kind of made waves at the time it came out. It's pretty well known...

Carver: It defines a genre, French Extremity.

SJ: There you go. So, you know how it ends? Okay, I'm not going to fully spoil it for our listeners, just in case they want to go in blind. But when I watched this movie for the first time in that college class, I wasn't sure what I was watching, and I was not beginning to interrogate my gender at that point. So it kind of went over my head as just a slasher movie. I rewatched it last week, and it really hit me in a way that it didn't hit me on my first watch. And I feel like I appreciate it much better knowing the ending, because everything clicks into place. And also watching it from a trans perspective, it's just-- For me, High Tension is probably... I mean, you asked what horror movies have ever resonated with me? I would say, this, for me, is like, the pinnacle of queer transmasculine allegory and exploration. And the whole time I was rewatching it this past week, I was just like, 'Oh my god.' Baby-me had no idea, but now, I'm just so glad this movie exists. And I do think that knowing how it ends will actually give you a better experience of it. So I'm really excited for you to watch this eventually, one day. I think it's a really interesting movie. It is gory-- It's a slasher movie, there's some fucked-up stuff in it, for sure. But wow, I...

Carver: We nearly covered it last Valentine's Day on Spooky & Gay...

SJ: Ugh!

Carver: This close.

SJ: You gotta let me know when you watch it, and when you do that episode, 'cause...

Carver: Would love to hear what you have to say on it.

SJ: Maybe that could be our next crossover episode. [laughs]

Carver: Absolutely. [laughs]

SJ: That'd be so good! That'd be so good. Yeah, so that's my horror journey. And that's the big movie that comes to mind for me.

Carver: I find it really interesting that that particular movie is one that got to you, just knowing that it is such a violent, gory movie, that many people did write off as being just a blood-and-guts movie. That's a lot of what people said about it, and so I love that it was able to speak to your own personal experience in a way that was really...touching, right?

SJ: Yeah, it surprised me, to be honest. Because it's the exact opposite of the kind of movie that I look for. I hate violent deaths and cruelty just to be, you know, a shock factor. I hate that kind of stuff, and this definitely falls within that category. But-- the main character, the whole time, is wrestling with her gender identity and sexuality in a way that makes that violence necessary. You know, so I say, I don't appreciate horror for horror's sake, necessarily. But I like when there's some greater value or meaning, and for me, I found that this time around. I can totally see how a lot of people-- like, I would say, straight, cis people-- probably would just watch this movie and be like, “I have no idea, it's just a fun slasher movie.” But I think for queer viewers it means a whole lot more. And I'm just, like, grateful it's out there.

Carver: Absolutely. When I was in college, I had an art history class where the teacher said something along the lines of, “you can see what each generation is afraid of by watching their horror movies.” Horror has always been an allegory, just like you mentioned, Night of the Living Dead-- The day that movie was wrapped, George Romero had the film in the trunk of his car, and over the radio, he heard that Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated. And he just knew what he had, and what they were ready for. And many people weren't ready for it - He got a lot of criticism for casting the actors he did. And he always said that [that actor] was the best person who showed up. This role wasn't written for a man of color, and almost all of the lines were rewritten by that actor. He was like, "I'm not going to play someone who's uneducated. I'm not going to play someone who's vulgar. Because I'm neither of those things. And I'm not going to represent myself this way." And the reason that that character has so much power is because these people were able to come together and use the little bit of platform they had to get their message across. And I love that that's always been happening.

SJ: Exactly. Horror has always been an allegory, you know, not just from the beginning of cinema, but really, from the beginning of the genre itself. If we go back to one of the original examples of horror literature, Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein as an allegory about her own grief over losing her child. And I think that's what we miss, if we just write the whole genre off as, "it's slashers, it's blood and gore, it's haunted houses. That's not for me." I really would encourage people to give it a second look, and to realize that throughout history, the horror genre, just like any film or television, has its purpose in the current cultural moment.

Carver: Yeah. I don't think that the horror genre is for every person, but I think there is a horror movie that every person would resonate with.

SJ: Sure.

Carver: And that may be something like Get Out or Midsommar, or these things that are able, like you said, to really punch through the cultural zeitgeist. But it may also be... Well, a movie that I personally really love is All Cheerleaders Die.

SJ: I've heard of it...

Carver: It's very silly, but it's just like, a girl gets revenge for a friend's assault, and then her and all the people she associates with are murdered and brought back by her ex-lover, to really get revenge on the people who deserve it. It's campy, it's silly, it's like the horror version of But I'm A Cheerleader. I just feel that from it so much.

SJ: Interesting.

Carver: It's just a little low-budget, most people haven't seen outside of this community, movie. And there's one for everybody. [laughs]

SJ: I agree, I agree. And I think Get Out kind of proved that to a lot of people. Like, everyone saw Get Out, even people who would normally never go to see a horror movie in the theaters. Because it had something to say, and it said it very effectively. Yeah, I think there is a horror movie for everyone, whether they know it or not. I think that's a good take. Would you say [All Cheerleaders Die] is sort of your queer horror touchstone, or is there something else that really resonates with you?

Carver: Seed of Chucky is a movie that I saw the week it came out, waited, anticipated as a teenager. I was so ready for it, and I didn't understand for years why people hated it. I thought it was funny, it has John Waters in it, it's disgusting potty humor, like all the other things that were coming out at that time. But there's also this character who is struggling with their gender. They're a doll, they don't have anything, anatomically, to give them a direction on gender to go, so all they have is the ability to speculate. And when they're asked to put themselves in one category or the other, they say, "Can I be both?" And a doll says, "Well, some people..." And that tiny line in this terrible, low-budget, filmed-in-Ukraine-for-tax-purposes movie just lived in my head forever. Just that "Well, some people" line stuck with me. Every time I was like, 'Well, I don't feel right in this body...' 'Well, some people don't feel at home in their bodies.' And so, anytime I had this question, or I wanted to invalidate myself, I just had this little thing that could pop in my head and be like, 'Well, you know, some people do feel this way.'

SJ: Yeah.

Carver: And it lived with me forever. And I'm so glad that people are finally giving it that credit, because I know, at least I hadn't been exposed to a genderqueer representation before that. And yeah-- it just so happens to be a doll whose name is Shithead. [laughs]

SJ: Hey, sometimes it comes from the most unexpected places.

Carver: Yeah! [laughs]

SJ: We never know where representation will find us. [both laugh] That's great. I can totally see that. I can see how that would really stay with you, and just give you that nugget of validation for what you were feeling. Because so few movies at the time would have even had that tiny line. I can't think of any movies or TV that even acknowledged a nonbinary existence, prior to, I would say, a couple of years ago, honestly.

Carver: Absolutely. And you know, this was, I think, 2008/2009... Maybe 2007?

SJ: Wow.

Carver: Pre-2010 for sure.

SJ: I mean, that's early. That's early in the game.

Carver: Absolutely. And I think that can be wholly attributed to the fact that the creator of that story is a gay man, is someone who is in the community. And he saw an opportunity to bring just a tiny bit of information, even if it's mostly played as a joke. And I believe he had one of the first out gay characters in a horror movie, in his movie that came out right before that, Bride of Chucky.

SJ: Yeah, the person who's creating the film or show that we're seeing is so important. And that's why I talk about a lot on my show, who is behind the thing that we're watching, right? Because contrary to what fucking Matt Damon told Effie Brown on that season of Project Greenlight... [Carver chuckles]... diversity is not something that just happens in front of the camera; It also happens behind the camera. The person who is telling the story brings their own biases, their own prejudices, their own perspectives and lived experiences, to create the thing they're showing you. So everything is filtered through them, and when we're only getting to see things filtered through heteronormativity and cisgender people and men, that's so narrow! So it does mean something-- it means a lot-- when you have anyone from outside that perspective who gets to tell a story. And yeah, I think for sure the fact that he's a gay man had a huge amount to do with that - He was embedded within the community, he had probably met people who were nonbinary, and then he put that into the story, and look how much it helped you. Right? Like, that's an incredible cycle. That's incredible. And it never would have happened if he was not a gay man with this slightly different life experience to offer.

Carver: Absolutely. And I know in hindsight now, it wasn't just me. There were so many people who hung onto that representation for years, that now it is a cult classic. It gets played every Pride month at some dingy theater.

SJ: Wow.

Carver: It seems like a low-budget genre film, but every low-budget genre film has been the thing that kept somebody from taking a step off the bridge, you know?

SJ: Yeah. Yeah.

In the new ‘Chucky’ Syfy TV series, non-binary actor Lachlan Watson portrays the character Glen(da) from the original film.

SJ: Speaking of...

Carver: Taking a step? [chuckles]

SJ: Well...There is that. [chuckles] There is that, and we will get there. But no, I was gonna say, speaking of filmmakers and the importance of who is telling the story-- I have to confess that I feel a little guilty for choosing the movies that we are about to talk about today. [Carver laughs] It feels so off-brand for me. I never talk about straight white guys on my show - I'm not interested, they do nothing for me, their stories don't connect with me. And to be honest, Ari Aster is not an exception. I don't particularly care for him as a person, from all the research and interviews I've read. He just seems like just another pretentious fucking white guy. His success story is still very much a privileged one - He basically came out of nowhere and just *zooped* right to the top. And he just gets to make whatever the fuck he wants, handed a blank check to write and direct his vanity projects... I can't even think of a female director who has ever gotten that chance. I mean, he's on his third movie in a row, within the span of four years, that he is writing and directing, with studios saying, "Make whatever you want! You're Ari Aster, you're the auteur!" I can't think of a single female filmmaker, especially within the horror genre, who has gotten a chance to do that, can you?

Carver: Not really, no. Besides the woman who directed the Fear Street movies...

SJ: Okay.

Carver: She got to do all three, and she did those films back-to-back-to-back. But that was last year, you know? And they did not want her to direct all three - They actually only wanted her to direct two of those. And the male director they had for the third one wasn't available, so they let her do all three.

SJ: [scoffs] So when it does happen, women are only the second choice, never the first.

Carver: Yeah. [laughs drily]

SJ: Yeah, so, you know, I definitely come to this discussion a little frustrated with myself for brainstorming an entire list of incredible women-directed horror movies, and then at the last minute, going with a basic dude. But-- You know, it's an opportunity to do the flip-side of what I normally do. Normally, I highlight women directors and writers, and celebrate all the good that they do. The flip-side of that coin is to critique the things that we don't like so much. I have reasons for choosing these movies. Midsommar was the one that I first came to you and was like, "Do you want to talk about this?" And I have reasons for that, which we will get into. And we're definitely going to be offering some criticisms. But yeah, I just wanted to preface this discussion with that acknowledgement, that this is very much not in my typical wheelhouse.

Carver: Well, that's great, because if there's one thing I'm known for, it is making A24 fans mad, so... [chuckles]

SJ: Oh! Perfect. This is going to be that. [laughs]

Carver: Excellent. Something that we do on our show is we talk about horror movies in general. What makes them queer horror, and what makes us queer horror, is that we're queer people, and we're filtering our opinions through our lens. So we talk about lots of movies that most straight audiences are going to go to and not see most of the things we're seeing. But we can filter that through the experience of someone who has lived a different life than the movie was marketed for, than it was made for, and really flesh out what everyone else is seeing about it.

SJ: Absolutely. That is totally what I would like to do. Because everyone has seen these movies-- Mainstream audiences have seen these movies, and they have already come away with whatever opinions and experiences they've formed. But this really is, like you say, an opportunity for us to share our-- I think, going to be very different-- experiences of both of these movies, coming at it through a trans and queer lens. I think it is a valuable thing to do, to offer people a completely different take than the one they probably have. With that said, let's go ahead and dive in. So Ari Aster's first feature film, Hereditary, was released in 2018. Probably everyone listening to this has seen it, if they're going to see it. I don't really feel the need to do too much of a summary, other than maybe just a brief synopsis... I think you're probably better at those than I am, so I'll let you take this.

Carver: A family dealing with the grief of losing their eldest matriarch soon compound that grief with the loss of the granddaughter, Annie--

SJ: Oh, wait-- Charlie, right?

Carver: Oh! Charlie, yes. Annie is the mother. And so the film is really learning the truth behind the lies-- the lives-- of both the matriarch and Charlie. And maybe that involves some cult-y stuff. [laughs]

SJ: Yes. [laughs] Definitely involves some cult-y stuff. That was good! That was a really good synopsis.

Carver: Thank you!

SJ: We could print that.

Carver: [laughs heartily]

SJ: So that is Hereditary. Trigger warnings for this movie, I would say, are substantial - Suicide, decapitation, and self-harm... Those are the big ones I can think of, can you think of any others?

Carver: If you are especially sensitive to family dysfunction, this would be a very hard watch.

SJ: True. So, how do you feel about Hereditary?

Carver: I think calling Ari Aster an auteur is completely valid. These are incredibly well-made movies. The shots are intentional, the lighting is intentional. There are these wonderful elements that I think introduced a lot of people who are used to going to the movies and just having a good time, to sitting down and thinking more critically about what they're watching. And that is the credit that I will give him. [laughs]

SJ: Sure. I'll cosign, yeah.

Carver: But the thing with these films is that I sometimes feel like Ari Aster has his message, and then the movies have their own.

SJ: Yes.

Carver: And looking at them independently, it's kind of like if you're looking at a piece of artwork-- like a painting or a physical, unchanging artwork-- and then there's a three-page artist statement towards the side of it. You may read all of that and get the full intention behind it, or you may sit there and look at it, and feel what you feel about it. So that's what I'm doing with Hereditary. I had shared an article with you about people seeing themselves in Charlie.

SJ: Yeah.

Carver: And... it's very easy to see Charlie's character as a trans allegory. But I think that it contributes to one of the ways that trans people are depicted in horror. There are two main ways, in my opinion-- As either the villain and the monster and the thing you're supposed to be afraid of. And then there is the fear of the transition, the body changing, and what it takes to want to change a body. And I think that, in many ways, it is easier for trans people to see themselves in those narratives, but I think they're equally as harmful, because it's showing the actualization of a trans person living in the body they want to as a horror. And I don't love that parallel, as far as representation goes.

SJ: I... actually, am with you 100% on this. And I'm really relieved, because when you sent me that article... I don't know, I just kind of assumed that you really liked Hereditary, and I didn't want to have to fight you on this! [both laugh] But we are 100% on the same page. The article we're referencing, I will put in the show notes. It's an article from Them...

Carver: Yeah, Them.us.

SJ: They're a queer online outlet that I really like (usually). So they had an article written by Sasha Geffen, on how Hereditary is this trans masculine allegory. So I read that article, and I was like, "Huh. Do I need to rewatch Hereditary? Because I don't remember any of this." I mean, I watched Hereditary when it first came out, and honestly, it did nothing for me. I think it's very well-made - Like you say, the shots are very intentional. But I rewatched it after I read the article, and then I read the article again, and I was just like, "I see what you're saying, but I just have to blatantly disagree." I think, like you say, it's easy to see the trans allegory, but I hate the implications, right? Because I do think it plays into what you're talking about, and even what Geffen references themselves - This history, particularly within the horror genre, of having villains and monsters be trans people. We see this in Psycho, we see this in Silence of the Lambs with Buffalo Bill, right? There's this long history, and I just feel like this movie is playing into that. I don't think it's offering anything different or new.

So many of the things Geffen has to say about the trans masc experience are relatable - Their criticism of the Atlantic piece, that they're comparing Hereditary to, is spot-on. They're basically taking apart ROGD, the "rapid onset gender dysphoria" nonsense. So I think a lot of things Geffen is saying are totally valid. This one paragraph-- I'll just read it, because wow, I have a lot of feelings about it. [both laugh] They write, "Hereditary's transition allegory involves not only the violent death of a girl, but also the torture and eventual evacuation of a cis male body. Charlie does not merely change, but steals something that belongs to a man. That Charlie's transition requires so much physical violence speaks to a lingering anxiety among many cis people that transition is, at best, a form of mutilation, and at worst, a kind of death - a sloughing of one body in exchange for a new, different one. A girl dies so a boy can live as a boy. The impulse to transition is often interpreted as a form of self-destructive madness. And, in the case of trans masculine people, it can be read as a flocking to power - a magnetic pull away from the subjugated gender toward the one in control." Whoo! [both chuckle] There's a lot to unpack there. I think that reading of how cis people view the trans masculine transition is, unfortunately, more or less accurate-- as wrongheaded and reductive and harmful as that view is. You know, that's not the truth. That's not in any way our lived reality. But at the same time, I think the movie is just reinforcing those super transphobic, cisgender views. I don't think it's challenging them at all.

Carver: I absolutely agree. A movie that keeps coming to mind for me, as far as trans representation with this, is another movie where the character themselves never say they're trans. I don't know if you're familiar with Sleepaway Camp--

SJ: No...

Carver: --but it's a very controversial movie. It's a slasher, definitely not your thing. But to me, it's a queer classic. It is about a little girl who goes to summer camp, and all the people who bully her, or try to do bad things to her, start dying. It's sort of a whodunnit, and then at the end of the movie... And I want to say, this came out in the 1980s, 1970s... It's very old. And the crux of the movie is that... Gosh, this is hard to explain in a way trying not to be spoiler-y...

SJ: It's okay. I would say, spoil away if it takes the spoil to make the point.

Carver: So, in Sleepaway Camp, the ending of the movie is when you find out who has done it, it's Angela. And Angela is on the beach with the head of the boy who has been flirting with her on her lap. She stands up, covered in blood, his decapitated head falls from her lap, and she has a penis.

SJ: Hm!

Carver: And many, many people-- And it's a completely valid argument, to read this as transphobic.

SJ: Sure.

Carver: And I think the intentions around it were transphobic. But I saw this movie first when I was coming into my gender identity, and personally-- Angela never says that she's trans, and isn't given the choice to live as a woman. She and her twin sister were in an accident, where her sister died, and Angela was put in a house where the matriarch said, "I already have a boy. Angela is such a beautiful name." And so, I read that movie, at least, as the horrors of being forced to live as a gender you don't identify as, and the fear of keeping up with that...lie, you know?

SJ: Mm-hmm.

Carver: And so, when I think about the way I have to twist my mind around Charlie being trans... Charlie never says that she is trans.

SJ: Right.

Carver: Charlie didn't put Paimon in their body. It was all choices made by other people. And so I have a really hard time warping that idea into Charlie being trans. And when I do, I don't feel good about it.

SJ: Agreed. Absolutely agreed. Yeah, that's really the same way I feel. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Charlie is trans, to be honest. Because the thing that Geffen quotes as proof of that is when Charlie says, "Grandma wanted me to be a boy." Well, okay, that's not saying that *she* wants to be a boy. But this reviewer kind of takes that and runs with it as 'Charlie feels trans,' and I just don't necessarily see that for her. And then also, throughout this piece, they keep conflating and interchanging the names 'Charlie' and 'Paimon'. Paimon is the demon that is trying to possess a male body and doesn't want Charlie's female body, and so eventually-- Yeah, we're gonna spoil this movie. [both laugh] Y'all have seen it. So, Paimon is the demon, but Geffen keeps conflating Charlie with Paimon. And not only is that confusing the message, where I'm like, "Well, okay, so are you saying the demon is trans, or Charlie is?" But if you do conflate Charlie with Paimon, then you are *literally* saying that this trans person is a demon, which-- harken back to our previous argument! [both laugh] Trans people don't need to be vilified or demonized on screen any more than they already have been, historically, throughout film and throughout the entire genre of horror. And I just feel like, kind of any way you slice it, if you want to read a trans allegory into this movie, I hate what it has to say. I think it's just playing into that really tired, damaging, transphobic trope.

Carver: Absolutely, I agree with you.

SJ: And I think what would have made it feel different, what would have made me able to see Geffen's argument, is if we had at any point been invited or encouraged to empathize with Charlie. But we are never allowed to do that. I mean, she is weird, and creepy, and evil, and snipping the heads off birds for the whole 30 minutes that she’s on screen, and then she is gruesomely decapitated. We are never offered the chance to empathize or connect with her.

Carver: I think, as well, not only are we the audience not ever empathizing with Charlie, but none of the other characters seem to be either. Every relationship-- besides possibly the relationship with the grandmother, which we're never shown-- is very much at arm's length. It's the mother using her as a pawn to keep the son from drinking, but not considering, 'Does a 13-year-old want to be at a party with drinking and teenagers and unfamiliarity?' None of the characters have empathy for her until she's gone, and then they want to talk about how hurt they are. But they weren't giving her the time and attention when she was there.

SJ: Right. So how is that doing anything other than further othering trans people, if we are to infer that Charlie is trans, you know what I mean?

Carver: Especially the way the movie was marketed, where it was *only* this character and only the odd sounds that she makes. They hinged so much of the interest of this movie on this character that it seemed, frankly, uninterested in.

SJ: Very much so. And there's also possibly an element of ableism going on here... I wasn't able to fully confirm this one way or another, so I wondered if you might have some behind-the-scenes info that I don't. But Milly Shapiro, who plays Charlie, has a rare disability called cleidocranial dysplasia, which gives her kind of a unique look. And I'm wondering if there's a sort of ableism that came into the casting of this character. Because another thing that Ari Aster tends to do, for no reason and kind of randomly, he will insert these characters with some sort of facial deformity. And it doesn't seem to be for any purpose other than to unsettle us. It's just like an image of what he thinks is the grotesque, to lend more of a sinister, unsettling atmosphere. I don't know if you have any more background information, but the film seems to use lighting, makeup (or lack thereof), camera angles, and directing of her posture to emphasize her facial differences. Because if you see pictures of Milly Shapiro in real life, they're much more emphasized in this film than they are in real life. There's even possibly some prosthetics going on... If that is the case, I find that pretty troubling.

Milly Shapiro / Charlie

Carver: So, the information I have is that I follow Milly Shapiro on TikTok...

SJ: Oh, nice!

Carver: ...and she has said that they did use some facial prosthetics to accentuate it.

SJ: Oh, boy... Well, that's not great. To be clear, it's not a problem to cast a person with a disability, or who has facial disfigurements or burns, or anything like that. It's a problem to cast them and then enhance those differences, in order to make them appear more "monstrous." Charlie, as you said, was very much marketed as the creepy, evil entity in this movie. So that's why it's problematic.

Carver: Yes.

SJ: I'm so glad you have the insider scoop!

Carver: She also actually spoke *today* about how because of Hereditary, she was bullied mercilessly throughout the rest of her high school career, because she was "the ugly girl" from Hereditary.

SJ: Oh my god!

Carver: As far as I know, she does some acting now, but she's focusing more on her music. I actually believe they use they/them pronouns...

SJ: Oh, okay.

Carver: I can't remember, but I believe maybe both... Certainly 'they' somewhere in there.

SJ: Awesome. Okay, thanks for the heads-up. I just Googled it, and it says, "Milly Shapiro identifies as a lesbian and uses she/they pronouns." Okay, cool. Good to know. Wow, I had no idea about that background, but that's horrible to hear. And that sort of confirms my worst suspicions, that they did use prosthetics, and that had the exact real-world consequences for Milly Shapiro as one would expect. Again, to me, that's ableism, and that is Ari Aster, who now has this pattern-- because it shows up in Midsommar too-- of using these images of people with deformities or disabilities, or, in Midsommar... Well, actually, in both Hereditary and Midsommar, the aging female body he also thinks is disgusting, apparently.

Carver: [with distaste] Yeah.

SJ: You know, it just keeps showing up. And I really have a problem with what he thinks is "the grotesque," and the way that he uses it, and the way he enhances it for maximum shock value. Especially with this new information, I really hate the way that character was portrayed, and how that disability was played up, because that's just another way of othering them. And it really does not lend any credence to this Them article-- you know, to their thesis.

Carver: Yeah. [chuckles]

SJ: Wow. That just sort of cements it for me. That character, to me, is a combination of transphobia and ableism.

Carver: Yeah.

SJ: [sighs] I don't like it at all.

Carver: I think when you think about what we were saying earlier, about horror being a mirror of what people are afraid of at the time-- 2018 is the year after [with disgust] *the man* was elected... [SJ gives a humorless chuckle] ...and there was a constant bombardment against trans people and universal health care. And I think there is a way to see this movie as, yes, it is about grief and family, but it's also, in a larger cultural context, about being afraid of what the youth are going to accomplish, and what the youth's needs are. Because it is very much the older generation against the younger generation, and then the younger generation growing up and using those same tools to attack their children.

SJ: That's a really interesting lens to look at it through. I hadn't really thought about that. I just have to say one last thing about this article. The last line of it is, [dramatically] "Aster's fable understands just how deep gender goes." [regular voice] And I just have to say, absolutely not! As someone who has listened to and read more interviews with this man than I wish I had, [both laugh] Ari Aster is not a man who has put any time or thought into his own gender. This is not someone who set out to make a trans allegory, I'm sorry. I think it's basically an accident, and I don't think he put any sincere thought or empathy into this movie as a trans allegory. I don't think he is someone who understands gender at all. I mean, this is the guy who once said, "My method of writing women is just to put myself in them.” [Carver chortles] Are you kidding me? Like, this is not a man who knows how to write any gender other than his own. And I just think Geffen is giving him way too much credit. To me, this film is the embodiment of really the basest transphobic fears of the male cishet mind. And I think to give him more credit than that is just-- overly generous, to say the least.

Carver: This is my second watch of both these movies, and this time around I'm like, "These movies just *barely* pass the Bechdel Test."

SJ: Yeah. [scoff/laugh]

Carver: And I think they do because Ari Aster knew they had to.

SJ: Right.

Carver: Like, I'm sure there is an early draft of this where they didn't, and he was like, "I gotta give this person speaking lines, so they can talk to each other!"

SJ: A hundred percent! I guarantee you the first draft of both of these movies was genuine trash. And I guarantee you that he got some notes and had to rewrite the hell out of it. But even so, my other huge problem with this movie is that it is *so* white. There is not a single character of color in this movie. And I can't remember the last time I saw that in film. Like, this is 2018-- this is just a couple years ago-- and there was no consideration that we are only showing white people on screen here? And if you look behind the camera, it's the same shit. I went on IMDb, I'm combing through the profile pics, and it's just white guy after white guy. So that, to me, is a real problem. That's a huge red flag. Because what movie, post-2000, is this white?? Truly!

Carver: And I think when you think about race in Midsommar, it becomes even more problematic.

SJ: Whoo! Oh yes, indeed. [both laugh] I can't wait to talk about that.

Carver: Especially the world that Hereditary is in... Were there even people of color in the support group meeting that Annie went to?

SJ: Maybe, but they didn't have any lines.

Carver: Exactly.

SJ: If they exist, they're just so background that it didn't even register.

Carver: Obviously I don't know Ari Aster-- I can't say this with any certainty-- but I think it really reads as someone who is like, "I'm just not going to put people of color in this, because if I do it wrong, I'm gonna get in trouble."

SJ: [exasperated sigh] Yeah.

Carver: And it's like, do the work to put a good representation out there, instead of just being like, [whiny voice] "I'm scared I'm gonna get in trouble, so I'm just not gonna." [laughs]

SJ: It really does read that way. And you can tell he probably got called out a little bit for the whiteness of this movie, because, oh, there's one Black person in Midsommar! So we got that box checked. [exasperated sigh]

Carver: Yeah.

SJ: No, it's really glaring. This movie was co-edited by a woman, Jennifer Lame, but other than that, it's all-male below the line. So this makes a lot of sense, all the issues I have with this movie... There is a direct line between what shows up on the screen and what is happening behind the scenes. And I really believe that when you have a more diverse lineup below the line, behind the camera, that comes through in front of the camera. But here, it's just homogeny going both ways, and I think that's a big part of what makes this movie so blah for me, and even problematic. Because you don't have *anyone* with a slightly different perspective who's contributing. And then I also have to critique-- because we just came off on Popculty doing this mental health series, and we're talking about depictions of mental illness in TV and film... Guess which genre has the worst track record with this, by the way? [laughs]

Carver: Mm-hmm.

SJ: Yeah, so we talked about that. And this movie just perpetuates a lot of the harmful tropes you see over and over in media - The support group is not shown to be effective in doing anything other than facilitating Anne Dowd's character to weasel her way into Annie's life; Annie tells the support group that she has a history of mental illness in her family, like DID and schizophrenia, but then we learn in the end that that was actually attempted or successful demonic possession. That's not helpful for people with mental illness to see, and it also further others and vilifies people with mental illness by conflating demonic possession with things like schizophrenia. That's the exact type of thing that I talked to Megan in that mental health episode about, that we don't want to see anymore.

Carver: That's such a major thing in horror, specifically in the Exorcist/possession sub-genre, which is a genre that I really enjoy, usually. But it's something that I can't enjoy without really noticing the way that it vilifies these people. There's the one side of the coin that sees them as evil, or that they have evil inside of them. And there's the side of the coin that I tend to be on, where oftentimes what is being done to them is awful and beyond their control, and maybe inside of them, but isn't necessarily part of them. And as someone who has struggled with mental health, I relate often to those characters. But I can do that and still see how completely damning that could be for people who aren't seeing it from my perspective.

SJ: Horror has a lot to make up for-- I'll just say that-- when it comes to its mental health portrayal.

Carver: Mm-hmm.

SJ: To wrap things up with this movie on a slightly more positive note, I will say that Toni Collette's dinner table rant-- That is pretty iconic, for a reason. [both laugh]

Carver: Yes.

SJ: I think it also addresses the guilt and blame that happens within families, when one member is responsible in some way for another's death, or feels responsible. Ooh, that scene really encapsulates that blame/guilt dynamic she has with her son. You do feel that tension throughout the film, and I think that is really effective.

Peter: [mumbling] Just seems like there might be something you want to say.

Father: [warningly] Peter...

Annie: [calmly] Like what? I mean, why would I want to say something, so I can watch you sneer at me?

Peter: [more clearly] *Sneer* at you? I don't ever sneer at y--

Annie: [chuckles mirthlessly] O-ho, sweetie, you don't have to, you get your point across.

Peter: Okay, so, fine. Say what you want to say, then. [Annie gives an exasperated sigh]

Father: [more firmly] Peter.

Annie: I don't want to say anything. I've tried saying--

Peter: [slightly louder] Okay, so, try again. Release yourself.

Annie: Oh, release you, you mean?

Peter: [shouting] Yeah, fine! Release me, just say it! Just FUCKING say it!

Annie: [fists slam on table] DON'T YOU SWEAR AT ME, YOU LITTLE SHIT! [chair clatters] Don't you EVER raise your voice at me, I AM YOUR MOTHER. Do you understand? All I do is worry and slave and defend you. And all I get back is that FUCKING FACE ON YOUR FACE! So full of disdain and resentment, and always so annoyed. Well, now your sister is dead! [calmer, more sympathetic] And I know you miss her. And I know it was an accident. And I know you're in pain. And I wish I could take that away for you. [cruelly] I wish I could shield you from the knowledge that you did what you did. [shrieking] But your sister is DEAD! She's gone forever! [sobbing] And what a waste... If it could have maybe brought us together, or something! [accusingly] If you could have just said, "I'm sorry," or faced up to what happened, maybe then we could do something with this. [practically spitting the words] But you can't take responsibility for anything!! So now I can't accept. And I CAN’T forgive. Because... [catches breath] Because nooOBODY admits ANYTHING THEY'VE DONE!!!

Carver: Peter wants to blame himself-- He does already. And Annie wants to blame Peter, but she won't say it. She's not willing to take responsibility for anything that she's a part of in this movie. And that is not how mothers are normally depicted. Women are usually expected to have everything together and be planning for every emotional need of the men in their lives. And that is a role that Annie has refused to take on. Which is refreshing in some ways. [laughs]

SJ: Totally. I'm all here for female characters getting to be more complicated and nuanced and messy, and maybe unlikable, than we typically are used to seeing them. I'm here for mothers blatantly expressing to their children that they never wanted to have them. Because that's the complete opposite of the really idealized version of motherhood we so often get. And to me, this is a more honest one-- Like, a lot of mothers resent their children at some point, a lot of mothers experience postpartum depression. And that's just not something we acknowledge or talk about. So anytime that is hinted at or addressed head-on, I'm all for it. I love a complicated mother. [laughs] You know? I love a complicated female character.

Carver: Absolutely.

SJ: [over spooky synth music] That's it for this week. But don't worry, Carver and I still have plenty more horror to discuss. Stay tuned for Part 2 next week, when we talk about Midsommar - The Ari Aster film we maybe, actually, kind of liked? Be sure to follow The Popculty Podcast and Spooky & Gay with Carver & Jay to find out. In the meantime, Happy Halloween and Dia de los Muertos! I hope you're watching some good scary movies. We've left our favorite women-directed horror flicks in the shownotes, so have fun with those if you need some recs. Is there a horror movie that has really resonated with you? We'd love to hear about it. Tweet me @popculty and Carver @spooky_carver. You can follow me on Tumblr at popculty.blog, and Carver on TikTok @acamp.slasher. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave either or both shows a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also support The Popculty Podcast at patreon.com/popculty. Until next time-- Support women directors, stay critical, and demand representation. [music concludes]

Matt Damon: When we're talking about diversity, you do it in the casting of the film, not in the casting of the show.

Effie Brown: Hoo! Wow. Okay.

[autisticcassandracain]

The real problem with "later bats" (i.e., anyone added after about 1990) is that fandom acts like they're just ancillary characters when most of them have their own history both as independent characters and interacting with more established characters like Bruce, Dick, Babs, and Tim. But you won't see much of this on Tumblr.

Respectfully, I disagree. I get where you're coming from, but I think you got the cause wrong. The issue is not that fandom won't accept 'later bats' into the main batfam circle; Tim only barely appeared before 1990, which is why I'm guessing you chose that cut-off point, but both Damian and Jason as Red Hood appeared much later and are widely accepted to be 'inner batfam' members (even though Red Hood Jason wasn't one prior to the N52). Yes, Jason was technically introduced earlier, but if he'd remained dead, he absolutely would not have the popularity he does now; he is specifically popular as Red Hood, which was a relatively late introduction. Moreover, the idea that fandom considers anyone added post roughly 1990 to be a 'later bat' and thus 'bat adjacent' doesn't make sense when you consider most fans do not focus their reading on the pre-1990 comic era, and are too young to have grown up in it. Like, pre-1990 there wasn't even really a concept of the 'batfam'. That came later.

Point being, batfans draw from a canon where those shoved aside bat characters (Cass, Steph, Duke, even Barbara) were present in a good amount of bat comics. Even if they're fandom only, the information they're getting is from people who have read those comics.

The reason they're shoved aside isn't because they're later additions. It's because they're women and characters of colour that aren't whitewashed in canon/are visibly non-white (and thus it's impossible to forget or ignore that they're characters of colour).

It's just fandom racism and misogyny at work again, and the reason it predominantly happens to 'later bats' is because DC's efforts to introduce more women and characters of colour is relatively recent. That's it.

EDIT: for the record I do agree with the unfairness of those bats being shoved aside and treated as ancillary characters when they're just as (if not more) developed as the fandom faves! But I don't think their point of introduction is the reason why. People are perfectly ready to read up on new comics of their white male faves but start crying that the comics are 'too new' when asked why they don't care for the female characters/characters of colour (for example: fans being more than willing to read Red Hood and the Outlaws and make fancontent based off of it, but hem and haw about using the preboot continuity and not liking the N52 when asked about Duke).

I also don't necessarily think inclusion in the main batfam necessarily solves the problem of being shoved aside. The increased inclusion of Cass in batfam fics in response to critiques of fandom racism has not meant better or less racist fandom characterization for her, or more actual focus on her character in fancontent. Stephanie being included as the waffle girl in fic does not mean her character wasn't shoved aside. Duke being in the batfam in your fanart only to stand aside and react outrageously to common batfam things does not make his fandom treatment better. Barbara being included as Dick's love interest does not mean her character is being explored and given the same attention as his.

Idk if I'm explaining it well but it's similar to the fandom phenomena of ignoring f/f ships. When people complain about a lack of f/f ships, they're often pointed to a popular f/f ship, which often has a good number of fics on AO3. The problem is that when you look closer, you realize that this ship is nearly always featured in a secondary capacity. Why?

Because fans are uninterested in actually exploring the female characters, but have also heard about the complaints of misogyny when people kill off, bash, or just ignore these female characters. So they do something that makes it LOOK like they respect them, while not fundamentally changing their fandom behaviour: they shove them together, stick them in the fic, and ignore the hell out of them.

Simply including characters isn't enough. You need to actually give a shit about them. Which is why fandom needs to learn to stop hiding behind thin excuses for WHY they conveniently don't care about the vast majority of women and characters of colour, and start actually taking a hard, critical look at what characters they like, are willing to make and consume content for, and are interested in exploring and centering in their fandom experience.

Which I'm sure you agree with, anon, I'm just physically incapable of not being pedantic.

[atlantis-scribe]

idk the bit about Rodney being misogynistic bc he got taken advantage of by an older woman feels kinda uncomfy. like it veers too close to a justification for his misogyny. (ik in a real person this wouldn't like excuse his actions but since he's a fictional character it's like kinda trying to paint his worse actions in a more positive light, yk?) and like in real life people don't become misogynist/etc for like. a particular reason like that. seems kinda iffy idk

don't mean that as an attack on you or op or anything, sorry if I came off to harsh or anything! just kinda made me a lil uncomfortable (bc like I have seen similar things with other characters in the past and it always seems a lil sketchy to me)

first of all, you don't have to apologize. I get harsh anons sometimes, and they don't often feel the need to explain themselves lmao. also, I love getting asks like this; they make me all thinky :)

and you're absolutely entitled to your feelings of discomfort! while we're talking about fictional characters (which are vehicles for all the nasty or complicated thoughts & feelings that would get us shunned in polite society), discourse surrounding them still reflect a lot of things outside fandom (i.e. in the 'real' world). there is still that responsibility to be careful with the beliefs and ideas we promote.

having said all that, Rodney McKay is definitely the epitome of a 'problematic fave'. while he is a protagonist in the narrative sense, some of his more obvious flaws can make him a difficult character to like (or in my case, to justify liking heh).

as for the whole backstory headcanon, I can understand why it wouldn't sit well with many people. it does seem a bit shoe-horned and, having seen the same kind of justification for other Favorite White Male Characters' terrible behavior in other fandoms, I can definitely see where you're coming from.

(btw, I can't speak for OP but I'm glad you sent this ask, so at least I'm afforded the opportunity to reclaim my honor explain myself haha)

any kind of abuse should never justify horrible actions or behavior that one has been given a chance to change or rectify. in this case, if Rodney had been a victim of an older, female sexual predator in his youth, then that still doesn't excuse his misogynistic tendencies (and outright sexist comments & actions). it can certainly explain it, though, which is what I find so compelling about the idea.

the thing about Rodney ( & Stargate + all its characters) is that he's very much a product of his time. while today's media still exhibit a lot of backward tropes and tasteless stereotyping, we've started to find more and more artists & creators who are willing to apply nuance and care to their writing / art. though I'm sure pioneer Stargate fans have made their metas and criticism of Rodney already, his flaws as a character are even more easily brought into sharp relief now because he is not the kind of character that ages well.

if you've been following me for quite some time now, you probably have an idea why I like him. it's not the easiest thing to be, a Rodney fan, but I always make it a point to not excuse any of his bad traits. however, it's also no fun if all I do is bend over backwards to justify why I enjoy his character so much, which is why (since his writing is so inconsistent and there are so many gaps to his backstory) fans like OP and I, whenever we're given the opportunity, try to come up with bits of headcanon to tie a few loose ends together.

I certainly won't fight anyone about it, and I'm very much welcome to arguments that would debunk these ideas, but I'm acknowledging it to be a pretty neat concept. do I think real people (or even fictional characters) who are as terrible with women as Rodney is must have been abused by women when they were younger? hell no. does the headcanon make some kind of sense for why he is the way he is (which, again, is more a product of bad writing than any deliberate characterization)? I think it does.

so it's really more, 'if Rodney had been sexually abused by an older woman when he was younger, then that contributed to his misogyny,' and less, "if Rodney is misogynistic, then he must have been sexually abused by an older woman when he was younger'. there's an important difference that (I'm not even gonna euphemize this because it is rampant) so many fans defending their faves often miss.

I love Rodney for all the bits that I love about him, and I try to appropriately handle all the rest that I don't. what I wouldn't give for Rodney to have had better and consistent writing (one that, while not necessarily erased, at least properly addressed his flaws). that's why I like Trinity a lot even though he messed up so much in that episode. it had been an opportunity for growth.

[ tl;dr check second to the last paragraph lol ]

.

for reference: this is the post anon's talking about.

also tagging @frankthesnek in case she has something to say :)

[yamujiburo]

Thank u sm for your answer about racebending, I understand it a lot better now!! There's still something I'm uncertain how to feel about though; what are your thoughts on "blackwashing" asian characters? Particularly east asian, and I know this can be a whooole sep discussion (whether or not east asians are poc, privilege bc of (generally) being more light skinned, whether or not anime characters are "raceless", etc), but as an e asian w light skin (in the US) I just don't know how to feel!

This is a good discussion to have and I do feel like it requires more little nuance than when it comes to racebending white characters. I go back and forth on it as a half black half Japanese person and I’m not sure I fully know the answer.

I’ve mentioned this before but there’s a lot of colorism and antiblackness in east Asian countries and communities. I’ve experienced it first hand being that I grew up in primarily Asian spaces. And Asian beauty standards also often align with the practice of skin lightening which is definitely harmful to dark skinned people so yeah it’s not great. Light skin privilege definitely exists across pretty much all ethnicities and a lot of east Asian people do get to benefit from that. 

We see a lot of this antiblackness and colorism in anime. A majority of black men being portrayed as brutes, black women portrayed as much more masculine than their light skinned counterparts (nothing wrong with masculine women but these tropes are good to be aware of), characters with dark skin often being portrayed as demons or animal-like or sometimes they’re just drawn like straight up caricatures. We’re seeing a lot more cool black characters in anime being handled respectfully but,,, still not where we need to be.

All that said, it doesn’t bother me when people racebend anime characters (and anime characters specifically) to have darker skin. Black folks have been done so dirty by anime a lot of the time that I think it’s fair to racebend some of their faves. If being Asian, doesn’t inform who the character is then it’s alright, especially if the anime isn’t really grounded in reality and has a more fantastical approach. I can’t see a situation where I would go after a person of color for giving an anime character darker skin or curly hair. I should probably mention that I don’t actually racebend much and I’m pretty sure my recent drawings are my first LOL and if I were to racebend an anime character, I’d probably make them mixed Asian, especially if they have Asian names, but that’s just me. I find that when I’m drawing anime character in a non-anime style, I just tend to give them more Asian features as opposed to the “raceless” look some anime has (because as someone who lives in the US I do feel like Asian rep is important here)

Speaking of which, I’ve been talking about media from Asian countries, anime in particular. In the US Asian people are absolutely discriminated against, fetishized and and underrepresented in media. When they are represented it’s still very common for them to fall into stereotypes. So when there is good Asian representation here in cartoons or movies I do feel like that should be respected. Like,,, I personally would feel wrong for racebending Jake Long or Juniper Lee or Hiro Hamada or the Avatar cast y’know? Maybe it’s just because western cartoons are typically more grounded in reality and the characters have noticeably Asian traits/features? But again, dark skinned Asians exist, blasians exist and seeing those takes on these characters could be cool~ 

Das my thoughts as a Black and Asian person haha. But I don’t have all the answers! Like I said, this one requires a bit more nuance.