#i say popular instead of good because i haven't played DC

[thattimdrakeguy]

What Happens When You Only USED To Care

I find it extremely hard to take any person in the fandom that does that schtick where they make fun of Tim based on made up or overly exaggerated stuff seriously.

I can't even find it within myself to give them the power of my hate, because it's more like a fly near your ear. You swat em away and bye bye bye.

Maybe it's because I know so much about how DC ended up being, that I can tell when they're bullshitting and saying stuff others put in their ear.

I mean you take a kid's favorite toy, and add modifications and paint jobs that take away the whole point of the toy, the kid's aren't going to want to play with it anymore.

Am I expected to blame the toy itself?

Especially with how the fandom has bastardized these characters that they so clearly love, but they still constantly get cancelled.

And I won't make mention of who, because someone will get sensitive, and plus then say "WELL TIM DID TOO" showing they're completely missing my point and didn't read the whole post.

I'm not sure why the fandom thinks taking complex and fascinating characters that allowed readers to escape their potentially bleak lives to jump into something more joyful (at least in an entertainment kind of way) and turning them into sitcom tropes is a great idea that OH IS SO GREAT, and EVERYONE WILL PREFER.

'Cause when the comics start copying that trend, you're actually scaring most people away.

Sure it's different from the big bad edgy we had to deal with a while, but it's still not getting these things back to were the once were.

You're replacing the bad, with a different flavor of bad. This time coated in a superficial dusting of praise that doesn't help anything get anywhere.

See, the fandom isn't as big as it may seem. It functions as an echo chamber which gives the illusion of their being way more. These comics wouldn't constantly be cancelled if they were as good or as popular as people make them out to be.

So all those posts praising the nonsense are as functional as having that one friend who praises you no matter what while the rest of the world says otherwise. Might feel good at the time, but let's face it, it gets you nowhere.

And that's just how the internet works. A bunch of little weirdos sitting around making their chamber, and thinking what they say to someone else still matters.

But it don't.

It doesn't.

They're all just so confident they mean something, when they mean as much to the greater world as a weed so far out of view, you don't bother trying to pull it.

You can make up what ever you want, and try to be as abrasive and irritating about what you made up as much of you want, go out praising when some desperate writer that settles for brownie points over critical praise and legacy puts it into a comic to find validation also as much as you want.

But the lack of genuine interest from most people still leaves it as a dud.

So many characters people think are popular, when they're tragically not, no matter if they were formerly good, is saddening. Because a lot of these characters at one point were good, and interesting, and genuinely popular beyond the small pond filled with indignity.

At best they have fan bases that once cared but now no longer do. That don't bother paying attention, because why should they after being denied the simple thing they want--good writing and characterization. The whole reason most start reading in the first place.

I might point one finger at one of these dudes, because I can comfortably say I used to love them too.

No one bothers trying to help out, and bring them back up though.

They want the instant glorification from a bunch of nobodies, who don't care about them as a person, and are only a validation machine instead of anything with a beating heart in it that will truly be there for them when times gets rough besides thoughts and prayers alone.

And as many years as I've seen this stuff, it never stops.

If I haven't been in a better place since I've almost entirely left DC behind in the dust, I would consider that depressing.

These people are online doing this so much that it is what they dedicate their lives to.

It is their life.

They made themselves so unlikable though, that a lot can't be bothered to find pity.

If you have to rewrite reality in your brain, what's the point of living there? You're just convincing yourself you're the only one not wrong, with no hint of irony. What a weirdo thing to do.

Clinging on to things with no solid backing.

In the grand scheme of things they are that insignificant unless you're also stuck in the chamber.

Hell, the only reason I made this post as long as it is, is less out of care and passion, and more because I can't help myself from being overly wordy.

If only DC could be fucked to remember what it takes to write good stories instead of ripping fandom people off. Maybe something would click in and once again take off.

And giving the illusion they now care--

As we can see with the frequent cancelations--

That only works when you have the talent and know how, to tell good stories, with great characters once again. A retro paint job and partially putting the character where they should be can only do so much, when limited talent has to take the rest of the wheel.

Otherwise all you're gonna get is a month or two of decent sells...and it's back into the dumpster again. Where the higher ups might eventually decide to blame the toy and not the manufacturers.

Unless you're Batman or Superman or that level of iconic/popular.

Disappointingly and quite obviously, it's not hard to know if not assume most characters don't have that level of icon to have their back in the dark times. Meaning most go back into the void unless the ones upstairs think this time their new failed from the start scheme will win them all back.

The secret of success in comics is simple, now it may not go back to the way it was, but they can still come back a bit, and here's the secret--

Learn how to fucking tell good stories, with good characterization, with artists that are beyond simply having good talent, but actual passion that shows them how everything's supposed to be.

If I order a nerf gun, and comes not looking anything like what it did on the box.

You know damn well the person who bought it is going to be displeased and not order from them again.

You're testing customer loyalty, and the economy not doing as grand, and prices going up--

The amount of time you have to get them back is depleting.

So get your head out of your ass and actually do something.

[kitkatt0430]

SO I don't really keep up all that much with the DCEU so I was taken aback when watching a video essay about why the sequel films are bad when the essayist said that... the whole DCEU was ending with Aquaman 2. Like I know this 'verse has never done, like, amazingly well, and I know some of the sequels were pretty naff but...actually scrapping it? And I'm wondering why - is it really that it's flopped or is it that they wanted an MCU without being willing to put in any of the work and instead expecting Instant Billions or whatever (or is it tax reasons, like they did with Batgirl?)

Oooh, send me a link to the essay? I'll have to check that out.

So I admit I haven't paid all that much attention to the DCEU either. I gave up on following everything for that one a lot faster than I did the MCU, so I really only tune in to one of the DC movies if I hear enough about it being good after it's been out a while. It was definitely mismanaged compared to how the MCU was handled - which is funny because the Arrow-verse interconnected shows was well done and they could have leveraged the multi-verse aspect of the comics to their advantage, though it's probably for the best they didn't. The shows had their own problems with seasonal rot and using them to prop up the movies would likely have not been pulled off with any finesse or skill. (I mean, they did finally tie in the movies in the Crisis on Infinite Earths with the DCEU!Barry cameo, but that was too little too late and barely counts.)

I hadn't heard the DCEU was coming to a close, but I'm not surprised. Though the news articles I just kinda flipped through before responding here were mixed on whether the DCEU is actually ending or if there is gonna be one more Aquaman movie since the second movie apparently ends with a setup for one? (wouldn't be the first setup for another movie that never followed through though) And it may not so much be ending as it is soft rebooting. Which... since I doubt the WB execs learned anything about why the DCEU failed to achieve what the MCU managed, I can't say I have high hopes for DCEU 2.0.

Their tax games definitely contributed to the DCEU loosing fans and thus money in the long run. The Batgirl movie had a lot of interest in it from fans and, if I'm remembering correctly, it had finished filming and just had post-production left to do. So tanking it for tax reasons pissed off a lot of people and killed off a lot of goodwill towards WB's handling of the DC movies. The fact that WB/HBO are continuing to play tax games with the Road Runner cartoons continues to erode trust in the company and continuing to play those games are likely to continue destroying their fan base as more and more people lose trust in them. Until these kinds of tax shell games are made illegal, I don't really see the company admitting that these kind of short term tax benefits are hurting their long term profitability with every person who stops caring about new movies or shows announced because, well, it'll probably get canceled for tax BS anyway, right?

Their strict control of characters being allowed to appear in DCEU vs the various tv shows was ultimately harmful too. By refusing to allow a live action Batman show, we got a version of Arrow that was at times good but was still pretty clearly Bruce Wayne-lite with Oliver Queen slapped on top. And who basically became a cop in the final season; comics Ollie would be ranting in all fucks about that if he knew. (Dinah probably wondering if he'd forgotten other words exist...) Declaring Deadshot off limits too meant putting an end to the use of the suicide squad episodes, which I have no doubt backfired by making fans of the show interpretation less interested in seeing the movie version.

While I'm glad that bringing Barry Allen as the Flash into the movies didn't end up killing the show - it was already popular by the time the Justice League was announced so I suspect they at least realized killing that show would definitely be shooting themselves in the foot, a rare good decision for the DCEU - but the way interviews about the Ezra Miller version of the character are given tells me that they just... don't care about the success of the show compared to movies. And that alienated fans of the Flash show, especially down the road when a standalone Flash movie entered development and the movie related hype got louder. "Oh how wonderful Ezra is at playing Barry Allen, none could do it better." Except Grant for nine years. Ten if you count the intro episodes he had on the Arrow before the Flash started. Talking about the movies as if the show didn't exist, or matter, definitely shot them in the foot with show fans. And it didn't help that the movies were retreading stories with that version of Barry that the show had already done - Eobard murdering Nora, Flashpoint, an evil version of Barry too??? not totally clear on that one - and did so badly if the clips I've seen of the Flash movie are any indication. At the very least had the interviews regarding the movie had been respectful of the show's success, they could have drawn in a lot more viewers than the Flash movie ended up with.

Those are not the only places where the movies have caused characters to be barred from the various tv shows or where the movie PR has treated the shows (and not just arrow verse shows) like they don't exist. But they're the ones that come to mind for me first. And it generates bad feelings with fans every time it happens.

Then there's the fact that the DCEU movies were just literally difficult to watch. The MCU movies get dark, but wow. Do DCEU filmmakers know what lighting is? Do they know that lighting is important in order to see what is happening on the screen? Do they know that people watching movies like to be able to see what's happening on the screen?

The MCU has a lot of planned continuity between entries. The plots for the movies may be kinda shallow, but the fact that a lot of the movies can stand on their own despite being interconnected was a major strength for building up the fan base it has today. They don't account for every plot hole or contradiction, and it's kinda hilarious what continuity errors some of the later retcons have introduced, but ultimately there is a cohesiveness of story being told across the various movies and shows. And the shows have been very good at diving into the fallout of plot points that are left shallow in the movies. What happened to the agents burned during the Winter Solder - Agents of SHIELD handles that question really well, though being so tightly tied to the movies was as much a weakness for the show in it's early seasons as it was a strength. Daredevil and the other Defenders shows explored the fallout of the Battle of New York. And the Disney shows continue that trend of diving more in depth into various questions the movies have left us with.

The DCEU doesn't really have that. There's no real unified vision. There's a lot of big ideas but not a whole lot of follow through. The characters don't really seem to exist between movies - the Flash movie was supposed to be a few years post the Justice League movie, but Barry had done basically nothing as the Flash between the two. Diana is still mourning Steve as the love of her life in the second WW movie. Though Diana has grown more comfortable in the regular world, she hasn't really grown any as a person between the first and second movies despite the decades in between. And then sometimes the characters are more stereotypes than actual characters - Batman vs Superman was less Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent clashing over misunderstanding each other and more the concept of Batman vs Superman as argued by out of touch fanboys who don't actually like the source material. (You can tell where I stopped keeping up with the DCEU now right?) And even the extended version of Justice League has at best superficial readings of the characters because it's trying to do too much at once. While sometimes the characters do learn and grow and better themselves, if it survives to the next movie is hit or miss. Which, admittedly, is one movie sin the MCU does have in common with the DCEU.

(The things that could be said about how wildly unevenly Clint Barton was written to be... I swear he's basically a different character every time he shows up at this point, despite having the same name and actor every time.)

And the DCEU hasn't really handled it's scandals well. When actors or directors or whoever is called out on bad behavior, the company will cover for them. So while the people running the shows seemed to have learned from the #MeToo movement and ditched problematic people even when it meant changing direction with ongoing plots (Supergirl season 3) or writing out one of the main characters of a show (Hartley Sawyer being let go between seasons over uncovered past bad behavior and the subsequent decision to write out Ralph Dibny instead of recasting), but those in charge of the DCEU have routinely protected people called out for racist, misogynist, and other prejudiced behaviors. (the post Justice League racism debacle, pretty much everything to do with Ezra Miller pre-Flash movie release...)

Honestly, the TLDR here would be that the DCEU was just mismanaged every which way it turned. And while we still got gems like Aquaman, the first Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey... those were never going to be enough to save the DCEU from either getting shelved or rebooted eventually. And if we are getting a DC movie-verse reboot? Unless the problems that tanked this iteration are addressed, it's still going to fail in comparison to the MCU's ongoing successes. Because ultimately, yes, I think they wanted MCU level success without being willing to do the work to achieve it. And I don't think they'll be any more willing to do that work with a rebooted DCEU either.

[hellsite-yano]

Hell yeah A Robot Named Fight! Also man I played Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet back on XBLA.

If ARNF got a bit more polish and fixed some of the more stupid stuff it could've been as popular as Dead Cells imo

[seekingxanadu]

Every time I see someone begin with “I love Dick but”, I brace myself for a piss poor take on Dick’s canon characterisation. And when that take is DickBarbara and DickKori is misogynistic and instead, there should be KoriBarbara or DickKoriBarbara in canon, I begin to wonder at the takes-person’s intentions. One has to have absolutely no understanding of any of these characters to advocate either scenario. 

Look, in canon, there are so many instances where Barbara has been absolutely terrible towards Dick and barely anyone bats an eyelid because “the man is being put in his place" and that is feminism and something we are supposed to cheer. Problematic behaviour doesn’t become unproblematic just because a woman is doing it. The same goes for people who think Dick’s r*pes by women is inconsequential because men cannot get r*ped. This is a rubbish take. If your problem with Dick is so pervasive, a suggestion that maybe you cheer for  BarbaraDinah or BarbaraTed or BarbaraBatOfTheWeek (which, DC please stop - pairing a woman with all her ex's family members is misogynistic af) instead of accusing Dick of being misogynistic. 

Examples of Dick being misogynistic, I guess *shrugs*: 

I see people say that Dick is emotionally unavailable and scared of commitment. Some of you guys haven't read The New Teen Titans and it shows. Dick and Kori were one of the most emotionally open DC couples. It was what made them so popular among young readers. Dick was talking about starting a family with Kori. 

DickKori didn’t end in marriage because Bat office dragged Dick from Titans office and to pay back Marv for refusing to give him when they demanded him back, Bat office deliberately destroyed DickKori. Mark Waid’s Flash issue of the time even has an already married DickKori in its pages. That issue either went to print early or no one bothered to tell Waid about DC nixing the DickKori marriage. 

Dick has no problems with commitment. If he likes or loves someone, he is willing to “settle down” as we say in our part of the world. Once he married a woman he suspected of being a serial killer offing her husbands. Later, he he found out she was innocent, so he cleared her name, offered to marry her legally and adopt her young son. 

When Shawn thought she was pregnant, Dick was right there for her. 

Of course, DC played the "is she is she not” soap opera line but Dick was committed. So yeah, please GTFO with your “Dick is afraid of commitment” nonsense.

For those who think Dick going to therapy is a revolutionary idea, guess what Dick has often been shown on page as going to therapy. Perhaps the only Batman adjacent character who has willingly gone to therapy multiple times to deal with his grief.

I am pissed off now. Need some DickKori goodness to get back my vibe : 

[teen-comics]

A RETROSPECTIVE ON YOUNG JUSTICE: or me trying to fix what aint broke.

First of all, I want to preface this by saying I know this is a "Marvel Comics" account, its literally in my name, and young justice is neither marvel or a comic. but it is the only DC property I really care about and if I posted this to my main it wouldn't be seen by anyone so forgive me

I also originally wrote this in long text message form to a friend (sorry @flashgame) who has only seen up to half way through season 2, so I haven't included anything about large plot points in seasons 2 and 3. Thats not really what this is about tho so I think my points still stand. These are also just my garbage opinions, I love this show I am just venting and you may disagree, you will probably disagree but I sometimes just have to get stuff like this out my system and thats what's this blog is for. I will go back to making memes about decades old X-men comics after this I promise.

With that out of the way here's my rant :)

For me, young justice’s biggest asset, the ensemble cast is also its biggest flaw. don't get me wrong, incorporating many characters (including obscure ones) into the team gave the show great character dynamics, the freedom to do what they wanted with less popular characters and great fan service for everyone. Buuuut it’s also completely inconsistent with who gets the spotlight and it’s plagued with the problems of just having too many characters. Some characters get huge storylines, massive amounts of screen time, often more than they ever got in the comics and that’s great! it seriously is, young justice is the best adaptation of characters like Kalder, M’gann and Artemis etc it’s literally the most time in the spotlight they ever get. but it’s like the writers just can’t help themselves when adding extra characters! it starts out in season 1 and gets exponentially worse by season two.

What you may notice by season 2 is that, with the new characters introduced, some have been given more air time than others. it definitely starts in season 1. Season 1 is a damn perfect study into how to introduce and build characters, having them each have storylines and later, relationships with each other. the show begins by showing us it’s not sticking to the normal way of doing an ensemble kids show, with the main team meeting in the first ep or two and then remaining the same until maybe one other character is added or a whole lot in a second season as a “new class” (Think X-men evolution adding the new mutants in season 2). Instead M'gann isn’t added till like ep 3 and artemis isn added till like ep 5/6?? i can’t remember trust me it’s quite late for a main team character to be introduced in a first season. that’s probably the first warning sign, even the original team takes a while to form but things are still ok, even the inclusion of Zatanna works kinda because she has the storyline with her dad. but Rocket? yeah...rockets a weird inclusion

she’s added in the last two episodes of the first season and then by season 2? she’s left again and is in the justice league. she gets two episodes!!! two! to be in The Team! like that’s weird and telling of what happens next. the show sticks to a varely normal schedule of adding new members, similarly to X-Men evolution, and like evo those new characters aren’t focused on that much. but evo handelled it better. when it comes to new characters it’s obvious that some are getting much more screen time than others, and some are just more compelling too. the time jump really screws stuff up, adding new characters in (and removing others like Rocket) in the five years off screen means they have to do a good job making us like them because we’re not introduced to them in an organic way.

take Mal and Bumblebee, technically we see them in season 1 but they’re basically cameo/easter egg roles. by season 2 they’ve joined the team and they don’t really get a lot to do after that either. it’s weird and because of the time skip we don’t see them joining, we don’t see bumblebee getting her suit (yeah we can infer it’s from The Atom but really they skip a lot) you might argue that this is necessary for a lot of characters, people like bumblebee, batgirl or even wonder girl have these backstory that don’t really fit in so they're just skipped over to make room for the easily included story’s like blue beetles and impulses

but we still feel like we’re missing something. talking of some of the characters let’s actually look at who got added right? In season 2 its starts to become obvious characters are coming to the front and other are in the background. beast boy is well set up in season 1, he’s well incorporated into the story of a main team character and even tho he’s not integral to the plot of season 2 he works great. same goes for blue beetle and impulse, they’re both great new characters with interesting personalities, backstorys and they do plot relevant things. lagoon boy is also an inclusion that seams necessary, he’s obviously there to be part of the love triangle thing but he’s also useful to randomly get captured and be an annoying character to piss of other members of the team. everyone else tho? it’s really hard justifying them being there. Batgirl, Tim, Wondergirl, Bumblebee and Mal just...don’t do anything. yeah they get thrown a bone once or twice but really it feels like the roles they fill could be filled by other already established people? or they could have been side characters outside of the team. they feel shoe horned in and they don’t get any time to grow. instead storylines focus on the original team, (which is kind of inevitable) and season 1 side characters like Red Arrow, and, of course the previously mentioned new characters that actually work with the story.

i can definitely see why some of these characters were added, Mal and Karen were set up in season 1 so i assume the writers always planned for them to be in season 2. the time skip (let’s be honest) is pretty much entirely there to facilitate Dick becoming nightwing and so of course both Jason, and then Tim (probably because jason comes with too much baggage) had to be included. Batgirl also seasons like a solid choice because she’s from that era of batman and it might seam strange not to include her. and wonder girl continues the “The Teams is made of sidekicks” thing. but come onnnn. Tim and Barbara could have been side characters who we see in one episode (maybe one with Dick dealing with being replaced as Robin or something) and the same can be said about Mal and Bumblebee (wonder girl can be cut tbh)

you can also argue that yeah, maybe the plan was to flesh these characters out in season 3 but it got cancelled. but the season 3 we got adds even more useless characters and actually pushes the good characters from this season into the background. even if changes were made in between the cancellation of the original season 3 and the one we got, i stiiilll think they’d have added the useless characters (this is a bit harsh but season 3 does add a lot of new characters) and not focused on the ones they already had because we saw it in season 1 with Zatanna and Rocket. it’s like the writers get bored easily with characters or something? like they just can’t stop themselves adding new toys to play with. I love this show so much, but after a now third rewatch i still believe the same thing i thought the first time i watched this, I love all the characters, i love all the references but god there are so many characters and so many references