#i might also have a version of this where he’s also married to Elrond yes I swear it makes sense

[malkaleh]

No but say a Mairon who either never went over to Morgoth or went back to Valinor and repented and/or got out of his abusive relationship gets yeeted into regular LOTR book verse/ROP verse and listen obviously there’s a lot of pain and angst and just…he can’t with this version of himself.

But also he’s just fucking roasting Sauron every single moment like - LOOK AT YOU AND ALL THE BABES YOU FUMBLED BY BEING A FUCKING DICK COULD NOT BE ME WITH MY HUSBAND MY WIFE AND MY HUSBAND YOU GOT YOUR ASS BEAT BY MY SONS GREAT GRANDMOTHER AND A DOG. *

Like just absolutely at all times reading Sauron for filth. Mairon is insulted by the idea that a version of him is like this like, Eru help him this Fucker.

*He’s married to Galadriel, Celeborn and Celebrimbor yes I swear it makes sense in my head. In this world Mairon and Luthien are BFFs and also inlaws (Beren/Luthien/Finrod) and Elrond is his son now. Sorry not sorry. Someone is still a Dark Lord.

[juiceboxman]

So I took Siobhan’s advice and listened to the BBC’s radio adaptation of the Lord of the Rings from the 80′s

It’s pretty good, you can listen to it here https://soundcloud.com/inkmore/sets/lord-of-the-rings-radio 

I had some issues with it but I liked it for the most part. I’m not a massive LoTR fan, only watched the films so I don’t know much, but here are the thoughts I had.

I once heard someone describe Hobbits and the Shire as “drama free people” after listening to this series, that’s obviously not the case. Hobbits seem to live for the drama, always talking shit behind one anothers back. I think Tolkien was trying to satirise rural or village life in England and I think he did a good job depicting how petty people can be.

Sam is a working class hero and Frodo doesn’t deserve him.

I understand how people can like Sam/Frodo because there is massive gay vibes coming off them. Personally I interpreted it to be unrequited and an example of some class division, with Sam being working class and Frodo being middle class. The amount of dedication and support Sam shows Frodo I don’t think Frodo would show back if the roles were reversed. I feel like its a very one sided relationship with Sam putting in way more effort than Frodo.

Bilbo’s whole thing seems to be that he went on a gap year once that turned out quite bad and now he kinda lives like a hermit.

I don’t know how reliable to the books the Radio series is, but I feel like the movies do more justice to stuff. Like in the Radio drama Gandalf makes his first appearance by just coming through the door and Bilbo is like “ah, Gandalf” and...that’s it. Movie version was better in my opinion.

I think the radio drama does a lot better to explain what the ring of power does than the movies. I always got confused by what the ring does, like in the movies all it seems to do is turn people invisible and make them into heroin addicts. With the radio I kinda understand more about it. Like the ring’s power kinda depends on the wearer, like a Hobbit could simply use it for invisibility and expanding their life force but a King could use it to control the minds of an entire enemy army and a Wizard could do even more. But it’s still vague and I presume Tolkien intended it to be, like it’s just a representation of the concept of power and this world’s equivalent of a deal with the devil. Power or wishes may be commanded but they will ultimately corrupt you.

Time in the books seem wild. Like at one point Gandalf says that Bilbo has gone off and he himself will start researching the ring and then twelve years go by and Frodo has just been fucking about, forgot that the ring even existed and Gandalf comes back and is like “oh yeah, ring is bad”

Also, Frodo is 50 when he leaves the shire???? Jesus 

Also, were the Nazgul just running about for 12 years looking for the ring? Like at one point the Nazgul knocked on some Hobbit’s door asking about Frodo and the Hobbit told him to go fuck himself and slammed a door- to a NAZGUL

Aragon’s voice in this radio drama is...way off. Like it sounds like Greg Davies. You don’t really have the soft voice of Viggo Mortinstein but the gruff righteous voice of the Principal from the Inbetweeners 

Elrond denying Aragon to marry his daughter until he becomes king of Gondor is like a stern dad refusing you to date his daughter until you get a real job.

Also Aragon gets the reforged sword, like, immediately when they leave Riverdale. Which is a bit weird to me.

It makes sense why Frodo is trusted with the ring. A king couldn’t be trusted because he’d use it for conquest. A Wizard could overthrow Sauron but in doing so would become just as bad so you’re back to square one. With a Hobbit, there is no desire for conquest or any wish for power outside of simply having the ring. Even when Golum had it all he used it for was to hunt fish and extend his life cycle. I’m curious of whether if Sam had carried the ring all the way to Mordor if he could will himself to destroy it or would he have failed like Frodo. 

Gimly and Legolas’ friendship is so cute. Like they start off disliking eachother but bond over their prowess in combat and plan out a gap year after the whole fellowship where they see the sights of middle earth. So wholesome

I don’t understand why they didn’t just kill Golum. Like I know he was important to find the way to Mordor and was ultimately necessary to destroy the ring after Frodo failed, but like the idea of “don’t kill him because of pity and he also probably has a part to play” is bullshit to me. Like he’s so gross and troublesome. It’s the same excuse Jedi have with “oh you can’t kill a Sith Lord because striking them down means you need to embrace the dark side” bitch Luke Skywalker round house kicked a guy into a Sarlack Pick- whaddya mean he can’t kill this wrinkly ass Emperor??? Ethical mental gymnastics are mind blowing.

For me the moment that made me really dig the series was when the Fellowship disbanded. Like shit hit the fan and everyone’s forced to do their own shit, really engaging storytelling.

The series is quite short when you consider all the battles are short cutted. Like in the radio drama you’ll hear a series of grunts for 30 seconds and then a song about how bad that battle was. I guess it would take a lot to depict a battle purely by means of audio.

Seriously the series is quite short, like it’s 13 hour long episodes and by episode five I’m like “oh shit we’re starting the second book already? Damn” It felt half the time there was so much stuff cut out I don’t know why

I think the radio drama is best suited for people who have either watched the movies or read the books. Like I don’t think it’s well suited for people who haven’t seen LoTR content before. Like the scene with the Balrog there is no description of what it looks like.

Also, Gandalf fought the Balrog from the deepest dungeons to the tip of the mountain? Damn, Gandalf’s leg day must be intense

I love the introduction of Treebeard and the Ents. Like you get this horrific imagery with warring Orcs and other evil creatures and then turn a hard 180 to these hilarious tree people. I guess that’s why the LoTR is so great. Because you do get those hard, gruesome battles but you also get these lovely peaceful wholesome scenes.

Quick question, how do you meet a guy called Saruman and then be surprised that he’s the bad guy? It’s the same deal with Victor VonDoom.

Also, did Tolkien have to have all the big villains names sound so similar?

Man, Tolkien loves having people end up together. With the Horse Princess who got friendzoned by Aragorn meeting up with that guy from Gondor. You love to see it

So like, was the King of Nazgul just talking shit or can he not be killed by a man? Like could anyone kill him by stabbing him the face or did the Horse Princess just find a loophole?

At one point this woman kinda makes fun of this flower called Kings Seed or some shit and Aragon basically calls her a THOT 

Kinda sad the series didn’t have more dragons. Like I would have liked to see a huge black dragon at the final battle at Mordor. But that’s just me, I love me some dragons

Also, the final battle at the gates of Mordor is so endearing. Like they don’t even know if Frodo and Sam are still alive but they go to war anyway because they believe they are and in doing so keep the eye of Sauron off of them. It’s really heart warming

The radio’s version of the destruction of the ring is kinda anticlimactic. Like I said it’s better with the dialogue than it is at the representation of physical actions like combat. Like if you didn’t know what happened at the end of the lord of the rings and you were listening to this you would have no idea that Golum fell into the lava with the ring 

I love the owner of the Prancing Pony’s reaction to Aragon becoming King of Gondor. It’s like “hey, remember that guy you saw shit in the woods that one time? Yeah he’s the President”

Also Sam’s Pony lives at the end of it. Love to see it. I feel like Tolkien read his first draft to his kids and they were like “what happened to Sam’s pony?” and he was like “uh, yeah, the pony....the pony lived! yes! the pony found its way back to town” you can tell this story is vibing on a different level than GoT or ACOC

Hobbits returning to the Shire fucking shit up like level 16 PCs returning to the town they started the campaign in

Also, all the Hobbits in the shire have no idea what the fuck went down? Like I understand they live in the middle or nowhere but that’s astounding 

It’s so funny what ends up happening to Saruman. Like he goes from being the second in command of the Dark Lord to being a shitty local businessman in a Village in Yorkshire

I can see how people can really get into the LotR. Like a world like GoT is just fucked beyond compare and any happy ending will be bittersweet at most. But here you have an ending where the characters leave the world better than when they found it

Frodo asking Sam to live with him was him totally trying to get with Sam, right? And Sam was like “oh that’s nice Frodo, but I have gf” and Frodo’s like “oh that’s alright, she can move in too!” it’s like watching a man back step his request for love by inviting a family into his home. You missed your shot Frodo! You had a whole year with Sam and you blew it!

Sam ultimately moving on from Frodo with his thicc Hobbit gf is the character development we deserved

That said, in the movies Sam getting a gf was a thing at the end of the third movie- like he’d been so shy before hand but after almost dying he’s like “fuck it, might as well give my shot” but here in radio drama he...had a gf all along? Like we only hear about her in the final episode and he’s like “oh yeah, my gf ain’t too happy. I left her for a year to fuck about with you so now I need to marry her. Woops” very startling

Also love how Tolkien represented PTSD with Frodo. I don’t think works of Fantasy like this before Tolkien really did this stuff justice. That said the ending is a bit weird. Like I understand that the “Undying Lands” are supposed to reflect Tolkien’s belief in Catholicism, Eternal Life and Heaven. But it’s really hard to not interpret the ending as Frodo as struggling to deal with his PTSD so he commits suicide. Because the Undying Lands is a place that Sam cannot follow. It’s heart breaking but that’s the vibe I got off the ending.

So yeah, there’s my thoughts. It’s pretty good but I’d only recommend the series to anyone who’s either seen the movies or read the books. If this was your first introduction to LOTR I don’t know if that would be any good. 

Also, while we’re here I recommend Escape from the Bloodkeep from Dimension 20. It’s  DnD actual play series that is a slight parody of LOTR. It’s really good.

[gurguliare]

vardasvapors replied to your post “it’s weird to think that idril meeting tuor after huor + hurin must...”

SORRY I HAVE A LOT OF THOUGHTS

vardasvapors replied to your post “it’s weird to think that idril meeting tuor after huor + hurin must...”

I wonder if turgon like....told her about huor's prophecy in serech? but like also....idril the foresighted etc. and after the nirnaeth, i wonder if she thought up the tunnel BEFORE tuor's ulmo thing, even? anyway...stomped uncle...also she could have gone if she pulled a Nienor mayb

vardasvapors replied to your post “it’s weird to think that idril meeting tuor after huor + hurin must...”

i was thinking like, tuor actually knows not so much first-hand about the hadorians or the edain outside of unusual circumstances like his fellow prisoners and ppl he met traveling and hiding and in a weird way has to figure out who they were by triangulating annael's stories with the gondolindrims stories and his small experience to get kind of an idea of who they were, what being a hadorian means....kind of like worf. so it's like....idril and he are BOTH learning about humans at the same time

vardasvapors replied to your post “it’s weird to think that idril meeting tuor after huor + hurin must...”

omg did you read that fic croc wrote about tuor asking like, who the fuck WAS my dad, and my uncle, and idril telling him about them and stuff

Yes it’s my favorite Tuor/Voronwe >____>

Anyway no they’re great thoughts! It’s hard for me to imagine Idril pulling a Nienor because Idril to me seems super ... by-the-book or not at all... I mean, “secret tunnel” is a valid rebuttal here, but that seems to me to represent a basic breakdown of her faith in Gondolin/Turgon’s laws period. Not that I can’t imagine her rationalizing sneaking away in disguise if she was already committed, but like, abandoning the city when she’s been appointed regent? I definitely imagine Turgon telling her about Huor’s last words though, and her of all people remembering it. Lmao wow Idril lasting all of 20 seconds on the calculating “maybe we HAVE to get married for DESTINY” before Tuor does a cute sneeze

As for Tuor + the Edain: yeah, I kind of absorbed some similar headcanons from croc and kate’s discussions/fic, although I also always wonder about Tuor’s... rejection? of his human identity, if we want to call it that, probably too strong, in the scenario where he becomes an elf in Valinor. Obviously that doesn’t preclude him learning about the Edain and delighting in his knowledge of them, and I think doesn’t even preclude him valuing his adan-identity after becoming immortal (cf all your Elrond meta, ahaha)---it’s more like, hmm. My very first impression on reading the Silm was like, oh, of course, Tuor never really knew his own people and his major point of human reference was his captors and abusers among the Easterlings, why wouldn’t he want to convert. But that’s sort of a boring interpretation, obviously. After a while I started thinking---uh, and this is injecting a bunch of shaky headcanons here, including things like “the Noldor and Beorians look most like each other AND the Beorians of the three houses probably bear most resemblance to the Eastrons who followed later, because [mumblemumble I headcanon both as from central/northern central Asia]” but also “Noldor-Sindar relations might have been, for Tuor, a sort of bizarre, peaceful version of Easterlings and the Edain, with the same thing of a second wave of immigrants installing themselves as rulers, but it’s an apparently consent-based, mutualistic hierarchy with lots of mingling instead of violent segregation, so....” And the fact that for both the Gondolindrim and the Easterlings at this point there’s this aspect of like, being fucking hedged in with nowhere to go and pretending you’re happy about this deal for the sake of your pride?

....

Whatever. Anyway, the point of that tangled ball of speculation is just, I wonder if for Tuor loving the Noldor was like, a release from his past but also a weird consolation in the sense of like, not ‘understanding’ or ‘forgiving’ the Easterlings through the proxy of the Noldor, THAT would be super weird and unnecessary, but just having this added perspective that makes him tender toward Gondolin’s fucked-up plight, an alertness that comes out of his life among humans.

With or without that (hypothetical) context, him and Idril talking through the great deeds and ordinary details of his family members and the other Edain is really powerful, because you’re right, they’re finding a way out for the Noldor together---as always, humans or the human example forging the path. It’s nice to imagine that even when Tuor is sort of deep in the dream of Gondolin, there’s always this window inset in the marriage---his presence reminds Idril to look outward (not just in the sense of the necessity of escaping from there, as in the tunnel, but also escaping to somewhere, as in the Havens) and she reminds him.

Imagine Tuor and baby Elwing doing comparative literature stuff? Elwing very officiously telling him ALL the Hadorian-->Beorian fairy tales about the Fall of Man? They both suck at Taliska! They can suck together!