#i love vickie so much and the potential role she could play if the duffers don't fuck it up

[starry-eyed-steve]

Thinking about Vickie and her potential role in s5 today. (Under the pretense, we get apocalyptic!Hawkins where it slowly gets overrun by monsters)

From the bits we know about her, Vickie has strong feelings about helping others, especially the community she grew up in. She loves it so much that she broke up with her boyfriend when he told her she should leave with him (and because of his distaste for Fast Times lmao).

I don't see her as the fighter type. She has a caring aura around her, so I think she will be one of the prominent people who takes care of the community in s5. I'm talking about entertaining kids, handing out necessities, and I can see her treating other people's injuries.

I think she could be such a viable addition to our team because we don't have people who stay back and take care of others. Besides Max, nobody knows shit about treating wounds, Vickie could fill this role easily. And just because she isn't actively fighting the monsters doesn't mean she isn't brave. It takes strength to stay back and care for others. And she already exhibited her brave nature because she stayed in Hawkins even though she had an easy way out.

It would also be an interesting dynamic for Rovickie to explore. Robin definitely joins the active fight against monsters. She will probably be next to Steve and separated from Vickie. But at the end of the day, she has something to look forward to coming home to. And Vickie is there watching her leave for battle every day, hoping she will come back. And when they meet, I think they could comfort each other. Vickie can take care of Robin if she were to get hurt and listen to her about the things she saw. And Vickie can vent to Robin and tell her about her days taking care of others. I don't know. Both could bring each other comfort because they see the world from different perspectives. It might motivate them to keep going, like Robin (and to an extent, the others) get the knowledge how the community is doing and even if things seem impossible they are reminded that there are people who depend on them. And Vickie gets to know how things are out there and doesn't lose hope because there are people who fight the good fight. But overall, Rovickie can become this angsty ship because they are separated, but they also use it for motivation to get through the day to see each other.

I'm just begging the Duffers to give Vickie an important role outside the ship that makes her beneficial for our team.

[chirpsythismorning]

hi some twitter users are saying that the pre-production of st will start in late october :( we have to wait for so long…

Interesting...

Regardless of whether this is true or not, this is a possiblity. I'm like 50/50 rn, considering Netflix said they had 6 months of backlog at least, they’re presumably willing to hold out that far on their end at least.

Although even still, I have been cautiously hoping that the writers could reach a fair deal with the studios sometime in late July/August, but that’s still a best case scenario rn.

It’s possible the strike could end sooner than October, as nothing is set in stone obviously, beyond Twitter speculation.

The reality is, the writers have no intention of dropping all of their demands anytime soon if it means returning to work without any changes. That would make the strike thus far pointless. With how far they’ve come, it only makes sense to keep going and see it through until they get something fair out of it. And that could mean holding out for longer than any of us want.

It’s probably not sustainable for ALL writers across the board to strike for 6+ months, without pay, nor do I think the studios would be willing to have production halted for over half a year and potentially beyond that. This is why late October has always been a possibility, bc that is the 6 month mark. I think by then not only would writers be ready to make some sort of deal, but the studios would also be desperate presumably by that point, so hopefully by then they would be willing to get closer to meeting their demands so that writers can get back to work and do what they love.

If ST5 didn’t start filming until late Oct this year, that would mean filming would go until Oct 2024. This is because it was already stated by multiple sources that filming for s5 was originally going to be from June 2023-June 2024 before the strike, so a year of filming was already in the cards.

I know most fans hear one year of filming and freak out, without understanding what warrants that much time for filming in this case. This does not mean one full year of nonstop filming for every actor. It means that the massive cast will have to plan a schedule that allows their availability to align with the other actors, so that they can accommodate and make production go a lot smoother, throughout a whole 12 month period.

For example, while the Duffer’s did say Amybeth (Vickie) would play a major role in events to come, and so she will presumably have more scenes in s5 than she did in s4, that doesn’t mean she’ll have anywhere close to as much screen-time as someone like Millie. This means that Amybeth won’t need to be on set near as much as the main cast. All it means is that she needs to be available when the other top billed cast is available, specifically whoever she is slated to have scenes with. It costs money to house an actor for days, weeks, months at a time so that they can be near the production location(s). Someone like Amybeth who is based in London, is obviously not going to be in Atlanta the entire run of filming. From what I recall, when filming for s4 Amybeth was only in Georgia for like 2 weeks, and I’m guessing that she was only filming for half of that time.

It makes sense that the top billed cast, who needs to film the most, gets first priority, and as it goes down the line, the actors with less screentime are going to be working around that, also assuming they have much more open schedules because they're also not as high in demand as the top billed cast.

In a perfect world, if everyone in the cast was available at a moments notice, maybe they could film s5 in about 8 months. But adding another 4 months to sort of make up for holidays and other contractual obligations, like cons or any other filming/work priorities, makes up for all of those short and maybe even large breaks in between for certain cast members for various reasons. There's people like David, who has said he was going to have to film Thunderbolts simultaneously while filming ST5. So there we have the second top billed actor needing to make his schedule align in that regard. Then there's Noah who attends Penn during the school year, and while I think it's likely he was probably planning on taking classes online this next upcoming year, it's also possible they were making a point to rush him to start filming s5 as soon as possible so that maybe he could have more time off set later on (hence why he might have been one of the few to start in May).

All of those schedules need to overlap based on who has screentime together basically.

So while I'm not a Finn and Noah were 100% going to start filming in May truther, I don't think the arguments against it were all necessarily based in the reality of the magic of film.

The beauty of film, is that it makes its own rules. You you could literally have actors who are in the same scenes, not filming on the same day, in the case they’re not in the frame at the same time.

One example of this from Stranger Things is the reunion for Mike and El at the end of s2. The Duffers made a joke that they 'ran out of Finn time', meaning that he was unavailable to do those scenes when the time came, which meant they had to wait. But then Millie insisted they do it anyways because she was available.

Not to mention, again, you don’t need every actor available 24/7 to film, which is why Finn and Noah in particular filming in May, as they both said multiple times they would have started then, was entirely possible. They could have scenes together or on their own with no other actors, and it could have taken like 2 weeks to complete them, right in time for June when some of the other actors availability opened so they could then join the mix.

I just remember Redditors specifically getting all up and arms like it wasn’t possible for Finn and Noah to start in May bc certain other actors weren’t available, but that’s not how it works always. I mean, even with filming starting in June, Sadie was always going to be unavailable to film ST during that time bc she was going to be out of the country filming for a different project until July. That doesn’t mean the actors that are available couldn’t film some scenes that they have together and that don’t include her.

I think those fans just got upset bc the possibility of Finn and Noah filming on their own for a week or two, might mean they have multiple scenes alone with no one else, and that terrified them. It’s funny though, bc I’m certain that if Millie and Finn were said to start in May before the others, it would have been quite easy for them to consider the reality of what that meant, being that they presumably had multiple scenes alone together. But in this case, they weren’t willing to even consider it.

Basically filming is complex and to think that it should be done all at once with everyone present is not realistic.

So while I know the 1 year timeframe is daunting to many, know that it's for good reason. Actors don't need to be overworked, nor do those invovled BTL making it happen. The production value from s1-s5 is just not even in the same wheelhouse, so using past metrics from past seasons as to why s5 will be faster to film is not based in what is actually most likely to occur because of so many different factors that are out of anyones control rn (some factors however are...Netflix... PAY YOUR WRITERS!).

There is a light at the end of the tunnel with this news though, believe it or not.

With the strike going on, many fans have accepted that Summer 2025 is the most likely scenario right now. This means that even if filming takes a year after Oct, that puts us at filming ending and post-production officially starting in Oct 2024, which is the same time roughly that s4 filming ended (Sept 2021). And in that case they managed to have s4 premiere the following year with Vol 1 in May and Vol 2 in July.

So even with filming not starting until late October, we're still likely looking at ST5 premiering in summer 2025, maybe with a June/August release if it's two volumes. Or maybe just July/August with one season on it's own.

Right now, I think it would be wise of fans to think about what they want to be doing long-term. In the case that filming doesn't start until October, what do you want to be doing in the meantime while you wait?

You do not have to be here if you don't want to be. Fandom shouldn’t be an obligation. Take a break.! I know I should... But I don't want to, so... yeah.

ALSO I think that realistically, with the strike going on, there could be some stuff we as fans could focus on highlighting in that regard. I know we're not very united or anything, but I've seen fandoms like LOTR and OFMD and even more recently Julie and the Phantoms coming together to fundraise and support the strike. For those that don't know, Julie and the Phantoms literally got cancelled after like one season... So the fact that they're out here supporting writers while the ST fandom, with one of the biggest audiences in the world, is mostly silent beyond acknowledging the strike happening, is sort of embarrassing...

Now this is NOT me saying that each of us as individuals is bad or anything, we're all just existing and I do think that accepting whats going on as this sort of reality has been our way of coping with something we feel like we can't impact at all. And again, we're not very united, which I think is important if you want to see an impact at the scale we are capable of, but are not able to achieve for obvious reasons.

Still I at least wanted to throw this out there, that if we know we're going to be here for a while, might as well make the best of it and support the writers, so that when they do come back it will be a feeling of like relief and excitement to return to writing these characters and their endings, as opposed to like just disappointment from the literal biggest fandom in the world being mostly silent about it.

To be fair, the writers themselves have been very cryptic about it compared to other writers from other series. Of the two pictures we've got from them, they did not show their faces. We have not seen any of them at the picket lines, which is something that I think if they did do it would actually get fans hyped up enough to do something more substantial. I know it's complex, but it is sort of a confusing situation right now, with how they're handling it and how they presumably would like for us to handle it.

In the mean time, I'm just going to go with the flow and accept everything as it comes to us.

[dxrlinggxd]

who i think may/may not die in vol 2

since noah just confirmed that there will be some deaths in v2, here's my opinion on all the characters' safety

NOT safe:

lucas sinclair

the first name that came to mind. he might get vecna'd in vol 2 and he kinda seems killable rn if that makes sense (not that i want him to die don't get me wrong i love lucas) and also (this applies to the other 3 boys) it wld be rlly mean to kill them off just before the final season

max mayfield

i was 85% sure she was getting vecna'd again in vol 2 and then the new teaser practically confirmed it. the vol 2 trailer doesn't look good for her

dustin henderson

could die saving steve, plus the duffers said a fan fav is dying, but also he's one of the 4 ogs so for that reason alone he might be safe

murray bauman

the hilarious comic relief character everyone loves. seen this film before

enzo/dmitri

i was surprised they hadnt killed him off already, but now if they do it wouldn't be surprising at all so idk lets see

mike wheeler

this is the one character who i assumed was safe because i was just all "nah they wouldn't do that"...but honestly? he isn't rlly safe. there's also the whole IT parallel to think abt (bec it's basically canon that will has feelings for mike). but then again like i said earlier, they might not kill the of 4 in the penultimate season

jonathan byers

i feel like of the teens this is the most likely death. not steve or eddie or robin, as I'll explain later. and i highly doubt nancy. his death would hurt everybody but especially will (we know he gets a bigger arc)

erica sinclair

again, the entertaining side character. you never know

karen wheeler

she has a character poster even though she rlly hasn't played a major role so far. there was also that clip in the trailer where shes scared and holding holly. very very likely shes dying

UNSURE ABOUT

(in descending order of likelihood)

jim hopper

again, he got too close to peril for him to actually die again, but again, we never know. of the people in this section, he seems the most likely to die

nancy wheeler

they put her too close to peril for her to actually die. her character also feels like it has a lot of potential vis-a-vis the plot. i'd say a 93% chance she survives

steve harrington & eddie munson

put them together because they have the same explanation: does the way the show is going seem to set up for their deaths? yes. but i think it was shawn levy who said steve is safe, and also joseph essentially said he's in s5, so they wont die. most likely. but they could also just be lying so :|

[edit] + robin says to steve in the vol 2 "i have this terrible feeling it might not work out for us this time" so tbh...idh a good feeling

joyce byers

she could've died, maybe, but winona accidentally said she's in s5 so lol she might not. she isn't a hundred percent in danger (and also there's that snippet of jon and will hugging that we need to be wary of)

SAFE

el hopper

no way she's getting killed off with a whole season left

will byers

again, no way he's dying with a whole season left + he obviously has a much bigger role to play

robin buckley

because it'd just be plain wrong for them to kill off their only openly lgbt character. and also vickie apparently has a bigger role to play. so

[chirpsythismorning]

Penholdergate is pretty much bones at this point, but I'm bored so

Now, I'm not saying that cryptic game the ST writers had going on was actually at all related to the pen of possibility from Anne with an E.

Initially, I thought it was weird they put this emphasis on it being a penholder. Like yes, you can put pens in it, and it can be referred to as such, but idk. I've just never heard it actually be called that, especially when it's surrounded by expo markers on a whiteboard? But anyways, whatever.

Could it all be a joke? Yes. Could it be hinting at something we have to look at deeper in order to figure out? Perhaps.

But, because I literally couldn't think of anything, my brain went straight to the pen of possibility and that took me on a whole different trip.

When promoting season 3 of Anne with an E, Amybeth hinted at the pen of possibility playing a significant role, even sneaking the pen emoji in a q&a, which she posted a week before the final episode aired.

Basically this whole penholder fiasco reminded me of AWAE in general, which makes this the perfect opportunity for me to ramble about how it could end up being one of many inspirations for ST5.

Them casting Amybeth and the Duffer's making a point to say they were big fans of AWAE means it's on their radar at the very least.

I’m also fairly certain they've watched it after recently finding out that, the first time Vickie was mentioned in ST4, during the boobies scene with Robin and Steve, the song Object of My Desire plays.

I kid you not, when Amybeth was announced for the role, I made a playlist of songs I hoped could potentially play during a Vickie scene (because they were released on or close to 1986). And Object of My Desire was one song in particular that I thought would be a cool easter egg/homage to AWAE, since the title matches fairly on point with Gilbert's letter to Anne in the last episode of the series.

If you haven't watched AWAE, I highly recommend it. It's surprisingly very queer and just beautiful all around. There's a lot of care put into all the storylines, both romantic, platonic and familial. I can see why the Duffer's would be fans because AWAE very much follows similar rules of storytelling as ST.

If you also aren't aware, the show is based on Anne of Green Gables, which is a book from 1908. It ended up being an 8 part book series, spanning decades from Anne's childhood to her adulthood, and with a lot of adaptations made based on it over the next century. One TV mini-series from 1985 in particular is especially beloved.

The original book from 1908 has also been referenced in ST itself, with Hopper having read it to both his daughter and then El later on.

And so it wasn't much of a surprise that the creator of AWAE wanted to do something different than the dozens of versions before it, by going more in depth into what was truly going on back then, but most likely wasn't explored fully for that very reason. And even despite all the backlash from Anne purists saying they ruined the story with woke-ness, the writers didn't give a fuck (sound familiar?).

Also, I want to say that a popular headcanon for Anne is that she was queer, as the writing of her does feel very much like she loved Diana in a way that wasn't acceptable back then (she talks about dreading the day Diana goes off and gets married, like she has literal nightmares about it...). With the books being written in the 1900's, and written by a woman, it wasn't an option to even tell a story from that perspective, without it being at most subtextual.

So honestly, if Anne and Gilbert hadn't been so perfectly written in AWAE, I may very well have shipped Anne and Diana more, similar to how I did with the books and a few of the other adaptations. But alas, the straights won this round.

Personally, I felt this version was building up Diana and Ruby, if anything. The way Ruby's crush on Gilbert was kind of a running joke throughout the series, only for her to drop him completely at a moments notice after developing a sudden crush on Moody? Idk, very comp-het of her. And Diana is like Mike Wheeler only 10x worse. Her entire arc was focused on her need to be normal: her disgust when finding out her aunt was a lesbian in s2 (ITS NOT NATURAL), only to start a fling with Jerry in s3, whom she kissed in private, but basically hurt in the end, when he realized she didn't like him beyond the kissing part. She also had a lot of resentment for the future her parents planned for her, which was finishing school and then marriage.

But honestly, the framing for them alone was just, interesting:

Still, even though I would argue Diana and Ruby were queer-coded, I don't think it was guaranteed to pan out as endgame in the end. Especially seeing as Ruby died in the books. So maybe the show getting cancelled was for the best...

Now, Cole on the other hand, was very much gay in canon.

Within the span of one season (s2), they introduced Cole, somehow managed to make it very clear he was gay, without saying it outright, and in a way that felt natural despite the time period that the show was set in (AWAE also had a lot of emphasis on the words weird/different = gay/freak). Although he went through hardships, Cole did get a happy resolution to his storyline at the end of the season, and I think that's what makes AWAE (and hopefully ST) so special.

Not only did we get a glimpse into Cole's perspective as a gay kid growing up in the late 1800's, we also got a more unfortunate perspective, their teacher, Mr. Phillips. Mr. Phillips experienced dangerously toxic levels of internalized homophobia, going as far as to take it out on Cole, essentially punishing a younger version of himself through projection. Whenever he caught Cole doing something perceived as feminine or out of the norm for men in those times, he would make a spectacle out of it and humiliate him.

He had also just jumped into a relationship with Prissy, the eldest girl in the class (ewwww). Although it seemed like he was interested in her romantically when things were still fairly casual, it's in moments of privacy you can see there is an internal struggle going on there. And as he and Prissy get more serious, talking about marriage, these confrontations with Cole are happening simultaneously with Mr. Phillips getting more and more dejected from reality and his impending heteronormative fate.

Although it wasn't clear to Prissy why he didn't love her the way she deserved to be loved, the audience knew it was because he was gay. Fortunately for her, instead of marrying him and being miserable for the rest of her life, Prissy ran out of the wedding, which lead to arguably some of the most beautiful shots in the entire show.

I can't end this mini gay AWAE analysis though without mentioning the beauty that is Gertie and Joe. It was revealed at the end of s1 that Diana's aunt, Josephine Barry, was lesbian, still mourning her love Gertrude, who had just died a year or so prior. But honestly, I'm going to stop there. That's all I'm gonna say because if I talk about them I'll get too emotional (THEY WERE ROOMMATES!).

Now, Anne and Gilbert. Like I said, if they weren't written and framed to very clearly be endgame all along, maybe I wouldn't have been so on board. But they were, and so here we are. (s/out to antis who are convinced all bylers only ship Mike and Will bc they're 2 boys. Newsflash, people ship byler bc of how they were written/framed to be endgame, just like Anne and Gilbert here. If it weren't for these sorbet bitches, I wouldn't have started shipping Byler in the first place. So, you can blame the straights for this one!.)

For those that haven't read the original books, Anne and Gilbert get together midway through the overall series, with the last couple novels even being from the perspective of their children (they had 7 total).

Now when I say endgame framing, I mean endgame framing.

Although back then, couples did get married fairly young, AWAE was based on the events of Anne's life at a really young age, spanning from 13-16, so marriage was just not in the cards for this adaptation.

Because of this, they used cinematography, specifically the framing of Anne and Gilbert, to hint that they would end up together, ie. them standing before a threshold in the finale of every season:

There's even a shot of them standing in front of the tunnel of love, where you can see a couple that resembles a future version of them walking in the background, foreshadowing the inevitable.

There's a lot of shots like this, and while neither of them are reserved to being exclusively on one side of the frame at all times (besides the threshold shots), it's clear the framing of them in general was intended to capture a chemistry building up over the years, which would eventually lead to a payoff, making all these little moments even more special once you can finally look at the story as a whole (remind you of anyone?).

For those who haven't seen AWAE or just want a refresher for the sake of this analysis, here goes:

During the first season, Anne and Gilbert more so embody the academic rivals to lovers trope. It isn't until the end of that season, after budding heads with Gilbert, that Anne realizes she has feelings for him. Unfortunately, it was too late, as he had apparently left town and probably wouldn't return ever again. Or so she thought.

She runs into him before he leaves, gets all overwhelmed, happy to see him (to his surprise) and they end up chatting over tea. They apologize to each other, argue over who should be apologizing, listen to each other's feelings and concerns, have their classic 'anyway' 'anyway' moment, and end it with a staring contest/their breaths catching, aka endgame coded behavior (remind you of anyone...)

In the first half of the second season, they stay in contact via letters. What I find funny is the way Bash teases Gilbert about the letters to Anne being romantic, all while Gilbert insists that she is just a friend. And at the same time Anne is rambling (unprompted) to Marilla that the letters between her and Gilbert are not romantic WHATSOEVER!

Then, in the second half of s2 they reunite and Gilbert basically implies that he came back to Avonlea bc of her. They start traditions together (Christmas episode my beloved), and even stand alongside each other fighting for what's right (getting Ms. Stacy her job back after being unjustly fired) and it's all just very wholesome (with a mix of academic rivals conflict). The season ends with Bash and Mary's wedding, the last shot being Anne and Gilbert standing in the threshold of the church entrance, talking about the future, with Gilbert repeating back something he overheard Anne say in a rant just a few episodes prior:

Gilbert: Tragical romance and all?

Anne: Remains to be seen.

Essentially, they foreshadow their own fate (REMIND YOU OF ANYONE?)

What follows is the third and final season, which means endgame was fast-tracked and so what we got was peak mutual pining/misunderstanding/jealousy tropes, ending with the classic letters tragically unreceived until the very last second trope.

Initially, at the start of s3, Anne pushes Gilbert towards Ruby, by confronting him about the take notice board in a conversation that leaves both of them slightly hurt and confused. Because according to Ruby, while Anne talked to him about her, his eyes were full of romance. Only Gilbert wasn't smiling because of Ruby, he was smiling because he thought Anne was talking about herself and their future, about the two of them taking notice of each other. The moment Anne says Ruby's name, Gilbert's face falls, no longer interested (*cough* van scene *cough*)

In the following episode, Anne pushes Gilbert away even more, insisting she doesn't need him, but it was only because she was frustrated that she needed a man accompanying her in order to travel. But Gilbert took this as her not needing him at all, and was pretty much just defeated at this point. He'd hoped they could use this opportunity traveling together privately to get closer, but now he's starting to think maybe Anne truly doesn't feel the same. And so he decides to give her the cold shoulder, and proceeds to attempt his 'moving on from my true love' era. He then meets Winifred Rose only a couple scenes later, who he begins courting soon after. They even go out to tea a couple of times...

Mary's sickness and passing is something both Anne and Gilbert struggle with, as they have come to associate each others families as their own. So despite the recent tension between them, they quickly go back into a flow of mutual understanding.

When Gilbert gets upset upon realizing, that if he continues with his passion of becoming a doctor, he'll have to deal with people dying and not being able to save everyone, Anne quickly comforts/encourages him for being the kind of doctor people would want to bring their loved ones to, because he cares so much (Caring deeply will always be the right thing). You can see this means a lot to Gilbert. Then when rehearsing the dance for the carnival, Gilbert messes up the formation of the dance to get closer to Anne, where they enter their own little world. Time slows; it's electric. We then see both of them flustered over what they're feeling afterwards.

The rest of the season is filled with misunderstandings, but also moments that parallel to previous seasons, where they work together to stand up for what's right (Who knew, we'd make such a good, T-E-A-M) and all of these feelings basically build up, making both of them wonder if maybe the other could actually feel the same way.

So, when Gilbert is offered the perfect future, the Sorbonne in Paris (his dream school) completely paid in full by Winifred's father if he agrees to propose to her, his first instinct is to track down Anne to ask her what she thinks. When he finds her, she's drunk at the ruins with all their classmates, celebrating finishing the queens entrance exam. But she's confused and quite frankly speechless over the fact that Gilbert felt the need to get her input at all. The choice seemed obvious to her. And that's when we have this long awaited moment happen, where it's basically confirmed Gilbert does indeed return Anne's feelings, that she's literally the one thing holding him back. Unfortunately, Gilbert interprets Anne's hesitation and confusion as rejection. And Anne also sort of interprets this as making him choose between her and his dreams which, she obviously doesn't want to get in the way of.

But it doesn't matter. Because Gilbert still can't go through with marrying Winifred. He spends the whole day before confronting her, visiting places all over the Island, specifically places that remind him of home (Anne). He even goes to the destroyed Avonlea Story Club (*cough* Castle Byers *cough*) and takes one of the sea shells there from Anne's abandoned collection and brings it with him. We then see him looking conflicted between the ring he's supposed to propose to Winifred with, and the sea shell that symbolizes his love for Anne.

It isn't until the opening scene of the series finale that we see Gilbert calling off his impending engagement to Winifred. (I care about you very much / But not as much as for a certain someone?)

Just before this, in the second to last episode, Anne wrote a letter to Gilbert revealing her true feelings, because their talk at the ruins made her start to believe he could feel the same. But the letter (tragically) never gets to Gilbert.

In a last ditch effort before leaving forever potentially (again), Gilbert also leaves Anne a letter revealing his true feelings, which Anne also never receives (even more tragically if you can believe that).

And all this miscommunication comes to a head at the very end, when Winifred reveals the truth to Anne, and Diana reveals the truth to Gilbert. What follows is them both running to find each other, where they kiss, only to once again go their separate ways, pursuing their dreams, with Anne going to school in Charlottetown to eventually be a teacher/writer, and Gilbert to Toronto to study medicine. They make plans to write each other. (I have follow up questions! / So do I!).

Even though the show ended there, because of the books and all the hints the show left along the way, we know that they end up together.

So, as you can see, the pen lived up to its name as the pen of possibility. I also think the comment Anne made early on, about how Gilbert doesn't have a way with words, was meant to ironically hint at the fact that he very much does have a way with words, and that Anne, and we the audience, would find out soon enough.

But like I said, it's entirely unlikely that the ST writers were hinting at the pen of possibility, like SOO unlikely it's unreal. That wasn't even my main point making this. There just honestly hasn't been much to go off with this whole penholdergate thing, and the tag is so dead anyways, so i figured, why not? And I really just needed an excuse to bring up how similar the style of these shows are when it comes to narrative choices, especially the set up for shirbert and byler, because like I said, full serious, I never would have put so much consideration into Byler if it wasn't for how endgame coded they were, just like Shirbert.

Specifically the way Mike looks at Will, it just feels very, very similar to the way Gilbert looks at Anne.

Nevertheless, I still think this adds an interesting layer of possibility to the whole lettergate/pocketgate theory for ST5. After all, we know Will is good at painting, and it's his love language, which is why he gifted Mike a painting in the first place. In contrast, we're given these implications that writing is Mike's love language. He also attributes it to romantic feelings, which is why he feels he has an obligation to reserve letter writing to El, his girlfriend. But because it is his love language, there's an element of truthfulness that he can't fully submit to. He couldn't 'in good conscious' go through with it fully, by ending his letters to El with, "love Mike", as it would have contradicted the whole truth of this being Mike's love language.

I feel like the only way for them to properly resolve this whole storyline, is to let us see a letter from Mike. Perhaps a letter ending with, 'love--?. Perhaps a letter addressed to Will?. (Just as long as he doesn't rip it up before he even reads it or step on it and lose it outside, crumpled in the dirt, never to be found. Iykyk. Those were tragic times in Anne nation.)

As you can probably tell by now, there's a shit ton of things the ST writers could pull from AWAE for inspiration, but we won't know if they have done so officially unless it ends up being listed on the updated whiteboard for ST5. If it isn't, then we can rule it out and move on. But if it is (genuinely possible), then I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these elements above paralleled, either with literal parallels or just narratively in a broad sense when it comes to certain characters dynamics and their inevitable fate...