#i love lanval

[shoezuki]

lanval is still one the weepiest sopping wet rags of a man in all king arthur lore like. dude was an absolute wife guy but fr bout it and as in 'if my wife doesnt speak to me i am going to starve myself to death because i wronged her by acknowledging her existence when turning down the queens harassment. i love her so much and i deserve to die' while king arthur n the other knights who were Going to kill him cuz the queen falsely accused him of hittin on her but hes so sad and pathetic that they r like 'ok dude we'you wont be killed just get the fuck out of here' but nah mfer refuses to be exiled cuz his fairy queen honey is ghosting him and he wants death. mfer making the whole court uncomfy cuz he keeps beggin for death and crying bout his wife and they aint even sure this chick is real

[dudeshusband]

i take an interest in arthurian legend when i do read

[edwardscissorfeet]

trying to fuck a guy but he rejects me (because he has a girl more beautiful than me? lol sounds fake) clearly homosexual. taking him to tribunal for homosexuality.

[fuckyeaharthuriana]

Arthurian non fiction recommendation list

I don't talk much about non fiction arthuriana because I usually don't read much of it but I have an immense love for some specific arthurian non fiction books.

I am not really interested in historical Arthur, but I love to see the evolution and addition of arthurian elements in literautre through time and space. For this reason, my absolute favorite is the series "The Arthur of the..."

Here are some:

Arthur of the Welsh (the one I always take with me! It has information of the triads, early Welsh texts and poems, Culhwch and Olwen and the Mabinogion arthurian texts)

Arthur of the French (in particular has a section about Arthur in modern French movies and fiction!)

Arthur of the Italians (this I did not check as I read the texts in Italian, but I know it has information on the Rustichello da Pisa text, the Tavola Ritonda and i Cantari, the ones with Gaia as a character)

Arthur of the Low Countries (one of my favorite because it has full summaries of some Dutch texts that are impossible to find in English like Walewein, Moriaen, Walewein ende Keye, Roel Zemel)

Arthur of the North (has some summaries of some really hard to find stuff arthurian like Ívens saga, Erex saga, Parcevals saga, various Nordic ballads, Hærra Ivan Leons riddare)

Arthur of the Germans (another good one! It has info on a bunch of German texts that are hard to find like Wigamur, various fragments, Tristan traditions)

Arthur of Medieval Latin literature (for the older stuff, like Geoffrey of Monmouth, Nennius and Life of Saints)

Arthur of the English (if you are really into Malory)

Arthur of the Iberians (I have not fully delved into this, but the chapters seem to be about the reception of arthurian matter in Spain and Portugal)

Basically, different authors tackle the arthurian traditions (more or less obscure) from different areas and time periods.

In general, if you like Welsh arthuriana anything written by Rachel Bromwich will be your friend, especially "Trioedd Ynys Prydein: The Triads of the Island of Britain".

For general information:

The Arthurian Name Dictionary (Bruce) - this used to be online, not anymore, but you can still access it through the archive here

The Arthurian companion (Phyllis Ann Karr)

The Oxford Guide to Arthurian Literature and Legend (Alan Lupack)

The Arthurian Encyclopedia (Lacy)

The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Arthurian Legends (Coghlan)

If you are looking for more translated texts you can check here for free downloads, but if you would like books, here are some:

The Romance of Arthur: An Anthology of Medieval Texts in Translation (Wilhelm)

This book contains translations of:

Culhwch and Olwen Roman de Brut Brut Some Chretien de Troyes Some Parzival excerpts The saga of the mantle Beroul's Romance of Tristan Thomas of Britain's Romance of Tristan Lanval The Honeysuckle Cantare on the Death of Tristan Suite du Merlin Prose Merlin Sir Gawain and the Green Knight The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle De ortu Waluuanii nepotis Arthuri

The Book of Arthur: Lost Tales From the Round Table (Matthews John)

This book contains translations of:

(Celtic Tales) The Life of Merlin The Madness of Tristan The Adventures of the Eagle Boy The Adventures of Melora and Orlando The Story of the Crop-eared dog Visit of the Grey Ham The Story of Lanval

(Tales of Gawain) The rise of Gawain Gawain and the Carl of Carlisle The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle The adventures of Tarn Wathelyn The Mule without a bridle The knight of the Sword Gorlagros and Gawain

(Medieval texts) The knight of the parrot The vows of King Arthur and his Knights The fair unknown Arthur and Gorlagon Guingamor and Guerrehes The story of Meriadoc The story of Grisandole The Story of Perceval Sir Cleges The Boy and the Mantle The lay of Tyolet Jaufre The story of Lanzalet And some final notes

[queer-ragnelle]

hello! hope you're having a good day :)

I'm slowly introducing my girlfriend to arthurian legend and I was wondering what films you would recommend for a complete beginner (her). I will be next to her explaining things but I also wanted to start off with something more digestible. We've already watched the green knight (2021) (I know) and excalibur (1981) together. thank you for all you do!

Hello, I am and I hope you are too!

Oh yayyy this is so awesome. I'm going to suggest things that I personally feel really give a newbie a grasp of the characters in such a way that if they were to watch something else afterward, it would actually aid them in understanding. There are some films that are so experimental they're unrecognizable (like Knightriders (1981) or Shadow of the Raven (1988)). Those are amazing, visionary films. But they're entrenched in their respective cultures (American and Icelandic respectively) so they don't really help someone new grasp the foundational lore like the things I'll be suggesting will. This list offers self-contained stories with solid writing, great acting, and entertainment enough to keep one engaged, without any requirement for prior knowledge to appreciate.

Here are the beginner friendly options listed in order of release:

Knights of the Round Table (1953)

Details the rise & fall of Camelot from Arthur pulling the sword from the stone to his & Mordred's deaths. It has everything, the A/G/L of all time, adorable Percival & Elaine as siblings, Orkney bros Gawain, Agravaine, Gareth, & Mordred (who is not a product of incest), sassy clever Morgan beefing with fatherly sweet Merlin, gorgeous costuming, moving script.

BBC The Legend of King Arthur (1979)

This is technically a show but hear me out. It's only 8 episodes, half hour each, & covers the full Arthurian story from Uther's battle with Gorlois to take Igraine all the way to Arthur's passing. Morgan is a central character & fascinating. Arthur raised by Ector alongside Kay. Goes to battle against Lot & Accolon & the other rebellious lords. Great Lancelot & Bors. Guinevere is strong & interesting & sympathetic. Orkney bros Gawain, Agravain, Gareth, & Mordred (who is not a product of incest). Elaine of Corbenic & Elaine of Astolat both present as separate women. Grail quest led by Galahad (no Percival unfortunately). Mador’s brother Guido poisoned “by Guinevere” like in Le Morte d’Arthur & a trial by combat ensues. It’s a really compelling version of events that can give a beginner a great overview of the legends.

Sword of Lancelot (1963)

Opens with an older Arthur looking to marry. Lancelot is his bestie & champion. Other knights include Gawain, Mordred (who is not a product of incest), Bedivere, Dagonet the jester, Lamorak, Kay the seneschal, & eventually Tor. Lancelot/Guinevere have great chemistry they were married irl.

Gawain and the Green Knight (1991)

Faithful adaptation of SGATGK complete with three days of kissing! Unique by having Gawain recount the reason for his journey as he’s already on it. Flashbacks show Gawain at the high table with Arthur & Guinevere, sitting next to his brother Agravaine, when the Green Knight comes in, & is beheaded. The events at Bertilak’s castle play out just like the poem with the lady coming to tempt Gawain & then he forwards those kisses to Bertilak in exchange for the animal of the hunt. Colorful & fun!

Tristan & Isolde (2006)

One of my favorites. I think the leads have great chemistry & gives a decent overview of the Medieval story without too much access. Mark here is morally way better than in Medlit but it does make the live triangle more juicy. Brangain is really funny here too. There is no magic in this version, so no love potion. Just pure unaided adultery.

Sir Lanval (2011)

Short & sweet indie movie adapting Marie of France’s lay of the same name. Great casting, beautiful costuming, pretty sets. Lanval’s rags to riches story thanks to his fairy lady Tryamour. Sport but well-meaning Arthur not doing his marital duties gives Guinevere sufficient motivation to try & seduce Lanval. Kay is here as Arthur’s foster brother & seneschal but sort of acts like an attorney? Lol? Great movie.

Sire Gauvain et le Chevalier Vert (2014)

Another SGATGK poem adaptation, this time in French (with English subtitles) & condensed to a mere 28 minutes run time. Visually stunning & beautifully acted. A little more mature than the 1991 version, bc of course the French have to get freaky with it sexual style (this is a good thing). Another awesome adaptation worth checking out.

Okay I think those are all my suggestions! Hope that gives you and your girlfriend a solid watch list and you both enjoy them. Take care!

[gringolet]

GAYEST ARTHURIAN TEXT BRACKET ROUND 1:

Propaganda:

Lanval:

- “guinevere homophobic era”

- look not for nothing im pretty sure its the only text to explicitly acknowledge homosexuality. like not in a good way but still. also its camp it has camp sensibilities

Bisclavret:

- “Honestly if you don't know Bisclavret I don't know what you're doing here; it was literally taught on my university course as an example of potentail overlap between medieval studies and queer theory, it is spectacularly resonant in its themes of identity, personhood, situation of self in class and romantic-dynastic-sexual systems. The devotion of the knight to his king expressed without any of the trappings of knighthood or even a human voice. It is about yearning, it is about love, it is about love-as-loyalty, it is the literal 'let me be your hound', it is the werewolf as the outsider as the lover. When the knight awakes in the king's bed, returned to himself through love, he is greeted with rapturous joy and kisses and embraces. I really don't know what else I can say.”

- “the king…. the werewolf… I thought they were…. no, it couldn’t be….”

- “gay werewolves. need i say more???”

- “he gave him over 100 kisses <3”

- as someone who literally did my ma dissertation on werewolves i can confirm they have historically been inherently queercoded

[tyrantisterror]

What do you think is a good depiction of a fey/the fair folk? Related question, do the fair folk need to be depicted as completely inhuman and incomprehensible to humans? In one of my stories they're quite varied and the vast majority have a human side to them, being able to experience love, friendship and develop as characters. They are in most cases also capable of forming families.

I wrote a whole thing about how Labyrinth is one of the best depictions of the the Fair Folk in modern fiction and I stand by it.

I don't think the fair folk need to be completely inhuman, and in fact I'd go so far as to argue that they should have some humanity to them to really fit with their mythic roots. Even when played for horror, folklore fairies are more about the uncanny valley than pure xenophobia - they're something that's recognizable a Person, but not quite Human, and the distinction between those two is what makes them interesting.

Folklore fairies have cultures, customs, families, and even governments of their own, with rules they follow very strictly and concepts of loyalty and pride that are very human in their own way. There are stories where people treat with the Fair Folk and come out better for it, even romances where leaving with one's fairy lover is depicted as a happy end (looking at you, Lanval!). Fairies are people - inhuman people, but people all the same, with all the moral complexity that entails.

[knightwithahundredkings]

✒️📚

✒️- medieval text you like

I am obsessed with whatever Guinevere has got going on in Marie de France’s Lanval. Like Queen you didn’t have to do all that

📚- retelling/modern story

Okay I guess it’s technically modern in that it’s not medieval, but Edwin Arlington Robinson’s Tristram is fantastic - I love that Mark is sympathetic there (or at least not straight up evil) and Tristram and Isolt are very compelling. Also Robinson’s verse is beautiful

[alistairs]

“I’ll tell you a secret. Brave Sir Varemundt Silversong, who has never shied away from a fight with man nor beast, is nothing but a godsdamned coward when it comes to love... I desire it above all else, but I’ll run and hide from it at every opportunity.” “I don’t see you running or hiding now.” “Some people are worth facing your fears for.”

Lanval belongs to @halsin

[gawrkin]

It's wild to me that people read that Arthur and Guinevere were a medieval king and queen, and that she had an love affair with her knight... and jump to assuming they were a modern happy couple, Arthur was always loyal, and Lancelot forced her into it somehow.

It makes me sad that Guinevere gets no agency. Do you think she ever had any or has she always been another Helen of Troy?

(Sorry if this is a repeat, I'm not sure if my previous ask went through!)

(No worries!!:))

Yeah, most people think Arthur and Gwen had a stable relationship because most people only have surface understand of Arthurian literature.

And that, Adultery is Bad, so Lancelot (and Guinevere) are bad people, etc. etc. No regard for the historical context.

On Guinevere and Helen of Sparta:

Yes, Guinevere always had agency, (unlike Helen who was at the mercy of Divine Actors) which is why she has been villified massively compared to Helen.

From Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, Guinevere seemingly betrays Arthur by marrying Mordred and ruling together with him.

In both Welsh tradition and Pseudo Historical tradition, Guinevere has been lambasted as "a false woman who shamed a man better than any"

Marie de France's Lanval, euclidates this by portraying her as a wanton woman, seducing various men including the titular hero.

But then all that changed with French Troubadour culture and Lancelot's invention.

Now suddenly, Guinevere is the best of all women, the model of a true courtly lady and one of the greatest queens in Literary Christendom.

These characters change with the times. I personally think that's a strength of the characters, their versatility.

Guinevere, like Morgan le Fay (a character I often compare her to in my mind), can be a heroine, villainesse and everything in between.

[shoezuki]

Okay lanval Fucks both the character and the lais because he counters so much of typical 'knightly' characters like the lais begins with him being ostracized from the king's court and forgotten and broke as fuck but he's too noble to do anything about it.

And when he meets the Fae queen who confesses to him she straight up is like 'I will give you all the wealth you want I will take care of you' and it's so contrary to how it usually is. Like she's the powerful one and she loves lanval so much she'll give him anything with the condition being he can Never speak of her and mention her existence to other people. And ofc lanval says yes he's smart.

And there's one particular scene where the knights meet with a lot of ladies from the court and while all the other knights are chatting up the ladies lanval is jus standing in a corner thinkin bout his Fae babe and missing her and genuinely what a king. Like he's genuinely so obsessed with her and loyal. And the fact that when queen Guinevere tries to hit him up later he breaks his promise to the Fae queen by saying his beloved is more beautiful, kinder, a better person than Guinevere in Every Way like. Holy shit.

(Also I always found it interesting the stance Lanval takes on infidelity because in all of Marie de France's work infidelity is a major thing like. Married ladies being unfaithful and falling for knights is her thing. But in this lais it's very much that infidelity is decried. I think it's moreso Marie's view on unhappy, arranged marriages vs true love and infidelity being alright when it's to be with genuine love but I digress)

And Queen Guinevere uses her position of power to tell the king that LANVAL was the on to come on to her and then insult her when she turned him down. And so basically the king arrests Lanval and plans to have him hanged. But the thing is lanval is SO FUCKING DISTRAUGHT. he's absolutely fucked up because his Fae queen is no longer answering him and he's straight up losing his mind and wants to fucking die. Like he's bawling in his room.

And lanval is so distraught that straight up the knights and king Arthur r like 'woah dude... OK like if u can show us ur babe n prove she is actually more beautiful than the queen u r free to go' n lanval is just like 'I CANT SHE HATES ME' then they change up again like 'oof Jeez..... OK how bout ur exiled instead' n again lanval is just like 'NO I FUCKED UP PLEASE KILL ME' like at that point they all jus want this dude out of here but mfer is so fucked up he's keeping the trial going. Like they would jus shove him on a boat back to France but no he wants to be hanged.

And the lais ends with the Fae queen actually rescuing him. Which is a huge thing. Like that Doesn't Happen. And she 'forgives' him in the sense that she says he did nothing wrong and was only to defend her. And one my favourite things at the end is that the queen rides off on a horse and lanval is described as getting on BEHIND HER. which entirely encapsulates their relationship in the Fae having so much power and where the act of riding behind her would be seen as demasculating Lanval is just so in love and such a genuine dude he lets her have control and decry his position as a knight and take him to Avalon.

The fact that Lanval isn't a better known figure from Arthurian lore is fucked up actually. Like. Fuck those other guys. Gawain and King Arthur and Lancelot and Queen Genevieve and Galahad can all sit the fuck down. The Green Knight from Gawain and the Green Knight can stay but those other fuckers need to let Lanval get the spotlight like

Lanval was the perfect man. He was such a wet rag of a dude. The ORIGINAL little meow meow. My beautiful boy constantly weeping and crying

[michiriii]

hey wait a second. something's not adding up. in what universe do galahad and percival make out. what in hades.

OMGGG I FINALLY GET TO TALK ABOUT IT LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ok so

Percival and Galahad from arthurian legend do kiss in the Holy Grail quest! I worded it as making out as a joke, they don't make out-

BUT THEY DO KISS

It's meant to be a platonic kissy obvs similar to how in Kirby you kiss when healing but it does happen

The text is actually multiple, as there are so many versions of the grail quest itself

"When the two companions had tarried there until the hour of prime and had seen enough, they left and rode until they came to a forest.

Being about to enter it, Perceval said to Galahad: “To day we must separate and each go his own way. So I commend you to Our Lord’s keeping, and may He grant that we soon meet again. For I have never found a man whose company seemed so sweet and agreeable as yours; so this parting grieves me much more than you may suppose. Yet it must be so, since it pleases Our Lord.” When he removed his helmet, Galahad did the same, and they kissed at parting, for great was their love for one another: this appeared clearly in their death, for one barely survived the other."

The Quest of the Holy Grail W.W. Comfort's translation, page 220

You might find this kiss too in other more popular books such as Le Morte D'Arthur book XVII chapter XII

And there's other kiss later on in book XVII chapter XXII

If you pick up the physical book there might be a chance for the word to have been changed to "embrace", but some versions of it don't touch that word.

Ramble about the grail quest below, I finally have a perfect excuse to let out all my thoughts on the story and the grail knights hehehe

Percival and Galahad in general can switch to multiple dynamics based on authors, as arthurian legend is basically a bunch of people who inserted their knights ocs into this other story and then others recreated those oc's stories to make it cooler or fit in with those times. So Percival and Galahad can go from being the same person, friends, family and other things depending on what the author chooses. This applies to all characters in Arthurian Legend, there are no actual things set in stone. The canon is messy which is why sometimes u might see people hate a character but refer to it as "I hate Lanval's Guinevere" instead of the character as a whole because there are MULTIPLE versions of that character.

I'm gonna give a basic ramble about some of the story and show interactions I like between these two from multiple books after the ramble

HOWEVER I should warn and add a CW/TW that there's character death and implied su*cide (Galahad's death), the second one being more complicated due to how it's handled as Galahad wishes and asks for death and when it comes it's more of a "guys look he ascended he is now with Jesus Christ yippeee, what a cool act don't you wanna pray now" WHICH IS HMM KINDA BAD

I should also say that some parts of the Grial Quest are quite problematic as it puts down other religions and those who follow it as "sinners" or not worthy.

The grail has multiple interpretations as to why there has to be a quest for it, to spread religion, to heal the land and multiple others. Galahad is brought to the round table and does some cool stuff such as pulling out a sword from a stone similar to King Arthur and sitting on the Siege Perilous (a seat who kills anyone who sits there unless you are the chosen one). The Quest is related in some way to Joseph of Arimathea from the bible™ and in some interpretations the grail knights meet Jesus Christ himself. After achieving the grail Galahad asks God for death as he thinks he's lived long enough (he's like, VERY YOUNG??? AS IN HE IS KIND OF A LITERAL C H I L D??). Galahad seems to just inmediatly throw himself at objects that could kill him and is very careless which is kinda sad because even if he is supposed to be a character who we admire as God's knight he is also a kid who doesn't have the best parents and barely has friends, quite literally raised and born FOR the prophecy so it's no wonder he doesn't exactly know what to do after completing his "only purpose". I personally find the grail quest quite tragic, as I love Percival who's biggest dream was being a knight (he's also a babie™) and Galahad's death affects him enough to fully retire from it. Even if it's portrayed as him being "inspired" by Galahad's death enough to convert even more to religion. Not to mention he dies soon after anyways.

Now that u know some of it I can throw some interactions at full speed at you ohohoho SOME ARE ANGSTY OTHERS ARE CUTE AND FUNNY-

That's all tumblr is allowing me to show, also sorry Camachine for using your ask as an excuse to ramble about these two /lh. I'm big on Arthurian Legend and always wanted to ramble about it.

[leodanbrock]

tagged by @southsaturndelta & @desert-rambler

ten books that have stayed with you in some way — they don’t have to be greats, just the ones that have touched you.

as always anyone is welcome to do this <3

1. the silmarillion — tolkien

when the jackson trilogy came out at the movies, it was talk of the playground in the wholesome and exciting way things are when you’re a child but it wasn’t until i read silm that everything changed for me!

2. a little hatred — joe abercrombie

not my fave abercrombie but the impact it made on me was so welcomed after my asoiaf burnout. in it for the long haul with joe abercrombie, looking forward to the devils (sound of the summer)!

3. macbeth — shakespeare

fave shakespeare which i own several copies of. i worked on lighting for a production back in 2014-15 and my copies are heavily annotated with production notes & codes

4. just kids — patti smith

beautiful and heartbreaking. there’s a longer story to it but patti signed a copy for me when i met her and it is deeply treasured <3

5. emma — jane austen

my favourite austen <3

6. the storyteller — dave grohl

i have an enduring lifelong love for him, he is undeniably charming — witty, silly, and filled with warmth. the audiobook version is the best.

7. le lai de lanval — marie de france

technically not a full book, but i think about this short arthurian tale and the mystery of marie de france quite a lot!

8. the subtle knife — phillip pullman

absolutely my fave from the HDM trilogy which also influenced a lot of my interest in sci-fi/fantasy. cried for hours when i finished reading it as a child.

9. ariel — sylvia plath

a collection of her poetry that is quite confronting when you realise how young she was, and how you're approaching that age. reflectins on motherhood, feminism, depression and marriage right up until she died.

10. the fourteenth year of chenghua — meng xishi

detective case fiction and political intrigue for history buffs. i hear meng xishi is quite popular now but i've never read any of her english translations. her chinese prose is so utterly beautiful and her writing is so rich with historical and cultural notes i worry they won't translate across. romance takes a back seat in this one. it's clear she's a history nerd; writes extensively about it in her notes, how it influences her, her interpretations etc. i am aware i am bravely attempting to pitch

[quidam-sirenae]

In my Arthurian lit class we were talking about Tristan and Isolde and this one lady raises her hand and says something along the lines of “it must be horrible to be in love with someone and not be allowed it because of the morals of the time. I saw them together and I knew they were in love but they gave it up for no reason other than the reaction of parents and friends and religions and then found out they didn’t have to give it up at all.” and she was talking about both Tristan and Isolde and a friend from her high school back when black and white people weren’t supposed to date each other but. I think she was also talking about being gay though she didn’t realize it. I remember thinking yeah. Yeah, imagine it. And then we read Lanval and I realized things really really kind of stay the same even when they push forward. Idk I don’t have anything to say rly about that it just struck me how many times the same story gets replayed

[queer-ragnelle]

Hi! I was wondering if you had any advice on how to craft a well-written, compelling Arthurian OC that isn't obnoxious or out of place but is still unique. I recognize the difficulty in doing so with so many different source texts (I'm most familiar with Le Morte, so that's usually my go-to) and the vast list of already existing characters. I'm just curious about your thoughts on the matter, since you're an author and also very knowledgeable about Arthuriana 💖

Hello there!

This is a tough question to answer! I think it's important to note that everyone will have a different opinion on this, but that shouldn't alter you writing your story how you want to. Some think adding any characters at all is too big of a change, while others write a full cast of original characters and then Merlin shows up randomly and makes the story "Arthurian."

I'm going to say something controversial.

Every Arthurian character is an OC.

Even King Arthur himself is an OC.

I'm going to elaborate on this quite a bit, as it's very important to me. But the TL;DR is that reading more will definitely help you conceptualize the boundaries of what's possible. Le Morte d'Arthur is a great start, but there's so much out there, both medieval and modern, that'll undoubtedly aid in your Arthuriana writing journey! :^)

While I do say things like "I love Arthurian OCs" as a means to convey that I view everyone's new creations as valid and interesting, I actually don't believe in a strong differentiation between Chretien de Troyes' Sir Lancelot or Marie of France's Sir Lanval and what you or I are writing today. We're participating in a tradition which can, at times, necessitate the creation of a new character or repurposing of an existing one. I think as soon as you create a character for your Arthurian story, they're an Arthurian character. Some refer to Lancelot or Galahad as "French OCs" or call Knight of the Cart or the Vulgate "fanfiction" as a means to degrade it's validity. Some seem to have an arbitrary timeline on which the full body of Arthurian works is measured, and the more recently something was written, the less authentic it becomes. I think they're wrong. I believe that whether or not we enjoy an installment in the ever expanding Arthurian tradition is irrelevant; it's all equally entitled to a measure of respect, even the new characters. No character or story is lesser than another by virtue of its age or language of origin or target audience or medium. I disdain the excess of scrutiny put upon certain arbitrary groupings of Arthurian tradition. Each story is full of original characters and building on the foundations of what came before. That's the nature of creative influence. Whether or not Arthur was a real person at some point in history is moot. The guy in the Mabinogion or the Vulgate or Le Morte d'Arthur or BBC Merlin is a character. He's a tool to tell a story. Such as your creation will be! Your brand new Arthurian character stands equally with all the rest who preceded them. :^)

Now, it can be helpful to distinguish between a medieval character and a modern one, sure, as they may represent different things depending on what point in history (or part of the world) they were created in. But Arthuriana isn't a franchise one must obtain express permission to contribute to, and it doesn't have a "canon," so therefore differentiating a character as "other" can be counter productive when developing a story. I don't believe Sir Robin from Monty Python and The Holy Grail (1975) or Brian from The Adventures of Sir Lancelot (1956-1957) are any less valuable as characters, even if they do draw on traits of existing Arthurian motifs in order to commentate on them or otherwise expand. In fact I think they're great characters and serve their narrative roles beautifully. One simple and one complex. I recommend watching those to see how it's done well and that may help you develop your own characters. But I'll delve into it a bit here to illustrate what I mean.

Sir Robin carries the coat of arms of a chicken, he's a cowardly knight followed around by a troupe of musicians that sing songs about all of his exploits. That is, the things he's run away from. Rather than use an existing Arthurian character and degrading them, Monty Python developed Sir Robin in order to tell their joke.

The flipside is Brian, a bona fide kitchen boy, who attaches himself to Sir Lancelot and desires to squire for him. Brian's narrative purpose is to deconstruct the nobility in a way that Gareth Beaumains, whom Brian is plainly inspired by, could not. Brian begins as a true serf forced to endear himself to Sir Lancelot to elevate his station. Merlin forges papers of nobility to convince King Arthur that Brian is worthy of this privilege. Even after that, Brian must face the brutality of his fellows while living in the barracks with them, as they don't take kindly to a "smelly kitchen boy" in their midst, plotting to get Brian to incriminate himself as a thief and get evicted from Camelot by Sir Kay. This role is incongruous with Gareth as Sir Gawain's brother, who was always noble, always a prince, and merely cloaked himself in the guise of poverty to prove a point. Gareth could return to the comforts of wealth whenever it suited him and his reason for going stealth was to intentionally distance himself from that privilege. The character Brian exists in order to commentate on the injustice of the upper class's oppression and dehumanization of the lower class in a way Gareth, or even Tor, could not, as they are of noble blood, even if it came by way of reveal. That's why Brian is a great addition to the Arthurian tradition.

Really, it comes down to treating the creation of your new Arthurian character like you would developing one for any other work, one entirely separate from the tradition. If they're a good character, they're a good character! Try not to get hung up too much on whether or not they're going to mesh well with the rest of the cast. For centuries, writers have transformed historical figures into Arthurian characters. (See: King Mark of Kernow better known as the Cuckhold King from the Prose Tristan, Owain mab Urien better known as Sir Yvain from Knight of the Lion by Chretien de Troyes, Saint Derfel better known as Derfel Gadarn from The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell, etc.)

Speaking of Prose Tristan, would anyone consider Sir Dinadan an OC? Or Sir Palomides? They're characters added to a story drawing from a much, much older tradition, and I think they enrich the story. I feel likewise about the many Perceval Continuations, including the German Parzival by Wolfram von Eschenbach, which adds a half brother named Sir Feirefiz, or names Chretien's anonymous haughty maiden Orgeluse. What about Sir Aglovale's son Moriaen in the Dutch tradition? Amurfina in German Diu Krone by Heinrich von dem Türlin? Morgan le Fay's daughter Puzella Gaia in Italian La Tavola Ritonda? Not to mention the countless Middle English additions. The Green Knight and his wife? Dame Ragnelle and Sir Gromer? Or how about everyone's favorite Savage Damsel, Lynette of Castle Perilous? Is she not a late-era addition to the tradition courtesy of the man, the myth, the legend, Sir Thomas Malory himself? And then here comes Tennyson, who read Le Morte d'Arthur, and got to the end of dear Gareth Beaumains' story and had the same reaction we all did: "What the hell? He marries her sister?" And then he went about changing that in Idylls of the King. Speaking of Lynette, what's up with her niece Laurel? She's just a name on a page, the vast majority of retellings choose to ignore her, even if they do keep Lynette and Lyonesse. Laurel can scarcely be called a character, after all. She doesn't even have dialogue. So as I've gone out of my way to make her a prominent, fully developed character, with her own culture and back story and motivations, does that make her an OC of mine? And Henry Newbolt who included Laurel in his play Mordred: A Tragedy. And Sarah Zettel, who wrote from Laurel's point of view in Camelot's Blood. We did all the work, but we threw an Arthurian name on the character, so therefore, she isn't ours? But if we changed her name, she would be? Who gets to decide?

All of the Arthurian characters belong to all of us. That's the beauty of writing in a long-standing tradition, which exists apart from all other forms of writing. We have complete creative liberty to do what we want and refer to it how we want and no person or corporation or anyone can dictate otherwise. The intellectual property of Arthuriana belongs to the people. So invent a brand new wife for Gawain, and well, you're only the millionth author to do it! Just make sure she's an interesting character and that's literally the only requirement. Can't wait to meet her. (And all others you create!)

Have a great day!

[glorious-catastrophe]

hi. i'm currently reading the ill-made knight and feeling insane, so naturally i looked it up on tumblr to find the other sickos and saw your tags on some random "have you read this book" poll about queer lancelot and i just have to ask. is there, like, more of it? i honestly know pretty much nothing about arthurian legend in general, i just found out about this specific series and started reading it, but now i'm kinda hooked. on lancelot especially. what a guy. are there other interpretations of lancelot as being queer?? it's just so interesting to me if he's not just the guy who's fucking king Arthur's wife but is also in love with him too.

hi anon!

first off: i’m so excited that you’re getting into arthurian legends!! it’s a really cool field with some really cool stories :) i wish i could go back and re-learn everything over again

ill-made knight is the most well known arthurian retelling with overtly queer themes, so you’re off to a good start. if you’re looking for similar vibes, i would recommend the sword stone table edited by swapna krishna and jenn northington—it’s an anothology, so it’s got a bunch of queer retellings of arthurian legends (but it might be a little difficult to track all of the characters if you’re unfamiliar with the source material) i know there’s queer lancelot in the story flat white, which is in that anthology

coming out later this year, you have tristan and lancelot: a tale of two knights! i obv haven’t read it yet but it seems like a good introduction to the knights of the round table at large and morgan la fey!

if you’re looking for something other than books, try the album high noon over camelot by the mechanisms (i usually listen on spotify!) if you’re into the magnus archives, the guy who voices jon is in the band—hnoc is a mix of a radio drama and musical retelling of arthurian legends set in space. and they’re cowboys. honestly what more could you want

if you’re interested in learning more about the source material, i would recommend le morte d’arthur as a starting point! it’s like THE arthurian book for people who aren’t insane about the middle ages and cant translate old english and old french. some serious academics are weird abt le morte for various reasons but it is a REALLY good starter text (and lancelot is a bit of a tragic figure and it makes me weep)

if you’re more interested in source material/lancelot stories, start with knight of the cart! there are some good translations (and bad ones) out there—i would recommend a poetry translation over a prose (so it’s written in poem format) because i’m a translation purist but it’s really down to taste

if you’re looking for more source material with more of a queer leaning/playing with gender i would recommend marie de france’s lanval—it’s short and sweet and has some really interesting moments, but, unforch, no lancelot

i do have to put a disclaimer here and say that 1) i have unfortunately been involved more on the academic side of queer lancelot (and queer and trans medieval studies) to know what’s really popping off in the arthurian legends fandom these days and 2) i am one of those people who is insane about medieval literature and have done a research about medieval lit as a whole and so some of the recommendations here are not… fun in a traditional sense. but nevertheless!

OH ALSO if you’re interested in a story about a trans medieval knight, i would recommend yde et olive—it’s a french chanson de geste (if i remember correctly) and from the same literary tradition as most lancelot stories

if you have any questions about arthurian legends in general, feel free to shoot me another ask! i love talking about it and i would love to be a help! and if i think of any more recommendations to send your way, i will reblog this post and add them! happy reading!