#i know P3/4 and vanilla P5 like the back of my hand

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

How are you going to handle SMT Nine protagonist's gender choice also swapping the roles of some supporting characters? Baraki & Sumire, Mubiora & Miranda. I know it's probably a long way off for the new wiki, but it's something to think about. I don't like the old wiki's solution of just making them share pages.

Ahhhhh NINE....... Oh! It looks like there's a "MOVIE" on youtube now (of the male side?) well at least that's more info than like a decade ago.

Yeaaaaaah, I hate these guys sharing pages. TT0TT Even if it's only minor differences, they each deserve their own page (or sub page, in terms of adaptations). Like imagine if they were making Hammy and Minty share a page???? I mean like, ignoring SLs and NPS, and just playing P3P barebones on her route, it's like 95-99% the same as the male's (assuming you are also making choices that are as close to him as possible). But that'd be INSANE to make them share lakdsjka *sobs*

So I made the pages now, info being put on there is going to be a bit scarce (unless other people do it first~! 030 Again my priorities are in what I know. So I'm prioritizing P4/3->Adaptations->Spinoffs->P5 related things->P1/2->DDS or Raidou is what we are looking at, and that includes things from chars to summaries to personas/enemies to items, but that's what I'M prioritizing to write because that's what I'm most comfortable with, I'm not against other's getting a jump on other things XD)

Anyway, as for the chars...... hmmmm. Basically my rule-well format is

For Chars: Character-Main Page, Adaptation of Char-Sub Page (that way you can always redirect back to the main page), if there are two (like male/female MCs) they both get a main page and are linked to each other (but only adaptations of that gender are linked)....

Here it's easier to show you, I did this for SMT if Hero/Heroine:

It's easy to get to the other MC easily, but this way it's not clogged up/confusing on which sub page is related to whom.

Only the Hero/Heroine are main pages, everything else is a sub page that links directly back to the main page.

With SMT NINE Keis tho.......they have a canon name like Tatsuya. In which they are default named Kei but can also be changed. So it looks like this:

as of right now, I don't know any adaptations, so no sub pages (besides a placeholder gallery)

I'm not sure if I should keep it Male/Female in the link, or if I should make it Hero/Heroine. They're like one of the few dual MCs, and the only ones with canon names that are the same (from what I can tell/remember at this moment).

As for Baraki, Sumire, Mubiora, and Miranda..... waaaaaaah. TT0TT They all get their own main page. u_u See below.

Good, now if there are differences......they can be sorted a lot better. If it really is just a copy paste job that Altus did with pretty much no differences? Then we'll make a note in the opening paragraph. (I wouldn't know, I know next to nothing about SMT NINE TT0TT) Or we can always merge pages (only if there is no difference tho, I'd rather have too many than too little but that's just me).

[silly-plays-p5s]

the shadow boss connection with Ann also has double standards... but hey its society "men can't be abused in any way, shape or, form" but damn... Makoto's clinging to Ren came out of nowhere, I get having call backs but that was hella forced... but damn the Ryuji connection that was there didn't connect at all when it should have... lol other than that, I hope mods exist to put the thieves in their other outfits during jail times.

On one hand I applaud them trying to make them sympathetic/grey.......but I think Atlus has an issue with like....you know..... “even if they are sympathetic, they are still bad because they still did bad, two wrongs don’t make a right” but Atlus hasn’t been able to do that since P5 era started to why am I........even surprised.(like we can argue it might’ve started with Sho but.............as much as he loved throwing around the word kill I don’t think he did any of that dkfljsalf but P5 really took it up to the 11). I like to think it’s just the fans but their writing really does.....overshoot the sympathy and try to sweep away their bad deeds under the rug. orz

Yeah...........Alice......would’ve been better if they gave her the same......harsh treatment Kamo got. But hey, she’s a girl, and she’s a “kid” so obvie that means they can do no wrong right? :D (I’m a girl and I’ve had to deal with shitty behavior of all ages for various ages growing up, being a kid doesn’t excuse your misdeeds :/) From what I read about she does some pretty messed up stuff and.....I dunno she feels let off easy. 

When I saw Mako clinging to MC (in the trailer iirc?) it solidified to me that she really can’t be relied on. This isn’t outside the metaverse like with Sojiro, we are in the metavese, we need to be on guard all the time. But no she’ll still be sniveling little shit who’ll get on her high horse the second she can. Atlus says the reason a horror movie wasn’t in PQ2 cause of being too good at it in PQ1, but really it’s cause Makoto wouldn’t have been useful AT ALL the entire time. Like even Chie/Yukari/Mitsuru/Naoto sucked it the hell up and made it through the damn dungeon, but Makoto? I don’t trust her. Atlus has the perfect fine line of her being damsel and her having all bark and no bite to trick us into thinking she has a spine and isn’t really a damsel (she is, the amount of times she needs you to step in or be saved, god Mementos mission really nailed P5 in this case >.>). This esp made it worse cause I used to be like “well at least she can handle shadows” but now if the dungeon or enemy is horror themed I can’t even believe she’ll even be able to handle shadows. >.> (even if Atlus tries to fix it now, without showing actual development I’ll just assume it’s a really shitty retcon but what’s done is done atlus, you get one first impression and Mako did not leave me with any comfort)

But yeah they had all the pieces with Ryu and did NOTHING. orz

Mods will def be a godsend for this game (even for P5 vanilla or P5R if they EVER put that on PC >.>) will enjoy having P3/4 models+Sumi, and having the ability to change outfits, changing non battle OSTs, putting vanilla portraits in P5R, getting the arrows on my gym outfits back in P5R...... 8U That being said it might take the modders a bit before we get mods orz but they will be great~!

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

so apparently P5R just usurped P4G and is now the best selling Persona remake/remaster/whatever; how do ya feel?

Dunno why I didn’t see this, phone’s not giving me updates it seems. ;w; Anyway.... Short Answer: Meh, I really don’t care, I’m more interested in Scramble/Strikers numbers. Long answer tho....(gonna be long, not a rant just I’ve had A LOT of thoughts about sales numbers since P3/5D’s and PQ2′s releases).

I’m not surprised, I mean it’s a remake on a mainline console, combined the fact that it was popular too (I’ll come back to this when I talk about the other Persona games but for now put a pin in that). But there are two things I’m more interested in, 1) P5R’s lifetime sales, and 2) Scramble/Striker’s numbers.

1) Will possibly show how many newcomers we’ve retained. And I’m interested in that because....P5 sold a few million right? If Atlus can retain that that’d be amazing! We won’t know till the Western releases tho. But if it doesn’t, and sells say.....as much as P4G’s life time sales, then....all P5 did was retain the hardcore original audience, it didn’t win over as many new people as we thought it did. Which isn’t a failure, but it’s.....a crude way to say it (sorry I just woke up words are hard), it’s that P5 isn’t as really as hot shit as we all thought it was (and it probably just sold well due to timing and crazy marketing). 

2) What I REALLY want to know is P5S’ sales tho, even more than P5R’s. Since I think that might indicate P5′s standing if it’s as much as a fan favorite as P5 vanilla′s sales show. And it might be the first time we have a clearish answer without any other possibility being the reason for sales numbers. Lemme explain, P5R might do well because is a mainline game instead of a spinoff (but it could do meh compared to P3P and P4G in terms of lifetime sales due to the new comers not wanting to rebuy the game for whatever reason: Same console [which is a double edge sword, PS4 is popular but also people might not want to buy the same game for the same console twice], not worth the price, not enough new changes in their eyes). P5D did poorly, but is it because it was just bad, was it cause of the shitty DLC practices, was it because it didn’t have a lot of content (aka no real plot like P4D)? We don’t know. PQ2? Was it cause it was bad, was it cause it was released on a dying console (as opposed to PQ1 being released at the peak popularity of that console), was it on a console that P5 was it released on, was it cause it featured P3/4 cast and it was aimed at P5 audiences who have no idea who those people are? We don’t really know (this one is probably the dying console tho, which means could it have done well/better if released on the Switch instead?). Did both do bad cause they weren’t really sequels (both technically take place during P5 so yeah)? But P5S? It’s releasing on two very popular consoles, and it’s set as a sequel, so far doesn’t look like there’s a lot of scummy practices going on, actually looks like it has content (so if there are some scummy DLC practices, at least that’s not the ONLY thing you can think about, like with P3/5D). It has A LOT going for it in terms of a spinoff, that even non hardcore/new fans can get into. And I want to know what kind of impact P5 left on the fanbase as a whole and so far it’s not doing so hot spinoff wise (maybe anime too, when the anime was still in the middle of it’s run it wasn’t doing as hot as P4′s first anime or P3′s movies....at least sales wise I found, but that was in the middle maybe it got better), merch sales are probably doing fine tho (since they keep announcing new things). So to me P5′s......all over the gd place. 

tldr; I think P5S will show us a decent idea on how P5 as a series is doing compared to P3/4, it started off strong with it’s main game but has struggled with it’s spinoffs which might be because of other reasons than people just being “meh” on it. P5R will be a good chance to see how many people stayed. 

Now let’s look at the other games. You should know, considering hurdles P5 didn’t have (except maybe P3P, but on the other hand it probs could’ve excelled more on a home console), the modern day Persona games (Tadashi/Old games got screwed and I’ll explain but it’s probably for the same reason as PQ2, or at least for P2EP) did well despite these hurdles, well both original and remakes but I’mma focus on the remakes (all you need to know about P3 Vanilla and FES and P4 vanilla is that they were both released post PS3 and/or towards the end PS2′s life cycle and still did great).

Now P3P probably had the easiest, released during a very popular time for the PSP, and it ended up selling better than EITHER of it’s two PS2 counterparts Life to date (now if you cheated and combined Vanilla and FES, then yeah P3P sold 80,000 less than those two/all their versions, but that’s 2V1 and it’s still amazing how well it did).There was def an uptick in sales, maybe it was all newcomers or maybe it was half old and half new people, but it still resulted in more people buying it than it’s original (which is why I still wanted to talk about it despite it not having the same hurdles as P4G). 

P4G however, that’s where the biggest hurdle comes in (and why I really bring this up). The Vita. A console that sold peanuts compared to the PSP, PS2, PS3, and PS4. No, less than peanuts. 10/15 Million compared to the 80-150 million the other 4 ranged from. I mean yeah a million is a lot, but now you need to market to those million, no, you need to get people to BUY this console first (it was released roughly when the Vita dropped). You need to convince people to ditch their PSP, for a console that isn’t backwards compatible, for this semi-obscure Japanese title. But god damn it did, it almost got all it’s sales from the PS2 back. Hell it exceeded it’s original run L-t-D if you don’t count “The Best” re-releases (Vanilla’s cheaper re-release sold more than P4G’s cheaper re-release). I don’t know if these are also new people, or all hardcore fans, but it did really damn well! It got people hyped and it got people to buy this game AND console! (tho I wouldn’t be surprised if it was at the sacrifice of poor P2:EP, may you rest in peace ;w;). And that was a BIG hurdle for it to overcome! 

Like P3P and P4G really make me wonder how well they’d do with a real remake on the PS4/PS5. Like a port would probs do well, but imagine if they actually improved the graphics and changed/added new things, I think it’d sell about as well as P5 vanilla. 

P5R’s biggest hurdle is justifying itself as a full price game remake on the same console. But like FES could do that (so I think P5R’s outlook is fine, no real hurdles like P4G had to go through)....and just for fun cause I hate myself (jk I dunno I just wanna see if I can take a guess at JPN’s possible sales based off of numbers of past re-releases). And FES’ first week compared to it’s vanilla is 10% higher than Royal, but Royal has more units sold obvie, FES sold about 80% the total the vanilla did, Royal did 70%, L-t-D for FES was 78% not counting cheaper-re-releases, 82% counting re-releases...but I think that’s because P3 Vanilla didn’t have a re-release cause of FES. If I use that as a base.......P5R’s numbers (going off of the graphs from Personacentral like this one and of course the P5R one, which I think are all Japanese sales). If P5R follows a similar patter to FES’ sales %.... I’ll give P5R 72%-82% of Vanilla’s sales (including the cheaper re-release), and we’re looking at maybe L-t-D sales of Royal ranging from about 334,955 to 381,476 units sold. 

If Royal follows a similar pattern to P4G however (cause P5R is more similar to FES and P4G, I’ll do P4G’s too for fun, but I won’t do P3P’s). So there are two life to date numbers, one before factoring in P4/P4G’s re-releases and one after. Before P4G sold about 111% more than vanilla, after re-releases it sold about 96% of Vanilla’s total units. So a low ball and high ball of Royal with P4G’s % would be.....446,606 to 516,389 units sold. 

So combining those two together, I predict (aka this is a theory that I wanted to do for fun for WHATEVER reason, made by someone that JUST woke up and trying to get my math out as quickly as possible, maybe if I have time next week I’ll go back and check my work....I’m very busy this week sadly ;w;) P5R’s L-t-D (pre- cheaper re-release)sales to be somewhere to be 334,955 to 516,389 for Japan. 

But that’s Japan, Japan it feels like they’re more willing to re-buy games on the same console, the West might not be as inclined tho (if we re-buy something, it’s because it’s on a different console). So while P5R could sell about as well as Vanilla did in Japan, I dunno so much about the west. 

tldr; P5R did about as well as I thought in Japan, but not sure about the West. Some number predictions for P5R. If P5R does poorly in the West it could be because it’s was released on the PS4 instead of a different system. P5S I think will give us a better idea on how P5 is doing as a franchise compared to P4.

(also I should note, I prefer vanilla P4 over P4G, there’s some good stuff in P4G, but 1) I prefer Tracey Rooney as Chie, I prefer her down to earth approach more, and 2) there’s some things in P4G that ruins my enjoyment and outweighs the new positive stuff. I like all the remakes barring the guy who directed P4G/P5R, I haven’t finalized my thoughts on P5R yet tho. I do like Kasumi more than Marie tho just on a personality level, still thinking over how they handled her tho. I will say P5R has a lot of gameplay improvements that fixed a lot of gameplay gripes I had so like that’s all I feel like saying/can say about P5R, gameplays better!). 

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

I'm only hearing about the ports second hand so I'm like "they aren't even releasing simultaneously!? What kinda horse piss is this!? P4G is already on steam even? What's the point of the massive push back!?"

Like I understand ports need work and understanding of the systems they're releasing on, but having a whole reveal and trailer and then saying 2 of the 3 games aren't coming until 2023 really irks me

I'mma be honest, I'm happy they are coming. I'm glad it's relatively soon (not like a 2 year wait)....after the announcement. And I get this stuff takes time to port to other consoles.

HOWEVER, I've been of the mindset that P1-4 should've been available within a year or 3 after P5 vanilla. At least as digital classics on the PS4. Specifically PS1/PS2 vers of P1/2-P3FES/4 (even tho I'm team P3P). While we did have the classics ver on PS3 (hence my reason they could’ve done FES over P3P, they already emulated FES), it wasn't hidden that Sony was kinda "eh" on bringing classics....but Atlus is 3rd party, so they don't have to follow that same mindset at that time.

I think the games should come on the other consoles, and if it took so long to get them on XB/Steam (and eventually Switch?) then I get it (there was probs legal stuff, programing stuff, and World wide release stuff happening). But they should've had those (slightly buggy) emulated ports they did with the PS3 ready to go ASAP after P5 vanilla. Because that's focusing on one console, rather than.....XB1, XBX/S, Steam, Windows, and PS5 (not sure if I should separate the XBs tbh), and PS4 (as of sending this to the drafts when I received it, PS4 was added so PS4 as well, and anything after this sentence is after finding out P3/4 is getting a PS4 release....but not PS5???? C’mon DX Why does XB1 get a separate spot with XBX/S? Backward compatibility is one thing buuuuut........ alkjfsaf I’m just bitching cause I want multiple trophy/achievement lists is all 8V).

But no I agree, it sucks we have to keep waiting. I wouldn’t be so upset if it wasn’t for them not already having all these available on the PS4 already. And my annoyance of them not being on the PS4 isn’t rooted in port begging (I want all these guys on as many consoles as possible and I’m glad they are coming), but in the fact that new P5 fans were really interested in the older games after it’s release, and with other upcoming games (P3D/PQ2) but didn’t know the chars or it was hard to get copies of the older games for one reason or another and basically Atlus just missed out on a market they should’ve been ready to jump into ASAP. At the time P5 was still playstation exclusive, and there were plastation versions of past games. And it wasn’t crazy to see classic games on the PSN store (let alone bundled as an HD collection). Why Atlus didn’t push to get the past games out sooner is baffling to me (don’t come at me with coding, I’m talking about it from a business perspective, if they don’t have the manpower at the moment then outsource. They already did that with Catherine PC so I know they can/could 8U)

A World Wide release for pretty much every console doesn’t make sense, they could’ve done playstation first....and then everyone else. It’d be nice and steady momentum. (also I’m not saying they needed to drop all the past games at once. But at least P3/4 prior to the dancing games/Q2 and then P1 and both P2s sometime after).

I just.......don’t get Atlus sometimes. orz