#i just think byler is much more interesting

[miwiheroes]

Dropping Byler Evidence Every Day Until Season 5

Day 6: Parallels with Rovickie

Other than the obvious one--being that Vickie has a boyfriend and Robin is jealous/ put between them--there are actually way more parallels to Rockie than I originally thought, which is why I decided to make a whole post about them!

Again, I'm gonna be stating how intentional I think each parallel is. Even if it's not intentional, it's still a proof because it's the fact they are using the same tropes for two pairings shows that they are both supposed to be seen as romantic.

1. Being Between Them

Very very intentional. The framing is the exact same except Robin is not blurred while Will is blurred. AND the fact that it's a queer character between a straight relationship as well what the actuallllll freak. The difference is the fact that Wills blurred but Robin isn't. Robin is shown to be miserable in this scene, while Will is actually happy in this scene because he is seeing El again.

2. Basically the same conversation

I also think this is kind of intentional, it's tooooo similar not to kind of be inspired by Mike's speech. Obviously, Mike is more of a main character than Vickie so I think that they decided to make her do the same thing as him because the writers see this situation as similar. It's also interesting that she, in this conversation, is talking about how much she should have broken up with her boyfriend earlier. Maybe that gives us a little insight into what Mike is feeling too :)))

ALSO ALSO the bit at the end where Vickie goes "sorry I am rambling while there are people suffering" is literally THE SAME as what Mike says when he goes "it's so stupid given everything that's going on", basically showing they both don't view their relationships as important.

3. The Gay Food Jokes

The 'try before you deny' joke is already kindofsus, but it can easily be argued against as just a little throw away line that is just meant to be a lil bit of banter. Then you see the way that Vickie says "I've made a peanut butter on peanut butter monstrosity" while both queer women are talking to each other. You see the way this kind of sounds similar to Mike going "That's blasphemous, putting fruit on pizza" before the people around him go "Try before you deny" like HAJHDGAJHSGD..... So they have the potential to make queer jokes do they??? Ones that are kind of subtle enough that only queer people pick up on them?? Yessir

4. The Same Look

I don't know if this is totally intentional but it's so perfect <3 Just two gays giving a little smile before looking away quickly teehee giggling kicking my feet.

(im not even adding analysis at this point lmao)

5. 'Cool'.

(also couldnt get a caption for this one but u know what they're saying)

Oh my god I literally yelled when I came across this while watching the scene, not expecting anything else to come up ADGAHJSDG

This is intentional to me. I think the way that the camera is right on Robin's face, the way she says the words, she just seems so IN LOVE and you can definitely see the same (if not more) in love look on Byler's faces when they say the same words. If you can see Robin saying this to Vickie as romantic and as evidence for reciprocated love, then you should definitely see the same for when Mike and Will both say it to each other.

Now that we have gotten confirmation that Robin, Vickie, Will and Mike will all be in the same scenes during season 5, I am even more excited for more parallels between two different flavours of queer couple living their best lives <3 thankyew

GUYS IVE DONE SO MUCH BYLER ANALYSIS TODAY HOLY FUCKING SHIT MY BRAIN IS FULLLL EVERYONE CLAP ME ON THE BACK AHDGAHSJGDHA

[eightfifteen]

I'm reading this book right now and it's as if someone took Every Breaking Wave (my byler fanfic), reshaped it and perfect it. It's so good!!!

If you want something that reads like Stranger Things with a focus on Byler, or if you've simply already read every Byler fic on AO3 and are slowly losing your mind, Don't Let The Forest In by G.C. Drews is a must-read.

Basically it's about these two boys at boarding school who have been friends since they were twelve. Andrew is in love with said best friend, Thomas, and last year something happened with Andrew, which has everyone walking on egg shells around him, but everyone's very vague about it. And on the first day back for senior year, after a summer of almost no contact due to Thomas' abusive parents breaking his phone, it turns out Thomas' parents have gone missing the night before, leaving behind huge amounts of blood, and Thomas as the person of interest.

At the same time, Andrew starts getting visions of monsters hunting him (literally think that scene with Will in the bathroom, and him running from the mindflayer at school).

If you're not convinced yet; when I tell you it reads like Byler I mean it;

The dynamic between Andrew and Thomas, though the character specifics are different, their dynamic is very similar to Will and Mike, with Andrew the quiet introvert, and Thomas the more angry protective one. Though it definitely goes way deeper in ways I can't put into words.

Andrew has a twin sister and is irrationally convinced Thomas is in love with her. (Literally our queen El represent)

Andrew, as mentioned, is having these visions that make him question his sanity, visions that are also very heavily focused on woods and forests. (I swear there's a scene very similar to the panic attack in the forest scene from EBW)

AND Andrew writes and Thomas drawes the monsters from his stories. (ofc will draws and mike writes but that doesn't matter it's THEM if they let them just BE)

It's so adorable yet dark I love it so much. Do yourselves a favor and go grab it from your nearest library (as I did though I'm definitely ordering a hardcover copy once I have the funds).

[facilitatingmyaddiction]

I need to be honest: I really hope Byler is endgame because Byler makes me hate Mike less.

This is a long rant, and this whole post is gonna sound full of vitriol, but BEAR WITH ME, I HAVE A POINT.

I hate Mike's character so much, the show does him so dirty, S3 was THE WORST and S4 was only better because of the Byler implications, because otherwise he still sucks

Allow me to rant after the cut before you guys jump onto me, ok?

He used to be the leader of the party, and in S3 he does NOTHING, and seasons 3 and 4 seem to go out of their way to show DUSTIN (my pookie, this kid is the GOAT, no one say NUTHIN' bout him) as the leader instead of Mike, which like, makes Mike kinda disappear into Mileven? He goes from leader of the party to El's only safe haven, and that bothers me so freaking much. It's a disservice to both their characters IMO. El gets stuck being the only one who can do anything to save the day, and Mike gets stuck being the only one who can be there for her. I don't think it is a coincidence that they get separated for most of S4, because I think if they were together the whole time, the plot would stop moving. Mileven in canon feels like being in a relationship just because you don't know what you would do if both of you weren't together, not because you actually like each other.

Now if Byler IS endgame, everything feels more cohesive. Mike is an asshole, yes, but not because that's who he is - he is an asshole because things are changing and he is hurting his best friend and he is really bothered by that but he doesn't know how to fix it. He avoids saying stuff not because he doesn't want to, but because it feels wrong and he doesn't understand how. He didn't want to play D&D with Will in S3, and he said it was because he was maturing, but as soon as he enters high school, he finds a D&D club and is super dedicated towards it. Lucas has his big game and Mike doesn't even think to negotiate with Eddie to move the last session around so they could all watch the game AND have the finale of the campaign - clearly D&D is, still, a huge priority for him, despite him being technically older and more mature now. Yes, he is still a dick for replacing Lucas at the last session, but this assholery puts his previous assholery ("Did you think we would be in my basement playing games the rest of our lives?") into a new perspective. He STILL cares about D&D, it is STILL super important for him. So why was he doing all that in S3? Makes you question, and that's good! Also very interesting how this priority only comes back once El is not around anymore. It's like he is back to his little bitchy S2 self, maybe trying to get back to the way he was back then.

S3 Mike is overprotective of El because, according to him, he "loves her and doesn't want to lose her". But, if my interpretation of Canon!Mileven is correct, he might be actually scared of what not being with her means for him. If Dustin is more of a party leader than he is, if he and Will are not on good terms, and he doesn't play D&D anymore, that means he's not Leader Of The Party Mike, nor Mike The DM, nor Will's Best Friend Mike. That leaves him as Protector of El Mike. So, he's overprotective, because that's who he's supposed to be, now, right? That's what having a girlfriend means, right? Lucas and Max are always together, and they are dating. So Mike should be there with her and for her, always. If El breaks up with him, who is he then?

So he fights to get her back. And since he's fighting to get her back, that probably means he loves her, right? When someone breaks up with you, and you still want them, no, NEED them back, that means you love them, right?

But then she leaves, and he can'tdo anything about it. And Will leaves, too. And suddenly, he's not missing the time he spent with El. Something feels wrong, and he's still a little bitch to everyone around him, but it's not because of EL. He talks to El, he writes her letters, they keep in touch. And he doesn't miss her. He should, because she's his girlfriend, and he's supposed to be missing her, so he complains about not being able to call her on the phone, but he doesn't try to solve that problem like he did in S2 when he didn't even know for sure if El was alive. S2 Mike would move the Earth to be able to talk to El. S4 Mike thinks just getting on a plane to see her in the summer is enough. A letter every once in a while instead of a phone call is enough. "From Mike." is enough. S4 Mike didn't implode while not having El, like he thought he would, so things change. He's not as protective anymore because he doesn't need to be. The last year was enough proof that he could still be who he is without El, so he has another angle to self-reflect.

If Byler is endgame, then S4 Mike being an asshole to El after she defended herself in the rink is less of him just being a shitty boyfriend and is instead him being mad at himself for neglecting his friends and his own self to take care of her when she truly doesn't need him, even without her powers - and then taking it out on El. He understands that he is pissed, he is prompted to make amends (iirc he didn't go talk to El out of his own volition, he just did it after he saw how Will was reacting to how bad he was treating El) and he can't. But he CAN make amends to the one he thinks he actually wronged: Will.

I hope we get to see a healthier (platonic) relationship between Mike and El in S5. I'd love to see Mike stop being the little asshole that he is after understanding himself a little better. It would put a nice bow in things because GOD MIKE YOU ARE SO ANNOYING AND SUCH A JERK RIGHT NOW.

[lunabug2004]

I want to start this by saying I'm not completely anti-Mileven. I do think it's possible that Mileven could be endgame and I'd still be mostly happy. Some stuff wouldn't really make sense to me but it's whatever, I can probably live with that. That being said,

if Mileven is endgame, it'd be so terribly boring.

The same thing over and over, with them being separated and brought back together every single season, and then also the whole "I love you" issue being recycled from s3 to s4 for no apparent reason. The same couple people thought were adorable by the end of season 1 are not going to be the couple everyone thinks is adorable by the end of s5. I'm sorry but by this point, Mileven are the most boring choice of an endgame couple.

[butterflysonnets]

yes i'm rooting for m*leven breakup because byler is neat but mostly? i'm rooting for m*leven breakup for the sake of el and mike.

to me, their romance was always a puppy love born out of a combination of social pressures, na��ve curiosity, and a lack of true understanding regarding intimacy and romantic love and what it really is. it was real in that they do truly, deeply care about each other and they are close friends, maybe even shared an attraction, but a maturing romance is so much more than that. they've grown up and out of being boyfriend/girlfriend, and that's okay! i think television/film needs to show more often that most of us don't have definite "soulmates" or first childhood loves that we spend our whole lives with. it doesn't mean these relationships meant nothing and didn't impact us, it just means they've run their course and that something else is in the cards, and this is part of life!

i've always felt el was at her best and most confident self when broken up with mike, discovering who she was and what she liked alongside another girl her age instead of just relying on mike for mentorship on how to live in the real world. she deserves more of an opportunity to find herself, her autonomy, and her independence, and to love who she is, and she's made it clear she's felt insecure in the relationship with mike because she isn't being loved and understood the way she wants, needs, and deserves from someone who is her partner.

also, it's okay if mike doesn't love her in "the way he should". he is not obligated to love her romantically and stay in a relationship with her just because she's a girl, because she "needed someone", or because he cares about her a lot. he shouldn't be pressured into a romance if it's not truly coming from his heart. he deserves freedom to find out and honour who he is, too, instead of just staying in his non-functional first relationship — one he got into as a child, essentially — and defining himself that way because it's what's expected when a boy and a girl are close. he loves her in some way, yes, but it's okay if he doesn't feel comfortable or secure being her boyfriend anymore, for whatever reason that is. he's felt insecure too, and that's valid and it matters.

they are their own people and are steadily growing and changing every day. they need time to figure out who those people are, and it's become clear (at least in my opinion) that those people aren't meant to be a couple at this stage.

they deserve freedom. they deserve to grow up and be authentic to themselves and not feel like they need to lie for the sake of a relationship. they deserve to move on from this version of their relationship that isn't making them happy and rekindle the best part of their bond: their strong, beautiful friendship. they don't have to be a couple if it doesn't make them stronger and better and happier people.

i think it would be healthy and wonderful for a show, especially one consumed frequently by young adults, to show a relationship starting, progressing, and ending on good terms in this way. sometimes things don't work out, and that is okay.

[chirpsythismorning]

What they're saying is s5 is going to have Hawkins High School as one of the locations for the plot. What I'm hearing is jealous Mike opportunities...

[miikewheelers]

fellow bylers, i have a question for y'all that i hope to god asking will help me settle this internal debate i've been having with myself once and for all:

[reluctantbylerblog]

…

[love-byers]

....wait . there are people who don't think the show is centered around will? there are people who don't think a core part of s5 will be wills culmination as a character?? there are people who don't think the entire supernatural plot will circle back to will???

besides the fact that the duffers LITERALLY CONFIRMED that will is the center of s5...

the show itself literally tells you. that is the narrative they've been pushing the entire time.

the entire first season is about finding will. every single plotline is connected to finding will.

mike and the boys are using el to find will

jonathan and nancy are working together to hunt the monster they believe has taken will and barb

joyce is trying to communicate with will to find out where he is and how to save him

hopper is a cop investigating the case, and eventually he and joyce team up to investigate further into the lab conspiracy, believing it's tied to wills disappearance

a massive chunk of s2 is about wills connection to the upside down. he's being hunted by the mind flayer and used as a spy, causing a lot of the conflict but also leading to the resolution.

now that we know vecna was behind all of that, that open so many doors for will in s5. if you use your fucking peanut brain for 5 seconds you'll realize there are lots of things we don't know surrounding will and vecna that will come to light in s5. vecna specifically sought will out and hunted him down. remember s2?

"It wanted to kill you?"

"Not me. Everyone else."

we're also getting flashbacks of will in the upside down so we can see exactly what happened to him the week he was there. clearly there's something important we don't know about. the upside down is literally frozen on the day will went missing. but will isn't important and won't be a big part of s5?

s3 is the first time will is less significant to the plot. he still has the connection to the mind flayer and his ability to sense it is still relevant to the story and helps push it along. bit still, he had significantly less lines and screen time. much of his story is portrayed as him struggling to 'grow up' and not being interested in romance like the others. there are several jokes that present will as simply being childish and reluctant to grow out of it. which a lot of people found sort of annoying. i remember seeing a lot of people enjoying s3, but wishing will had more depth and importance.

but we now know that that's not the whole truth. all of that, him being annoyed and disinterested by romance, just wanting to play dnd with the party, and fighting with mike was all subtext leading into his sexuality and the fact that he's in love with mike. that's been confirmed by actors and the duffers themselves. though will's sexuality was always hinted at, it wasn't meant to fully come to light until s4. so they tried to pass it off as will just being childish. they tried to pass of mike and wills conflict as only being about dnd and growing up. a prime example of this is will tearing down castle byers after his fight with mike. he rips the photo of the core 4 as the ghostbusters down the middle, aka where he and mike are in the center. that is easily passed off as just being about the friend group. people BELIEVED that it was just about the friend group, and that there was no way will was in love with mike. but it's now literally confirmed that he is. like it's insane how many people never even considered that as a possibility. people literally just tune out parts of the show they don't immediately find interesting. i've seen so many comments on byler scenes, for example "it's not my fault you don't like girls", saying "wait i don't remember this scene when did he say that??" people just don't pay attention or think deeper than surface level, which in this case is okay because wills sexuality was meant to be something you slowly realized. the problem comes when people just start denying its significance and refusing to see it for what it is.

if you take in all of will's story with mike and whittle it down to "stupid gay crush on best friend" i don't know what show YOUVE been watching. did you forget that will only remembered his mom and mike when he was possessed and lost his memory? that mike recounting the day they met was enough for will to break through and communicate while possessed? that will puts mikes happiness before his own? that will has literally said he needs mike and always will?

it's not a crush that will can just get over. you know we actually have an example of a simple crush and it's dustin and max. how did that work out? dustin got over max very quickly and it's no biggie. he didn't go on a monologue about how he needs max and always will. he just thought she was cool and pretty.

also, the show spends so much time getting the audience to feel bad for will and want to see him happy. you are SUPPOSED to like him. you are supposed to have empathy for him. will is written to be extremely gentle, kind, and selfless.

will is too nice to say anything bad about anyone, even after being viscously bullied and called slurs for years. even by his own father, WHO HE STILL CANT TALK BAD ABOUT!!!

no matter how much will suffers, he remains kind and selfless. he gave a girl his tonka truck knowing joyce couldn't by him another one. mike says they shouldn't give up on looking for him because will sacrificed himself in dnd to save the party. remember the whole thing in s2 about joyce getting on will for constantly apologizing even when he did nothing wrong? there is no point to that besides evoking empathy for him!!!!! he is sweet and sensitive and doesn't deserve any of this!!!!!!!!

and about bylers being delusional for thinking will and mikes relationship will be a big part of s5 and the culmination of everything in a show about monsters killing people, here's a quote from shawn levy, who has directed many stranger things episodes

"People talk about mythology and The Upside Down, and all that is huge, but the magic of S5 are the characters who find sense of belonging with other and through that connection, become heroes."

everyone loves the stranger things relationships until they're queer. when they're queer suddenly there's no time for romance in a sci fi show, the writers actually suck, and they're just baiting. lumax and their love for each other was a core plot of the season where the big bad was trying to kill her all season. there is an entire plot point about max's memory of kissing lucas at the snow ball saving her life. in a show like this, there is time for relationships and supernatural stuff because they are interwoven when the time comes. they can do the exact same thing with byler in s5. s5 is going to be the longest season thus far. there will definitely be time for relationship development.

so yeah. call me delusional but i don't think the show will end with wills feelings for mike unresolved or with them just evaporating. given everything we know about s5 (relationships and finding belonging being an important factor, noah and finn constantly filming together, leakers saying will has a love interest) and everything we already know about the relationship formulas in ST, literally all the signs are pointing to byler. the only rebuttal people have is calling us delusional because the writers just wouldn't do that. if you actually push past the heteronormativity and consider the fact that the duffers do want to represent queer people in a way that doesn't reinforce the idea that we can never find love or be happy, things will start making a lot more sense.

i'm sorry to have to say this about mike but mike is a character presumed straight who hasn't been super relevant in the supernatural plot for 2 seasons now, just as long as will. his significant plot points are related to el or will. relationship development. and unlike will, he has been an ACTUAL asshole!!!! lots of people stopped liking mike as much after s2 because of his personality change. (ofc i still love mike, but there's been multiple plot lines about mike being a dick for no reason and apologizing for it) but no one has VISCERAL hatred for him like they do will byers. not saying mike deserves hate, cause he certainly doesn't, but the problems people have with will, they only have with will. any other character doing it is fine. 2 seaons of wills feelings for mike is boring and distracting but 2 seasons of mike having the same 'i love you' problems with el isn't?

i'm not saying the sudden hate for will is because it's now clear that he's gay but im kind of saying it

some people can't sympathize with queer issues because they don't care about queer people. they don't empathize with queer people. queer issues bore them.

will byers i will ALWAYS defend you. you are safe with me pookie

[kiirotoao]

An argument I see against Byler that irks me, specifically about Will’s storyline, is that some people think that Will’s story is about him accepting himself. Acceptation is absolutely not part of his storyline, and here’s why.

Will has been established as a queer character. Quick as it was, Joyce mentioned Lonnie’s remarks about Will in the very first episode of season 1. Will has also been drafted as a kid dealing with his sexuality. Will knows about what people say about him, and he doesn’t seem to outwardly fight it, alongside much other forms of confrontation towards himself.

Will deals more with the struggle of being different, not of misunderstanding, not of doubting, being.

A great contrast in another series that shows a character learning to accept himself is none other than Nick Nelson in Heartstopper (Webtoon or Netflix - but for the sake of finding scene packs more easily, though, I will be quoting from the Netflix adaptation).

Nick outwardly deals with uncertainty regarding his sexuality. He’s covered in doubtful characters’ judgements, clearly a jock of whom are stereotypically straight, and as Elle would say it, he’s “the straightest person I have ever seen.”

He’s not established with a queer lens. In fact, for a very long time, Charlie thinks that he has no chance with Nick because he doesn’t think that Nick could ever like him like that. But then, in comes Nick’s perspective. He realizes that he’s getting really close to Charlie, and his mom tells him that he’s “much more himself” around Charlie. Then, of course, the meme of Nick taking the “am I gay?” quiz and crying over his result. And then in comes the day after his and Charlie’s first kiss when Nick expresses that he’s “so confused,” not that he didn’t like it, it’s just difficult for him when he’s only ever seemed to like girls before.

That is how you explore an arc of discovering one’s sexuality: show confusion from other characters, self-doubt, and how the character feels working through it. Will Byers has received no such treatment.

He’s not confused, self-doubtful, nor shown working through his sexuality. It’s just always been, and the other characters around him reinforce that. The fact that other characters make remarks. The fact that other characters know without Will telling them anything. The fact that Will has never continued returning any affection to a girl who showed interest in him. The fact that Will never gets a girlfriend. The fact that we know that Will was making that painting for Mike alone.

Plus, if being accepted is Will’s whole storyline culmination, where does he go now that Jonathan in season 4 has accepted him and promises to love him no matter what? That’s it? He’s going to have nothing greater happen to him in season 5 and/or they’re going to reinforce a point they already did so sweetly? Yeah. I mean, I’m not a writer, but, yeah. Sure.

Byler is endgame because Will is going to learn that he no longer needs to just accept himself but see himself in who he is.

[pinksmonkey]

Posting my Ultimate Byler Evidence/Analysis List here directly because it probably makes it more convenient and I should have done this a while ago. XD

There is so much proof for Byler being endgame in S5 of Stranger Things. They are so cute together, and so much in the show has been building up to their relationship. I just wanted to share some of my favourite Byler analyses, because they are so cool, detailed, and in-depth. I love reading about all the hints, symbolism, and subtext for Byler, it's amazing how much thought must have been put into all these things. Why go through all the effort of adding these details if they aren't actually going anywhere with them? Mike is so queercoded, and they are truly in love with each other.

🫥 Just gonna leave some good Byler analyses here 🤐

Most of the links go to written Tumblr posts, and a couple of them are Reddit posts. So it's a lot of reading. If you prefer watching videos over reading, I highlighted my Byler YouTube playlist in green so it's easy to find.

And apologies for any of the links that aren't working, I know some of the posts have been deleted now sadly, but there's no way I'm re-numbering all these so I'm just leaving them in. My fellow Bylers, please stop deleting your amazing posts. ;-;

So anyway, here is the list of some of my favourite Byler evidence/analyses of all time (not in any particular order):

1. Mike's Season 4 Monologue To El

2. Camera Roll Byler Proof Part 3

3. Mike's Monologue and Milkvan

4. Mostly Byler Post Index

5. Dawson's Creek Parallel

6. "My Experience With Stranger Things"

7. What Ollie Learned From Film School

8. Byler Music Analysis

9. Why Don't The Duffers Discuss This?

10. ST Theories Masterpost

11. If Byler Isn't Endgame Then Someone Screwed Up

12. Byler Crumbs From The Cast and Crew

13. Favourite Combination of Endgame Byler Proof

14. I Doubt Byler Then I Remember This

15. The Fact That We Have This Interview

16. You Know Your Ship is Endgame When

17. Mostly Byler Post Index 2

18. Losing Hope Of Byler Endgame?

19. Why I Think Byler is Endgame

20. So Many Thoughts on This

21. Mike's Wall Art

22. Painting Miscommunication Leading to Mike's Monologue Coded

23. Yes, That Scene Did Foreshadow Mike's Monologue as Disingenuous

24. Mike's Monologue Didn't Sit Right With Me

25. Blue And Yellow Pen

26. That Tweet Is So Sweet

27. Heart Eyes, Literally

28. "My Process of Realizing Byler is Real"

29. Looking at Will, Not El

30. High School Musical Parallel

31. Said It Before and I'll Say It Again

32. Delusional Milkdud?

33. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 1

34. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 2

35. For When You Are Doubting Byler

36. Is Mike Bi or Gay?

37. Fully Convinced

38. The Ultimate Byler Playlist (my Byler YouTube playlist)

39. 100% Confident

40. Mike in S4 and S2

41. Mike Is Angry With Himself

42. It's Been A Year, Mike

43. Rink-O-Mania Remodel

44. The Development Of Will And Mike's Relationship

45. Mike's Lies

46. El Was Holding So Much In

47. Flickergate + Lettergate

48. Did Mike Ever Like El Romantically?

49. Mike Is Stupid

50. Byler Won't Write Itself

51. What's The Alternative Explanation?

52. Comparing Mileven and Byler

53. It Was Always About Them

54. Mike Is Not Ok

55. He Has A Love Interest

56. Will's Happy Ending

57. Trying To Be Normal

58. It's Not That Milevens Are Homophobic

59. Byler Is Reality

60. A Proper Look At El's Shrine To Mike

61. Mileven Through The Seasons

62. Suspicious

63. I Can't Doubt Byler

64. D&D Soulmates

65. Let's Talk Phones

66. Not Delusional

67. What Do They Want?

68. The Main Character

69. Mike's Mental Health

70. So Close

71. This Look Confirms Byler Isn't One Sided

72. Mileven Is Bones

73. They Don't Care About Mileven?

74. The Airport Hug Will Always Be Famous

75. The Monologue Mystery, Why Did They Lose?

76. The Cabin Scene

77. Why Couldn't Mike Say It For 2 Seasons?

78. He Was Trying To Find Will

79. Mike The Surfer Boy

80. Mike Definitely Shows Attraction To Girls

81. The Cast Knows

82. Mileven Loses On All Fronts

83. The Bouquet

84. 53 Minutes And 5 Seconds

85. Pink Panther

86. El And Choice

87. Will's Spotify Playlist

88. He'll Come Crawling Back To You, Begging For Forgiveness

89. Mike's Character Arc Prediction

90. It's The Same Look

91. Will's Truly Happy Ending

92. That's The Same Look, Right?

93. You're The Heart

94. Mike And El's Relationship In S4 Was Really Weird

95. Fireworks Parallel

96. Mileven Has Been Built Up For 4 Seasons

97. Not Stupid: The Fate of Mileven and Byler

98. This Suddenly Makes So Much Sense

99. Metaphors In Filmmaking

And unfortunately Tumblr will only let me add 100 links per post, so when I've posted part 2 of this list, I'll link it here: Part 2

[miwiheroes]

Dropping Byler Evidence Every Day Until Season 5

Day 1 - The M&Ms scene

So yeah, this scene is never really talked about that much as like actual proof, more like a funni little thing where Mike looks at Will for a moment when he walks away, but analysis of the cinematography, framing and narrative of this scene can be revealing.

First thing: as soon as El wipes her nose, revealing it was her that helped Mike and Lucas, the camera zooms in on Mike, as if to be like 'oooh wonder how he's going to react'! and the audience is then in suspense, because they're probably expecting him to smile or try to take this opportunity.

What does he do? He just says 'Thanks." And the moment of suspense is broken. It's almost like a record scratch. We will come back to this reaction later, basically because it shows that Mike really does not mind being on these terms with El.

Second thing: At first glance there seems to be 3 main characters of this scene: Mike, Lucas and El. However, Will also seems to be included in this scene unlike Max who is also there. There is no reason to have Will be in some of these shots that, I want you guys to understand, is intentional. The directors didn't just accidentally set up this frame:

They didn't just forget to move Will out the way. In this shot, the Rule of Thirds can be applied. While El and half of Mike are in the second third/ third third, both half of Mike and Will are in the same third. This is also the third on the left, which is where (in western cultures) people begin to look at images from (reading from left to right). The fact that Will looks at Mike when he says 'Thanks' is the first thing that the audience is intended to notice (because its on the left), even if it is very subtle.

It is also important to note that the writers of the show know, in this moment, that Will is in love with Mike, they've had that planned out from the start (this is undeniably canon, unlike Mike's feelings to Will). Therefore, it is interesting that they included him in this shot and the next part too:

Like?? what was the point of the directors putting him in this part? Placing him in an interactional role with Mike in a Mike and El scene is just interesting to me. Like,,,, also could Mike not have talked to El with Will there?

After Will gets up, there is this really awkwardly long part where Will goes from the left third to the right third of the screen and just stays there? Like he's still in the shot (which they can easily catch and retake if they needed to). Why do the writers/directors want you to take such notice of his presence?

Also, going back to the fact that Will has to leave for Mike to be able to talk to El. Again, the directors did not need to put Will in this scene, they could have had him doing something else. Instead, they had him there to subtly further his character arc of being selfless/being shoved away by Mike in favour of El. It's also maybe simply because Mike just can't handle having both Will and El in the same context without ignoring one for the other, because he holds them to the same romantic standard.

We see this mishandling of El and Will in the airport scene, the whole time Mike is with El in the beginning of S3, Rink o Mania, the dinner after Rink o Mania etc. Basically, when both El and Will are around, he feels like he has to get rid of Will to be able to be romantic towards El, despite being able to talk about it to Lucas. When it's just him and Will, he's pretty happy (we see this in the 'Cool. Cool.' scene and the 'Guess it's up to us again' scene which are the only two scenes in S4 where Mike believes he is no longer in a relationship with El and just thinks he needs to team up with Will and go back to Hawkins without El). Therefore, he needed Will out the way because he can't be romantic with his girlfriend with Will distracting him lmao <3

Third Thing: Lucas is the one to encourage Mike to make up with El.

To be honest, him encouraging him alone isn't really that convincing of the fact that Mike is queer coded blah blah, like, your friend is allowed to say 'That was the Olive branch! Your way in!' without it being queercoding. The queercoding however, comes with the reaction to that information.

First, I want to point to something I may bring up in the future of this series. In S1, Lucas is the first person to ever suggest that there might be something romantic going on between Mike and El. When he says "Why don't you just marry her?", Mike does not go all ooooh flustery and blushy, he does not go 'EW GROSS' like a lot of boys that age would, instead he just acts confused. Multiple times.

The first time is when he goes, "Lucas what are you talking about?" The second is in response to Lucas going "Mike, seriously?" saying "What?" again. When Lucas then teases him about caring about her, he just says "Shut up Lucas" in this really tired tone, rather than a flustered or angry one. He basically gets the idea that he probably should like El romantically, if he shows even any care towards her.

Now, throughout S3, Lucas is the one to constantly question Mike's actions towards El. He's confused on why he won't tell her the truth about Hopper, and everything else, which all culminates into this "Oh my god. You're hopeless," when referring to picking up signals about girls.

I must say this rn too: You don't pick up on signals you don't want to receive. You do pick up on signals you do want to receive. I think most of us know what it's like to have a crush. You constantly look out for little things and overanalyse their actions towards you. But Mike has no clue. Maybe because.... he just doesnt feel that way.

Okay going back to reactions. Basically, you would kind of expect Mike's reaction to hearing that his girlfriend, that he's sooooo sad about losing oh nooooo, has decided to reach out and say that she's okay with him would be excitement, right?

When Lucas is describing how he's going to let Mike talk to El, Mike looks extremely nervous, which I get. It's normal to feel nervous in this situation, but the thing is, El seems okay with him, surely he would at least have a little light in his eyes?

When Lucas has to say 'Talk to her, alright?' (as if Mike has no fucking clue) Mike nods and then there is a swell in the music, the camera zooms in on him, and instead of the music swelling to some nice, positive tones, it's almost foreboding, mimicking the mixed feelings swirling in Mike's brain. His face also kind of looks.... weird like he's unsure, or maybe he's disappointed? Nervous? idk

I would understand this to be a little romantic if he smiles, but jesus, he does not crack a single grin at this part.

It almost seems like he's deciding to do something he doesn't really want to. I think he was completely content with the fact that she helped them, but didn't want to do anything about it because he's totally fine being on good terms with her, obviously, but not necessarily on romantic terms with her. Maybe he's fine with the fact she doesn't really want to be with him.

However, after Lucas says this stuff, now he's looking over at her and thinking, wait, maybe she does want to be with me.

But instead of a:

Wow, maybe she does want to be with me! :D

It's a:

Oh, so she does want to be with me.

^basically this means Mike decides, based on his encouragement from Lucas rather than his own feelings, that he should talk to her. What can he say to Lucas here? That he doesn't want to? That isn't really an option for him.

Fourth Thing: Okay this is very small but for some reason this scene is interspersed with scenes of Jonathan and Nancy getting almost killed by the mindflayer army like???

Why would they cut from this very tense scene where these beloved characters are about to be killed to this scene between Mike and El where everything is fine!

It's like.,,,, they want the audience to be tense watching them, even if it's not directly for the right reasons. They want the audience to maybe feel the tension in the foreboding nature of the fact that the mindflayer is in the same building as them, meaning there is always some danger lurking in the background.

Okay hope you enjoyed today's byler evidence :) stay tuned for tomorrow's!

[inconspicuousdreamgirl]

I've said it once and i'll say it again robin and vickie is a lazy pairing.

okay so maybe its because i ship ronance but aside from that let me explain why this pairing is so extremely lazy and lacks what other relationships have.

aside from the show being sci-fi and monster/battle focused something it does really well is developing friendships and relationships between characters.

example one: jonathan and nancy's relationship has been developing since season one. we see them pine over eachother in season one and season two until they eventually get together. even in season three and season 4 we see how their relationship develops and how the deal with issues in and outside of the relationship together. this is good character pairing. it has that establishment in season one, the team up and tension in season two and well yeah its just very good writing.

example two: byler. whether you agree its romantic or platonic thats your choice. But we see how much will means to mike in season one and how he is so focused on finding will, in season two we learn more about their friendship and we see mike being super protective over will. and since then there has been this underlying tone of homosexuality for their relationship. if they do end up together the build up and tension over the seasons will make it a really good relationship that once again is established and developed. the same can be said for lumax, elmax, jopper and even the friendship between dustin and steve.

now vickie was just placed into season 4 as robins crush and thats literally it. we see them interact in the first epsidode, which oh my god lacked what I was hoping would be good chemistry and tension. right off the bat this ship/pairing became so uniteresting. to me it feels they only placed her in as a crush and nothing more. also there was literally no establishment or development over the season which is why its lacking. It also is very hard to picture her character in season 5 as they didn’t set her up well or gives us a really cool new character.

from a ronance standpoint it would make alot more sense if they ended up together. we see them interact in season three which establishes their relationship. its also worth mentioning nancy is mentioned in robins coming out scene (this would’ve been the start of good development) we only then see them again when they team up to solve vecnas curse. we see them have to work with eachother closely which leads them to being friends but has alot of tension and angst. this would be a excellent lead up to them being together.

robin is the first openly confirmed queer character which is why the vickie pairing is so disapointing. if they wanted the relationship to have the effect that the other ones do they needed to develop it more. they could have mentioned her in season three while robin is talking to steve, have her walk in the video store when robin and steve are applying to the jobs. but instead they placed the most boring character with no previous connection to robin as her supposed love interest. It just feels super out of place and almost awkward!!

I think all sapphics and gays can agree we actually want to see a well thought out and developed relationship, especially a queer one!!

But who knows my opinion could change when season 5 comes out!! Let’s hope they fix their chemistry and actually make it interesting

[teambyler]

The arrow on Mike's shirt indicates his romantic attention throughout s4

After El is arrested and leaves for the lab, Mike wears a shirt with a triangle over his heart that points toward his left. It points toward Will for much of the season.

Bylers point to the triangle as evidence of his love for Will. It points from Mike's HEART. Costume designer Amy Parris says they put triangles on Robin's shirt as an "easter egg" for LGBT+ representation (timestamp); no reason not to think they custom-made Mike's shirt for a similar reason. The origin of the triangle symbol is the Holocaust, when gay men were forced to wear a pink triangle over the left side of their chest -- the same spot on MIke's shirt.

To test this theory, I reviewed all of s4. (Some of this stuff won't be news to Byler Nation, but some will. Especially the last part!)

Here are all of Mike and Will's "heart-to-heart" scenes. Immediately when El departs, we see a softer, more sensitive Mike. Note that I include one where Mike is only wearing a white T-shirt, which made sense because he was shoveling in the hot desert. There the implied arrow is pointing toward Will; he is always to our left in every frame:

See the exception? Yes, it's EXACTLY the scene where Will is telling Mike that the painting is from El, where Mike is being misdirected away from Will by Will's own actions. This only strengthens the idea that the arrow is significant. Where the arrow's pointing seems to reflect Mike's own romantic attentions over the season. In fact, in the next scene after that conversation, Mike is consistently blocked so that his arrow points AWAY from Will (whereas before at Suzie's house it was more random). AND he is not blocked next to Will, in contrast to how they're almost always paired throughout the show's run:

The other times it's important to look at the blocking is when Mike, Will, and El are in the same scene while he's wearing the shirt. Here are their most significant scenes:

When Mike reunites with El, the arrow points away from Will and then towards El. Again, Will has just lied and attributed the painting to El. But that's the last time it unambiguously points toward her. The "piggyback plan" shot is VERY suggestive of a Byler ending: look at how the circle is around Mike and Will, with El outside it. The pizza scene is interesting: Mike is talking to El and the arrow in some shots points toward El, but in the physical space it is actually pointing toward WILL back in the kitchen. More scenes:

During the monologue while Mike's telling El he loves her, the arrow is conflicted, pointing toward Will but El is also in the middle of the shot. (They could've easily had them on El's other side for a reverse effect.) After that scene, we all know that El is hardly speaking to Mike. By now, the arrow is unambiguously pointing toward Will again. In Max's hospital room while his arm is around El, AGAIN it points toward Will. In Mike and Will's last heart-to-heart scene above, it points toward Will. And of course, in the final scene, not only does it point toward Will, but Mike chooses to stand with Will instead of walk forward with his girlfriend.

Here's another detail I think others haven't caught yet. It's from the van scene. We know that the arrow points away from Will throughout, reflecting how Will is pushing Mike away:

However, remember Jonathan looking at them through the rearview mirror? In THOSE shots, the positioning is what we're used to seeing! The arrow pointing toward Will is implied.

Plus, in the two shots through the mirror, Mike looks at Will, who is looking away. All these shots parallel each other and reflect their mutual misunderstanding: Boy A on the left looks at (and is interested in) the other, but Boy B on the right is looking away (and is uninterested, or so Boy A thinks!).

The way the scene is written, Jonathan represents the outside viewer who knows what is going on more than the two boys do. It has been pointed out that this scene is basically from Will's POV. It therefore makes sense that when we're in Will's space, the arrow points away because he doesn't believe Mike likes him back. But we, as outsiders looking in, see what's actually happening. In this perspective, Mike's eyes -- and heart -- are on Will!

-teambyler

[0daylighthours0]

A Deep Dive into Milkvan and Byler's Development: If Milkvan Was Endgame All Along, Why Was it Written Like This???

SO. I've been rewatching st with my mother, who's never seen it before. And she was a fan of milkvan throughout seasons 1 and 2. Viewing those seasons again I could see why, they're cute. However, come season 3 and INSTANT distaste. And, listen, my mother is not the consciously shipping gal. She simply routes for main character pairings as writers intend, doesn't read between the lines, doesn't nothing. And she does NOT know my own opinions on the pairing. In other words, completely unbiased, uninternet drama influenced eyes. We've now reached season 3 and, after getting through a chunk of it, I asked her,

"so what do you think of Mike and El?"

and she expressed to me that they seem to be, quote:

"not very good together."

She said El's character doesn't suit the way she's acting now (in the first few episodes, concerning Mike), that Mike is more likeable and interesting when he's away from her. She doesn't like the way they ditched the party, and when it comes to their 'making out' the scenes are seen by her from Hopper's perspective (in other words, distasteful). She claimed that they'd be much better characters as friends.

And ya know what, she's right. And I mean like - duh, that's what we've been saying all this time, I'm not stating anything new here. But guys, wouldn't it be strange if the central couple of the show, pivotal that it is liked by audiences and is rooted for by them as they are THE pair, would be so dislikable like this? So uninteresting, so cliche.

I mean, okay, let's do a little mental experiment I like to do to test if I'm not just acting delulu. Let's play a game. In this game, milkvan ARE meant to be endgame. They are in love, they were all along, and they're here to draw in viewers and appease all El stans. Now, seasons 1 and 2 their relationship is honestly fine. Surface level, yeah, people will watch and appreciate them. They perfectly blend in with all the other neat pairings of the seasons, and have their own unique character traits to stand out as a main couple.

Just pretending our mate Will doesn't exist, we now get into season 3. Now, writers have nothing to lose here. If you've finished season 2, you probably like milkvan already. The issue is that they're already together now, so what's the conflict going to be? The arc? And every central couple needs that conflict to stay juicy.

Just take a look:

Jancy: quarrels, struggle to understand one another

Jopper: not yet together, one sided? will they won't they

Lumax: ...

Lumax? Lumax. Huh, guess they were simply together. Some loveable bickering, maintained a friendly dynamic while clearly in closer proximity. Well then, writers can do the same for milkvan right? Well, yes easily. But one might argue that since they are supposed to be THE pairing they need more going on between them than that. So what'll it be? Well, it seems that writers thought,

"hey, why not break them up?"

ok so.. that's a bit risky. I mean you want people to like this ship, if you break them up then that threats: 1. there being a disliking to one or both characters, 2. coming off generic if done incorrectly, 3. the break up might make no sense considering how in love they came off as just a season ago. But hey.. it could work, if done right. Some kind of misunderstanding, similar to Jancy. Maybe an argument leading to a sudden parting. I mean, yeah, Yeah! I can see that. Perhaps Mike is being too overprotective whilst El's trying to sacrifice herself for something, so she NEEDS to separate herself from him attempting to hurt him less. Or, I dunno, something akin. What's crucial is that us, AS THE AUDIENCE, still know them to be deeply in love. I mean, we have to still want them to be together. And we've seen couple trouble before. Just take a look at Lumax season 4 - did you or did you not want the best for both of them as a pair? You most likely did. See, it's doable. So did people like milkvan season 3 the same way, even after a separation plot? No.

Okay well, there are obviously those who'll always love milkvan no matter but, see, season 3 tainted it. "We need to write them like this cause it's more realistic to teenager behavior" my ars. You can make it messy without making it icky. Not only did it sour their unique dynamic, it flabbergastingly stomped on Mike as a character.

Honestly, I feel Mike has always been a mild struggle to write. Season 1 his motivations were 'find Will' (who still doesn't exist in our mind game yet shh) and 'protect El'. This worked well for him. Afterwards though, El and Will became more separate plots to him. But as a main character it remained integral that he be closely linked to them somehow. This sets him apart from Lucas and Dustin, who can easily be given any arc any season as their plots have the flexibility of a side quest nature. Since what Mike does is meant to matter more - with there probably being a better way of phrasing that but you know what I mean - it's harder knowing what he'll do when El and Will (who we'll GET to sh.) are their own separate people. And Mike is just a boy, he doesn't have super powers and he isn't a cop, which leaves there even less for him to do which is of significance. Season 2 writers decided upon having him support Will's arc, making himself of enough relevance by being able to take credit for some Will development in the story, and the plots that surrounded that, and then Mike was thrown a little bone by being the one to come up with the idea of burning those vines in the finale.

Truthfully, you don't really remember Mike's deeds much when reminiscing the series. It isn't like Dustin who's bond with Dart sticks to everyone, or Nancy and Jonathan responsible for kicking out Hawkins Lab. This is due to them, again, being able to traverse all sorts of adventures without limits. But my guy Mike can't do dat. Sadly, this kind of leads to him coming of as a little.. well... insignificant. And I know I know, the Mike truthers are gonna come at my throat. And hey! I love him too. I only want the best for my boy.

This makes season 3 a unique case cause it seems that, for the plot they decided they wanted, writers actually had to almost entirely change his character. I mean mate s2 Mike and s3 Mike are two different peoples, don't even. And I don't believe that the Duffers had their story and character turnouts completely drawn out from the very start at all. If I was to guess, I'd assume they have vague ideas of little plots they plan to include in future, but there is definitely a lot that has come unpredicted or changed throughout st's runtime. And one of those phenomenons are Michael Wheeler. So they decided to make this guy a di-

So they decided to make him more douchy, more movie typical teenage guy. It's not as if he wholly sucked, he didn't, but he didn't really do much. Whined about his girlfriend, separated the party. I mean what even was his arc? (UnLESS–)

You see, if milkvan is written to be loved, then season 3 was strike one. All of its charm was stripped away. It seems they had some cute scenes after their reconciliation, but it's not enough. It's just sort of

"oh, ok, so they're happy with eachother now. yayy."

and Stranger Things should want to be anything but boring. Sure they often enjoy indulging in tropes, but they always do something different with them. Something standoutish. And from this point on milkvan just got dull. Either writers ran out of ideas or lost interest, honestly (still with our mind game of telling ourselves they're meant to be).

But it's okay. Look, so season 3 was a bit rocky, maybe lost a couple of fans for the guys, but it is salvageable. Easily, easily. Looks like we want a plot of Mike struggling to tell El he loves her. Great! Much to work with.

So let's get into it. Season 4! Choices were... made. And, okay, now we can't go any further without bringing in our boy Will.

Mike is intrinsically tied to Will and El and has been from the start. Maybe Will was more of an accident. Maybe s1 Will was just a plot device for Mike, then s2 Will was a plot device again and Mike needed to be there as the main boy character. Come season 3 and it seems their relationship still matters. Will was sidelined - hard - so most of Mike's moments revolved around El. But as his bond with Mike is the only that's been properly built up, that's the only friend we'll get him interacting with in a way that matters. So the Mike and Will tie continues!

But that does not have to be the case for season 4. Now the writers have a chance.

They made Will gay.

Ok so.. ok so yeah that's fine. Yeah! I mean they didn't have to do that, might put them in hot water with the bylers since milkvan is their golden beauty but.. you know what no no that's okay. He's been hinted at being queer since episode 1, why not make it canon! Cool that works. Explore that, especially since we now have Vecna who can easily target Will for this. Give him a boyfriend! Or a guy crush. He's at a new school now? That's cool. Maybe we can explore some new male character Will's taken interest in. Hey maybe he meets someone who interests him which rises to surface his whole sexuality plot and-

he's in love with Mike.

Ok. No. No. What are you doing? What do you mean?? You didn't have to do that. Strike- strike EFING TWO mates! Strike. 👏 efing. 👏 2!

This was part 1. I am tired and gots to get my ars in bed. But ohohoh, do not worry. I am just getting started.

[dapperapple]

Mike's crush on El does not necessarily contradict him being gay rather than bi

I wanna start off by clarifying that if you see Mike Wheeler as bisexual rather than gay, THAT'S 1000% VALID don't let anyone take that from you babe

this is just my perspective as a lesbian who thought she was definitely straight until the end of 10th grade (age 16, a bit older than Mike and Will are in canon)

I was rewatching a lot of scenes from the show, mainly s2 and s3, to see if I thought that Mike's feelings for El came across as weird/forced or if their relationship felt off

and honestly it left me (a Byler shipper) pretty confused at first

because YES there are a lot of odd things about his feelings and their relationship

BUT ALSO

there are a few moments that are so cute and feel so genuine I didn't know what to do with them for a sec

mainly all the scenes where they're together at the Snowball dance

because that shit seems real to me, it's cute as fuck, that is a Mileven win right there if there ever was one

and honestly, the forehead touch when she and the Byers are about to leave, and again when they reunite in s4

dude that shit is so sweet okay

(Mileven shippers are valid even if I disagree with it for the narrative)

ANYWAYS here's where my personal experience comes in to help out with my confusion over this

Mike in s1 feels the most obviously comp-het to me

because I had a big crush on a boy in kindergarten, another in gr2/3

I didn't even know what gay people were, I knew girls liked boys, so if a boy was my friendly, and nice to me instead of mean, I probably would've liked him or thought I liked him

Mike in seasons 2-4 reminds me of myself in gr7/8

the most intense crush I had on a guy was in gr7/8

I was more used to being friendly with guys at this point but this guy was becoming a close friend of mine

a cute confident guy who was nice, funny, and taking an active interest in me as a person was like wooaahh

I really do believe that Mike unintenionally idolized El, putting her up on this pedestal, with his self esteem all wrapped up in her liking him back

but I also don't think that's his fault, when you're young you don't know any better

the pressure to date starts to increase a bit, and low self esteem is kicking your ass

I did the exact same thing with the guy I liked, I had this whole other version of him in my head and I started liking him less and less the more he didn't act like that ideal

(insert Mike's behavior towards El after she assaulted Angela)

even after I figured out that the kind of person and the kind of connection I wanted in a relationship was something I was far more likely to find with a girl, I still thought I was straight, so it just made me kind of sad

like- I had resigned myself to the fact that I would struggle to find a guy that I TRULY liked

maybe it was lingering internalized homophobia, idk, I had lots of gay friends, but I just hadn't felt that way about any girl at all before, I didn't think I was capable of being attracted to girls

and then there was her

we became very close friends, she was such a kind person, so fucking funny, an incredibly skilled artist, and absolutely gorgeous

and it finally clicked

finally my mind registered the fact that I COULD be attracted to girls

I still consider her my first love

and then there was no turning back

WHICH IS WHY

I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if it takes Will coming out to Mike/the party in order for him to consider Will romantically

not because he isn't already in love with him subconsciously

but because I don't think he has registered it as a possibility for EITHER of them

moral of the story:

COMPULSIVE HETEROSEXUALITY IS REAL GUYS AND IT CAN FEEL MORE REAL THAN YOU'D EXPECT

especially since when you're young, the differences between boys and girls (both physically and how we're socialized) are much less apparent

MIKE WHEELER I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE (because me too!!)