#i just think byler is much more interesting

[lunabug2004]

I want to start this by saying I'm not completely anti-Mileven. I do think it's possible that Mileven could be endgame and I'd still be mostly happy. Some stuff wouldn't really make sense to me but it's whatever, I can probably live with that. That being said,

if Mileven is endgame, it'd be so terribly boring.

The same thing over and over, with them being separated and brought back together every single season, and then also the whole "I love you" issue being recycled from s3 to s4 for no apparent reason. The same couple people thought were adorable by the end of season 1 are not going to be the couple everyone thinks is adorable by the end of s5. I'm sorry but by this point, Mileven are the most boring choice of an endgame couple.

[butterflysonnets]

yes i'm rooting for m*leven breakup because byler is neat but mostly? i'm rooting for m*leven breakup for the sake of el and mike.

to me, their romance was always a puppy love born out of a combination of social pressures, naïve curiosity, and a lack of true understanding regarding intimacy and romantic love and what it really is. it was real in that they do truly, deeply care about each other and they are close friends, maybe even shared an attraction, but a maturing romance is so much more than that. they've grown up and out of being boyfriend/girlfriend, and that's okay! i think television/film needs to show more often that most of us don't have definite "soulmates" or first childhood loves that we spend our whole lives with. it doesn't mean these relationships meant nothing and didn't impact us, it just means they've run their course and that something else is in the cards, and this is part of life!

i've always felt el was at her best and most confident self when broken up with mike, discovering who she was and what she liked alongside another girl her age instead of just relying on mike for mentorship on how to live in the real world. she deserves more of an opportunity to find herself, her autonomy, and her independence, and to love who she is, and she's made it clear she's felt insecure in the relationship with mike because she isn't being loved and understood the way she wants, needs, and deserves from someone who is her partner.

also, it's okay if mike doesn't love her in "the way he should". he is not obligated to love her romantically and stay in a relationship with her just because she's a girl, because she "needed someone", or because he cares about her a lot. he shouldn't be pressured into a romance if it's not truly coming from his heart. he deserves freedom to find out and honour who he is, too, instead of just staying in his non-functional first relationship — one he got into as a child, essentially — and defining himself that way because it's what's expected when a boy and a girl are close. he loves her in some way, yes, but it's okay if he doesn't feel comfortable or secure being her boyfriend anymore, for whatever reason that is. he's felt insecure too, and that's valid and it matters.

they are their own people and are steadily growing and changing every day. they need time to figure out who those people are, and it's become clear (at least in my opinion) that those people aren't meant to be a couple at this stage.

they deserve freedom. they deserve to grow up and be authentic to themselves and not feel like they need to lie for the sake of a relationship. they deserve to move on from this version of their relationship that isn't making them happy and rekindle the best part of their bond: their strong, beautiful friendship. they don't have to be a couple if it doesn't make them stronger and better and happier people.

i think it would be healthy and wonderful for a show, especially one consumed frequently by young adults, to show a relationship starting, progressing, and ending on good terms in this way. sometimes things don't work out, and that is okay.

[chirpsythismorning]

What they're saying is s5 is going to have Hawkins High School as one of the locations for the plot. What I'm hearing is jealous Mike opportunities...

[miikewheelers]

fellow bylers, i have a question for y'all that i hope to god asking will help me settle this internal debate i've been having with myself once and for all:

[reluctantbylerblog]

…

[miwiheroes]

Byler + Closet Imagery

Just wanted to show just how much closet imagery and references there are in stranger things and how it's super obvious, that it's kind of insane that it goes over the GA's heads so much. It's mostly with Mike as well, funnily enough.

Closet imagery has been used in media over the years to show that a character might be gay but the audience/the other characters just don't know it yet.

For example, it was used here in Paper Girls (2022) for KJ who was not out as gay yet.

It was also used for Eyewitness (2016) with Lukas who also has internalised homophobia and we already know that Byler has had a parallel to Eyewitness before.

So, it's interesting that this closet imagery has been used for Mike and Byler ever since the show began in Season 1. Let's look at all the ways it has been used and how insane these are that some people deny them because UHHHH....

1. Mike hides El in his closet

Karen: "With all this that's been going on, with Will, I can't imagine what it's been like for you... i just-- want you to feel like you can talk to me. i never want you to feel like you have to hide anything from me. i'm here for you. okay?"

Mike: *is hiding El in the closet* *a noise comes from the closet after Karen says these things* *he lies about it* *Karen then hugs Mike later on when Will 'dies' HADGSJHDG*

2. Argues with El in a closet

I find it so funny how the framing here is El literally between Mike and some male dummy and then she grabs it from him LMAOO i love cinematography.

Mike: 'You are the most important thing to me in the worl-'

El: *interrupts him* 'What if [Hopper's] right?'

Mike: *feels attacked as she questions the legitimacy of their relationship while she holds a male dummy in the closet* "No, no no no. He's just some angry old man who hates joy."

Why are you questioning the sanity of someone instead of using actual arguments for your relationship?? Oh that's right, you're in the closet <3

3. Kisses El in front of a closet

Particularly, this is Will's closet as well.

El: "I love you too" *kisses Mike*

Mike: *makes disgusted/ confused face* *doesn't kiss back and has his eyes open* *has the light coming from the closet framed on his head as if he's realised something.*

El: *walks away smiling*

Mike: *looks to the side confused with an open closet next to him* *thinks What is wrong with me?/ What just happened here? (original script)*

Also the music is "The First I love You" which is the same music they use in a scene where Robin comes out of the closet.

4. Mike reads a letter from El in front of a lit up closet

Bro is reading a note with RAINBOWS ON IT and then the camera pans to him reading with a literal open closet which is lit up right next to him. How is this not blatant queer-coding??

Also Mike: *panics in front of a closet which has a ray of light shining on him* *has a one-way sign pointing into the closet which is revealed when he bends down*

I am going insane at this it's so funny

5. Argues with his bestie bro when a song called "In The Closet" plays

aka arguing with Will about how he sabotaged your day by ignoring you instead of your gf getting bullied x

Will: "Well we used to be best friends!"

Mike: *looks devastated as a song called "In The Closet (at Rink O' Mania)" plays when the camera goes back to him* "Well maybe you should've reached out more, I don't know. Why is this on me? Why am I the bad guy?"

El: *is hiding from Mike in a closet*

Why are you suddenly switching the blame Mike??? Oh girl you're a little too defensive

6. Mike and Will have a heart-to-heart in front of an open closet

Mike: "No, no you didn't deserve anything... Hawkins isn't the same without you... Maybe I was worrying too much about El... felt like I lost you or something... Friends, 🥺❤️ best friends."

All while Will is tearing up in front of a closet (also the picture here on the left literally has them framed on either side of an open closet WDYMMM)

Anyways,

Byler Endgame

[love-byers]

....wait . there are people who don't think the show is centered around will? there are people who don't think a core part of s5 will be wills culmination as a character?? there are people who don't think the entire supernatural plot will circle back to will???

besides the fact that the duffers LITERALLY CONFIRMED that will is the center of s5...

the show itself literally tells you. that is the narrative they've been pushing the entire time.

the entire first season is about finding will. every single plotline is connected to finding will.

mike and the boys are using el to find will

jonathan and nancy are working together to hunt the monster they believe has taken will and barb

joyce is trying to communicate with will to find out where he is and how to save him

hopper is a cop investigating the case, and eventually he and joyce team up to investigate further into the lab conspiracy, believing it's tied to wills disappearance

a massive chunk of s2 is about wills connection to the upside down. he's being hunted by the mind flayer and used as a spy, causing a lot of the conflict but also leading to the resolution.

now that we know vecna was behind all of that, that open so many doors for will in s5. if you use your fucking peanut brain for 5 seconds you'll realize there are lots of things we don't know surrounding will and vecna that will come to light in s5. vecna specifically sought will out and hunted him down. remember s2?

"It wanted to kill you?"

"Not me. Everyone else."

we're also getting flashbacks of will in the upside down so we can see exactly what happened to him the week he was there. clearly there's something important we don't know about. the upside down is literally frozen on the day will went missing. but will isn't important and won't be a big part of s5?

s3 is the first time will is less significant to the plot. he still has the connection to the mind flayer and his ability to sense it is still relevant to the story and helps push it along. bit still, he had significantly less lines and screen time. much of his story is portrayed as him struggling to 'grow up' and not being interested in romance like the others. there are several jokes that present will as simply being childish and reluctant to grow out of it. which a lot of people found sort of annoying. i remember seeing a lot of people enjoying s3, but wishing will had more depth and importance.

but we now know that that's not the whole truth. all of that, him being annoyed and disinterested by romance, just wanting to play dnd with the party, and fighting with mike was all subtext leading into his sexuality and the fact that he's in love with mike. that's been confirmed by actors and the duffers themselves. though will's sexuality was always hinted at, it wasn't meant to fully come to light until s4. so they tried to pass it off as will just being childish. they tried to pass of mike and wills conflict as only being about dnd and growing up. a prime example of this is will tearing down castle byers after his fight with mike. he rips the photo of the core 4 as the ghostbusters down the middle, aka where he and mike are in the center. that is easily passed off as just being about the friend group. people BELIEVED that it was just about the friend group, and that there was no way will was in love with mike. but it's now literally confirmed that he is. like it's insane how many people never even considered that as a possibility. people literally just tune out parts of the show they don't immediately find interesting. i've seen so many comments on byler scenes, for example "it's not my fault you don't like girls", saying "wait i don't remember this scene when did he say that??" people just don't pay attention or think deeper than surface level, which in this case is okay because wills sexuality was meant to be something you slowly realized. the problem comes when people just start denying its significance and refusing to see it for what it is.

if you take in all of will's story with mike and whittle it down to "stupid gay crush on best friend" i don't know what show YOUVE been watching. did you forget that will only remembered his mom and mike when he was possessed and lost his memory? that mike recounting the day they met was enough for will to break through and communicate while possessed? that will puts mikes happiness before his own? that will has literally said he needs mike and always will?

it's not a crush that will can just get over. you know we actually have an example of a simple crush and it's dustin and max. how did that work out? dustin got over max very quickly and it's no biggie. he didn't go on a monologue about how he needs max and always will. he just thought she was cool and pretty.

also, the show spends so much time getting the audience to feel bad for will and want to see him happy. you are SUPPOSED to like him. you are supposed to have empathy for him. will is written to be extremely gentle, kind, and selfless.

will is too nice to say anything bad about anyone, even after being viscously bullied and called slurs for years. even by his own father, WHO HE STILL CANT TALK BAD ABOUT!!!

no matter how much will suffers, he remains kind and selfless. he gave a girl his tonka truck knowing joyce couldn't by him another one. mike says they shouldn't give up on looking for him because will sacrificed himself in dnd to save the party. remember the whole thing in s2 about joyce getting on will for constantly apologizing even when he did nothing wrong? there is no point to that besides evoking empathy for him!!!!! he is sweet and sensitive and doesn't deserve any of this!!!!!!!!

and about bylers being delusional for thinking will and mikes relationship will be a big part of s5 and the culmination of everything in a show about monsters killing people, here's a quote from shawn levy, who has directed many stranger things episodes

"People talk about mythology and The Upside Down, and all that is huge, but the magic of S5 are the characters who find sense of belonging with other and through that connection, become heroes."

everyone loves the stranger things relationships until they're queer. when they're queer suddenly there's no time for romance in a sci fi show, the writers actually suck, and they're just baiting. lumax and their love for each other was a core plot of the season where the big bad was trying to kill her all season. there is an entire plot point about max's memory of kissing lucas at the snow ball saving her life. in a show like this, there is time for relationships and supernatural stuff because they are interwoven when the time comes. they can do the exact same thing with byler in s5. s5 is going to be the longest season thus far. there will definitely be time for relationship development.

so yeah. call me delusional but i don't think the show will end with wills feelings for mike unresolved or with them just evaporating. given everything we know about s5 (relationships and finding belonging being an important factor, noah and finn constantly filming together, leakers saying will has a love interest) and everything we already know about the relationship formulas in ST, literally all the signs are pointing to byler. the only rebuttal people have is calling us delusional because the writers just wouldn't do that. if you actually push past the heteronormativity and consider the fact that the duffers do want to represent queer people in a way that doesn't reinforce the idea that we can never find love or be happy, things will start making a lot more sense.

i'm sorry to have to say this about mike but mike is a character presumed straight who hasn't been super relevant in the supernatural plot for 2 seasons now, just as long as will. his significant plot points are related to el or will. relationship development. and unlike will, he has been an ACTUAL asshole!!!! lots of people stopped liking mike as much after s2 because of his personality change. (ofc i still love mike, but there's been multiple plot lines about mike being a dick for no reason and apologizing for it) but no one has VISCERAL hatred for him like they do will byers. not saying mike deserves hate, cause he certainly doesn't, but the problems people have with will, they only have with will. any other character doing it is fine. 2 seaons of wills feelings for mike is boring and distracting but 2 seasons of mike having the same 'i love you' problems with el isn't?

i'm not saying the sudden hate for will is because it's now clear that he's gay but im kind of saying it

some people can't sympathize with queer issues because they don't care about queer people. they don't empathize with queer people. queer issues bore them.

will byers i will ALWAYS defend you. you are safe with me pookie

[kiirotoao]

An argument I see against Byler that irks me, specifically about Will’s storyline, is that some people think that Will’s story is about him accepting himself. Acceptation is absolutely not part of his storyline, and here’s why.

Will has been established as a queer character. Quick as it was, Joyce mentioned Lonnie’s remarks about Will in the very first episode of season 1. Will has also been drafted as a kid dealing with his sexuality. Will knows about what people say about him, and he doesn’t seem to outwardly fight it, alongside much other forms of confrontation towards himself.

Will deals more with the struggle of being different, not of misunderstanding, not of doubting, being.

A great contrast in another series that shows a character learning to accept himself is none other than Nick Nelson in Heartstopper (Webtoon or Netflix - but for the sake of finding scene packs more easily, though, I will be quoting from the Netflix adaptation).

Nick outwardly deals with uncertainty regarding his sexuality. He’s covered in doubtful characters’ judgements, clearly a jock of whom are stereotypically straight, and as Elle would say it, he’s “the straightest person I have ever seen.”

He’s not established with a queer lens. In fact, for a very long time, Charlie thinks that he has no chance with Nick because he doesn’t think that Nick could ever like him like that. But then, in comes Nick’s perspective. He realizes that he’s getting really close to Charlie, and his mom tells him that he’s “much more himself” around Charlie. Then, of course, the meme of Nick taking the “am I gay?” quiz and crying over his result. And then in comes the day after his and Charlie’s first kiss when Nick expresses that he’s “so confused,” not that he didn’t like it, it’s just difficult for him when he’s only ever seemed to like girls before.

That is how you explore an arc of discovering one’s sexuality: show confusion from other characters, self-doubt, and how the character feels working through it. Will Byers has received no such treatment.

He’s not confused, self-doubtful, nor shown working through his sexuality. It’s just always been, and the other characters around him reinforce that. The fact that other characters make remarks. The fact that other characters know without Will telling them anything. The fact that Will has never continued returning any affection to a girl who showed interest in him. The fact that Will never gets a girlfriend. The fact that we know that Will was making that painting for Mike alone.

Plus, if being accepted is Will’s whole storyline culmination, where does he go now that Jonathan in season 4 has accepted him and promises to love him no matter what? That’s it? He’s going to have nothing greater happen to him in season 5 and/or they’re going to reinforce a point they already did so sweetly? Yeah. I mean, I’m not a writer, but, yeah. Sure.

Byler is endgame because Will is going to learn that he no longer needs to just accept himself but see himself in who he is.

[pinksmonkey]

Posting my Ultimate Byler Evidence/Analysis List here directly because it probably makes it more convenient and I should have done this a while ago. XD

There is so much proof for Byler being endgame in S5 of Stranger Things. They are so cute together, and so much in the show has been building up to their relationship. I just wanted to share some of my favourite Byler analyses, because they are so cool, detailed, and in-depth. I love reading about all the hints, symbolism, and subtext for Byler, it's amazing how much thought must have been put into all these things. Why go through all the effort of adding these details if they aren't actually going anywhere with them? Mike is so queercoded, and they are truly in love with each other.

🫥 Just gonna leave some good Byler analyses here 🤐

Most of the links go to written Tumblr posts, and a couple of them are Reddit posts. So it's a lot of reading. If you prefer watching videos over reading, I highlighted my Byler YouTube playlist in green so it's easy to find.

And apologies for any of the links that aren't working, I know some of the posts have been deleted now sadly, but there's no way I'm re-numbering all these so I'm just leaving them in. My fellow Bylers, please stop deleting your amazing posts. ;-;

So anyway, here is the list of some of my favourite Byler evidence/analyses of all time (not in any particular order):

1. Mike's Season 4 Monologue To El

2. Camera Roll Byler Proof Part 3

3. Mike's Monologue and Milkvan

4. Mostly Byler Post Index

5. Dawson's Creek Parallel

6. "My Experience With Stranger Things"

7. What Ollie Learned From Film School

8. Byler Music Analysis

9. Why Don't The Duffers Discuss This?

10. ST Theories Masterpost

11. If Byler Isn't Endgame Then Someone Screwed Up

12. Byler Crumbs From The Cast and Crew

13. Favourite Combination of Endgame Byler Proof

14. I Doubt Byler Then I Remember This

15. The Fact That We Have This Interview

16. You Know Your Ship is Endgame When

17. Mostly Byler Post Index 2

18. Losing Hope Of Byler Endgame?

19. Why I Think Byler is Endgame

20. So Many Thoughts on This

21. Mike's Wall Art

22. Painting Miscommunication Leading to Mike's Monologue Coded

23. Yes, That Scene Did Foreshadow Mike's Monologue as Disingenuous

24. Mike's Monologue Didn't Sit Right With Me

25. Blue And Yellow Pen

26. That Tweet Is So Sweet

27. Heart Eyes, Literally

28. "My Process of Realizing Byler is Real"

29. Looking at Will, Not El

30. High School Musical Parallel

31. Said It Before and I'll Say It Again

32. Delusional Milkdud?

33. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 1

34. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 2

35. For When You Are Doubting Byler

36. Is Mike Bi or Gay?

37. Fully Convinced

38. The Ultimate Byler Playlist (my Byler YouTube playlist)

39. 100% Confident

40. Mike in S4 and S2

41. Mike Is Angry With Himself

42. It's Been A Year, Mike

43. Rink-O-Mania Remodel

44. The Development Of Will And Mike's Relationship

45. Mike's Lies

46. El Was Holding So Much In

47. Flickergate + Lettergate

48. Did Mike Ever Like El Romantically?

49. Mike Is Stupid

50. Byler Won't Write Itself

51. What's The Alternative Explanation?

52. Comparing Mileven and Byler

53. It Was Always About Them

54. Mike Is Not Ok

55. He Has A Love Interest

56. Will's Happy Ending

57. Trying To Be Normal

58. It's Not That Milevens Are Homophobic

59. Byler Is Reality

60. A Proper Look At El's Shrine To Mike

61. Mileven Through The Seasons

62. Suspicious

63. I Can't Doubt Byler

64. D&D Soulmates

65. Let's Talk Phones

66. Not Delusional

67. What Do They Want?

68. The Main Character

69. Mike's Mental Health

70. So Close

71. This Look Confirms Byler Isn't One Sided

72. Mileven Is Bones

73. They Don't Care About Mileven?

74. The Airport Hug Will Always Be Famous

75. The Monologue Mystery, Why Did They Lose?

76. The Cabin Scene

77. Why Couldn't Mike Say It For 2 Seasons?

78. He Was Trying To Find Will

79. Mike The Surfer Boy

80. Mike Definitely Shows Attraction To Girls

81. The Cast Knows

82. Mileven Loses On All Fronts

83. The Bouquet

84. 53 Minutes And 5 Seconds

85. Pink Panther

86. El And Choice

87. Will's Spotify Playlist

88. He'll Come Crawling Back To You, Begging For Forgiveness

89. Mike's Character Arc Prediction

90. It's The Same Look

91. Will's Truly Happy Ending

92. That's The Same Look, Right?

93. You're The Heart

94. Mike And El's Relationship In S4 Was Really Weird

95. Fireworks Parallel

96. Mileven Has Been Built Up For 4 Seasons

97. Not Stupid: The Fate of Mileven and Byler

98. This Suddenly Makes So Much Sense

99. Metaphors In Filmmaking

And unfortunately Tumblr will only let me add 100 links per post, so when I've posted part 2 of this list, I'll link it here: Part 2

[teambyler]

The arrow on Mike's shirt indicates his romantic attention throughout s4

After El is arrested and leaves for the lab, Mike wears a shirt with a triangle over his heart that points toward his left. It points toward Will for much of the season.

Bylers point to the triangle as evidence of his love for Will. It points from Mike's HEART. Costume designer Amy Parris says they put triangles on Robin's shirt as an "easter egg" for LGBT+ representation (timestamp); no reason not to think they custom-made Mike's shirt for a similar reason. The origin of the triangle symbol is the Holocaust, when gay men were forced to wear a pink triangle over the left side of their chest -- the same spot on MIke's shirt.

To test this theory, I reviewed all of s4. (Some of this stuff won't be news to Byler Nation, but some will. Especially the last part!)

Here are all of Mike and Will's "heart-to-heart" scenes. Immediately when El departs, we see a softer, more sensitive Mike. Note that I include one where Mike is only wearing a white T-shirt, which made sense because he was shoveling in the hot desert. There the implied arrow is pointing toward Will; he is always to our left in every frame:

See the exception? Yes, it's EXACTLY the scene where Will is telling Mike that the painting is from El, where Mike is being misdirected away from Will by Will's own actions. This only strengthens the idea that the arrow is significant. Where the arrow's pointing seems to reflect Mike's own romantic attentions over the season. In fact, in the next scene after that conversation, Mike is consistently blocked so that his arrow points AWAY from Will (whereas before at Suzie's house it was more random). AND he is not blocked next to Will, in contrast to how they're almost always paired throughout the show's run:

The other times it's important to look at the blocking is when Mike, Will, and El are in the same scene while he's wearing the shirt. Here are their most significant scenes:

When Mike reunites with El, the arrow points away from Will and then towards El. Again, Will has just lied and attributed the painting to El. But that's the last time it unambiguously points toward her. The "piggyback plan" shot is VERY suggestive of a Byler ending: look at how the circle is around Mike and Will, with El outside it. The pizza scene is interesting: Mike is talking to El and the arrow in some shots points toward El, but in the physical space it is actually pointing toward WILL back in the kitchen. More scenes:

During the monologue while Mike's telling El he loves her, the arrow is conflicted, pointing toward Will but El is also in the middle of the shot. (They could've easily had them on El's other side for a reverse effect.) After that scene, we all know that El is hardly speaking to Mike. By now, the arrow is unambiguously pointing toward Will again. In Max's hospital room while his arm is around El, AGAIN it points toward Will. In Mike and Will's last heart-to-heart scene above, it points toward Will. And of course, in the final scene, not only does it point toward Will, but Mike chooses to stand with Will instead of walk forward with his girlfriend.

Here's another detail I think others haven't caught yet. It's from the van scene. We know that the arrow points away from Will throughout, reflecting how Will is pushing Mike away:

However, remember Jonathan looking at them through the rearview mirror? In THOSE shots, the positioning is what we're used to seeing! The arrow pointing toward Will is implied.

Plus, in the two shots through the mirror, Mike looks at Will, who is looking away. All these shots parallel each other and reflect their mutual misunderstanding: Boy A on the left looks at (and is interested in) the other, but Boy B on the right is looking away (and is uninterested, or so Boy A thinks!).

The way the scene is written, Jonathan represents the outside viewer who knows what is going on more than the two boys do. It has been pointed out that this scene is basically from Will's POV. It therefore makes sense that when we're in Will's space, the arrow points away because he doesn't believe Mike likes him back. But we, as outsiders looking in, see what's actually happening. In this perspective, Mike's eyes -- and heart -- are on Will!

-teambyler

[0daylighthours0]

A Deep Dive into Milkvan and Byler's Development: If Milkvan Was Endgame All Along, Why Was it Written Like This???

SO. I've been rewatching st with my mother, who's never seen it before. And she was a fan of milkvan throughout seasons 1 and 2. Viewing those seasons again I could see why, they're cute. However, come season 3 and INSTANT distaste. And, listen, my mother is not the consciously shipping gal. She simply routes for main character pairings as writers intend, doesn't read between the lines, doesn't nothing. And she does NOT know my own opinions on the pairing. In other words, completely unbiased, uninternet drama influenced eyes. We've now reached season 3 and, after getting through a chunk of it, I asked her,

"so what do you think of Mike and El?"

and she expressed to me that they seem to be, quote:

"not very good together."

She said El's character doesn't suit the way she's acting now (in the first few episodes, concerning Mike), that Mike is more likeable and interesting when he's away from her. She doesn't like the way they ditched the party, and when it comes to their 'making out' the scenes are seen by her from Hopper's perspective (in other words, distasteful). She claimed that they'd be much better characters as friends.

And ya know what, she's right. And I mean like - duh, that's what we've been saying all this time, I'm not stating anything new here. But guys, wouldn't it be strange if the central couple of the show, pivotal that it is liked by audiences and is rooted for by them as they are THE pair, would be so dislikable like this? So uninteresting, so cliche.

I mean, okay, let's do a little mental experiment I like to do to test if I'm not just acting delulu. Let's play a game. In this game, milkvan ARE meant to be endgame. They are in love, they were all along, and they're here to draw in viewers and appease all El stans. Now, seasons 1 and 2 their relationship is honestly fine. Surface level, yeah, people will watch and appreciate them. They perfectly blend in with all the other neat pairings of the seasons, and have their own unique character traits to stand out as a main couple.

Just pretending our mate Will doesn't exist, we now get into season 3. Now, writers have nothing to lose here. If you've finished season 2, you probably like milkvan already. The issue is that they're already together now, so what's the conflict going to be? The arc? And every central couple needs that conflict to stay juicy.

Just take a look:

Jancy: quarrels, struggle to understand one another

Jopper: not yet together, one sided? will they won't they

Lumax: ...

Lumax? Lumax. Huh, guess they were simply together. Some loveable bickering, maintained a friendly dynamic while clearly in closer proximity. Well then, writers can do the same for milkvan right? Well, yes easily. But one might argue that since they are supposed to be THE pairing they need more going on between them than that. So what'll it be? Well, it seems that writers thought,

"hey, why not break them up?"

ok so.. that's a bit risky. I mean you want people to like this ship, if you break them up then that threats: 1. there being a disliking to one or both characters, 2. coming off generic if done incorrectly, 3. the break up might make no sense considering how in love they came off as just a season ago. But hey.. it could work, if done right. Some kind of misunderstanding, similar to Jancy. Maybe an argument leading to a sudden parting. I mean, yeah, Yeah! I can see that. Perhaps Mike is being too overprotective whilst El's trying to sacrifice herself for something, so she NEEDS to separate herself from him attempting to hurt him less. Or, I dunno, something akin. What's crucial is that us, AS THE AUDIENCE, still know them to be deeply in love. I mean, we have to still want them to be together. And we've seen couple trouble before. Just take a look at Lumax season 4 - did you or did you not want the best for both of them as a pair? You most likely did. See, it's doable. So did people like milkvan season 3 the same way, even after a separation plot? No.

Okay well, there are obviously those who'll always love milkvan no matter but, see, season 3 tainted it. "We need to write them like this cause it's more realistic to teenager behavior" my ars. You can make it messy without making it icky. Not only did it sour their unique dynamic, it flabbergastingly stomped on Mike as a character.

Honestly, I feel Mike has always been a mild struggle to write. Season 1 his motivations were 'find Will' (who still doesn't exist in our mind game yet shh) and 'protect El'. This worked well for him. Afterwards though, El and Will became more separate plots to him. But as a main character it remained integral that he be closely linked to them somehow. This sets him apart from Lucas and Dustin, who can easily be given any arc any season as their plots have the flexibility of a side quest nature. Since what Mike does is meant to matter more - with there probably being a better way of phrasing that but you know what I mean - it's harder knowing what he'll do when El and Will (who we'll GET to sh.) are their own separate people. And Mike is just a boy, he doesn't have super powers and he isn't a cop, which leaves there even less for him to do which is of significance. Season 2 writers decided upon having him support Will's arc, making himself of enough relevance by being able to take credit for some Will development in the story, and the plots that surrounded that, and then Mike was thrown a little bone by being the one to come up with the idea of burning those vines in the finale.

Truthfully, you don't really remember Mike's deeds much when reminiscing the series. It isn't like Dustin who's bond with Dart sticks to everyone, or Nancy and Jonathan responsible for kicking out Hawkins Lab. This is due to them, again, being able to traverse all sorts of adventures without limits. But my guy Mike can't do dat. Sadly, this kind of leads to him coming of as a little.. well... insignificant. And I know I know, the Mike truthers are gonna come at my throat. And hey! I love him too. I only want the best for my boy.

This makes season 3 a unique case cause it seems that, for the plot they decided they wanted, writers actually had to almost entirely change his character. I mean mate s2 Mike and s3 Mike are two different peoples, don't even. And I don't believe that the Duffers had their story and character turnouts completely drawn out from the very start at all. If I was to guess, I'd assume they have vague ideas of little plots they plan to include in future, but there is definitely a lot that has come unpredicted or changed throughout st's runtime. And one of those phenomenons are Michael Wheeler. So they decided to make this guy a di-

So they decided to make him more douchy, more movie typical teenage guy. It's not as if he wholly sucked, he didn't, but he didn't really do much. Whined about his girlfriend, separated the party. I mean what even was his arc? (UnLESS–)

You see, if milkvan is written to be loved, then season 3 was strike one. All of its charm was stripped away. It seems they had some cute scenes after their reconciliation, but it's not enough. It's just sort of

"oh, ok, so they're happy with eachother now. yayy."

and Stranger Things should want to be anything but boring. Sure they often enjoy indulging in tropes, but they always do something different with them. Something standoutish. And from this point on milkvan just got dull. Either writers ran out of ideas or lost interest, honestly (still with our mind game of telling ourselves they're meant to be).

But it's okay. Look, so season 3 was a bit rocky, maybe lost a couple of fans for the guys, but it is salvageable. Easily, easily. Looks like we want a plot of Mike struggling to tell El he loves her. Great! Much to work with.

So let's get into it. Season 4! Choices were... made. And, okay, now we can't go any further without bringing in our boy Will.

Mike is intrinsically tied to Will and El and has been from the start. Maybe Will was more of an accident. Maybe s1 Will was just a plot device for Mike, then s2 Will was a plot device again and Mike needed to be there as the main boy character. Come season 3 and it seems their relationship still matters. Will was sidelined - hard - so most of Mike's moments revolved around El. But as his bond with Mike is the only that's been properly built up, that's the only friend we'll get him interacting with in a way that matters. So the Mike and Will tie continues!

But that does not have to be the case for season 4. Now the writers have a chance.

They made Will gay.

Ok so.. ok so yeah that's fine. Yeah! I mean they didn't have to do that, might put them in hot water with the bylers since milkvan is their golden beauty but.. you know what no no that's okay. He's been hinted at being queer since episode 1, why not make it canon! Cool that works. Explore that, especially since we now have Vecna who can easily target Will for this. Give him a boyfriend! Or a guy crush. He's at a new school now? That's cool. Maybe we can explore some new male character Will's taken interest in. Hey maybe he meets someone who interests him which rises to surface his whole sexuality plot and-

he's in love with Mike.

Ok. No. No. What are you doing? What do you mean?? You didn't have to do that. Strike- strike EFING TWO mates! Strike. 👏 efing. 👏 2!

This was part 1. I am tired and gots to get my ars in bed. But ohohoh, do not worry. I am just getting started.

[byerseason]

my personal opinions on byler & mike’s character

most people believe mike is clueless or at least he just suspects will’s feelings. well, sometimes i agree with that but in general i think mike knows. actually he always knew. let’s look at everything from the beginning.

both mike and will always lived in a small town full of homophobia. we know will personally experienced homophobia from his dad and other people in hawkins. mike and will are friends since kindergarten and mike obviously witnessed all of these homophobia will went through. maybe mike experienced it too, we know ted said “see what happens?” for a reason. especially with lonnie, mike witnessed everything he did to will, we all know will shares everything with mike. so from their point of view, this thing called “homosexuality” is something really bad and all it causes is harm and hate. it’s something forbidden.

now let’s see what happened in all seasons. in season 1, a cool girl magically comes into mike’s life and shows interest in him. “you’re blind, because a girl is not grossed out by you” now mike has a chance to be normal like people expect him to be. and he’s a child, it’s not that deep. he can try. no deep feelings, no love, just be normal.

in season 2 this chance is taken away from mike leaving a trauma to him. after all, el was special and he cares for her so much. and the fact that she sacrificed herself just to save him and his friends is not something we can overlook. and adding to this trauma, something really bad is happening to will and they don’t even know what is it and how to fix it. he does his best, he never leaves his side because it’s something a good friend would do right? it wasn’t that forbidden thing the adults get angry about and it shouldn’t be. after el’s return and will being safe, mike had this chance again. el was here, she was incredible, a superhero who saved will and the world, and she was ready to be in a relationship with him. snowball scene was mike telling will “i’m moving on, you should move on too or we will get hurt by this.” because you know, these things always hurt will and nothing else.

in season 3, mike continues to this “moving on” as we can clearly see. this time a little bit grown up, or at least trying to grow up. distancing himself from will and all his friends, focusing on el all the time and for some reason not being able to maintain a friendship with will while dating el. this speaks volumes actually. it’s both him trying to be normal as expected and distancing himself from will to make sure he is normal too. to me that’s all the “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls.” scene. while mike is fighting back, will makes it harder for both of them without realizing it. i think -like everyone- the ending of season 3 was mike realizing it’s not working and it’s getting serious. he’s growing up, they’re growing up and everything is becoming clearer.

will and el moving to california was a new chance for mike. he ignored will, well at least he tried even though it’s clear he felt his absence especially in school, he didn’t reach out to him thinking maybe this is the chance for both of them to move on. and then el’s letter happened. mike thought will really did it, he moved on, he was able to move on while mike isn’t. if we think deeper, he is even working on a painting for her, something he used to do with mike. so yeah, will is normal, it worked for will, while mike is still dealing with this. when they reunite i think it was much more than just jealousy. disappointment, anger maybe? especially after he saw he brought the painting to the airport. apparently will wasn’t planning on giving all his attention to mike, who was visiting him after months, but he was planning to give the painting to the girl he likes, it was probably the reason of his excitement, not mike. so this is what makes mike want to focus on el more and ignore will during rinkomania scenes. when el mentions angela and will gives a reaction to this, mike is sure he was right and this day is about angela for will.

but he finds out he was wrong. well, the painting is still for a girl but at least he was wrong about angela. will was just upset because mike was being lied to, and he was hurt by mike being distant from him. this is what leads mike to sincerely apologize to will, as always. he always does that, if will says “where is dustin right now?” mike realizes his mistake and tries to fix it. if will says “we used to be best friends” mike realizes his mistake and offers to be best friends again. that’s all their dynamic about.

after mike and el’s fight, mike comes and explains what happened to will but it’s more like he is asking for an advice, he wants will to understand him. “it was a fight that you can’t come back from.” he wants will to agree but he doesn’t, this is when we start to understand mike’s inner struggles. he brings up this topic to will three times. none of these conversations are like two best friends giving each other relationship advices because mike never tells will what is the problem. for some reason he doesn’t want will to know he can’t tell her girlfriend that he loves her. we all know will and mike are sincere enough to tell these things to each other, they always do. but if he can’t, there must be a reason. maybe mike himself doesn’t know the answer either, maybe he doesn’t want will to understand his situation because he thinks will successfully moved on, who knows?

in the desert scene, he brings the topic up again, without mentioning what is “that thing”, but this time will seems like he understands. “sometimes, i think it’s just scary to open up like that, to say how you really feel, especially to the people you care about the most.” mike never mentioned he is struggling to say how he feels but will understand, he always did. this conversation would continue with mike opening up to will if it wasn’t interrupted, so mike brings it up once again for the third time, in the van scene.

this time he is being more open but he is still struggling to say one thing, which will completes for him “you’re scared of losing her.” well, mike was wrong. will wasn’t getting it until.. the painting scene. mike is not stupid, he knows will spent days working on it. he knows eleven doesn’t know about what this painting is about. he knows he doesn’t make el feel like “she is not a mistake at all” especially after their fight, remember that line from the script “she’s already beginning to understand she doesn’t need me, i saw it in her eyes” he knows el doesn’t need him, he knows will well enough to understand he is lying. the way he looks at will admiringly is him thinking “he didn’t move on, we’re still the same.” and also him being aware of what will is doing for him, breaking his own heart and sacrificing himself just to make mike feel better. also, he notices will is sobbing, he looks at him and even if he didn’t how could he not? he had tears in his eyes during all the monologue and he was sobbing right next to him. so is there any reason for mike to not say anything to his best friend sobbing next to him if he didn’t know the reason? the mike i know would immediately ask what was wrong if he was clueless. he knows why will is crying but he doesn’t know what to do about it. mike’s situation is pretty sad when you think about it, he probably feels like he’s stuck.

then we have the desert reunion scene. this time we clearly can see how stuck he feels between el and will, he doesn’t know how to get out of this without hurting any of them, and also himself. the way he looks at them looks like also him being afraid of damaging their bond.

then the monologue scene.. this scene may mean lots of different things, i am not sure either.

it may be mike being aware of what will is doing, how he is sacrificing himself once again, how mike is gonna have to lie and hurt everyone in the end, how the things are gonna be way more complicated or mike realizing he was wrong about thinking will has feelings for him.

my season 5 expectation is seeing a mike wheeler who stops fighting back and embraces his feelings, without hurting both of them.

that’s my point of view that changes almost everyday lol. i don’t know if there are many people who believes mike isn’t clueless so i wanted to share my thoughts. 💛

[glisten-inthedark]

Why it wouldn't make any sense for Byler not to be endgame (Applying only logic to the equation)

Ok, I know that some people might be concerned and I won't sit around and pretend that I'm not. I will, however, point towards a few things that, to me, would mean that everyone in that writers room had terrible lapses in judgment if they ended up not making Byler canon so buckle up because this will be a long post.

Will's misbilief and how he believes he will never find love.

At one point, Will claims he will never fall in love but we'd later learn that surprise surprise, we can't control our hearts.

But it's not that Will assumes he won't find love, it's that he assumes he's not worthy of it. He stated that he sometimes feels like he's a mistake, and that the only person that makes him feel like he isn't is Mike.

So the subtext that we have is that he doesn't believe he'll have a happy ending, he doesn't believe he'll get to find love and be happy. So say the Duffers decide that Byler won't be endgame, what exactly was the purpose of this entire plot line? Torture a kid some more?

Like seriously, he's been through so much already, why do this?

Because doing gives Will, the character we're supposed to root for, a depressing ending. A ending that tells him: you'll never be happy, you're doomed to be forever in love with someone that will never love you back. You don't get your happy ending, you don't get to have what you want.

But not only that, this would be the message the show would be sending the viewers: So one of characters has been through the ringer, has foud out he's gay but oh sorry, he will never be in a happy relationship or find that actually he can be happy. And that's it folks, thanks for watching our show.

2. What Will wants and needs.

I noticed there's this tendency of people downplaying Will's love towards Mike. Maybe because he's young and we have the tendency to assume that the feelings with have around that age aren't lasting, or maybe it's something else, however we need to point out the fact that Will loves Mike Wheeler.

This isn't a crush, this isn't limerence or lust. No, this is love. The writers made a point of showing us that Will loves Mike truly and selflessly. They made a point of showing us that Will already assumes his feelings are and will always be unrequited, so what he wants/what he needs it's to have Mike back in his life.

He was willing to push Mike towards El out of love for him and for her, because he wants Mike to be happy and he doesn't think he could ever give him that, nor does he think Mike wants Will to be the person who gives him that.

The writers showed, through their writing, that Will's feelings are real, are everlasting and unshakable. That Will himself doesn't think he'll ever get over Mike (El - I - Need you and she (I) always will).

So whether you like it or not, Mike is the love of Will's love. So if the writers present some random person as the love interest (which they could've easily done considering they gave us Argyle and the fact Will was in California which is far more accepting than Indiana) it's never going to be enough, because that's not who Will truly loves.

So again, it would send the message that he'll never be truly happy, because the person that makes him the happiest wouldn't be by his side.

3. We have no actual clue about what's happening to Mike

We can chalk it up to lazy writing, or to a character that's all over the place, or maybe, just maybe, to a Mike Wheeler that is complex, that has layers and dimensions.

I don't think it's a coincidence there has been a shift in Mike in the last 2 seasons, because if you pay attention, we have nothing of his inner thoughts. The entire focus of his character has been about El, and maybe that's no accident.

Maybe we don't know what's going on because he's hiding something? And whenever we are presented with facts about him, we don't have all the information.

I already talked about how Mike focusing on El makes sense, because when Will disappeared Mike had to deal with a lot and when Will got back, all these things he buried tried to get back to the surface.

People seem to have a hard time understanding Mike, or acting under the guise he doesn't care about Will or that Will deserves better or seem to think the writers dropped the ball on his character, but maybe there's a reason?

Maybe Mike is a lot harder to grasp? Maybe he's the boy who watched his best friend bike away and not come back? Maybe he's the boy who thought his friend was dead (even for a while).

Perhaps he's the kid who so desperately needed to protect and shield and comfort his friend because nothing in the world was right if his friend was hurting?

Maybe Mike is the boy who doesn't really feels what he should for his girlfriend? Maybe she kisses him and he's confused, doesn't close his eyes because it doesn't feel right?

Is he the boy who was so afraid of what it meant to care so much for another boy, that he decided to compartmentalize so he felt less? Because losing Will once almost destroyed him, and sometimes it's easier if we do the pushing away ourselves?

Maybe he latched onto El because it was easier, it was safer, because it's right to like girls and not boys.

And maybe the Mike of season 2 already had an inkling but didn't know for sure, but when posed with the same thing in a different time-frame was hit with another, deeper meaning.

If we can feel empathy for Steve, or if we can acknowledge Max's trauma, or if we can understand Joyce's one track mind or Hopper's temper or Jonathan's distant behavior, we should grace a child/teen that has no one to turn to with the same grace.

[will80sbyers]

What makes you believe that byler is real? I ship Mileven personally, but I'm trying to understand byler shippers' logic, because a lot of the time it feels like it makes no sense.

I personally think there are some scenes in the show and there are some choices that the writers made that are telling us that the plot of the show is going towards Will getting a "pay off", in terms of writing, at the end of the show and Mike and El finding out they are better as friends instead and Mike discovering he has romantic feelings for Will!

The writers have emphasized Will's sadness in relation to Mike and El as a couple both thematically and visually, in the writing & filming of the show there are too many scenes like this especially in season 3 and 4 they have made it clear that he will never be happy if Mike and El are the endgame relationship, even during Mike's love monologue after he supposedly decided that he was ok with El having his own feelings for Mike by saying that the painting was a thoughtful gift from El when it wasn't... They put a shot of Will's sad face in the middle of the monologue, and also he was framed behind Mike when he said "I love you" which in film is a EXTREMELY weird choice unless it means something more is going on that should make us not want El and Mike's relationship to work - the writers have been sabotaging the emotional connection of the fans with mileven by doing this and I don't think that professional filmmakers don't know that, I think it's on purpose!

The writers have shown Mike and Will as having a deeper relationship than all the other relationships Mike has, putting him in the same category of El as one of his possible love interests in the plot, they have multiple scenes bonding in a tender way than Mike has with any other of his friends, they happen in private usually or in emotionally charged moments that they film to make you as a viewer feel like they are in private and show how they have this connection that's more than just friendship

The writers have wrote in the show since season 1 MANY parallels between Mike and Will and other official couples (Mileven too!!!) that are, in my opinion, hinting at them ending up together at the end of the show

You can find the parallels here

The writers have continously shown El and Mike to have some kind of problem in their relationship and made El decide to leave Mike behind multiple times even if to save his life because she loves him, the writers have been showing us how Mike is not her PLOT priority and instead they have put having a romantic relationship with Mike as Will's deepest desire since season 3

The writers are building up El's character to have a coming of age that has recurrent themes of her finding herself without the influence of others around her, her becoming completely free from any kind of influence, and Mike has been represented as having too many internal fears to overcome at the moment about their relationship, especially with the love monologue at the end of season 4, he has beliefs about himself as a person that clash with El's character arc about not having to feel influenced in any way, the end of the show for El should be her having complete freedom in all aspects of her life because of the circumstances of her upbringing... Not saying that Mike is influencing her in a bad way necessarily, I think they both love each other a lot but having a relationship with someone that is that much insecure about his role in your life because you have powers will always be a type of influence

The writers have shown Mike and El as not being a team at the same level by separating them constantly after s1, instead they have shown the other couples that work as working together in the supernatural plot (Jancy, Jopper, Lumax, Byler)

The writers have paralleled Mike and El's relationship to all the ships that are not working for some reasons/are not endgame and have more infatuation than a real "true love" kind of relationship (Steve x Nancy, Karen X Ted, Bob x Joyce)

The writers have wrote in multiple scenes of Mike acting awkward with Will (Mike!!! Not Will) or them having coded conversations about how much they care for each other that have no sense to exist unless there is a pay off at the end

The writers have presented El, Mike and Will as being in a love triangle and have been framing them in a love triangle composition in the framing of multiple scenes, with Mike at the centre

When during season 4 the writers talked about all the movies that have inspired season 4 and 5 they have put multiple movies with love triangles that are almost identical to the situation between Mike, El and Will

Will and Mike have multiple fight scenes that are scenes you give to two possible love interests usually, the way the fight happen is written as two lovers having emotional fights instead of as how you would write two friends fighting

The writers wrote in the show a precise parallel in all the scenes of Vickie and Robin... between them and Will and Mike, paralleling Mike to Vickie specifically... who is a canon bisexual character and even paralleling Steve and Jonathan in that context as observers of the couples!

The directors filmed their scenes how you would film romantic scenes in stuff like Bridgerton or a romcom lol

The whole painting scene was Will making Mike feel so loved that he felt comfortable being vulnerable with El, but this means he was still not comfortable on his own relationship with her, he didn't feel safe enough to open up on his own and needed that talk and needed to believe all of those ideas about him being the heart came from Eleven so that he made the jump and told her how he felt instead of being selfishly silent on it because he was too afraid of her possibly leaving him one day... When you are really deeply in love with someone in the context of movies the characters don't let those type of fears influence them and if what gives him courage is the feelings of another character in the love triangle it means he's the right person for the character

( idk if you saw gossip girl but the was a love triangle situation between Blair, Dan and another character where Dan made Blair believe the other character felt some type of way towards her, she understood that she loved Dan because of this act because she wanted those words to be from him and not from the other guy... The whole painting lie is that same trope)

The writers are obsessed with IT from Stephen King and there are clear parallels with it in the show, the whole plot of s4 about the painting is a reprise of the plot between the romantic relationship of Bev and Ben in IT (with the postcard and the poem) Beverly is supposed to be Mike, Ben is Will and Bill is El.... Mike and El share a kiss at the end of season 3 that is supposed to parallel a kiss between Bill and Bev (they did love each other and liked each other but are not endgame)

Both Will and Mike are queercoded multiple times during the seasons

There are WAYYYY more reasons but this post is becoming too long so I'll leave it as this lol

You should rewatch the show and imagine if Will was a girl, I think many people would be seeing what I'm talking about way more and take it as a sign that Mike is going to choose "Willow" and see how Will is the better love interest for him...

Maybe it's all just queerbaiting, who knows, but at the moment I believe this is way too much for it to be queerbait!

I personally think Mike is bisexual

Masterpost about it here

and has feelings for both of them, but his feelings for El have always been a "puppy love" type that is growing to become more platonic than romantic with time, and I think he's a best match with Will, I think Will is able to make him be the best he can be, he's capable of making Mike feel worthy in a very natural way unlike the relationship with El does at the moment!

In my fixed post in the blog you can find all these things in more detail if you're interested!!

Thank you if you read all of this, regardless of what I believe I think everybody should be free to ship what ship they like best!! 😊

[starbylers]

Honestly? Byler isn’t a ship (I mean within the show not the fandom) as much as it is an incomplete storyline that doesn’t really showcase them romantically yet but is about the trials they go through coming of age as queer kids, theorised to end in their romance. You can’t evaluate how “good” it is the same way you would canon ships, it just wouldn’t make sense. It’s not even a slowburn, in the way Jo/pper was for instance. It’s closer to a twist, more an inevitable result of the progression of the plot than a romance currently existing within the plot like others on the show.

Byler is about their potential as opposed to shipping solely based on presently available material, at least that’s how I see it. The building blocks are clearly being laid for it to go fully canon but as of now, Mike and Will do not really have in-universe textually romantic interactions. We see romance in those blocks because we have the foresight of understanding what’s being built, but it is subtle and requires close attention. If a person isn’t bothered to think critically about their entertainment media (which is fine of course that’s their choice), it’s almost inevitable they’ll not get it or even dislike it. Many people just aren't interested unless something’s explicitly happening in front of them. But still, as I said…completely incomparable to established canon ships. Apples and oranges. It’s enjoying watching textually romantic scenes vs interpreting the inner mechanisms of storytelling and theorising…both are valid interests but they don’t belong in the same conversations. In a way it’s like comparing Lu/max as a couple to the theories about Will’s connection to the UD. Because Byler is, essentially, a theory (an extremely well-evidenced correct theory lmao but it is still that for now).

When talking on-screen canonicity, Byler is an in-progress storyline (one in which the twist is being actively obfuscated at that), rather than a ship you can go and witness interacting overtly romantically, and it does call for analytical thinking and a little imagination to understand and appreciate in it’s current form. It’s okay though they’ll kiss on everyone’s screens next year and get their deserved flowers 💐

[doyoulikedem]

"el will be heartbroken if mileven breaks up!" this, "el loves mike and mike would never hurt her!" that.

have we considered that mike already hurt el with all of his letters and distance and absence whilst she was in california (he doesn't need her, after all, and i think that maybe he just isn't accustomed to her being around in the first place, never really having time to, not properly, and instead.. *checks notes* spends all of that time missing will and participating in things that would have reminded him of will and realising that hawkins wasn’t the same without him and that he was spending too much time with el and lost will or something?), and el was already under the impression that he didn't love her anymore, (even calling him out for it, almost phrasing it like she wanted confirmation, not like she was asking a question- see “but you don’t.. you don’t love me anymore?” except the question mark is also more “but you don’t.. you don’t love me anymore.”,) and that el thought that it was "over" already?

she hurt, she mourned the loss of a boyfriend, and cried like the people in the movies she used to watch during the "break up period", but she took some time away from mike - and everyone else - , came into herself just a little bit more, and got over it, mostly. she isn't shown as thinking about mike once during their time apart post-argument. the only part of the hurt that we see having remained in the aftermath is the anger and avoidance of mike, like he avoided her (and will?).

..at this point trying to hold onto milkvan’s relationship is just hurting both of them (and el isn't even the one trying to cling to the concept. *flashbacks to her describing mike as her first boyfriend 👀*).

with the above in mind, i am headcanoning that el had been accepting of the situation by the time they all reunited and would have been able to move past it until a later date, maybe until after the world stopped ending and they (mike and el) could both talk, until the ily monologue happened, and mike saying he loved her then just felt like bullets on skin because she'd already moved on and began her independence arc... maybe even realised that she didn't love him (anymore) either. he was just too late.

but picture it. el, finally getting time to herself without mike, and for some strange reason coming to the conclusion that he might not be in love with her, when she starts paying more attention to his actions without the distraction of him all over her all the time, and with each letter "from mike" growing more suspicious and realising/thinking he doesn't love her, getting continuously more worried, and then getting enough confirmation from the one day she spent with him to feel justified in her concerns and call him out for it.

almost immediately after said argument she then left a *badass* goodbye note to mike, in which i just wanted to point out the usage of "superhero", because i think that's interesting to me. if she was saying it like "so you could love me again", first of all that's heart-breaking and unhealthy, and secondly then why would she sign it "from el" rather than "love", making an obvious callback to how mike was hurting her and making her think he didn’t love her, mike then not giving any good explanations for mentioned behaviour.

mike bringing up el being a superhero repeatedly afterwards, and highlighting it again in his monologue almost makes me think that her being a "superhero" is more personal to her then mike - her powers should not be there so that mike can love her, and him saying "you're my superhero" in the monologue was only salt in the wound for her, reinstituting that he thought that was the most awesome part about her and what made her loveable or “out of his league” or whatever. (another reason why i love byler- mike doesn’t see will as a superhero, but as a best friend first and foremost, and therefore the love he feels for him is pure, and not an emotional attachment to a glorified ideology in his mind, whereas mileven were barely friends, barely acquaintances, before they kissed.)

the "you're my superhero" thing is also interesting, because finn has stated that this was improv, the duffers having told him to do whatever he wanted during the monologue (😭���) and that he was "very proud" of this line. meaning he's either unaware of the toxidity of mileven, or he's proud of this line because it adds something more, another detail/relevant callback. and i would be surprised if he doesn't know about mileven's issues, seeing as when asked about byler he stated that he thinks will's love for mike is "beautiful", and i don't feel like you would say that without giving it time and consideration and actually thinking about the situation.

but anyways, back to the point i was making. i feel like it showed mike was yet to realise what he was doing, and that he was going around in circles, not making any obvious developments in his thought processes and unable to tell el anything new, apart from rewording their argument (and mixing in some of eddie's speech about recruiting new dnd players from earlier on in the season, not that el would know) but adding in that he loves her, because she had plainly told him that was what she had wanted. he probably wouldn't have even realised or thought to say so otherwise.

now, lets just stop for a moment. if eddie's "i love you, man" to dustin was meant platonically (which it almost certainly was, because urm obviously,) then who's to say that this one any different? mike is often shown as mirroring eddie throughout this season, even in this speech (as mentioned above).

even by itself, the point still stands that this “i love you” could/can be taken in a platonic way, and despite what else you can say, will was IN the shot of mike's first 'i love you' that he’s said to el's face (although realistically it still wasn't very properly to her face,), and had a literal hand on his back, saying to him that "you have to keep going, you're the heart, mike!" when mike.. looked at him for reassurance halfway through, god. (and el probably heard it.)

(also quickly acknowledging the concept of "you have to keep going, i need to hear you say it so i have confirmation that you will always love her and never me and therefore can force myself to try to move on" from wills pov here.)

and alright, so, in conclusion to this point, i think that el was driven to fight back against vecna by mike's 'i love you' in this scene, but out of strong feelings of sadness and anger rather than love and reassurance (neither of which the monologue truly offered, when taken into further consideration. it's just a very desperate, grasping-at-straws sort of confession. and not even like an emotional, angsty, clinging to her, "you've GOT to hold on, el !!!!" + sobbing into her chest, holding her in his arms, inconsolable desperate that we see with lumax. just a desperate last-ditch attempt of communicating his apparent "feelings").

anyways. just some ily monologue thoughts.. (not sure if this makes any sense at all, it’s sort of everywhere, but. idk. thought i might as well share.. <33) remember: mileven is unhealthy, will is not a homewrecker, but the actual reason the "i love you monologue" is a monologue and includes and "i love you" in it, and byler endgame most hopefully. please duffers. istg.