#i just don't really like the 'alice is up to something' theories

[miscreantahead]

I really like the thoughts on Alice having brought Sam into this despite having some idea of the danger, but I very much don't think it she's being intentionally nefarious. She says herself that some people have gone weird, but I think she chalks it up to general mental unwellness caused by the cases they have to read, hundreds every day, rather than anything that's more aggressively dangerous. I think she has thoroughly convinced herself it's not dangerous because she has to. And I think Sam needed something fast and she thought he could be the same as her. Get through the day without looking too hard at the work, take the money and run.

Will she regret getting him into this when his life is more in danger? I think so. But she's a working class trans woman who is quite clearly trying to support her little brother's music career financially. She can't just quit and find another job as easy as that, and I think she's grown to perceive this position as an effective means to an end and nothing more. She thought it could be the same thing for Sam, but he's not like her.

[agatharkn3ss]

Rio's flower theory (contains spoilers!)

Some people have noticed how Rio's flower kept making appearance in the last episode, so naturally I re-watched it for the 100th time, and made note of every moment we see the flower because I have a theory...

First appearance - Rio presents it to Agatha when she crawls out of the ground

Agatha pushed it out of her hand, but it's unclear what happens to it - I thought maybe it looked like she put it in her coat pocket, but actually I think she just threw it to the ground, she would be too angry to keep it. And so we see the flower back in Rio's hands when she merrily hops along the Road. She doesn't stop playing with it even when they stop to look at the trial house.

The flower (and also her knife) is also present in the trial. As we saw with Agatha's locket, amulets and Joe's spell book, the trial seems to let the witches keep things that are important to them.

When they exit the trial, frantically trying to save Teen, Rio is back playing with the flower again, silently observing Agatha.

This continues until the campfire. Seriously, why is this girl stimming so much?

The interesting bit is when Agatha returns from Teen. Her hands are in her pocket, so we can't see whether she's holding something in her hands or if she's taking something from her pocket. But in the next frame, as she sits down to join the coven, she has that flower in her left hand! I think Rio must have put it on the seat, waiting for her. There are some interesting looks!

Finally, when Rio gets up to go after Agatha, the camera pans out and we see the flower has actually been left back on the log, where Agatha sat... What is the meaning of it?....

So in summary, the flower has some deeper meaning to Rio and she seems to really treasure it, maybe even use it as a stimming device, maybe trying to control her emotions?

Enter the Marvel promo for Death tarot card!

In one hand, we see Death holds her dagger (looking familiar?), in the other hand she holds an object that people believe to be Death's black heart. But it also reminds me the shape of a flower. So what if Rio's flower IS her heart? That she keeps offering to Agatha?

But I wonder if Agatha realises the meaning of the flower yet. In ep.1 she looked a little surprised when Rio says she does have a heart, that it's black and beats for her. It would be hard to believe that if these two were an item for centuries, that they wouldn't end up knowing everything about each other. So Agatha's "you don't have a heart" could just be a snarky, hurtful comment to reflect Rio's possible betrayal (the "job" she had to do) or a more literal fact that she doesn't believe Rio can be truly human in any physical way (no heart, no scars), because she's Lady Death. Or both. So maybe Rio hid that part from her? They certainly seem like they didn't even talk and reconcile after the dramatic events because Agatha seems surprised at Rio's hurt and regret when she tells her "scar story".

Anyway, I digress... In short, I think flower is (or at least symbolises) Rio's heart.

Bonus content - we actually get a glimpse of that flower in ep.1 as it makes its appearance even in Agatha's fake reality. Even though the camera angles make it impossible to see it most of the time, there are scenes when Rio moves her head just enough that we can see a bit of her her clip - which looks eerily like the flower!

While there was no actual flower in their ep.1 fight scene, Agatha is wearing a flowery robe and the wallpaper is all flowers. So I think there is a deeper symbolism there that the show is trying to subtly incorporate - does it all link to the Green Witch powers? Or the language of flowers?

Even Teen places a flower on Sharon's grave, where would he even get it from in that dark place? And finally, Jen uses blue flowers when they summon the green witch (Lilia offers a rock, Agatha adds a leaf and it's not clear what Alice adds - some dust or fruit?)

So... after all that, I don't actually know anything about plants or gardening. So does anyone know what type Rio's flower even is? I mean, there literally is a flower called Rio, could that be a hint or is it too simple?

EDIT: My bad, Rio is a proprietary company name who sells those flowers. But what about this flower called Surprise Lily? (also called Resurrection Lily!) Doesn't look quite like Rio's but I like the name as it would be quite funny if it was true...

[rmgold-blog]

I posted this in a reblog but I worked really hard on it so I wanted to make it into its own post.

Tarot in Episode 7

Before I begin: how Tarot is read in the show is a very watered down version of how Tarot is read irl, so I'm gonna try and keep it within the simplistic bounds of the show.

My thought was when Billy and Agatha were doing pulls - they weren't doing it right.

Billy was pulling with intention - but he was the one pulling the cards, and he wasn't answering any questions. So he was just "reading vibes".

As for Agatha's pulls - she wasn't using intention. To her it was a numbers game. Therefore the cards may not mean anything. But I did attempt to read them since set dressing is important to read.

Billy's Tarot Reading for Agatha

The Chariot

Direction/Control/Willpower

I feel like Agatha has been pretty aimless up until this point. In combination with some of the cards in Agatha's reading. I think this is a message of what Agatha needs - but not necessarily what she wants.

Agatha has been falling to this perpetual cycle of hurt - people say she's a bad person, so she is a bad person, so people say she's a bad person... and Agatha needs to break free from that cycle in order to grow. Take control of her own narrative.

The Seven of Swords Reversed

Deception/Trickery/Tactics and Strategy

Telling the Truth/No Deception

Billy describes it as trickery and deception - but it's reversed so it's the opposite ("but that can't be right"). To me this is the more important one to the story. It's more than just talking about "the truth coming to light" it's saying: Billy thinks Agatha is deceiving him. He looked up to her until Alice died, then he felt betrayed, because he believed she could control what she was doing and she killed her on purpose. That she's been deceiving him this whole time. But this card is telling him she's not.

Before we get to the cards Agatha pulled in the beginning of the episode, let's look at what Lilia read for Billy first, because Agatha's pull has a lot more cards and leaves a lot more things up to interpretation, so it's a bit lengthy

Lilia's Tarot Reading for Billy

Perhaps the most important thing to come out of this part of the episode is this conversation about who you need to have a question - not just on how to get out of here, but something that's important to Billy's journey on earth.

Now - later when Lilia does her own reading we don't see her ask a question. In fact she pretty much already knows the answers. So that means this question was solely important (plot wise) for this reading for Billy.

Billy asks: "Am I William or am I Billy?"

Essentially - Who am I?

The Traveler: The Magician

Willpower/Desire/Creation/Manifestation

Lilia describes this card to Billy as him having enormous potential and the ability to turn all his goals into a reality.

This card is very literal - the question is "who am I?" and the card slot is basically the arrow on a map saying "you are here".

Wiccan's powers deal not just with telepathy, but with Willpower. We see this a little bit in the episode when Billy says "I wish Lilia were here". (Now this could just be a nod to this power, since it's not like they just appeared, we know they had been making their way there before Billy said this. But we also know from Lilia that time isn't linear so idk).

What's Missing: The Sun

Joy/Success/Celebration/Positivity

Now this is obviously the interesting one. Lilia brings up "Reunion", which perks Billy's interest.

Obviously we are made to believe that it references Tommy. However the question wasn't about Billy's journey on the road, or even about his life. The question was "Who am I?" "Am I William or am I Billy"

So this reunion has something go do with Billy's identity. It could be the reunion between Billy and William, as many people have speculated that these two identities - William Kaplan or Billy Maximoff - become one Billy Kaplan.

Or - if my theory about the origin of Billy's soul is correct - it could be a reunion between Nicholas Scratch and Agatha, as I believe that Nicky is the original holder of the soul and is the secret third part of Billy's identity...

Agatha's Tarot Reading

A (Vertical): The Traveler

B: What's Missing

C: The Path Behind

D: The Path Ahead

E: Obstacles

F: Potential Windfall

A (Horizontal): Final Destination

The Traveler: Five of Wands

Competition/Rivalry/Conflict

So right off the bat my thoughts are that this relates to the coven as a whole - or Agatha's relationship with Rio. Therefore I'm going to attempt to read both. Alternatively it could just be referencing Agatha as a whole - as she is someone who likes to stir conflict as her means of survival.

Warning: I am not Agathario fan, and I honestly think they're going to come to head to head in the finale.

What's Missing: The Two of Wands

Planning/Making Decisions/Leaving Home

Agatha: this card really marks the beginning of a journey - so I'm interpreting this as taking the first step. She needs to take the first step away from the life she's leading now. Leaving the familiar.

The Coven: was missing in this group is their ability to work together. Consistently, they're always fighting and they don't trust one another.

Agathario: what's missing is making the decision to leave. Leaving this relationship behind. To stop holding on.

The Path Behind: The World

Fulfillment/Harmony/Completion

Agatha: from my perspective Agatha chose this life because it's what everyone told her she was. They said she was evil, so that's what she became. This was her harmonizing with how the world saw her.

The Coven: after Alice's trial things had seemed to be looking up for the coven - before everything went to shit. They had worked together - literally harmonizing - and around the fire they were bonding. But that's in the past now.

Agathario: their relationship in the past was fulfilling - they both felt loved, Agatha got someone who believed in her, and Rio got someone who wasn't scared of her.

Obstacles: The Wheel of Fortune

Change/Cycles/Inevitable Fate

Agatha: using the mental energy, allowing herself to be curious - what more can she be, who can she become? Restlessness, breaking free from the mold she's been made to fit.

The Coven: they need to learn more about one another - break out of their past perceptions of each other, and think critically. What have they heard that could be lies? Biases? Do they believe that?

Agathario: to move forward Agatha needs to be inquisitive, critical. I feel that Rio is reeling Agatha in - she's trying to simultaneously make Agatha look bad to the rest of the coven, make the coven look like they don't trust her despite how much Agatha is frying, and make herself look better in Agatha's eyes for continuing to be so caring for her. The message Rio wants Agatha to receive is: no one will ever love you like I do. Agatha needs to be critical of that claim.

Windfall: The Hanged Man

Sacrifice/Release/Martyrdom

Agatha: falling into old habits, throwing up her defenses whenever she feels threatened. See: when Billy stopped believing in her, she didn't push being genuine, she decided to play the role again - not show weakness. She needs to be vulnerable to grow.

The Coven: cycles of falling back on assumptions - Jen especially always brings up that Agatha is dangerous, not to be trusted. I'm sure she may feel similarly about Billy, knowing who he is too, and what he did to her. They need to overcome this.

Agathario: Agatha is falling into the same trap - this toxic cycle they existed in. "You kill every Witch around you and I get my bodies" They have a working relationship, and it can be easy to fall into those same patterns.

Destination: Ten of Swords

Failure/Collapse/Defeat

...seems kind of final doesn't it. No matter what way I read it seems like the end of the Road leads to complete and tragic failure.

But that's not the only possible outcome.

Agatha keeps going - it's a numbers game after all - and we see her put down another card on top of the Ten of Swords.

Destination: The Chariot

Direction/Control/Willpower

Hang on... we've seen this before. This is the first card Billy pulled for Agatha. It all comes full circle.

As I said earlier - the Chariot here may reference Agatha breaking free from this cycle of selfishness, hurt, and hunger of power. She can put aside people's assumptions of her and do what she wants, instead of filling the role others have cast her for.

Not a hero by any means - but not a villain.

I think by having two cards here, it references there are two ways this can end for Agatha. She's at a crossroads. Will she lower her guard, accept help and understanding, or will her walls stay up, not allowing for input and change?

[yuurei20]

Hello! I wanted to ask, but do we have any visual descriptions of the blot monster that killed Ortho? Like even just if it was big or if it had claws anything like that lol

Also this is a bit of a darker question do feel free to not answer this part but is the it ever implied or said how exactly Ortho was killed? Like did the blot monster like.. bite or maybe squash him? (Ngl I'd normally ask it in a more graphic way but I don't wanna make you uncomfortable)

Anyways I hope you have a good night/day whenever you read this <3

Hello hello! ^^ Thank you for this question!

I do not believe we have any detailed description of exactly what it is that happened to human-Ortho and, interestingly, we do not really know what happened to Idia, either!

There is a loud sound of something striking against something else and Idia says, "Everything after that is a blank for me. By the time I woke up, Ortho was gone."

What was that sound we hear after the monster lunges for Ortho? Metal against metal? Someone or something hitting a wall, or floor? How did Idia fall unconscious, and what happened in between Ortho being attacked and Idia being knocked out?

"Everything after that is a blank" may be insinuating that something happened during that "everything after," but he either can't or does not want to remember what it was. Very curious!

And there may be more to this scene than meets the eye 👀

When Ortho reacts to the creature coming down the hall, he doesn't call it a phantom: he calls it a monster.

"Monster" is one of the various ways that the cast refer to Grim (re: Animal vs. Monster vs. Cat vs. Dire Beast vs. Tanuki (pt1) / Animal vs. Monster vs. Cat vs. Dire Beast vs. Tanuki (pt2) ).

STYX labels him a dire beast in Book 6, but at the same time we learn that Grim is under a powerful spell that STYX's supercomputer can't actually analyze!

Grim might not be a direbeast at all, and we have already heard of creatures that will blend in with direbeasts in order to hide: phantoms 👀

I first came across this theory via Vtuber Toro-san (shared with permission) who points out some interesting things we know about the creature:

1. It was subject ROS-3367A, which possibly means that the phantom originally came from the Queendom of Roses, and Grim is theorized to have been at least partially based on Dinah from Alice in Wonderland.

(In Book 6 we also hear about a SUS-332OB, theorized to be from Sunset Savanna.)

2. While the weaker phantoms frozen on the higher levels of Tartarus in Book 6 mostly growl, the stronger phantoms frozen deeper inside would sometimes speak, saying, "I'm hungry, feed me flesh," "Don't go, stay with me" and "I want to be friends, too."

This is not impossible to tie back to Grim, who recalls waking up "hungry and alone," saying "it was real cold."

He follows with, "What happened after that again? It's all so foggy..."

Grim is mysterious enough on his own, not knowing where NRC is located (which begs the question: how did he get there?) and having significant gaps in his memory, in addition to being so unfamiliar with basic information of what is (presumably?) his own world that other characters often express surprise. (re: Grim's Memory / Grim's Experiences)

3. The chimera in the prologue has long been theorized to be some form of overblotted Grim. Is that his true form as a potentially flesh-eating, unfrozen phantom under a curse and/or blessing that no one understands?

We do not know! :> To the original question: it is difficult to pinpoint how exactly it was that Ortho died, as we do not know exactly what it was that killed him. (If it was the chimera in the opening, though, we have an idea of what it is he may have looked like at the time!)

We know Ortho was killed by a monster who had just escaped from a place built expressly for the purpose of housing lonely, violent, and hungry creatures--but that is all!

Perhaps a mystery to be solved as the plot thickens 👀

[momentomori24]

Keiji is a character that I'm pretty sure every one of us can recognize is an absolute weirdo (ok maybe some are too hard on copium for the "weirdo" part) and sketchy as hell, but thinking about everything he's done it really feels like he's so much shady and ruthless than we give him credit for. So here's me bulletpointing some the moments that I haven't seen too many talk about, a little theory throwing his status into question and addressing the massive elephant in the room that almost everyone refuses to acknowledge. If there's something else you feel I missed or wanted to evaluate on, do leave it in the comments.

[Also, disclaimer: I will be discussing Keiji and Sara in a romantic light near the end of this post, so if that makes you uncomfortable please proceed with caution or skip entirely. This should go without saying but for my own sake I will say it anyway-- No, I do not condone their relationship in real life. No, this is not meant to be "shippy" or endorsement of any kind. This will simply be pointing out their dynamic as another example to prove the whole point of this rant. But if someone else does ship them that's totally fine. Fiction doesn't equal reality and if you harass a real person over fictional characters you will not see the light of heaven. Be civil, please and thank you. My block button is rated E for Everyone and if anyone decides to ignore the warnings and be an asshole I won't hesitate to use it. Thanks for listening. Disclaimer over.]

*Being a murderer.

I feel like I should start with the most obvious and undeniable. I don't think this is debatable to anyone here. Mr. Policeman may have been an accident and kinda confirmed by Midori to have been set up, but he still shot and killed an unarmed man in a moment of panic and recklessness. Even putting that aside, there's no denying that he killed Megumi in cold blood to get out of his debt to her and covered it up to the group to preserve his credibility. Regardless of what you think of Megumi, he has no excuse here. Not only is he one more kill away from being a serial killer, he's the only participant in our group that has actually killed people directly aside from Alice. Another reason why I bring this up is cuz something that completely flew over my head is this:

At the start of the game he had the audacity to complain about not having a partner or someone he knows with him like Sara does as if he didn't literally let Megumi get ripped apart by chains probably not even an hour ago Keiji what the hell--

*Throwing Kanna under the bus repeatedly.

Despite positioning himself as a protector and someone to rely on, he's far from above putting their youngest members in danger. Next to voting for the fourteen year old girl to die, he had the great idea of letting said fourteen year old be the one to babysit their biggest liability. Up to the point where they would stay in the same room both day and night. While I absolutely 100% trust that Sou would never EVER do anything to her, Keiji had no guarantee of that when he send her off. Hell, he literally just got done accusing Sou of setting Joe up to die (which I don't believe almost solely based on the fact that he said it, more on that another time maybe). He knew Sou was bad news, and openly acknowledges how adults can be terrifying, but he did it anyway. The dubiety of throwing the already traumatised little girl to keep watch on what they thought to be the most dangerous adult that had manipulated her once before is not lost on me, and that he didn't take any responsibility for her afterwards isn't lost on me either. To be fair, the Sou and Kanna thing doesn't just fall on him, it falls on everybody (Alice gets a pass because he actually swapped out with Kanna to watch Sou for her), but he was the one with the final say on the matter and who encouraged her to take the role despite Reko's rightful protests. The fact that he also voted for her to die in the Main Game, and is the only adult to do so, doesn’t help his case.

*Attempting to frame Sou knowing Reko was actually responsible.

While you could argue he was trying to cover for her since he knew why she did what she did, trying to pin this act on Sou to cast more doubt on his is extremely shitty. Never mind the blatant corruption and the irony of a supposed man of the law abusing his power to knowingly frame an innocent person (in this situation at least), and him sowing more seeds of confusion and resentment within an already rattled group, and giving Sou legitimate reason to be suspicious of him (and by extension Sara)-- this makes it so difficult to trust him after realising he's done this. Literally every time he accuses someone of being or doing something suspicious (mostly Sou), I always have to think in the back of my head if he’s telling the truth or just telling a blatant lie. He's shown that he's willing to not only lie to cover for himself, but to lie to delegitimize someone else. And Sara never caught onto it (Sou and maybe even Nao likely did tho). She never openly acknowledged it-- No one did. The complete lack of mention of what he did here makes this action quite missable. Hell, I didn't even catch it the first time. Has he done this before? Who else has he lied about? Who else would he lie about? Who else would he knowingly pit against the group? You don't have to wait for that answer, because I will provide an example later. And with "later", I mean now.

*Casting suspicion on Gin before the vote while hiding the fact that he killed Megumi.

While it's not as blatant as with Kanna, there are two instances where Keiji shows a readiness to either put or leave Gin in harm's way. The biggest one for me is in the Main Game. Like, how dare you. That is a furry child, sir. This kid’s like TWELVE. Even though he makes a valid point about calling out suspicious actions to clear them up so we can all trust each other, casting doubt on Gin of all people right there feels pretty screwed to me. This was before the preliminary vote. His words could’ve very well gotten Gin voted for if he couldn’t disclose why he did what he did for whatever reason and therefore being unable to clear himself from suspicion. It’s even more fucked when you realise that Keiji has literally murdered his partner and is currently planning to get Sou killed while giving this whole spiel about doubting others so that we can believe them and pointing the finger at a little kid to make an example to the group. But when Nao, Sou and Sara call him out on his suspicious actions that could rightfully damage his credibility, he tries to shut them down completely. My brother in Christ, you brought it on FIRST (don’t get me wrong I’m very much aware he didn’t really mean the whole “trusting each other” bit but come on dude)--

Speaking about not meaning what he says:

*Letting the group think he’s Ok to vote for knowing he’s the Keymaster.

This kinda got to me because I thought this was Keiji actually being… vulnerable? Accepting the consequences of his actions and allowing them to vote for him in their distrust without protest even tho it could cost him his life, maybe. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I can’t remember a lot of times-- or any times, really-- where Keiji has willing put himself into the line of fire, at this point at least. He always finds a way to keep himself safe, give himself insurance, and I thought that this would be the one time he doesn’t do that. But this feels so ominous looking back knowing that he was the Keymaster the whole time. That our distrust and betrayal and his resignation to it all didn’t matter because he was going to be safe no matter what. That he knowingly allowed us to assume that he was a safe vote because he didn’t want his plan to kill Sou to be ruined, which narrowed down choice of people we can safely vote for even further. That this action is ultimately the reason why Sou and Kanna were our only options to kill off in the end. If he had admitted it there, we could’ve found someone else to vote for so our final options could consist of three people, not two. But he didn’t, and the rest is history. There’s a lot of things he’s done I can’t get over. This one ranks pretty high. The second Main Game is already a huge sore spot for me for obvious reasons; knowing that a lot of the things that happened were due to his inaction where it truly mattered and activity in all the wrong places doesn’t make me fee any better. He didn't say he was a safe vote-- he didn't lie-- but his words carefully omit that voting for him means a total party death, something he should've stated then (and before this, really).

*Leaving Sara with the sacrifice card.

Despite making a big show about “always being by her side” and being her “reliable policeman”, he chose to look away when she was in real danger. He attached himself to her as her right hand man, made her shoulder the responsibility of being the leader, constantly manipulated and flattered her to win her trust and gain her favour-- but when she needed him the most, he basically left her for dead because it was the most beneficial to him. Keep in mind that not only did he know about her getting the sacrifice (he was also the sage so he'd have seen the trade happen), but he had the tokens to help her get rid of it. But those tokens weren’t for her life. They were for his. He used them instead to give himself the Keymaster as insurance for the Main Game (the Keymaster he stole from Sou/Kanna most likely to buy Sara’s trust btw). His desperation for survival outweighed his sense of obligation to keep her safe, and that’s the most subtle yet transparent he’s been about his selfishness. What makes this so much worse is that Keiji is our support character. He’s an ally, and our closest one at that, to the point where Sara burned her hands in a futile attempt to rescue him and signed her life away to save his. And yet his loyalty and protectiveness pale in comparison to other characters. Compare his actions to Sou’s: one of their many parallels and similarities is that both their girls get hit with the sacrifice card. As we’ve established, Keiji was fully aware of Sara being send the sacrifice by Sou, had 50 tokens ready to go and chose to secure his own survival than save her life. Kanna ended up doing it instead, attempting to trade the card off Sara with Sou realising what happened immediately. And what does Sou do? Completely bend over backwards trying to keep her alive. He lied about being the Sacrifice so the others wouldn’t suspect Kanna of having that role, meaning he could try gathering vote for her without anyone seeing his true intentions. He tried to stop her about coming out with the truth of what she had done so she doesn’t sentence herself to death. After everything he did to survive-- after how much he lied, how much he schemed, how much he hurt, and how he had thrown himself away to replace everything that made him Shin with the man that had traumatised him years before the game began to scrape together even the tiniest chance to survive-- he threw it all to the wind and was willing to let it all be in vain if it meant she got to make it out of the Main Game alive. The worst part is that Sou had never intended to make it through that Main Game. He confessed to already knowing that Kanna would choose Sara over him if she truly had the Sacrifice card. Yet he still did what he did all in the hopes that she could win. Because it was all about her survival first, not about them surviving together.

It also gives a different context to Sou's panic and him stumbling over his words trying to come up with any argument to get them to stop. At first I thought that Sou was afraid for his life. Which would make sense-- Keiji and Q-taro set him up to die and seemed pretty adamant on having everyone voting for him to get it all over with. But he was already prepared to die the minute he realised Kanna traded with Sara. So it means it wasn’t his life he was fearing for here-- it was hers. To him, if they voted for him there, it wouldn’t have just been his end but hers too. But we know that Kanna isn’t the one who has the sacrifice. It’s Nao, and considering how the Main Game can end either or both of them dead, I wonder if he regrets not having given up there, not letting Keiji get away with that shitty stunt he pulled knowing it would’ve at least guaranteed her safety than leave her fate in hands of a girl with enough reason to kill her. Ignoring the sounds of my heart shattering into pieces for the 100th time thinking about the Greenblings, it’s so fascinating that our biggest rival and most distrusted member has a greater sense of loyalty and responsibility for his ally than Keiji has for his own. Sou can be a liar and manipulative and selfish, but for how unpredictable he is something I can always trust is his love for those he holds dear (Kanna) and general desire to protect our most vulnerable (Gin). Sou loves Kanna, and so he’s fine with protecting her even if it comes at a price he never wanted to pay. Keiji surely cares about Sara, but unfortunately that is something I can’t say about him-- at least at that time (also the fact that Sou ended up taking more care and responsibility for Kanna despite Keiji having been the one to throw her on him in the first is so ironic).

*Continuously pushing Sara to take on the role of leader.

I think one of Keiji's biggest failures in the game come from his treatment of Sara despite positioning himself as her most reliable ally and her partner. From the very get-go, he was very adamant of making Sara be the one to shoulder the responsibility of the group. He, along with Joe (he didn't do anything wrong here), pushed Sara to be the Challenger during the Russian Roulette, despite Q-taro and Kai being readily available. He made Sara be the one to interrogate the suspicious convict while distancing himself from the situation. And he encourages her to lead them through the Main Game, lets her make the choices that steer them all forward and as a consequence take the fall for them as well. Rather than take on the role himself, or let another adult take it, he places his full trust in her and makes her shoulder everyone's weight so he doesn't have to. And he can see the effect it has on her: having horrific hallucinations due to the immense guilt she feels. But having Sara as their leader gives him a greater shot at survival and helps his credibility, so even though he tries to provide her comfort he still continues to keep her in that role. Again, the high schooler taking responsibility for the adults falls on a lot of the older people here, but Keiji was the one who kickstarted it rather than just go along with it like everyone else had. Gin, Nao, Kanna, Reko and even fucking Sou to an extent all have moments where they take the burden off her and relieve her of that pain she shoulders all the time (or at least try to). I need Keiji to take more responsibility for both the group and for her.

*Pitting Sara and Joe against each other.

This is just another example of the previous point. This isn't as bad, and I could give him the benefit of the doubt that this might have not been intentional, but it's something I want to bring up regardless. I'll be the first to say that Keiji wasn't wrong here. Prying into everyone's votes is a very bad move, especially since no one knew that Mishima would actually die (it was introduced as a practice round, after all). I agree with him, Joe was being rash, but instead of leaving the conversation there, he decided to throw Sara into it to pick a side. Which is... not good. He already won the argument and already had Reko on his side. Bringing in Sara could not only make Joe feel worse and potentially strain their relationship (especially if she rightfully chooses Keiji's side like he was expecting and hoping for), but just puts Sara in the spotlight during something she doesn't want to be part of. While there's a chance he might've done this because he know Joe is more likely to listen to her than him, he should've known better than that. It again makes her take the responsibility of giving the final verdict that would've otherwise gone to him.

*Asking Sara to take responsibility for his life

I've got nothing other that the grown adult swearing his life to the grieving, unstable teenager to take responsibility for while asking her if she'd die along with him is weird as heck. Keiji's said weirder things prior to this, but this one is a different weird. I think Beanieman's post mostly echoes my thoughts on this on, so I'll link it here for this point. This part kinda bothers me:

He shouldn't be encouraging her taking on anymore responsibility than she already is. He knows that the deaths that happened under her leadership haunt her. He knows that she's very much unstable enough already, to the point where he takes baby-steps to avoid triggering her trauma over Joe. He positioned himself as her reliable partner, her rock to lean on (quite literally sometimes). We see first hand how emotionally dependent she is on him. If he died, it would destroy her-- she'd destroy herself over it. He knows this (or should) but he still does it. His disappointment and dismissiveness when she understandably rejects him makes it worse. The guilt of potentially not living up to his expectations is not what she needs.

*Potentially working for Asunaro

This is more ambiguous than everything else here and more a theory than anything but it's been on my mind for a long time that Ranmaru might actually be onto something here. We know that Asunaro has a strong hold on the police. Midori was able to infiltrate the force, and they were able to get rid of Mr. Policeman for looking into the corruption going on, first having Megumi fire him and secondly getting Keiji to kill him by planting false info about the suspect having a gun. Megumi was also able to get Keiji off the hook for murder, which I believe Asunaro had a hand in too (I theorize this might've been her wish). There's also Alice, who was arrested and sent to prison despite the fact that he (legally) didn't kill anyone since Midori was a doll. The police are connected to Asunaro-- by extension Megumi and extending further potentially Keiji.

Something I've seen someone rightfully point out is that neither of the options you're given to say in response to the accusation... actually deny it? Both choices dance around answering directly, which is suspect as fuck. If Keiji truly wasn't with Asunaro, why not shut that theory down immediately? There's no benefit to answering anything but "no" when he's innocent, and he's lied straight to people's faces for less. So why not just debunk it? I think it's cuz there might be some truth to what Ranmaru was saying here. The biggest reason I think this is because despite the fact that Keiji quit the force, he and Megumi were still associating with each other years later. They were kidnapped together and partnered up for their first trial. One missable piece of dialogue is Keiji admitting that he was with his partner-- or rather a "coworker"-- before getting knocked out.

That slip of the tongue and backtracking makes me believe this part to be true. Him switching from "my partner" to "a coworker", which is a lot more distant and impersonal, makes me think it's got to be Megumi. However, I don't believe that Keiji would wanna keep in touch with her after what happened willingly, so I can only imagine that it's due to that debt he has to her. My little game theory here is that after the shooting, the debt he owed her was a forced recruitment into Asunaro. It's the only thing I can imagine he meant by "the worst kind of debt", a debt he'd literally let her die for to get out of. And if this is true, then it could also explain away his instant attachment to Sara, since he'd know beforehand that she's someone he can depend on due to her having the highest chance at survival. Maybe he already knew about her beforehand, one way or the other. We know Hayasaka did (which I think we as a fandom moved on from way too fast btw). Kai and Sou did too. There's always a chance. And unlike Sou's victory rate and Midori's favourite number, it's not zero. One person made a comic about this idea I recommend checking it out, it's tastefully unsettling. But still very much unsetling and uncomfortale. Be warned that it's also Keisara-centred, so if that makes you even more uncomfortable they did the job right you can ignore it. Proceed with caution or don't read if you don't like.

*Being a predator

I have been waiting so long for this one XD For context: a while ago I made a longpost discussing the sanitisation of soushin and this kind of toxic attitudes in fandoms regarding "problematic content" (ships, characters, shows, you name it). In it, I mentioned that it's not only soushin that receives this treatment but a certain other dynamic too. It's not a rainy day, however this has been way overdue and if I don't get this done now I never will.

Something I've seen a lot, and I mean a LOT-LOT is this notion that Keiji acts "like a father" to Sara and that their relationship is a completely platonic father-daughter bond and that he's the resident dad of the group? Like, it's cute, but that's not at all what their relationship is. At all. Not even a little bit. We called Sou and Kanna siblings before the Greenblings reveal. The difference is that not only does half the fandom think this man is gay, but he's only ever been protective and caring and loving without any romantic intentions towards Kanna ever. His title as her brother was deserved, based on the genuine affection and platonic protectiveness similar to that of Alice's. Keiji has made advances tho, on many occasions, and his flirting is repeatedly acknowledged by other characters. Namely Sou and Reko.

(Sou grills him for being a creep every chance he gets I love him XD) But yeah, these are not the type of reactions and comments you receive when being a "father-figure" to the teenager. You get all this when you hit on the teenager. Which he does all the time by calling her "cute" every time she asks something and his "cute little detective", swearing himself to her by saying that "he's always on her side" or something like that, asking her if she'd die alongside him, repeatedly claiming or insinuating that they're on a date, or ""having a moment"" and going to ""take the next step"" when in private (*cough* groomer *cough*)-- you name it, he likely said it. He's a walking-talking ladykiller machine and teenage girls aren't safe, apparently.

(Quick note: The dialogue for the Russian Roulette one is a tad different now. In the new translation he says "cause you're so darn cute" now. I dunno if that makes it sound any less weird, but I felt like putting that out there. What I'm also putting out there is that according to the trivia he calls her cute 8 times throughout the game so. Yeah. *Cough* groomer *COUGH COUGH*)

Like, who tf says this?? Especially that last part 💀 Even if you wanna die on the hill that these are supposed to be "jokes" not to be taken seriously, we should all be able to agree that the (ex)police officer in his late 20s jokingly hitting on the high schooler he follows around is still weirdo behaviour at best and down right despicable at worst. The fandom seeing lowkey predatory/inappropriate behaviour from a figure of authority persistent for almost three entire chapters and dismissing it as "fatherly" and "platonic" is, well, concerning. It's very concerning. If your dad acts like Keiji, you should probably call the police. Unfortunately for Sara, Keiji is the police. And considering this guy got away with manslaughter, I don't think said police would do anything anywho. But yeah-- he uses flattery and flirting to distract her from prodding to much at him while simultaneously aiming to gain favour in her eyes. He showers her with reassurance of his loyalty and affirmation of his deeper attachment towards her and her alone every chance he gets to cement his position as her closest and most trustworthy ally. He insinuates a romantic partnership between them to others to mostly keep her to himself or the two of them alone (he always does that when they're investigating or going to investigate by themselves). There's such an obvious romantic undertone to their relationship and his actions that it going almost completely ignored in the fandom feels weird to me.

I want to make clear that there's nothing wrong with headcanoning Keiji as a father figure to Sara. It's cute. Keiji didn't have a dad himself, and the closest thing to a father figure he had was the man he shot dead. He's a damaged and hardened guy. But Sara's dad is involved with Asunaro and Gin's is an alcoholic, and in a situation where they both need guidence and protection he tries his best to grow and change, fumbling to become that decent father none of them got to have. It's nice, and a wholesome dynamic for our "characters with memorandum counterparts and only non-determined deaths" trio. But that's obviously not what their dynamic is. There's a difference between headcanoning something and erasing canon and the Yttd fandom leans heavily into the latter. Keiji's a creep, he always has been, yet 90% of people I see always portray him as a Mr. Dad Guy or completely sanitise him to hell when him being creepy and unnerving to be around is what made him such a fascinating character. Just like I said with Soushin, the sanitisation to make canon more digestible is one thing: harassing or insulting the people that explore canon is another. I'm gonna take a bullet, derail this rant and say it-- Keisara shippers get so much shit for literally being right it's so infuriating. Keiji does hit on Sara, a lot. He's creepy and weird like that. Him flirting with her isn't a "mistranslation" or a joke or anything like that; his dubious wording and antics are very much intentional. Yet the only people I see actually addressing and acknowledging that without adding fluff is keisara shippers and other ""proshippers"" only for them to get fucking sniped for it I cannot 💀💀 I have yet to meet a single eastern fan who calls this cop "fatherly". This really feels like such a western issue cuz the majority of the japanese fandom agrees that this man's a predator (correct me if i'm wrong but keisara is the most popular ship in the japanese side of the fandom, right?). Then again, eastern fandoms are more chill over there when it comes to separating fiction and reality in general anywho.

*Yeah, I think I'm done with the Keiji slander. Yay. Time to unceremoniously end this.

There's more to say about that, but this is a Keiji post, not another shipping discourse post (although it's hard discussing Keiji's predatory behaviour without bringing it up too). Before I do spiral from the original point, I'm going to try and reach some sort of conclusion here. While I did spent the majority of this post just reading Keiji to filth, and am very salty towards him in particular, this was not just to rake him through mud for my own sanity (tho it's part of it XD). Keiji's character is that he started off as someone who wanted to do the right thing, someone who wanted to be good and moral and protect others by joining the force only to kill all the progress he made along with the person who inspired him to become an officer in the first place. It heavily contrasts the Keiji we have now, a sleazy, unreliable and corrupt ex detective who flirts with underage girls and is willing to resort to the most bankrupt of decisions to save himself. A man that has long lost hope of his wounds healing that he lets them fester and his rot spread onto others. And while I headcanon Keiji to just inherently be a piece of shit, his former self tried his best to be genuinely good before he became so convinced he can never be better that he made peace with his shittiness in the end.

With all this I wanted to highlight some the shadier and bankrupt things he's done that I haven't seen much discussion around and refresh myself on them before the final part. Both so no matter how emotionally dependent and therefore rose-tinted Sara is about the man I don't forget what he's actually like and what he's done while also being able to appreciate how much he's changed for the better. Some of my favourite examples about how he's changed are these:

Before the second Main Game Keiji was willing to let Sara and Kanna die because it was the most beneficial option for him, but in Chapter 3 he takes the on the role of "it" from Kanna and refuses to tag Sara when he thought he was gonna die after failing to beat Midori.

Actually showing more sympathy towards Sou after the Main Game. He was very mean about dismantling his pretence of a cold front to Kanna's death, don't get me wrong, but he showed a lot more consideration and understanding for Sou's feelings and acknowledgement about his active role in it than he ever had beforehand.

He was genuinely fighting for everyone to survive the game, not just himself. While Keiji would prefer everyone making it out safely, he has a tendency to guarantee his own survival first through any means necessary. His plan to corner Midori in the banquet could've cost him his life if it weren't for Q-taro's final stunt, yet he still reassured Sara to save Gin even tho it could've resulted in his execution from Meister potentially finding him guilty of violating the rules.

Him hugging Mai and trying to be more cheerful was cute as heck. I'm sorry but him showing more vulnerability around his allies and being less closed off in a way he hasn't been before is something I'm very head empty about. That he was hugging and interacting with Mai without making any unwanted advances or ladykiller jokes and generally just having a more friendly vibe was nice. It makes his creeping on Sara more unfortunate, but I'll take what I can for now. The bar is in hell.

And that's it, I think. Overall, I hope they do address some of his actions here in the final part or make them have an impact on his and Sara's relationship. Especially that Asunaro part. The person who wished for Sara to join the death game is still unknown and so is Keiji's consent form wish (same goes for the Dummies, Hinako and Megumi), so I'm curious if they're related or not. If he's going to go down an even darker path or redeem himself as much as he can we'll see when the final part drops. He has the potential to go both ways. This is going to be kinda awkward if the next part reveals him to have been a decent guy all along, so hopefully that doesn't happen. Please be morally bankrupt, man. This post didn't end up the way I wanted it to, nor bring up as many points as I would've liked, but I know I won't finish it if I went full perfectionist on it (I already spent months on this writer's block do be a bitch) and it's looking kinda long already. Hopefully it's still decent enough as is right now. I'd like to say that this is my apology for the last longpost I made, but I brought up one of the most controversial and hated ships and traits of Keiji's character and defended them, so maybe I shouldn't 🙃 Anywho, hope you enjoyed and cheerio.

[thetriboulet]

Woooo so the Magnus Protocol premiered and I have things to say and things to overanalyse!

As we know, 'Chester', 'Neil' and 'Augustus' are, maybe?, Jon, Martin, and Jonah, respectively. Hence this:

And, of course, there's 'J1', 'M1' and 'J2' in the trailer.

However, I've seen confusion over the fact that the third 'Error' is voiced by Tim Fearon, who as far as I'm aware has not previously voiced any characters in the Magnus universe. Even though the name is distorted, I can make out what looks to be an H at the end of the name, so this very well may be Jonah.

My theory is this: 'Augustus' is Jonah (or just his voice). However, since the body of Elias was killed in the Panopticon, Jonah does not use Elias' voice anymore. Jon, Martin, and Jonah are all disembodied, if we are to believe they are somehow inside the computer/other technology (ie Alice/Sam's phone in the pub scene) or in some way somewhere adjacent to the world of Protocol. So it could, in a dream-logicy eldritch sense, follow that Jonah is able to survive in his own creepy old ass man way, and use his original voice. Obviously, I cannot corroborate this claim in any meaningful way. We have not heard Augustus speak yet, but I think it is a possibility nonetheless.

The fact that Augustus supposedly shows up to read cases aloud significantly less than Chester and Neil could also be a clue. Maybe Jonah is weaker than Jon and Martin due to his injuries, and is therefore unable to materialise as often as Jon and Martin. Maybe the voice that speaks the true cases (because, similarly to how true statements were identified using the tape recorder in TMA, I imagine true cases will be singled out using the text to speech system) is relevant to the case itself - ie, Jonah only speaks when a case is heavily linked to the Eye, etc.

Furthermore, there's the question of who is spying on who and when/why. By this I mean that we hear our perspective switch between devices (the phone, the computer, the security camera during Colin and Sam's interaction, etc), and I believe that this happens because one or more of the 'Errors' (as I am going to refer to them henceforth) is travelling between devices to spy on the characters' conversations. What we hear is dictated by what the Errors, characters who have prior knowledge of the Fears, deem important. This is backed up by the episode's closing scene: Colin's paranoid closing lines. It is clear that Colin believes someone is listening to them, and it is implied that he has made a connection between this and the Errors. What intrigues me is the Errors' motivation for doing this at all. If what they deem important is what we hear, and this is the first that we are hearing, then it seems to me that it is Sam's arrival that has given them cause for concern, or (in Jonah's case) hope (if he is plotting to return, or something, I don't put it past the scheming weasel). So, why are they listening? And how can we really tell if what we are hearing is the spying of Jonah, or of Jon and Martin?

Another thing. Jonny makes a point of letting us know that Alice does not think the work they do is of any significance, or is checked by anyone. She constantly mentions it in passing and is very casual in her attitude towards work. We obviously have the foresight to know this isn't true. The reason I point this out is because of what Sam does when filling out his paperwork: he ticks the 'Response' box, to which Alice responds that it doesn't matter. This could be nothing, it probably is nothing, but I feel like the fact that Sam has ticked the onboarding box of a mysterious department of an already mysertious organisation might come up later...

Yes I know I am jumping to a lot of conclusions, especially where the Errors are concerned. Please take every theory you hear, from me or anyone else, with a grain of salt, this is all speculative. From a writer's perspective, I honestly think it's pretty likely that Chester and Neil aren't actually Jon and Martin, and just their voices taken by the Web or something, but shh I can dream.

Edit: oh my god they changed his name to Norris that is even worse. Jonny and Alex were fr like 'neil is too kind, we need the name to be Chester levels of horrific'

[theanxiousghostartist]

TMAGP 24 Spoilers (theories & reactions)

Pre - Case (Gwen and Lena chat):

So Gwen wants her position back and is swallowing her pride to do it? Ok, I understand she is traumatized, but I don't think that she would go as far as to be super respectful to Lena AND go back to the position that traumatized her... she has a plan. Even if being on the "inside" offers more protections than just quitting, we know Gwem hated the Externals and wants to fight back against them, so why would she go after the job?

I think she is going to act more like Lena in regards to working up to her former position and working in her former position - she needs to be blank, with little emotions, and calm. She is going to be safer on the inside - earning the trust of Lena, her higher-ups, the Externals, ect, then she's going to bring it crashing down. She (with the help of Alice and probably Sam, Celia, and Colin, perhaps Lena as well) is going to go what-Martin-encourged-Jon-to-do-in-season-5 and Gertrude-Robinson style and start trying to get rid of the Externals and stop whatever plan the higher-ups have.

There was static when Lena asked Gwen, "What has changed?" after she said that "[she] will require [Gwen] to be honest." Lena, are you compelling Gwen? Perhaps an Elias-type compulsion (like how he pulled out Daisy's story of her scar) or maybe an Annabelle-type compulsion (placing an idea in her head that ghe truth would be better). Either way, it's interesting!

Gwen was so calm when saying "Thank you, Lena" it was almost frightening. Also the audio glitch when she said it? I love the sarcasm Gwen!/gen

Lena was wary??? (referencing transcript here). Hmmm...

Maybe she's recognizing something in Gwen that she saw either in her younger self or in a former OIAR worker, or perhaps even Klaus?

Case:

(Norris Case)

Patricia Spaulding recently had her son Rupert, of which she does not remember much of the pregnancy or giving birth, who has a lot of similar features to vampires/avatars of the Flesh in TMA (black eyes, long, thin and curly tounge, sharp teeth). Rupert eats from her (literally) every 4 hours (and more), as advised by the "health visitor," causing Patricia to (literally) lose herself in taking care of him. Patricia also attends a mum support group with several other mums, including one named Celia. Patricia starts having hallucinations (auditory and visual) and is eventually consumed by Rupert.

Rupert definitely feels like an Avatar of the Flesh, but the case is also very reminiscent of the Spiral, especially with this "health visitor" and them normalizing Rupert's abnormal behavior and Patricia's abnormal responses. They were also "helping out" with Rupert every day by the time Patricia was consumed.

Theory: This "mum support group" is full of mum's that were chosen to raise Avatars of the Fears that were created in a similar way to Agnes, as "embodiments" of their Fears. Patricia had Rupert, an Avatar of the Flesh, and Celia, who I'm predicting is our Celia, had Jack, an Avatar of the Desolation (who was either created in some way by Agnes, or was created from Agnes (aka the Lightless Flame) to be her successor). The reason why Rupert was "so good" for Celia is because either she is protected by Agnes or Jack in some way due to her connection with Jack or because her "scent" is different (as described by Lady Mowbray), since she is from TMA- verse (or a combination of the two).

Post - Case (Alice, Celia, Sam chat):

Sam is nervous - that makes sense, given that Basira could be a dead end, like TMAGP- verse Teaholding (I'm so sad about that ���), and like Gertrude appeared to be.

Alice is trying to tell Sam and Celia about Gwen and the externals! Yay communication!!!

Sam, listen to her, please 😭😭

Yay! Celia, thank you for believing her! (Although we know the reason why lol)

"Is it really so hard to believe that something is hunting us back?" - Celia

"Hunting us back" is a really interesting choice of words. So is this Celia admitting to her knowledge of Sam looking for Externals, or Gwen and Lena looking for and attempting to control and utilize Externals, or Celia herself hunting Externals? I'm more inclined to believe that she's acknowledging that she and Sam are "hunting" Externals by looking into the Institute. But the implications...

(obligatory Starkid joke below)

They are definitely something to watch out for in the future.

Sam, PLEASE BELIEVE ALICE!

I feel like this seen is showing Sam's manipulative - side. It's very interesting to see this more front and center, rather than just through petty actions and small comments...

Thank you Celia, for getting these two to come to an agreement!

Post - Case (Basira!!!):

Basira is a deputy headmistress at St. Luke's? Not an officer?

I was really shocked at first, but this does make sense. We know that she is Eye- aligned and values logic (she was so close to becoming an Avatar during the Unknowing when she was using logic to get out of the unlogic). She also has always been more of an academic, being a teacher would make sense. Her boss, Mr. Donaldson, is the headmaster. I wonder if he will be important later on. She's been in her current role for almost 5 years, and this is her 4th educational position, as well as her 2nd position as deputy headmistress (however, there was an audio glitch here, so she could be embellishing her accomplishments here). She formerly held a position at Edgecroft Avademy, which she was nominated for an Pearson Award for. TMAGP!Basira seems to value her work in the same way as TMA!Basira.

She was caught off-guard by Sam's mention of the Institute, and then denied knowing anything about it. Perhaps she didn't have any involvement with it, but maybe a friend or family member did? (Please, I just need to hear Daisy again 😭😭😭)

Of course Celia would ask if Basira had any involvement with the police! She knew her as a police officer in the TMA-verse.

I really like today's episode. I absolutely hate horror involving childen, so I was terrified during the case (which is good! The episodes that really scare me are some of my favorites). It had really interesting implications for Celia and Gwen, and overall, the connections between the TMA and TMAGP universe.

[fakeagatha]

My Agatha All Along thoughts and theories! Might add to this later on?

‼️SPOILERS‼️

Ah, episode 4. SO much happened and each new episode has more information than the last.

Agatha caring for Teen

Now I had a feeling she'd be this way, the 3rd episode being a giveaway from the wine scene, but oh my goodness, when he was injured, she was absolutely devastated. The way that she was panicking and looking for solutions was just- holy shit.

Agatha's "Don't" only read this if you've seen the Funko pop spoilers.

‼️

Now when Agatha first told Lilia to shut up by saying "Don't", she then looked at Rio and said the same. Later, when Rio was talking about her "scar" she mentioned that she had to do something that was her job that hurt the person she loved. This makes me believe that Rio supposedly being Death, she had to take Nicholas away from Agatha when he died in whatever way, and she didn't have a choice to do so otherwise. That's why Agatha hated Rio in the beginning.

‼️

Agathario.

UGH. I mean, everything about the first episode was enough to make me go insane, the hand lick, "my heart is black and it beats for you", the choking. But I didn't realise it would escalate THAT quickly. I was screaming internally when she first appeared and gave Agatha a flower saying "My Lady", the studio scene as well. When Rio said "like old times?" While touching her upper thigh, I mean that implied something very sexual in a way that might not have even been intended. When Agatha moved her hand, I thought something was going to happen and then I was disappointed when she pressed the microphone. Now the scene that had us all on the floor, was the final scene. After Rio literally calls Agatha her scar, she follows her into the forest and they share this INTIMATE moment that was so special to me. It was so anticipating seeing Rio play with her hair and then suddenly, Agatha makes the first move and they share the most intimate hug ever, like what? Not to mention after that when she LITERALLY TRIED TO KISS HER, SHE LEANED IN TWICE. MY HEART STOPPED. I was so disappointed when it didn't happen, but Agatha's broken face when she said "The boy isn't yours." Ugh.

Episode 5. Very short, but there was a lot to unfold.

Rio defending Agatha

The way that Rio defended Agatha against Evanora since she was the only one who knew what really happened back then. Just yes.

Teen being a brat

I get that he cared for Alice, but Agatha clearly stated that she couldn't control it. He probably thought that he killed or seriously injured Agatha by throwing her into the mud, all because of a tantrum.

[not-a-mimic]

why is it an important point that alan is very light sensitive and prone to migranes? other than being a disability rep for those of us who cannot function in broad daylight without sunglasses and explaining why the bright lights in aw1 are such a pain to look at (from alan's point of view) but like. it's important.

we see it in the flashback with alice where alan is hangover and seemingly has his sunglasses next to his bed already - a little weird right? and alice mentions them as well - because this is common. because he often needs them. frankly speaking from experience you don't get to the point where the sunglasses become a mandatory bedside fixture unless it's a really bad day often - which must be the case here. we also see then in 'herald of darkness' where "Dark shades could never save the day" and we see alan in shades. it's common for him. he does it often. mood! anyway mr champion of light being sensitive to light is just a funny coincidence right? wrong.

I also suspect that alan's tendency towards full outfits is also a part of this. no sane human wears that many layers in september, and alan specifically covers pretty much all the skin possible without looking weird.  also a lot of his article shots in rose'.... shrine have sunglasses and thick layers as well. this man is SENSITIVE sensitive to light and that's a coincidence I can't ignore in the remedy!verse.

alan was born (as stated in aw2) in 1977 - we don't know when, or where as he moved to new york later. his mother spent most of his childhood in psychiatric facilities, and his father is not only non existent but highly suspiously fictional (the only object we are told alan has of him is the clicker. the fucking clicker. tom zane's clicker that was definitely written into alan's life before he was born and was not a gift from his father proper. frankly we know the least about alan's childhood compared to all other remedy!verse protags - not knowing where or truly when he was born is important because it leaves options.

Light sensitive could be a coincidence - but we thought that about the nightmares too, and they turned out to be important clues. and hell-  *Scratch* is less sensitive to light than Alan is - only flashbangs and the super steong hand flares make him flinch, direct light seems fine unless super powered and normal flares are nothing. alan actively gets headaches from these things and obviously it hurts him. wtf is up with that? when the protection of the dark presence patches up your weakness you have a issue.

theory time:

we know alan is tied to this god damn lake. zane wrote it so - at very least alan was destined to fall in it at the end of aw1. but what if there is more? we also know that alan's darkness became at least the aw2 dark presence which. fine? an endless cycle of destroying yourself while under the impression that that's not yourself. we don't know if the dark presence in aw1 is also this same one, and if it isn't we now know there can be multiple dark entites (implied by Mr Scratch also). if it is then damn alan has issues.

I don't know if its just me but the fact that the small darkness within someone can be escalated out to being the whole larger dark presence at full power feels... off. that feels like it doesn't work with what we know of the entities- unless there was more darkness in alan then originally suspected fueling this presence. the strength of the dark presence born from him combined with the strength of his light sensitivity makes me very suspicious to how human he was originally, and how much of alan is just lake bullshit. if he was a creature or creation of the darkness forced into a human body (perhaps the 1976 awe the andersons fought back in brightfalls wasn't all it seemed. maybe the dark presence or something else was looking for a crack to escape through. maybe it succeeded, but was reborn as a human who was already showing signs at a young age of being light sensitive and also being a parautiltiarian, and a strong one at that.

maybe there was never a father because there was never a mother - linda wake may have found a child on the lake shore and adopted it as her own, not knowing the truth behind its origins. maybe the torchbearers who operated in brightfalls around that time were involved. maybe the reason alan and tom look identical is the dark entity needed human dna when being reborn as a human and zane was there at the right time. could be why other traits are shared, and zane foresaw and influenced the creation of the dark place to get what he wanted (after all it was borrowing from him his face and personality - at very least it could give him wiggle room to escape?)

alan always had... issues. darkness. a lot for a man. so what if its all supernatural bullshit? no one is looking too closely because there is supernatural stuff going on. I'm not sure this man is human, or at least his soul isn't and never was. some darkness wearing a human skin maybe, sensitive to the light but forced to manage it. I don't know, maybe I'm looking too much into this.

[abominable-space-they]

Agatha all Along theory

Spoilers through ep 5

Ok first we need the set up

In this magical retelling of The Wizard of Oz Jennifer is the tin man, bound to inaction, Lilia is thr cowardly lion always afraid of what might come to pass, and Alice is the scarecrow who thinks she has nothing to offer but does.

Agatha is Dorothy

It's heavily implied here that Teen is toto, though I think this is a misdirect.

Rio is the one she's known for ages, Rio protects her, Rio loves her, Rio is fearless, Rio gets her into shenanigans, Rio is pissed off at her mom & company who tried to hurt her, Rio literally licked her hand in the first episode

Rio is Toto

Now Wanda is definitely the wicked witch of the East, that makes Teen, Warlock, either the wicked witch of the West or Glenda the Good witch

And I'd argue for now, it's both. Teen is Glenda the Good Witch and Billy/Warlock is the wicked witch of the West secretly driving a lot of the action because of the death of his mother & family.

Ok so now episode five

This episode is poppy field incident in Wizard of Oz.

I had to go rewatch it, bc I haven't seen it since I was probably 8. So in that trial, The Wicked Witch of the West places a poppy field in their path, which would poison them with good feelings until they faded away.

Dorothy leads them into the field, it's beautiful, they're frolicking. Dorothy passes out, the tin man gets stuck again, the cowardly lion passes out out of fear, they all lay down in the poppies and almost drift away.

They realize something is wrong and scream for help, Glenda is super imposed over the screen casting magic to loosen the hold of the poppies enough that they can wake up and run away.

I think that the theories that this was all or partially a dream are gonna be right.

I also think Teen led them into that place and left the door open for the Salem seven (they're the flying monkeys after all) so he would have a way to coral them to this place

Maybe he originally wanted to punish Dorothy and leave her there, maybe he planned on siphoning his powers back while she was possessed by her mother or sleeping/high

Whatever it was, that didn't go as planned, he blames Agatha for fucking up his plan.

When Agatha says you're just like your mother it does inspire him, not to murder though, to wake them up.

My guess is the mud is a misdirect and he's using it to wake them up, because hell yeah he is just like his mother

But that means something different to him then Agatha. His mother bent the rules of space time to bring his father back to life. His mother went to any lengths to save the people she loved... Including becoming a villain in the eyes of some.

He asked Agatha to save Alice, she can't, he's furious because she was the one who caused all this in the first place, he couldn't be expected to know it would go like that.

Then she reminded him who he is, and even though she meant it meanly, like you're a hypocrite just like your mother, you're delusional just like your mother, you're willing to kill people to get what you want just like your mother, you call me the bad guy while being just like me just like your mother.

But it was still enough to remind him that there is no one better suited to breaking through some sort of pocket dimension unreality then the son of the Scarlet Witch.

So that's what he's doing, I don't think he's taking them off the road, I think he's pushing them down down down, back onto the road.

But really, also... Where is Rio?

Maybe Agatha is actually Rio, maybe the corpse of Alice is really Agatha, still sleeping in the poppies

Whatever it is specifically, none of this is exactly as it seems and I can't wait to see how it plays out

[child-of-the-danube]

Going absolutely bonkers with theories vol.2 Electric Boogaloo

Post no.1 was focused towards the episode being Lilia's vision. This one is more on the Teen subconsciously controlling them/it being his trial AND/OR the Salem Seven messing with them.

Regarding Teen:

- Already mentioned that the whole cabin in the woods, 80s look, Ouija boards stuff is very teen horror tropes and Teen is the one leading it all. Before, they'd shut him off mostly or only occasionally listen but this time they all listened to him explaining the rules and let him lead them into the trial. He wants to see himself as equal and useful and has brought up wanting to truly be part of the coven in every episode (e.g "The curse attacked me. Does that mean I'm part of the coven now?")

- He lost his spell book right at the beginning, the one thing that gave him power in the coven was his collected knowledge on witchcraft. Losing it points to him having to use an alternative route without relying on an aid like magic or basically a cheat paper.

- As for everyone being out of character except Rio, somebody pointed out in their post really well how all of them seem almost like exaggerations/caricatures of themselves in this episode, but more so, in the way that Teen probably sees them. He is closest to Alice, so of course he'd put her as the "saviour", the one who'd try and do the right thing. When it comes to Jen, the only interactions he's had with her was her showing clear distaste for Agatha most of the time and her antagonistic attitude is turned to 100 in this episode. I don't think he can control Rio as she is not human/just a witch and is probably out of earthly bounds so she is in the clear. Lilia he doesn't really interact with beside seeing her as the old strange lady that doesn't believe in herself and always talks about how hurtful the stereotypes about witches are so beside that being even more on the nose this episode, he leaves her alone. Agatha he's deeply conflicted about. She's shown him kindness and encouragement but clearly everyone around her thinks she's irredeemably evil beside Rio so he is at the space between wanting to see her as good and thinking she deserves punishment. Lilia looks at HIM and not Evanora when she repeats the phrase "punish Agatha".

- He is always pointing out how they're putting themselves in danger by fighting and not working together and the entirety of the episode is exactly that, so I'm again inclined to think it's Teen's view of them and him trying to calm them down and work together is what he has to do to pass the trial (which he fails at)

- Somebody also pointed out how "Don't use the board alone" was one of the rules and when Nick talks through the board and the watches beep signifying the time having run out, it was only him at the board - a violation of rules which he doesn't pay for.

- He still ends up getting power even if the trial was a failure and they're worse off than they were before which is strange. Was Agatha accidentally killing Alice the confirmation he needed to snap and break his sigil or was this his purpose on the road the entire time - to play a demiurge of sort/devil on the shoulder between them? Was he sent by someone to slither his way into Agatha's life with or without knowing what exactly the purpose of it is?

Now to the Salem Seven :

- In the trailer for Lilia's episode, the Salem Seven are present at the trial but this episode they couldn't breach a simple wooden door? Something smells off there.

- Before the coven enters the house, they pass through the swarm of bees/wasps(?) of one of them. We have no idea what their actual powers are beside being able to turn into animals, so maybe messing with reality is one of them even tho I'd put that more into the Teen category given who his mother is and what WandaVision was about.

- Then the trial begins and there's no Moon phase on the door and no magic is used, nobody's skill is tested in an obvious way as they were before, no elemental danger like we had with water and fire etc. The only "danger" this episode comes in the form of possessed Agatha and the inner turmoil of the coven. In a way, the trial has no clear point or goal. In the previous ones, after the hardships, they ended up with new gained confidence, resolution of problems, getting their power back, closer than they were before, but not this time. This one was purely focused on fucking with Agatha.

- Excluding already present Rio, there's only two people fitting to send as torture devices for Agatha. First one is her mother, the only one she might still care about from the Salem lot she "killed" back then and the other person would be Nick. Rio said she hated ghosts a.k.a souls who linger due to unfinished business but Nick didn't even appear as a ghost in this so-called Agatha's trial despite being her biggest weak spot and trauma. Maybe he is comfortable in Rio's realm as he's familiar with her and she can probably protect him in a way from his soul/ghost being used by others like the Salem Seven.

- Evanora exploits Agatha's trauma with words and then possesses her, which could be taken as a strategy to make someone who can attack her do it and confirm that Agatha IS in fact the monster everyone thinks she is and that they should abandon her cause the Salem Seven know Agatha has no control of her absorption powers. She looks genuinely distraught when she snaps out of it and sees Alice dead and even goes in to help.

- The whole Teen turning on them thing is very much another torture method intended for Agatha. What better way to fuck her psyche up some more after mommy dearest than to make a child she deeply cares for turn on her?

- And where were the Salem Seven once they got out of the house? Wouldn't they wait and stage an ambush if this was a truly trial they couldn't interfere with and not just one of their versions of punishing Agatha? Since we don't know their powers, maybe they can't actually actively hurt her and have to find a way around to do it like through possession via Evanora cause what would the point of possession be other than to have someone do the dirty work of attacking Agatha for them. I'm sure Evanora would have tried to kill her on the spot if she could. She tells the coven at some point to leave Agatha with her and go but we've seen before that they physically CAN NOT leave the houses before the time runs out, so how would they be able to leave half way through if this was an actual trial?

- Again, pointed out by other people, but the screen ration in previous episodes changed to full screen when the trails began. This episode, it remained the same the whole time with so was that truly a trial?

Anyways, everything about this episode is weird, suspicious as hell and can be read a 100 different and/or overlapping ways. I need someone to invent a time machine and bring me to next week's episode immediately or I'll combust

[agatharkn3ss]

Lilia's premonitions theory (contains spoilers)

Well, my brain has been in overdrive and I love puzzles so... "buckle up!"

If it's too long for you - you can jump straight into the last section titled "How does it all fit"... I really think there could be something there.

OTHER THEORIES

There have been many theories about Lilia's powers and her moments of visions. Some think it's just some loose wiring on most part, some think it's past traumatic events catching up with her, some think they are predictions of the future, some even went as far as suggesting that Lilia (loosely) predicts the last words of the next person who's going to die (based on the fact she said "Get off me!" in ep.2 and we hear Sharon shout "Don't touch me!" in ep.3). But we keep seeing more and more of Lilia's blips in ep.4, they make less sense to any of the above theories, so personally I am not sold on any of them.

There is also a possibility that her premonitions could just be linked to the events that follow - but the words aren't accurate because Lilia can't quite see the "full picture". So her screaming in her shop could be linked to Teen's reaction when Salem Seven attacked in that same episode. Or when she says "Alice, don't", we see Agatha pleading "Don't" with Rio.

BUT then I saw people discussing that maybe these are actually "misplaced" moments in time - from the future AND the past. And that they will make sense if they were said in the correct moment, but somehow got lost and sent to a different time. For example - when Lilia talks about the vampire by the campfire "You know, we really kind of hated each other in the beginning, but now..." then zones out. We could assume she's still talking about the vampire, but this pause could actually be easily filled with "I love you guys!" from the "botox" scene in ep.3, because she was actually touched by their campfire stories. Or when she shouts "Get off me" in ep.2, it could be taken right out of the ep.4 scene where she's burning on the floor, shouting "Get it off me!".

WHAT WE KNOW

All those theories got me mighty intrigued, so of course I made a list of all of Lilia's apparent 'blips' and tried to make sense of it! I believe there are two types of Lilia's visions - one where she has "wrong messages" and one where she exclaims names of tarot cards.

The tarot cards she mentioned so far:

Three of Pentacles - right after she wrote the coven names down

High Priestess - when she meets Jen at Agatha's house

Three of Swords - as Jen is trying to heal Teen

The "blips" are:

shouting and flailing her hands - when Agatha and Teen ask her to join the coven in ep.2

writing the coven names (same scene as above) - this is the only premonition where we see burst of power - the electricity flicker around her, the water boils and it all seems really intense.

shouting "Get off me!" and looking like she was pushing someone away - just before the witches begin summoning the Road

"I love you guys" - when Jen questions Sharon about her poison symptoms in ep.3

"Try to save Agatha" - when she and Agatha are searching for potion ingredients

"Which is it, am I wispy or am i kooky?" - when talking to Alice about her mum during the trial in ep.4

"Alice! Alice don't" - shortly after the one above

Zones out - during the campfire scene when she talks about the vampire scar

We also know that her Air trial will be all about tarot (confirmed by Patti herself) and the promos show Lilia in some sort of princess dress and tiara, Agatha as the green Wicked Witch of the West and Jen looking like the Evil Queen from Snow White but in the old hag form. This makes me think in her trial she will have to confront all those stereotypes about witches that she always said she hated so much. She will likely have to do a tarot reading too. There is also a room with ceiling full of swords that could fall down on them. And finally, in that same room there is a brief shot with her and Salem Seven, flowing mid-air.

One promo also shows one of Salem Seven (Vertigo) opening her mouth to release a swarm of cicadas (her spirit animal).

We know the witches slowly regain their powers once they passed their trial.

There is also this thing about Alice (I will need to make a separate post to explain this) - where my prediction is that in ep.5 she will try to protect the coven by attacking Agatha while she's in her "possessed" form. Unfortunately, Agatha will (willingly or not) completely syphon her powers and Alice will die.

HOW DOES IT ALL FIT?

Well. I think we will potentially get some answers during or after Lilia's trial, once she starts regaining her powers. I think Lilia will try to send a message to the witches in the past, but she will still be struggling with getting the times right.

I could almost see a scene where she sits at her crystal ball or does a tarot reading and talks, not realising that EVERYTHING she says is "sent out" without any filter.

Something like...

.........

Lilia is in a room with other witches, it is a high pressure situation because the Salem Seven are chasing them. Her task is to send the names of the witches to her past self so that Agatha can form her coven - they realised that without the list, they would've never gotten there. Maybe their existence or memory depends on it.

So Lilia starts a tarot reading and begins "tuning in" to her memories, saying the names of the revealed cards out loud - "High Priestess" (she says it in a surprise voice as her vision suddenly flickers to the moment of meeting Jen), "Three of Swords" etc. Maybe one of other witches in the room starts antagonising her kookiness, so that she would just hurry up, because this is not working and Salem Seven are close. So Lilia responds in annoyance "Which is it, am I wispy or am I kooky?!" But then she realises she is standing in front of Alice from the fire trial (in spirit anyway, Lilia is still physically in the scary room). She exclaims in relief "Alice!" and realises this is also her chance to warn Alice so that she doesn't die. She begins saying "Alice, don't try to save Agatha!", but mid way through, her spirit gets transported to the first trial, searching for potion ingredients. So Alice only hears "Alice don't..." and Agatha hears "...try to save Agatha". At some point Lilia is transported to sitting in front of the campfire, reminiscing their stories. This is a fond memory so she starts saying "You know, we really kind of hated each other in the beginning, but now.." and before she can finish, she gets transported back to the "Huge tiny lies" house "...I love you guys".

Maybe at some point Salem Seven break their way into the tarot room and one of them attacks Lilia. She screams "Get off me!" and pushes them away (while her spirit is transported to the moment before they opened the Road). Vertigo releases her cicadas, flying around Lilia's head. She flails her hands and screams, while her spirit is inside her shop where Agatha and Teen just approach her. She realises she's close, focuses all her energy and channels her spirit to write the list of names herself. It takes enormous effort to stay focused on that one moment, hence the energy around her is bursting. She either doesn't have enough time to finish writing Rio's name or feels cheeky and draws a black heart instead. She finishes by revealing and naming the last tarot card: "Three of Pentacles". She completes the task, the End!

....

So..... What does everyone think?!!!!!!

[that-cartoony-villain]

after that agatha finale i have many thoughts about rio as death and all the symbolism behind her actions so beware of spoilers for the whole series also in no particular order its gonna be stuff i remember so I'll be jumping around

I'm going to start with the last agathario scene that we gays were hoping The Kiss™️ which is kinda obvious about a kiss from death which is very common in literature and it symbolizes dying so that part was very direct, idk if this means they never kissed before or not but in that moment agatha had a clear goal of getting rio's power for herself and they both knew it would kill her as she said in the first ep... this does imply that she probably tried to do this before but rio stopped her when they were in love all those centuries ago

which kinda goes into a theory that maybe their first entanglement (whatever that implies) created nicky, cause agatha says she didn't do a spell or incantation to create him, he was made from scratch, and rio being The green witch™️ deals not only with death and decay but the cycle of life and death, creation and destruction, so it makes sense that he is their child, created from their love, which is why it hurt them both when she had to take him away, he was also something that challenged the balance of the universe, like billy, and rio allowed agatha to keep him with a timetable that nobody knew

and that takes me into the witches death that agatha killed to keep her son alive, she knew that giving bodies to death would allow rio to turn a blind eye to her child, and it makes for great symbolism with the sentence "death follows wherever they go" because it wasn't that agatha wanted to kill people, she had to so nicholas could survive, because death *was* following her wherever she went, they fell in love and rio had to make the tough decision of leaving her so she wouldn't take away agatha's most prized possession, their kid, and once she did have to do it she still kept following agatha because now she was actually killing witches just to have power and stay alive, she was grieving and murder became her go to (not a good thing) but death kept following wherever she went

and that is possibly why rio never got over her, she was always pursuing agatha and she didn't have time to let go, so at the end when agatha makes the deal to give up billy in exchange of rio letting go of her it had both the meaning of allowing her to be immortal and to forget about agatha, she was tired of having death follow her and they both knew the only way that could happen was for rio to give up her feelings and stop wanting to be with her

another thing is the whole tarot symbolism of death, as a major arcana in most decks death means the closing of a cycle, it isn't a bad card even though people see death as a bad thing, but the whole lilia ep was about showing how her cycle was about to finish (not necessarily meaning her death btw) and through all of the road each of them had their cycles closed, alice managed to get rid of her curse, jen got her power back, lilia finally understood her timeline and organized her thoughts to save her coven, billy found more power and possibly where his twin could be, agatha got the power she wanted for a bit and rio finally put agatha on the ground

also i could talk about how lilia might still be alive but that's a different rant that will come some other time

anyway i just really loved all the death symbolism throughout the whole show and how well they portrayed everything, aubrey did an amazing job as rio and i do hope they use her again in the mcu since we've had so many deaths and there will be more and how she deals with some of the things that don't necessarily follow the natural order of things (just please don't make it comic death cause rio is a lesbian she would never fall in love with thanos)

[a-couple-of-notes]

OKAY what a finale, folks! Deliberately not reading everyone else's thoughts until later (although I did chat briefly with @kshaar -- thank you for enduring my walls of Discord text), but I'm beginning my processing by writing this out.

I have a few issues with how all of this played out, as I'm sure many of you do, but I mostly really liked this finale. I'm so, so aware that it's hard to stick a landing--especially in a fandom as theory-heavy as Marvel, with the dedication of the queer fanbase on top of it. I think it's commendable how much they executed well, and how deliberately they aligned it with their vision of the show, not the one that would make everyone happy (if there is such a thing).

To the stuff I liked: unpopular opinion, but I like the order of the episodes as it is--final big boss fight first, quiet intimate flashback as the finale. Or, at least, I see the vision--I'm still iffy on whether the pacing actually feels good, but that probably needs another rewatch. This show has always been about unpacking Agatha, peeling off her masks until we get to some kind of truth, ugly or beautiful or both. Of course the ending is the truest thing we've ever gotten out of Agatha--the real story of her son and his death.

I loved everything about Nicky, Rio, and Agatha in the flashback. It is so beautifully mundane. A mother's love. A natural death. Selfishness. Grief. Anger. It's gorgeous, and the version of the ballad we got felt so, so fitting.

Everything about Jen! That unbinding spell...whoo. Sasheer Zamata knocked it out of the goddamn park with her performance--the joy, the sorrow, the agony of relief. Man. Even if the rest of the finale flopped on its belly (which it didn't), that alone would have been worth the price of admission. (Also ALSO: Agatha hate-flirting with Jen over confession of horrible traumatic action that fucked up Jen's whole shit! The Jen/Agatha truthers win!)

Alice. Alice my beloved. Ali Ahn, you do so much with the little screen time you have and I applaud you for it. I'm very grateful their cap on her arc was "I could make my life mean something/you're a protection witch. You died protecting someone" and not "you get to see your mother again" because, as I pointed out in the tags of one of my previous posts, that's the real tragedy of Alice. Her life, her freedom, her potential.

To the things I'm mixed on: that final battle, man. I think they did an admirable job of focusing what could have been a generic Marvel magic-blast-y slugfest into distinct character beats, but there was a lot going on in that fight. And compared to previous Rio and Agatha interactions, their big climactic one felt a little...weightless. Those factors make it much less clear why Agatha and Rio are fighting--like, on an emotional level; I understand intellectually why--which means that what also feels unclear is...

...The not-a-sacrifice. I like 90% of this. I like that Billy is finally able to communicate with Agatha via mind powers, because he's started to accept how alike they are. I like that Nicky is once again Agatha's turning point. I even can get behind the sacrifice as the creators' intention--not what I would have preferred, but a solid narrative choice nonetheless. Still, I am super unclear what, exactly, Agatha is thinking when she turns around. Is she just remembering Nicky himself--how much Billy is like him and how ashamed she would be if she left? If so, it feels odd that Agatha's version of sacrifice is kissing Rio so honestly. Later, we learn that Agatha was taking a risk to become a ghost. So when Billy asks how Nicky died, is Agatha remembering how Rio gave him time--the kiss as a fucked-up version of recognition, the risk being Agatha relying on Death's special treatment once again? That would be a better end to Agatha and Rio's arc, but there's no expository line, no echoing "I can only offer time." And Agatha and Rio. DON'T. TALK. IN PRESENT-DAY EPISODE 9.

This is my main gripe. I am aware I am griping with Megalopolis and FFC, not the show or its creators. But goddamn if more Aubrey Plaza would have fixed almost everything in that finale--and I mean this in a narrative sense, not just because I love Aubrey Plaza. It would have clarified where Agatha is ending re: her relationship with Rio (and Nicky), and it would have bookended the first episode so well (the three-player drama returns!) I am actually irritated about this.

Ghost Agatha looks so goofy. Like, I understand the vision here--the parallels to her mother, and of course Agatha would find a way to piss off Rio in her own domain. It's iconic. Still. There's something about Ghost!Agatha that's so much harder to buy into on a gut level, a kind of emotional distance created in such an emotional, tactile show.

Billy. Oh, Billy. I like your arc. I like its execution, while heaving a grudging sigh of "yeah, that makes sense for this story but I'm still kind of disappointed" re: the creation of the Witches' Road. I love the idea that Billy's ultimate arc was to accept the darkness in himself, and all the things he's capable of. But I really, really wish Agatha had had one more conversation with...not you. (Agatha naturally falls into a mentor-type role for Billy, which isn't necessarily bad or not part of her arc, but does at least lead to me feeling like we don't get an endpoint for Agatha in present day that's entirely her own.)

And I suppose that's the crux of my mixed feelings: the show began with Agatha asking who she was, before Billy even came into the picture. The viewers get to see a glimpse into Agatha's real self in the Ep. 9 flashback. But at the end of episode 9, Agatha is still running from it. She's barely touched her own grief (yes, yes, insert joke about Rio here), and we don't see her making that choice. I emphasize that because I am not categorically opposed to Agatha not completing her grief arc; god knows 9 episodes would have struggled to do that. I'm fine that they left some threads hanging. It's just that something in between Agatha (not-)sacrificing and Agatha coming back as affably-evil Casper is missing, and it feels like a gaping omission.

Other notes: Billy dramatically charging up the hex to create a memorial was great--another way the finale lets us into the beauty of the mundane. It's not to bring everyone back, or go down the Road again. But it's important, this act of remembering.

Though I'm disappointed we didn't get found family coven true, I'm at peace with how that thread wound up. This was a show about Agatha; the coven as individuals act as foils and reflections of her. They break and succeed in similar ways as Agatha. And they were a coven--a messed-up, broken coven who tried their best. It wasn't enough to save them, but it was enough for them to grow closer to the people they wanted to be. Agatha using something from every witch in her coven--Alice's protection spell, Lilia's divination, Jen's healing--in the fight was truly poignant, and tells me she'll remember them and carry them forward. (Also, the contrast against the flashback! "I cannot heal, I cannot protect you from what's coming, and I cannot divine when she'll come for you." Agatha needed them to be her coven! And they were. And they were.)

Final thoughts: (This is a misnomer; I'm still digesting.) Agatha All Along became a more complex, difficult show than I thought it would be pre-Episode 5. Occasionally this meant it disappointed me, had places where its budget, scheduling, Marvel-ness, and decisions regarding exposition struggled to connect things, but overall, it's a damn good show. And I would rather see a funny, challenging, ambitious show made with love for the craft than a safe, big-budget, chopped-up Marvel movie in a blender. And hey, it was super gay! (Please don't come near me with the "Bury Your Gays" stuff. Please. It's not that, I promise you.)

[gavillain]

AGATHA EPISODE SIX SPOILER DISCUSSION; HOLY SHIT THAT WAS A GOOD EPISODE!!!!

A LOT happened in this episode, and we got a LOT of answers!

I'm really glad we got Billy Kaplan/Billy Maximoff's full backstory here at the midway point, and I really enjoy the way this episode bridged the gap between WandaVision and Agatha All Along. I'm just really excited to see Billy's story getting adapted here in general too. Obviously it's a bit different from the comics, but they kept a lot of the core ideas of it in tact. And I'm super happy to see that they explicitly kept his Jewishness in tact as well given the MCU's unfortunate habit of erasing or neglecting Jewish identities. We find out here that Billy Maximoff's spirit is inhabiting the body of Billy Kaplan, who died in a car accident the day the Hex came down. We also find out that Lilia was the one who put the sigil on Billy after reading his palm and seeing his broken life line (I was surprised but I thought that reveal was very satisfying). We find out that Billy's boyfriend's name is Eddie, so he's not Teddy Altman and thus probably not Hulkling, which I personally never really thought but other people were theorizing.

Oh and RALPH BOEHNER RETURNS!!!! :D Honestly, I didn't think I would care, but my boyfriend and I went WILD when we saw him pop up. A+ callback right there :D And I like him being the one to sort of facilitate Billy going to Westview after Agatha. After how little he did in WandaVision post-reveal that he wasn't Pietro, it was nice to see him get a bit more relevance again in the overarching plot.

Agatha pulls herself out of the mud and survives, and I also really loved how Agatha wasn't mad or vengeful towards Billy. She was legitimately excited to see him and know who he was. Their relationship is one of the most interesting parts of the show, so I'm glad to see that it's not totally being burned to the ground. Obviously, Billy is fully in the right not to trust Agatha, but we're now at a juncture where the two of them are going to be more open and honest with each other, and that has me excited! We just saw Agatha last episode prove why she is still very much a villain, but we also saw that Billy has a bit of a dark side in him too. I think we're gonna see Billy be torn between good and evil as the show goes forward and deciding what type of witch he wants to be, with Agatha being the proverbial devil on his shoulder. I made the comparison a few weeks back about Agatha and Billy being Maleficent and Riku from Kingdom Hearts in another font, and that seems to be the direction we're heading, which excites me.

Theory wise, there's not a whole lot of new theories for me at least, other than the ones continuing from previous episodes, but I do have a few more scattered thoughts: *Eddie uses the black heart emoji for Billy, so does that mean HE was the black heart that Lilia wrote on the list instead of Rio? If so, it's kind of weird that HE would be a "black heart" in any way. But also this still has me thinking that Blackheart may yet be involved. Not as Rio (who we pretty much know is Death due to leaks), but maybe somewhere else? I dunno, I'm not giving up hope that he or Mephisto are involved, even if it's just as an after credits scene.

*BILLY HAVING A BLACK CAULDRON POSTER IN HIS ROOM MADE ME SO FRIGGIN' HAPPY! To see Disney acknowledging that movie always warms my heart, but to know that Billy is a fan in this universe is REALLY cool and gives me a sort of kinship with him. Love to the underloved!

*Rio is still MIA since Alice died. Is she still tending to Alice or is she doing something else?

*Lilia and Jen aren't dead, and we know as much, but they didn't escape the bog with Agatha, so I'm wondering if the next trial will see the get out or maybe see them waiting there for Agatha and Billy.

*Billy is apparently on the road to find Tommy, which makes a lot of sense. I know people are upset that he's not after Wanda, but I genuinely don't think Wanda's return to the MCU was ever going to be in another TV show. I think, if Wanda returns, it's going to be in Avengers Doomsday, much like her return in the comics during Children's Crusade. But I'm excited to see if Tommy DOES return in this show or if Billy's ambitions are going to remain unresolved at the end of the road. I'm excited to find out!

NEXT EPISODE WITH SPEED PLEASE! I have a MIGHTY need to see Billy in that Maleficent cosplay in what I assume is the next trial… yes, I am, as ever, myself XD

[theanxiousghostartist]

TMAGP S1 Epilogue Spoilers (reactions and theories)

Gwen thought it was Lena? While I guess it makes sense, since she was the last one to leave - I don't think she's coming back to Gwen, it would have more likely been an External or Alice.

Ok, so Lena's not answering her phone... I know it's a little detail, but I wonder if her superiors took her out back and...

Please please please, Lena, still be alive 😭😭

"...multiple counts of negligence, incompetence, possibly even corruption." Could Lena have been taking the Gertrude-Robinson-approach to her job? Could she have been trying to mess up rituals and keep track of the Externals so they didn't do any rituals?

I feel so bad for Alice having to break the news to Gwen 😭

And Celia, just - went home? As far as she knows, she just sent a man into a hellscape full of the Fears... Perhaps she's grieving alone?

Gwen, why are you asking Alice for a manual on how to do Lena's job??? Do you think Lena did her job well because she was good at it?? 😭😭

Yay! We remembered about Colin!

Colin's ringtone is described as "It is an uncharacteristically upbeat tune." In the transcript. I have a bad feeling about Colin. I wonder if the ringtone is going to mean something later on, I didn't recognize it from any previous episodes or TMA, so maybe it's foreshadowing or a mark of the Fears? It sort of reminds me of "Mr. Bonzo's Theme song" (it is not the same beat, though).

Yay! Sam's alive :D

But where is [Error]? Shouldn't they have fallen through with Sam?

Yeah... I think Colin's dead...

Gwen, I wouldn't open the server rack if I were you...

Yeah, Colin's dead.

He was in the Server Rack, which makes me think that he fused with Fr3D1, sort of like the Custodian from TMAGP 30 merged with the Hilltop Centere. When he called Alice (TMAGP 30), he called Fr3D1 "Freddy," something he'd never done before - "I messed up, Alice. Freddy's...I messed up." I wonder if he's confusing Fr3D1 with himself with "Freddy's...I?"

Or maybe instead of turning into a vessel for Fr3D1, he started going the 'Sergey Ushanka' route and got literally caught in Fr3D1? Could he come back as a voice?

Or perhaps he becomes a battery for Fr3D1 to keep it powered?

I'm even more worried for Teddy now...

That was a really interesting episode! I'm super excited for S2 and the little fluff episode (: