#i have no problem talking about SA as a CSA survivor myself but i think theres a line that needs to be drawn on certain things

[eatyourheartvalentine]

Oof- it's only 7:30 AM and the ask box is overflowing! I might need to need to ask everyone to refrain from sending scenario asks for a bit so we can try and catch up...

Also, I might need to make some rules for future asks- please bare with us (⁠´⁠°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥⁠ω⁠°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥⁠｀⁠) 🐰

[dirkpilled]

as someone whos been through a shit ton of child and teen sexual trauma of all sorts you can think of, it really fascinates me how many people very much dislike when people recover from trauma in a way that they don't like. Like they will have all the 'support' for you until the second you actually heal more and they decide its not what they expected and makes them weirded out.

For all of my teenaged life I could not engage sexually with others. Everytime i tried it was never for myself, and rather because I felt like I had to in order to not disappoint them and myself. And for a lot of these people it had nothing to do with what they were doing or saying at all; I just had a personal consistent problem with feeling like I had to no matter what, even with their reassurance i didnt have to. I had desire to have sex with people, but I would shut down without any control when it could potentially happen. It was only recently where I met someone who I could take all the time in the world with to experiment and feel comfortable sexually with when I finally crashed through that mind-wall full force and could enjoy sex on my own accord and without dissociating out of my mind.

I've become more outspoken about this now, I talk about sex much more often than I ever did before, I am always up to trying new things and discover shit about myself because I wasn't able to before, and I now get jokes that I'm a sex addict and whatever. And I think they're pretty funny, but they do remind me of how theres a lot of people who genuinely think even merely posting too much about sexuality and kink is 'unhealthy' or that having louder desires and expressive sexuality means there must be some harm involved making you do this. I've posted about this before, but it is a lot to do with ableism rhetoric and believing that restriction and harassment of csa/sa survivors, especially kinky ones, will help them in the long run because they cannot fathom a disabled person making a good choice for themselves.

Trauma recovery regarding sexual trauma is not very well understood by people and is often stigmatized in a way with how some people seem to prefer you to stay sexually oppressed than to dare go loud and deviant. You either develop a really strict christian/conservative type relationship to sex or you just should not recover I guess. You realize quite quickly that a ton of people on earth do not genuinely care for people recovering from trauma or their autonomy, they just really like saying they care in order to feel like a good person.

[sophieinwonderland]

The "Sophie is Dangerous" doc targeting SAS, and refusing to take responsibility for their own actions.

In the latest update for the "Sophie is Dangerous" doc, the author has expanded their scope to targeting SAS, attacking SAS for... calling them out for their own actions?

The Minimization

Looking back in retrospect, it’s so crazy knowing that this stupid, one off thing has had such a profound effect on our life and where we are currently are now, including our standing with the pro-endo community, can essentially be traced back to us telling an anti-endo to suck our dick.

WOW! That "essentially" sure is pulling A LOT of weight in that sentence, isn't it?

I know you've dubbed your actions as "#cockgate" to present it as this funny quirky thing... but like, your first post that started it was actually just wishing harm on anti-endos.

Just look at the screenshots you posted in your own doc!

This was the inciting incident. Not telling sysmeds to suck your 🐓.

I don't even have much of a problem with this one, personally. It's just wishing the fruits of their labors, and what they have wished on others, onto them.

When you started talking about your 🐓, it was in the context of attacking people for having a disorder.

This was also one of the big things that convinced me to get involved in that situation.

Because you weren't just attacking sysmeds anymore. You were being openly ableist towards all CDD systems. Including pro-endo ones.

And when you did tell them to suck your 🐓, you did so by telling this group that consists largely of survivors of sexual assault that it's the only thing they were good for!

Every single post you've made talking about these actions have minimized them. Even after posting the screenshots, this was your takeaway:

This really hurt to see. Mod Dude was the reason we got harassed, sent death threats, and why the allegations got so out of hand.

No! YOU were the reason you got harassed!

YOUR actions led to SAS's response. And later, to mine!

We weren’t really sure what to do about it. Should we bring it up? If it was Mod Dude’s platform that got our blogs taken down, maybe we could ask Mod Dude and their followers to email tumblr staff to try and get our blogs back?

No! I first don't think that would have actually done anything. But it wasn't Dude that caused your blogs to get taken down. It was YOU. It was what YOU did. It was YOUR actions.

On one hand, it’d show that Mod Dude was genuine in wanting to change and it could be like an “olive branch” to the pro-endo community,

Helping someone whose actions overwhelmingly harmed the pro-endo community wouldn't be an olive branch to the pro-endo community.

You made these incredibly harmful posts in "#endo safe" tags, not caring that they could be triggering to pro-endos who are browsing safe tags to avoid drama.

and we could apologize for our behavior.

You still don't seem to understand why your behavior was harmful.

Even now, over a year later, you act as if the worst thing you did was just casually tell people to suck your 🐓. And the real problem was actually the people calling you out, whether it was SAS or myself.

You act as if SAS manipulated you because, in response to a post where it was obvious they didn't remember who you were, they seemed vaguely supportive.

We don’t remember all of it, overall they were supportive. But Mod Dude had brought up that they asked the other mods of @/sysmedsaresexist about us, and was told we were the ones who told anti-endos to suck our dick the year prior. Mod Dude expressed his amusement over this, and said they hoped we “haven’t changed”.

They weren't concealing their history with you. They legitimately had no idea who you were.

We reached out to Dude, explained we never intended to contact them again due to the trauma they caused us, and that people are STILL saying we intentionally hurt CSA victims.

YOU DID! You intentionally hurt CSA victims with posts that could be considered sexual harassment! You bragged about not having dissociative symptoms, and told a group that consisted largely of CSA victims that they were only good for sucking 🐓!

You did that!

These are your actions!

Instead of apologizing, Mod Dude used excuses for their actions and why they won’t publicly apologize.

You were the one in the wrong!

They just called you out on your behavior!

YOU AREN'T OWED AN APOLOGY!

Mod Dude has also threatened us, saying they’re “going to come forward” if “things don’t stop” “because enough is enough”. Up until now, we believed that Mod Dude hadn’t acted with malice, but due to lack of medical and personal support, just wasn’t really in a place in their life to healthily interact with others in a serious capacity. Now Mod Dude is employing abuse tactics to threaten us into silence. While this is deeply upsetting to learn that Mod Dude is in fact abusive, it’s also making our trauma around the situation worse. 

"The person I've been attacking nonstop warned that they'll post their side of the story publicly if I keep publicly attacking them. See! They're trying to silence me! This proves that they're an abuser!"

For the love of the gods, GROW UP!

We’ll also talk about how Sophie’s reaction to this is what made us change our views on her, and eventually lead us down the path of making the document about her.

And FINALLY, YOU ADMIT IT! 👏

That this whole document about me being so "dangerous" was born out of nothing more than a petty grudge because I called you out on being ableist and hurting the community.

I look forward to seeing how you spin this in future updates.

If you do, I realize that you won't have access to our DMs since that account no longer exists. 🥳

So here are the screenshots of me politely asking you to step away because you were harming people, where you responded by declaring that you weren't part of our community and telling me to "save my self-righteous act for someone else."

You made it clear to me that you didn't care if your actions hurt other pro-endos. If it hurt my community. Because you didn't want to be a part of that.

You said that it "wasn't your problem" if you triggered other members of the community, despite the fact that YOU WERE THE ONE DOING IT!

And the fact that you say you were trolling for a reaction makes it all the more absurd to demand an apology. You were given exactly what you wanted.

[hestzhyen]

On Fictional (C)SA and Decency

Not putting this on the main tag for Kagurabachi since there are folks who don't want to see this, and I don't want to bother them. I just have something else I want to yeet into the void about this chapter.

I'm avoiding Twitter, reddit, and pretty much everywhere I can right now and I'm still hearing of takes like this:

"Why would you want a trigger warning for this chapter? Do you want trigger warnings for people being killed too now? It was just a word, no descriptions, chill out."

and

"Do you think that's why Hiruhiko got bonded to Kumeyuri and we saw the Oiran spirits, since they were usually sex workers?"

I've put myself in the digital fandom equivalent of a remote arctic bunker and this is my last transmission before I feel like I'm ready to rejoin society. But basically... grow a heart, people.

I'm not putting my sob story out there to the world but please believe me when I say this chapter has caused me to spiral down and close to out twice now even though the English version left the nature of the assault vague. Once when I was translating the chapter and got to Hiruhiko's backstory (which left zero doubts about the type of assault that occurred in Japanese), and again when I tried to protect myself but still ended up being exposed to the topic.

It's not like I can't handle mentions of assault or CSA at all. Nor do I expect glowing trigger warnings wherever I go. But this specific case and the way it was used were awful enough to "trigger" me.

Yeah, that word that gets laughed at... I was triggered.

I don't know what people think of when they hear the word trigger, and I don't know what everyone else's experiences are like. But for me it basically activates the part of my brain that says I need to take myself out before I hurt other people. That I'm a monster who needs to make the world a better place by taking my problems out of it. It happened to me multiple times for a reason, right? Different people did that to me from a little older than Hiruhiko's age on up because I deserved it, right? And so on...

I'm getting help, but I have to wait for about two weeks for the appointment. I have someone with me and I have people I can talk to. I've muted keywords on social media and flat-out decided not to use it other than posting here because Tumblr lets me post without viewing content I don't trust right now. I'm trying to do everything I can but I still got fucking triggered.

So yes, trigger warnings are nice. They're very very helpful for people like me who are trying to protect themselves but need a little heads up.

As to the Oiran comparisons...

This one bothers me less because there's some analysis to be done there by the people who want to look at that and make some guesses about how Hokazono-sensei's mind works. I'd rather not know but to each their own.

I know a lot people aren't making the connection because they think CSA survivor = future whore. They probably just aren't thinking about the implications at all; I get that people are just making connections because sex topic 1 and sex topic 2. And Oiran were often victims too depending on the worker's situation.

Yet there's still a layer of insensitivity that makes me wish I could approach the subject rationally to say hey, maybe don't automatically equate a kid who was sexually assaulted as naturally compatible with the spirits of professional sex workers?

It's just, as a survivor myself... I never ever want to be looked at like that. I do ha ha funny gooner times over fictional men like Azami and Kunishige in my posts, but I'm actually ace IRL. I don't really want to be associated to sex- especially with a different flavour of exploitation. My life's more than being used by other people even if it's part of my past.

Opening up to people is always a gamble because then some of them will ask about the rest of my sex life- did I go into sex work (no), am I promiscuous (no), do I have freaky kinks/fetishes (why would you ask this?!), and so on... the connection is there and it's uncomfortable as fuck. I wish it was made less often (and that some people could be muted in real life). So many stories of abused children bottoming out to become whores start with them being SA'd as a child after all.

This chapter just opened a whole fucking can of worms that easily could have stayed sealed shut. Not only was the rep given harmful (wow another severely damaged and dangerous child rape victim, how original), the correlations to Kumeyuri's Oiran spirits is spurring yet more drivel about how sexually exploited children are linked to sexual promiscuity as adults.

I don't really know how to deal with it all except hope that some people wake up one day with more empathy than they're showing now. I've done what I can to protect myself but it wasn't enough. So into a fortified bunker I go until it's time to check out the next chapter- or most likely a different fandom for the time being.

What else is there to say...? Be kind. Especially if it's a choice to be made.

[obaewankenope]

Note: don't give hate to people who comment on this who don't agree. Like don't bully them, don't call them ableist terms, etc.

Additional note: this mentions suicide, child SA (mentions, nothing graphic), and similar in this dialogue. If you do not want to read or see any mentions or references to such, scroll past this post at speed.

Anyway, conversation with @ blackfliesinbluesugar via replies I'm adding here because I don't think it should remain in the replies since the points I make are ones I feel ought be shared.

.

Blackfliesinbluesugar wrote:

Dude. Whether or not it's legal in the USA to write porn of real actual existing irl children does not affect the fact that that is FUCKED and should not be there

Getting rid of ACTUAL cp is not a slippery slope, it's base level rules on any website

I (obaewankenope) replied:

It's not CP it's CSAM. Pornography implies consent. There is no consent when it comes to children. Fictional characters are not real. AO3 does not allow CSAM. Dog whistle elsewhere.

Blackfliesinbluesugar replied:

Love how you argued phrase usage but didn't tackle the actual point. Alright, CSAM. Now address what i said.

Also, dog whistle for pointing out there is pornography of REAL EXISTING children on ao3? This is a provable fucking fact'

Fictional characters are not real' no shit sherlock I'm talking about irl humans that exist in the real word are you illiterate

I (obaewankenope) replied:

If its there, report it. The mods will remove it, ban/suspend the account and report it to the relevant legal authorities as they are expected to. That's quite literally what they do. Don't throw a tantrum about it and act like it's a Wild West on AO3 when it isn't.

Blackfliesinbluesugar replied:

'Don't throw a tantrum over pornography of real children' is quite a sentiment

This is why i can never call myself a proshipper despite being fine with all kinds of *fiction*, because you people are so terminally fucking online you can't even see the real word and it's severity anymore

I (obaewankenope) replied:

It's not pornography if it's of children because of consent. And not just that, if the material is FICTIONAL CHARACTERS then it's not actually CSAM and you need to recognise that fact. Whether you like it or not.

Also, hilariously. I said "FICTIONAL" not real. You conflate an issue here with a moral standing and presume it to be the Same ignoring nuance regarding the fact that if you see material of Ao3 that has Real Actual Children involved in sexual acts, then you report that. But if the material is of fictional children, aka not real, and also not in breach of CSAM guidelines then it's not illegal. You don't have to like it to let it be. CSAS use fiction to process their own traumas. Just like any other trauma group does. If you don't report survivors of terrorism, abuse in any form, suicide attempts, police brutality and so on, for their material, but do for someone who does not GRAPHICALLY depict CSA and who doesn't use Real Children/Victims, then you have a problem with one thing only: that which you don't personally like. And the thing is, I get that. I don't like seeing material that depicts sexual abuse, or abuse in general. But I have written of it in the past to help myself process things. It is not a crime to do so, and it isn't a crime to engage with such material if it isn't for sexual gratification or glorification of suffering. And that's the key thing. If you see material that glorifies CSA or gratifies a perpetrator of it, then you report it to Ao3 and they will do something about it. Because that is not okay. Fictional characters do not constitute CSAM however, and that has been stated by LAW ENFORCEMENT ITSELF. Whether you agree with that is your choice. But you can block the tags, report the ones who are in breach of Ao3 guidelines and US Law on CSAM and move the heck on. I don't report every incest fic I come across even if I think incest is a morally wrong thing. Because I recognise that the material wasn't written for me, isn't relevant to me, and doesn't breach the guidelines of Ao3 or US Law (as Ao3 servers are located in the US and thus subject to US law).

As far as I can tell, I have the order of replies from us both accurate here. I might not but my hands are jittering rn from adhd meds so typing is becoming a bit of a chore. I need to do a jig or sth in a minute or three.

Hey

Hey

Psst!

I have something to tell you!

Come closer

Let me whisper it to you

Because I forgot my Loud Setting at home

H e y

Hey

Here's what I'm gonna say:

AO3 IS FINE HOW IT IS! STOP TRYING TO CENSOR A WEBSITE THAT ADHERES TO U.S. LAW ON CSAM BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE MORALS OF A 70s HOUSEWIFE OR NED'S WIFE FROM THE SIMPSONS!

Okay?

That's all.

Bye now