#how can i talk about madara without talking about hashirama

[skyahri]

Get Over it |Madara Uchiha X Reader| HC

Summary: You're the Hokage's assistant just trying to do your job.

Warning: Fem pronouns. Madara is an asshole.

Masterlist Ko-fi

- - - - -

Hashirama was definitely behind you and Madara meeting.

Anytime he needed something delivered to the Uchiha compound, he sent you- his cute little assistant.

Despite the fact that Madara was at the Hokage's office almost daily, you still found yourself making a trip to the compound every evening.

Madara was always rude, asking you why you were bothering him despite already knowing. He'd have you leave whatever it is was you had brought on his desk and shoo you away.

Today, he was a little moodier than usual. Maybe he was having a bad day, maybe he was just fed up with you, who knows.

When you knocked on his office door and slid in, he immediately started yelling.

"Must you bother me every day, woman?"

"It's Hokage's orders, Madara-sama."

"Then ignore them. I'm tired of you interrupting me every day."

"I'm afraid I cannot-"

"You can and will. I am Madara Uchiha, head of the Uchiha clan and I order you to-"

"Well, Mr. Madara Uchiha, head of the Uchiha clan, I don't answer to you. I'm afraid you'll just have to take it up with Hashirama or get over it."

And with that you left his office, shutting the door a bit harder behind you than you usually would.

To say Madara was stunned would be an understatement.

Was he just belittled by a civilian woman?

He wouldn't stand for this.

So he immediately made his way to the Hokage building to confront his dear friend about his unruly assistant.

Hashirama just laughed at him, and that made Madara all the more sour.

"Keep your people in check, Hashirama."

"Why? Are you threatened by her? Can't handle being yelled at?"

He stormed out after Tobirama started snickering at him.

The next day, he anxiously waited for your arrival. He'd been stewing over your encounter from the previous day and it wss fueling the fire in his belly.

So when he heard your usual knocks, he stood up and made himself as big as possible, like a bear.

You walked in, unphased by his damming aura, handed him a single scroll, and turned to leave.

He moved in front of the door to stop you from leaving, not satisfied by how this encounter was going.

"You will speak to me with respect from now on. I do not tolerate such behavior."

"Yeah, I still don't answer to you. My job is to be amicable, not a kiss ass. So again, take it up with Hashirama, or get over it."

You put your hand on his arm and gently moved him out of the way of the door. He allowed this, for whatever reason, and just watched as you made your way out.

Now you'd definitely caught his interest.

It's not that he liked being talked down to, it that he loved being challenged.

For the next few weeks, he allowed you to do your job without issue. He'd just stare at you as you came in, delivered whatever stupid thing Hashirma had sent, and left.

That is until today, when you had shown up several hours later than usual. It was dark out, and you were visibly tired.

"You're late."

"My apologies, Madara-sama. It was busier than usual today."

You handed him the envelope and turned to leave, ready to finally be done with the day.

You noticed Madara get up and move alongside you, but didn't pay much mind. It was entirely possible he was just making his way home as well.

Until you'd arrived at the gates of the compound, he was still at your side.

"What are you doing?"

"I'm escorting you home."

"Um, okay? May I ask why?"

"Hashirama is a fool for allowing you to wonder the village at night unaccompanied. I feel I must make up for his stupidity and ensure you get home safely."

You just nodded. It was honestly a relief.

The office had been overwhelmed today because of rogue shinobi reports in the area. Having Madara with you basically guaranteed you'd have a safe trip, so you didn't argue with him any further.

The next few days went similarly.

A cluster of reports and actual captured rogues had kept you up to your neck with work until odd hours of the night.

After the first few instances of you showing up late, Madara had taken it upon himself to meet you at the Hokage's tower. You were thankful, with for the relief from walking all the way to the compound and also to have your own personal guard.

He kept doing this even after things had settled down, and before he knew it, he'd grown quite fond of your presence.

Your nightly walks had turned more casual and became more frequent outside of your working hours.

Over time he'd opened up to you and that's when the relationship really blossomed.

He was torn between his traditional values and his aversion to emotions, but eventually, he caved and asked to court you.

Obviously, you said yes, and so started the beginning of a lifelong relationship with the unlikely man.

[indras-wife]

I can request madara, Izuna and also Itachi and shisui are in love with a member of the uzumaki clan of an incomparable beauty with amazing red hair and very intense blue eyes, she is a very tall woman with a curvy body, with well-worked thighs an inhuman flexibility, she has the nickname red oni for her combat prowess, I am a fan of the pairing of both clans I also like otsutsuki

Itachi and Shisui are making their debut in my blog! Hope I did a good job at presenting these two<3<3<3 Let me know if you want more cute requests like this anon. Enjoy reading<3<3

༊*·˚Characters mentioned: Madara Uchiha, Izuna Uchiha, Itachi Uchiha, Shisui Uchiha ༊*·˚

Madara

He has heard the nickname "Red Oni" from his soldiers for a long time, which made his curiosity grow. He wanted to meet that man and have a fight with him. After all nothing excites him more than a good fight.

His surprise was immense when he found out that Red Oni was not a man...but a woman instead. And a very pretty one to add. Her long red hair symbolized her nickname perfectly. Madara did not like Uzumakis, but this time he eager to learn more about her.

He could tell she was a wise and powerful woman, her speech carried drops of wisdom and class, something that Madara loves in woman.

"How about we have a friendly fight?" his suggestion was thrilling for both of them and of course they both agreed. Both shinobis loved a good fight and no way would they skip such an opportunity which comes maybe once in a lifetime.

Their fight was long and tiring, with neither of them wanting to give up. Madara could not help but notice how agile her movements were and how many strong techniques she had. For him it was a relatively new thing to see woman being able to fight with him so long.

In the end, Hashirama and Mito were the ones who seperated them because both did not want to give up. Talk about being hard headed.

The more they talked, the more Madara fell in love with her, without even realising. He knew that he wanted his wife to be strong and able to protect herself, and his Uzumaki friend was a perfect candidate for his wife. Of course he took his time and invited her to many dates before asking her hand in marriage.

Izuna

Izuna, being the cinnamon roll he is, was actually very surprised when he met the Uzumaki woman. He would not admit it loud, but he loved how her hair was red and long, and it corresponded to her nickname perfectly. He found it too cute even.

In the battlefield, he would always catch himself get mesmerised by her and her moves, how fast and strong she was. Women usually were not allowed to participate in wars, but she was strong and Izuna felt sort of proud. She was breaking the traditions after all and setting an example for other strong women.

When they were able to sign a peace treaty with the Uzumakis and Senjus, Izuna was roaming around, trying to find a way to talk with her. She was looking more beautiful than ever and he was eager to strike some conversation with her.

Luckily for him, she also wanted to talk with. Not noticing Izuna in the battlefield is impossible due to his swift attacks and handsome features. They both were able to share some things between them, not noticing how time flew by.

Izuna would later on make unannounced visits to her new house in the village. The Uzumaki beauty didn't mind because deep in her heart she wanted to see him as often as possible. Villagers, seeing them together could not help but ship them, saying how adorable and matching they are. Both are like oceans, calm but dangerous when needed.

Their dates were mostly planned by Izuna. He loved making her feel special and would gift her various gifts to bring a smile to her face. A handmade thing to an expensive jewellry: Izuna was doing it all to show her his feelings.

Their interactions went on for a year, with now even their families asking what the future steps are for them. Izuna knew he made all the right choices that would secure a yes from her. The ring he also ordered was ready and there was nothing holding him back.

His proposal, which he planned very long for, was a success as he was now officially engaged to her and few months later would be their wedding. A wedding that maybe the whole village was waiting for.

Shisui

Now for this guy, the first thing that caught his eye as the red hair. Shisui is the type of person who loves seeing rare features and the red hair is definitely something new for him.

He later on learns about her clan, and their special abilities. Shisui is the type of man who is intrigued by new knowledge and he spends some time learning about the clan before talking with her.

He approaches her casually, striking a conversation and throwing few compliments here and there. Later on he makes it into a habit to compliment her hair and skills.

He is of course intrigued by her famous combat skills, but he isn't looking forward to seeing her fight or being in combat with her. The reason is, Shisui is a "gentleman" and he does not want to fight with a woman just to make sure she has good abilities. Instead, he fully believes her and always points out her strength to his friends and comrades.

His gentle nature makes the Uzumaki woman fall in love with him slowly. Shisui liked her already, but he wanted to take things slow and give her time to fall in love with him. He would not be angry if she didnt return his feelings, but he is VERY happy they share the same feelings for each other.

He would organise very cute dates for them. Picnic, stargazing, shopping dates, maybe even simple walking in the forest or flower fields. He wold gather beautiful flowers and gift them to her. Even if they are not in the flower field, where he can get the flowers himself, he will at least buy a beautiful bouquet for each date.

He makes sure to show his love and appreciation for her every chance he gets, which makes him more attractive in her eyes.

Itachi

As a history nerd, Itachi knows the Uzumaki clan and he is sort of surprised that there are still members of the clan as they have been massacred.

For this man, he does not have the courage to approach and talk with her. Itachi likes following her through shadows, learning more about her that way. It helps him evade any heartbreak he may encounter.

Little did he know, the Uzumaki woman knew about him following her long ago. She kept playing his game, waiting patiently when he will stop. Of course he didnt and she had to take matters into her own hand. During on of his regular following sessions, she took him by surprises with appearing behind him. "Isn't it time for you to talk to me instead of stalking me?"

Itachi was embarrassed of course, but he liked how fast she was and how she was aware of him stalking her all this time. Their first conversation would lead to a beautiful romance blooming between them.

They LOVE training together. As representatives of powerful clans and both having great techniques, it was easy to practice their skills together. They both helped each other to become stronger, with their feelings growing along their powers.

They were spending so much time together that their friends and some family members would tease them every time they had to leave the house. "Going to meet the mysterious Uchiha?" or "On your way to meet the red haired Oni?" comments were now asked by their families on daily basis. They could not debunk those questions of course, so they both would just silently leave the house.

Only after years of "friendship" would these two start dating. And the person who would confess their feelings first would definitely not be Itachi. Despite this, he was more than glad to get the chance to be romantic with the red haired beauty and he immediately asked her on a formal date.

Cute dates and meaningful conversations would accompany both of them everyday, turning their relationship more like a very deep spiritual connection, which they both enjoyed.

[twomiddlefingersforthehaters]

yo recently I heard that Naruto is the one who said "Usuratonkachi" to Sasuke first when they were little in school.

I assume this was added later on in the story, but if Naruto basically coined it first and Sasuke picked it up later, that would add extra cuteness to their bond

but since you can read the original jp script for the manga, I figured you might be able to check on the validity of that in the manga.

I don't quite know if it's filler for the anime or not~

thanks and sorry for taking up your time

It was in ch. 538 I've already talked about it here , here , and here

In the anime it was in ep. 277

On the first day they fought at the academy, the words Naruto said to him, ``Usuratonkachi''... maybe those words had a surprisingly strong impact on Sasuke. To begin with, Sasuke has nothing to do with the image of "Usuratonkachi". All the time the fans screamed "Sasuke is so cool/Sasuke is so awesome", Naruto was the first person to call Sasuke "usuratonkachi" and directly swears at him. He listened intently to the nonsense Naruto spewed out and began to make it his own.[it shows that Sasuke remembered that encounter very well]. We all know how Sasuke observed Naruto since childhood and he started thinking/worrying about him a lot.

During their first encounter, Naruto provoked Sasuke by saying "Usuratonkachi". Their match ended when Sasuke pushed Naruto down and raised his fist.

And without making any sign of reconciliation with each other.

Sasuke left the village, and Naruto, who chases him desperately finally catches up with him in the Valley of the End. The two of them standing face to face in the Valley of the End... And Sasuke greets Naruto with "usuratonkachi"

When Naruto says that the others are risking their lives for him...Sasuke sarcastically said, "What a (pointless) effort" or "you're working so hard for nothing." It provoked Naruto, and made him jump at him and raise his fist... and hit him. (This is the opposite of what happened on their first meeting)

What's really interesting is that the place they chose to part ways was on top of a stone statue of Madara and Hashirama with the "Seal of Confrontation". Sasuke &Naruto only did the "Seal of Confrontation", but what they really wanted was:

Because of their ego's they couldn't do the sign before. They always wanted to be friends, even if they couldn't admit it out loud. Both admired and liked each other. But they couldn't accept and come to terms with how they felt inside.

He couldn't kill Naruto….he even got chances to do that… but it was something he couldn't do. After the Vote 1 fight, Sasuke had to sealed the word ``Usuratonkachi'' for a long time. Because, over the time "Usuratonkachi'' gradually became a word that acknowledge the existence of Naruto. And the word completely acknowledging "Naruto's competitive nature''

As for Vote 2, I've talked about it here and here

A long time ago, Naruto gave Sasuke the Usuratonkachi as a ``Sign of Confrontation,'' but Sasuke gave it back to Naruto as a ``Sign of Reconciliation". This final battle between Naruto and Sasuke is also a battle in which Sasuke accepts and acknowledges his own weakness (his desire to connect with Naruto).

[hauntedhokage]

hi hi! Could I please request hcs for your first time with the Konoha founders (Madara,Hashirama, tobirama?) tyia!!

hi, you certainly can! I totally got carried away with these but i had a lot of fun ~

warnings: written with female reader in mind, sexual content, mentions of potential pregnancy, cock warming,

Madara Uchiha

Madara isn't one for letting people get close, so to be at the point with him where not only you were regularly kissing and close enough that he's asking to go further says a lot.

He basically loves you at this point, even if he hasn't said as much out loud and the question of whether you'll let him go further requires no deeper consideration to have you nodding in the affirmative in the moonlit forest clearing

He's careful as he undresses you, gentle hands pulling at the various ties and buttons keeping your clothing together, his eyes staying on yours to ensure that you remain comfortable under his hands as he moves. It's only when you're undressed that he notices that he's still fully clothed, and sits back to give you the opportunity to see him as he'd gotten to see you.

He's very bashful as you undress him, which is truly out of character for the normally (mostly) collected man - unless he was with you. Madara was still strong and confident, but something in the way you specifically looked at him made him feel that way. It's the love but don't tell him that or else he'll blush

His hands are gentle as they explore your body without the layer of clothing keeping you from him, warm as they hold your breasts while he kisses you.

"Every bit of you is perfection, my dear," he'll compliment as he lies you back, kissing you one last time before he moves to explore the rest of your body with his mouth, gradually getting more comfortable with how you like to be touched.

He's nervous at first, but he is very generous when it comes to oral. He could probably be between your legs like this for hours, since he thoroughly enjoys how sweet you taste to him and the sounds you make for him and him alone while he's licking at your most sensitive spot.

The nerves return when he's sitting up in front of you again, cock in hand and lined up with your entrance. All he has to do is gently push forward, you've already begged asked him to take you finally, but he finds himself pausing as his tip is just barely pressing against your folds. But then he reaches for your hand, and holds it tight in his own as he finally urges forward to work himself into you.

He's painfully careful as he makes love to you, desperate to maintain his self control so he can avoid causing you any pain. Each thrust is calculated and careful, and his eyes stay on yours to make sure that he's actually making you feel good.

When he comes it's inside you mostly by accident, you'd made him feel so good that he wasn't thinking about arguably the most important detail. He hopes you're not upset, but he wouldn't be upset by having his heir conceived in such a setting. If you're not upset, he's able to relax in the grass beside you and pull you close, peppering kisses to your head as the cool night air blows over you both.

Eventually you'd both need to get up and get dressed before someone found you so exposed, but for now he's content to lay there and mumble sweet nothings back and forth.

Hashirama Senju

Oh, Hashirama is a nervous wreck over this. This was a moment he'd been waiting a while for and now it was here and you were sitting naked in front of him as planned and it was almost too much.

He's so worried about whether or not you actually want to have sex with him, if you'll like how he looks? Is his penis the right size? What even was the "right size"? These weren't things he talked about with Madara or his brother, so he feels under prepared for something so important.

Please kiss this man to pull him out of his head, otherwise you'd be sitting there naked all night while he overthinks.

His hands are shaky as he undresses, so giving him a helping hand will help him feel a lot better (and keep him from accidentally tearing something and feeling the need to explain how to the tailor when getting it repaired). Kisses to his chest and stomach as more skin is revealed, keeping your eyes on his as you do to help reassure him that you want to be here as much as he does.

"Relax, Hashirama," you request, taking his hands in his and gently peppering kisses along his knuckles to try and help him relax. "We don't have to if you don't think-" "I WANT TO TAKE THIS STEP WITH YOU!"

He's already hard, cock aching at the sight of your body and feel of your warm skin on his hands. When you bring one of his hands down to your already wet center, he's suddenly much more relaxed as he realizes that you want this too.

His fingers are eager to explore, spreading and stretching you open like he knows he'll need to while indulging in the sweet sounds you make as he pleasures you. He's not intending on making you come, so he's actually surprised when you do just by his fingers.

And when he gets to lay you back, his hand holds yours as he guides himself in. He could come from the sight of your face, contorted in pleasure as he stretched you, but he knows that he couldn't possibly cut this experience short for you.

But as enamored as he is by your face, he can't help but sit back so he can watch himself go in and out of you. There's something hypnotizing about watching his cock disappear inside you, he could sit there and watch forever.

But all things come to end eventually, and when he meets his end it's with his face pressed into your neck, profusely thanking you for providing him with the honor of this intimacy and telling you how much he loved you.

Tobirama Senju

The only one out of this trio that isn't at all nervous. Not at all understating the importance of the first time he's being intimate with you in that way, but it's a natural human occurrence and if you didn't want to take that step with him you wouldn't have let him move his hands further up your skirt. Nor would you have said "yes" when he asked if that was okay.

His kisses are confident as you sit on his lap, one of his hands resting on your thigh under your skirt while the other holds the back of your neck. Every so often he'll give your thigh a squeeze, moving his hand just a bit closer until his fingertips are brushing against the fabric of your underwear.

"Eager, are we?" you tease against his lips, gently nipping at his bottom lip and grinning when he lets out a soft groan. "I'm eager, too."

"You look so pretty on my lap like this, how can I not be?" his counter is accompanied by his fingers hooking into the band of your underwear, gently tugging at them so he could pull them down your legs. He doesn't let them hit the floor, instead pocketing them to keep them clean.

He takes a moment to wet his fingers before his hand goes back up your skirt, pushing your legs apart so he can spread your folds. The contact has your mouth falling open, your head falling against his shoulder as he spreads your wetness that had gathered to your clit.

You hold tight to his shirt as he fingers you; the long, slender digits taking their time in exploring your pussy, his thumb maintaining a constant pressure on your clit. It's when he feels your walls start to tighten around his fingers that he starts to rub small circles around your clit while maintaining that same wonderful pressure.

"Please come for me, my dear, I need you to be ready for me," he requests, his own mouth trailing kisses along your face and neck. Based on your pleasured whimpers and tight grip on his shoulder, he knows you're about to topple over that edge, and he's smiling as he feels your clenching around his three fingers. "That's it, you're so pretty when you're coming on my fingers."

Your skirt and his pants were going to be a mess, but that's not a concern for either of you as he's pulling his cock out of his pants. He's already so hard, and you gently take hold of him as he helps you adjust so you're straddling him on his chair and hovering just above his length.

There's a moment of hesitation, those red eyes meeting yours with a question in them that only you have the answer to. And your answer is given by carefully lowering yourself onto him, keeping your gaze locked on his until you're fully seated on his length.

With his hands on your hips and your hands settled on his shoulders, you both work together to set an easy pace. His goal is to make sure you feel and enjoy every inch of him as he helps you move, and he can tell by the way your walls are fluttering around him that you are very much enjoying what he's giving you.

He's a relatively quiet lover, the sounds that leave him are mostly quiet grunts and maybe a soft groan but nothing too loud. However, he wants you to be as loud as you want to be - let the whole village know that you were quite happily spoken for and well looked after.

His hand will leave your hip in favor of seeking out your clit, wanting to make sure that you find your release before he does. His fingers work against the sensitive bud rapidly, all while urging you to show him how pretty you are when you're coming for him.

And when you do come, your walls clenching rhythmically around his length, he's kissing you to muffle his groan as his hands keep you firmly planted on his lap as he finishes inside you.

He'll lean back in the chair, bringing you to relax in his arms as he works to regulate his breathing once more. Gentle kisses are peppered into your hair and his hands rub your back as he lets himself enjoy this moment with you.

[senjuhashirama]

THE NUANCE OF HASHIRAMA’S UNFAMOUS QUOTE

After Hashirama wins a fight with Madara at the Valley of the End and subsequently impales Madara with a sword, Hashirama says to him:

Hashirama is saying this memorable quote to a dying Madara as if he was trying to justify his decision to kill Madara not only to Madara but also to himself. He’s reminding Madara that he will choose Konoha over anything else (including Madara) no matter what. He’s firm and assured with his decision. However, he’s not sure if it’s the right decision and he perceives his action as desperate. In other words, He feels like he had no other option, and he feels similarly to a rat being forced into a corner. He can only jump at his enemy or he (and everything he worked for) dies. He blames Madara for him having to face this hard situation. He doesn’t feel like he‘s won, there’s no movement in his face to suggest that, he’s angry at best for being cornered. Rather than that, he feels like he’s lost together with Madara.

However, this quote alone without context (as it’s usually thrown around) doesn’t tell us the whole story of Hashirama’s point of view that was shaped by his upbringing, experiences and dire situation.

When Hashirama says he would kill his child if the child was a threat Konoha, He doesn’t talk about a literal six years old child who came with a wooden sword. And he doesn’t talk about an adult child he could easily overpower and deal with them verbally. Instead, he talks about an offspring that would be at least on Hashirama’s level of power who would try to destroy Konoha and everyone in it, including babies and families. To put it more simply, it‘s not about only protecting Konoha as a political system but about actual people living there who wouldn’t stand a chance against said offspring and would eventually die if the offspring wasn’t stopped. Considering all previous points, Hashirama wouldn’t kill his offspring as a form of punishment, but out of necessity and out of desperation. This is also how he feels about killing Madara – he doesn’t want to punish Madara.

However, Hashirama doesn’t just think about it, he also says it aloud, which can give sort of dark or even cold vibes. But to understand this, we need to look at the way Hashirama was raised. He was born in a midst of wars where death was so prevalent that he becomes a little obsessed about it. His two brothers died, and we can assume that many of his friends and comrades also died. For Hashirama, death is a normalised, sad part of life and it’s not a taboo as it is later in the series. He is capable of talking about it and it, without a question, taught him to be compassionate.  

To Hashirama, death is not a punishment, but the last resort.   

Similarly, in Hashirama’s flashback, we can see where his struggles with parent/child relationships come from. His father was authoritative and abusive, which means that Hashirama was never shown a proper parent/child relationship. He struggled as a child and he probably automatically presumes he will struggle as a parent (on the other side) too. We don’t know how Hashirama was as a father and I don’t personally believe he was anything like Butsuma, but his traumatic experience with his own father probably shaped Hashirama’s view of familiar relationships. That’s why it was so easy for him to say aloud that he would kill his own offspring if they threatened Konoha. Hashirama’s feelings about family are more numb and lacking because of the abuse he has suffered. Because of that, he will never see father/son relationship as only good and loving as that’s not what he knows. Hashirama’s statement is rather dark and it lacks nurturing (that is prevalent in healthy family relationships), just as his adolescence.

Despite this, Hashirama isn’t sure if his decisions he made for Konoha were right. Madara himself warns him that his vision will bring darkness upon Konoha. Hashirama has regrets and doesn’t fully justify his decision as being right.

That said, Hashirama‘s statement to Madara about killing a family member and his regrets aren’t supposed to show him as a bad person. Instead, they humanise him and they make him seem like an individual rather than an ideal.

On the contrary, Hashirama‘s „heroic sacrifice“ (killing an enemy who was a friend) isn’t supposed to show him as a good person. He’s not just good and flawless or simply bad. He’s not just a cartoonishly evil character and neither he’s a funny and innocent himbo. He’s a nuanced character with flaws, not just an aspirational hero whose hands are clean.

[luchicm04]

Pride

Masterlist

Summary: When hatred and pride speak louder, even a childhood love can fall apart.

Pairing: Senju Tobirama/Fem!Uchiha, Uchiha Madara/Fem!Uchiha

Word count: 2.6k

Overall warnings: angst, bittersweet ending

All characters belong to Naruto, and all rights are reserved to the original work whose author allowed me to translate it.

A/N: The lyrics come from this song. Whoever cried, raise your hand. Please, leave your opinions and criticism in the comments.

posted on ao3

I was there, standing on top of that mountain where I could see the sunset that covered the village below with golden light. After so many battles, Konoha finally flourished in peace. 

Peace that hadn’t existed in my heart for a long time since I met her: Alexia. 

──

In the heart of the war between Senju and Uchiha, in the small moments when there was a truce, I, Tobirama, youngest son of the general of the Senju clan liked to get away from all that suffering for a while. During the day, I found a way to escape to the river, just to be able to see and hear the current that followed its path without caring about what happened on its banks. It just flowed.  

And it was there, on one of those days, that I saw a little paper boat with a yellow flower inside going down through the crystal-clear water, and then one more and another. Like the curious child that I was, I went up the river in the opposite direction of the boats, until I saw her.  

A little girl with long, black hair messed up by the wind. She was kneeling on the riverbank and placing paper boats with colorful flowers in the water one by one, while her black eyes watched them move away. Until her eyes fell on me, and we stood staring without saying anything on either side of the river. Then, she got up, smiled at me and disappeared into the forest.  

──

Without realizing it, a soft smile curved my lips as I remembered that day. How the silent meeting of two children could change so much. 

──

After that meeting, I went to the river more often, wanting to see her again. But it was weeks before I saw the little boats go down the current once again. I found her in the same place and this time, I walked over and crouched down next to her.  

“Why do you do it?” I asked.  

She looked at me with those dark orbs, smiled and responded as if it were the simplest thing in the world.  

“Because I think it’s beautiful.”  

I saw her pick up another little boat with a red flower and place it in my hand. I quickly put it in the water and saw it go away down the river. I smiled without realizing it.  

“See? It’s so pretty,” she said and looked at me again. “I’m Alexia. And you?”  

“Tobirama,” I replied, hiding my surname, because during the war it wasn’t wise to say it to strangers and apparently, she knew that as she didn’t say hers either.  

We stayed there talking for hours, without ever saying where we came from, until I heard my brother Hashirama calling me from inside the forest. I went home but not before making her promise that we would see each other again, right there.  

The months passed and as the war worsened, our meetings began to become rarer, until she never appeared again.  

──

I felt a lonely tear run down my face. Even though we were just children, the loss of my first love hurt a lot. 

But I moved on with my life, and during the following years, thanks to the war, I didn’t have much time to rummage through the past. Until... 

──

Until, at the peak of my 21 st year, I became the second-best ninja in my clan, second only to my older brother.  

Even though the years passed, and I became a man, I still had the childhood habit of going to the river.  

That day, I bent down to wash my face in the cool water, and I felt my heart speed up when I saw a little paper boat with a pink flower touch my hand.  

I ran as fast as I could, going upstream and I saw her... she was there and looked at me as if she was waiting for me.  

Her black hair, now longer, swayed in the breeze. Her body, that was once small and thin, had become beautiful and curvy. She was a woman now, but her eyes, oh those dark eyes, were still the same ones that haunted my memories.  

I approached, and the only thing I could say was her name.  

“Alexia...”  

Without knowing why, or without caring if I was going to be rejected, I kissed her. That old childhood love turned into an urgent desire to erase all that longing that I had stored deep within my being. Alexia responded to me with passion. She seemed to feel the same thing as me, and she wanted to make up for all the lost time.  

We pulled away from each other with difficulty, but the feeling of being complete surrounded us like a golden aura. We didn’t need to say anything to know that time hadn’t changed the feelings of the two children.  

We talked and kissed for hours on end, until we heard sounds coming from the forest, and before I knew it, she broke away from my embrace, looking me in the eyes and said:  

“Tobirama, I need to tell you something very important.” Her face became serious. “Meet me here tomorrow night. Please don’t miss it.”  

I nodded and let her go.  

I didn’t know that conversation would change my entire life.  

──

The night of our meeting had arrived. I managed to leave without being seen by my brother and went towards the agreed location. My hands were sweating, and my heart was racing with every step I took. I thought what I felt years ago was a child’s thing, but the closer I got, the more I knew I was madly in love with that woman. When I arrived, she was already there waiting for me, her gaze fixed on the waters of the river. She seemed sad and that made me worried.  

“Alexia, are you alright?” I asked and without waiting for an answer, I hugged her.  

Feeling her warm body pressed against mine, the kiss was inevitable. It started out soft, but when she opened the way for our tongues to mee, I could no longer resist. We made love right there, on the riverbank, listening to the water run and taking our secret with it.  

Leaning on my body, I heard her soft cry and little by little, hot tears touched my chest, making me look at her.  

“What happened? Did I hurt you?” I said with concern.  

“That’s not it,” she got up and started to dress up. “This shouldn’t have happened. Not without telling you first.”  

“Telling me what?” I started to worry even more, seeing her crying.  

“I know who you are, Tobirama Senju,” she whispered between tears, emphasizing the word ‘senju’. “And I... I am... Alexia Uchiha.”  

My heart almost stopped when I heard her say her full name. It couldn’t be true. It couldn’t... the girl I loved since I was a child, the girl I loved there, on the riverbank, was from that damn clan that had been at war with my family and friends for years. I looked at that familiar and now strange face for several moments, until she broke the deadly silence that hung on us.  

“I wanted to tell you sooner, but I was afraid,” she took a step towards me. “Say something, Tobirama.”  

“Alexia... Uchiha...” I could only repeat her name, still not believing that joke of fate.  

She got closer to me, and with her trembling hand she tried to touch me, but my body involuntarily took a step back, avoiding the contact.  

“Please, say something,” her voice was already starting to get exasperated with my silence. “Say that this doesn’t change anything. Say that you love me. Say that everything will be alright. Just say... say it and I will wait for you.”  

But I didn’t say it. Even though my heart was screaming like crazy inside my chest, I didn’t say the words that she wanted to hear. I couldn’t.  

I caught a glimpse of her beautiful eyes fading with the tears that came flooding back before she left.  

──

When I found out who that little boy was in the river, I knew I had to stay away for my safety and his. However, the war helped me maintain my decision. I was sent to another village along with other women and children who could not fight. But fate found a way to bring us together again many years later. I wanted to see him, see how he grew up and try to make possible that childish love that I always carried in my chest, despite the situation.  

An Uchiha and a Sunju. It seemed like a joke, but I didn’t care. I wanted to fight for that feeling.  

But...  

But my hope faded that night, after we made love. He ran away from my touch like running away from a venomous snake when he learned the truth. I saw the hurt in his eyes, and anger. I was willing to face everything and everyone for us, I just needed to hear him say it. But the words didn’t come.  

──

After that fateful night, I still hadn’t given up on us. Maybe he just needed some time to put his thoughts in order, maybe there was still hope. But I was wrong.  

Every day that followed, I went to the riverbank and one by one, I placed the little paper boats with flowers in the current and watched them slowly descend into the clear waters, waiting to hear his footsteps on the gravel. The long-awaited steps never came.  

And every time, I cried. But this time, I held back the tears and noticed that someone placed a coat over my shoulders and spoke to me in a soft voice.  

“Alexia, what are you doing here?” he said in a worried smile. “It’s getting cold. Let’s go before you get sick."  

I looked at him as I stood up. His long, black hair was tousled because of the wind, which I didn’t even realize was blowing strongly, and his dark eyes, so similar to mine, stood out from the strong, beautiful face that smiled at me. Madara Uchiha, the new leader of the clan. I had known him for a long time, but only at that moment did I really pay attention to him. I took one last look at the waters of the river and followed him back home.  

──

That image of Alexia waiting for me, words I didn’t say and the sadness in her eyes, the plea in her voice haunted my thoughts.  

Every day I went to the river, and I saw, day after day, the little paper boats going down the river. I knew they were for me, that she was waiting for me just behind that curve. But my pride prevented me from going there and taking her in my arms and never letting her go.  

Another little boat came down and came closer to my feet, and before I could pick it up, it sank and dissolved in the water. I didn’t know why, but that image made me cry. Nevertheless, I still didn’t go after her.  

──

A year has passed since that day, and there have never been any paper boats for me on the river again. 

Same bed, but it feels just a little bit bigger now

Our song on the radio, but it don’t sound the same

When our friends talk about you, all it does is just tear me down

‘Cause my heart breaks a little when I hear your name

It all just sounds like ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

And as the world loves to play tricks, that same year the battle between the Senju and Uchiha clans ended, beginning an alliance that led to the founding of Konoha. If I had said something, if I had waited... 

Mm, too young, too foolish to realize

That I should have bought you flowers and held your hand

Should have gave you all my hours when I had the chance

Take you to every party ‘cause all you wanted to do was dance

Now my baby’s dancing, but she’s dancing with another man

But I hadn’t said anything, I hadn’t waited, and I lost her. Now, we live in the same village, our families are no longer enemies and there is no more war. But it’s too late for us. 

My pride, my ego, my needs, and my selfish ways

Caused a good strong woman like you to walk out of my life

Now I never, never get to clean up the mess I made, oh

And that haunts me every time I close my eyes

It all just sounds like ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

I see her almost every day, but her eyes don’t look at me anymore and her smile doesn’t shine for me. Now, another man holds her hand, another man is the owner of her look and the reason for her smile. 

Mm, too young, too foolish to realize

That I should have bought you flowers and held your hand

Should have gave you all my hours when I had the chance

Take you to every party ‘cause all you wanted to do was dance

Now my baby’s dancing, but she’s dancing with another man

Although it hurts

I’ll be the first to say that I was wrong

Oh, I knw I’m probably much too late

To try and apologize for my mistakes

But I just want you to know

I could see him day after day gluing together, piece by piece, Alexia’s heart, which I broke. Healing her wings, which I hurt, and giving her the love that, out of pride, I couldn’t give. 

I hope he buys you flowers, I hope he holds you hand

Give you all his hours when he has the chance

Take you to every party

‘Cause I remember how much you loved t dance

Do all the things I would have done

When I was your man

And today, I’m here, at the top of this mountain. Down there, I can hear the happy laughter and the music that rose up to me. 

It was Alexia’s wedding, my Alexia... I lost her the moment I was too weak to say I loved her. 

My life ended there, on the edge of that river. Those waters witnessed who foolish I was, how my hatred and my pride took from me the woman I loved my entire life. 

The sun had already set on the horizon and the stars were beginning to emerge in the dark blue sky. That was when I noticed someone approaching, a servant, who handed something into my hand that made my heart skip a beat. 

It was a paper boat with a white flower. My eyes clouded with the threat of tears, until I saw that there seemed to be something written on the paper. I unfolded the little boat and read the words that seemed a little shaky. 

‘Tobirama,  

I want you to know that despite what happened between us, I have no regrets. On the contrary, you will always be in my heart, as my first love. It’s a shame that it’s too late for both of us, but I wish from the bottom of my soul that you find someone, and that you don’t let your pride speak louder than your love again. Be happy.  

Alexia.’ 

As I read that, my fists clenched the paper tightly and the little flower fell apart on the floor. And I couldn’t hold it back any longer. I fell on the ground and cried, cried until my eyes had no more tears to cry. 

I cried for the lost love. I cried for the future without Alexia. I cried for the regret of not having said the words she expected to hear. And I cried even more for having my heart in pieces while my pride remained whole. 

[theheirofthesharingan]

You know, I think a lot of hate and misunderstanding towards Itachi comes from the fact that he is designed like he is 30 or 20-something by the time of the massacre. Pleople would empathize with him more if he looked like the child he was. In some flashbacks he looks and sounds more like Sasuke's father than his big brother. He is expected to act perfectly and to take the best decisions in all that involved Sasuke, as if he was the responsible grown-up in charge, and not just another child.

Yes, that's also a major reason. The first time he was introduced, he looked like a 16-17 year old to me, and in all the flashbacks he looks more or less the same. I don't relate to the sentiment of anyone hating him for this, though, or thinking he wasn't a child when it's been repeatedly told to us, but I guess usually it's not so for everyone.

I read somewhere that the reason he looks older than he is, is because of Sasuke's perception of him. Kishimoto draws him with more nuance, and he does look like a child in manga.

When, for the first time we see him as a child in Sasuke's flashbacks in manga, he looks like a 12 year old. He's very similar to how Sasuke would look without the marks on his face. Anime messed up giving him an adult voice and the similar appearance. Boruto does a better job at portraying him as a child in appearance and voice.

And, yes! Itachi having to act like an adult could have been explored with his Boruto look and voice too. It would be much more tragic to watch him slowly lose his grip on his sanity when he looked like a baby he's meant to be.

Another reason for the lack of sympathy from a lot of people towards him is that his story is told to us through a series of unreliable narrators. Sasuke, for example, gives us two different versions of Itachi. The evil and the good one. The good one (in the flashbacks before the massacre) shows us he was a good and kind boy. Kishimoto uses Itachi as a plot device to further Sasuke's story. If some information regarding Itachi is important to establish Itachi as a character, but is not relevant to Sasuke's arc, it will not be discussed. Otherwise we'd have gotten some information on the time Sasuke trained under Orochimaru and his own guilt for pushing Sasuke into that path. I'm not saying you have to give us all in real time, but after his death, through Kisame (who'd be a better person to talk about Itachi to Sasuke) we could have gotten some more info on him. But nope.

Obito is also an unreliable narrator. As is Hiruzen. Sasuke tells us about Itachi, his brother. Obito tells us about the tragic figure/martyr Itachi, and Hiruzen tells us the perfect Shinobi Itachi was.

There's very little of real Itachi himself in all this.

Sasuke didn't know everything about his brother. Obito didn't either or it didn't matter to him enough to reveal more details about Itachi to Sasuke. Hiruzen also had his own guilt and lack of information on Itachi, therefore he only tells us what he knows and considers right about him.

Everyone is telling us about their version of Itachi that they know is right. Itachi is probably the only character whose story is told us like that. For other characters the narrators are very much reliable. Madara's story, for example, is told through Itachi, Obito, and Hashirama. And Hashirama is the most reliable narrator, so we can ignore what Itachi and Obito said about him. It isn't the case with Itachi. In his case we have to draw the conclusions based on all the information we've received from other people.

I don't agree with people who say he's inherently cruel or evil. (I wrote about it here) Unlike many others, if given a slightly better option he would have made better choice. Who else in the Narutoverse had to make the hard choices that Itachi did and he stood by them? People can stay mad with countless 'he could have/should have done this differently' but they're speaking from an outsider's POV who has the luxury of not having been through the trauma the character they're criticizing did. Everything they hate him for can be countered using manga penals. I know this is the bird-eye view of things, but these penals are self-explanatory.

Itachi is one character who did everything wrong, but with proper context that 'everything wrong' can be explained, understood, and to some extent, even justified. If people are going to remove, twist, distort, deny, or downright ignore that context to continue their hate, then I have a very bad news for them. More on this here.

It's why I tend to disagree with most of the discourse on Itachi. People dropping the context depending on their convenience to talk shit about him. And I applaud Kishimoto for creating Itachi. Imagine creating a minor character in a 700-chapter long manga and people being mad about his fanbase. He's a very popular character and some folks like to feel intellectually and morally superior for hating on popular things. They also like to think they're different and hence very special.

[emo-nova]

I am terrified to put my two cents in for Tobirama Senju and Izuna Uchiha on this hell site. Mainly because 1, people are very vocal about their hate and dislike for Tobirama. 2, I tried to have a little look at character analysis for these two and found mostly hate for them.

But this is what I'm analysising them on, both Tobirama and Izuna, their trauma regarding war and their enemy and what caused it and how they reacted. And contrasting them with their brothers, who are humanisated the enemy when they were children.

I'm going to start with Izuna, from what I have gathered through Naruto Wikipedia and manga panels as well as other fan speculation, is that he was also a middle child and had been regarded as a spare to Madara who was the heir. Izuna's trauma comes from war, remembering vividly because of the Sharingan, and the child hunts. He is an angry character, wanting the destruction of all Senju on his death bed and to be avenged, after all, you're dying by a Senju's sword and your siblings killed by Senju. And he was taught to hate them but also that teaching was proved by the skirmishes and the fallout of those skirmishes.

Izuna hasn't had a humanisation of the enemy like Madara had. He knew what they were like through teachings and the battlefield. Madara was taught the same until he met Hashirama and met face to face with someone with the same pains. This is a time where there is no Internet to spread word about different operations within clans, there is no peace to talk freely with eachother, you only have your clan to teach you about the enemy, which they teach you to hate and not think about who they are or why the fight, just to kill and hate the enemy.

I truly believe, that the Izuna and Tobirama's fight was reversed, that Izuna would have turned out to be similar to him.

Here's the reason through my examples of Tobirama. He was the middle child, he was the spare to the heir, his trauma of the war came from fighting and the child hunting and his younger siblings' death. They both have the same traumas and they reacted in a similar way.

Tobirama and Izuna trained hard to kill the enemy, using new techniques to kill the other. They viewed the other as the enemy, their siblings dying by the other clan, their only reference to the other clan is through their clan's teachings and through skirmishes.

Izuna's last breath was to kill the Senju, not to make peace with them, Izuna hated and feared the Senju. He hasn't seen them as humans but other. Dehumanisation of the enemy is a common tactic in real life, especially during war and within the army/military. This is done in these clans to kill others.

Izuna and Tobirama have these ideas due to their clans and due to the war. Hashirama and Madara don't have this to an extent, seeing as they in the end agree to peace due to Madara knowing Hashirama is human and willing to disembowl himself. Tobirama and Izuna never had this for each other.

So, if Izuna were to have swapped positions with Tobirama, there would be a difference within the Leaf. Uchiha's will still be around, Izuna wouldn't want people to marry out of the clan like Tobirama would have done, the Senju would be under surveillance instead. The Senju would properly still be around but they would be restricted. Izuna most likely would have taught others to hate the Senju as well.

What I am saying is that these two characters are messy. They are human. They have trauma as soldiers, and later, they are terrible historical figures. As characters, they are nuanced as they have to deal with living with the enemy since childhood. They can never truly trust them due to fighting them for so long and what they have been taught.

Tobirama, as Hokage, built up the village with plans and legislation and treaties. But his trauma as a child soldier, like Izuna, inhibits him from teaching without prejudice. Am I saying he's a shit man because of it? Yes. But he and Izuna would not simply hug the taught enemy like a brother. Madara and Hashirama could due to meeting and becoming friends when they were younger and out of skirmishes.

What I'm saying is that Tobirama and Izuna are shaped by their trauma. They reacted to that trauma with the sword, and they were taught to be soldiers, not men. These two were used to the chaos of war, and they died in it, do I think they could have been rehabilitated? Yes, though it would be slow.

But they didn't have that. Izuna died hating and cursing the Senju. Tobirama died to save a child from the Uchiha Clan.

Does Tobirama teaching an Uchiha change anything? I am unsure, but it shows growth from his trauma. Would Izuna do the same if he survived instead of Tobirama? I am unsure, possibly due to understanding that they are humans.

As historical figures within Naruto, if roles were swapped, I think it would play in a similar manner. Just with a Senju massacre and possibly also the Uchiha as well, but I'm uncertain. These two, in my opinion, are parallels of each other.

If Tobirama isolated the Uchiha from the Leaf, I truly believe Izuna would have isolated the Senju from the Leaf as well.

[randomnameless]

Not to bring irl shit but when you consider that there are people who believe in their own moral superiority, that everything should burn to the ground, people should die for their cause and those they don't like deserve to die for justice, it makes sense why there would be Agarthan stans despite how comically evil they are in the games. Not saying it's good (it's not), but it's the same sort of edgelord doomer nihilist mentality. Or maybe I'm thinking way too hard about this and they just support them because their waifu is working with them and they can't be bad if she's "purely good" despite their actions in game saying otherwise.

Uh...

I guess everyone knows there are people who are pos around, but what became more and more annoying with the years is how some of those beliefs have been romanticed for X and Y reason (marketing purposes because earl grey sells) and if you add to that the performative era - where being a fan of a character means you have to endorse everything this character says or does, we end up with some mess.

And I think while the devoted fans we all know and love have their part of responsability in this - as you say - supporting characters no matter what to the point of swallowing their nauseabond rhetoric because waifu allies with them before backstabbing them offscreen...

I still believe content creators are sort of also to blame with this, see the earlier earl grey marketing reasons.

IIRC, in the Marvel movies the purple guy who erases half of the universe is/was/got a cup bcs sad uwus he's ready to sacrifice his daughter for the greater good?

Cry me a fucking river !

What about the rest of the world who was zapped due to his whims? Why should I care about the feefees of someone who slaughters billions and not the feelings of the ones slaughtered?

Take Kishimoto : trying too hard to make people sympathise with his anti-heroes ultimately means that their victims have no voice to any chapter, Ramen Guy will never be able to express anger (if he wasn't dead when Konoha was flattened) at Nagato turning his daughter in a pancake, or Sakura will never weep for her parents, etc etc... but we get a long FB about Nagato's sad backstory with, what can be summed up as "the world fucked me over so I'll fuck over the world and you can't stop that unless you decide to fuck me over too" without anyone telling him that his reasoning is puerile and quite frankly stupid.

Madara being very sad not being elected big boss so he takes out his salt by launching repeated attacks at the village and its inhabitants? "Who cares, he was very sad (tm) when Hashirama decided to kill him to protect the village, what a hypocrite !!!"

The less is said about AoT, the better we all are lol, but in honor of MHA ending I'll just say that... I fucking loved the panels at the end (or last chapters?) where randoms civilians are shitting on Shigaraki, even if the panel with the old lady who blames herself for not helping him back then or taking his hand was hilarious, considering that in his FB, he said he would have killed her too "oh poor him if only i died for his sake he might not have grown up as a vilain" come on that's too much earl grey i'm out of this.

As for FE Fodlan, given how earl grey was used to sell and advertise the game, I guess you can't talk to Garcias or Nathalies and ask what they're thinking about the war that is razing their homes because someone wants to unify the world and is willing to sacrifice them to do so, or hell, we can't even listen to Merlinus voice his thoughts about the strange plague in Remire and how horrible it is, to Amy wonder why the fuck her parents transformed in demonic beasts and tried to kill her.

So when even content creators believe that their vilains have to get a pass regardless of the amount of shit they pulled off - I can't exclusively blame devoted fans for going very very far with their takes to support the bae.

Special mention to Miura (rip) who never lost an occasion to portray Griffith as manipulative and conniving, and yet some people really believed (and some still do?) he did nothing wrong...

[fangxin-guoshi]

It's honestly so telling how hashirama interacts with Madara. During the war arc, Madara was sooo excited to see hashirama. The series is showing us through madara's fanboying that hashirama is incredibly important to him. He's constantly praising him when fighting the 5 kage and saying how hashirama is the only one who can defeat him. He's not even angry abt hashirama quite literally stabbing him in the back (and deeming him less important than the village). From this the audience can tell that Madara, more than anything (bc he literally paused what he was doing during the war to do this), WANTS to connect with hashirama. Hsrm is the only person that can make him forget Abt project tsuki no me. I cannot stress this enough. He really LIKES hsrm and wants to be close to him. It's just that fighting is the only way he knows how to express that.

How does hashirama respond? He ignored him. (Yes, practically, ignoring ten tails kinda would've been bad but shut up it's the PRINCIPLE of the matter here also I'm low-key delulu) Madara is trying his hardest to connect with hashirama but hashirama doesn't even notice.

When they were on the cliff side overlooking the construction of konoha, and later in the dingy Uchiha basement talking Abt the stone tablet, hashirama was trying to sorta talk some sense into Madara but he was going about it the wrong way.

The difference is their communication styles:

Hashirama is a talker, he wants to solve problems through diplomatic means without any bloodshed. He was deeply scarred and traumatized from the warring states era, so he wants to avoid any and all fighting, which is similar to Itachi, who witnessed the 3rd war as a child and became a pacifist (like Itachi tho, hashirama realizes some *ahem* .....sacrifices need to be made for the "greater good")

Madara believes that people's actions hold more weight than words. You can see it when he was a child, and he talked Abt how in order for the adults to take him and hsrm seriously, they have to become really strong. Later, after izuna is killed, hashirama's offers for a truce don't work. In that moment where Madara is carrying a very bloody izuna and hashirama proposes to stop fighting, he looks around him and sees the damage that the senju inflicted on the Uchiha. He really wants to believe in Hashirama at that moment, but a combo of izuna's influence and the fact that for Madara, actions are far more important than frivolous words, stops him. It's only when hashirama is Abt to stab himself that Madara agrees with the truce, that hsrm "showed him what's inside him."

That's why hashirama's words didn't stop Madara from leaving the village. It's why during the war arc hashirama couldn't get through to him through talking. It's why madara's world view only changed when black zetsu stabs him in the back. Actions speak louder than words, kiddos.

That's why their relationship failed. Hashirama didn't know how to really connect with Madara in a way that would actually get through to him. That's also why Naruto used a lethal combo of talk no jutsu and beating the shit out of Sasuke to literally knock some sense into him. And it worked.

Anyways look at the madabooty

Goddamn.

[belit0]

Could you do a madara or tobirama if I spelled his name right lol but could you do one where y/n is a Wendigo if you don't know what it is its hard for me to explain you can look it up on google but if not a Wendigo a witch?

I'm so sorry this is long I didn't mean for it to he >∆<

small side note, I HC Indra married a witch.

let's go with a witch! reader

Madara

- It works very well with his personal goals. With a pre-Izuna death Madara, we're talking about a warrior who would use (Y/N) powers to his advantage. Hashirama already knows all his moves, all his jutsus, but bringing an unexpected share of magic into the game gives him an incredible advantage over the enemy.

- He would learn how to mix her powers with his own techniques, making use of any new tactics he could devise based on the possibilities ahead of him.

- He would not expose her in the least. If she agrees to collaborate with the Uchiha cause and destroy the Senjus, Madara would only allow her to use her magic from afar, under the compound's protection and with his own personal guards watching the surroundings. If the enemy learns of her presence, they will want to eliminate her immediately, he will not stand for it.

- If we are talking about a post-peace treaty Madara, he will probably ask for her help to revive Izuna. Just as Tobirama managed to put together a terrible jutsu, playing with life and death, the Uchiha wants the same thing but in a... healthy way.

- He doesn't want Izuna all full of lines and marks, made of paper and without eyes, he wants his little brother back, and he hopes (Y/N) can make it happen.

Tobirama

- From a learning point of view, it's incredible. As a man of science, Tobirama has a hard time believing in anything he cannot see and touch, pragmatic in his convictions and actions, (Y/N) opens up a world of possibilities before him.

- Of course, he does not trust that she is a witch, and does not accept her truth until the woman performs her spells in front of him. It takes him a while to accept he was wrong, but when he manages to wrap his head around the matter, his curiosity is piqued.

- This Senju would be the same post and pre-war, he would not use her magic to his advantage because he prefers to defeat his enemies with his own abilities, boasting only his efforts on the battlefield when he achieves victory.

- He can spend hours watching the things (Y/N) does, the confections of her spells, the magic of her fingers and the sacred prayers she releases every time she performs a ritual. He is fascinated by how real it is, as real as his techniques, as intense as his own jutsus.

- Eventually, he will become obsessed with learning at least some of what she can do, studying her ways and formats in his lab, intent on understanding the beginnings of her magic and why she can do everything she does, where she got it from, how she earned it. (Y/N) is the most interesting object of study he's ever had.

[pachu09]

I like to imagine that Tobirama is one of the girls kinda guy. (Except that he is gay). Women felt safe around him despite his prickly nature. He invented gay best friend accidentally lmao. (Touka and Mito is one of his best friends). But he also belongs to a clique of courtesans from the Fire Country. He visited them when he is on break to hang out with them. Because of this he is dubbed as a playboy or a womanizer. Whenever they have a girl’s night out, I bet you Tobirama will be there lmao. (Much to the confusion of Hashirama lmao).

Madara scowls as he looked out of the window. " There he is again. I can't believe your Brother really is a playboy, Hashirama!. "

Izuna peeked in at what his Brother was looking at. Down below, standing on the main road, he saw Senju Tobirama was once again surrounded by many beautiful Noble Females that joyously tittered and giggled at him. The man even had a small smile as he gamely answers the questions and curiosity that they throw at him. He too scowled as it looked like the man would never escape from his annoying Fangirls.

" Tch. I've been waiting for at least half an hour in his office and he still hasn't ditched them?. " Izuna pouted as he glared at Tobirama’s back.

Madara turns to his brother with a nasty sneer on his face. " What else can you expect from a serial womanizer like him! "

Izuna was was taken aback at his Aniki's venomous tone. He eyed the man worriedly.

" Now, now. Madara. My Otouto is not a womanizer. My Mito and Touka can confirm it. He's just really friendly when it comes to the opposite sex and I don't even know why they trust him so?. " Hashirama strokes his smooth chin in thought. The Uchiha Brothers both turn to him with extreme skepticism on their faces.

" Why else would they flock to him if he didn't slept with them?. " Izuna scrunches his face at his Brother’s question. Yeah, why else would they flock to him?. Its not as if those Courtesans or even Noble Women can keep up with Tobirama’s genius mind....

The office door opening unexpectedly made the three men turn around to look at their guest.

" How about those women actually find Tobirama is a safe man to talk to?. " Mito's graceful form walked in without much fanfare. The three men looked at each other and gave Mito a confused look.

Mito gave them a pointed look back especially Madara. " Tobirama will never sleep with any of them because they're not his type. "

Madara blushes furiously, Izuna choked in his spit. Hashirama’s face darken quickly.

" Are you saying I have to protect my Otouto from lecherous men, Mito–chan?! " Hashirama stood up from his chair and the Hokage desk rotting quickly beneath his hands made the Uchiha Brothers backpedal quickly.

Mito quickly assured her Husband. " No. You don't need to do that, Hashirama. Tobirama can take care of himself. You'll make him embarrassed if you unnecessarily protect him. "

Hashirama scowled more. " But, Mito!. "

Mito glowers. " No!. Enough, Husband!. Tobirama is a grown Adult. Let him decide for himself and support him with whatever he decided to do!. Also, please turn the desk back to what it looks like. "

Hashirama wilted and pouted, he did what his Wife had requested of him. The rotten desk beneath his hands had immediately became smooth and polished as if it was newly made again.

Mito smiled proudly at her Husband and Hashirama beam back at her. The Hokage then let his Wife usher him out of his own office. He never even saw Mito throwing his bestfriend a knowing look.

Izuna, with a sly look turns to Madara as soon as the office door closes. " Soooo....are you ready to court the shit out of Tobirama?. "

Madara slap a palm over his brother's mouth. " Shhh....be quiet!. The plants are listening!. " they both warily eyed the small cactus plant on Hashirama’s desk and the many bonsai that littered the windows of the Hokage's office.

When the smallest of the bonsai rustled its leaves, Madara and Izuna paled and Shūnshin out of the office like they were set on fire.

They're not suicidal enough to confront an angry Hashirama, yet.

Probably after they successfully secured Tobirama as an Uchiha will they then confront the man....

[lossie92]

As promised, here's a snippet from from the beginning of a new fic inspired by a recent conversation I had with the one and only @kooriicolada ❤️

The working title of the story is A Life Saved.

Hope you enjoy!

-

"What's that?"

Madara turned his head to give Hashirama a quizzical look. "What's what?" He asked, wondering what on earth his friend was talking about now.

The two of them had decided to visit an onsen to relax. The last couple of weeks had been stressful to say the least, what with the construction of Konoha finally completed and the village beginning to accept missions. It went without saying that they both deserved a break and so they snuck out to enjoy some much needed downtime. 

The onsen they picked wasn't located within the village, but a few miles away in a civilian town called Tanzaki-gai for that reason. 

It was unclear whether the beta woman manning the counter knew they were ninja and just didn't care or she hadn't caught on to that. Sometimes gaining entry to places like inns and bathhouses owned by civilians was made difficult, since ninja had a reputation for attracting trouble. Apparently they were in luck, because they were allowed inside and were currently washing off before entering the hot pools.

Just then Hashirama gestured vaguely to his back.

"That scar," he said. "It looks... It's quite fresh, isn't it? I didn't know you were injured recently…"

Madara knew immediately which scar Hashirama was referring to. 

"I wasn't," he answered as he focused back on tying up his freshly washed hair. "It looks this way, because the wound got infected. Takashi-oji had to cut it open and clean it. It's taking a while to heal properly after that."

"Was it poison or…?"

"That and poor treatment when I got it," he said, smiling a bit as he remembered that faithful mission. "I still have full mobility though and the scar… It doesn't really bother me."

"Can I ask why?"

For a moment Madara hesitated with an answer. 

On one hand it wasn't as if the reason behind his injury was much of a secret. At this point he was relatively sure everyone within the Uchiha clan knew the truth even if they didn't comment on it. At the same time he hadn't really considered telling Hashirama about it or how he would do it if the subject ever came up. For some unexplainable reason the idea never crossed his mind.

Evidently taking his silence as a dismissal or refusal to continue this conversation, Hashirama changed the subject.

As they finished washing and finally entered the pool he was in the midst of telling Madara about the last preparations for his upcoming marriage to Uzumaki Mito-san, when Madara spoke, interrupting him mid sentence.

"I got injured protecting someone I came to love very dearly," he said. "It doesn't bother me, because it's a reminder of that love and that if I was faced with a similar choice once more I would do the same thing again in a heartbeat."

To say Hashirama appeared to be speechless was an understatement. The man was openly gaping at him as if this was the last response he expected. Granted, Madara was aware he rarely ever spoke so candidly about his feelings and he could count on one hand the number of times it had happened in Hashirama's presence, but it wasn't as if it had never happened before either.

The dramatic reaction was truly unwarranted.

Madara frowned. "If I knew you would react this way—"

"No! It's, I'm… I'm sorry. That's not–" Hashirama paused to clear his throat. "It's just a bit… sudden? I mean, you never mentioned anyone before and your, um, reputation… I just—"

Madara couldn't help but laugh. 

"My reputation?" He asked. "Is this the moment where you shame me for the choices I made in my youth?"

"You know I wouldn't do that," Hashirama was quick to respond. "And I apologise for assuming. Truly. It's just…"

"It's just that you didn't expect me to settle down?" Madara finished for him, mirth colouring his voice. 

When Hashirama simply shrugged sheepishly, he added, "You know, you wouldn't be the first person to think that. I was a bit surprised too, to be honest… And I certainly didn't plan to fall in love." He smiled a bit ruefully. "Then again, can we ever plan for such a thing?"

As expected, Hashirama didn't answer him and they both fell into a companionable silence.

Madara let his thoughts drift back to Konoha and his lover, amused when he imagined how much of an earful he was going to get for disappearing without proper notice. Doubtlessly both Hashirama and him were going to be in a world of trouble later despite being perfectly safe and caught up on their work as much as possible. After all, his omega's temper ran hot. Thankfully though it wasn't difficult to cool it down or turn it into a heat of a different kind.

Smirking to himself as he imagined all the ways in which he could apologise, he leaned back against the stones, his eyes slipping closed.

"You must really love them."

He opened one eye to glance at Hashirama. "Hm?"

"I said you must really love them," Hashirama repeated. "I haven't heard you talk like that about anyone before… It's nice."

"Thank you?" Madara said as he straightened in his seat, not sure what else to say.

"Will you attend the wedding together?" Hashirama asked next. "I'm sure we can squeeze in one more–"

"That won't be necessary."

Hashirama's brows furrowed in obvious confusion. "Why? You don't want to bring them along?"

"That's not it," Madara said truthfully.

"Then why? It would be the perfect opportunity to introduce them to— Oh." Hashirama paused, his eyes widening. "It's someone I know, isn't it? Someone already in attendance?"

Whoever thought Hashirama was an airhead was dead wrong and this moment was proof of that. The man could be uncannily perceptive sometimes, to the point Madara honestly wondered whether his friend wasn't clairvoyant by any chance.

"Yes," he answered after a moment, "it's someone you know."

"Oh?"

Madara said nothing to that and after a few beats of silence Hashirama prompted, "Well? Who is it?"

"I can't tell you."

"Can't or won't?"

"Both," Madara said. "We're trying to keep things between the two of us for now. He doesn't even know—"

He knew he made a mistake right there and then. 

Hashirama's face lit up and he leaned in, his eyes bright and intent as he scrutinised Madara.

"So it's a he then? An omega, yes? And I know him? Is he from a clan? Has to be, right? Does he work in administration? Or intelligence maybe? A ninja for sure. I don't remember there being many male omegas in the–"

"It's Tobirama."

[domoz]

Girl help i keep Hikaku posting instead of writing the fics I need to.

In this one, Tobirama takes a gamble:

No good sense has brought them here, just Madara's grief and rage.

Hikaku cant begrudge the man that after what's happened to his brother, but in this moment he wishes it had manifested another way. A battle with the Senju is nothing new, but in all of his perfect memory he can never quite remember things being this chaotic.

Hashirama is tearing up the landscape just to match Madara, who in his fury is trying to break past his usual opponent to go after Tobirama.

Tobirama, who without Izuna there to stop him, is currently beating Hikaku to a pulp.

This guy is on another level, he thinks breathlessly. He'd always known that, in theory. Izuna had been one of the best, after all and Tobirama had always matched him (until he surpassed him).

In practice, the only thing keeping Hikaku alive is the sharigan's ability to predict movements and whatever it is that's stopping the Senju from using whatever technique it was that injured Izuna.

He stopped trying to block the water dragons after the first and has gone from disrupting their paths with boulders to trying to shred them apart with pebbles as he's grown more exhausted. It hardly slows them, but it's kept him from being completely swept away so far, and if that keeps him alive than that's what he'll do.

That's what he's just done (ending up soaked, but still on his feet) when Tobirama pauses, landing on a high branch a decent enough distance away that even Hikaku might have a chance to avoid whatever he throws at him.

From his perch, Tobirama tilts his head, looking over Hikaku with a considering gaze.

"You have excellent chakra control." He says after a moment, "Even better than Izuna's."

Hikaku blinks, but he does not un-tense, remembering Izuna's many rants about how Tobirama liked to play games with his opponents -- to let them think they’ve won, until they haven't.

Hikaku does not think himself anywhere close to winning, but every moment they aren't actively fighting is another moment he hasn't died.

"It's hardly worth comparing us." Hikaku frowns, "And pointless. He still lives."

"For how long? Days? If that." Tobirama purses his lips, a tiny thing that Hikaku would have missed from this distance if his sharingan weren't still activated, "No, I don't think there's much time left at all."

Hikaku has no idea how he knows that, but he isn't wrong. The gut wound he'd left Izuna with has been festering. He wouldn't be surprised to return to the compound to find him dead already. What kind of sick taunt is this?

As he talks, Tobirama starts making hand signs -- a long string of them, and not a jutsu Hikaku recognizes. His breath catches and he readies himself, prepared to run from whatever devastation this is going to bring -- but when he finishes the only result he can see is a pale green glow coating the Senju's palm.

Tobirama raises his hand, touches it to a cut on his cheek where a bit of rubble had caught him. When he draws it away, the wound is gone.

A technique that can heal injuries with chakra. When he realizes what he's just been allowed to see -- what he's just been allowed to copy with his sharingan -- Hikaku nearly staggers under the weight of it.

His next thought is 'I'm going to die'. Because surely, surely, there's no way Tobirama Senju is going to allow him to walk away with the knowledge he's just been given.

There's a piercing two toned whistle, a bright white flare high in the sky. Retreat called, on both sides. And contrary to everything, to all rational thought, Tobirama does not leap forward, does not cut his throat or snap his spine, but turns, gives Hikaku a long glance, and follows the rest of the Senju in their retreat.

It takes Hikaku a long moment to unfreeze. To go regroup with his clan, mind whirling.

It must be a trap, but what use is there to lay one for a man already as good as dead? If this was some ploy to give false hope, then why pick him, when he could just keep what had happened to himself?

His clansmen are all silent as they return from the battlefield, Hikaku most of all.

I don't think there's much time left at all. That's what Tobirama had said. But time for what?

Hikaku is not a fool -- he does not try to use what he's learned on Izuna, or even on himself and the many cuts and bruises he's come home with. When everyone else goes off to see their own hurts treated, to see their loved ones, when Madara goes straight from the battlefield to go sit by his brother, Hikaku slips away from them all.

The main house has a koi pond, and though the landscaping leaves much to be desired after years of Madara and Izuna using it for their sibling rivalries, it still holds fish. Hikaku mentally apologizes to the late Lady Uchiha as he grabs a koi by the tail and yanks it out of the water, but he thinks, if this works, he will be forgiven.

He waits for the fish to stop thrashing before he makes a cut down it's side; nothing too deep, nothing it couldn't survive on it's own. He lets his sharingan spin, calls up the memory of the hand signs, the way Tobirama's chakra had been stripped of its element, how it had condensed thicker than he'd ever seen.

It only takes him a few moments to understand why Tobirama had made a comment on his chakra control. It's difficult -- more than any technique he's ever tried. But… Not impossible.

If he had more time, he thinks he'd be able to get it to work. As it is…

Hikaku is not optimistic. But he will try.

He lets the koi back into the pool as, for the first two hours he focuses only on the chakra -- cleaning it, folding it in on itself over and over and over again. He gets his hands to glow green once before he pulls the koi out of the water again.

There's a delicate balance, he learns. He very nearly overloads the fish's chakra coils before he understands what he's meant to be doing. The information the jutsu gives him is nearly incomprehensible, but there's a feeling to it. The cut feels like metal in the back of his mouth -- and it wants to heal, its already trying to, all he has to do is help it along. To hold his chakra on the bits that make his ears ring (and nowhere else, or the chakra will burn healthy flesh) until they've knitted themselves together again.

He thinks he's starting to get the idea when he released the koi back into the water -- cut gone but side covered in chakra burns. The chakra is giving a place for the scar tissue to form sooner than it should, or something like it. Hikaku shakes his head. It's interesting, but the theory will come later when he's got less important things to think about.

A chill has fallen as the sun has gone down, but Hikaku finds himself wiping his brow from the exertion of it all. If he could, he would rest, would at least find another animal to test on, but… Time.

He's not ready for Izuna quite yet, though. Hikaku goes home, throws together the most nourishing food he can in as short a time as he can manage, and tries to heal himself.

It's easier and harder than the fish; humans being the more complicated animal. Hikaku ends up getting a lot more feedback he has no idea what to do with -- but he can tell when he's coming close to hurting himself, too. That probably won't be true, when he tries this on another person. To avoid that he needs more control, and more than anything else, a hell of a lot more practice.

By midnight, Hikaku has managed to heal a bruise that had been starting to bloom on his thigh. Nothing, compared to the wound Izuna has, but he did it.

He feels dizzy when he tries to stand up, to walk over to the main house. Hikaku curses, but it seems like his body has made up its mind for him. Sleep is the best thing for stamina, after all, and he's not certain how much longer his control will hold out without rest. If he's too late, he still knows he's tried his hardest.

He's asleep nearly as fast as his head touches the futon, for all of four hours before anxiety has him rising right before the sun.

Well, he's a shinobi, he's done more on less. He eats old rice, drinks tea that's hardly had time to steep, and walks across the compound in the pre-dawn twilight to try and perform a miracle.

Madara is awake when he steps inside -- hunched over, face in his hands, looking like he's aged about ten years since Hikaku saw him last. For a heart-stopping moment, Hikaku fears that he was too late after all.

"He asked me to take his eyes." Madara says in lieu of a greeting, voice muffled.

Hikaku grimaces. The mangekyo is as horrifying as it is powerful, but if Izuna is asking that, it means…

He's given up. He's conceded that he's going to die. Hikaku has even less time than he'd thought.

"…Is he awake right now?" Hikaku feels breathless, like he's walking on a wire.

"He was when I left him." Replies Madara, voice rough. For him to have left Izuna's side while his brother was still awake, they must have argued. Probably about the eyes.

Hikaku nods, turns to walk to the room where Izuna's sickbed is without asking any more. He won't explain, not yet, won't give false hope. Explanations can come after, right now he's just got to try.

Izuna doesn't react to his entrance -- he's still breathing, but asleep or unconscious. Just as well, Hikaku thinks wryly, pulling the chair he knows Madara has spent hours in to give him better access to the wound on Izuna's side, He'll be less distracting like this.

He's changed this wound before, and when Hikaku pulls the bandages off its still as ugly as it was the day Izuna got it, the blood clotted and dark. It doesn't smell, at least. Hikaku has no idea how this jutsu handles infections.

One bracing breath is all he allows himself before making the handsigns, pulling the chakra to his hands. It's easier after rest, but harder, for the nerves.

Izuna twitches as Hikaku places his hands over the wound, as the back of his throat fills with the taste of copper. His entire attention focuses down to his hands, to the skin and muscle under them, to threading his chakra back and forth and pulling things back to how they should be.

"H'kaku?" He hears after a while. Izuna's voice, but he doesn't look, even as the man goes tense beneath him. He seems to understand that whatever Hikaku is doing, it needs concentration.

It could only have been minutes, or it could have been days by the time Hikaku's chakra starts to waver. He dismisses the technique, not wanting to undo his work. He hasn't done nearly as much as he'd wanted to but he thinks… He thinks he might have stopped the downward spiral, at least.

"Hikaku." Izuna's voice again. When he looks up, Hikaku's vision goes white with spots. He's sweating with exertion, he realizes, and now that he's dropped the jutsu his hands are shaking so badly he doesn't think he'll be able to form the hand signs again.

A heavy hand lands on his shoulder. When his vision finally stops spinning Madara and Izuna are both staring at him with wide eyes.

This is the most lucid he's seen Izuna in over a week.

"Hikaku." Madara is the one who speaks this time, sounding breathless, "What was that?"

 "I think…" Hikaku gasps, "That was Tobirama Senju's way of asking for peace."

[yellowocaballero]

remember the old days when everyone thought "madara" the masked man was ACTUALLY madara? what do you think of those fics that retcon the tobito reveal so obito can be an innocent kid and madara can be. just some masked man who has obito's eye for no reason.

Oh, God. I actually haven't read any fic with that premise. That's tremendously boring. I actually really disliked every reveal that the bad guy du jour actually wasn't that bad, and it was all the fault of a bigger bad guy anyway. I genuinely think that Itachi would have been more interesting, and upheld the themes of the story even more strongly, if he hadn't been coerced into killing his clan - if he been a good kid who just snapped from the pressure. The point of Itachi always felt like 'this is what happens when you abuse children to such a heinous extent, society self-destructs and you dig your own generational grave'. When we're talking about how bad people are the result of a cruel system, then have the system be responsible! Jeez.

Making Obito blameless for the sake of...I'm guessing KakaObi? No shipping good guys with bad guys? (Are these people also Sasuke apologists?) No blorbo'ing bad guys at all? Part of the reason why I feel like shipfics can make a character less interesting is because I notice that a lot of them make the bad guy 'less bad' because they don't want the relationship to be tremendously toxic (JangoObi I'm still salty about you). Personally. What is Naruto without its toxic yaoi.

I've said this before but I do think the only sin is being boring*. Making Obito blameless not only destroys like three different points of Naruto (good kids are abused into being bad people by the system! the curse of generational hatred turning love sour! no matter how much heinous shit you've done you can still turn your life around!) but also drains out the reason KakaObi exists, which is its parallels with Hashirama/Madara and Naruto/Sasuke. If Obito hasn't done heinous shit, then he's not the real Uchiha aspect of the equation here. We're not talking about the curse of hatred anymore. We're no longer feeding into NaruSasu, which is the foundation of Naruto. What's the point.

(*) And Irondad Holocaust AU.

[evilkitten3]

Hey, thanks for the reply! Also sorry for using comments instead of reblogging, I own only a blog with goofy fancomics and I don't want to mix plot discussions into it. I hope you don't mind. If you want, you can cite this whole reply in another post, but I'm ok with anything.

When it comes to narrator reliability, I go for "reliable unless proven otherwise" approach. I agree here, that picking Obito's statements was not the best way to prove things because he had been proved to talk nonsense before. On the other hand, with how few glimpses of Madara's PoV we have, they are consistent with Hashirama's tale except for VoTE fight where Madara intentionally tricked Hashirama about his goals and the outcome. So I'm going to consider Hashi mostly reliable, also because his account is the last one we get, so if Kishimoto planned it to be false, not showing Madara's contradicting PoV (or at least hinting at it, which we don't get either) would be plain bad writing (still doesn't give 100% certainty, but I'd take this over the "God of the gaps" approach).

Even if we don't consider the info on Izuna's dying words true, Hashirama says that Madara had claimed that Izuna had been killed by Senju (also states it as a reason for not being able to trust Senju enough to make a truce), and Madara later confirms that Izuna had been in fact killed by Tobirama (the "Tobirama pin cushion" scene in War Arc). Also, we were never given an explanation for Uchihas turning their backs on Madara other than

prolonging the war

Madara allegedly stealing Izuna's eyes. Both these things trace back to Izuna's death. One can try to give other reasons, but this would be entering headcanon territory at this point, so something that the reader wants to be true rather than something that the reader has actually been given.

As for Tobirama, he plays a way bigger role in his and Madara's paranoia than Madara, and his prejudice is largely ungrounded (however understandable because of his own traumas), but here are some things Madara did that could rile him up:

refusing truce for so long, stemming from Izuna's death (according to Hashirama)

pulling off the whole "it's either me or him" stuff twice (first one is when Tobirama calls Madara a lunatic, so this had started before the founding of Konoha): this also fits thematically with Izuna's death, because having no living brothers left would have put Hashirama and Madara in the same spot

attempting to nuke Konoha with Kurama (even if we assume that Madara didn't want to do it, he intentionally made this impression to lure out Hashirama, so Tobirama can't be blamed for believing it) which had been partially caused by Uchihas rejecting Madara which had been caused by… etc. Tobirama explicitly says that his persecution of Uchihas was to avoid the rise of another Madara, but this is Tobirama we are speaking of, so take this with a grain of salt. Also, through grooming Obito, Madara played a significant indirect role in Uchiha massacre, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it intentional on his side (we can't tell to what extent Obito was guided by "Madara's will"). So in the end, his actions do bear characteristics of a self-fulfilling prophecy, although I admit that it's debatable how much Uchiha opression could have been avoided without Madara fueling every bad stereotype, because the prejudice didn't start with him. No Obito and no Kurama attack could have at least remove a convenient pretext for the massacre from the story, but it's absolutely possible that Konoha elders would have found another one.

I'm not saying all of this to prove that Madara wouldn't have pursued IT with Izuna alive (in fact, it would be interesting to see BZ sway Madara without killing Izuna). My point is that there are too many factors that more or less directly trace back to Izuna's death to confidently state the opposite.

entirely fair! and don't worry, plenty of people prefer commenting for various reasons; no offense taken

honestly, i tend to be more or less the same, although i actually think hashirama's story was probably pretty solid; he doesn't try at all to make claims for the stuff he wasn't there for. he doesn't even say "madara was definitely standing outside the window" he says "tobirama looked out the window and i found a leaf that looked like the one madara looked at the village through"

having said that, from what i remember, at some point kishimoto did end up pressed for time, and that seriously affected the quality of his work (and... let's be honest, the war arc was never naruto's best writing. the war arc wishes it had what the wave arc had)

i think the reason we never heard hashirama's take on why madara's clan distanced itself from him is bc hashirama can't really,,,, comprehend that? like madara explicitly says "no one in my family likes me :(" and hashirama goes "i don't believe that" like he has any way of knowing XD

personally, i'm fairly certain that tobirama killed izuna, and i have no reason to think otherwise (i guess it's possible that black zetsu personally snuck an infection into his wound somehow just to make sure he kicked it and madara got his eyes, but like you said that'd just be headcanon territory, and also it kinda doesn't matter since neither madara nor hashirama would have any way of knowing that, so neither would we)

frankly i personally like the idea that tobirama was just scared shitless of madara, but it's also possible that he held a grudge over the whole "kill u or ur bro" thing. probably not the other stuff tbh, since tobirama never seemed all that invested in the idea of a village before it was founded (probably just. didn't think it could happen), and madara trying to nuke the village didn't happen until after he'd left, so while it may have affected tobirama's relationship with the other uchiha, it didn't really affect his relationship with madara.

obito's role in the massacre was,,,, really badly handled tbh. and also part of why i suspect that the original concept of "tobi" (from a meta perspective) was meant to be madara's ghost possessing obito's mostly dead corpse. madara had a reason to resent the uchiha clan (although i don't think the character we meet in the war arc would've done that, even if the character we met after tobi's "reveal" might have), but obito never really got one. there were fan theories, but not a lot of solid canon evidence. it might've happened, since both obito and madara were justifying everything they did with "well they'll all be fine when the infinite tsukuyomi kicks in, so whatever"

if you keep izuna alive and don't remove black zetsu from the equation, then it's less of a "would madara still do this" question and more of a "how long until black zetsu manages to cause izuna's death and lead madara to do this" question. zetsu needed madara to get the eternal mangekyou sharingan, after all. if it was possible to do that while keeping izuna alive then that'd certainly be interesting, but it's not something zetsu would particularly care to pursue, especially when izuna dying makes it much more likely that madara will take his eyes. but black zetsu is black zetsu, so i'm sure it could figure something out.

if you take out black zetsu entirely, then it's hard to say if madara would've come up with the eye of the moon plan on his own, but i do still think he would've seen the village as a failure and left in the end. like you said, it's hard to say for sure, though.