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lu-is-not-ok · 1 day ago

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Hello there! My friend introduced me to the Daiyu/Baoyu theory recently and I repaid them by immediately becoming crazy about Soda Hong Lu. Have you looked at Soda Hong Lu in the lens of this theory? Because half joking about this:

1. It is the only EGO that I can recall that features a transformation type sequence

2. In the corrosion, two shrimps attempt to check on the hallucinating Hong Lu/Body; he destroys them in the frenzy

3. It is an EGO that Hong Lu strangely has no Identities for in regards to archetype, Poise, and is one of the EGO for which Hong Lu has a dull eye. (Next Walpur might outdate this one but still squinting at it)

4. It is an Envy EGO, the sin associated with. Yknow.

5. In the pull animation, a shrimp is inexplicably focused on, crying from the same side Hong Lu's jade eye is on.

Idk if this is totally out of the ballpark here, but I'm seeing Soda as an EGO that represents Daiyu being dragged onto the 'boat', that being the family, as Baoyu guiltily observes, barely keeping it together under the idea that the 'boat' is the "better life" as seen on the log for Wellcheers in LCorp. They want to be able to pretend that the transformation is something that'll bring them fortune, just another process in the façade, but as the corrosion shows, one slip will doom them into inconsolable panic. It is an EGO that demands you provide to the group, but it is hanging by a thread. Do you see my logic. Shrimp Jia Family.

So, I'm gonna put it this way.

The things you pointed out about Soda? Huge. Like, they do definitely point towards something and I have my own interpretation of them to share.

Your interpretation of the EGO... I feel like it misses the mark a bit, but that's okay, because it very much can still be about the Two in One Daiyu Baoyu of it all in a way, thanks to the things you pointed out.

Let me explain.

Soda, both for Ryoshu and Hong Lu, is symbolic for their escapism, while also having some major themes of Reality/Fiction.

To briefly show what I mean by explaining Ryoshu's Soda - her form of escapism is that of indulging in the cruel Reality. Note how her Soda focuses on the Wellcheers drink itself - she uses the soda itself to attack, and in the corrosion she turns into the soda as well. Her EGO focuses on the cruel Reality that Wellcheers is a soda company that only cares about people consuming their product, she literally forces her target to drink it in her Awakening animation. Her Corrosion then focuses on the Fictionalization of that Reality, on the rumors that the soda can lead you to wake up on a ship in the middle of an ocean.

This isn't a Ryoshu post though, so if any Ryoshu scholars want to add onto this with their own interpretation of how that connects to Ryoshu's art and how she wishes to reflect reality in all its cruelty, be my guests.

Now, back to Hong Lu's Soda - for him, escapism is the reverse. He indulges in Fiction, his EGO reflecting the life shown in hypothetical Wellcheers' advertisements, happily fishing for shrimp among prawn on a ship in the middle of an ocean, surrounded by seagulls. Then, his Corrosion is the Realization of that Fiction, of what it would be like to actually live on a ship like that, having to hear seagulls scream and run away from you.

And this is where the details you pointed out come in. Because they made me realize something.

The 'Fiction' being symbolized by Soda? It's Hong Lu's current life as 'Hong Lu'.

Here's the thing about the Daiyu Baoyu theory - one of its many parts is that Hong Lu as a person does not exist. 'Hong Lu' is a fake persona. He's not a real person with an actual history, it's a character made up and played by Baoyu to cope with being forced to override Daiyu.

After all, it's not until after Canto 4, where Hong Lu becomes aware of Yi Sang's attempts of calling for help, that he starts actually saying concerning things. Until then he's tried his fucking hardest to make it seem like his homelife is as uneventful as a sheltered rich kid's homelife could be, with the anecdotes only getting more and more actually fucked up when it became clear his turn drew closer. Perhaps because that's what Hong Lu as an act was originally supposed to be - a rich kid like Baoyu but without his baggage, without his trauma. Until he started getting desperate and realizing that he too needs help, but couldn't ask directly without revealing he'd been lying this whole time, so instead he's sprinkling in more and more concerning things hoping Someone Will Get The Hint.

That little tangent aside, I believe this is what the magical girl transformation in the Awakening is meant to symbolize - Baoyu indulging in the Fiction of his new made up persona that is Hong Lu. After all, if you think about it, isn't it a common trope in magical girl shows for the girls to use pseudonyms and keep their true identities secret while transformed? Isn't that exactly what Baoyu is doing while he's acting as Hong Lu?

With that in mind, the prawn that gets focused on in the acquisition animation, the one randomly crying out of the equivalent of Hong Lu's jade eye, could be a little reference to the fact that under the act Baoyu is Fucking Miserable.

And then there's the matter of the ship. If the transformation sequence is a reflection of Baoyu becoming Hong Lu, then what is the ship about?

...It's the bus. The ship is Limbus Company's Bus.

Soda as an E.G.O symbolizes Baoyu's escapism via becoming Hong Lu aboard Limbus Company's Bus, getting carried around to "fish for shrimp" or perhaps hunt for Boughs.

Then there's the Corrosion. The seagulls screaming and crying all around him. The genuine anxiety and panic in his voice (listen to the original file for the voiceline without the effects if you can btw, it's so well acted - you can find it in the Organized Assets drive). The way others try to check up on him and he instead lashes out at them. How the animation seems to purposefully hide the actual enemies being hit so that it seems on first glance like the only things he's attacking are fellow prawn.

Ya'll... this could be another Distortion foreshadowing. Think about it. The realization that his escapist Fiction isn't enough, that the horrible reality he's living in has started to poke through and scream at him and cry at him. And the resulting breakdown causing him to lash out indiscriminately. ...Doesn't that sound like something that could happen with a Distortion?

Alternately, it could simply be a way to show in general what would happen once the act is stripped from Hong Lu. The fear, the panic. The pushing others away. A representation of someone whose escapism is a defense mechanism, and who, upon being stripped of it, cannot handle reality.

So, sorry to say Shrimp Jia Family is likely not the case. Thankfully, we can have the alternative of Shrimp Sinners.

On the other hand, here's a fun semi-related fun fact: the Sin Affinities of the Soda EGOs could in part be references to the two work types you can perform on the Abno to get the grape soda! Gloom representing Repression work, and Envy representing Attachment work. Neat, huh?

#anon #ask #lu speaketh #limbus company #hong lu #hong lu lcb #soda hong lu #lcb analysis #lcb speculation

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lu-is-not-ok · 1 day ago

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Regarding Hong Lu's Lasso EGO. The abno of Rose Hunter in its MD event actually has two 'parts', of the apple and the hunter. Given how he shares this one with Faust of all people, I do think it may be referencing how they are both the one forcing the story to go on and the one being forced to go along with it. This is about Hong Lu I swear its just the more you dig the more he somewhat parallels her. One vs two blue eyes I guess.

For Faust this is via the Gesellschaft. Her as the apple in the way she must bend to the will of the collective Faust as one with a defined role to play. And as the hunter with how she - for the sake of someone else just the abno has its 'client' (there's a few who could fit this description, like Limbus Company as a whole, whomever is financing the whole operation, the Gesellschaft again) - ensures via various methods like keeping certain things from the sinners that things go according to plan.

Her passive is 'sprawling lasso' is possibly a reference to just how many she has, must, encircle for things to keep going. Plus this EGO is Fatal to Wrath and Gloom. This Wrath as her weakness ties into how this is the first time her voiceline, for corrosion, has expressed proper anger and desperation in her voice as far as I remeber. And Gloom I don't quite have a real reason for, perhaps her lament at not doing things of her own will? At being ensared as all others were?

But to loop lasso it back to Hong Lu, for one his awakening voiceline says to 'run along the flow' which has been causing me normal reactions for several weeks now. Regardless, this does tie into a mini theory of mine that the 'flow' followed by Vergillius is in fact one of the subterranean rivers, though I don't have the mythological knowledge to try and pinpoint which one.

And if we do take the stretch of a river = the flow then it connects to what Xichun was doing in Canto 7 and is yet another reference to water, just like in his base ego and in his promo image. This EGO is also weak to Gloom, funnily enough. Sloth too, though I have never had solid thoughts on that sin past it representing acceptance of sorts, typically to a status quo that hurts them. The corrosion line is presumably a reference to him probably just running away from his family the first chance he got, which was probably Faust.

Onto my thoughts on the illustrations, which was meant to be a minor note but we all know how these go. The thorns in Faust’s EGO illust are thinner and look more like rose branches, with one notably going over her leg as she looks up, seemingly about to get on the horse.

Whilst Hong Lu's has much thicker brambles around the edges - though the rose branches do appear near the bottom - striking me as similar to barbed wire, though thicker than in the base EGO illusts (speaking of, in his the wire seems much fuzzier than say, Yi Sang's). He's already saddled the horse and is looking down(?) At something that has already been entangled in thorns, the abno looking over him and who/what has been ensnared in a way that reminds me of judgement.

Ensnared itself, mind, seemingly lacking an arm, having another mangled and literally no legs to speak of, and no rose on its scarf. A drastic departure to how it was in Faust’s EGO, laying traps on the ground with all its limbs freed and intact, with a sunray to its side and a rose placed neatly upon itself, much more alike its MD self. Hong Lu's awakening is not lacking in the scarf rose, though.

Other rapid-fire thoughts: (corrosion) the rose petals on the horses look like it's bleeding as if being slashed from the stomach. (corrosion) Faust still has the reigns and very much uses them which provides her a degree of separation and control over this. Hong Lu does not. Most notable in both of their hurt sprites, Faust’s horse stands on its hind legs on her (or the Gesellschaft's, depending on how you think on it) command, Hong Lu's horse wants to run away and it turning to do so. (corrosion) Hong Lu's noose/lasso arms both have 2 loops each, unlike the one round his neck that has 3. Faust has red laces.

To close this off: I have been switching between their lasso sprites on the wiki and have one question: is Hong Lu smaller on his horse or had my brain made that up, thank you.

Hilarious thing to see before scrolling down and seeing all of this. Anyway. Let's pick this apart a little.

First things - the apple might not actually be a part of the Abnormality itself.

We know from Ebony Queen's Apple's Observation Log that Abnormalities that are conceptually connected through what they represent are in some way able to be aware of each other's existence - Ebony Queen being aware of 'Snow White', aka LobCorp's Snow White's Apple.

Considering that Rose Hunter is seemingly likely connected to the same fable of Snow White as Ebony Queen's Apple and Snow White's Apple are, specifically in that he represents the huntsman sent to kill Snow White on the Queen's orders, and that the way Rose Hunter describes the apple perfectly matches Snow White's Apple ("an apple that will become a princess, not knowing its rightful place"), it's possible that the apple in question *is* just straight up Snow White's Apple, or a representation of it.

I do agree that it's important to keep it in mind when interpreting Lasso, but I believe it's pretty clear that the apple itself might not inherently be a part of Rose Hunter itself.

After all, Lasso isn't the first E.G.O we've seen where the Sinner is shown to be both the victim and the perpetrator. See AEDD and Capote as the major stars of this trend.

I don't have much to comment on regarding your interpretation of Lasso for Faust - I think that works pretty well with what we know. Faust has to follow what the Gesselschaft and Limbus Company tell her to do, and she herself is responsible for keeping the Sinners on track - keeping them ensnared and following the predetermined path of their stories.

I'll touch upon the points you bring up with regards to Sin Weaknesses (and also bring up Sin Resource Costs, which I believe are a bit more important to E.G.O) a bit later.

Because, here's the thing about the Flow Vergilius talks about - we already kinda know what it is. We see it in Leviathan Book 16.

Vergilius's narration describes the Flow as a "shadow hovering over his back". A sort of insight, or pressure that drives him to make specific choices or move in a specific direction.

He also explains how the Flow isn't one singular force - in fact, he explicitly mentions seeing at least two Flows during this chapter. One brightly colored but slow moving Flow that he could see ahead (which he feels would lead him to actually changing the City), and one darker but faster moving Flow that clung to his back. Every time he tries to avoid following the bright Flow, the shadowy Flow always leads him to ruin, to a point where he's inevitably forced to come back to the bright Flow, as all shadows naturally come from light.

It reminds me a lot of "Gravity" from JJBA, in a way. A supernatural force that drives extraordinary people towards each other and towards their inevitable fates, and every attempt to counteract it ends up making things worse for them when it finally catches up to them.

It's also, like, Heavily implied that Carmen is in some way directly involved with what direction the bright Flow takes, as there's an implication that it's trying to direct Vergilius to his inevitable meeting with Carmen that happens in Book 18, considering how much her trying to get Vergilius to distort is telling him how it would give him the ability to change the world to how he sees fit, matching what he believed the bright Flow was leading him towards.

So like. Flow isn't exactly directly related to the Rivers. But it's also not not related, considering the Carmen -> Light -> Cogito -> Rivers chain.

I don't think the "flow" Hong Lu is referring to is the exact same Flow that Vergilius can see and talks about, at least not entirely. I believe it's also meant to be a reflection of the reason why he's initially willing to follow his story, similarly to how Faust's awakening line does for her.

While Faust wholeheartedly believes that following the story laid out before her and the Sinners is the "correct" thing to do, Hong Lu simply follows along because he just Goes Along With Whatever He's Told. He figuratively goes with the flow, just agrees and follows until things turn out okay in the end. To quote one of his Base Identity's voice lines: "When you’re distraught, simply remember that life goes on even if what you’re doing now doesn’t work out. Then, you’ll be free of worries." As long as he just keeps moving forward, things will be fine in the end.

So, if the Awakening lines are a reflection of why Faust and Hong Lu would feel like they should follow along the path their story is taking, then I believe the Corrosion is a reflection of the "punishment" that awaits them if they are to stray from it. To quote Rose Hunter's MD event, "Ah... If, however, the course was derailed by your actions, you will be held accountable."

Hong Lu's Corrosion line here is the easier one to read - it's meant to be a reflection of his Family's reaction when they catch up to him after he runs away. Outright calling out that he ran away, calling him a fugitive, and the very clear threat of punishment.

For Faust it's actually a lot more interesting, because she clearly brings up the apple and the idea that whoever she caught is hiding it, rather than implying that whoever she caught is the one she was looking for. Perhaps because that's a reflection of how Faust will disobey the Gesselschaft. While Hong Lu disobeys his fate by running away from his Family, Faust would disobey her fate by hiding something from the Gesselschaft. A Golden Bough, perhaps? Instead of bringing one back to the Company, she could keep it hidden for herself, effectively disobeying her orders and the path she was put on. And an act like that would Anger Them Severely.

The thing you point out about the differences in how the Rose Hunter itself is depicted is fascinating. The one depicted in Faust's illustration seems like a direct parallel to how Faust has acted towards Sinners - she's been trapping them with Limbus Company, using their own wishes as bait and the contracts they sign as the snares.

But then there's Hong Lu's Rose Hunter, itself trapped by the snares and mangled to the point it seems there's only half of it clearly there. Half destroyed... I don't have an exact thought in my head regarding that, but you could definitely interpret it with a Two in One angle. How whoever is resonating with Rose Hunter is only Half There, and how that half is inherently trapped within themself, as the vines ensnaring it are also its own snares. Hong Lu is, in part, trapping himself, specifically Baoyu and Daiyu are unwillingly keeping each other trapped by the circumstance of their current situation.

Now. Let's talk Sin Resistances. I'm going to be using the names for the Floor Theme Packs based around the relevant Sin Weaknesses as a base here, since that's the closest thing we have to a canon confirmation of what the Resistances could mean.

The Gloom-weak floor is called Emotional Flood, the Sloth-weak floor is called Emotional Indolence, and the Wrath-weak floor is called Emotional Repression.

Both Lassos being Gloom weak could imply that whatever experiences Hong Lu and Faust have to recall to use it are heavily emotionally charged, making them susceptible to "Flooding" with negative feelings. It could be a reflection of the anxiety it causes both of them to think about - after all a major part of Rose Hunter is the punishment for not following one's path. Having to actively keep those consequences in mind to use the E.G.O would likely leave them shaken up and weak to such negative reminders.

Indolence means the avoidance of exertion or activity, and it's a close synonym to laziness. Hong Lu's Lasso being Sloth weak could reflect how emotionally numb recalling the relevant experiences leaves him. For him, following the path of the story is all about simply letting things happen and not reacting, just trying to reach the end. He's forced to become avoidant of emotional reactions through being too "lazy" to react. It's not like trying to say anything would change things for him, so why even bother trying? He'll reach the end one way or another. And so, being given even more reasons to not care and become more numb hurts all the more, ridding him of whatever little resolve he might have been holding onto.

As such, Faust's Lasso being weak to Wrath is made all the more interesting - it implies there's a level of intense emotion that the experiences bring out within her that she feels the need to repress and hide. This is different to Hong Lu's Sloth weakness, in that while Hong Lu is just straight up numb and passively avoiding feeling anything, Faust is very much feeling some sort of strong frustration that she has to actively silence. Thus it makes it far more painful to her when she's given more reasons to be annoyed - she's already struggling to keep it contained. Something about having to follow her path leaves her deeply frustrated in a way she feels she cannot let herself express, likely due to the consequences of complaining about it.

I also want to make a quick note on the Sin Resources needed to use the E.G.O, specifically the ones that differ between the two.

While both Lassos require Gluttony and Lust, Faust's Lasso requires Envy, while Hong Lu's requires Pride. This, I think, is actually reflected in their Awakening lines and thus the attitudes they have.

Faust sees following the path as something "correct", as something "right". Her own feelings and thoughts don't matter because the opinion of the story she's following is more important than hers. She's expressing Inferiority - aka, Envy.

On the other hand Hong Lu follows the path because it's something he himself believes to be the best option. He doesn't think there are better options, so he just ignores all the shit he has to go through along the way because in the end, he'll be fine. A very Pride thing to believe.

And yes, Hong Lu for whatever reason is notably smaller on the horse in the awakening sprite. No I don't know why either. It honestly might have been an oversight LMAO.

#ask #anon #lu speaketh #limbus company #hong lu #hong lu lcb #faust lcb #faust #lasso hong lu #lasso faust #lcb analysis #lcb speculation #don't worry about being longwined i do that all the time

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