#hidden agenda meta

[justafriend-ql]

it's all about the *hands* (hidden agenda meta)

i really love the focus hidden agenda is putting on hands, and not just in the hand-holding scenes. even when joke and zo's hands aren't the primary focus of the shot, they're almost always doing something interesting - especially in zo's case. although he's tight-lipped and hesitant about his feelings for joke, zo's hands reveal what he dares not admit.

the expressive power of hands

first, let me nerd out a little about how important hands are as conveyors of emotion. earlier this year, i had the opportunity to go to an exhibit displaying the work of french sculptor françois auguste rené rodin, who "almost obsessively explored the expressive power of hands" . he believed that hands could convey just as much, if not more, emotion than facial expressions. he created several hand studies, my favorite of which - "the cathedral" - i've featured below. the sculpture depicts two hands encircled around one another, fingers just about to touch.

you don't need to see anything but the hands in order to get a feeling of romance, anticipation, and desire. in the spirit of these rodin statues, i want to focus just on joke and zo's hands, and how the series has employed them to tell us how joke and zo feel about each other, even when they otherwise mask their feelings.

joke reaches out; zo panics

hidden agenda #1 in this series is joke's plan to get close to zo under the pretense of helping him win over nita. but it's not very well hidden, as many viewers have noted, because joke keeps reaching out and touching zo. most of the time, it's intentional: too afraid to say he likes zo aloud, he uses his hands to tell zo instead.

and you can tell zo receives the message, because every time joke touches him, he Feels Things and freaks out.

what's interesting is that zo isn't freaking out about joke wanting to touch him. he's freaking out because he wants to touch joke. and he has since the beginning.

gif from @respectthepetty, who first highlighted this moment

and when he's not thinking too much about it, he does reach out and touch joke.

gifs from @gunsatthaphan and @mooninagust, respectively

unfortunately, zo is an overthinker.

zo's hand gestures are usually precise and deliberate, but when joke flirts, they become nervous and clumsy

another way we see zo's feelings for joke through his hands is how zo's precise gestures become clumsy when he's around joke. zo is a dedicated member of the debate team, and that affects the way he talks and gestures. in promo videos and interviews for the series, dunk has frequently mentioned how he had to practice talking and gesturing in the distinct, formal way people do during debates. he thinks before he speaks, talks slowly, and exaggerates his hand gestures to emphasize what he's saying.

but when he's flustered by what joke says or does, all that debate team training goes out the window. he flails, fidgets, and clutches his hands into fists. because he's nervous - big time.

fantastic gif from @chinzhilla

(right before joke asks zo how he feels about him)

when things get intimate, zo doesn't touch joke

reflecting his nervousness and hesitancy about his feelings for joke, zo is careful not to touch him when they kiss, nor when he finds their faces centimeters apart when they're sharing a bed.

gif from @mooninagust

he doesn't touch joke in these especially heated moments because to do so would be a confession in of itself, and he's not ready for that. but he's working towards it - as he becomes more comfortable with his feelings for joke, he's started to reach out to hold his hand (twice in episode 6).

zo's hands are very dynamic in these two scenes. he's relishing the ability to express how he feels in a way that feels comfortable for him, and he's exploring the new sensation of closeness with joke, finding that he likes it.

gif from @userneos

so next time he kisses joke, he's not only going to touch joke - he's going to pull him in closer.

[heretherebedork]

Showing emotion is not a weakness and it will not being others down or hurt anyone. Showing emotion is part of living, part of loving and part of a relationship. Showing yourself, not just the version you believe people want to see, is the most powerful thing you can do.

[bengiyo]

Hidden Agenda: Zo Experienced The Knowing

I was tagged by @respectthepetty this morning in her post about Zo and how much damage Puen did to him. At the end of the post she mentioned that Zo probably Knew who he was this whole time. I want to talk about the timing of this reveal, what it means for this kind of show, and how I feel about it.

I have admittedly been struggling with this show. I think Dunk is often a little hard for me to read, and I often wish that he hadn’t been given such an internal character to play. However, I think the team may be using that to their advantage to cloud our ability to read Zo. 

Zo began the series in a debate with Joke about how people need to be honest about their feelings before going into a relationship with someone, and he’s been nervous to approach Nita. We’ve also seen him showing dismay about possibly being a bad mentor to Pok, along with his general reticence to Joke’s advances. I think I’ve decided that I’m okay with the show recontextualizing much of what we’ve seen before, but I don’t generally like it. Sure, it rewards those who pay close attention, but there’s too much going on for me to do an extensive rewatch to see those scenes again in a new light. However, I like it for queer reasons. 

What fascinates me about our sudden reread of Zo as a Known Gay (placeholder term I use for everyone; Zo hasn’t identified himself; let me have fun) is we watched Zo go through this during their Chiang Khan trip when he realized Pok was seeing Jeng. At that time I only read Zo as concerned with being read as homophobic by his junior who couldn’t come out to him, but now it’s even sadder because Zo was not only concerned about being seen as homophobic he was also not being seen as a member of the community. 

The constant concern he expresses is that he’ll make people uncomfortable. He’s afraid to approach Nita, and has a huge panic when a not-date doesn’t exactly go over well with her. I thought this was part of his confused feelings for Joke, but it’s also about how Zo doesn’t trust himself in romance because of what Puen did. I feel especially sad for Zo because Puen messed him up so badly that he can’t even pursue an opposite-sex romance with confidence either. I felt like a part of Zo hoped that things would be easier if there wasn’t a gay component to the romance and yet he’s still feeling weird and uncertain.

As for whether Zo suffered The Knowing, I am not sure how far back Zo Knew. I can’t tell from his interactions with his mom, but it’s clear from his scenes with Puen and the matter-of-fact way he describes what happened to Joke that he had put a lot of thought into his feelings for Puen at the time. So, because of the way Puen’s actions continue to impact Zo, he goes on the board.

I'm at least relieved that as @justafriend-ql pointed out in her reblog that confirming that Puen did like him, and it wasn't all in Zo's head, allowed him to finally enjoy a moment with a guy he likes and who clearly likes him.

[slayerkitty]

On Hidden Agenda And if the Agenda is Really Hidden

Otherwise known as @respectthepetty and I watched episode 11, looked at each other, scratched our heads and pulled the clown car over to the side of the road. Episode 11 was not the traditional "BL Episode of Doom" it usually is in most BLs. Some BLs do purposefully subvert this trope or move the episode of doom to episode 10 instead.

It didn't feel like that was what happened here. So we hopped out of the clown car, whipped out our phones to check our maps and directions, because we were very, very confused. We were so sure we had the show figured out! And...no?

So we decided to backtrack; turn the clown car around and start the trip again from the start. To take this week and re-watch Hidden Agenda from the beginning and figure out what the hell we missed.

We also took a detour into source material territory (aka looked up a summary about the book) which was no help to the current situation, because @respectthepetty discovered that JengPok, Nita's stalker, Puen, and Wave x Trin weren't even in it! The only thing we were able to confirm with it is that it's from Joke's POV, he's unhinged in it, and Zo spends most of it dating Nita.

With all this in mind, I sat down with episode 1 of Hidden Agenda in hopes that I would discover anything that we might have missed. I also have slowly cultivated two theories that as of episode 6 still hold up though I don't know how much weight I want to give the second one (but I also can't let it go).

Before I delve into the theories, I do want to point out a couple things that I have noticed.

Zo is super intense about debate club, NOVA, and the Finland scholarship from episode 1. His coaching of Joke in episode 2 rivals his mother's coaching of him in episode 10. If someone who makes gifs could make a gif set that parallels those two scenes, I would be eternally grateful; it will blow your mind. Zo's issues with disappointing his mom are also there from episode one, but they are super subtle. He doesn't want Kot to tag him in his IG story because his mom might see him at the bar drinking. He mentions in I think either episode 2 or 3 that his mom hasn't visited in a while because she's been busy and the way he says it is so... ugh, he needs a hug.

Zo's trauma from Puen's horrible treatment of him is also evident from episode 1 as well; he is constantly saying that he doesn't want to make anyone uncomfortable, that he's worried he's upsetting people, etc. It's constant. Seriously, someone hug Zo.

Theory 1: Joke did something bad/something bad happened to someone he cared about (probably in high school and appears to have gotten therapy about it based on how he speaks)

Episode 1:

In the flashback to the Freshy Contest, while Joke is scolding(?) Zo, he says, "What you said on that stage won't change a broken system."

Episode 2:

Joke tells Zo, "My tongue gets me in trouble."

When Joke and Zo are debating about hidden agendas in relationships, Joke asks why he should tell someone things when he starts dating them because he should be able to tell things in his own time.

Episode 3:

Joke says "Before you get to know someone, you need to know yourself."

Joke also asks/tells Zo to trust him for the first time.

Joke talks about the Triangular Theory of Love: Passion, Intimacy and Commitment

Joke is pretty worried when Zo crashes his bike and makes Zo ride with him instead.

Joke mentions that he used to go to the restaurant Zo picked out with his dad, back when they used to go out to eat; this suggests a distance between him and his dad.

During dinner, Joke says that "What you see of someone may not be the whole story," and "Stay true to yourself."

In the library, Joke tells Zo "I would never let someone I love face danger alone."

The next day, Zo is sitting outside when Joke finds him and says that Zo wasn't answering his calls. and it's implied he was searching for Zo because he was worried.

Joke invites himself on Zo's trip as if he's afraid if Zo leaves without him, something bad will happen.

Episode 4:

Joke tells Zo he couldn't leave Zo "alone and sad" and "I'll never abandon you"

Joke also says "I only care for those who care for me."

Joke is afraid of the glass bridge but he's also to worried to let Zo go out on the bridge by himself.

After dinner, Joke says "Sometimes people don't show all their cards."

Episode 6:

Joke gifts Zo a sunflower pillow and tells him to look up the meaning, Zo searches up "liveliness sprung from despair."

Joke insists on picking up Zo so Zo doesn't go out in the rain/worried about his health.

Kot doesn't seem to like Joke and extremely overreacts to the way Joke trying to get Zo to eat the food he bought. Now, Joke was maybe a little pushy, but Kot goes off the handle.

When cuddling in bed, Joke says "hugging for 30s releases Oxytocin" and if they hug longer, "it means we feel the same."

Theory 2: Joke is a stalker

Yeah, you read that right. There is ample evidence throughout the first 6 episodes that on first watch, didn't quite ring alarm bells, but on re-watch, are setting off sirens. I kinda had this as a crack theory in the back of my head after episode 8 first aired, but now it's staring me in the face and feels a lot less crack-y

Episode 1:

Joke eavesdrops on Zo recording his podcast

Joke is super intense when speaking to Zo at the studio and manhandles him a little so that Joke can sort of pin him against the wall.

Joke eavesdrops on Zo and friends on the bus and then approaches him after to give advice on Nita

Joke asks Zo if the iced coffee is for Zo and says it's not because "Zo doesn't like coffee."

Joke always seems to be around when Zo is trying to approach Nita.

Joke confesses that he has a crush before singing a song.

When Zo tries to leave the bathroom after getting sick, Joke actively won't let him, grabbing him roughly and holding him in place.

In the flashback to the Freshy Contest, Zo asks Joke why he won't quit if he hates it and Joke says he has his reasons.

At the studio, Joke says "I love you and you love me" in Chinese and proceeds to do what has been touted as an "erotic wedding based tradition" with drinking the Roselle juice.

Episode 2:

Joke starts pushing boundaries with food

Joke and Zo make a deal to help Zo with Nita.

Joke has a fantasy of Zo winning and them kissing.

Joke pushes boundaries with food again

Joke admits to Zo he has a crush on someone.

When Joke and Zo are debating about hidden agendas in relationships, Joke asks why he should tell someone things when he starts dating them because he should be able to tell things in his own time.

Joke ties Zo's shoe

Joke says he's already started helping Zo with Nita, but has he?

Episode 3:

Joke basically milks all the situations with Zo in his favor under the guise of helping Zo with Nita

Joke admits he listens to Zo's podcast because it helps him sleep.

During dinner, Joke says that "What you see of someone may not be the whole story," and "Stay true to yourself."

In the library, Joke tells Zo "I would never let someone I love face danger alone."

The next day, Zo is sitting outside when Joke finds him and says that Zo wasn't answering his calls. and it's implied he was searching for Zo because he was worried.

Joke insists on driving Zo home despite Zo's protests.

Joke invites himself on Zo's trip really insistently and hugs Zo excitedly when Zo agrees.

Episode 4:

Joke tells Zo he couldn't leave Zo "alone and sad" and "I'll never abandon you"

Joke also says "I only care for those who care for me."

After dinner, Joke says "Sometimes people don't show all their cards."

Episode 4:

Joke knows how long it's been since Zo changed his profile pic.

After dinner, Joke says "Sometimes people don't show all their cards."

Episode 5:

Joke confronts Zo for trying to avoid him and wanting to forget their kiss. Joke is incredibly aggressive and spills his drink on Zo as a result.

Joke continues to message Zo that Zo is avoiding him and that he's going to come over. Zo says not to. Joke does anyway.

Joke gets himself invited to dinner with Zo and his mom.

Joke makes a move while doing dishes and tells Zo he wants to know how Zo feels.

Joke says "why would you hurt me and tell me to forget?" and "you never care about my feelings."

Joke also says "don't run away from me," and "don't avoid me."

Joke confesses through tongue twister.

Joke remembers that Zo hates stink beans.

Joke tells Zo "I would do anything for you," and "I like you Zo, I want to show you that you like me, too."

Asks Zo to let Joke pursue him.

Episode 6:

Joke gifts Zo a sunflower pillow and tells him to look up the meaning, Zo searches up "liveliness sprung from despair."

Joke insists on picking up Zo so Zo doesn't go out in the rain/worried about his health.

Joke pushes boundaries with food again and then fights with Kot.

Zo tells Joke he needs to respect boundaries.

Joke oversteps boundaries again in at debate club.

Joke pushes Zo again for an answer on his feelings; Joke says he "will always wait" for Zo.

Joke also insists that Zo was into him all along and not Nita.

Joke watches Zo at the debate open house and gets jealous.

Joke wants Zo to stay over; he pushes Zo again for an answer to his feelings. When Zo wants to go shower, Joke grabs his arm and stop him, saying that he won't let Zo run away.

Joke gives Zo the arcade t-shirt and when Zo says he doesn't know the significance, Joke tells Zo to take it off. Joke then takes his own shirt off and refuses to put it back on.

Joke asks to hold Zo and Zo doesn't answer, just rolls over onto his side away from Joke. Joke says "silence means yes" (and in this case it did but OH MY GOD) and proceeds to cuddle Zo.

As I go through my re-watch, I'll add more to both theories but as of episode 6, they both hold up. I can't decide of Joke himself actually did (insert bad thing here) to someone, or just knew someone that (insert bad thing here) happened to. Joke being a stalker wasn't that evident at first, but it is now! At a minimum, Joke is obsessive, posessive and overly clingy.

Also, these theories can both be true! They don't contradict each other in any way. Stay tuned for Part 2, probably... Friday or Saturday.

[opuestocomplementario]

hidden agenda might still lacking into showing us the real secret and taking his sweet time doing it but it does makes a extraordinary points about some other stuff

like...doing something about a stalker? in this economy? with police officers and fight scenes that make sense bc the guy is a creep and a violent asshole? FANTASTIC

asking for consent and trying to understand your partner? FROM SOMEONE WHO DID THARNTYPE NONTHELESS? BEAUTIFUL

the built of the relationship? the dates? the cuddles? the nc scene?SHOWSTOPPING

having conversations about sexuality, feelings, fears, likes, dislikes? STUNNING

acknowledging jealousy? WHAT HAPPENED WHILE I WAS FOCUSING ON MOVIES? how did thai dramas envolve like this?

having greek mythology and fairytale references and simbolism? IM SEATED

[shouldiusemyname]

Ep 4 of WHAT WAS MY AGENDA AGAIN? cos I know I had one when I went into the kitchen and now the boy I like is kissing me. WTH??

First of all I gotta say, this show should be called What's The Agenda? And the answer is Gay. Cos this is all the agenda these people have and we love it for them.

With that out of the way, let's talk about this ep. If I had my doubts before, this ep really shows me that this show is about Zo. This is Zo's journey to knowing himself and allowing himself to exist as himself in this world.

Ep 1-3 were set at the university, which now we see is clearly Joke's territory. It's not that Zo doesn't fit in there, because we know he's doing quite well. It's just that he feels that he should take on a certain persona in order to fit in (which I think will be further explained once we get to see his family dynamics).

This week, when we see Zo in his own territory, it becomes obvious that he is not being true to himself when he is at uni. True - he doesn't hide his goofiness or weird interests, but he does feel slightly like a fish out of water and like it's his responsibility to make everyone happy.

In regards to that, I have to say that I love that he is in the debate club because this boy is the ultimate diplomat. He aims to keep everyone pleased and calm. He is always neutral. He takes it all in, takes responsibility for whatever it is that happens and smiles through it in order to keep everybody happy. This is what he does with Joke's dates on ep 3, and on this ep we can see that he did the same with Nita's date and Pok's situation when he feels that he is the one making people uncomfortable.

So now, when he's in his own territory he feels relaxed, he is able to be himself and speak freely about how he feels. This is evident in every little detail from his clothes, to the way he walks, to his facial expression, to his voice. However, it becomes even more clear when we see how much Joke is out of his element. The tables have flipped and this ep Joke is relying on Zo's guidance.

I love this switch at this point in the story, because we've already seen that Zo is confused about his feelings but we were so preoccupied with Joke's agenda that the focus was all on him and what he was doing to Zo. Now, this change in environment and dynamics is forcing us to see a different side of Zo, pointing our attention towards Zo and his journey.

I also like that Joke is there to tell Zo what he needs to hear. Look, I know we joke a lot about Joke throwing around these rules and advice without following any of them. But this is his role in the story. He is there not for himself, but for Zo, because this is Zo's story. Joke functions as a mirror for Zo. Their connection allows Zo to say whatever he thinks and feels very honestly, and then Joke is there to reflect that back to him and give him perspective. It feels like it's the first time Zo is letting himself be this open and vulnerable and share his self-doubt with someone else.

I think that Dunk did an amazing job this ep. He could have played his typical whiny character and make it all about him in the most annoying way. But no. He has actually managed to give us the mature, self-doubting, I feel like it's all my fault but I realize it's not really about me Zo, without being a drama queen. I really got that Zo is basically confused and trying to make sense of all the changes that he's experiencing. Even with Pok - he's not upset about Pok not telling him, he's really just confused because (like with his attraction to Nita and Joke) he thought he had a clear read on the situation and now he's finding out that he was wrong. So he's really just trying to put the puzzle back together in a way that makes sense again.

And the kiss! I LOVED the buildup to the kiss. I LOVED that Zo was crying while listening to Joke's song because this really cements that Joke gets him. Joke knows Zo and knows what he needs to hear, so he gives him clarity and the safety of knowing that he can be himself and act on his feelings without it being the end of the world. Zo knows that he can test his feelings and try to kiss Joke because Joke has now made it clear that Zo and his feelings are safe with him.

*on a side note - these shows are coming right at me with a surgeon's knife. I swear the people making these shows know me and are doing this to me on purpose. Almost every show I've watched in the past 2 months has me going through my own baggage frantically looking for something I know I lost but can't remember what it was. I can't decide whether I like it or not. I guess I'll just have to wait and see...

So, this turned out a lot longer than I'd intended and I didn't even get to Jeng and Pok...

As usual, if you stuck with my ramblings, I seriously appreciate it 💜

[wangjiclub]

Zo chose Nita first. But he started to choose Joke somewhere along the way.

i've been trying to post this since yesterday but somehow the gifs are not uploading so i had to make some changes on the text sorry if it got confusing

One thing we know about Zo is that he's serious about his thoughts, convictions, and dreams. When his mind is set on something, he goes after it with full force. That can be good, but sometimes it stops Zo from thinking about other perspectives, and other ways.

For example, whenever the debate club is brought up, we can all see how dedicated and enthusiastic Zo is about its activities, and his desire to conquer the NOVA trophy. Zo is also very upset about Pok not telling him about his relationship because Zo thought there was something wrong with himself.

But when it comes to Joke and Nita things get worse somehow. Knowing now how Zo feels about this whole situation, we can go back and reanalyze his behavior.

gif by @mantrisanu

"Do you think if your heart races whenever you're around someone, does that mean you have feelings for that person? Even if it was never part of your plan."

gif by @gunsatthaphan

"I felt bad about kissing you, avoiding you, and being the idiot I've been. Despite all that, you still helped me. […] [This time] My feelings are involved. I thought I was into Nita. But I couldn't figure it out why I kissed you. […] I'm feeling like such an idiot. I'm so confused about my own feelings. I feel guilty about Nita and you. Is it because I like you?"

In fact, Zo is someone who wears his feelings on his face. The thing is he doesn't have a mirror 24/7 in front of him, so his brain is blind.

Getting straight to the point, I believe that Zo has been feeling attracted to Joke for years now, since before they fought in the past. But since it has always been weird between them, and he did feel a pull towards Nita as well, he chose Nita. From the moment he made that choice, all thoughts and feelings about Joke were not correctly processed by him. Zo chose to be oblivious to his feelings. He never intended to act on them.

Yet, in the first scene of the show, we have Zo almost panicking at how close Joke was, at how he had no escape while cornered into that wall.

gif by @chinzhilla

Zo's reaction to all the times he gets too close to Joke says it all. He has no control over his expressions, his eyes don't know which part of Joke's face to look at. Zo gets so nervous. And this keeps happening: the two times he tripped and fell right into Joke's arms; when Joke was training him and the book fell in a scene that came right out of a teen movie... We understand why Joke stares, but Zo should be the one who's starting his path towards liking and feeling attracted to Joke.

gif by @justafriend-ql

Another default "Zo around Joke" behavior is the "letting go of all thoughts and living in the moment." When Joke is around, it is so easy for Zo to be himself, to laugh, to bicker, to run around and smile, to talk and enjoy their time together. The world outside of their bubble suddenly doesn't exist.

gif by @ayan-sukkhapisit

But something always brings Zo back to the earth. It's when he realizes something is not going how he planned. What do you mean my heart races when I'm this close to him? Why the thought of touching his hand scare me? Why do I feel all weird when he places his arm around me? Why is he here, in front of me, when I'm trying to run away?

The truth is Zo is fighting against himself. All those years back, he chose Nita. He focused on getting to her, and that's why asking for Joke's help wasn't that much of a burden. But Zo didn't realize his body and mind were working independently from him, doing things his rational side wasn't even suspecting. Zo started to choose Joke instead.

Joke is the one whom he's comfortable with. Joke is the one who makes his heart race. Joke is the one who helps him when Zo needs the most. Joke is the one who pushes Zo out of his comfort zone and makes him discover all these parts that Zo locked inside of himself.

When Joke is honest and open about his feelings, all of Zo's walls, which were already crumbling, go down for good. Zo can't help but let Joke win him over.

[twig-tea]

For a show called Hidden Agenda there's an awful lot of honest and open communication happening and we're only halfway through.

[justafriend-ql]

it's also interesting to see the shift in zo's confidence after his conversation with puen outside the cafe. zo says knowing why puen hurt him wouldn't make him feel any better, and in a way that's true. it doesn't change the fact that puen was cruel to him, and it doesn't convince zo to trust him again.

but there's one piece of it that does matter - puen admits that he did have genuine feelings for zo. it wasn't all in his head.

finally, zo gets validation that his instincts were right. he wasn't just making things up. the problem wasn't him (for thinking their feelings were mutual when they weren't) - the problem was puen (for choosing to deny his feelings and gaslight zo into thinking he was imagining things).

zo leaves his demons behind with puen and hops onto joke's bike while puen watches somewhat wistfully, recognizing what he's missed out on by not being honest with himself and others.

when they return to zo's apartment, zo is more open about his feelings for joke than ever before. and joke can tell something's different.

joke's surprised, because zo - hesitant, nervous, deflecting zo - is openly, directly, shamelessly flirting with him. and he doesn't stop there. he calls joke his boyfriend, yanks him into his room, and kisses him as passionately as he can before cutting himself off because he really should go to sleep, and that's not happening if joke stays over.

the look on zo's face after shoving joke out of his apartment is pure gold. he's not just giddy. he's relieved. all that doubt and insecurity he's expressed throughout the series has been lifted off his shoulders. he's repressed his feelings for so long, but he won't hold back anymore.

a development that may, perhaps, send joke to his grave.

@placetneplacet writing about Zo being resistant to Joke's advances because he truly believed it was all in his head due to Puen deceiving him has me DEEP in my feels because @placetneplacet is right. Rewatching the show with the knowledge of the trauma Puen caused Zo changes everything.

Really think about this, y'all.

THINK ABOUT IT!

Each time Zo felt any good feelings for Joke, he immediately stopped himself.

He shut down every single time because he couldn't trust himself. He didn't want to repeat his mistake of making someone else uncomfortable with his queerness.

When Joke touched him, he had to remind himself that it meant nothing.

So when he kissed Joke, he sat there that entire time believing Joke would tell him he was crazy for thinking the feeling was mutual.

He really tried to convince himself (and Joke) that nothing changed. That is meant nothing. Because he was afraid of losing a friend.

So when Joke said this, Zo panicked even more!

As @justafriend-ql wrote, once Joke spilled the Roselle juice on him, symbolizing his heart being on sleeve, Zo thought he was exposed. He thought it was happening all over AGAIN!

And he sat there throughout that entire dinner with Joke in front of his mom, with that red stain, that scarlet letter, his heart on sleeve FREAKING OUT!

So while Joke was hyping him up to his mom, Zo was getting more anxious telling himself IT WAS IN HIS HEAD! That it didn't mean what he thought it mean. That is was just a friend being a friend.

He was so cold to Joke because he didn't want to give Joke any evidence of his growing feelings. He didn't want Joke to feel uncomfortable, but he also didn't want to give Joke any ammunition to hurt him.

He didn't want to regret it like he did before.

Joke never said how he felt about the kiss because he didn't want to push Zo, but by him not saying anything, Zo went deeper into his head thinking about how he could salvage this without losing Joke.

So the next time he saw Joke, and Joke kept repeating that tongue twister about the fucking toads in love, ZO WAS REPEATING THAT IT WAS ALL IN HIS HEAD! That Joke was just teasing him like Puen had done!

THIS ENTIRE FUCKING CONVERSATION!

Zo was demanding that Joke tell him WHY he kept helping him. He needed to hear Joke say that they were "just friends" so he could finally confirm it was all in his head.

Zo kept calling himself an idiot because he let this happen again. He mixed up the signals. He read too much into it. He is going to destroy another friendship because HE IS THE PROBLEM for thinking the other person liked him.

He was confused because he couldn't stop caring, despite knowing it was one-sided. Even though he knew it was all in his head.

Look at his reaction to being hugged by Joke. LOOK AT IT! He was fighting himself this entire episode. Just like the kiss, he doesn't touch Joke. He stands there. HE IS PANICKING! Because if he hugs Joke, he is exposed. Joke will know how he feels.

It's not until the very end of this episode that Joke tells him that he likes him.

The very last moment, Joke tells Zo what he thought he had imagined was, in fact, real. And look at Zo's face.

That is the look of hope.

He still doesn't believe it.

But in spite of everything, he hopes this is real.

When Zo's friends are also "surprised" by Joke's feelings, it makes Zo doubt it more.

But even though Zo can't express himself because he is still terrified this is all a joke at his expense and believes Joke is going to leave him, Joke keeps showing up.

Joke keeps checking in.

Joke doesn't take Zo's silence as a rejection because he realizes Zo struggles to voice his feelings since he can't trust his feelings, but Joke follows up for his consent each time.

@stuffnonsenseandotherthings told us it's never been about food with them.

Because Puen made Zo doubt himself so much that he fought himself to the point of repression. Zo wasn't trying to quiet Joke's queerness; he was trying to convince himself that Joke wasn't gay. He was telling him it was all his imagination because Joke was simply being nice to him. He was telling him he didn't like Joke being nice to him because HE was getting it confused.

Zo knew who he was, yet Puen convinced him that was all a lie.

And I fucking hate him.

@bengiyo, add him to the list. He knew.

[justafriend-ql]

"you know how much it hurts (to have a queer son)"

i'm so bitter about the flashback scene of the conversation between zo and his mom after she found out about what went down with puen. (as a caveat, i recognize that we don't have confirmation that she knows 100% of everything that happened between zo and puen, just that they had a fight. but i've seen enough conversations like this in my life to be angry now and apologize later when i'm likely proven wrong about her.)

he's tried so hard to do everything right, but he's queer, and there's no coming back from that. no matter what he does, he's never going to be her perfect little boy again. he hopes that if he wins the debate competition (a dream we thought was his own but is instead his mother's), he can be that perfect son in her eyes again.

zo's real dream is for his mother to be proud of him again, to look at him like she used to. for years, he's had to watch as she fawns over students she sees as more successful than him and numb himself to her criticism ('i'm used to it'). tellingly, he decides to hide his relationship with joke until after the debate competition is over, assuming he wins.

because maybe a trophy will be enough of a consolation prize for her to accept the fact that her "goody two-shoes" son likes men.

[heretherebedork]

Zo is just the most avoidant boy ever. He will do everything in his power to avoid, avoid, avoid and he will not stop. He won't even make a choice when his mom asks him what food he wants.

Zo doesn't want to have make a choice or take a stance. He's in debate club because a stance is assigned to him instead of having to take one. And now that he kissed Joke on a whim and his own emotions, he's suddenly found himself in a place where he has to make a choice and take a stance and be himself actively.

That's something he's terrified of, absolutely terrified of, because what if being himself is wrong. What if the person he is... is wrong.

[bengiyo]

Hidden Agenda Ep 1 Stray Thoughts

Aof recruited Tee Bundit to make a romcom BL for GMMTV, and Tee wants to infuse his queer politics into it. I am seated.

I'm glad to see Louis.

Ah, it wouldn't be a JoongDunk show if Joong didn't loom as soon as they interact.

AJ is here! He's talented.

I'm not sure how I feel about the fuzziness of the image.

This plan to ask Joke to help pursue his ex is unhinged. I am at least enjoying seeing Joke react to people discussing him in public.

Joke is also clearly unhinged for encouraging this.

I like Podd's face. I'm glad his character has a reasonable response to the posters being ruined, which is just annoyance and a directive to reprint them quickly before the meeting.

I also like they way they telegraph that Zo tends to get a bit lost in the details.

I hope they keep up this trend of Joong characters being on good terms with their exes.

Helping someone with little things is good advice, but failing to listen to people doesn't work. Now he's broken her bag. I'd be pissed.

I also don't like being tagged on socials when we go places.

Arm is here!!!

Okay, Joke wasn't wrong about Zo needing to ask for the things he wants.

Ah, the singing begins.

Oh yeah, Joke has had a thing for this boy for a while. You don't just hold someone's waist like that when they're sick and abrasive.

Damn, Zo. You can't talk to Nita but you can deck Joke? I see you, bro.

Okay, catching his fist before he punched his own face is cute.

Seems like these two got into some sort of beef in freshman year? Zo's hair looks more confident in the past.

Joke is ridiculous. "I'm going to teach you to hit on my ex as I am clearly flirting with you."

Okay, it's not the strongest first episode ever, but I'm not put off. We can try again next weekend.

[slayerkitty]

On Hidden Agenda and if the Agenda is Really Hidden (Part 2)

Where we last left off on our road trip, @respectthepetty and I had pulled the clown car over, started checking out directions and trying to figure out where we went wrong in our theories and I sat down to re-watch the show to figure out what we missed. Last time I posited two theories and listed evidence to why I think that. Now that I have finished re-watching through episode 11, I think I'm backing off my Joke is a stalker theory. I'm not throwing it out completely, but I don't think that's what's happening here.

There's also something happening with Joke, Zo and the Clytie and Sunflower myth that Zo reads to Nita in episode 3. Zo is repeatedly conflated with the sun/sunshine - he has a sunset painting in his kitchen, Joke photoshopped Zo's face on a sun and said Zo is his sunshine. Joke is conflated with sunflowers - he gives them to Zo over and over. They do switch this role once each - Zo paints a sunflower on his ceramic vase in episode 3 and in episode 11, Joke tells Zo that he (Joke) is Zo's sunshine. To me, that also makes Joke Clytie, the one who was abandoned by someone they loved, who was just waiting for them to come back.

All of this in mind, here's the theory I've centered on: Joke did something bad in high school; his parents paid (or used other means) to get him out of any trouble he was in and it caused a huge fallout in their relationship. Oh, and it happened on Joke's birthday.

So with this new theory in mind, I'm going to go back through all the evidence I posted in the previous post and add it to this one, plus include evidence from the later episodes.

Episode 1:

In the flashback to the Freshy Contest, while Joke is scolding(?) Zo, he says, “What you said on that stage won’t change a broken system.”

Episode 2:

Joke tells Zo, “My tongue gets me in trouble.”

When Joke and Zo are debating about hidden agendas in relationships, Joke asks why he should tell someone things when he starts dating them because he should be able to tell things in his own time.

Episode 3:

Joke says “Before you get to know someone, you need to know yourself.”

Joke also asks/tells Zo to trust him for the first time.

Joke talks about the Triangular Theory of Love: Passion, Intimacy and Commitment

Joke is pretty worried when Zo crashes his bike and makes Zo ride with him instead.

Joke mentions that he used to go to the restaurant Zo picked out with his dad, back when they used to go out to eat; this suggests a distance between him and his dad.

During dinner, Joke says that “What you see of someone may not be the whole story,” and “Stay true to yourself.”

In the library, Joke tells Zo “I would never let someone I love face danger alone.”

The next day, Zo is sitting outside when Joke finds him and says that Zo wasn’t answering his calls. and it’s implied he was searching for Zo because he was worried.

Joke invites himself on Zo’s trip as if he’s afraid if Zo leaves without him, something bad will happen.

Episode 4:

Joke tells Zo he couldn’t leave Zo “alone and sad” and “I’ll never abandon you”

Joke also says “I only care for those who care for me.”

Joke is afraid of the glass bridge but he’s also to worried to let Zo go out on the bridge by himself.

After dinner, Joke says “Sometimes people don’t show all their cards.”

Episode 6:

Joke gifts Zo a sunflower pillow and tells him to look up the meaning, Zo searches up “liveliness sprung from despair.”

Joke insists on picking up Zo so Zo doesn’t go out in the rain/worried about his health.

Kot doesn’t seem to like Joke and extremely overreacts to the way Joke trying to get Zo to eat the food he bought. Now, Joke was maybe a little pushy, but Kot goes off the handle.

When cuddling in bed, Joke says “hugging for 30s releases Oxytocin” and if they hug longer, “it means we feel the same.”

Episode 7:

At the amusement park, Joke mentions he has fond memories of the park because he went with his grandma back in high school (implies the break or disconnect with his family occurred then).

Talk of changing bad memories to good ones (re: Puen)

Joke says "I've never seen so much blood and gore in my life" regarding the haunted house.

Joke's grandma tells Joke that any potential partner needs to be a "fighter".

When his motorcycle breaks down and Zo is surprised Joke can fix it, Joke says "when you love something you learn to take care of it"

Zo says that Joke "sounds like a life coach"

When dropping Zo off, Joke hugs him and says "it's been awhile since I hugged anyone besides my grandma" (ouch, just ouch)

When Joke can't get a hold of Zo, he panics and get the landlady to open Zo's door and is freaked out to find Zo asleep on the floor.

Joke and Zo take day off and make something that looks like vases and Zo paints a sunflower on his.

Despite Joke having a temper, he lets Zo handle Puen how he sees fit.

Episode 8:

Zo comments that Joke "spouts Hallmark lines"

When Zo tells Joke that he and Poom are going to Zo's room for school work, Joke asks "is he trustworthy?"

Joke gets a package of creepy pics (via Jeng) and races to find Zo.

Joke says "I'll take care of you" to Zo

When Joke, Zo and Nita bust Poom, Zo has to pull Joke off Poom.

Joke tells Zo "don't trust strangers too easily" and "if something comes up, we always talk"

Episode 9:

Joke asks "what will I do without you for three months" when Zo says he has to go home for break.

Joke wants three calls a day and a video chat before bed every night (that's a lot, Joke, damn)

Joke tells Jeng "you might regret it one day when you turn around and [Pok's] not there"

In the flashback to the Freshy Contest, Joke is sitting alone outside, looking melancholy when Zo approaches.

Zo offers to take Joke's place in the contest and asks if Joke is okay.

Joke says "no one should be forced to do anything" and "you're the first person to ask what I wanted"

Joke says he won't lie or hide anything during his apology

Zo insists "no silence, no hiding, no secrets"

Episode 10:

Joke is supposed to spend his birthday with his Grandma (Jeng is taking Joke's parents out to dinner).

Joke worries about Zo.

Zo's mom chooses "childhood trauma from parental conflicts results in troubled adults"

Zo quotes statistic of "50% of people with family conflicts commit crimes"

Joke tells Zo "your family and mine are not so different" and it's his "happiest birthday"

(holy time jump Batman - I guess three months have passed between leaving Zo's and the debate club scene)

We get the Wave and Trin back story but the most important part to me was Zo asking "was hitting someone the answer?"

Episode 11:

Joke advises his parents are not coming to the debate, he texted their family group chat and "got left on read"

Joke's family just rolls up to his apartment (does grandma have a key then?) and they just hang out waiting for Joke

Joke's dad films Joke's mom and grandma watching the competition video

Jeng comes by and says Joke is out with friends celebrating and Joke's dad says "it's good Joke is with friends"

Joke's dad sends the video of mom and grandma to Joke

With the preview for episode 12 alluding to more issues between Joke and his family, Joke's proven temper, his aloofness around people, his propensity to speak like he's been to therapy and his extreme concern over Zo, I think that something bad happened and Joke was the cause. His family/money/connections got him out of it, but he's angry and his family and him had a falling out (except for grandma). Abandoned by everything, he was left alone and in pain until he met Zo, his sun.

That is what is hidden in Hidden Agenda, and it was right in front of our faces the whole time.

[shouldiusemyname]

This is

THE FINAL NAIL IN MY AGENDA'S COFFIN...

Well, wasn't going to say anything about it this week, but then I read this by @thegalwhorants - bestie I applaud your determination and thoroughness 💜 and it made me want to write.

So Tee, honey, if this ever gets to you - please call me before your next show cos I get you. I know what you're trying to do and I can help you make it better. It's my job (seriously, like irl I help people to better say what they want to say).

This has the 3 major Tee themes:

Family - found and biological

Queer life - within and outside of the community

Communication - the importance of

I was disappointed that all this goodness was overshadowed by the lack of communication within the show itself. Like parts of it were NOT communicating with each other AT ALL.

However, if you want the what could have been version then let's go!

This show is about Zo coming to terms with himself on all 3 levels:

Struggling with his own family and feelings of disappointment. Trying to be the perfect son as he believes he was never enough in his mother's eyes. It turns him into a people pleaser and he becomes detached from himself. He finds Joke who grounds him and gives him a sense of family where he is accepted without the constant need to be more. Joke saying "you are enough" was exactly what Zo needed to hear. This issue with mum also affects his ability to explicitly come out with Joke as his boyfriend and we are left with the sense that mum knows but wasn't really told. She gets it, but Zo never says it.

On the queer life front we have Zo's past experience of being shamed over his feelings towards a confused closeted friend leading him to think he might like a girl cos he wants to BE her - which is also a major contributor to Zo's 'I'm not enough" issues. So basically, this experience has left him scarred and caused him to further disconnect from the part of him that likes boys, leaving him very confused when he realizes he likes Joke. In addition, he also gets a glimpse into the complexities of queer life and relationships through Jeng and Pok's relationship, which imo makes him hold back when it comes to telling his mother (but this might just be me).

And for the communication - Zo learns to communicate as he's slowly reconnecting with himself. When you people please, you hide yourself. Zo's been hiding for so long that he doesn't know who he is. He's so used to hiding that he can only speak in metaphors which is why all the stories. This is the only comfortable and safe space he has to express his thoughts and how he truly feels because he doesn't have to expose himself. It's the story, not him. Add to that his super diplomatic skills expressed by his excellent debating - cos you have to be able to see all sides if you're a people pleaser...

So, this is the show I was watching and I have extended it all the grace that I can because Tee speaks to my heart.

Basically, the main issue is the name...

[absolutebl]

TOP 10 BL Trends of 2023

This is just me with my analysis hat on. 

1. 2023 = the year EVERYONE went outside their lanes

Everything went topsy-turvy this year in BL. 

For example, Korea gave us agonized yearning and outright queerness (The 8th Sense, The New Employee) while Japan served up soft office workers and tender family (Our Dining Table). 

The BL world went askew for a while, especially in the spring of 2023. 

Not that we still didn’t still get Korea’s soft angsty bubbles or Japan’s “what are you doing and why does it hurt?” kink-fests. But there were quite a few BLs that made us chronic watchers sit up in confusion and wonder if Korea was dabbling in Taiwan’s territory or Japan in Thailand’s. Then they fudged the kisses and we were like... okay, back in familiar territory. 

In contrast, Thailand stayed course-correcting for the damage they’ve done in the past with tropes (2022) and self referential meta criticism (2021), but also almost aggressively returned to their BL roots after last year’s series of shockers. Certainly, they are reexamining those roots, transplanting some, aerating others. But they really went back to classic Thai university and high school BL and pulps in a big way in 2023. 

Taiwan is always difficult to gage because they produce so few but they seem to have stuck with what they do best with no deviation while producing more this year than they have in ages. I’m happy for that, why change a good thing? But there is a tiny part of me that really wants them to hit it out of the part with a quality piece soon. For me, We Best Love still reigns supreme, but I would really like the HIStory franchise to give us that level but longer - like a happy version of Your Name Engraved Herein. I think Taiwan has the chops to give us something as good as The 8th Sense or Old Fashion Cupcake but in their style, and I would like to see them exercise their talent for good rather than just profit. 

I know, what a very odd thing for me to say. But if any BL is going to break into the mainstream American market, I genuinely think it’s most likely come from Taiwan. 

Vietnam and the Philippines are falling behind, in general. They just didn’t bring out very many shows in 2023, and what the brought out tended to fub the endings. This is forgivable in Japan (because of their style and quality) but not what watchers want in the lower production value propositions. In other words, if you do a pulp, you can’t mess up the ending (by romance standards). that doesn’t look to be changing anytime soon. 

2. The Office Romance Dominated

After years of Thailand serving us an endless (and slightly bland) buffet of university (and a few high school) BLs, this year Korea was basically like...

Ofiice. We like the Office. It’s cheap to film we can use grown up actors, acting (mostly) their actual age. 

And yeah... it totally worked. 

To be fair, Japan has always given us office live action yaoi from the beginning (they had the source material) but this year everyone else, including Thailand, seriously started playing in this setting. 

3. Boys Danced with Boys

The darling @heretherebedork​ was a big fan of this one, and I rather like it myself. Prior to this boys dancing together was very very rare in BL, but this year we got way more than our fair share. It was lovely. 

Never Let me Go

My School President 

Bed Friend 

The Day I Loved You 

Step by Step

Be Mine Superstar

Tie the Not 

Dangerous Romance

I think there were a few more. These are the ones I remembered to write down. 

4. Getting (even more) Meta With Tropes 

BL has been getting more and more meta over the past few years but this year they really focused in on tropes specifically. Calling out their own biggest and most favorite tropes in a massive way, especially Thailand and especially GMMTV. 

Like they tunneled in on damaging tropes with Bad Buddy and the like over the past 2 years, and now they are just having fun with us. 

I mean they just started the dancing trope and already they are calling it out? That’s like rapid-fire regurgitated meta there, GMMTV. 

5. Cameos are the norm now 

Taiwan has always loved cameos but in the past the other countries have been show and steady with only one or two a year. (Unless Japan does a parody.) 

This year Korea got in on the game.

Korea rarely starts trends but they do adopt smaller and lesser known existing ones and make them super popular. 

This year they did that with cameo couple appearances, even borrowing a few of Thailand’s pairs (TutorYim and MaxNat traveled north). They did it so much I stopped tracking. Love Class 2, Why R U?, and Jun & Jun were the heaviest hitters. 

Taiwan, of course, came back swinging. Kiseki was the gum-ball machine of pair cameos. (In Taiwan mafia = gay.) 

6. We are entering the cross pollination age

The number of remakes picked up or started this year was startling, not just countries revisiting their own content (Thailand, Japan) but countries revisiting OTHER countries stuff.

Lemme explain...

Korea has started remaking Thai content (Why R U?) alongside cameo'ing Thai pairs.

Thailand is doing Korean IP (My Dear Gagster Oppa) and has 2 Chinese ones slated for next year. 

GMMTV acquired a lot of Japanese IP (Cherry Magic, Ossen, and My Love Mix Up) - and then had problems distributing it. 

This is probably the most surprising trend for me. Especially the Japanese stuff. I would have thought these properties well outside of Thailand's price range (even GMMTV's) not to mention Japan’s legendary IP issues (I swear I typed this pout before the pulled TayNew’s excellent Cherry Magic). 

Also why not option some of the older popular manga instead? Bet that's much cheeper. (I did see a NEW Thai translation of Finder into Thai, which is 90s yaoi, so I have my fingers crossed on that front.)

I shouldn't be too surprised. 

Thailand is running out of y-novel content. Their publication industry is just not robust enough (I was just talking to a friend about this at length recently). But I didn't think they had the funds to option, especially from Japan. 

Perhaps the option deals are for peanuts?

7. Korea got cheeky

I’m not sure quite how else to put this. 

After finally figuring out boys can kiss, Korea started to do not just higher heat but playful higher heat, with more aggressive word play and linguistic innuendo, like they are entering their racy rom-com teenage years (Why R U? Love Class 2 and Jun & Jun in particular.) 

I guess: Welcome to your BL teens, Korea? 

It’s cute of them. I am very much enjoying it. 

And now that comedy is warming them up, we get to see them play with actual queer burgeoning physicality in shows like The 8th Sense. 

It’s nice. I like seeing Korea stretch its wings. They still stick to their bubble, but that bubble seems to be expanding. 

8. The Amnesia Trope is back

And I, for one, would prefer to forget about it. 

9. BL got trendy 

I’m not quite sure how to articulate this category but basically we started seeing a lot of “modern” romance trends out of the west (like a/b/o) show up in our BL. Not a ton and sometimes quite small, but there has a been a steady rise of things like: no seme/uke, femme gay, out gay, condom use, messy gay. 

We also got an increasing range of sub genre frameworks (like mafia, office setting) that’s moved BL pretty firmly (even in Thailand) out of school and into the workplace, whether actual working is involved or not. 

It’s not to the point where it feels like we get more non-school BL than school BL (if I include all countries in this assessment).

Japan, in classic Japanese fashion, quietly started moving in the opposite direction. It’s what they do. 

10. The Vampires are coming 

This is an announcement trend, which I don’t usually report on but it’s so CLEAR. 

So last year we had a spate of announcements of possible Omegaverse (2 from China, 1 from Japan, 1 from Thailand - the only one that’s happened). 

This year we got 5 Vampire (or vampire-esk) Thai BLs announced including one from GMMTV. 

Whether all 5 will actually get made is unlikely, but having had (basically) none prior to this (Kissable Lips), I’m pretty confident that we will get at least 2 of them. And I wouldn’t be surprised if at least one other country made one as well. (Side eyes Taiwan with interest.) 

Final thoughts

It feels like we are also seeing a decline in BL (both by quantity and quality) from Vietnam and the Philippines. As you all know, I don’t track or really watch either of these two very closely. But it feels like, now, no one else is either. 

I think we have likely seen the BL heyday already in both places and their industries are now on the decline. 

We might be witnessing a thinning in the players in the BL field. 

FYI we had approximately 

136 BLs in 2023

Previous Years

2022: 117

2021: 95

2020: 62

2019: 40

2018: 30 

2017: 44 (China’s last gasp)

2016: 27

2015: 17 (50% micro)

2014: 17 (50% micro)

And that’s it! Let me know in the comments if you’ve spotted any additional trends you want to call out.

Last year, 2022′s trend report

2021′s Trend report

Last Year’s Stats & Predictions

(source) 

[thequeenofsastiel]

Oh damn, I decided to rewatch Hidden Agenda bc I wanted to see what kind of dynamic they had in that show(I won't lie, it kind of got lost in the shuffle of college BLs bc there was no kink dynamic and that's usually the only thing that makes couples stick out in the sieve that is my brain; in unrelated news, don't spend years smoking weed), and jfc they couldn't be more different. It's honestly very fun to watch Joong's character(Joke) be the one to hit on Dunk's character(Zo), especially because he does it so tentatively and respectfully(for the most part). I just wrapped up ep 7, and it was super cute that Zo finally agreed to be Joke's boyfriend and then kissed him for a few seconds, before saying that was all they would be doing for the night and shoving him into the hall.

Versus Style aggressively hitting on Fadel and having sex with him in a public building with no promise of anything resembling love on Fadel's part. The differences are wild. They look the same but feel like entirely different people. Reminds me of when Gun played two different characters in Not Me with wildly different personalities. I've said it before and I'll say it again: ALL the awards.

I LOVE good acting.