#he’s so clearly not Wilbur

[sillysootyboi]

some of my fav Wilbur tweets

[whoisdsmp]

I just stumbled upon a blog that deadass had "Wilbur supporter" and "I luv dream" banners on their posts. I just. What???

You mean the guy that systematically physically abused his girlfriend and the other guy who was an utter creep and tried grooming teenagers?? Those are the guys you like and support???

Bruh, get better heroes.

[dwtdog]

when dream said “support victims bc they deserve it not because it benefits you” i immediately thought of boomer

absolutelyyyyyy

[oleryn]

These Are Not Micker Mouse: A breakdown of the Mangoball characters through the lens of Commedia Dell’Arte (by a dramaturg wannabe with too much time on their hands)

In the wake of the Dream SMP’s recent revival brought on by Dream’s latest and greatest tomfoolery, one of the most iconic, unifying, yet hitherto unknown figures of the fandom has finally made themselves known – Mangoball ( @girl-hemingway ), creator of the viral semi-eponymous SocMed AU that took the fandom by storm in 2021-2022. With its cartoonishly zany characters and hilarious one-liners, Mangoball quickly rose the ranks of popular DSMP fanfictions and remains to this day a pleasant, hilarious read that is enjoyable even if you hate the controversial content creators therein. Obligatory fuck the Dteam and Wilbur Soot. Anything good I say about their characters is a positive reflection of Mangoball’s talent and not the content creators themselves. 

In this tumblr post, the author mentions Commedia Dell’arte (16-18th century Italian theatre) as a resource for writing crack fanfiction. That lit my theatre kid neurons up like Tubbo on October 16th, 2020 and so this essay was born. Enjoy my in-depth breakdown of the Mangoball characters through the lens of some of theatre’s most iconic archetypes. however im not a professional and im also not sober so if anything is wrong please just send a bomb to my house or somethingg

NOTE: While some characters or pairings are likened to specific archetypes, most of Mangoball’s characters are a mix of several. 

GLI INNAMORATI - THE LOVERS

This one is obvious. No one in Mangoball’s Cheater Cheater (henceforth known as MB because I’m lazy) embodies the archetype of The Lovers more than its main pairing, Dreamnotfound.

In classic Commedia, the relationship between the Innamorati is the driving force of the entire story. They are often of high status and speak in flamboyant, flowery language; at times, they recite long poetry at length from memory and tend to sing quite often. Brought to foolishness by their hopeless infatuation for one another, the lovers often have no other personality traits besides being in love.

In MB, Dream and George are the hapless romantic leads fraught with drama and miscommunication that threatens to tear them apart. Their dialogue to and about each other borders on incomprehensibly romantic (e.g. goopsie skaboingy, boinky splurge, weeble wobble, skrunkly scribblydoinky bipsy tootsy badointy tiepnsy bip bop boppie goggiy dinty scruggly duggly big bampidointy dougly goopsie scaboinky pipupsy datootsit) and both characters associate themselves with poetry, song and dance, and other lofty forms of prose throughout the work (Dream singing the entire Mama Mia soundtrack after sleeping with George for the first time, reciting Romeo and Juliet sonnets to George despite having never read the play, George texting Quackity the La La Land script line by line by memory). They have little other personality besides the infatuation they hold for each other, but that doesn’t stop them from being enjoyable and hilarious leads that we as readers can’t help but root for.

VECCHI - THE VILLAINS

Though the Italian word Vecchi translates literally to ‘old men’, the Vecchi class of Commedia Dell’Arte characters serve as villains or opponents to the Innamorati. They are usually older characters that use their positions of power for selfish or immoral reasons. This doesn’t translate as clearly to MB as the Innamorati do, but that doesn’t mean that the story is free of Vecchi influences. Sapnap and Tommy are the story’s primary villains – Sapnap for his status as romantic rival to DNF; Tommy for his single-minded hatred of Dream that leads him to create increasingly popular Twitter spaces for the sole purpose of insulting him. Sapnap’s character is marked by his jealousy, his dishonesty, and the continued schemes he pulls to get between the main lovers. He is also the butt of several ratios and is generally regarded as a nuisance. Some of these traits are found in the Pantaleone character – although Sapnap does not possess the miserly money-hungriness that Pantaleone is known for. Anselmo is a lesser-known stock character characterized as a veccho-innamorati, or a romantic rival, but that is the extent of Sapnap’s relation to him. Il Dottore is also sometimes characterized as an adulterer, but like with Pantaleone, Sapnap lacks Dottore’s iconic traits (in his case, being a parody of the educated elite who regularly talks confidently about stuff he knows nothing about and bores the other characters offstage.)

I don’t think any Commedia character possesses such intense hatred for another character as Tommy does for Dream. He’s less of a Vecchi and moreso of a complete foil to the Innamorati – a total and utter hater, largely a flat character beyond his negative feelings for his former Compsci tutor. An Innaodio? That kid will stop at nothing to destroy Dream. I don’t think it’s even explained why Tommy hates him so much beyond his annoyance for Dream’s affections for George. 

Honestly, maybe that’s enough to warrant some hatred.

ZANNI — THE ROOMMATES

Karl, Quackity, Corpse, Wilbur, and the elusive Badboyhalo are all part of the Zanni class of Commedia characters. The Zanni characters are traditionally the low-class servants of the higher-status Vecchi or Innamorati. Usually found in pairs, they are often separated into the silly and buffoonish and then into the cunning, quarrelsome, and conniving. In Mangoball, they’re the roommates/sidekicks of our main leads… apart from Badboyhalo. We’ll get back to him. 

Karl and Quackity are George’s roommates; Corpse is Dream’s. Corpse is a somewhat judgemental watcher of Dream’s antics, not afraid to stir up drama or join Tommy’s hateful lives, and yet remains supportive of him overall. He is also the subject of Wilbur's odd romantic advances. Quackity regularly acts like he wants to actually kill himself over George’s romantic endeavours and regularly threatens the trio with violence or piss-related crimes (e.g. okay but im peeing on the couch!). Karl, as arguably the most rational character of the entire work, is often kinder to George than Quackity is, though his normalcy often leads to him being ridiculed (e.g. the entire group unanimously agreeing that he is the craziest among them for doing such things as eating an orange). Quackity and Karl are also the only ones to break the fourth wall and call out the story for its texting-only medium. In all honesty, they’re too smart (and not horny enough) to fit most of the Zanni archetypes. I would consider them the straight men of the work. Most of their comedy comes from their reactions to what’s going on around them.

Nothing sums up their characters more than this iconic bit:

SPECIAL MENTIONS - WILBUR

The Arlecchino, or Harlequin, archetype is the base for most fool/clown characters that have risen to prominence over the course of history and is a comedic bastion in any Commedia production. Colourful and acrobatic, Arlecchino oscillates between legendary dim-wittedness and a single-minded dedication to achieving his goals. He is often abused by smarter characters, easily distracted by lust and food, and will foray into the complicated, the absurd, and the illegal to get what he wants without a second thought. While what usually sets Arlecchino apart from other Commedia archetypes is his acrobatic prowess, that doesn’t exactly translate well into written prose. 

Mangoball’s Wilbur is a proven criminal, a buffoon, and also implied to be a literal alien. While hardly tolerated by the rest of the crew, he's also responsible for several of Mangoball’s iconic lines. His character is always one step behind the joke (e.g. ‘These are not micker mouse?’ – his inability to understand well-known Disney characters, which he blames on being British) and, at random intervals, acts romantically or sexually towards Corpse without any prompting. His advances go largely rejected or ignored. The other crew members frequently bully him for his antics (e.g. them letting him starve for 20 hours during the road trip) and yet make use of his complete disregard for the law when is beneficial for the plot (e.g. him breaking into a Miami villa and loaning it to two groups simultaneously without realizing). Overall, Mangoball’s Wilbur is integral to highlighting the comedic contrast between the more rational characters and the insane situations they find themselves in. He proves himself as a driving comedic force with the final tweet of the original work.

SPECIAL MENTIONS - BADBOYHALO

fuck if i know genuinely. no one in the history of ever is doing it like him im beign so serious what the ffuck is wrong with him geniunely

he;s fuckign everyones mother. hes eeveryones dad. hes your dad. hes my dad too i thjink. guys i hve to go call my mother rightnow im sorryyyy

[ctwinsduo]

woe cwilbur be upon ye. as promised here are my designs for every cwil era/stage/what have you + my reasons behind each design. design breakdown will be under the read more :>

as a disclaimer going forward: these designs are heavily informed by my own headcanons (namely the nature spirit headcanon, which i will only briefly explain here- if you want more of a background on that here's where I first shared the hc and explained it a bit) i'll be honest idk how much of these hcs/analysis abides by canon? so if you prefer to closely abide by canon this may not be for you. having said that, let's get into this. So one question that may initially come to mind when looking over this is "Why a nature spirit?" which is a reasonable question all things considered. I've already gone over the Watsonian explanation in the past, so instead I'll cover the Doylist take- which is more interesting as it pertains to these designs. Wilbur, as I see her, is a character that has many faces- she warps and changes to embody the view of herself she sees as necessary for the situation, whether that be the revolutionary or the villain. Simultaneously he has this core that's deeply eccentric and often difficult for the characters around him to grasp- this can come in the form of benign weirdness to the struggles with mental illness we see him go through throughout his various arcs. There's this push and pull between the person they want to portray and who they are fundamentally that's always at play.

Them being a nature spirit embodies this to an extreme. As a nature spirit their physical form is informed by their self perception (the one that's warped by the role they feel they need to take) and their own mental state, both aspects of the character that are foundational.

Another question that may arise upon reading all of this is "Why not just make him a shapeshifter?" which is also a valid question. Truthfully this one is rooted heavily in my own ideas of the character, so you'll have to take that with a grain of salt. I am, unfortunately, prone to making shit up /lh With that in mind however, the reason I choose nature spirit over shapeshifter is that, the way I interpret it, it's much more... animalistic? Let me explain: the way I tend to see shapeshifters portrayed is either a. having a base form that's relatively humanoid and then multiple other forms or b. having no base form but still presenting as generally humanoid. As a nature spirit Wilbur has a natural (ba-dum-tsss) tie to well... nature, and all that lives within it.

She's this manifestation of the wilderness whose form isn't even naturally human, yet she shapes herself into something presenting as such. As a nature spirit Wilbur occupies this weird nebulous space between human and beast, never fully embodying either. I find this incredibly interesting for a character that wants to feel and to be treated as human so badly, one that also clearly resents being seen as monstrous (despite leaning into that perception of themselves)

TLDR; Wilbur's 50 contradictions in a trenchcoat (literally) and being a nature spirit gives these contradictions/masks/ect. a physical manfiestation Now that we're 500+ words of analysis in, let me breakdown each individual stage :3 /lh

Pre-SMP + L'manburg

The most "human" Wilbur ever gets here- technically these two are different designs/eras but they have similar design notes so I'm lumping them together here

During this stage of his life Wilbur has a fairly good handle on his shapeshifting and is consciously choosing to look more human

Small details like the fangs, pointed ears, claws, and pupils allude to an inhuman nature. I like to think there's something uncanny valley about them- they look human but the longer you look at them the more small discrepancies you notice

Both look relatively generic appearance wise, if you can't tell this was Wilbur's "I am a Normal Human Man era" but with slightly more gender /lh

Decided to stick Wilbur in a different outfit Pre-SMP than the actual skin most people reference, mostly because I thought it'd be fun. The trenchcoat follows her throughout her development

Lots of goofy ass patches and pins on the coat

I personally hc that Wilbur always has some sort of oversized clothes on because it's a bit like a security blanket for him, very grounding and all that- anyways that's what the trenchcoat is here

Limited notes on L'manburg era- main thing is the glasses; they got cracked in conflict and they just never bothered to fix em

Pogtopia

As a result of stress (and personal perception) Wilbur lost control over his shifting entirely

Wilbur views their nature as inherently monstrous, thus when they think of themselves as monstrous or evil they lose most of their human appearance

Much taller in this form than usual, this reflects both how she feels she's perceived and how she perceives herself (monstrous, scary, inhuman, ect. ect.)

Their height also serves to emphasis the claustrophobic nature of the ravine and especially the button room

Eye color changes from brown to red, yet again another thing which reflects his self loathing

Coat is the same one worn pre-smp, just with some adjustments

Pins & patches removed from the jacket (my friend suggested it saying that he "ripped them out because they were too happy" and I find that mental image particularly silly so it stays)

Covered in stains, partially because the ravine is just. awful. and partially because this thing is not taking care of herself even a little bit

Lenses are even more cracked than they were during the revolution

Ghostbur

This section has a lot less points then the others on account of Ghostbur being fairly self explanatory, but shhhhhh

Reverted to "base form" post death, form is extremely fluid as a ghost- she tends to shift depending on the topic of conversation or the person she's speaking with (Explain being: whenever she talks about "alivebur" she becomes more human)

Less of a note and more rambling: fox ghostbur is especially fun to me given the hatred Wilbur has for Ghostbur. Ghostbur physically reflecting the parts of Wilbur that they hate the most in themselves

For Wilbur their base form- just a normal widdle fox- represents vulnerability. It is quite literally a small, fuzzy animal with little means to defend itself and it is also the culmination of everything Wilbur is running from. Ghostbur embraces this form fully yet is seen as more palatable by the people around her than Wilbur ever was

Constantly leaking a jammy, blue substance from his eyes and the cut in his chest, yucky

Especially long sections of "fur" like their tail and the back of their neck are constantly "dripping" little wisps like rain

Post-Revival

Post-revival his shifting is still fucked up (thank the mental illness for that) but he's got a slightly better handle on it, enough to look semi-human

Eyes have reverted back to brown but their lenses are tinted red anyways (often looks red)

The coat makes a comeback, edges are all fucked up from the explosion

That funky little overcoat/cloak/ect. got yoinked by Niki

Disheveled appearance meant to reflect her rancid ass mental state- namely the hair and the facial hair. Hair is grown out because she can't be bothered to cut it (you bet that shit is full of knots)

Nasty awful smeared eyeshadow as a treat <3 (I just think he deserves to be a little cunty yk?)

Got a little tired near the end here which is why the points got a bit sloppy, maybe I'll add more at a later date who knows. If you made it this far I hope you at least enjoyed reading all of this :>

[antimony-medusa]

gosh i am so so sorry to come into your askbox with this but you seem a knower of things and as an extreme latecomer to this fandom, i have been. a little bit genuinely mystified by the ""dadza"" phenomenon in general? like i've seen figures or characters Assigned Dad At Fanbase before but it's usually because of like. dad hobbies or jokes or fashion sense or an actual child they talk about often or a tendency to actually make "ah yes, i'm your dad" comments/jokes, none of which the real streamer seems to have or do, or a some manner of "gruff character is soft and caring under the surface and looks out for children" archetype, which his RP character doesn't seem to be (outside of MAYBE qsmp, the story that literally became about parenting through peril, but i know this goes back further than that). Is it just because he's older by internet standards and people can't imagine people with more than a 3-year age difference interacting in a way that isn't """parental""? was it a one-off joke that got taken too far? is this all a symptom from the dsmp plot point that snowballed to the extreme? i need to ask because it is just SO far-reaching and i see no clear origin and as you can imagine that is confusing.

Okay so. This is a fascinating question because as I throw my mind back I am a little fuzzy on the actual order of events. I think it was a bunch of things happening that kind of compounded, but to the best of my knowledge what happened was:

Through SMPEarth and MCC, the original sleepy bois becomes popular. Technoblade, Philza, and Wilbur Soot. Shipping is frowned on, so people start getting invested in a family dynamic (often with all three of them as siblings). Through a MCC win, Tommyinnit (also exploding in popularity) gets added to the "official sleepy boys" dynamic, and now we have 4/4— still often interpreted as siblings, if you ever read Snapshots in Lavender, which is drawing from this time period.

Wilbur particularly is huge into the family dynamic, often talking about being twins with techno, brothers with tommy, and referring to Phil as dad and Dadza (cause he was ten years older and that means of course he's OLD and DAD, and Wilbur had a daddy kink). When SBI joins DSMP, wilbur takes the opportunity to canonize Phil as his dad in lore at the same time as he makes Phil kill his character, and tries repeatedly to make Techno his twin, and refers to tommy and him as "like brothers" a lot. Tommy plays into the dadza stuff (he is like a decade and a half younger than Phil so at least it makes more sense) and also is clearly relying on Phil for things like tech support and moral support as the fandom is exploding. Phil is dependable and safe, therefore dad. Fandom takes this and RUNS with it. Passerine happens, and Phil gets written as the dad of wilbur and tommy, Techno as an ambiguously sworn brother to phil, and brother/father/mentor to wilbur and tommy.

Pandemic is happening. 30k people are showing up to Phil streams. TTS off kids basically in distress are latching onto Phil as a supportive and dependable figure who they are seeing as dad in fanfic and on Wilbur streams as Wilbur is playing up the dad thing whenever he interacts with Phil. Phil is like (to the fandom) sure if you haven't got a dad or a good dad you can call me dad I guess and just sort of laughs at his friends calling him dad.

Techno puts his foot down in canon that Wilbur is not his twin, though that doesn't stop either Wilbur or the fandom, and Phil clarifies that Tommy isn't his kid, and Techno isn't his kid, just Wilbur, and this does not stop fandom at all. Tommyinnit's Unbeatable Method and Clinic for Supervillains are written in this period, and Phil dad and techno+wilbur+tommy trio of kids are locked in. Other huge fanfics use this lens— importance of being kind, ars poetica, his curse of binding— a few people such as silverwing are doing techno and phil platonic marriage with wilbur and tommy adopted kids, but the phil=dad lens is inescapable. Even bones in the ocean, which I think might be the biggest phil-centric fic, has a subplot about him being wilbur's dad and how that went.

We start getting into fandom schisms about if Phil is a good dad or a bad dad in canon, with his treatment of Wilbur/Ghostbur/Tommy being variously argued. A common refrain is that cc phil is a great dad, c phil is a terrible dad, so this fic is writing phil as a good dad cause that's what's real. Phil in real life continues to have no actual children, but the fandom refers to Phil as techno+tommy+wilbur's dad so often that he puts "father of three" as his end screen. [EDIT: i have been informed that Tommy made that and send it to Phil and told him to put it as his end screen, so that was still Phil just playing along.] It becomes a common interpretation that okay in LORE phil is only wilbur's dad, but in like pure SBI phil is everybody's dad, and people are writing just the pure character dynamic, not LORE. This is still tagged as not RPF. Dark SBI starts to happen.

The DSMP kind of stutters to a halt, with various endings good bad or contentious. Technoblade passes. The fandom declines, but the fan fiction is kind of self sustaining at this point and has firmly established character interpretations. People are regularly showing up to Phil streams to call him dad. He keeps saying that he's just a guy playing block game, but it's fine if people call him dad if that helps them.

QSMP happens. Wilbur immediately assigns Phil as his dad again, though Phil manages to wiggle out of it enough to say that it's not a bio relationship, they just met on the train. Phil becomes a father of an egg child, and the Phil good/bad dad wars start up again. People start interpreting DSMP canon through the lens of Phil's QSMP actions and explaining how that makes him a good or bad dad. However, shipping is kinda legalized due to Phil having a (platonic) husband, so the lens of viewing Phil as a character in a relationship starts up, but the phil-dad people also continue, notably interpreting team bolas as a family with phil as the dad, and starting wars on the wiki about who gets listed as Phil's family and how/why.

Wilbur is revealed as a domestic abuser, the QSMP ends, and both arms of the fandom decline again. Phil's stream numbers are declining to a more manageable level where he can actually read chat and respond to donos, and he starts responding more firmly to people saying that they love him, dadza, saying that that's parasocial and they don't know him. He is notably no longer laughing at it, and he re-emphasizes that he's just a guy playing block game on the internet. We still get like one dono a stream fully latched onto him as their dad.

A year later, Phil blocks dadza in his chat.

Which is to say to my knowledge it mostly came from fanfiction/other people, and Phil went along with it, and now he is no longer going along with it. He has never seemed particularly dad-y to me, but people viewing him through a wilbur-centric or tommy-centric lens had that wiring laid down for them, and then the fandom fucking Took Off With It with how popular those characters/character focuses were. That's my understanding of what happened, if anyone else wants to chime in go for it.

[transgenbur]

this is somewhat derailing my own post, but to go back on the point about the “jester” role, i think its a fun detail that in french the word we use for jester is the same as for madman (“fou” generally used as “fou du roi” so like madman of the king). i think its a really neat parallel here in terms of the double image cwilbur wants to project. it also ties in with his showman/entertainer complex

one of the things that makes me the most insane about november 16th and pogbur in general is the tonal dissonance between him and the other characters. there's a clear difference when he's being lighthearted/funny because theyre all just fucking around rather than doing heavy rp, and when he's purposefully laughing as a sign of him removing himself of the situation

[blockgamepirate]

This is my petty complaint time, this video annoys me SO MUCH and even more so what annoys me is that the latest comment on it is this:

HE TAUGHT YOU SO MUCH BULLSHIT, PLEASE NO, DON'T LISTEN TO HIM

And yes, I've been thinking about this stream for nearly three years now, I've been meaning to go through it to critique Wilbur's arguments, I just never got around to it

Wilbur: "Tubbo, you've created an anti-state capitalist dystopia"

So all Tubbo had explained so far was that his town had a big company that owned two other big companies. Nothing about the government or anything. It's true that one company owning all the major businesses is pretty dystopian, sure, but I have no idea where Wilbur got the "anti-state" thing from, usually capitalist companies are fine with the existence of states, states do a lot of dirty work for the capitalists

Spoiler alert: Tubbo's city turns out to be pretty much a city state so Wilbur is just wrong anyway, not that he ever acknowledges it even when it does come up

Also it's not like corporate acquisitions are completely unheard of in the UK, as far as I know. Admittedly the UK is also arguably a capitalist dystopia but you know what I mean, the concept shouldn't be all that shocking to Wilbur

He's being so dramatic and trying to make it sound like he's caught Tubbo in a mistake or something. He also keeps asking questions and then not letting Tubbo answer properly before taking like one word Tubbo says and running with it

But this is the one that I find the most obnoxious:

T: "I did some research into like economics and stuff and I discovered this thing called UBI, have you heard of it?"

W: "What's it stand for?"

T: "Universal Basic Income"

W: "Yeah, I know about that"

He clearly does not know what UBI is.

It becomes very apparent very quickly:

W: "So you've got universal basic income but then also the rich exist still?"

T: "Yeah! Yeah they do."

W: "How does that come about then,"

T: "So in my mind--"

W: "is this universal basic income different for different people?"

T: "No, no, the universal basic income is better for everyone, just the people who have--"

W: "In order for there to be a 1% that means someone's earning more,"

T: "Yes, someone is earning more"

W: "but that means the universal basic income isn't universal!"

T: "No no no, not everyone's getting paid the same but everyone gets the same to begin with, okay? But then you can build on top of it."

W: "Oh no, you've got a-- Tubbo, you've got a fucking social point system!"

T: "Have I made a social point system??"

W: "Tubbo, you've made China!"

None of what Wilbur says makes ANY sense here. The only explanation I can think of is that he didn't know what UBI was, made an assumption that it just meant "everybody gets paid the same amount of money" or something like that and then just spoke fast enough that Tubbo couldn't correct him

Tubbo is correct here, Tubbo knows what he's talking about, but he can't out-speak Wilbur who is just throwing so much bullshit out of his mouth that there's no time to even respond

So, UBI means that everyone in the society gets a regular payment of a specific amount of money that's the same for everyone regardless of their life situation (and generally a requirement would be that it has to be enough to live on, altho people do like to water this down a lot...) This would be completely irrelevant to your wages or salary or capital gains. You can choose to either live on the UBI or you can just do the regular capitalist things to earn extra money on top of the UBI

Obviously I'm not one of those people who think that UBI would solve all of world's problems, I mean I am an anarchist and all (and not an ancap either), but it's literally just a very streamlined welfare system. That's all. It would probably be a lot better than the current models we have but it's not fundamentally different. There's nothing particularly weird about it, the point is just to make sure that everyone has enough money to live on, in every other regard it's just normal capitalism

Wilbur completely misunderstands the whole thing (because, again, he does not know what UBI is so he's just trying to imagine what it might mean based on what Tubbo is saying) and jumps immediately to something he apparently has heard of, which is the Chinese social credit system, which has nothing to do with UBI. In fact I'm pretty sure it also doesn't actually have anything to do with income either, or at least not directly, so I don't think Wilbur knows what the social credit system is either

He's literally just talking in buzzwords

Like if you actually wanted to make a leftist critique of Tubbo's city, you could, don't get me wrong. But instead Wilbur keeps insisting that he's made a social point system despite Tubbo trying to explain why it's not that at all

Wilbur just keeps yelling over Tubbo until his own chat turns against him and finally Tubbo himself also kinda gives up

And from there Tubbo also kinda just starts playing into the bit and just lets Wilbur direct the whole conversation, the rest of it is just them getting more and more into the roleplay. Wilbur keeps talking about the state pension plan, even though Tubbo already tried to explain that it's part of the UBI (this actually is how UBI is supposed to work, it does indeed streamline most of the welfare spending! Obviously you can still raise questions about that (I can think of a few at least) but Wilbur didn't let Tubbo explain so I have no idea what Tubbo actually had in mind)

I could try to go through all of what Wilbur says here but it's just too much, so maybe some other time. Although to be honest there are so many other streams that I probably should talk about instead that some fans unfortunately took a bit too seriously because they assumed Wilbur knew what he was talking about

My point here is mainly that just because someone sounds really confident and knows a bunch of buzzwords doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

[sircantus]

OMG so I learned about changelings and I had a thought and I have no one to tell this too so you shall be the one:

An au where human!wilbur gets switched out with a changeling (techno) and Phil decides to find and take back Wilbur and keep them both. Simple but I literally can’t stop thinking about it 😞

Dude i FUCKING LOVE the idea of twinsduo growing up together with one of them as a changeling, like Techno is so clearly Something with the magic in his veins but Wilbur sees literally nothing strange because yeah thats just how techno is, sometimes the forest speaks to him and all that, haha! Silly

Wilbur being a little more in tune with fae magic than a human should be because of the fact he grew up so intertwined with it, a changeling brother clinging to his side all throughout childhood. Techno being able to blend in seamlessly as a human thanks to Wil, thanks to knowing Wilbur’s habits so well. He acts like Wilbur when he needs to really keep his cover. Wil acts like Techno when he needs to seem a bit stronger.

And then Phil, loving them both the same, just not even blinking when Techno somehow makes a garden sprout up in the corner of their room. “Maybe lets keep the plants outside, buddy” he says, patting Technos head, meanwhile Wilbur is like “what if we move the plants outside our window so we can still look at them every day”

[yasminthespiritfaninnit]

I will say one more thing before moving the fuck on and waiting for more. Cause I have a feeling there will be more eventually.

I am completely believing and supporting Shubble. Shubble’s the victim and she did not name her abuser for a reason. We should not jeopardize her plans.

Now, on a unrelated note, I will still be supporting Wilbur as well until if he’s found to be 100% clearly the guy who Shubble is talking about.

I believe in innocent until proven guilty and similarities and coincidences (like Wilbur also being a biter and someone with a messy place (and an ant infestation), and Zoe leaving Lovejoy for some reason) don’t equal evidence.

It’s hearsay and conjecture and I want to see more shit then that to believe that Wilbur’s the abuser.

So, I believe Shubble and that she needs all the support she can get. And I believe that Wilbur is innocent. Until there’s a legitimate update, I will be moving on from this.

Speculating on who the abuser is will only put Shubble in more danger. There’s no good result coming from jumping conclusions right now.

Hug Shubble and keep Wilbur out of this until there’s a legitimate connection. And even if there is a connection, focus on helping Shubble. We aren’t the law, y’all!

[forsaken-headcanons]

LONG POST INCOMING!!

my rankings on which forsakeners would survive charlie slimecicle’s gay high school adventures bc im fixating on that damn show of all things

FOR CONTEXT. Its a gacha life series where characters based on minecraft youtubers live in a homoromantic society thats really heterophobic. The soot family is a very very heterophobic family where they actually kill straights, Wilbur is the one that acts upon this the most. U should totally watch it for the full story despite it being left permanently unfinished due to allegations against important characters ummm okSO

c00lkiddlings will be ranked

starting off we have noob. Its hard to tell if theyd survive since theyre genfluid but seeing as their party skin is femme and in csghsa the most popular ships for different characters are canon love, I’m gonna say they have a crush on guest 666 who I hc as masc presenting SO theyre technically a het. Their survival will depend on how well they can keep their sexuality hidden, which I think they’d be able to do well, excusing it as friendship AND even changing how they present in order to stay safe.

Noob would survive gay high school

Noob would not survive the allegations

next is 007n7. That man is very clearly a homosexual so he’ll be fine. And also uhh guys having children is canon so even if c00lkidd was biologically related to 007n7 he’d be just fine. If there were accusations, he has the c00lgui, so with a little hacking work, he could find a way to escape or fight back. 

007n7 would survive gay high school. 

007n7 would probably survive the allegations

i think shedletsky should be next. In forsaken canon, he has a wife, in forsaken fanon, he’s a dirty homo, so I’m gonna balance it out as him being bisexual. There’s not much information on how they treat bisexuals in csghsa, but since they’re still somewhat straight, Shedletsky might be in trouble. Shed gives off the typa vibes where he’d point at a girl and whisper to his homosexual friend that she’s hot, so Shed may be done for, IF NOT FOR THE FACT THAT HE CAN FIGHT!! Many people in csghsa have powers and shedletsky def would be one of these guys so I think his power would be related to the sfoth swords, which would be very powerful. With some luck, he could probably defeat Wilbur or whoever else would attack him. 

Shedletsky would survive gay high school. 

Shedletsky would survive the allegations. 

Guest 1337 is in the same situation as shedletsky. Canonically has a wife (and even a kid) and is treated as a dirty homo by the fandom, so he’s balanced out as another bisexual. Again, he would likely be targeted for liking girls, but he can also fight, so there’s that. The thing is, he fights without powers, so he’d be at a natural disadvantage despite being trained by the army. Actually, he might not even be let into the army for being heterosexual, so theres a chance he doesnt have that training. In order to survive gay high school, he’d either have to dig deep into his gay side, or have the strength to beat an entire zombie army AND one of the most powerful gays on earth WITHOUT professional army training. 

Guest 1337 might survive gay high school. 

Guest 1337 might survive the allegations

Next up we have the fabled two time. Masc presenting and canonically in a gay relationship, they’d survive easily. The issue only comes if either Two Time or Azure chose to present femininely, which the fandom sometimes does. As long as they both present the same way, Two time would be just fine! Now if they were to present oppositely, there would come the question of if they’d be mentally well enough to fight back against the soot family army, to which I say no. 

Two time probably would survive gay high school. 

Two time would not survive the allegations. 

Next is chance, my he/they enby king. Now, he’s obviously gay, and the fandom rarely portrays them as femme, so they’d be fine. If there were accusations, he has a damn gun. 

Chance would survive gay high school. 

Chance would survive the allegations. 

Moving onto supports, we have Elliot. There’s a lot of difference in how elliot’s portrayed, and there’s the variable of them canonically using any pronouns, but since most of his ships are with men, as long as he presents masc and doesnt use she/her, elliot would be fine. If they ever get into the situation where she does find herself being accused of being straight, she wouldn’t be able to fight back very well, but that’s unlikely with how often Elliot’s canonically and fanonically referred to as male. 

Elliot would survive gay high school. 

Elliot would not survive the allegations

Builderman is next and there’s no denying he’s “one of them queers”. I don’t believe he has a wife, and he isn’t shipped with any women, so heterosexuality is out of the question. He’d be just fine. Even if there were accusations, he has a damn sentry. May not kill in-game, but being pelted with bullets would not leave you unscathed. 

Builderman would survive gay high school. 

Builderman would survive the allegations

Dusekkar is up next and being shipped with a ton of men makes him a prime contender for attending a pride parade. However, there is the fact that I headcanon him as a closeted transfem due to her loveshot skin being canonically transfem. This transition would technically make her straight. There’s not much info on trans people outside of ranboo wearing the girls school uniform in the first episode, which isnt discussed much in the first place. Of course, base dusekkar is still a guy, so he’d be fine on his own, but if she was a trans girlie, she’d be done for. I won’t consider transfem Dusekkar in my final decision, but in terms of allegations, she may be able to hold the army off for a little bit, but definitely not forever. 

Dusekkar would survive gay high school. 

Dusekkar would not survive the allegations. 

Taph is a little hard to say, most people make him gay, and some aroace. I’m gonna say he’s gay just for convenience. He would be just fine as a little homo, but if they suspect he might be a straighty, well… he’d be just fine. This man canonically has bombs in his house. Taph could easily take down the army if he had enough traps to do so. Yes I know bombs dont do damage in-game but theyre still fucking bombs dude. 

Taph would survive gay high school

Taph would survive the allegations. 

Moving onto killers lets start off with jason. Its hard to say what his sexuality would be, but some people ship him with guys so he’d do just fine. Hes also clearly in love with his knife so i’m saying hes objectum as well, which may not be taken very well by the gay high school society since they aren’t very commonly accepted in normal society. He may get harassed a little over it, but wouldn’t really be attacked too much over it. Not targeted by the soot family at least. Now if he was accused… well… obviously the killers are gonna do well if accused of being straight. Theyre killers. HOWEVER! Jason’s just a normal dude, a little childish even. He def won’t preform as well as other killers would, so he’d be able to hold out for a little while, but as all mortals do, he’d get overtaken eventually. 

Jason would survive gay high school. 

Jason would not survive the allegations. 

Now onto the c00lkiddlings. Why am I considering the c00lkiddlings? Well, I began questioning my sexuality around age 10, so why cant they? I will be considering the possibility of change since they’re still young and I’ve changed a lot since I first went woke. 

C00lkidd is tough to tell since he’s a kid and nobody really gives queer hcs to kids. Most I’ve seen is aroace, which I’ll stick with for now. 

There isn’t any info on how they’d treat anyone but straights and gays, so I have to infer a little. I’d say they’d mostly ignore c00lkidd for being aroace. Picking him last when making teams, being forced to pair up with whoever else is left during partners, sitting by himself during lunch, bumped into in the hallways without so much as a glance at him, the usual. He’d survive, but it won’t be fun.

C00lkidd would survive gay high school. 

Bluudud, well, if you’ve heard those audios -you’d know what im talking about if you’ve heard them- he seems to be a little queer. I assume they aren’t canon, but it’s what I’m working with since theres almost no queer hcs for him. 

Bluudud would survive gay high school. 

Pr3typriincess (not sure if i spelled that right) is probably the most cishet coded character ever. I doubt the soot family would set an entire army on an eleven year old, but she’d definitely get bullied over it. If they got physical, she had better say her prayers. Now once she hits high school like I’d assume she’d be in by the time the series would start, she might end up getting killed over being straight. 

Pr3typriincess would most likely not survive gay high school. 

Now, why did I not discuss allegations for the c00lkiddlings? Well, again. They’re kids. Wilbur would not attack them himself. But they would get bullied if they were accused of being straight. IF they were in high school during the series and they WERE attacked, assuming they aren’t under the specter’s influence and they didn’t have the powers I mentioned earlier, their parents would be arranging their funeral long before the attack. 

The c00lkiddlings would most likely not survive the allegations. 

Back to the killers, John Doe is another shedletsky. Canon wife, fanon husband, balanced to bisexuality. Probably would survive being attacked. 

John Doe would survive gay high school. 

John Doe would survive the allegations.  

1x1x1x1 is obviously gonna be classified as gay. If there were allegations, they’d probably be able to crush Wilbur’s skull before the attacks even start. 

1x1x1x1 would survive gay high school

1x1x1x1 would survive the allegations. 

Umm the end smiles sorry for such a long post i reeally wanted to write about csghsa smiles im also m making a csghsa inspired forsaken series so like rhats kinda why i did this

Imma stop yapping now because this is long af

gonna date this rq um 5/5/25 yayy

HELP? Would I survive gay high school and beat the allegations pleading face/silly

[insecure-snek]

I feel like this is probably an unpopular opinion (that’s why I’m posting here and not on twitter) but I just wanna know if anyone else feels this way.

Obviously, I think Wilbur is the one Shelby is talking about, and as someone who was also abused, I feel stronger hearing her story. I hope she’s able to find peace soon.

Maybe I’m just an overly optimistic person, but I think Wilbur needs help. A lot of it. And I think, probably not a popular idea, that even though he’s a piece of shit in this situation, that he deserves it.

I’m an overly trusting person by nature. Obviously I wasn’t there when any of this happened. I am just a stranger on the internet. I don’t know what went on, I didn’t see anything happen. However, I think I want Wilbur to get better and I think he can.

He needs to be deplatformed. At least until he has PUBLICLY apologized to Shelby, and is showing to his friends (not us, the audience, not only Shelby, EVERYONE HE KNOWS PERSONALLY) that he is making an effort to never treat another person like that again. But I think, and please don’t come with your pitchforks for me, the person Wilbur abuses the most is himself.

He clearly has other problems that are not making him a good person. Mental health is not a excuse for poor behavior. However, it is an explanation. Your mental health issues and trauma are not your fault, however, managing both those things are unfortunately YOUR responsibility. They are HIS Responsibility to fix and manage, not Shelby’s, not Phil’s, not James, NO ONE BUT HIM.

Call me stupid, or crazy, or whatever, but I firmly believe in the idea of (almost) every human being capable of change. I have siblings who used to treat me terribly, who are much older than me, and I was hurt by them. But as I grew, I saw them realize just how terrible they treated me. They changed their behavior, and apologized to me many many times. They showed me people can wake up and change their lives around. And, whether or not Wilbur comes back to content creation, I hope he gets the help he so clearly needs.

Shelby owes him nothing. His fan base owes him nothing. His friends owe him nothing. Wilbur owes them everything. Shelby deserves to hold back her forgiveness when it so clearly isn’t deserved. She should never forgive him if she doesn’t want to. That’s her right.

Maybe I believe in people too much. But I truly hope he changes. Not only for his friends, family, and loved ones, but for his own sake. He’s going to end up dead if he continues this way, and I believe no one deserves to die. (I’m not even for the death penalty. Let them sit and suffer forever).

Anyway, get some rest all, drink some water, and remember that the world becoming a better place starts with you. Treat people the way you wanna be treated. 💕

Update: Wilbur’s response was absolutely awful, no surprise there. As someone else who responded said, abusers often don’t think of themselves as such. I still hope he gets help. Props to ranboo and all the others standing up to him. I hope this wakes him the fuck up. Until further notice, please stop supporting him. Unfollow him, un add his music, whatever you can to get him to deeply regret this shit he’s done. Those were his actions. These are the consequences.

[sunshine-on-marz]

JEALOUS RANBOO AND WILBUR (seperate) x FEM!READER. ITS A NEEEEDDDDD.

Ok so I really hope I do this ask justice

(I added Tommy and Jschlatt bc they’re my sillies)

Wilbur〞

-He’s not a super jealous person person

-Lies^

-He’s more scared that someone will be better than him

-Which is dumb

-Because he’s so boyfriend

-So when an (admittedly handsome) guy starts flirting with you

-He’s quick to walk over and justly kiss the top of your head and introduce himself

- “I’m Wilbur, their boyfriend. Who are you?”

-His voice almost shakes but he pulls it together

-He needs lots of extra cuddles that nights

Ranboo〞

-This guy is another not jealous but just scared one

-They just want you to be happy

-But they’re really scared that it won’t be THEM making you happy

-So when you’re laughing and smiling with some guy he doesn’t know he suddenly gets quiet.

-Stops mid sentence with Aimsey

-Texts you a quick “can you come see?”

-You happily walk over and they kiss your cheek

-The guy you’d been talking too immediately walks off to some girl across the room when he sees you with who you’re clearly dating

-Then it all clicks to you so you’re glued to ranboo all night and everyone is happy

Tommy〞

-This dude doesn’t get scared he just gets sad

-Walks over and asks you “who’s this?” with the biggest puppy eyes and it breaks your heart

-“It’s just my friend Tom, [Friend] this is my boyfriend, Tommy, Tommy this is [friend]”

-Then he’s fine

-But he does stay next to you for the rest of the night

Jschlatt〞

-Ohhh this guy

-He’s more possessive if anything

-He trusts you more than he trusts himself

-He knows you wouldn’t cheat

-But he still doesn’t like his partner getting flirted with, because who does?

-So when someone from the staff at the creator party you’re at gets a bit to comfortable Schlatt is fast to step in

-“Hey toots, who’s he?”

-^Said in the worlds snarkiest voice

-Hands grabbing your hips and chin on your head as he smirks at the guy

-You, being oblivious to the man’s real intentions, smile and introduce the men to each other.

-Schlatt won’t lead you away from the guy, infact, he encourages you two to keep taking

-But he stays put right behind you

-Starring daggers at the man

-So the conversation ends rather quick 

——————

I fear I may have gotten carried away at the end there

[zorishy]

I rewatched the Hitting on 16 vod and I have some thoughts.

Revivebur has so many delusions of grandeur. He thinks being the former president of a country that doesn’t exist anymore because he blew it up gives him any significance beyond being feared by the few major characters who couldn’t take him in a fight. In reality, this is so far from the truth that it’s laughable. The only reason that people like Skeppy fear him is because they don’t realize how pathetic he is now; they see him as this powerful figure who blew up a country, without realizing that he had no idea what he was doing as president and that he blew up L’Manberg in a time where he was not there mentally.

I love the moments in hitting on 16 where he assumes Quackity is going to give him Las Nevadas or that he must think about him all the time. Wil clearly is a person who was once important but has since become irrelevant due to time and is doing everything he can to boost his shattered ego. He is very cocky and tries to seem dignified but that confident persona shatters the moment something is said that he doesn’t like and he has to fight to not go off on an angry rant right there.

Also, the freaking poem he wrote just trash talking las Nevadas. He’s so petty and it’s just a joy to watch. And the way he gets increasingly panicked in the final confrontation over Quackity’s horse is just so- Augh /pos. He’s completely lost control of a plan that he thought he had considered every minute detail of and doesn’t know how to bounce back.

Hitting on 16 is definitely my favorite thing that has come out of DSMP. I love it. Please, if you can watch the stream or read the fic (without supporting cc!Wilbur) do so.

[tuesday-teyz]

Can you tell us the all the name of each arcs in butterfly reign and short description abt it :>

Also hai teyz!

Hai, and thank you for the question!

I answered this one before in the comments to the last chapter, so I'm going to copy that and then expand a little on what I mean by arcs and how they are distinct from one another:

Arc 1. The Midday Sun

Includes everything from the start of the story and until the night of the Empress' death anniversary. This is kind of like the 'hanging' point of the story where I set up the main players on the deck and their relationships. Most of the conflicts at this stage are plain and understandable: Tommy hates Wilbur because he left, he is bitter at his family for their preference towards Ranboo, and he gravitates towards Dream.

The majority of people would clearly separate characters into 'good' or 'bad' based on their general disposition towards Tommy, the primary narrator. In a way Midday Sun also refers to how Tommy views himself: at noon, shadows are most prominent and distinct, almost separate from one's own body, much like Tommy and Theseus are two separate entities in his mind.

Arc 2. The Witching Hour

The phrase witching hour by itself refers to the typically darkest part of the night at around 3am, often tied to superstition and magic. The arc includes Tommy and Dream's fallout, Tommy's conflict with Techno, and the entirety of the traveling arc with Wilbur as well as Techno's interlude.

The primary conflicts in here are sort of flipped. We get this betrayal-ish moment in discduo, even though the readers already know that Dream's been shapeshifting, while Wilbur's more empathetic behavior might hint for some people of a possible redemption. This arc is aimed at recontextualizing previous actions and behaviors: Dream helped Tommy out of political gain and then somewhere along the way came to care for him genuinely, Wilbur acted out not out of maliciousness but because he was unable to grasp the nature of Tommy's opposition to him, and Techno had suffered in silence and distanced himself due to intense feelngs of guilt and isolation.

The Witching Hour also refers to Tommy's darkest points when it comes to the state of his mind. On multiple occasions, he contemplates taking his own life, shows complete disregard toward his health and well-being, and his inner conflict of past vs now manifests in him making up reasons to be angry and an asshole to people around him. All of this in part masks how the entities of Tommy and Theseus begin to merge together, ultimately leading to a decision that would probably feel very out of character for Midday Sun Tommy. During the Witching Hour, everyone just looks like their shadows, which someone could argue are their truest selves.

Arc 3. The Star Of The Sea

The Star of The Sea is a lesser common name for Polaris, the North Star, due to it's significance in maritime navigation. Polaris' position in the sky is comparatively stable, which makes calculating distance much more accurate even when using most primitive tools. It is also one of the easiest and brightest stars to find at night. I don't know if anyone else does that, but whenever I want to look for some constellations in the sky, I always find Polaris first, then the Ursa Minor (constellation that Polaris is a part of), and then find the rest relative to positions of Ursa Minor and Major. Probably not the correct or scientific way to do but still, there is an inherent association of clarity tied to the North Star.

Because arc 3 didn't happen yet, I can't say a whole lot without bordering on spoilerish, but Dream's comparison of Tommy to the North Star in arc 1 does have something to do with it. To me, this is the arc for showing the characters' – and especially Tommy's – purest, truest forms. Tying it back with arc 1 and 2, you can't see stars during the day, and to see the stars clearly you first need to reach a point where the sky is truly dark. I'm hoping to loop every unfinished arc around in and on itself here, so hopefully I'm able to produce a full and coherent narrative by the end of this and preferably before I graduate university and apply for a full time job lmao.

[isa-ghost]

Can we please keep in mind that given what we know, there's a strong chance plenty of Wilbur's friends were blindsided by this, and could very well be grieving that someone so close to them turned out to be this horrific?

Given we KNOW Wilbur meticulously kept up a facade socially and publicly, there's a strong chance they had little to no idea he was that way unless they personally witnessed the behaviors. That's horrifying.

I personally know what it's like to have someone you talked to and hung out with near-daily for YEARS to turn out to be a disgusting, lying, fake and awful person. You feel betrayed, sick, angry, confused, devastated. You need time to emotionally process that. ESPECIALLY before doing something like making a public statement about "your stance" on the matter. Some of the people we know felt like family to Wilbur, genuinely, even despite all the jokes that got old so fast within the community. And they could've gone the whole time not knowing all this.

That's not something you get over instantly. That's not something you can think clearly through right away. Anyone demanding a nuanced and well-thought out statement rejecting and condemning Wilbur ASAP for their own satisfaction are stupid as hell. You don't care about the situation, you're fishing for internet points by being ready to pull the trigger on anyone who doesn't say something the moment you expect them to. You care more about Looking like you have humanity by attacking abusers and abuse apologists, instead of Actually having humanity in realizing this has a real impact on real people with real emotions.

They're fucking grieving. And we've seen from plenty of them who thought of him as a friend that Have said something already that they are also ANGRY.

Those who have yet to speak up are likely still processing their emotions. Or processing what they want to say. Or perhaps are even personally affected by the situation as victims of abuse themselves, and therefore NEED to step back before they say anything, if they say anything at all.

They could also be saying something where we can't see. They don't owe the public shit, anything they'd say wouldn't be for us. We aren't entitled to their thoughts or their explicit rejection of Wilbur. Which is Also why anyone demanding instant statements from anyone is a fucking moron. They don't need to "prove" to us that they don't support Wilbur anymore. That's not what anything to do with this situation is about. That's not what matters here.

What matters is they've personally given Shelby their support; which is 10x more meaningful given directly to her rather than in public where it's also largely to please anyone scrutinizing them. What matters is they've stopped engaging with Wilbur, removed his presence from their personal content (ex: Phil removed his point redemption audios that had Wilbur in them), etc. Actions speak louder than words.

Some of you are just fucking lazy and don't want to look deeper, you want convenient and perfectly crafted statements for your satisfaction and comfort right away.

TLDR: think fucking harder before you open your mouth about any cc's reaction to Wilbur or his statement. These people were friends with him (many are also friends with Shelby!), trusted him, etc. There's nuance to situations like these whether you like it or not, and ccs saying anything where you can see it at the exact moment you want them to is not something any of us are owed.

Fuck Wilbur. Fuck his garbage statement. But if you're more focused on hounding every cc who ever knew him publicly to cater to you for one reason or another the second you want them to, fuck you too.