#hanging women

[theodysseyofhomer]

"odysseus is [depicted as being] justified in murdering the twelve women because they [are depicted as having] betrayed the household that provides for them" yeah i know, i just don't think it means we can't interrogate the odyssey further. that is an accurate description of what the text portrays and believes, but even so, it's loaded with assumptions. why does the text assume they slept with the suitors willingly when they are otherwise depicted without much interiority (melantho's feelings about eurymachus are ambiguous even compared to melanthius)? if they weren't willing, would it have been depicted differently, and how? if they were willing, what might have made those relationships look attractive or strategic or safe to them? why are they dependent on the household in the first place? why are some readers resistant to the extension of compassion toward them? does that have anything to do with the text's depiction of them? is that worth pushing back against?

i mean, obviously i think the answer to the last question is yes. you should try to understand the context of odysseus' actions, but you should also try to understand the actions of the slaves, even though (and especially because) the text cares about them less. you can interrogate how it portrays and what it believes about power. the odyssey is thousands of years old; it can take it

[lapdogchase]

sometimes i forget most aro people are aro in the "dont/rarely feel romantic attraction" way because im aro in the "dont/rarely feel romantic attraction and also i think we need to restructure society and probably get rid of marriage" way and i'm deep in the trenches of Thinking about it that i forget that's not like the default position for most people not even for most aros

[thatfattytoni]

Belly rubs required

[theodysseyofhomer]

i've noticed that when people attempt to handle the horror of the hanged women in the odyssey with care, there is an impulse to make penelope sympathetic to them. one problem with this is that i've read the odyssey, and she clearly isn't, but more tellingly: we know that she used to favor melantho, but any care she had for her has been shoved firmly into the past tense since melantho put a toe out of line. because melantho isn't a real daughter, she's a slave. because this is an issue of class, not female solidarity.

whatever penelope may believe about herself, she is not capable of caring for enslaved women in any meaningful way. this also goes for the rest of the slave-owning class in homer, and probably homer himself (if for the sake of brevity you want to call "homer" a "self"), which i bring up because i think you have to understand the perspective of the text to challenge it. but i notice this problem particularly with penelope because i find her complex and fascinating and i want other people to find her complex and fascinating and give her her dues, but i simply do not think you can do so by making her care about women she owns.

[inc0mple]

The Peris Ravenell Post: why you should read Keys Are People Too for this soggy excuse of a man

This is a lengthy post, which is why I added the… thingy, whatever it’s called… but I promise promise it’s entertaining and it also took me like two days to put together when I’m supposed to be writing Chapter 120. That chapter’s sad, okay, I need to get out the feels by bullying Ravenell some, aight.

I recommend at least scrolling through. Especially if you know nothing about Keys Are People, Too. And also if you do.

Okay, first things first:

THIS IS WHAT PERIS RAVENELL FROM KEYS ARE PEOPLE TOO LOOKS LIKE, OKAY

I have tried to draw him on a multitude of occasions and it's given people misconceptions. He does NOT look like Abraham Lincoln, he does NOT look like a twink, he is NOT a himbo. He's just a stupid perpetually bewildered man. AND THIS IS THE ALWAYS AND FOREVER REFERENCE FOR HIS APPEARANCE

Ok thanks. NOW:

If y'all are on the fence about reading Keys Are People Too PLEASE, READ IT FOR THIS MAN

I HAVE A LIST OF REASONS FOR WHY HE IS THE BEST WORST

Reason 1: He Has Iconic Moments

This man is the most stupid, inconvenient man to ever exist. He is perpetually confused and perpetually confusing. The worst part is he wasn’t even supposed to be, he was supposed to be a background character without hardly any substance. Well he’s still gossamer, in ways, but he has also muscled his way into the plot for no reason other than to DRIVE CHASE CRAZY and provide a character foil to… *checks notes* is this supposed to say “the monkey”???

Someone (me) is unable to track these down at the moment so check the comments for iconic moments (comment your favorite Ravenell moments do my dirty work pleeeease)

Reason 2: We Love To Roast Him

So if you’re in the fan server or the AO3 comments you might not understand this completely, so let me indoctrinate you into the objective best view of Peris Ravenell: in that he is a pathetic, wimpy, soggy man and we love him for it. He doesn’t know how to dance. He doesn’t know how to cook. If his wife actually liked them they would be the epitome of girlboss/boyfailure. He’s like if margarine was a man. “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Better.” Except one look at him and it’s very easy to believe.

These are so easy to rattle off. I could go for hours.

And screw you, maybe I will.

So... yeah. It's the funniest thing ever. That is in fact, fact.

Reason 3: We Ship Him With Tree Guy From "Love Between the Christmas Trees"

If you have not read “Love Between the Christmas Trees” by proseburia on AO3, you are missing out. Not only is it a very well written and funny story, it includes Ravenell’s one, always and forever love, Tree Guy.

His name is Nick. We don’t call him Nick.

Prose’s story revolves around Chase and Deacon going into a Hallmark movie style book, in which they meet Chase’s character’s love interest, Tree Guy—a lumberjack who loves all things to do with Christmas and his hometown. Like Ravenell, Tree Guy is so straight he can hardly turn corners.

Naturally this means we head-canon them as secretly in love forever and ever, the bromance of the century, a duo so dynamic NASA wants to study it.

I even started making fanart of them, but… I stopped. Because I got lazy.

*REMEMBER, RAVENELL DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THIS! HE LOOKS LIKE THE FIRST IMAGE IN THIS POST! DO NOT TRUST ANY OF MY OTHER ART LMFAO

The name for this incredible, very valid ship is Sap Duo. They are called this because tree sap, and also Ravenell as a person is sappy. It’s perfect. They’re perfect. I know.

Also, here’s a link to Prose’s story, if you wanna go read it :3

Reason 4️⃣: He Has Fanart (that Mari made)

Lul. Look at this guy.

Reason 5: The Monkey

Ravenell’s number one nemesis in Keys Are People, Too is a monkey by the name of Jaabu that belongs to Buddy’s character, Lady Spicula. Jaabu hates the duke for no discernible reason and will go to any length to wound the duke’s pride (and sometimes just wound him in general), out of apparent personal enjoyment. She also often seems to embody the audience in their frequent desire to throttle Ravenell, so I’ve been told. (I think it’s loving?)

I illustrated a very good, very effortful depiction of the two’s usual relationship. Please view below. I’m not responding to hate mail for emotional damage over the sheer beauty of this artistic rendition. Please forward it to Jai, they wrote In Sepia after all.

Reason 6: He Is On The UQuiz For Princes (that Mari also made)

A quiz for canon Cinderella Boy Princes… and also one non-canon duke-failure!

Pretty on the nose.

She has also made fanfiction for that man, which is what the illustration is from. I… don’t know if she’s okay.

Reason 7: Flavenell

That’s it that’s the section. @lilliferwashere this one’s for u

Reason 8: He Has Good (?) Reviews

⭐️⭐️⭐️ "3/5 man. Good at fighting, probably, but bad with women most of the time. Very troubled man, so I can't give him too low of a score. That feels too mean. Monkeys are really drawn to him for some reason though and that just seems like a health hazard. To him, mostly" - @leejeann (author of So Shaped By the Chances, Viva La Short King, Notable Anti-Fluddy-er)

⭐️⭐️⭐️"Arrived soggy. Extra star for freeing the slaves — oh wait no that’s Lincoln. Well a four score or better is outta reach for Dukey. Mediocre at best." - @theautumndream (author of A Glitch Apart, Wanted For Several Photoshop Crimes, Lowkey Likenapple)

⭐️⭐️⭐️ "3/5 stars: I broke my leg and he started crying. He was so focused on how much it hurt him emotionally I forgot I was hurt and carried him back to the castle" - @mysteriousmonty (Also Finny (Allegedly), Bookbinding Enthusiast, Art Challenge Perpetuator

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ "5/5 stars: I love him dearly. He's an absolute mess. I hope to get him a job where his actions affect absolutely nothing and no one where he also feels fulfilled." - @jaistashu (author of [Redacted for emotional damage] and some other ones, Certified To Know Your Stuff Better Than You Do, An Honest-to-God Baja Blast To Be Around)

⭐️⭐️⭐️ "In my opinion, he’s just A Guy™. His personality is very wet feeling, but it’s not bad. He tries his best, but he’s also a little… dumb, sometimes. He’s not the most intelligent, as in he has little common sense, but he is trying his best, which I appreciate. Peris Ravenell is a fantastically written character, and I appreciate him and his endless trying his best. He was quick to change his wording to include woman. I very much appreciate that. His upbringing wasn’t the greatest, and I understand that. He’s trying to navigate life without a proper parental relationship. He’s thrown into the world of royalty and dukedom very quickly, and he’s trying his best to navigate it. He’s a mess, albeit a wet mess, but he’s trying, and I appreciate that. Minus two stars for being an uncle’s boy." - @spookieee28 (author of Bed Bath and Hbeyond, Four Theorist, Donut)*

⭐️ "Overscoring him will only make you disappointed. You need to know that his appeal is not in how great he is. He's just a guy in the wrong genre. He's not a hero, he's just a mess. If someone got isekai'd into a murder mystery they had no brains or courage to solve. He just wants to be at the end of the book. He wants everything to be lovely without any effort. And he deserves it. He was born to be everyone's favorite useless uncle. The butt of family jokes but he loves the affection. Like watering the ugliest plant you've ever seen. 1 of 5 Stars. Would you recommend him? Yes." - @xiaomao-ai-wo (author of Unallied Queens, Sticky Note Enthusiast, Either Stalter Or Waldrorf We Aren't Sure)**

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ "Duke Peris “Dukey” Ravenell review:

Duke score: 2/5

He kinda sucks at it. Mostly stands around waiting for Galeus to tell him what to do I think?

Guy score: 5/5

Put this man in a JAR so that I may study him. Simultaneously a carefree goofball and the soppiest, saddest man to have ever existed. Just trying to have a nice time due to being born in Nice Time Land but The Horrors won’t let him. A little misogynistic with it but he pays for his crimes with monkey torture.

Overall score: 4/5" - @proseburia (author of Love Between the Christmas Trees, Lab Rat in Training, Sap Duo Shipper)

⭐️ “Peris Ravenell is as suspicious as a [REDACTED] and just as [REDACTED]. Overly clingy and also overly needy of compliments and acknowledgement. A follower, not a leader. No ability to read a room. At all. Whatsoever. Makes little attempt to think for himself and no attempt to [REDACTED]. Leaves that for [REDACTED] and then wonders why [REDACTED]. Likes [REDACTED], has a temper at times, has a weird thing about [REDACTED]. Enjoys [REDACTED] just to [REDACTED] (they'd already [REDACTED]). Extremely loathed by middle aged etiquette teachers and monkeys. Little man who wants to be a big man when he grows up. 1 star out of 5.” - Shadows_Mirror (author of like half the CB fanfiction on AO3, Registered Dukey Hater, Was Not Told She Could Not Include Spoilers)

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ “I want to put this sopping wet beanie baby of a man under a microscope and study him. I hate him and I love him and I hate that I can’t decide which one it is. 5/5” - @lilliferwashere (author of Sunshine and Saccharin, Fluddy’s True Love, Pigeon Handmaid)

*"Canonically married to Deacon" she says. Uh huh.

**It should be noted that both Mari's name and profile picture on Discord are about Duke Ravenell.

In Conclusion

plsplsplsplsplsplsplssss

XOXO, Inco

[wifegideonnav]

honestly the worst part about being in the tlt fandom is that now im so fucking spoiled for Girl Content. like i go engage with other fandoms of mine now and im like oh yeah lol people fucking hate women. oh yeah lol no there isn’t nearly as much content of my favorite character as angsty boy number 12. hmm. fuck.

[thatfattytoni]

So desperate to be played with

[princyvish]

deuceace yuri my sibling wanted me to draw..

[theodysseyofhomer]

odysseus and penelope's slaves: a primer.

eurycleia: odysseus' childhood nurse, as well as telemachus'. her backstory is briefly mentioned (book 1): she is the daughter of ops, bought by odysseus' father laertes when she was young. specific mention is made that laertes never slept with her, in order to keep peace with his wife anticleia. (her name has the opposite meaning of odysseus' mother's.) at the time of the odyssey she is old, and among named slaves has probably been with the family the longest. she is the only character who recognizes odysseus unprompted (and he threatens to kill her about it). they trust her heavily throughout the plot to kill the suitors; afterward, she handpicks the other enslaved women who have slept with the suitors, so that odysseus can execute them. if i were to beg for one thing, it would be that you consider what living in close proximity to her owners for so long might do to her psychologically, and how her experience with laertes might skew her view of the "disloyal" women.

eurynome: another older woman who attends penelope (and eventually odysseus).

hippodameia and autonoe: two younger slave girls who attend penelope.

actoris: a slave penelope mentions once (book 23) as the only person besides her and odysseus who knows the secret of the olive tree bed, because she used to guard their room. actoris was given to penelope by her father. it's possible that she's already dead by the time of the odyssey, as she never appears in person.

the unnamed traitors to penelope: three times in the odyssey, we hear the story of penelope unweaving a shroud for laertes at night to hold off the suitors. two of those times the suitors tell it, and say that a female slave told them the truth of what was going on. later penelope tells the beggar-who-is-odysseus, and she says that they caught her in the act with the help of her slave girls.

dolius, his unnamed sons, and their unnamed mother: dolius is another slave given to penelope by her father (book 4). now an old man, he seems to look after odysseus' father laertes, who no longer lives in the main house. father of melantho, melanthius, and six other sons by a sicilian woman who also cares for laertes. it is unclear whether she is the mother of all dolius' children, or only the six sons present in the farmhouse. dolius' first and last appearance on page is in book 24, when he greets and kisses odysseus; in the text, he never learns that odysseus has executed two of his children.

melantho: the daughter of dolius, who penelope raised "like a daughter" and pampered (book 18), though clearly only to a point. she is sleeping with the suitor eurymachus (also book 18). the text doesn't offer insight into how she actually feels about eurymachus.* she has two scenes, and in both insults the beggar. both odysseus and penelope berate her and call her a dog. melantho is often assumed to be the one who betrayed penelope's weaving ruse to the suitors, but this is never stated in the odyssey.

[*EDIT: the translations i have read and have on hand to check (fagles, wilson, fitzgerald, lattimore) describe melantho variously as sleeping with eurymachus, making love to him, being his lover, or being his sweetheart. to me, these words indicated an action or a role rather than her internal feelings or state of mind. but there are also translations that say she loved him. the greek phrase in question is μισγέσκετο καὶ φιλέεσκεν—the former word seems undoubtedly sexual, and the latter derived from phileo, which also does, or can, denote love or affection. this is basically the extent to which i am able to discuss the greek, but as far as i can tell, both translations (sexual or non-sexual) are valid here. it's ambiguous.]

melanthius: the son of dolius and brother of melantho, a goatherd who sides (vehemently) with the suitors. it is said that eurymachus is his favorite (book 17). he insults the beggar and eumaeus multiple times as well. he is present for the bow contest, helping the suitors, and when the slaughter begins, he brings them armor and weapons. odysseus orders the two herdsman on his side to tie him up, hoist him into the rafters, and torture him. they leave him tied until after the fighting, when "the men" (presumably odysseus, telemachus, eumaeus, and philoetius) cut off his nose, ears, and genitals to feed to the dogs, then chop off his hands and feet.

the unnamed hanged women: twelve (out of fifty) enslaved women whom eurycleia handpicks for death, because they were sleeping with the suitors (according to her, book 22). all the enslaved women are hiding during the slaughter; afterward, eurycleia goes to them, calls the twelve, and brings them to odysseus, who has them clean up the corpses and blood. odysseus means to execute them with swords when they're done, but telemachus decides to hang them instead, specifically to deny them a clean death. melantho is presumed to be one of these twelve. like with her, the text offers no insight into how they feel about the suitors.

eumaeus: a swineherd with an extensive backstory told in book 15. his father ctesius was the king of syria, but his enslaved nurse ran away and took him with her, intending to sell him, when he was too young to know better. she died on the ship, and laertes bought him in ithaca. like melantho, he was brought up there by the queen, in proximity to odysseus' younger sister ctimene. when they were older, ctimene was married and eumaeus sent to the country. he is well-off enough to own a slave of his own. in the odyssey, eumaeus personally takes care of the beggar, tells him all about the situation in the palace, and tries to protect him from the suitors, though he is openly skeptical of anything the beggar has to say about odysseus. when telemachus returns to ithaca, it's eumaeus he goes to first, greeting him like a family member. odysseus finally trusts his identity to eumaeus right before he wins the bow contest. he promises to give him a wife, wealth, and a house near the palace (and freedom, implicitly? unsure). eumaeus participates in the slaughter, the torture of melanthius, and possibly the executions. if i were to beg for one thing regarding eumaeus, it would be to consider how often in ancient literature, the only enslaved characters who are portrayed with dignity or sympathy are those who were, at one point, nobility.

mesaulius: a slave who serves and cleans up after eumaeus. eumaeus traded for him while odysseus was away, with his own money (book 14).

philoetius: a cowherd and overseer. like eumaeus, he is kind to the beggar and expresses loyalty to odysseus. he says that he would have run away, except that he still holds out hope for odysseus' return. odysseus reveals himself to philoetius along with eumaeus and promises him the same things (wife, wealth, a house). also participates in the slaughter, torture, and executions.

medon: house slave who has become a favorite of the suitors, but reports on them to penelope (book 4). telemachus tells odysseus to spare him (along with phemius, the bard) due to medon caring for him when he was young. medon then comes out of hiding to corroborate this and profess his loyalty. toward the end, medon hears the people of ithaca assembling to avenge the suitors and tries to discourage them, saying that he personally saw a god helping odysseus.

-

a lot of other unnamed slaves are mentioned in passing. i love the passage in book 20 when odysseus overhears an enslaved woman grinding grain as she prays to zeus for relief from the suitors. to odysseus, this is an omen, but it's also a very human moment which has nothing to do with him. there are more like this; i couldn't include all of them.

i wrote this up because i see a lot of people who are more familiar with retellings of the odyssey than the epic itself getting interested in these characters, often without really understanding a) that they are enslaved and b) how they function in the odyssey. both those things are important to grasp, if you're going to question both the assumptions of the cultural world of the poem and many knee-jerk modern responses to it—including what is, or isn't, deemed suitable in a retelling.

[butterflysonnets]

absolutely insane that mike literally p a n i c k e d when will was like "well what about us?" because will wasn't even really making things gay he was honest to god just inquiring about the state of their estranged friendship and wondering why mike didn't make time to talk to him when they're supposed to be best friends but MIKE was the one having an aneurysm like "🏳️‍🌈⁉️ W H AT!!"

“WE'RE FRIENDS” “i know mike” “WE'RE!!! F R I E N D S!!” “right so why don't you call me — ” “I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND” “… that in no way answers my question"

[notbecauseofvictories]

I was sitting in my hostel's common room (journaling and absentmindedly eating dinner) and tripped and fell into a two hour discussion with a British man who happened to be sitting there as well. We discussed international politics and I managed to hold my own---who knew I had this many opinions about the ICJ? Also he kissed my hand afterward, which has to be the most charming thing to happen to me in recent history. Now I'm sweetly cradled in wine bed and listening to a recording of the opera I wanted to see...it's okay, actually. Everything is wonderful.

[gutlessbarbara]

I’ll take their strap like a good girl ‧₊˚🎀✩

(yes, I added Thomas Hewitt cause

he’s a butch lesbian in my mind, fuck off)

[sailormoonsub]

Do you think rei would still feel like she doesn’t need to be romantically involved if she wasn’t a senshi?

Rei's "I don't have time for romance because I am dedicated to my work" strikes me along similar lines as Ami's "I'm not interested in dating because no one can live up to my crush Albert Einstein," i.e., a teenage girl's excuse for not being interested in boys

I think Rei's loyalty to Princess Serenity is very real, but also conveniently allows her to rock that ace lesbian lifestyle with minimal judgment

[thatfattytoni]

Oh so fat

[beecreeper]

I know that @bharv mentioning they wanted smut for their birthday was mostly a joke but... 👀

This is based on their fic Control which you all should *absolutely* go read and then also read all of their other fic

Hearts version and link to full under the cut!

Heart-less version here