#green stan nonsense

[horizon-verizon]

Honestly as a neutral party I would prefer Jaehaera living to Daenaera being introduced. Jaehaera is an innocent, mentally disabled child and her death is needlessly cruel. Her death is the least plot relevant of all of the child deaths that have happened in the dance and it's reasonable for people to want that changed since it comes off as pointlessly cruel. Killing Alicent or even just focusing on her imprisonment more is enough to show that the greens have paid for their betrayal. At least Daenaera can still be introduced and do something else in the narrative even if she doesn't marry Aegon.

I've already explained why Jaehaera's death was plot relevant HERE and HERE.

A)

Daenaera's entire narrative purpose was to marry Aegon and have his children to propagate the Targ line AND to become part of Aegon's mental rehabilitation from the effects of the civil war and watching his own mother get eaten burned/alive by a dragon. This is also reason why she's a fan fav in the first place; it's seen as a noble undertaking to some and a way for the Targs to move away from the greens finally. What other narrative use would you have her have?!

We can't bring up how after the War of the Roses the two fighting houses (Yorks and Lancasters) were successfully brought together in marriage to justify Jaehaera marrying and having a family with Aegon. Because:

Elizabeth of York wasn't disabled like Jaehaera

neither her nor Henry Tudor were little kids when they married

this is a fictional tale that, while modeled after some real events and people, is using them as springboards for a specific, purposefully created "message" unique to the author's

and imagine what it would being pregnant several times really be like for a very mentally incapacitated and traumatized girl like her?!!

Much less the other traumatized boy who's to be her husband? What the consummation and all the...impregnating times looked like?! Then, imagine what the family life would have been like, with these parents unable to ever connect thus the resentment is worse and their kids seeing that?

This doesn't justify Unwin Peake murdering Jaehaera, but no she never should have been married off to Aegon or anyone in the first place and that was not Unwin's doing but a larger group's--Aegon's council/patriarchal feudalism. This is what GRRM's trying to tell you, stop resisting it.

B)

I can believe that it is the way she died and the other context of so much violence men and adults perform against women and girls in this world is what really offends people enough for them to say that somehow, this a narratively irrelevant death. Because they're just that horrified.

The feelings are valid. But the action to erase the significance of the death is not valid. You definitely can wish for a much less violent one, like a poisoning that puts her to sleep or something. The death is supposed to be tragic and make you feel that it wasn't deserved, was horrible, etc. Because it was all those things.

And to say such an untrue thing as "not narratively relevant" also leads me to suspect that some people don't like Jaehaera's death either bc they just:

wanted the greens to win in some way bc they favor them and their cause (my second linked post)

you--knowing that Daenaera will likely be black in the show IF they ever get to the Maiden's Ball--go so hard for Jaehaera bc she at least is a white girl in the universe of HotD

want excessively centrist politics to sway the story at the expense of actual understanding of why we should change and upend the status quo entirely (here the feudal entrapment of girls and women); deny a reality, discourage learning to the oppressive status quo can prevail [on this trend of neutrality]...the truth is the villains/antagonists were always the greens

AND/OR, are avoidant of facing ugly, sordid truths of oppression because they are close to it in real life and haven't found ways of separating that from collective understanding of oppressive systems/coping mechanism

Look anon, Alicent's imprisonment doesn't make up for mass death. Because it's not even just about Alicent as the individual, the grandmother, the mother, etc. It's the effect of her actions on a population. Jaehaera was one of many girls Otto AND Alicent endangered (another being Halaena). Though her actions became something much bigger than her & things went out of her control, that doesn't stop them from being hers AND having affected thousands of lives. Her main aim was to accrue power through her kids and grandkids--who she chose to risk by usurping Rhaenyra and beginning the war--the consequence is she loses said kids and grandkids through other's similar ambition. Again, bc even though those kids were noble and were supposed to be relatively safe, because they are all technically heirs or adults around them can use them accrue power (whether by killing them or through marriages or whatever), they were also targets. We could say similar for Rhaenyra's children, as what happens to her youngest 2; all of them in one way or another die because they were or could be used. however, they AND the greens' kids were all safer if the greens had not usurped Rhaenyra.

The greens were the aggressors and transgressors. The ones who started this war and looked for something out of it. They tried to act worse against Rhaenrya before/during the war AND the whole of Westeros before/during/after, thus they get the worse punishment and lose more than she did.

The entire point is that the greens lose everything, because they went after "everything". They lose everything, including their kids bc they relentlessly and hypocritically ran to obtain more power for themselves by attempting to exclude a woman from the position she never would have had without the will of a man.

They went on the basis that a girl/woman should not rule or become an heir before any direct male relatives...so Jaehaera was cut out of the line of succession by her own side of the family, thus she was also less prioritized, thus she was made into a baby factory for Aegon III. She became their last chance to get their blood to at least be part of the future line, but even that's dashed by a man who had similar ambitions as Otto and Alicent.

In trying to go against the king's word/an actual law, the greens also made it much more justified for someone to not care much for Aegon II's claim or authority...bc if you can so easily flout a king's word, why should you care about the guy you're trying to make king?! And using people who themselves are willing to be so dishonest creates a higher likelihood that they'd betray you, as similar to Ulf and Hugh betraying Rhaenyra. (And somehow, Rhaenyra is the only naive one when she expects people to follow through with their oaths 🙄)

Have you ever thought, anon, about those other girls who were maimed or terrorized into not appearing before Aegon III in the Maiden's Ball? Sure, most of them weren't disabled (Priscella Hogg was, I think), but what happens to Jaehaera is because she was girl in the way of a man's ambitions and not because she was disabled. What about all those Tumbleton folk, Bitterbridge refugees (the raped septas and girls as young as 8!), and riverland peasants--most of them children! Undoubtedly, you will have disabled children in those populations, anon. Why is Jaehaera's death so much more valuable than these mass deaths of also children? Remember that Alicent raised her kids to easier justify committing these atrocities. Maelor and Jaehaerys' deaths also reflect these events. Jaehaera's death was markedly different in meaning from theirs (to open up space for another girls who's being used) because she was female. In the first linked post, I talk about why and how people used Jaehaera's marriage to Aegon and how that reflects on her death being unique from her brothers' because of her gender.

GRRM comments, through Jaehaera and these girls and Rhaenyra what one pattern of F&B has: being female is dangerous because it is to be more of an object or property in lieu of self-concerned ambitious men to the point where the most vulnerable and those who cannot practice some of the same sort of agency can experience gruesome consequences--sometimes to become terrors themselves in their attempts to gain denied agency or defend themselves.

[horizon-verizon]

No. This is pretty much just a projection. Aegon the Elder was nowhere near Visenya's son (or her) level.

Visenya's #1 goal was to make sure the Targareyn dynasty was maintained and that the Targ monarch's authority would remiain the highest authority. To do this, she sought "strong" and capable leaders. Aenys wasn't strong or determined enough, so she sought to make Maegor the next ruler. And she didn't even want Ceryse hightower to marry her son initally, but Rhaena, his niece. It's only because the High Septon (Ceryse ' uncle) threatedned them that the Faith wouldn't accept the incestuous marriage & AEgon I decided to keep Targ-Oldtown relations positive that Maegor married Ceryse. Visenya either likely went along with it for the politics OR she disapproved but kept silent bc she didn't want to make Aegon I look weird OR she disapproved but eventually felt it was politically necessary enough. To make sure that the one of the most influential houses over the very institution that hated the Targs were on the Targ's side/Maegor's side. This doesn't mean she liked the Hightowers, she just knew they could be a potential great help/threat.

Therefore, no she wouldn't like Alicent, she'd just assess her on a political-need basis.

Aegon doesn't need "patching up"; he needs imprisonment, exile, and heavy therapy sessions. He also is told to not want the throne at first or any grand responsibility...Visenya would have little patience for this. She would likely wants someone who took it upon themselves to do that mental and physical labor, not someone one who needs handholding, to rule. So she'd not want Aegon the Elder to be anywhere near the throne. She'd think he's a waste of time, no matter how she felt about Alicent...because it's not about Alicent!

She also advised Aenys I to destroy the Starry Sept 2x (which the Hightowers for thousands of years patroned and have used to advance their own esteem & influence in the 7 kingdoms). Alicent is ultra conservative and religious.

The first time was when the High Septon (Ceryse's uncle) publicly condemned Rhaena & Aegon the Uncrowned (Aenys' kids who he was marrying) and said their kids shouldn't be accepted/they should be seen as abominations and not "true" heirs. The 2nd time was after some Faith-emboldened Poor Fellows tried to kill Aenys & his family:

["Sons of the Dragon"]

"She was the first non valyrian bride of house targaryen that allowed her own kids to marry each other and they all have great dragons that are loyal to them."

So? It's a house tradition. Alicent's not special for having her kids to marry bc those kids belong to House Targaryen, not Hightower. The final authority over their marriage will always be on Viserys, not Alicent, even if she did arrnage or suggest it, as proven whe she tried to give Aegon to Rhaenyra to marry and Viserys said no.

Plus, Visenya'd again perceive that the motive behind Alicent going out of her way to get her kids together as for the benefit of Aegon the Elder's claim. Just as Aenys married Rhaena and Aegon the Uncrowned for AegontU's claim. It's nothing emotional or touchy-feely goodness, nothing wholesome, just straight politics.

Plus, what makes you think she wouldn't see how "loyal" the blacks' dragons were to the blacks? The blacks who had more dragons, too? That Syrax was not loyal to Rhaenyra; that Caraxes wasn't to Daemon; that Vermax to Jace; Stormcloud to Aegon the Younger; Moondancer to Baela; Arrax to Lucerys; Tyraxes to Joffrey; Meleys to Rhaenys?! What evidence is there of the greens dragons displaying more or less loyalty to their riders than the blacks' dragons to their riders? Furthermore, if Visenya had bene alive, Aemond wouldn't have Vhagar, and the greens look a lot less impressive compared to the blacks.

"Yes rhaenyra and daemon are pure blooded targs(cos apparently thats a real term toxic anti green people use to describe them, which is just...like in this day and age really?)"

I don't Visenya would care about that...even if there are team black fans who are saying that.

"But when the civil war was happening, u can defo believe visenya wouldve wished for alicent for a daughter in law. Having illegitmate children as your heirs wouldve defo made them in alicents side."

Visenya put her own son, the second son, on the throne over the last monarch's named heir. She wouldn't care that much about bastardry, esp with one of her people being a rumored bastard (Orys Baratheon) but who still proved his loyalty to her, her sister, and Aegon several times. She created the Kingsguard just for there to a force to protect the monarch at all times. And again, she outspokenly said that Aenys recognized Maegor was the better and stronger perosn, would be a better ruler after Aenys gave Blackfyre to him. She cares about strength & determination more than the rules of who's blood is "better". Of which Aegon the Burning Man has little to none when things are just given to him. Both Maegor & Aegon I had to fight for what they wanted.

Also, no where here was it stated why she'd want Alicent specifically as a "daughter in law" when the Dance began...Visenya wouldn't even want the Dance to begin and would try to diminish Alicent's influence because she sees how far Alicent would go to get Aegon (the weakling) on the throne.

"Also aegon wears the conqurors crown, then there's aemond with vhagar and loyal daeron with tessarion and helaena a person with andal and targ blood having dragon dreams. R u kidding visenya would love that, and so would aegon i and rhaenys."

Aegon only wore the crown...because he usurped Rhaenyra and they had to do a very quick ceremony to crown him bc they knew she'd do everything to stop them. and they had to do this quickly bc Alicent failed to get people to turn against Rhaenyra before Viserys died by condemning her & her sons.

Once more...Alicent failed, so she had to do a crown-and-go with Aegon. Both in the books and the show.

Again, you make as if there were no bonds of loyalty amongst the blacks. Meanwhile, Aemond has shown, during the Dance, he had no real loyalty towards his own sister and mother.

["The Red Dragon & the Gold"]

VS

["Rhaenyra Triumphant"]

Whereas Baela tried to be by Jace's side to fight; Daemon died for Rhaenyra; Rhaenyra had been a good stepmother to his kids and he a stepdad to hers; Baela & Rhaena plotted with Alyn Velaryon to foil Unwin Peake's plan to get Myrielle Peake, his daughter, married to Aegon III. Rhaenyra's son & their brother.

Why would be she surprised with someone with both Andal & Valyrian "blood" have dragon dreams when only & any those with Valyrian blood of any "amount" can ride dragons?! Besides, HotD's Helaena's visions are not actually dragon dreams, they changed that for their show. Dragon dreams happen when...a person is asleep or unconscious. which is why they are called "dreams". Helaena just has visions, and no these are not the same as true dragon dreams otherwise we could say Melisandre's visions are dragon dreams when they clearly aren't. Both in the books and the shows.

"One thing visenya and maegor would agree on is that team green has loyalty, not only are aemond and daeron the best and most loyal little brothers a king would ask for, but no major lord ever betrayed them,while aegon ii was alive."

Aemond deadass refused to go south with Criston Cole and leave Alys Rivers or Harrnehal bc he thought that would be too cowardly....

["Rhaenyra Triumphant"]

People can fight me on this but realistically, comparing the times, visenya and maegor wouldve loved alicent, especially book!alicent.

She was the first non valyrian bride of house targaryen that allowed her own kids to marry each other and they all have great dragons that are loyal to them.

Yes rhaenyra and daemon are pure blooded targs(cos apparently thats a real term toxic anti green people use to describe them, which is just...like in this day and age really?)

But when the civil war was happening, u can defo believe visenya wouldve wished for alicent for a daughter in law. Having illegitmate children as your heirs wouldve defo made them in alicents side.

Also aegon wears the conqurors crown, then there's aemond with vhagar and loyal daeron with tessarion and helaena a person with andal and targ blood having dragon dreams. R u kidding visenya would love that, and so would aegon i and rhaenys.

She probably would think aegon needs a little patching up, which if she could, she would scold him from his dreams. Maegor would definitely think aegon is dumb but both of them would be impressed when hes sober and going to dragon battles himself.

One thing visenya and maegor would agree on is that team green has loyalty, not only are aemond and daeron the best and most loyal little brothers a king would ask for, but no major lord ever betrayed them,while aegon ii was alive.

[sihtryggr]

“They should just keep Jaehaera with Aegon and get rid of Daenaera and give Daenaera’s kids with him to Jaehaera. It's a fitting ending for the Dance to bring the two branches of the dynasty back toge-”

[horizon-verizon]

Is it just me or does TG's argument that Criston Cole is a victim of Rhaenyra seem like really demeaning? Like the fact that their argument hinges on the fact that Cole is played by a poc/is Dornish. Pretty much everything I've seen from them about that scene is how Rhaenyra, who is white, took advantage of a defenseless poc. It's just infantilizing him purely due to his race. I might be reading too much into it, after all every TG argument is them grasping at straws, but this one just really rubs me the wrong way.

@pessimisticpigeonsworld

"Infantilization":

over-simplifying explanations, using demeaning nicknames (e.g., "sweetheart" or "honey"), or suggesting that the infantilized person would not understand a topic without reason to treat a person as if they were a prepubescent child with no experience whatsoever in worldly matters treat (someone) as a child or in a way which denies their maturity in age or experience

Yes, it should be demeaning, but it is a way of them applying victimhood where there was none in either show or book. Its more uwuing him bec he's a man than PoC, as he's not PoC (the Dornish are "spicy" "whites" in-universe, "olive" skin is a trait many Mediterranean Europeans have). Even if he was, it'd still be more bc he's a man than bc he's PoC. to them.

They make as if Criston was totally helpless when he is both Kingsguard and a man where the girl approaching him is a girl in a court that some think she should never be heir on account of her gender, and women/girls both already have to fear their entire reputation being ruined by mere well placed rumors (and have less chance of marriage, bc marriage was the way they most likely could stay economically secure for their futures). Criston could threaten Rhaenyra quite easily to make some gains on her. Or get into an affair with her, sleep with her while she's inebriated, and threaten her and she'd be the one blamed by both her father ad larger society!

She'd be labeled the seductress largely, and Viserys would, like he did abt Daemon, that Rhaenyra's "desires" or "allowing" to have her virtue ruined even just by name and repute hurts herself & the monarchy. Viserys explicitly tells her the truth doesn't matter, only the image in epi 4. Really, the only good thing that we can draw from his image-loving self is how he decides to protect her and her kids…but even then a lot of it is also so he retains his chosen heir…and yet it's is true that he genuinely loves her and his grandkids [bk and show]. (What a mess)

So it's not really the same sort of infantilization people commit against grown women to make them seem weak and thus "need" a man to "guide" them, but closer to the sort of "infantilization" that is designed to give white women the "privilege" of being seen as the eternal victims who can do no wrong as well as masters of others' bodies (Cole can demand Rhaenyra to run off with him & abandon eveything bc she "owes" him; she can't request him to sleep with her when she teased him). And I mean that it mirrors this by the green stans' intent, not necessarily the nature of the infantilization that is not infantilization--green stans intend to make Cole seem helpless and cutely dumb in order to make Rhaenyra seem a predator and that become the lynchpin of her being bad for rulership. Bec she somehow reinforces all that classism, instead of Alicent/the greens reinforcing all that classist-sexism for personal, baselsss "revenge" and order-keeping.

It's the green stans doing something that I learned concerning peoples switching between ideas or phrases in bad faith to support another contradictory thing--something integral to bigoted talking points.

[nrilliree]

"Rhaenyra is not worthy to rule! The Iron Throne rejected her! The throne hurt her and Viserys, but never Aegon II! That means he is worthy to rule!"

Apart from the fact that Rhaenyra apparently cut herself so badly that she left a stream of blood while wearing armor…

People… but you know that even Aegon I was cut by the throne? You know, the guy who… well, created the Iron Throne? And he was considered one of the best kings of the Targaryen dynasty? He cut his hand when he opened the letter from the Martells.

Aegon I cut himself on the throne, but Aegon IV did not. Does this mean that Aegon IV was more "worthy" of being king than Aegon I? Or does it mean that creating a throne from a pile of sharp iron is not a good idea because you can easily cut yourself?

[silver-dragonborn]

Let's be real here, if Rhaenyra had been anything like Cersei she would have had Alicent killed the moment she caught wind of her visiting her father's chambers just shy after Aemma's death. Alicent wouldn't have had a chance to plead her case because Rhaenyra would have shoved her down a flight of stairs or hired someone to take her out. Remember, Cersei shoved her only friend down a well for the small crime of having a childish crush on her twin brother...imagine what she would have done to Alicent if she found out that her "best friend" was seeing her father, The King, behind her back.

[rhaenin-time]

This fandom has a huge problem with the willfully uneducated CHOOSING to start arguments that factor in critical literary theory and real-world socio-political issues, flaunting their ignorance, and getting angry when people point out that no, you can't just consider an "argument" equal when one side is woefully uneducated on and yet utterly confident in their 'understanding' of the matter. They'll cry that you're being rude for "implying they're stupid" and for not giving them the respect they deserve as some kind of "equal" debate partner as if it's not actually rude to demand a "debate" where their opinions based in inadequate education, often regarding either concrete literary theory concepts or real-world issues, are given equal weight.

Sure, people can whine that it sounds "arrogant" to claim that you're objectively and provably more educated on the matters at hand. But I'm pretty sure actual arrogance is required for the above demonstrated worldview.

fuck it. might as well actually call these people "too stupid to engage with" from now on, if that's all that they hear regardless.

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

hotd never fails to disappoint

[horizon-verizon]

Mind you, nowhere in the original post has OP actually claimed Alicent was a whore for "seducing" Viserys....the level of Strawman and projection is insane.

No, Rhaenyra did not have "so many options either"...if you truly understood the quality of men in Westeros, esp noble men, you'd understand that Rhaenyra had no reason to trust any man to be the sire of her kids and NOT use this secret against her or leverage their kids for his own gain. You see men today, in real life, leverage children they have with women against them to force said women to basically become their domestic slaves, and you think Rhaenyra had actual options for a bio dad for her heirs...yeah, okay.

Or perhaps you speak of her marriage tour, before she's forced to marry a gay man who apparently cannot maintain himself or follow through with sex with any woman for them to have kids/heirs to solidify both her position and Corlys' lineage. [Cont, expl below]

First of all, again, Rhaenyra had/has to choose a husband/father who she think would not try to overpower or plot against her or take whatever advantage from her position to then aggrandize himself at cost to her. even if he tried to use a husband's "rights" or claim as such to gain followers at court and then do a Catherine the Great, but better bc he'd be the father to the heirs of the woman he's usurping/forcing to abdicate. again, this is a pressure and concern that merits Rhaenyra's reluctance to marry anyone she is not even attracted to, much less trust. And in that slew of men waiitng to put their suits, forward, most were old/old men.

Secondly, we know she wanted Daemon...she did choose, or Viserys knew that she'd liekly have chosen Daemon if he allowed it.

VISERYS made the mistake of marrying her to Laenor, and Rhaenyra had to come up with another way to provide the heirs not only she, Viserys and Corlys both wanted-needed!

No, Daemon was not the age of these men. Plus Daemon, she absolutely could trust not to try to become the de facto "King", even brain-dead Condal AND full-brained-Matt has both said again that Daemon wanted Viserys' approval, not to actually rule through Rhaenyra or to be King. Daemon is trustworthy bc he is both family--as gross as that sounds, it's also why several Westerosi marry their first cousins--AND she is attracted to him. No I do not care abt show!Daemon's domestic abuse or man-child violence, and if one dares to bring up his grooming (which is not the same as domestic violence), I ask two things:

Why is it that Rhaenra, in that argument, almost always tends to come out being the one to blame for accused grooming? If you argue Daemon groomed Rhaenyra, sure, but to make Rhaenyra--the victim--the one to blame for said abuse.

Canon!Daemyra were not a pair in a domestic abuse situation and actually were a couple that worked well together. Daemon, yes, died for Rhaenyra/their kids...he could have run off and lived to be that Machiavellian ruler-thru-his-wife that some argue...he didn't. And honestly, F&B is a book that gives us details of both Rhaenyra's response to Aegon's coronation, the black council, as well as Aegon SAing a 12 yr old and "fondling" servant girls. GRRM also lets us know through Ned that Cersei is abused, before we ever get PoVs from her. If Daemon either cheated or abused Rhaenyra, the greens AND the maesters would have heard even just a hint of such (it wouldn't be hidden for long, even jus the gossip) and used it against Rhaenyra. Finally, there are thee separate occasions that show how Rhaenyra never actually felt intimidated into doing what Daemon would have and did want her to do for us to believe that she was a victim of domestic violence. Fiery relationships =/= abuse, it just means a lot of passion, maybe toxic, but not abusive. No toxic doesn't mean domestic abuse!!!! So why all of a sudden do people want or approve of Daemon maybe assaulting Rhaenyra domestically?! Bc as both rhaenin-time and kataraavatara point out, that clip we saw days ago rather shows the showrunners using DV is to use it against Rhaenyra's "authority"/strength or lack thereof and NOT to give any opportunity to the audience to emotionally/intellectually explore DV itself.

all of the issues else politics wise for a Daemon-Rhaenyra marriage is solved--their claims are "combined" as with Jaehaerys & Alysanne, as Visenya sought with Vhaena and Maegor...but better bc Raenyra and not Daemon is heir! Any idea people had about there being real "competition" is invalidated both by how Daemon sublimates his claim for Rhaenyra's by their bond, his belief that they were bringing the House to its cultural and political peak, and his hypothetical children with her (if the V boys & his daughters didn't exist bc we r thinking of no Harwin/Laenor or Laena marriages) being Kngs and/or Queens.

So, yes, Daemon was and had always been the better choice for Rhaenyra. no you do not have love for this female character, bc you'd at least acknowledge that Alicent has no right to feel comfortable with the fact that she sleep w/the SAME guy she got mad at Rhaenyra for sleeping with and used female purity nonsense to feel justified to begin to attack her for years!

Because, thirdly,

WIDOWS STILL CANNOT HAVE EXTRAMARITAL LOVERS IN WESTEROS!!!! What do you think feudal female purity is?!!!!

CRISTON COLE IS STILL A KINGSGUARD!!!! HE STILL HAS VOWS OF CELIBACY!!!!

So now all of a sudden, Criston fucking another noble/royal woman while still being Kingsguard and having all the benefits that come with it doesn't matter? So, you admit, he's breaking his own vows of his own volition, that he's been capable of it? Did the same w/Rhaenyra?! That all he really cares about is status, tying himself to a higher-born woman for that sense of power and seeming righteous even as he calls Rhaenyra a "spoiled [entitled] cunt"? Where is the ole' "Criston's vows are so important to him, Rhaenyra messes him up by intimidating him towards sex" now that Cole has willfully had sex w/the Queen dowager (who has much more power than Rhaenyra had, mind you!) even before Viserys died?! Why does he continue to stay in the Kingsguard and not just run off to wherever by himself if he cares so much about the sanctity of a Kingsguard's vows, if it is so determinate for him?

What part of "women-girls can't have extramarital sex no matter what bc their bodies aren't their own" have you refused to internalize?!!! Do you really think that the same system Alicent sincerely upholds against Rhaenyra differentiates her actions w/Cole from Rhaenyra's w/anyone who is also not her husband? Truly, ask yourself, would Otto, Aegon, JAEHAERYS care?! Would Stannis?!! What would any septon/high Septon say? And why? Bc in their fucked up system, it STILL brings up questions of the kids' paternity/the woman's faithfulness/"purity" during her marriage! Look up medieval/early mod period written stuff or Shakespeare's Winter's Tale!!! Any of Shakespeare. Yes, those same principles of female sexual purity from real life exists in Westeros, otherwise this fucking fandom wouldn't be so "bastards" this and "bastards" that or whine abt Rhaenyra being a "whore" when she only slept with 4 people in her entire life and did her best to have happiness and do her duties--reclaiming her sexual autonomy much sooner in her life. Without trying to criticize or abuse any other woman for doing similar.

The only man a woman/girl is ever licensed to have sex with is her husband!!!! Alicent came at Rhaenyra for supposedly not doing her "duty" and "sacrifice" herself...once more, the system she's parroting doesn't care if a woman is widowed, they still often use female sexuality against women to keep their bodies "secure". Alicent is still expected to ""sacrifice" her happiness under the very system she upholds!!!

they got high on that madonna-whore complex regarding rhaenyra and alicent and now they’re all scrambling to rebrand.

[horizon-verizon]

I find it strange how much hate Daemon gets from TG, while Otto seems to escape the same level of scrutiny.

🤷🏿‍♂️

Most want male primogeniture. Some think Otto was entitled to have his grandson as a king/be rewarded for his Hand service done since Jaehaerys' time, just as they argue for Alicent having a reward bc she risked her health to birth 4 kids--3 sons and a daughter--for Viserys.

(I don't much mind the Alicent bit, accept by that logic Aemma also deserved to have her child become a ruler, even arguably MORE so since she literally lost dozens of would be or infant children before AND after birthing Rhaenyra...and let's say it's bc Alicent "succeeded" by having 3/4 boys while Aemma "only" had a one girl...this is diff from what I siad bc they are arguing in favor of the idea of girls < boys AND that, actually, women should risk their bodies to be breeders for men, bc if you say they are "rewarded" for that, the breeding systems in place are actually valid and "not that bad", even good & necessary, so the women who "prove" their worth and give birth to mainly or only boys are intrinsically "better" than those who don't....which is sexist and self defeating if you really wanted to support or justify Alicent as a human being. Again, you'd just be relegating her as a breeder machine, not a human.)

Which is funny, bc they still will wax poetic abt Jaehaera shouldn't have died, but cont to deny that Otto's ambition basically led her there and that they are really just supporting the same behavior that killed her.

Also, they hate that their favs are foils of black members in numerous different aspects at diff times: Daemon v Aemond (general), Rhaenyra v Aegon (general). They hate that at any time one could refer to Aegon's having a 12 year old "paramour" confirmed by Mr.I-hate-Rhaenyra Eustace whenever they try to say Daemon's a p*%dp*ile; that I can pull up the exact moment Aemond decided flaming the Riverlands was the natural thing to do instead of rescuing his sister and mother, deciding to not share the "glory" with Daeron so he didn't go south with Criston, yada yada. Because it all ruins this impression and lie they try to promote that the greens were "messy but close", which is what Rhaenyra and Daemon were. They hate they can't really appropriate Daemon's "cool" (yes, even with many in the fandom not TG who also hate him, it's just fact that he's one of the more accomplished and impressive characters of this history/book) believeably.

But perhaps most obviously, they try to say Alicent is Rhaenyra's one true love, was only looking out for her, was a perpetual victim and non-abuser, was her lesbian, Saint Mary moral "guide"...inspired by the show. And contrast her to Daemon in order to ignore all the true abusive things she did in canon to the same women they actually despise.

It's a maelstrom, up in their minds.

[fromtheseventhhell]

Not Alicent’s stans hating on Daenerys for murdering Mirri Maz Duur and calling her a white feminist, when TV Alicent tried to murder Mysaria, a woman of color, and burned her home and establishment.

Mysaria is a woman of color and former slave who is trying to save enslaved and lowborn children and have the fighting pits Alicent’s son likes to hang around in closed and abolished, while Alicent is giving her son ABSOLUTE power.

The pretend activism flies out of their bodies whenever it's something that can make their faves look even slightly bad 😭. And they don't even try to make excuses for it they just outright don't acknowledge it. They need to keep Alicent a poor, helpless perpetual victim or they can't cope. She can never cause harm, and if you claim she does you just hate women! Never mind that she was in a more powerful position than Dany was in AGOT and her actions actually have the implications that they project onto Dany. But no...Alicent is a child bride so you can't hold her accountable for anything and Dany being a child bride excuses nothing. They can't even pretend to be consistent over what they want to clutch pearls about.

[zepskies]

Lost on You - Part 8

Pairing: Soldier Boy/Ben x F. Supe!Reader

Summary: 1983 is a big year for you. You’re finally chosen to join the ranks of Payback, led by the most (in)famous supe in the world: Soldier Boy. He’ll never admit that he’s trying his damndest to figure you out. You’ll never admit that he’s actually growing on you. But the problem with this game is deciding who’s the predator, and who is prey.

AN: Here we go. Diving into Nicaragua, and beyond…

Song Inspo: “Who’s Crying Now” by Journey

Word Count: 4K

Tags/Warnings: 18+ only. Violence, implied torture, heavy angst (and a twist ending).

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Part 8: For Whom the Bell Tolls

March 1984

When you got into Payback, you didn’t sign up to be part of a war. You knew you weren’t a soldier, and frankly, the rest of you had no business being here either. This was a CIA base, being run by a no-nonsense officer, Grace Mallory. You had no intention of getting in her way.

Nicaragua was hot and surrounded by jungle, not exactly conducive to a leather suit. You kept to the shade by yourself and watched Swatto, Ben, and Gunpowder makes fools of themselves after Grace tore them a new one. You respected anyone who could go toe-to-toe with Ben without even flinching, especially as a non-supe.

Then again, he had poured on his usual “charm.”

“You know, with a figure like yours, you are wasted down here,” he said.

You rolled your eyes. Grace didn't even give him the time of day. Stan chimed in, presumably to explain Vought’s apparent “partnership” with the U.S. military for this mission. Ben walked away from her, barely glancing in your direction along the way.

That suited you just fine. Things had been frosty between you two for the past month, but as long as you stayed out of his way, he didn’t butt into yours.

Days later, you wanted nothing more than to go home. Sleeping in a tent was not your bag, and especially not using the restroom outdoors. Would it be considered desertion if you booked a flight home right now?

You escaped your tent with a huff, swatting mosquitos as you went. You’d tried to take an afternoon nap, but who could sleep in this heat?

“Not exactly a luxury suite, is it?” Black Noir said. You jolted, realizing he was standing just a few feet away without his mask on. It was refreshing to see his face, but you were still a bit sour toward him.

“Oh, you’re talking to me now?” you said dryly. You began walking toward the mess tent. Noir joined you.

“Well, it looks like you’re done playing your little game,” he said, raising his brows meaningfully at Soldier Boy. He seemed to be trying to chat up Mallory again.

Good fucking luck there, you thought. She already looked bored.

You turned to Noir with a flat look.

“We’re all playing a game, Irving. Just at different levels,” you said. “For example, what were you talking to Stan about?”

You’d seen them a couple of hours ago, hidden behind a fortified stone wall. Noir stopped walking. You were curious enough to follow suit.

“Something that could change everything for all of us,” he said. “You included.”

Your brows knitted together. “What’re you—”

Shots rang out in the clearing. Noir covered you when a grenade blasted the ground just a few feet away from you.

"You okay?" he asked in concern. You nodded shakily. He steadied you with a reassuring hold on your arms.

“Come on!” he said.

“What’s happening?” you exclaimed over the noise. You were terrified, and you definitely weren’t trained for this.

You let Noir lead you through the camp. When men in faded green uniforms came at you with guns, he took most of them out. You managed to duck under a man’s gun and touch his face, compelling him to sleep.

“There you are!” said Countess. She had the TNT Twins and Mindstorm in tow. For once, you were relieved to see them.

Finally you made it into a clearing where Ben was fighting with his shield at the ready. He punched out another enemy soldier who fell to the ground. He turned to see you, and then the others in your team beginning to surround him. You frowned in confusion and looked at Noir.

“What’re you doing?” you asked in worry. He glanced at you, but didn’t answer.

“What the fuck is this?!” Ben said angrily.

“Something we should’ve done a long time ago, you piece of shit,” Noir said, his tone icy and determined.

The TNT Twins attacked first. It managed to knock Ben to the ground. You were frozen in shock when Countess and Mindstorm joined in, along with Noir.

“Stop!” you said, but no one heard you. What the fuck is happening?!

They had Ben going for a minute, as their triple teaming managed to keep him on the ground…just not for long. With a grunt, he shoved them all away with a show of strength.

“Sirena!” Noir finally called to you, his gaze imploring you to help them. 

“No, stop!” you shouted back. You couldn’t watch this fight happen again. Because this time, Ben would kill him. He’d kill all of them.

You headed for Ben and Noir, but a gloved hand stopped you. It grabbed your wrist and turned you around, right into Countess’s waiting fist. You cried out and stumbled, but you found purchase on one of the stone walls. Before you could recover, she grabbed your shoulders and kneed you hard in the stomach.

Shit… You tasted blood when you went down, heaving for breath. She packed one hell of a punch in those little gloved fists.

“Been waiting for this, bitch,” she hissed from above you.

The second she got close enough, you grabbed her by her long hair and punched her as hard as you could in that fake-ass nose. Then you kicked out with both feet into her stomach. She doubled over and fell back on her ass.

You managed to roll and stumble onto your feet. You glanced over quick and saw that Ben was beating Noir within an inch of his life.

“Ben!” you shouted, wanting to stop him, but that was when Mindstorm stepped in front of you. His eyes met yours, and it became a battle of wills as he tried to shove you deep into the darkness of your inner world.

You could play mind games too though. You fought his hold, with every scrap of your consciousness, and you even managed to take a few steps forward. If you touched him, it would be over. As a man, he wouldn’t be able to withstand your own powers.

And your plan might’ve worked, if Countess hadn’t walloped you hard from behind.

When you woke, the bare room was bright with florescent lighting and cold beyond belief. You shuddered. You were no longer wearing your supe suit. Instead, you’d been dressed in some kind of gray hospital gown and a pair of woolly socks, stripped of even your boots. At least you still had underwear.

You uncurled yourself from the thin cot you were laying on. The room held little more than a prison cot, a toilet, and a sink. You let out a shaky breath.

Where the hell…

You got up slowly, mindful of your aches and pains throughout your body. The back of your head was throbbing too, courtesy of Countess, you slowly remembered.

That fucking bitch.

There was a door with a small glass windowpane. You tried to twist the handle, but of course it wouldn’t budge. You peered out of the window and saw a long hallway. There was a door just like yours on the opposite side with a small window.

“H-Hey!” you shouted. “Is anyone there? Hello?!”

A moment later, you heard Ben say your name, calling out to you. He sounded angry, but you were close enough to sense his relief at hearing your voice. You were relieved to hear him too, at least.

“Ben!” you said, as tears sparked in your eyes. “Where the hell are we?”

“The Russians got us,” he said, though it was heavily muffled through his door and yours.

Oh shit…

“After those cocksuckers fucking betrayed me!” he shouted. You heard a banging sound, like his fist meeting the wall.

“Did you know?” he asked in anger.

“What?” you said incredulously.

“Did you fucking know what they were planning?”

You were shocked, both at his audacity, and at the way he really thought you could do that to him. To anyone.

“How can you ask me that,” you said tremulously, “when I’m the only one who tried to fucking help you?”

It finally hit you then, where you were and why this was happening. You laughed without humor, wiping manic tears from your cheeks in vain.

“Well, look where that got me,” you said. You shook your head. “God, I wish I’d never met you.”

You almost wished you could see his face. He would probably try to be stoic, but even through the walls, you sensed the discordant impact of your words. It affected him, more than he’d probably ever show.  

“You’re saying this is my fucking fault?!” he said sharply.

“Yes! It is your fault. Because you’re too much of a mean, callous, arrogant, entitled, selfish, fucking asshole to see that everybody hates you!” you spat. 

That fell heavily between you. You didn’t regret it. It was high time this man knew the truth, about everything.

No more games.

“Oh, really. You included, huh?” Ben said. “I didn’t do shit to you.”

You gaped. “You shoved me to ground! I had bruises for days. Or did you conveniently forget that part?”

“You got in the fucking way!” he retorted. But then, he simmered down slightly. “Besides, you know you weren’t the one I was aiming for.”

And that just reminded you of Black Noir, with no small measure of guilt, and just how badly Ben had beaten him before you two were captured. You didn’t doubt that Ben had killed him.

“But you still did it, and you couldn’t even look me in the eye and apologize, like a man,” you said. “Instead, you fucked a pack of whores.”

You shook your head and tried to calm your breathing. You wiped under your eyes.

“But I guess I did bring it on myself. I knew what you were the second I met you,” you said coldly. “In fact, the only thing I really wanted from you was what you could do for my career.”

That blow landed as well. You felt his shock, deep inside.

“Is that so?” he said, less angry then. More resigned. “It was all an act, huh?”

New tears burned in your eyes. They slid down your cheeks, one by one.

“Yeah, it was,” you said. “I fucking hope I never have to see your face again.”

With a shaky breath, you turned your back to the door and leaned against it. You ignored the painful lance in your heart that threatened to overtake you, along with your panic.

For a while, there was silence. It gave you a reprieve, but it also forced you to be alone with the tumultuous thoughts circling in your head.

Suddenly, the door opened. You backed up all the way to the far wall. In stepped a man in a gray lab coat, as well as two armed guards. One of them was holding a straitjacket.

“Good morning,” said the lab coat. His English was heavily accented. “Welcome to your new home.”

“Who are you?” You tried to sound firm and unshaken, but there was no mistaking your fear as your eyes darted from man to man.

“Eisenstein Sergei. I am a geneticist, by trade,” he said. He gestured at you with a smile that made your skin crawl. “You, beautiful one. You will be part of evolution.”

“Stay the fuck away from me,” you said, even as your voice trembled.

Eisenstein gestured at the guards, who drew near you. The second you opened your mouth to sing, to scramble their minds, one of them produced an extendable stick with an electric prod on the end. He tased you until you passed out onto the floor.

As you soon discovered, Dr. Sergei Eisenstein was fascinated by supes. He wanted to figure out how they ticked, on a molecular level. So he and his team had made a deal with Vought to acquire Soldier Boy for experimentation. You were an added bonus.

For months, the doctor and his team poked and prodded, cut and burned you, testing the limitations of your advanced healing and pushing your body often far beyond its capabilities.

But they were careful. The straitjacket ensured you couldn’t easily compel any man who drew near to work on you. They all wore gloves, so they didn’t touch your skin. In some ways, their wariness was to your benefit. You were always gagged when they worked on you though, so you couldn’t sing. Eisenstein also once threatened to paralyze your vocal cords if you tried. You were too afraid to tempt him.

As rough as you had it, you were sure it was only scratching the surface of what they did to Ben.

The man was stronger, more durable. The doctor had more leeway to play with him, knowing his toy wouldn’t break.

They now kept him on the other end of the compound, since he’d broken through his first containment unit. They had gassed him with something that made him drop like a stone, putting him to sleep. You weren’t sure what was powerful enough to do it, but you didn’t want to find out.

The first time you heard him screaming, it brought tears stinging in your eyes. Your lips had trembled, and you’d rocked yourself in your cot. You couldn’t help him, let alone yourself. You were surprised to realize that you wanted to help him, even after everything he did to you—after everything you’d seen him do.

It slowly made you realize the truth in your own heart; things you hadn’t wanted to take out and examine, like muddy glass after a storm. Now, with the debris washed away, you could see what you had become, and what all your work, your scraping, your lies and manipulations had gotten you.

Nothing.

It also made you realize that you weren’t as good of a liar as you thought you were. At least, not to yourself. Not when you remembered the quiet moments between you and Ben; the times you wordlessly craved each other’s company, and you laid tucked against his side on the couch with a book while he watched a football game. Or late at night, the times when you gave into sharing a bed with him, and he stared up at the ceiling with a blunt in hand, the two of you lying naked and talking about everything and nothing until you feel asleep.  

Yes, you remembered blood and violence, callousness and cruelty toward Noir and the rest of the team. You knew that was who Soldier Boy was. That was Ben.

It was just hard to reconcile that monster with the man you’d come to know. The man who actually tried to comfort you, even though you hadn’t wanted to be comforted after that accident with a Crimson Countess fan. The man who saved you after you were beaten by a thug, and nearly worse. The man who could be funny, and charming, with hints of gentleness and affection in between.

You supposed you would never know what part of him was real.

But most of all, you remembered the things you’d said to him. You surprised yourself by feeling pinprick needles of guilt up and down your spine.

“I hope I never have to see your face again.”

 You had a feeling that you’d get your wish.

It was six months in before Eisenstein experimented with the first serum. You vomited blood.

It took his team three more years to revise. 

You started to hear voices in your head, snippets of thought instead of just sensing energies. You lied to the scientists, keeping the knowledge to yourself. They had no way to know, so why give them more ammunition against you?

The thoughts you heard were always male, whoever was in close proximity. Your powers seemed to translate them into English, but you almost preferred it to be gibberish. Mostly the thoughts were bland, disgusting, or cold and frightening in their scientific detachment, and even their entertainment…mostly when they worked on Ben. 

It made you sick. You wished you could reach out to him, if just for someone familiar to talk to. You hadn’t learned how to do that just yet. You didn’t even know if you could. You were still figuring out how to just tune it all out when you were sick of the chatter.

Regardless, they kept him too far away, so you rarely heard his thoughts. When you did, they were mostly angry and murderous. You couldn’t blame him. 

Sometimes, just being able to feel his presence, hearing the scraps of his thoughts was enough.

You were left entirely alone with your own.

April 3, 1994

You read the date on the magazine they’d brought for you with bland porridge for breakfast. The publication was in Russian, but you’d begun to pick up on certain words they said, and on the structure of numbers you saw them scribble in their notes. 

Ten years. You really couldn’t fathom it. It didn’t feel real…

Well, actually, it did today. You were almost done with the porridge when the doctor and three guards came in, one with your usual straitjacket.

“Finished then?” Eisenstein asked, nodding at your near empty bowl. “Good. Get her up.”

The command was in Russian, but by now you understood it. You still struggled. You always did. It was no use though. Soon they had you fitted in the jacket and a gag tight around your mouth, with just a couple of cattle prod stings to your side.

They dragged you down the hall farther than usual. You were confused when they passed the usual lab they so often took you to. Instead, Eisenstein opened a metal door.

Inside the room was Ben, strapped to a metal slab against the wall. He was bound in every way, and fully naked. He also had a long, unkempt beard, but you’d recognize that face even in your sleep. Your eyes widened when you met his, your breath caught in your throat. His face slackened in surprise as well.

You hadn’t seen him since before the beginning of the nightmare.

He’d barely aged at all.

The spell of it broke when you were slammed down onto a cold, shiny table. It felt hard as titanium, and you cried out at the impact.

You managed to raise your head. “Ben!”

It was muffled through the gag, but you knew he understood you. His brows furrowed. He looked up at Eisenstein in a glare.

“What the fuck is this?”

The doctor held a glass syringe in his gloved hand. He drew closer to you with slow, measured steps.

“You have impenetrable skin, yes? Hard, like a diamond,” he said to Ben. “Even inside your holes, it is…perhaps more sensitive, but still strong enough to stop further experimentation.”

Ben’s lip curled with a sneer.

“But there must be a way to get inside you,” Eisenstein said. He grabbed the back of your neck tightly, making you whimper. He held up the syringe. “Tell me now, or I will give her the serum we had prepared for you. There is good chance it may…let’s say, liquify her insides, but we will have to see. Won’t we?”

He gestured at one of the guards, who tore open the back of your gray gown to expose your back and shoulders. You screamed around the gag and struggled, even with the men holding you down. You fought Eisenstein’s grip to look up at Ben. His jaw was clenched, his eyes hard and angry.

You had tears in your eyes; they already began to slip down your cheeks. You implored him wordlessly. Ben stared back at you through furrowed brows.

Getting nothing but silence, Eisenstein sighed through his nose, and he turned to you with the syringe.

“Hold her steady.”

You struggled and thrashed in vain.

“Wait!” Ben said, through clenched teeth.

Everyone in the room paused.

Ben lifted his gaze from you and directed it at the doctor.

“My eye,” he said lowly. “Inject it in the corner of my eye.”

Eisenstein’s weathered face broke into a smile. “Ah, clever. Thank you, Soldier Boy.”

Then he pressed the needle into your shoulder, emptying its contents into your bloodstream. You uttered a pained sound at the needle going in. Again, you looked up at Ben in panic.

He tensed in an incredulous anger. “What—”

“Do not worry. It’s just a sedative,” Eisenstein shrugged.

Within seconds, you breathed out a whimper as your eyes closed on you. You went limp. The guards peeled you off the table and dragged you out of the room. It left the doctor with his favorite patient.

Ben wanted to rip the man’s arm from his socket and beat him to death with it. And that was just the latest fantasy on how he’d take the good doctor apart.

“What’ve you been doing to her?” Ben asked, in a tone that demanded. It was the first time he had spoken of you, the first time he had the courage to ask the question that so often plagued his mind.

Eisenstein sighed. “She is not as strong or durable as you, but! She has been able to withstand a good many experiments that have borne fruit.”

Ben’s glare darkened. “You’re a sick fucking bastard.”

“I am a visionary,” the doctor countered. “Can you imagine what your mutations could unlock for science? In biomedicine? Her healing abilities, though limited, could provide the cure to any number of diseases and ailments. Your longevity of life could do the same… Or if not, you will make for Russia’s greatest weapon.”

He stepped back and ushered in his assistants. One of them came with the true serum. Its contents had a light red hue. It looked like poison. Ben struggled in his constraints, grunting and resisting the hand that reached for his face.

“If you do not stay still, we will go to her next,” Eisenstein warned.

Ben panted through his nose. His hardened gaze flicked between the doctor, and the needle coming for his eye.

You heard Ben screaming before you could even open your eyes. You felt it in your chest. In your spirit.

He saved me, you realized, as tears once again stung behind your eyelids.

You also tasted cotton in your mouth. You realized it was because they had thrown you face-first onto your cot. You managed to turn your head so you at least could breathe, but you couldn’t move any of your limbs. Your enhanced healing was the only reason why you were even awake.

Ben…

He broke free.

The pain was too much. Adrenaline was surging through him, and he was able to grab one of the assistants and crush his throat. His furious gaze was set on Eisenstein next, but the fucker ducked out of the room quick.

Ben padded forward on slightly unsteady feet, ripping away the rest of his restraints from the cold metal. He stalked toward the door. Before he could reach it, a hissing plume of Novichok gas flooded the entire cell. 

His eyes rolled up into his head, and he fell to the ground. All the while, the serum was working inside him, bubbling and brewing red hot in his chest.

You were lying unmoving in your cot when Eisenstein came in to check on you.

“How is the little bird, doing?” he asked in his native tongue.

He ventured over to you carefully. In one of his hands was a cattle prod, just in case.

“They were careless,” he remarked. He set down the cattle prod to grasp your shoulders, and he rearranged you until you were lying on your back. You were still unresponsive, when the doctor knew for a fact that you should be awake by now. He had your reaction times to certain chemicals perfected to the minute.

He frowned and reached out to hold a gloved finger to your neck, measuring your pulse.

That was when you opened your eyes.

You raised up and headbutted him as hard as you could. Eisenstein cried out and fell to the ground. You followed him there and straddled him. Your hands were still bound by the straitjacket, so you had no choice.

You bent down and distracted him with a disdainful kiss to his lips.

When you next open your eyes, they were glowing violet.

You took control of his mind.

AN: 😬😬😬

Also, get ready for a whopper of a chapter in Part 9. (My favorite one of the series!)

Next Time:

Free me, you compelled Eisenstein’s mind.

He obeyed you with a vacant look in his eyes. He unhooked your straitjacket and opened the door. After you grabbed up his cattle prod, you still didn’t release your psychic hold. You ordered him forward, and for the first time you walked freely out of your cell without restraint.

Take me to Soldier Boy.

▶️ Keep Reading: PART 9

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[horizon-verizon]

To also get at these green stan people, Alicent is the one to:

suggest to Aegon II to mutilate Aegon the Younger (III) who was under 10 continuously, -- Rhaenyra's child -- so that they could intimidate Rhaenyra's remaining supporters from attacking them

tell her 8 year old granddaughter to kill Aegon III (when he as 11 or 12)

plotted Rhaenyra's usurption since she was 10 (and usurpations are almost always violent and involve killing the would be or past ruler): " “Ser Criston protects the princess from her enemies, but who protects the princess from Ser Criston?” Queen Alicent asked one day at court. The amity between Her Grace and her stepdaughter had proved shortlived, for both Rhaenyra and Alicent aspired to be the first lady of the realm…and though the queen had given the king not one but two male heirs, Viserys had done nothing to change the order of succession. The Princess of Dragonstone remained his acknowledged heir, with half the lords of Westeros sworn to defend her rights. Those who asked, “What of the ruling of the Great Council of 101?” found their words falling on deaf ears. The matter had been decided, so far as King Viserys was concerned; it was not an issue His Grace cared to revisit. Still, questions persisted, not the least from Queen Alicent herself."

be the first to look for child harm by wanting Lucerys' eye immediately with no fair investigation and all concern for her own son l, as if Lucerys wasn't just trying to protect his brother and already was absolutely bullied by Aemond for years before

said "bastards, lost in war" as if Rhaenyra's first few sons were less in value than Alicent's own sons based on the bogus and blood purist [SOURCE] notion of bastardry (not that these kids were even bastards, but we're talking about Alicent's evil ideology that moves her to dismiss children) while she was trying to negotiate with Rhaenyra simultaneously

Maelor, who was 2-3 at death, was not killed by Rhaenyra or any black. Larys Strong decided to take him and his older sister Jaehaera from King's Landing, and from there Maelor was ripped apart by a crowd not far from the Lady Caswell's castle. Rhaenyra putting out a reward for runaways -- whom Larys is the one who caused when there was no danger for them at King's Landing in the first place -- was not the ideal decision but hardly malicious or a means for Rhaenyra to actually kill her nephew). And there wasn't much else to do to get Maelor back.

Jaehaerys -- Aegon II's other son and was 5-6 at death so while a small child bot a toddler -- was definitely killed by Daemon's associate Mysaria and her men-for-hire Blood and Cheese.

However, because Alicent had a heavy hand in making Aemond as hateful, entitled to his maledom and truebornness, and psychotic as he was, she is also responsible for Aemond killing Lucerys....and I already gave a quote for how Alicent was the first one to ever act by "eye for and eye" with Aemond's literal eye (ABOVE). Daemon was acting in direct response to Aemond killing Lucerys. Same If it had been Maelor who was killed by Blood.

The blood of Alicent's children and grandchildren and Rhaenyra's children are all on Alicent because she decided to usurp someone and use their gender and, again, the bogus blood purist ideology of bastardry against her and children. She and the greens are the proponents of child endangerment, harm, and murder.

Yet Alicent tells Rhaenyra that she is acting too vengefully...

“i can’t be team black because they murdered an innocent toddler”

meanwhile team green: (TW)

[horizon-verizon]

The Greens got Aegon II to be recognized as King but their whole line was extinguished. Having Jaehaera survive and have children with Aegon III would've just made it a total Green victory.

Isn’t it enough? That’s it, Aegon II is an official monarch by history, be happy. But no, they search for imaginary bastards, complain about Jaehaera’s death. Just as greedy as their favorites. They’d rather erase the main theme of the Dance (misogyny) so they can boast about how their side won.

That's bc it's never been just abt Aegon or Rhaenyra as individuals but affirming male primogeniture's dominance. To keep this basic thing in the patriarchy's integrity and preserve the traditions of succession favored towards males. It was never about a "good" rule, either, so their arguments abt Rhaenyra being a bad ruler--as most of us knew--were false and dishonest.

[fromtheseventhhell]

I wonder if the anti racist woke gang will cheer when show Mysaria send assassins to murder the son of the sadistic serial rapist. I mean, if they are fine with Mirri murdering Daenerys’ son then I hoping to see we all on the same page having fun when Blood & Cheese happens (and lets not forget that Blood and Cheese are just two working class dudes who stood up against the monarchy, if you don’t support Blood and Cheese then you are against the smallfolk and a class traitor 😞).

#AU where Rhaenyra allows Mysaria to hunt and torture Alicent and Larys as payment for their crimes.

What's funny is that someone made a post on Twitter saying that Mirri fans should support Mysaria and they got mad 😭. Suddenly a woman of color victimizing white women doesn't have the same racist connotations. Hmmm, funny how that works. I guess justifying the death of a child is only woke when it's a child of color they can pretend is predestined to cause harm. And you just know that the same ones mocking Dany will be the first ones throwing a fit because people aren't centering their pain and acting like it's the only thing that matters. If they supposedly care so much about the smallfolk and women of color then they should have no issue with violence against the white, upperclass 🤷🏾‍♀️

[queenvhagar]

Did you see George’s blog post? I’m glad he’s speaking out against it. He sold the rights to his book just for Ryan to insult him and think he could do it better

I love that he's speaking the truth! He SHOULD be shutting down the "Green propaganda" bullshit and calling out bad writing when he sees it!

My favorite tidbits:

"Queen Helaena, a sweet and gentle soul, is much beloved by the smallfolk of King's Landing. Rhaenyra was not..."

- directly calling out that dumbass riot plotline where the smallfolk adore Rhaenyra and Meleys for starving, terrorizing, and murdering them en masse and throw fish at Alicent and Helaena

- subtle shade at Rhaenyra not being called a queen in the histories

"And there are larger, more toxic butterflies to come, if HOUSE OF THE DRAGON goes ahead with some of the changes being contemplated for season 3 and 4..."

- saying if you keep making dumb changes that undermine the story, characters, and world you WILL have nothing but a meaningless empty mess

And he is 100% right that removing Maelor was a mistake that minimizes the story and the tragedy of the Greens (and he knows it's intentional that the writers actively try to diminish Team Green and prop up Team Black).

HOTD hardcore stans can cope. We do in fact have the authority on the actual story and confirmation from the author that HOTD is a lesser quality adaptation of a good story at this point because of its nonsensical changes.