#greco roman pantheons

[rinasunny]

Canon details of Eros and Psyche tale often missed out by the retellings [Part 4]

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Many people think that Zeus/Jupiter is OoC in this tale, but that's really not the case. Aside from not trying to have intercourse with Psyche, he is very much in character. But more on that later.

Up until the fourth task Psyche got help or guidence from nature (animals and plants). As I already mentioned Psyche tries to commit suicide at the beginning of every new task, this time by throwing herself from a high tower. Now, imagine THIS VERY TOWER giving you a speech with suicide prevention PSA, instructions how to enter the underworld w/o dying (while referencing some irl locations e.g. Cape Taenarum) and low-key social commentary (a tower accuses Charon of greed, and how the poor have to save money for their own death).

The only time Eros/Cupid uses his arrow on Psyche is after her underworld quest to wake her up after Stygian sleep. However, the touch of the arrow is described as "harmless".

Speaking of Eros, Aphrodite had locked him up to prevent him from reuniting with Psyche. He escaped by flying out of a window.

I'm personally quite puzzled on why he tells Psyche to deliver the jar to Venus/Aphrodite anyway, given the content of the jar and what else his mother can do to Psyche who is still a mortal.

Though he heads to Zeus/Jupiter to arrange a proper wedding this time. Much like Aphrodite he complains about Cupid's mischiviousness and blames him for his own infidelity, promiscuity and his transformations into animals for intercourse (he acts like it's shameful for him). Still Zeus much makes a deal with Eros by asking for another beautiful girl for himself in exchange for the approval of the marriage. See? Zeus is very much in character. (Also love it implies that a person shot by Cupid is still responsible for their actions)

Perhaps another social commentary but gods must attend the wedding under the threat of being fined hundred pieces of gold.

When the old woman finished narating the tale, Lucius (the protagonist of the Golden Ass) described her as drunken and half-demented (might explain the talking tower thing lol) but he liked the tale enough to wish he could write it down (he was transformed into a donkey back then), thankfully Apuleius was more lucky than his character.

Still if you like this myth I urge you to read the original. Unlike most sources for the myths this one is prose, so quite an easy read (unless the translation is super old). An audiobook will take you about an hour or likely less if you read it yourself.

[gingermintpepper]

Someday, eventually, I will get an opportunity to talk about Celtic Apollo.

I see a lot of discussions and content (light-hearted and not) talking about Greek Apollo and Roman Apollo but y'all don't understand; it wasn't just that Greek Apollo had a second Roman Apollo hidden in his pocket, it's that Greek Apollo also has a secret third Celtic Apollo hidden behind his back like a tramp stamp he got in college and refuses to acknowledge or show to anyone.

[sarafangirlart]

I am not gay but why do male Greco-Roman statues look better than female ones?

Maybe you aren’t gay, but those sculptors probably were.

[fleur-panachee]

Dionysus made me do it. 🐆🌿🍇

[fluffymcsnuggles]

Ares/Mars another one of the ones I don't hate two years later. Yippee

[a-god-in-ruins-rises]

Which Paganism do you follow

i kinda do my own thing but it's basically a pan-indo-european syncretism.

[localfandomenjoyer]

Gotta say, the absolute best part of the Athenide AUs, especially the twins AU, is seeing how the mythos changes for the better for people like Asclepius, Dionysus and the demigods as a whole. It's just really wholesome and I'm so here for it. @chaoticdumbassrogue in particular inspired me to read the actual myths. It got me thinking about how the scope of change could be expanded to cover the older gods like Hephaestus or Ares, whose bad home lives have already happened.

What if Percy and Annabeth are reborn earlier in the timeline as children of Kronos and Rhea?

Now obviously that's an AU which will get off to a rocky start really quickly, but I think it has potential for some really nice interactions. Like, what if Percy is Zeus' older twin who is raised alongside him, giving Zeus a good influence to aspire to during the formative years of his life. Part of me headcanons that in PJO, his behaviour is a product of being raised by people who he can order about and his only example of how to lead being Kronos himself. Now imagine if he has a cool older sister (or two, if Annabeth/Arsione is also around) who can set better examples for him? Another idea is to tie them closer to Othrys. The idea that Kronos was particularly evil versus the remainder of the Greek pantheon is a somewhat modern idea, the Ancient Greeks viewed him as at least equal to the Olympians if not somewhat better, and the idea of him ruling over a Golden Age were real to them. Hesiod even wrote that Zeus eventually released him from Tartarus and let him rule over Elysium in the Underworld. He is also identified with Saturn thanks to Greco-Roman syncretism, and Saturn is straight up benevolent.

So what if, upon learning his latest child was a goddess of loyalty, he refrains from consuming her in the mistaken belief that she was incapable of betraying him? I'm just imagining Percy as the little Princess of Othrys running around with a young Pallas and Leto and getting into all sorts of mischief before helping her brother Zeus free the remainder of her siblings.

Now imagine what this means for Zeus' children, who now have a cool aunt to give them lots of affection? Hephaestus has somebody who loves him implicitly, Ares has somebody who will actually care when he's trapped in a bronze jar for an entire year, the demigods have somebody who can actually stand up to Hera and so forth.

[turquoisemagpie]

Apollo.

(First of idk how many character sheets of my interpretation of the Greco-Roman pantheon).

[yunsound]

Chinese Mythology: Investiture of the Gods and the Heavenly Court

If there is one piece of literature that can define the mythology of an entire culture, what would that be? The Bible? The Homeric Epics? The Vedas?

None of these works can encompass an entire pantheon or mythological universe. Similarly, Chinese mythology does not rely purely on Journey to the West. Two other pillars of mythology are the 封神演义

and the 山海经 (the Classic of Mountains and Seas), an old National Geography magazine with lots of myths thrown in.

There are many, many more ancient and famous works, but these three are generally very widely-known. 

I’ll be focusing on the Fengshen Yanyi (Romance of the Investiture of the Gods, or just Investiture of the Gods in general). BTW, investiture means something like inauguration, deification or promotion in case it’s an unfamiliar word.

The Fengshen Yanyi

I covered this one very briefly in my Ne Zha post, linked here, but Fengshen Yanyi was a novel written in the 16th century by Xu Zhonglin.

It chronicled (in a fantastical manner, of course) the war between the King of Shang

and the eventual King of Zhou

It’s treated very much like the Trojan War, in which different gods assist in the battle, and incorporates many classic Chinese heroes.

Since it was written fairly recently by Chinese standards (only a few hundred years ago as opposed to a few thousand years ago), it’s become one of the main sources of information on mythology and the characters within it. 

The Zhou/Shang battle itself occurred over 3000 years ago, in 1056 BCE, and lasted some fifty years. 

It’s fairly impossible to cover the events of the novel in a single post since that would be the longest post in Tumblr history, but I will only cover its premise, not its plot. Honestly, I’m not even clear on the exact details of the plot of Fengshen myself, since it’s so long and complicated.

Chinese mythology is incredibly complicated. Even the most widely-accepted versions of myths are almost guaranteed to be inaccurate to their original versions thousands of years ago. Dates, times and who’s who are impossible to determine. As such, take what I say with a grain of salt, and do your own research, as painful as it may be. This is only meant to give an idea of what’s going on.

Additionally, the Fengshen Yanyi (also called the Fengshen Bang, or Deification List/Plaque), is just a novel. Think of it as a historical fantasy novel, or the Lord of the Rings Plus. It may be very foundational today, but it’s not the end-all-be-all of mythology. This is also true for Journey to the West, which is a fictional tale!

After all that preamble, let’s begin.

___

So, the highest official is the Haotian Emperor 昊天大帝. He’s the head honcho of the Heavenly Court.

I couldn't find any pictures of the Haotian Emperor (in popular culture he's usually depicted as young and hot, unlike the Jade Emperor, who's usually depicted as an old dude). As I mentioned in my Ne Zha post, it's debated whether or not the Haotian Emperor and the Jade Emperor are the same person.

I will assume them to be different people even though it's like 60% sure they're the same person, since I already referred to the Emperor in my Ne Zha post as the Jade Emperor. As such, Haotian Emperor is higher-ranked than the Jade Emperor, who works for Haotian.

Again! Time for a SUPER LONG backstory that is essential but also not ENTIRELY relevant to the actual plot of Fengshen. Think of this as a description of how the Fengshen Yanyi happened, or like historical background behind a war.

The Heavenly Court, rather than being a loose collection of gods with one ruler like in Greco-Roman mythology, is a proper government, with bureaus, supervisors, and minimum wage office workers. As such, it’s not exactly super desirable to work for the Heavenly Court.

Sure, you get to be a god, but it’s also the equivalent of working a cubicle job for eternity. You’re also a very lowly god: most heavenly officials aren’t powerful, just old: you could even get your ass kicked by a random monkey (foreshadowing). 

Not fun.

The Haotian Emperor is feeling a little lonely and overworked. He thinks there’s not enough workers in the Heavenly Court, so he wants to do some hiring (more on this later! Keep this part in mind.)

Who’s currently up in Heaven? Well, in Daoist mythology, the Dao created one, one created two, two created three, and three created everything (道生一，一生二，二生三，三生万物). What this means is that the Dao created the foundations of the world: the Three Pure Ones, three super-old super-powerful immortals.

These three super powerful immortals are as follows:

元始天尊 Yuanshi Tianzun, or Primordial Heavenly Lord

This is him in Ne Zha 1 (2019).

After he was created, he oversaw and supervised the creation of everything else. 

灵宝天尊 Lingbao Tianzun, or Treasured Heavenly Lord

Lingbao Tianzun was created from Yuanshi Tianzun. 

道德天尊/太上老君 Daode Tianzun (Virtuous Lawful Heavenly Lord) or Taishang Laojun (High Elder Lord)

The reason he has two names is because it’s unknown if Taishang Laojun and Daode Tianzun are the same person by different names: the answer is probably, but not 100%. He is the oldest, most powerful one. He is also considered to be Lao Zi (Lao Tsu), the founder of Daoism (I sometimes switch between Daoism and Taoism, but they’re the same thing).

In the above picture, Daode Tianzun is on the left, Yuanshi Tianzun is in the middle, Lingbao Tianzun is on the right. Yuanshi and Lingbao look very similar, but you can always identify Daode since he's the oldest one so he's the only one with white hair.

However, these three, despite being at the centre of everything, are not the most powerful. Chinese mythology and Daoism are messy. Stay with me: I promise I’m getting to the actual explanation of the Fengshen Yanyi soon.

The Creation Spirit created more beings before these three pure ones. One of these beings is called 鸿钧老祖 Hongjun Laozu, or Grandmaster of Eternal Balance

Could not find a picture of him, so just imagine a super old guy with big fancy robes.

(There is another one of these beings called Nuwa, the mother of all: she essentially sculpted humans out of clay. Keep her in mind, she’s important).

This is Nuwa! Technically her name is Nüwa, it's pronounced Nyoo Wah.

He takes three disciples: the Three Pure Ones, Yuanshi Tianzun, Lingbao Tianzun, and Daode Tianzun. 

Sometimes, these three disciples are Yuanshi Tianzun, Lingbao Tianzun, and another guy called 通天教主 Tongtian Jiaozhu (Teacher of All Through Heaven, or Grandmaster of Heaven). Tongtian Jiaozhu is the one that appears in Investiture of the Gods.

Yuanshi Tianzun and Daode Tianzun (Lao Zi) create the 阐教, or the Chan Sect to teach Taoism their way. The features of the Chan Sect are that there is no one leader- Yuanshi Tianzun and Lao Zi both teach the sect, they pick their disciples very strictly and only choose the best of the best, and every single disciple must follow strict rules and live very properly.

Fun fact: I’m sure you’ve heard of the concept of Zen. Zen is just the Japanese pronunciation of Chan: Chan Buddhism (or Zen) is the most widely-practised version today.

However, Tongtian Jiaozhu creates his own sect instead of the Chan Sect because he doesn’t like the prim and proper way they do things. His sect is called the 截教 or Jie Sect. His sect takes in all manners of people under the sun and is less proper, but also smaller than the Chan Sect. 

Why do I even mention these 2 sects? Well, in Investiture of the Gods, the main conflict is between King of Shang and King of Zhou (who wants to overthrow him since King Shang is a tyrannical brutal ruler), right?

Nope! In fact, it’s really more of a conflict between the Jie and Chan sects. The Zhou/Shang war is more of an excuse to go to war. The Jie fight for the King of Shang, and the Chan fight for the rebellion (for the eventual King of Zhou).

Why use the Zhou/Shang war? Well, the King of Shang kind of sucks, so people want a way to get rid of him. Remember Nuwa, the mother goddess who created humans? She also, by the way, made pillars to hold up heaven, so she’s a big deal.

Well, the King of Shang goes to her temple to worship but gets sloppy drunk and hits on a statue of her. This is like the equivalent of Trump (or *Insert World Leader*, I guess, depends on your politics) sending a tweet saying he’s going to fuck the Virgin Mary. The King of Shang leaves a sex poem about Nuwa on the wall of her temple.

Nuwa sees this and gets super mad. She summons a 1000-year-old nine-tailed fox spirit. Fox spirits are generally seen as promiscuous sexual spirits, who disguise themselves as beautiful women and bewitch men to bring about the downfall of dynasties.

Nuwa tells the fox spirit that if she can bring down the Shang dynasty, she’ll make her immortal. (In the novel she sends two other spirits as well, one a spirit of a pipa, which is an instrument, and the other a spirit of a nine-headed pheasant, but these two aren’t as important as Daji, and they both get discovered and executed anyway).

This is the Zhiji Jing (Pheasant Spirit)

This is the Pipa Jing (Pipa Spirit), ignore the watermark, I copied this from Google. Pipa is almost like a Chinese cross between a guitar and violin. It's a very elegant and beautiful sounding instrument.

This is Daji, accompanied by a photo of the actress who plays Daji in the recent Fengshen movie series. The movies are a solid 7.5/10, pretty good but not SPECTACULAR, but Na Ran's acting as Daji is amazing. She also happens to be gorgeous!

Sweet deal! The fox agrees and disguises herself as a gorgeous war prize taken by the King of Shang. The body she inhabits is called Su Daji, who is the daughter of one of the regional lords conquered by the King of Shang. 

In the original tale, Su Daji’s father (this story is a little muddled, so read this part with a big maybe) gifts her to the King of Shang to appease him. Asshole dad. 

Another version is that Su Daji is sent away by her father for her safety and kills herself to avoid being taken as a concubine by the King of Shang- very unfortunately for her, the fox spirit inserts herself into her body to bewitch the King. (Fox spirits are generally cruel, and it’s a huge dick move to have someone use your body to sleep with your biggest opp).

When Daji arrives, she immediately catches King of Shang’s attention. He becomes absolutely bewitched by her, and spends so much time, money and thought on her that he neglects his state and begins ruling with a tyrannical iron fist. Daji, since she’s really a fox spirit, is cruel and sadistic, and invents a number of scary torture devices to torture King of Shang’s opps. 

You can Google these devices yourself. A little gruesome to repeat.

One of the most famous parts of the Fengshen Yanyi is what’s called the Deer Pavilion 鹿台, which is an example of the ostentatious and luxurious nature of the acts King of Shang did for Daji.

In the Deer Pavilion, the King of Shang builds a lake filled with good wine and constructs a forest of meat for him and Daji to lounge in. Wine pool meat forest 酒池肉林 (jiu chi rou lin) is now a Chinese saying for excessive extravagance.

The entire nation is super, super mad at the King of Shang and Daji, and decides to revolt against them. This rebellion is led by Ji Fa (the eventual King of Zhou) and Jiang Ziya, his tactician (think of Jiang Ziya as Odysseus: the clever, capable and clear-headed strategist). BTW Jiang Ziya is Ji Fa’s father-in-law, so it’s not exactly an Agamemnon-Odysseus relationship.

OKAY!!!

Remember when I said the Haotian Emperor was feeling a little lonely up in heaven and wanted some workers? Feels like a century ago. 

The three immortals in charge of the Chan and Jie sects (Yuanshi Tianzun and Lao Zi for the Chan sect, and Tongtian Jiaozhu for the Jie sect) decide they’re going to make what’s called a Fengshen Bang. 

Roll credits!

Just kidding. You wish.

As I said, Fengshen Bang means Deification Plaque, or a less proper translation is just List of Gods to Promote. What are the contents of this Fengshen Bang?

Remember when I said working for the Haotian Emperor isn’t exactly a good thing? In fact, it kind of sucks. The prerequisite for getting more workers in heaven is that whoever goes to work for the emperor has to die first and spend the rest of eternity working a cubicle job if they suck and if they’re powerful they end up like a special ops force, just with no glory or money. Who TF wants to do that?

Think of the Fengshen Bang as the Death Note of ancient China. The Haotian Emperor and the three immortal sect masters can tell that a bunch of people are going to die in the upcoming Zhou/Shang war, so they decide that whoever dies in the war will get their name put on the Fengshen Bang and die. 

There’s another interpretation that they just put a whole bunch of names on the Fengshen Bang before the war and whoever manages to not die gets their name taken off.

It can also be interpreted as Santa Yagami’s naughty list: whoever misbehaves gets their name put on as well.

Either way, it’s functionally the same: no one wants their name written down on that list!!

The two sects both don’t want their disciples to die and leave their sect weakened in comparison, so they go home to tell their disciples, listen up and don’t cause any trouble.

The war isn’t that long compared to the life of a cultivator (functionally immortal compared to only 50 years of war) so as long as you keep your head down and manage to survive you’ll be okay.

However, there’s this one dude: his name is 申公豹 Shen Gong Bao (Panther Elder Shen, where Shen is just his last name) and he got kicked out of the Chan sect for being an asshole. He’s also a panther spirit. (You may remember him from Ne Zha 1 and 2 if you watched it!)

This is a carving of Shen Gong Bao as well as his appearance in Ne Zha 1 and 2 (2019 and 2025 movies).

He decides he’s going to get some revenge on the Chan sect, so he tells everyone in the Jie sect that working for the King of Shang (remember, asshole dictator) is great: he treats all his subordinates really well, and that his bad reputation is just the Chan sect being stuffy old dudes. He wants the Jie sect to go fight for the asshole King of Shang against the Chan sect.

About half of the Jie disciples are dumb, and think that sounds great! So they descend from their halls and go to find the King of Shang.

Jiang Ziya, the rebellion tactician, anticipated this, and dispatched half the Chan forces to go help fight. The Jie disciples get their asses beat and all die.

This is a painting of Jiang Ziya. Don't question why his forehead is bulging out Megamind-style: that's just his big brain.

This is Jiang Ziya in the Jiang Ziya animated movie (2020) set in the same cinematic universe as the two Ne Zha movies. This movie kind of flopped, but I like the character design at least.

The other half of the Jie sect is like, how dare you try to beat us up! They all go down from their halls to go fight the Chan sect for revenge. Jiang Ziya prepares his troops very well, so the other half of the Jie sect gets their asses beat as well.

Oops! Now the Jie sect ends up functionally all on the Fengshen Bang. Since the Chan sect suffered losses as well, about a third of their newest group of disciples all die as well. 

The Haotian Emperor is happy to have an army of minions, everyone else is not happy. 

I’m assuming Tongtian Jiaozhu is really fucking mad that his disciples are all idiots, but now 90% of his sect is super, super dead and working depressing government cubicle jobs (the ones that are better trained are doing special ops work).

By the way, remember Ne Zha? After he killed himself graphically and was revived, he survived the entire time and ascended to an immortal to work as a marshall in Heaven.

Working in Heaven is bad if you’re forced to through dying: if you ascend to immortality through cultivation, you’re super powerful and it’s actually a great job.

So Ne Zha is having a great time absolutely smashing up the Jie sect and King of Shang’s forces. Also in Heaven working cushy great jobs are Ne Zha’s asshole dad Li Jing (now ascended to a deity, the Pagoda-Bearing Lord), Ne Zha’s two brothers Jin Zha and Mu Zha, and Erlang Shen (who I will cover in a different post).

These are all “good guys” on the side of the Chan, so they fight against the dictator King of Shang.

Essentially, the story of the Fengshen Yanyi is about a bunch of guys trying very hard not to catch Heavenly Lord Yagami’s attention and end up on the Death Note. However, since most of them are dumb, they fail anyway.

[literaryvein-reblogs]

Hi :)) do you have any advice on writing stories about Celtic mythology? Ive been trying to use Wikipedia to learn more about it but I find the format of it isn’t very digestible for me and I end up not understanding it well

Writing Notes: Celtic Mythology

The ancient Celtic pantheon consisted of over 400 gods and goddesses who represented everything from rivers to warfare.

With perhaps the exception of Lugh, the Celtic gods were not universally worshipped across Iron Age Europe but were very often limited to only several regions or a specific area.

Another difficulty in examining the Celtic pantheon is the paucity of written records produced by the Celts themselves; quite often a god (deivos/deiva) is named in only a single surviving inscription.

To further complicate our lack of knowledge, the Celts often gave all-embracing powers and attributes to their gods which means that they can rarely be easily categorised.

Celtic votive inscriptions from the Roman period often name a Celtic god with a Roman equivalent noted alongside, a practice known as the interpretatio romana. The following are a few major deities or those with multiple or significant inscriptions.

Andarta - a Celtic goddess whose name may derive from the Celtic word for the bear animal.

Borvo (also Bormo) - a god whose name likely derives from the Celtic word meaning 'to boil' and so indicates his frequent association with natural hot springs.

The Dagda - an Irish-Celtic god whose name is usually preceded by the definite article. His name likely means 'the good god', probably in the sense of being 'many-skilled'. His common attributes are a great club, which can both kill and bring the dead back to life, and a giant cauldron that can produce an inexhaustible quantity of food, especially porridge.

Danu (also Dana) - a Celtic mother-goddess who gives her name, which means 'stream' or 'the waters of heaven' to various places and the River Danube.

Genii Cucullati - mysterious Celtic divinities which are not given a name but appear in groups or alone and wear hooded cloaks in art. Depictions typically have them near a single better-known god and holding either an egg or a scroll.

Nemetona - a goddess whose name derives from the Celtic term for a sacred grove of trees (nemeton). Votive inscriptions naming the goddess survive from both England and Germany, some of which indicate she is the partner of Mars. The goddess had temples dedicated to her at Klein-Winternheim and Trier, both in eastern Germany.

Suleviae - this is a group of Celtic sister goddesses who were venerated in Britain, Germany, and Rome (where there were many Celtic mercenaries). The trio was most likely seen as protective figures and associated with regeneration.

Read the full list here. More Celtic mythology concepts and themes:

Albion - Ancient Celts referred to Britain—not including Ireland—as Albion and only later as Britannia. The Romans connected Albion through their word albus, meaning “white,” with the white cliffs of Dover. Geoffrey of Monmouth reported that the Celts believed a certain Albion who ruled the island was a giant fathered by a god of the sea. Others believe the island was named for a princess who came to the island with fifty women who in their former home had killed their husbands.

Belenus - Also known in Celtic Ireland and Britain by various names—Bel, Belinos, Beli, Bile—Belenus is a god of Celtic Gaul whom Julius Caesar compared to the Greco-Roman Apollo as a solar god of light and reason. He carries a solar disk on the chariot that he presumably uses to travel daily across the sky. His British name is the source for Billingsgate in London. Fires in honor of the god were lit for Celtic festivals of Beltaine (“Bel’s Fires”) on May 1.

Cernunnos - A horned Celtic god of Gaul (modern France) and parts of the British Isles, Cernunnos was a god offertility, like the Italian goddess *Ceres. He carries a club and is lord of the animals. Perhaps because of his association with planting and seeds, he was associated with the underworld. The Romans linked him to Mercury, who led souls to the underworld, and to Apollo, as he provided light for the dead in their graves. Sometimes he is equated with Dispater and the Irish Dagda.

Decapitation - An important theme in Celtic mythology in general and Irish and Welsh mythology in particular. The story of Bricriu’s Feast is a decapitation myth, as is the Welsh story of Bran. The theme influenced the Arthurian myths and the medieval English romances such as Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Earlier decapitation stories are found in the Bible—including the tales of David and Goliath, Judith and Holofernes, and Salome and John the Baptist. There is also decapitation in the Greek myth of Perseus and Medusa, and in the Mesopotamian myth of Gilgamesh and Humbaba. The decapitation theme—especially when associated with a “green man” such as Gawain’s Green Knight, the Aztec Corn King, or many Native North American Corn Mothers—may well have its roots in sacrificial rituals of fertility. Heads that have been cut away from the body, as in the case of Bran’s head, continue to function and talk in Celtic mythology, suggesting a belief in the head’s being the seat of the soul as well as of power and fertility.

Dis Pater - In the Gaulish, that is, continental Celtic mythology, Dis Pater was the Roman name provided by Julius Caesar for a god claimed by the Gauls as their father god, or ultimate progenitor. The name given by Caesar suggests that the Romans saw a connection between this deity and the otherworld or underworld. As, literally, “underworld father,” Dis Pater is naturally associated in Caesar’s mind with the Roman Pluto. The Irish cognates would probably be the Dagda, the father god of the Tuatha De Danaan, and Donn, the god of the dead.

Druids - The priestly class in early Celtic societies, especially continental Celts. They were judges and seers with great moral authority, who ranked above all other classes. As such, they were the equivalent of their Indo-European brothers, the Indian brahmans. The Romans in Gaul developed myths about the druids such as the one suggesting that they practiced human ‘sacrifice. The Irish filidh may be said to have somewhat diminished druidic standing. The great Celtic bards Taliesen and Amairgen had druidic qualities and authority.

Epona - It was primarily the continental Celts who revered Epona, the horse goddess. She was naturally adopted as a favorite by the Roman cavalry and was celebrated at an annual Roman festival. Epona has certain earth goddess aspects, such as her strong association with fertility, sexuality, and water. In Welsh mythology, Epona appears to have had a cognate in the fertility-warrior goddess Rhiannon, who rode about Wales on a white horse dispensing gifts, in the traditional great goddess manner, from her bag or womb bundle.

Irish mythology

Lugus - His name, referring to brightness, indicates that the continental Celtic god Lugus, whom Julius Caesar equated with the Roman Mercury, was a cognate of the Irish Lugh and the Welsh Lleu. Lugus was a god of the arts.

Maponos - Son of the continental Celtic mother goddess Matrona, has a Welsh cognate in Mabon, as Matrona has one in Modron. Maponos was the divine child— the puer aeternus—of Celtic mythology.

Matrona - In the continental Celtic tradition, Matrona, whose counterpart in Welsh mythology was Modron, was the mother goddess whose son was the divine child Maponos (Welsh Mabon).

Nehalenia - A Germanic and possibly continental Celtic sea goddess who protected voyagers.

Taranis - (Taranus) was compared by Julius Caesar to the Roman god Jupiter. Taranis was the thunder and storm god of the continental Celts of Gaul. He was an aspect of the typically Indo-European triad of Esus, Taranis, and Teutates.

Arthurian Mythology

Annwn - (Caer Feddwid) is a name for the Welsh Otherworld, where a magic cauldron exists. In a medieval Arthurian tale, Preiddeu Annwn (The Spoils of Annwn), Arthur and his knights go to Annwn to obtain the cauldron, which, as indicated by the possession of the Cauldron of Plenty by the Dagda, the father god of the Irish Tuatha De Danaan, was a symbol of sacred kingship. Arthur and the few of his men that remained return empty-handed. The tale is seen as a prototype for the story of the Holy Grail.

Camelot - The castle and primary dwelling place of King Arthur, the seat of the fellowship known as the Round Table. It was at Camelot that the Holy Grail appeared to the knights of the Round Table. Many places in England to this day claim to be the site of the legendary castle. Camelot was first mentioned by Chretien de Troyes in his twelfth-century work Lancelot. Supposedly Camelot was destroyed after Arthur’s death. During the early stylish and optimistic years of the American presidency of John F. Kennedy, it became customary to speak of Kennedy and his followers in the White House, and of the administration as a whole, as “Camelot.”

Chretien de Troyes - A French poet of the 12th century C.E., Chretien wrote metrical romances about the ‘Welsh-British ‘hero ‘King Arthur and his knights of the ‘Round Table. Most famously, he wrote Perceval or the Story of the Grail, about ‘Percival (Parsifal) and the ‘quest for the ‘Holy Grail; and Lancelot, or the Knight of the Cart.

Fisher King - In the Arthurian story, the Fisher King is a somewhat ambiguous figure who is encountered in various conflicting versions by hero-knights of the Round Table— particularly Percival—during the quest for the Holy Grail. The King is in some sense wounded, a fact that affects the fertility of the land he rules. Some say that the King—Pelles, Parian, or Pellam—was guardian of the Grail but that he had sinned and was thus unable to speak when the Grail appeared before him. The King can be cured of his wounds or his speechlessness only when certain questions are asked of him. But when Sir Percival comes to the Fisher King’s castle and the Grail passes by him in procession, he fails to ask any questions about it, and the King remains under the terrible spell.

Galahad - Originally Gwalchafed in Welsh, Sir Galahad was a knight of King Arthur’s Round Table in medieval Arthurian sagas. His story had strong heroic mono- mythic elements. Galahad was the son of Sir Lancelot and the Lady Elaine, whom Lancelot had been tricked by a potion into thinking was his beloved Guinevere. Galahad was brought up by a nun and then knighted by his father and taken to Arthur’s court. He was, above all, pure, and it was this quality that made it possible for him, of all knights, to succeed in the quest for the Holy Grail. Galahad appears in Arthurian lore in a thirteenth-century French cycle of romances. La queste del saint graal (“The Quest for the Holy Grail”). In Sir Thomas Malory’s Le morte d’Arthur, Galahad achieves apotheosis; he is taken up to Heaven.

Guinevere - In the Arthurian romances, including those of Chretien de Troyes, the Welsh historian Geoffrey of Monmouth, and Sir Thomas Malory, Guinevere (Welsh Gwenhwyfar) is the wife of King Arthur and the beloved of Sir Lancelot. There are conflicting tales of Guinevere’s origins. Some traditions hold that she was the daughter of Leodegan, who gave the Round Table to Arthur when the latter married his daughter. Her love for Lancelot led to the disruption of Camelot and the fellowship of the knights of the Round Table, and eventually to Arthur’s death. Some say she married Mordred after Arthur’s death. More often it is said that she retired to a nunnery.

Holy Grail - or Sangreale in Old French, was an important quest object in the Arthurian tradition, particularly connected with Percival, as in the Perceval of Chretien de Troyes (c. 1185) and the slightly later Parfval of Wolfram von Eschenbach. Whatever the original source of the legends of the Grail, Christianity associated it with one of the vessels used by Jesus at the Last Supper.

King Arthur - Legendary British king who appears in a cycle of medieval romances (known as the Matter of Britain) as the sovereign of a knightly fellowship of the Round Table. It is not certain how these legends originated or whether the figure of Arthur was based on a historical person. The legend possibly originated either in Wales or in those parts of northern Britain inhabited by Brythonic-speaking Celts.

Lancelot - The son of King Ban of Benwick or Brittany, Sir Lancelot, or Lancelot of the Lake—so called because he was raised by Vivienne, the mysterious Lady of the Lake, who stole him at birth—was one of the noblest knights of King Arthur’s Round Table. But his love affair with Arthur’s queen, Guinevere, would lead to the downfall of Camelot and the fellowship of knights. Sir Galahad was Lancelot’s son by the Lady Elaine, who tricked him into thinking she was Guinevere and so made love with him. Galahad would succeed in the quest for the Holy Grail where his father had failed. Lancelot rescued Guinevere when she was about to be burned at the stake for adultery. When Guinevere and Lancelot fled to Brittany, Arthur followed them and his illegitimate son or nephew, Mordred, usurped his throne. This led to a war in which both Mordred and Arthur were killed. When Guinevere retired to a nunnery, Lancelot, too, took religious vows. The Lancelot story is found in the works of Chretien de Troyes and Sir Thomas Malory.

Mabinogion - The “Welsh Mabinogion is found in two fourteenth-century manuscripts, the White Book of Rhydderch and the Red Book of Hergest. The collection, based on oral narratives, probably took literary form between the mid-eleventh to the early twelfth centuries.

Malory - Sir Thomas Malory is the fifteenth-century English author of Le Morte d’Arthur, an important compilation of Arthurian material. He is said to have created his great prose work while in prison.

Merlin - Probably has an antecedent in the legendary Scottish and/or Irish mad prophet Myrddin (Merddin). The Welsh historian Geoffrey of Monmouth, in his twelfth-century History of the Kings of Britain, established Merlin’s position as the motivating wizard in the Arthurian legend. It was Merlin who helped arrange for the liaison between Uther and Igraine that would lead to the conception and birth of King Arthur. After Arthur’s birth Merlin took the child to one Hector, this in keeping with the monomythic heroic divine child’s being raised by a menial or commoner. It was Merlin who arranged for the ceremony through which Arthur would prove himself to be the king by removing a sword from a rock. There are many versions of Merlin’s life. It was said by some that he was conceived as a result of the union between a sleeping nun and a demon. In Sir Thomas Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur, based on many earlier sources—many of them specifically about Merlin—the magician falls in love with an enchantress, Nimue (perhaps the Lady of the Lake), a femme fatale who imprisons him under a rock.

Welsh Mythology

Has come to us from various sources, all much more directly affected and distorted by time and non-Celtic elements than is the case in the much more isolated Ireland.

There are the two Latin texts especially concerned with the Arthurian legends—the early-ninth-century Historia Brittonum by Nennius and the twelfth-century Historia Regum Britanniae by Geoffrey of Monmouth—and there are, of course, oral sources, including, traditionally, poems questionably attributed to the semi-mythic sixth-century poet-prophet Taliesin, whose Irish equivalent was Amairgen, the poet-warrior.

But Welsh mythology, including the remnants of a pre-Christian Welsh pantheon, is more essentially contained in the “four branches” of a collection of eleven medieval tales known in modern times as the Mabinogion {Mabinogi) and in the various traditions associated with King Arthur.

Sources: 1 2 3 4 5 ⚜ More: References ⚜ Writing Resources PDFs

Hi, consuming a lot of media on the topic would be important for your story. These are just a few excerpts from the sources I was able to find, which you can go through in the links above (+ the other references the authors mentioned). Find the right balance between your research and the direction you want your own story to go. Hope this helps with your writing!

[pulaasul]

Billy Batson - Being the most powerful child in DC Comics overall. just some food for thought. AKA Billy Batson wearing the Helmet of Fate and Weilding Marvel's Thor's Hammer, Mjolnir.

Back when the Young Justice episode: Misplaced aired, the concept of Billy Batson wearing the Helmet of Fate was put into the minds of DC fans. The fanart speaks of itself.

Back in May of 1996, Both DC and Marvel crossed over to do a VS feature pitting the characters of DC comics and Marvel comics against each other. We have match ups like Storm vs. Wonder Woman, Elektra vs. Catwoman, Flash vs. Quicksilver, Batman vs. Captain America and Thor vs. DC's Captain Marvel.

In those series of comics, after Thor defeated Captain Marvel on a technicality, Wonder Woman was found worthy of Thor's Mjolnir, however she lost because it wouldn't make the fight fair against Storm.

It's good to note that the winners of each matchups do not necessarily mean that the people who lost to the other person is weaker, the character with the most votes win.

Yes this was a popularity contest.

Back from the tangent, I'd like to focus on Mjolnir and Billy. Jury is still out whether Billy would be worthy of Marvel's Mjolnir. Notice the distinction, because Mjolnir in Nordic mythos, had no "worthiness enchantment" and its just a heavy lug of metal that in any given circumstance, Billy could pick up, being blessed by the gods and all that, regardless if his pantheon was of the greco-roman variety.

Marvel's Mjolnir has a "worthiness enchantment" put into it for a variety of reasons, that we are not getting into, but whoever was deemed worthy would have the power of Thor.

All of that yapping just to say how powerful would Billy be if he wears the Helmet of Fate and weild Thor's hammer?

[punkeropercyjackson]

Using Percy Jackson's misandry as some kind internalized bias is crazy like you REALLY think a character who has a deadbeat birthdad who lovebombs him when they reunite and had a physically,verbally and financially abusive stepdad and grew up under the thumb of the greco-roman pantheon starting at twelve as their neverending scapegoated martyr AND was bullied by male peers and male authority figures alike in the mortal world too hates men out of 'internalized homophobia' and is being unreasonable by not 'learning positive,soft masculinity' so he can opt for gender neutrality since as an amab person he can't try femininity without risking his safety.The Pjo books literally frame Percy as BETTER than other men FOR his lack of masc traits and manhating mentality,say sike yesteryear

[fluffymcsnuggles]

The start of a series of portraits I've made of the Greco-Roman gods and goddesses

[sillysybilsden]

To Janus. To Jupiter. To the Roman gods.

🪔

𝐓𝐚𝐛𝐥𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐬

I. Introduction

II. Gods

III. Mythology

IV. Calendar

V. Ritual

VI. Epilogue

VII. Resources

🪔

𝐈. 𝐈𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧

Hey there everyone! This is Sybil (fka Clever Crow). As a Roman polytheist, “Roman polytheism is just a carbon-copy of Greek polytheism” is something I hear on a weekly basis. Whether on YouTube, TikTok, Pinterest or, heck, even academic resources, there seems to be a widespread belief that these two religions are identical. Today, I want to focus on this piece of misinformation and try to debunk it by using historical evidence and examples.

Just a small disclaimer: I will be discussing this topic from a hard polytheistic and revivalist point of view. Soft polytheism is absolutely valid, but in this case it might not be of use when highlighting differences between gods.

Also, I want to thank the following people: Cristina, Mystix, @spiritual-entries and @camssecretcave . They made sure that all information provided here is factual and reliable, and I will be forever grateful to them for their help.

🪔

𝐈𝐈. 𝐆𝐨𝐝𝐬

“Are the Greek and Roman pantheons one and the same?” This is the first question we will attempt at answering within this chapter. To do so, we must introduce a very important concept in Roman religion: interpretatio romana. Before that, though, let me provide you with some historical context.

Ever since the founding of Rome in 753 BCE, Romans were exposed to influences from other Italic peoples: Sabines, Etruscans, Volsci and so on. Because of that, we can indeed say that there has never been a 100% “native” Roman religion.

We can nonetheless differentiate two “phases” of Roman polytheism: pre-hellenisation polytheism and post-hellenisation polytheism (“hellenisation” being the process that merged Greek and Roman cultures and religions during the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE). For simplicity’s sake, in this post we are going to compare the pre-hellenisation version of Roman religion and Hellenism.

Back to interpretatio: what is it? To put it simply, it is the comparison of two different pantheons (which is used to find matches between the gods). It was used so that, when describing other populations’ religions, one could just name a more familiar, local deity instead of fully describing a foreign one (which, obviously, would take much more time). Just imagine being a Roman historian and having to discuss Greek religion: instead of saying “Ares is a god of war, battle and courage”, you could just say “Ares is like our Mars”.

Does that mean that these gods were seen as identical? Absolutely not! Actually, this shows us that Roman gods were a thing long before Greek gods started being adopted in the pantheon (which is the reason why a god like Janus does not have a Greek counterpart).

Sticking with the same example we have used before, we can say that Mars was already Mars before he was equated to Ares. And, because of that, at a closer look, the two are extremely different: while Ares is blood-driven, Mars shows a much calmer nature; contrarily to Ares, Mars has some pretty important ties to royalty (his son being Romulus-Quirinus) and agriculture; while Ares has a relationship with Aphrodite, Mars is married to Nerio; and so on. It is only after hellenisation that these two (as well as all of the other gods) started merging into one single Greco-Roman figure.

As I said before, though, this does not mean that Rome was against syncretism. Quite the contrary, actually: whenever Romans ran into a deity who could be of use to them and did not have a counterpart in their pantheon, they would consider adopting them. This is the reason why Apollo was worshiped by both societies (Romans adopted him in 431 BCE in order to fight a pestilence; his Greek nature never went unacknowledged: for him, ritus graecus was performed).

Fun fact: interpretatio was not only directed to Greece. Roman priests tried to include the prophet Jesus Christ into the Roman pantheon. He was described to them as “a god of love”, so they used interpretatio to connect him to Venus.

🪔

𝐈𝐈𝐈. 𝐌𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐥𝐨𝐠𝐲

As I said before, during hellenisation Greek and Roman gods started merging. As a consequence, so did their mythologies…

Actually, no, scratch that: except for a few exceptions, Roman gods did not have a mythology to begin with. Mythology that is Roman in origin revolves around men, not deities (and that is the reason why it is also referred to as “mythic history”, as the protagonists are pseudo-historical figures). Myths in Ancient Rome were used as exempla, examples to teach teens and men how they should behave in a virtuous way.

For example, one of the most famous figures from Roman mythology is Lucius Junius Brutus, the founder of the Republic: he was intelligent (he tricked the cruel king Lucius Tarquinius Superbus into sparing his life), loyal (he never deserted the Romans) and strong-willed (he took the matters into his own hands and kicked out of Rome the cruel king), and every Roman had to aspire to be like him.

In Greece, on the other hand, myths had the task of explaining why something happens. Why do we have a colder season and a warmer one? That is because Persephone comes back from and goes to the Underworld. How do we know how to use fire? Prometheus gave it to men. How did the hyacinth, the flower, get its name? It comes from Apollo’s lover Hyacinth. On top of that, Greek mythology revolves a lot more around deities than the Roman one (which is the reason why there is a pretty intricate divine family tree in Hellenism).

With this in mind, we can say that, with hellenisation, the Roman gods received myths and genealogies (as well as iconographies, in some cases) of their own for the first time ever. However, these myths and these genealogies were not altered to better fit the deity.

This is the reason why Nerio, Mars’ original wife, was forgotten in favor of Venus (Aphrodite’s Roman counterpart). This is why Saturn, an extremely benevolent agricultural deity, started being depicted as a cruel entity devouring his children (yes: I am looking at you, Goya). And this is also why Minerva, who used to have nothing to do with Medusa, started to be seen as she-who-cursed-Medusa (now I am looking at you, Ovid).

🪔

𝐈𝐕. 𝐂𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐚𝐫

Calendars were of extreme importance in polytheistic societies. After all, they were deeply intertwined with their religious mentality… which is the reason why we are briefly going to discuss this matter in this blog.

When it comes to Ancient Greece, the calendar we have the most evidence on is the Athenian one (which, because of this, has become the most widely used in modern Hellenic polytheistic communities). It is lunisolar (keep this in mind!). When it comes to Ancient Rome, on the other hand, we have quite some evidence on three different calendars that modern Roman polytheists can choose from: a lunar one, a lunisolar one and a solar one (the latter happens to be the calendar still in use today).

One similarity that needs to be addressed is the one between Noumenia and Kalends (both being a celebration of the first day of the month). In the Roman version, however, we would also have to add Nones and Ides as recurring monthly festivities.

Another similarity that many seem to highlight is the one between Kronia and Saturnalia, two festivities where abundance is celebrated (as well as, respectively, Kronos and Saturn, who later merged) and the Golden Age is remembered. However! Kronia is celebrated during the Summer, roughly during the Summer solstice; Saturnalia is celebrated during Wintertime, roughly during the Winter solstice. It might not seem like a big difference at first, but it is if we consider this: during Kronia, the harvest is celebrated while it is happening, while the mature crops are being collected; during Saturnalia, the harvest that has already happened during the past Summer is celebrated, as well as the one that is to come.

Last but not least, let us highlight a Roman-only peculiarity. Back in Ancient Roman times, every day had a “quality": they could either be faustus or nefastus (as well as a lot more nuances which we will not be taking into account here). They were of great importance on a religious level, as nefastus days could bring bad luck to a practitioner if they were to take big decisions. Something similar also happened with dies religiosi, during which it was forbidden to go to work (or do anything that was not a life-or-death matter).

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𝐕. 𝐑𝐢𝐭𝐮𝐚𝐥

Now that we have discussed the more “theological” matters, such as the nature of the gods, myths and festivities, we can briefly talk about the more practical side of things.

Let us start with an all-time favorite: veiling. Nowadays, a lot of pagans (no matter their path or their gender) veil for a variety of reasons: protection, modesty or devotion. And that is, no doubt, valid. Historically speaking, though, things kind of different. While both in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome veils were used by women in order to express their modesty, in Italy they were also mandatory whenever performing rituals (for women and men alike).

Another big difference resides in the views of these two societies over divination. When we think of “divination” and “Ancient Greece”, one of the first things that comes to our minds is probably the Oracle of Delphi (and rightly so!). This figure was said to be able to channel the messages of the gods, and they did so by going into a trance-like state.

In Rome, this practice was seen as unreliable (even though, surprisingly, there are a couple of instances where Romans have asked the Oracle for guidance), as the only reliable forms of divination were those that could be performed when completely conscious (augury, haruspicy, etc). Dreams, too, were seen as an untrustworthy form of communication by Romans.

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𝐕𝐈. 𝐄𝐩𝐢𝐥𝐨𝐠𝐮𝐞

There is something we still need to address: if these two cultures, societies, religions were so different, why do so many people believe otherwise?

Well, the answer can be found in 19th century’s anthropological and religious studies. Back then, scholars used to be very fond of the comparative approach (which is a “strategy where characteristics or parts are compared across different research situations to identify differences or similarities”, according to www.sciencedirect.com) and the Indo-European theory.

Too focused on stressing the similarities between Greeks and Romans, intellectuals “forgot” to highlight the differences. Even though nowadays, academically, these hypotheses have been marked as outdated, they are still ever-so widespread.

I hope that this blog will contribute to debunking this piece of misinformation. And I hope that I managed to introduce you, reader, to Roman polytheism… Not just a carbon-copy of Hellenism!

Sybil

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𝐕𝐈𝐈. 𝐑𝐞𝐬𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐜𝐞𝐬

The majority of my knowledge on Greek religion comes from “Archeologia greca” by Enzo Lippolis and Giorgio Rocco and theoi.com, as well as some high school classes dedicated to Hellenic mythology.

The following resources talk specifically about this post's subject:

Roman vs. Greek religion (YouTube)

Greek mythology: A second masterpost (Tumblr)

You can check out my full list of resources on Roman polytheism here.

🪔 Check out this post on Amino as well! 🪔

[aroaceleovaldez]

reminder that the only reason the "ADHD is actually demigod BATTLE STRATEGIES" and "dyslexia is DEMIGOD BRAINS HARDWIRED FOR ANCIENT GREEK" things exist in the PJO universe is because it's a very direct reference to early 2000s teaching/parenting techniques for neurodiverse and disabled children, which aimed to frame childrens' disabilities and hardships as a "superpower" or strength so that the children would feel more positively about their disabilities or situations. This technique has fallen out of favor since then for the most part since more often than not it just results in kids feeling as though their struggles are not being seen or taken seriously.

Yes, demigods are adhd/dyslexic (and sometimes autistic-coded) in the series. This is extremely important and trying to remove it or not acknowledge it makes the entire series fall apart because it is such a core concept. Yes, canon claims that their adhd/dyslexia is tied to some innate abilities, which is based on an outdated methodology. It's important to acknowledge that and understand where it comes from! But please stop trying to apply it to other pantheons in the series like "oh, the romans have dyscalculia because of roman numerals!" or "the norse demigods have dysgraphia for reasons!" - it's distasteful at best.

A better option is to acknowledge the meta inspiration for why that exists in the series, such as explaining potentially that Chiron was utilizing that same teaching methodology to try and help demigods feel more comfortable with their disabilities and they aren't literal powers. In fact, especially given Frank, there's implication that being adhd/dyslexic isn't a guaranteed demigod trait, which means it's more likely to be normally inherited from their godly parent/divine ancestor as a general trait, not a power, and further supports the whole "ADHD is battle strategy" thing being non-literal. It also implies the entire greco-roman pantheon in their universe is canonically adhd/dyslexic - and that actually fits very well with the themes of the first series. The entire central conflict of the first series fits perfectly as an allegory about neurodiverse/disabled children and their relationships with their undiagnosed neurodiverse/disabled parents and trying to find solutions together with their shared disability/disabilities that the kid inherited instead of becoming distant from each other (and this makes claiming equivalent to getting a diagnosis which is a fascinating allegory! not to mention the symbolism of demigods inheriting legacies and legends and powers from their parents and everything that comes with that being equivalent to inheriting traits, neurodiversity, and disabilities from your parents).

anyways neurodiversity and disability and the contexts in which the series utilizes representation of those experiences particularly during the 2000s symbolically within the narrative is incredibly important to the first series and the understanding of what themes it means to represent. also if i see one more "the romans have dyscalculia instead of dyslexia" post in 2023 i'm gonna walk into the ocean.