#grammygate

[daisyswift3]

This tweet currently has over 5000 likes. They’re finally seeing the light

[bloom-wood]

Weird weird weird….

[whatiwillsay]

Have we discussed the article released noting that Joe Alwyn is essentially set for life financially from his writing contributions on 3 of Taylor’s albums? I think his team is gently fighting back

he isn't though. it is a clickbait headline but it says he's only earning 5 figures from the music per year. so that's 10k to 99k. now yeah someone could live off 99k although you have to imagine he's developed pretty expensive taste after six years with miss private jet. and an extra 10-20 grand a year is ofc great but it isn't gonna set him up for life.

[totallylost4you]

Who's William Bowery anyway? Ew.

In Berlin Jack read the sign at the concert and laughed at it. When he signed the sign, he again did not reveal who WB is.

I am also still not over Grammygate! 🙃😂

Did you know that Joe won a PRODUCER Grammy?

It was impossible to win a Grammy as WB because he / she only WROTE 2 songs on the album. (Until 2022 you had to be involved in 33% of the album time to win a Grammy.) They added Joe to exactly the minimum amount of songs as PRODUCER. Of course they couldn't change the printed booklets without him, BUT they added him as a PRODUCER on all online platforms back then.

Who's William Bowery anyway? 🤷

[spade-riddles]

taylor's strategy is so puzzling because even IF the relationships with toe, ratty and tractor were real, why on earth would she want those men to take the spotlight off her? grammygate, the whole ratty trying to be cute on eras, tractor literally going up on stage... doesn't make any sense, real or not, for the most famous woman in the world to make herself smaller to prop up these men. hope she decides to be done with the circus soon because it's hard to watch as a fan of hers

[9w1ft]

at the end of the day most people in the community just want to either (1) be in lock step with taylor or (2) have not been wildly wrong about things /

absolutely this! i've low-key thought for a long time that honestly, the most likely path for taylor to take if SHE wanted to ever come out, would be in some way where she can argue her hand was forced, or all the speculation pushed her to say something when she wanted to keep her sexuality private. that way the vast majority of fans can still feel like they were doing the right thing by not "speculating", it would maintain the public narrative of her relationships, and it won't feel like a 'gaylors were right all along' moment. swifties have been willing to change their minds absolutely drastically on, say, joe alwyn, to the point of re-inventing grammygate. i think they could absolutely do the same on this if taylor chose to play things that way.

anon was actually talking about karlie’s reputation but the same logic definitely applies to what you’re saying too!

[iwanthermidnightz]

High-key hope that Jack and Aaron unfollow him, I'm still mad about Grammygate

Aaron doesn’t seem like one for drama but Jack will make a bit out of it 😭

[asteracaea]

I kinda miss Joe. :( I'm happy he is in a good place.

https://www.reddit.com/r/travisandtaylor/s/cgS5fiquvg

i found a link to the video interview with The Times but it's behind a paywall

my feelings about this man have fluctuated so much over the years. from william bowery and grammygate to the end, i admit i was quite a hater. but almost immediately after the split my feelings changed and even warmed (seeing pap pics of him walking happily with a boy reminded me that i think he's probably also closeted and was also made to play this game for the sake of everything at stake). he looked so unhappy and not well back then, so maybe he wasn't the villain but another victim of the circus. idk.

but now i just want the best for him and i hope he can be authentic and happy, and yeah he does sound very classy here.

and oh my LORDDDD WITH MATTY AND TRAVIS I HAVE BEEN WISHING HE WERE BACK 😭😭😭 didn't know a good beard when we had one

[sparkliingdust]

I Love Taylor Swift....

But I feel like we can be fans of her without believing she is the epitome of perfection and pushing that mentality on other people. She is talented. She is hardworking. She is influential. But the stans have to learn to lay off. The behavior this summer is straight-up annoying, and honestly, we need to learn to acknowledge the mistakes she's made too.

Going to the Eras Tour Movie is not about us having or reliving the concert experience. We can't go in inconveniencing movie theatre employees and other theatres around us with noise complaints. It's great she made a movie. Let's dress up and given out friendship bracelets. But let's not cause a scene because we want to poorly scream shout songs. This reminds me of when newer or other artists release music around when she has a release, and they end up getting buried on social media or streaming. Like other people can prosper on the charts too. Like we don't have to keep proving to her how much we love her. She should know by now.

Taylor's dancers, back-up singers, and fans going to see Beyonce did not betray Taylor and deserve to be fired or aren't real fans. Stop trying to cancel everyone who varies outside of Taylor's circle. We can support more than one artist.

As a fandom we are more than aware that Taylor's had to repeatedly show her songwriting abilities so she isn't discredited. Why can't we show Olivia Rodrigo the same courtesy and understanding? Her whole career shouldn't be taken down because her team admitted that two songs were 'inspired' by Taylor (whether Deja Vu actually sounds like Cruel Summer is open to your ears interpretation). The appropriate credit was given as well as 50% royalties (which is just insane). That doesn't mean root through every album Olivia makes and try to tie to other songs. It's disappointing that Jack had to get out and explain what was going on, and Taylor hasn't said a peep yet.

Taylor has a weak history working with women in music. She's worked very little with female producers as consistently as Aaron and Jack, and female artists have been used as back-up vocals more compared to male artists who are featured on the actual track. And she has publicly supported younger rising artists very prominently during a promo tour of sorts and then goes completely silent - Olivia Rodrigo, IceSpice during the whole ratty situation, Hayley Kiyoko for reputation/allyship promo tour, etc. She is a force of nature in the music industry, but I do think she could publicly clean up her image supporting female artists and not when it's to her own benefit.

Miss Americana did not age well at all. Instead of letting reputation exist without an explanation, she was a part of an entire documentary of how she was cancelled (and wrongfully so), but then turned it into her becoming an activist that went nowhere. Sitting on your couch with your publicist in a huge mansion toasting the resistance with champagne over a social media post, and then never following up on it, is completely peak white feminism. Some celebs are not cut out for adding activism into the career. Okay. But she should've done the work before stepping into the arena using the LGBTQ+ community in a music video to prove that she's always been an ally because Todrick didn't know how she'd react to having a gay kid is not it.

GrammyGate. Joe was listed as William Bowery for two songs on Folklore. After it won Album of the Year, he was changed to a producer to six songs and that qualified him to win a Grammy. She did reveal that he was William in the long pond sessions but the proper paperwork wasn't submitted/finalized until eight months after the album came out - where he could've been properly credited as a collaborator. And now with the Eras Tour and Joe/Taylor has broken up, she switches back and forth to say she wrote Betty on her own, and everything came out of her imagination. Why all of the shenanigans for a bright shiny award??

I know all of this makes it sound like I hate Taylor, but I don't. I'm practically known as the resident Swiftie everywhere I hang out/work because I'm always bringing her up in one way or another. But she's not perfect, and I'm super freaking tired of being in a fandom that refuses to not acknowledge anything slightly questionable that's she done. We're canceling her or dragging her down - it just means we're able to see she's not infallible and love her despite of her mistakes.

[taylortruther]

first of all, your new inbox line (? No idea what it’s called) is incredible

anyway what you’ve been describing with fauxmoi has happened with some gaylors as well. like at least BE CONSISTENT. there are some gaylors who have hated him since the grammy thing (I refuse to call it Grammygate) in spring 2021 and were even convinced they were going to break up that fall. was i annoyed at the time? yes I’m not above that. did they turn out to be right about certain things? well… yes lmao. and they’ve stuck with the hate! yeah hating on people isn’t great ofc but i respect that way more than the gaylors who suddenly like him.

(this is not to say you cannot change your opinion about people. i used to be a joe defender. look at me now. however, liking someone more after your favorite celebrity dumped them is just weird idk)

YES just be consistent! consistency is literally all i ask, it's the basis of my blog's kaylor debunking origins. hate or 'love' whoever and whatever you want, but be consistent, or at least honest about the inconsistency, otherwise you're just being a weenie.

same thing with fans who have now become haters because they're on team taylor. i may not agree with the behavior but i can respect the honesty.

[karlie-what-you-want]

Lmao, people need to start getting serious and stop pretending that people immediately picking random famoua guys to pair Taylor off with after she announced she ditched Toe is something that would ever bother her, she is literally the woman who told a Vanity Fair interviewer in 2020 that in 2016 she and her dumb little female brain couldn't comprehend American politics until a big strong smart man with a superior man-brain came to the US from Britain and told her "Trump bad! Vote Democrat!" within like the first month he ever spent in America because for some dumb reason she thought it'd boost her chances of Miss Americana making the Oscar shortlist for Best Documentary

I love Taylor too but people really need to stop putting her on a pedestal and pretending that she doesn't quite often and quite purposely use misgogynistic tropes and shit to promote and sell whatever she's got going on at the time and that misogyny is actually something that bothers her 24/7 instead of something she likes to use to her advantage on occasions 💀

Anon, I think you are assuming that these truths cannot coincide, when I just don’t think that’s the case. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to post this, because I think some of the language is harmful, and I’m not honestly sure if you’re actually a Taylor fan or just a troll. But, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

First of all, many of us have been perplexed and frustrated by some of the things she says and does—especially in the case of crediting joe for her political activism. However, Taylor has never portrayed herself as having a “dumb little female brain,” and I find that assertion to be offensive, even though I don’t think you’re actually knocking her intelligence.

I am also of the opinion that joe was a stand-in for Karlie in many ways. So Taylor saying that he encouraged her to speak up and be braver about her political stances could have been her way of honoring Karlie (who has always been politically outspoken) for encouraging Taylor in a similar way.

Taylor does a lot of things that mystify me. I don’t always understand her motives, other than to succeed in the music business. I think that’s always come first for her, even to the detriment of her personal life and relationships. Things like this or Grammygate perhaps are not the best look for someone who has framed herself as a feminist activist, but I think that can coexist with the fact that Taylor would be bothered by people constantly trying to tie her to a man.

It takes me back to the Archer: “I cut off my nose just to spite my face/ then hate my reflection for years and years” She does a lot of things that are contrary to her own beliefs out of fear and the need to be liked by the public. (See also: “I’ve never had the courage of my convictions as long as danger is near”). She doesn’t like that she does these things, and she doesn’t like that (to her it seems) the only way to succeed is by tying herself to a man. I think it’s clear through her lyrics (too many to list) that she wishes it wasn’t so.

Plus, it’s one thing to do it herself (and hate it all the while), but it’s a completely different thing to have others do it for you and rub your face in it. That would really suck.

So while you might say it’s hypocritical for her to be offended by the notion of people trying to match her up with a bunch of famous men, it’s not unrealistic for her to feel that way. I have always worked very hard to keep from putting her on a pedestal, as you mentioned, and I think part of doing that is recognizing the duality of Taylor, her beliefs, and her lyrics.

She’s a businesswoman, yes, but still a woman. Still a person. We’re all hypocritical sometimes, we all do things that we hate, and we all want to be told we’re strong enough to succeed on our own.

[daisyswift3]

Umm so Aaron just said he and Taylor wrote and recorded High Infidelity at the 2021 grammys when folklore won aoty….I was already pretty certain that High Infidelity was abt grammygate and the WB debacle and was sort of an apology to gaylors but now I’m like 1000% certain. Especially w Bejeweled and Anti Hero being on the same album, it makes sooo much sense

The chorus perfectly describes the climate of the fandom when all this was going down. Gaylors weren’t having it, we were extremely upset abt Taylor damaging the integrity of her art by lying abt the credits but at the time she thought it was the right thing to do. This song never felt romantic to me but more like a metaphor for betraying the trust of someone you love

“Put on your records…put on your headphones” seems like sth you’d say to fans who buy and stream your music rather than to a significant other

“Lock broken” -> a broken promise and broken trust

“Do I really have to chart the constellations in his eyes?” -> I don’t want to keep this facade going or bend the truth anymore

“good money” // “I took the money, my friends from home don’t know what to say”

[bisluthq]

grammy is basically a playground to her atp lol can't ppl just calm down a bit. anyway, i really love your response better than other swifties who always infantilized her.

exactly. Jay can go up there and bag on them for snubbing Bey (it was NOT imo directed at Taylor at all and it’s weird white fragility to think it was because Bey wasn’t even nominated this year - he just had the chance to point it out so he took it). Taylor can go up there and say “sweet thanks to the Academy and also guess what? I’m releasing a new album get psyched - you’ll see me up here again soon bitches.” Because they’re legends and they don’t need the validation and the ass kissing. Taylor has DONE the ass kissing. She really doesn’t need to anymore.

PS she proved with Grammygate that she doesn’t take it all that seriously and it’s just a bit of fun for her idk.

[whatiwillsay]

Just had a realization that in tolerate it when taylor says “drawing hearts in the byline” she isn’t talking about the margins, but the author of a song. Maybe she’s taking about Grammygate and giving Joe writing credit. What are your thoughts?

oh damn this is good

did you come up with this theory!?

[rainbowdaisy13]

Do you think the baby No2 has anything to do with increased stunting? (Not the choice of beard but the loud bearding). When first baby was announced, it was around the same time as JoeA/ William Bowery announced and the birth is around same time as grammygate, jerks photo literally went up same night as Grammys. Now the second baby announced, the same week Taylor gets loud again with MH. And the birth will probably be around Speak now tv drop. I don’t doubt they are making music together, but it’s like she’s trying to distract from Karlie aswel.

It’s very possible. I’m sure in her mastermind plan, it makes sense. Again, she has forgotten the people along the way in a desperate attempt to orchestrate this grand years long coming out. When Chely did it, there wasn’t social media. And as far as I know, she did not constantly drop extremely loud gay hints.

[malibuklaus]

she wants to speak to the grammyger

is this bitch whole shtick being a zoomer karen