#gotham 2014 meta

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

Gotham Analysis/Things I Noticed & Theories Masterlist

Repressed Queerness and Queerphobia in Gotham: An Essay (that I'm very proud of 😁) 🏳️‍🌈

How Gotham Characters' Religious Beliefs Change and Oswald Cobblepot's Fear of Hell 🔥

Funny Theory Why Some Nygmobblepot Scenes Were Never Mentioned Again

Nathaniel Barnes Appreciation Post

Jim Gordon's Presentation as a Tragic Hero🤨 (Jim Gordon Slander)

Was Fluffwald!Oswald Cobblepot's Guilt Created by Hugo Strange or Did He Have It Before?

Lee Thompkins' Upbringing Theory

Gotham as a Sports Game ⚽️🔴😂

Why Oswald Cobblepot Sees Edward Nygma's Revenge as a Classic Stage Tragedy but Ed Sees It as a Psychological Horror (+Incorrect Quote) 🎭😱

Why Narrows!Lee Thompkins Has the Time to Wear Make-Up 🙃 (Theory Containing Spoilers About Her Job)

Season 3 Nygmobblepot Theory: Edward Nygma Using Sublimation to Repress his Feelings for Oswald

The Gotham Character Most Likely to Figure Out About Ed's Sultry Hallucination of Oswald (the Answer Might Surprise You 😉)

Canon Physical Nygmobblepot Intimacy in the Mayor Era & Related Headcanons👔

Why Clone!Jim Gordon Was So Inaccurate (Theory)

Worst Hairstyle & How It Hints at Gobblepot

Edward Nygma's Opinion on Pizza Hawaii and Why There's a Pineapple in His Appartment (How I Met Your Mother Style) 🍍

My Question About Oswald's Bad Deed in Season 1 Episode 17

The Unintentional Humour in Season 1 Episode 16 (Charles Van Dahl)

The Sadness in Season 1 Episode 16 (Oswald Cobblepot)

Who Did Jim Gordon Vote For?

Nygmobbelpot Sugardaddy x Sugarbabe Vibes Go Both Ways (like Ed 😉😂)

What kind of a politician I think Oswald Cobblepot would be when it comes to LGBTQIA+ 🏳️‍🌈🤔

Jim Gordon Looking Jealous of Nygmobblepot

Fun Little Gotham Detail (Season 3 Edward Nygma)

Why Oswald Cobblepot Keeps Surviving Being Thrown into Water (Funny Theory)

What Happens When You Look Up IsabellA on the internet (ridiculous conspiracy theory)

Gotham Conservapedia Ridiculousness (Analysis of Homophobic Warnings 🤨) 🏳️‍🌈😂

Edward Nygma went from...to...💀

Different Perceptions of Oswald Cobblepot's Gorgeous Looks

Google's View of Nygmobblepot

More Os at What Cost

Gotham Ship Constellations🌃

Nygmobblepot (& Gobblepot) Girlfriend Parallels

Different Interpretations of Jim Gordon Hallucinating Barbara Kean

Why it would be funny if Ed was in love with Oswald

Fish Mooney Calling her Creator Daddy

Why some people compare Ed and Oswald's clothing style to H&M

Was Edward Nymga Really a Theatre Kid? 🎭

Jim Gordon's Police BROtality

Season 3 Nygmobblepot Close-Up (Edward Nygma Grabbing Oswald)

Gotham's Villains' Flamboyancies

Small Kristen Kringe & Myrtle Wilson Parallels

Bruce Wayne's parents simply can't die on-screen often enough 😂

Gotham Is Unironically Amazing (But There Are a Few Things that Made Us Criticize It)

Season 2 Jerome Valeska Holding a Teacup

[pengylove]

Unpopular opinions time, but let me talk about that famous "hug with knives to each other's backs" scene.

I might do a bigger post with screencaps and stuff later on, but for now, just my thoughts:

I don't think that Oswald for even a second thought about betraying and killing Edward.

You see, he's watching him very attentively throughout Ed's/Riddler's whole speech about taking Gotham back and he doesn't look entirely comfortable while at it.

And throughout the most important part of the speech, where he speaks about his plans, Ed/Riddler keeps looking at his reflection in the mirror, and throughout the whole speech not even once he mentions Oswald, always saying that he came back, he intends to reclaim Gotham etc etc - there is no 'we' here, only 'I'.

So what I think happened is that Oswald realized that Riddler is taking Ed over again, and he knows what it means, for Ed and for others, and Oswald wants so desperately to believe his Ed is stronger than Riddler, so he tells him they would be stronger together*, gives him a chance to prove he is more Ed, his Ed, than Riddler, but Ed/Riddler still doesn't look at him and only says "Perhaps", so Oswald pulls out his knife because he is almost sure that Riddler is taking Ed over, which will destroy his Ed and Gotham eventually, and that Riddler's next logical step would be to kill him, so Oswald pulls out his knife to kill him in turn - to rid the city of him and yes, rid Ed of this too - if Riddler decides to kill him.

And he asks for a hug, both as a way to open himself up to him, give him the perfect opportunity to literally and metaphotically stab him in the back, and as one last comfort before his death, a chance to die in the arms of the one he loves.

And the hug is perfect, it's everything he has ever wanted, but Oswald is ready to push the blade into Riddler's back the moment his blade enters his own and he gets teary-eyed because he wishes that this hug was true, that they could be together forever, Ed and him, in life, but he is afraid that it's not meant to be, considering their history and what he witnessed just now.

He gets teary-eyed and smiles shakily, sadly because for his in a lot of ways messed up life this is kind of a perfect messed up ending, to die in the arms of the one he loves, from the wound that one gives him and killing him in turn.

But then... Ed's feelings towards him turn out to be stronger. And he doesn't go through with the stabbing, and Oswald smiles, and hugs him tighter, because it is his Ed and they actually have a future together and finally, finally it looks like they are going to get their happy ending, and Ed hugs him tighter back...

And life begins anew.

*although that particular phrase, with that wistful look, with that little smile, might also mean he already made up his mind and he is talking about an "if" situation - they would be stronger, no one could stop them, if they could be together, if it was his Ed, if he wasn't planning on killing Oswald and Oswald didn't have to kill him

[hot-edits-of-the-ice-cold]

Being a Gotham fan right now, especially an Oswald fan

is kind of weird after the USA presidential election this year 😭

Spoilers for season 3 episode 16/17:

I love Oswald and think he had more potential as mayor than Aubrey James, but that's in a world where the person in power needs to have connections to the crime world!! 😐

And oddly enough, this real-world election, which happened about 6 years after similar events in the show, was kind of similar to Oswald rise to power after Ed's betrayal:

Both gained a part of the people he wanted out of the city the last time: A big part of Oswald's campaign was getting "Hugo Strange's monster" out of Gotham but they were his "Army of Freaks" the second time around — one of Trump's big things during his first campaign was building a wall bordering on Mexico, whereas the third time he tried to get elected, he managed to gain support from Latino Americans, including people whose family member could have to leave under his policies 😯

Not to mention that they both tried to steal the election.

At the moment watching Gotham and the news can be a bit much for me, do any people feel similar?

Cause so many of the things Americans are facing are dystopian elements in gotham:

police corruption (immunity)

a criminal, who has and will contintue to express his dislike of (certain) people, becoming their leader

bad healthcare (abortion too probably, maybe contraception 👀)

poverty

families breaking apart

gender-based violence (I hope no-fault divorce won't be ended)

ostracism/deportation

If you want to see specific examples, here's the edit I made of the parallels:

The Dystopian World of Gotham (Can Be Seen as a Modern AU/Parallels to the USA in 2024) on Youtube (I recommend you watch it there because of the format but it's also on Tiktok)

In any case: please someone edit chief of staff!Ed with eyeliner 💚 Like next to tanned!Oswald or something 💜 Let's ignore that Trump has an actual chief of staff too 🤫

[Edit: someone pointed out that they thought my comparisons made the real problem seem smaller & mentioned a few other things like reading into this that I meant to call latinos monsters, (what the hell?) 🤨. If you feel similarly, you can check out my clarifying response]

[salswitchtrial]

Oswald just existing makes Ed angry because he's everything Ed wants to be but he's still miserable, he's everything Ed wants to be but he cherishes the exact parts of himself Ed thinks being a villain will get rid of

[fanfic-the-wish-your-heart-makes]

About Oswald's injuries!!!

I don't have a picture, but if you search the scene where Sofia rubs his leg on YouTube, you can see his ankle gets red and swollen after overuse. I imagine his knee to be a little twisted as well.

Thank you!

I found the video with "Sofia Oswald Cobblepot leg" 😂

It mainly consists of her looking pretty and making me worry that she'll hurt him eventually 🙈🥺

This is the most leg I managed to screenshot:

It's uhm, very little but I'm afraid I'd see too many spoilers if I searched for more 😭

In any case, your description's really helpful 😊❤

[phemiec]

Gender/orientation headcanons about Gotham 2014 Edward Nygma and Oswald Cobblepot under the cut. More rambling character analysis than anything but hey enjoy.

(Feel free to fight me in the comments/reblogs. I love discussing this stuff and would like to hear other's interpretations as well.)

So getting right into it, Oswald I really love as a trans man, but also as a cis man who was denied acceptance as male much the same way Brienne of tarth is a cis woman denied acceptance as female. Either feels like a very feasible read.

Because of his inability to conform to masculine norms and ideals, he has had to claw his own identity as a man out for himself with very few role models and little support.

It's obvious his presentation, when he's able to control it, is very important to him, and the expensive and tailored suits, his styled hair etc, are very vital to his sense of identity which, while not manly in the mainstream sense, represent a masculine ideal to him and are empowering to his sense of self.

For that reason I think of him as very binary. Even when he dresses more typically "feminine", it's in the context of being a man and forging his own self determined male identity.

Edward is another beast entirely to me though. Unlike Oswald who is shown to have equal contempt/respect for the people around him, male or female, and treats men and women mostly the same, for better or worse: Edward is distinctly shown to treat men and women differently, but as he is foremost a narcissist, they represent different reflections of himself.

He sees women as trophies and affirmations of his success and power as a man, and other men as threats or challenges to that identity. His notions of gender are antiquated, and while he does follow Lee briefly, he does not really afford women the sort of respect of agency he shows to men. Masculinity to him is about conformity, and then later about power.

He tries to impress the men he is interested in by challenging them, testing their limits and proving his superiority over them intellectually. With the women he is interested in, he attempts to conform himself to their needs and become the perfect partner for each of them in order to earn their validation.

He only does both behaviors for Lee and Oswald, which is part of the threat they pose to him, they challenge the boundries of acceptable behavior he's allowed himself, and the reason he tries to kill both is (yes, his ego, but also) because they refuse to conform to the boxes he assigns to men and women, or buy into the ideal of himself he attempts to project, and instead they both demand vulnerability and self-awareness from him, and also they demand he sees them as themselves, as individuals and not reflections. Which is, of course, terrifying to him.

Anyway to Sum-up: Oswald is a binary (either trans or cis) man, demi-sexual and pan-romantic. He isn't really focused on sex at all and can't be straightforwardly seduced, but is very vulnerable to intimately platonic and romantic manipulation, less so as the show goes on but he still basically does everything he does for love, love of his favorite individuals, of groups, of the city itself. He'll say it's about respect and power but everything comes down to wanting love and acceptance.

Edward in the other hand is a bi enby so deep in the fucking closet he needs to be pried out like an impacted tooth. His sexuality is anybody interesting and smart who can affirm/reflect something about himself, and his gender is a riddle wrapped in a puzzle inside a massive attention whore. He is a Chris Fleming-coded theater nerd and his gender is showpig, he just wants a big blue ribbon at the county fair.  He is literally only a man because he thinks he can win at it, and that's that on that.

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

If you hallucinate closely enough, you can even hear "Live, laugh, laugh" 😂

The video no one asked for.

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

Fun Little Gotham Detail (Season 3 Edward Nygma)

In episode 17, we see a picture of Ed on television:

The photograph in question is from the GCPD scene where he makes a big entrance and sarcastically says that he's glad to be back 😂

Meaning that there was either a photographer there that day who was told to take a picture of the sassy ex employee or that they had the idea themselves.

[pengylove]

Ok, but the way I see it, it's not about Oswald being the only one who truly sees "Riddler" aka "someone stronger, smarter etc" inside Ed, besides Ed.

Oh, Oswald sees "Riddler" alright, but he sees him for what he truly is - a parasite, a personality that manipulates Ed for his own gain, a personality that, eventually, will destroy Ed.

Oswald saw just what Riddler does to Ed and he doesn't want that for him, he knows that the more Riddler wins, the more Ed loses.

( Which is probably why he was going to kill Riddler/Ed in the infamous "hug with knives" scene, if Riddler/Ed stabbed him first, thus proving he is more Riddler than Ed, as I wrote here )

No, I think it's about Oswald being the only one (literally the only one, because even Ed doesn't see that) who truly sees Ed for who he is.

I think it's about Oswald being the only one who sees and knows that Ed is much stronger and smarter etc etc than Ed himself gives himself credit for.

That Ed doesn't need "Riddler", that he is strong, brilliant and magnificent just the way he is.

And it's honestly tragic that Oswald is the only one who sees that.

But it also explains most of the mess from S3 onward, because Riddler doesn't need Oswald in Ed's life, he needs him to be as far from Ed as possible, because not only does Oswald in Ed's eyes fulfills the purpose Riddler takes upon himself - to be Ed's guide so he can manipulate the hell out of him - but he, the bastard, also strives to raise Ed's sense of self-worth and convince him he doesn't need anyone else (doesn't need him, Riddler), that he is enough on his own... and that just won't do.

[salswitchtrial]

continuing with the theme of being equals that Ed and Oswald have through the whole show, another reason they didn't work out in season 3 (other than the murder, betrayal, denial) is that theyre not equals.

I don't mean in the obvious way of Oswald being Ed's boss and an experienced criminal, psychologically they're at completely different points.

Oswald is the most powerful he's ever been, running Gotham both legally and illegally, but he's vulnerable. He's the king of Gotham, so he can't use this insane drive for power as a distraction anymore like he has through the whole show. All of it is crashing down on him, his parents deaths, being brainwashed, more long term issues like, depression, loneliness. He's powerful enough to feel safe to process it all.(and he's honestly a little delirious from how depressed he is)

And where is Ed's mind during all this? Deep in that same distraction and denial Oswald just got out of, all of his walls are way up. He's not over Kristen, he had to get over it enough to find the body at the GCPD, he never even processed the trauma,(which is why he runs to Isabellas arms so easily) just straight to super villainy!

Neither of them care for the other at this point, I see the argument that it wasn't real love at this point, but I don't think they were even friends. Edward would take any distraction given and Oswald would take affection from anyone.

They're both, in the most unhealthy way ever, giving the other what they need in that moment. Ed finds distraction in having a powerful mob boss friend(his insane power trip during the entire mayor era is very entertaining), and Oswald gets to convince himself someone loves him!

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

With him being a chaos-loving circus kid,

a) he can balance it like that, it's not the boring normal way

b) If it breaks, so what? 🤭💅🤡

he captivates me why does he hold it like that

[fanfic-the-wish-your-heart-makes]

Totally normal Gotham fanfic question 😂

What would Oswald Cobblepot's injuries look like?

•his ankle aka his foot 👀 (totally normal thing to ask)

•his knee (that was hit by Fish with a baseball bat)

•the later bullet wound on his stomach (which I assume was healed in an unconventional way)

If you have any pictures (maybe some injuires are shown in seasons I haven't watched yet 🤔) or medically based theories (they don't have to be detailed, just how much would still be visible), it would be pretty helpful because researching such things has led me to some pictures I didn't want to see 😆

I'm thinking of writing a comforting body worship kinda fanfic in the future but I'm sure the answer to this could help a lot of Gotham writers 😊

Update: a helpful description and a scene from a season I havn't watched yet

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

How Gotham Characters' Religious Beliefs Change and Oswald Cobblepot's Fear of Hell 🔥

Inspired by @shyjusticewarrior 's post saying that we don't talk enough about Oswald's canonical fear of hell

Spoilers for S02 E12

My headcanon is that after people were resurrected, especially Theo Galavan, who Oswald saw die very clearly, some main characters (I'm thinking Jim too) kinda became agnostic. Sure, a miracle just happened, but what a weird one. Was Theo in hell? Mhm, he came back with a god complex and badass powers instead of traumatized, does it really matter?

Also let's not forget that Oswald was willing to die/okay with it multiple times, either for loved ones or because he hit rock bottom. 😢

In total, a lot of Gotham characters start out with a big fear of hell because if it's used to instill fear in Gothamites, it must be horrifying with how bad Gotham already is. And then the resurrections start.

[fanfic-the-wish-your-heart-makes]

💔 I just watched Gotham season 3 episode 14

"The Gentle Art of Making Enemies" and I'm not okay 😭

This might be my most incoherent blog entry->

What the hell was that?

Spoilers for it:

Ed seemed to hesitate so much and he !;@,% !! Ugh! I thought writing fanfic for episode 11 would be the hardest but aaah, what if it's even worse? It totally might be.

I'll still try to bring comfort into it when I write that chapter in my Nygmobs x reader series but ugh!

And the way he grabbed Oswald's shirt??! Did he want to pull him in & say something? And then didn't? What are your interpretations?

I think Ed still liked a part of Oswald 😥🤧

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

As opposed to Fish Mooney? 🤭😂

But yeah, the flamboyancy went up 💖

The henchpeople of Gotham must be like…wtf at the change over the last five or so years. Like, this town used to be run by the Falcones and Maronis and people like Fish Mooney. Some of them were extra as hell, but, you know, it was mostly just a lot of organized crime mafia families to deal with. A system that’s recognizable from any sort of corrupt city. But, now? Everybody’s running around in a brightly colored costume with a gimmick and an alter ego. There’s a demon clown boy poisoning Gotham’s water supply every other week, you can’t run a heist with that gangly former forensic scientist in his glittery green suit without him spray painting a fucking riddle on the wall, and the foremost crime boss is a man in purple furs people call the “Penguin.” I’m just saying, that must be a hell of a transition when you’re just a low-time criminal trying to find work week to week. 

[fantastic-nonsense]

hey i saw your answer to the ask about alfred making damian robin in battle for the cowl. while i 100% agree that is not what happened in bftc, outside of that comic i think alfred has a lot more involvement. im not sure if this is a post-crisis exclusive blog, but in secret origins (2014) #4 we see alfred's feelings on damian and his conclusion that damian would listen to no one else except his father. so alfred forges a letter from bruce that asks damian to be robin. the end of the comic shows that dick knows alfred forged that letter but imo leaves it pretty open-ended as far as dick's decision. if you ask me, i think dick talked to alfred about damian being his robin or alfred picked up that things were going to way and decided to pull this to make that transition easier for everyone. sorry is this is weirdly nitpicky or contrarian im just really a sucker for alfred and damian's relationship.

[referencing this response on how the transition from Tim to Damian as Robin was handled]

Preface: I am not a post-Crisis universe exclusive blog (far from it), but since 1) the New 52 era's attempts at dealing with the Batfamily are a mess and a pain to deal with for a variety of reasons, and 2) the post-Crisis universe was and remains the definitive interpretation for most of the Batfamily's history and the basis for their interactions with each other, it's what I tend to default to when writing meta...especially in cases where the events under discussion originally happened in post-Crisis continuity. The exceptions to that tend to be characters introduced post-Flashpoint (ex: Duke), who have no previous continuity bogging them down, and characters who have had the majority of their stories and development take place post-Flashpoint (ex: Damian).

That being said, while I am aware that Secret Origins (2014) and particularly that story exists and have read it, I tend to default to ignoring it for a few reasons:

One, it's a story whose events make little sense within either post-Crisis continuity or post-Flashpoint continuity as they otherwise exist; minimally, the timeline doesn't match up in either case.

More specifically for the purposes of writing a meta about the transfer of the Robin mantle from Tim to Damian, it rewrites Damian into the pre-Reborn era Batfamily very awkwardly by pretending he was always there. It shows a League clothes-clad Damian taking on Victor Zsasz and Professor Pyg (which he did not do until he was already Dick's Robin) while pretending that Bruce had time to try and connect with him before he "died" (which, he didn't; Damian appears in two stories prior to Battle for the Cowl—Batman & Son and Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul—and his interactions with Bruce are fairly minimal in Resurrection).

It is a clumsy attempt to integrate Damian into the pre-Batman R.I.P timeline that ignores all of the ways in which Damian's early relationships with his father and the rest of the Batfam (particularly Dick and Tim) are directly informed by the fact that he wasn't there during that time period:

[Alfred, Dick, and Tim watch The Magnificent Seven in Wayne Manor in the immediate aftermath of Bruce's death. Damian is not present, as he was still living with Talia. An empty chair between Dick and Tim marks Bruce's usual 'movie night' seat] -Nightwing #151 (2009)

I thus find it very unhelpful to use in any capacity when discussing and analyzing interactions between those characters in the aftermath of Bruce's death.

Two, while I have no love for Battle for the Cowl, Tomasi effectively ignoring it completely beyond "Gotham was in chaos following Bruce's death" doesn't sit right with me either, especially since it was referenced (even obliquely) in several other New 52-era books.

Three, I love Alfred and Damian's relationship. I think it's one of Damian's most important relationships and we should talk more about it. But I also love Alfred and Dick's relationship, so I'm not particularly enamored with a reimagining where Alfred is the one who orchestrates Damian's takeover of the Robin mantle largely unilaterally. That's not his call to make beyond a suggestion to Dick that it might be good for him. I also think it takes a lot of agency away from Dick in the one transfer of his mantle that he canonically actually has control over and undermines a big aspect of Dick and Damian's relationship development to take those decisions out of Dick's hands and give them to "Bruce."

Four, and probably most importantly: that story is never referenced before or after that issue. That origin for Damian is long gone. Its portrayal of his childhood was revamped in Robin: Son of Batman. Its reconceptualization of Damian's entrance into the Batfamily has not been acknowledged since. DC's larger refusal to acknowledge Dick and Damian's time as Batman and Robin beyond subtle references ended during the Rebirth era. New 52!Tim quite literally wasn't Tim Drake and was only restored to being himself again post-Rebirth, so 99% of the interactions between Tim and Damian from 2011-2016 have been effectively discarded as non-canon. And whenever Damian becoming Robin is referenced after Secret Origins #4, it is nearly always referenced as Dick choosing him as Robin rather than him becoming Robin "at his father's request." So there's little incentive for me to acknowledge it given that it generally appears to not be canon beyond the scope of the New 52 era of post-Flashpoint continuity.

I'm sorry that this probably isn't the answer you wanted to read, but I hope this gives you a better idea of why I specifically choose to stick to post-Crisis and post-Rebirth continuities when discussing the transfer of the Robin mantle from Tim to Damian.