#gos2 opinion

[itshermocrates]

Idk if this will be a very unpopular opinion or even something problematic but I just read some takes about Aziraphale choosing Heaven and not Crowley because that's the best for the world, so he is choosing the greater good before his own happiness, and I'm so sorry but I completely disagree with this

I don't think Aziraphale thought about what was best for the world at all, I'm 100% with Crowley when he says that Aziraphale doesn't know what he is choosing because in his mind, there was no in depth analysis about what could actually be the best decision for humanity.

Aziraphale said it himself, he said that Heaven is good, it's truth, is the best option, it always have been in his mind, and if he hadn't returned to Heaven any sooner it was only because he did not have the chance.

He has always thought that Heaven was better than Hell, that angels were better (coughs superior coughs) than demons, he was convinced of this when he was in Heaven and even afterwards, the idea was still too deeply rooted on his mind to be completely gone. Aziraphale found it very hard to see Heaven's wrongs and the only person who was capable to notice them was Crowley, who well, yeah, is a demon, but not like that.

While Crowley discovered Heaven's faults with his own very fall (let me remind you he fell because he dared to ask why all the creation should be destroyed despite being so young), and refused to be part of the system following blindly all of its rules and commands, Aziraphale has not seen these faults yet. He still sees Heaven as the good guys, the morally superior side of the coin. He still sees demons as the bad guys, even if Crowley has presented him a wide scale of grays.

This black and white worldview is what is holding him back. He still believes that Heaven can do no wrong, while Crowley can no longer ignore the truth, how both sides are equally bad for humanity, and therefore none of them is a good choice at all.

When Crowley says "You can't leave this bookshop."

Yeah, he's talking about them (you can't leave me), but he's also talking about all the good things they've done on Earth as "neutral agents", not an angel working strictly under Heaven's commands or a demon following Hell's orders. The bookshop is the place where they meet, but also their "home base", the place to return as they keep working "on their own" with Humanity's best interests in mind, and only that.

Crowley is trying to make him see that he's leaving a life in which they could simply work for what they considered to be truly right together. It feels more like a "you can't stopping helping them" "you can't stop doing what it's needed to be done" "you can't leave them" "you can't leave me".

And when Aziraphale responds "Nothing lasts forever."

It's just another proof of this black and white mentallity he can't scape. The bookshop was just a replacement for Heaven, something that made him feel like he was still part of the good guys, even if he technically wasn't anymore. The bookshop was just a stage he needed to overcome between his exile and his return to Heaven, not something he truly wanted to mantain for himself.

Aziraphale never lost his faith in Heaven, he never felt the disappointment Crowley felt and never saw it as it truly was. He still believes in what Heaven symbolizes, and is not capable of fully questioning it yet.

When he talks about changing things, he's not even aware of all that it is to change or how deeply rooted the problem really is, and Crowley tells him so. Crowley is so hurt by Aziraphale because he thought they were way pass all of that, that they were above all of the Heaven vs Hell bullshit, and he thought that doing good in their own way was enough for Aziraphale. But it was not.

Crowley sees that what they've done is not enough for Aziraphale and it will never be because they are not in Heaven. He discovers that there's nothing good enough for Aziraphale to feel satisfied with what they have because Crowley is not enough. He's a demon after all, and true goodness lays in Heaven.

And when Crowley kisses him, and Aziraphale says "I forgive you."

Crowley finds out that his kiss, something that I personally read as a fragment of what they could have if they remained "neutral", of all the possibilities they have yet to explore, all the feelings they could stop hidding; is misunderstood by Aziraphale as some sort of tempting act????

Crowley must have poured that kiss with all the hope he had for a better future, a future together. He must have pushed all his fears to the side, just for one second, so he could finally express how he truly felt, how deeply in love he was, and Aziraphale reads this as some sort of trick that needs to be forgiven?

Boy, I'm so very much with Crowley in this.

I've seen people commenting on how manipulative Crowley must have been perceived by Aziraphale (in his POV, u know), but I don't think he forgives Crowley for his "failed attempt of manipulation". I don't think he sees this that way in the slightest to be honest.

I think the "I forgive you" can have:

A very simple meaning "I forgive you for kissing me like that without my consent". You guys know Aziraphale could come up with something like this, he's still an angel after all.

A deeper meaning just for the gays who love to torture themselves as much as they can "I forgive you for leaving me and choosing your own path." I can see Aziraphale considering Crowley's desicion as something selfish, and despite everything, he wants to let him know that it's okay, he can choose his own happiness above whatever thing they currently have.

Of course, everyone can have their opinion and we can all disagree, but I think some people don't properly understand just how deep into that Black and White worldview Aziraphale still is. He still considers demons to be inferior to angels, even if he knows they are just as complex as human beings. This is a deeply rooted "truth" he can't simply shake off like Crowley did, and until he does, he won't be able to choose Crowley and be happy.

[hot-take-tournament]

HOT TAKE TOURNAMENT

POST PRE PRELIMINARY #127

Submission 406

Crowley and Aziraphale should not kiss in season 2

I wouldn't be upset if it happens, but it somehow doesn't really feel like them. They're an angel and a demon and not human, they experience attraction differently than humans. Why should their relationship succumb to standards for human relationships? They are absolutely in love though, and the way the show portrays their relationship is absolutely beautiful, it conveys their love for each other even though they don't really have any physical contact, and that's what I love about it. As aroace person, I see myself represented in them. If a kiss does happen, it has to be done right and shouldn't be a big thing the show builds up to, it should just happen.

Pre-preliminaries will be used to determine what qualifies as a hot take. Propaganda is encouraged!

Also, remember to reblog your favourite polls for exposure!

[rraaarr]

GO2 Spoilers ahead! Honestly I love all the theories (coffee, lie, magic trick) and think they're fun, interesting, and thorough, and while I think people are definitely asking the right questions, I personally don't think the Metatron overtly threatened Aziraphale or altered his state of mind in any way.

(the magic trick theory perhaps suggests that metatron just changed things to make Aziraphale more likely to say yes to him, but I don't know if I personally find that necessary)

There is Definitely Somethig Up with how Aziraphale retells his convo with the Metatron, but I really don't think it was an overt threat, esp not one to Crowley

(I think an overt threat to Crowley wouldve seen Aziraphale try to signal to Crowley in some way, they're good at that. And a pretty different/more stubborn,angry reaction on Azis part)

I could def be proven wrong next season, but Aziraphale seems Genuinely excited about the prospect of being Angels together with Crowley in Heaven and wanting that is 99.99% within his character.

Reasons I'm about to get into, but it isn't ONLY that it is within his character to want this, but it's also within his character:

To want to Check with Crowley First

Like, we see Aziraphale Check in with Crowkey before even TALKING to the Metatron. He isn't going to turn down an offer of Angelic Status on Crowley's behalf Without Asking

Like, yes of course Aziraphale is Excited, he Wants Crowley to say yes, there may have even been a disagreement or arguement if Crowley had said "oh you can tell them my answer is a resounding no."Like they may have still had the same convo bc Aziraphale hadn't been prepared for a No answer. (Ppl do this all the time, ask a genuine question then getting upset when the answer is no)

But ppl, I think Aziraphale was Attempting to Ask Crowley for their opinion, for what they wanted because Aziraphale never actually at any point tells Metatron "Yes" (or no)

I think being Angels with Crowley in a Heaven Aziraphale feels he can control ticks so many boxes of what he wants.

It lets Aziraphale:

Be together with Crowley in a way that is Safe for them both (his favorite thing)

It lets Aziraphale Do good and Help the Humans (his other favorite thing)---this may be a post for another time, but BOTH Azi and Crowley seem genuinely concerned for the souls and well being of the Humans they interact with that aren't, you know, freaking nazis. We see this with both Elspeth And Sitis (Crowley stops her from cursing God)

It lets Aziraphale give Crowley something back that he feels was taken away from Crowley unfairly (and in turn restore his sense of balance with the universe)

It lets Aziraphale be sure there won't be another Armageddon

It lets Aziraphale repay a debt i think he may feel he owes Crowley

It could even let Aziraphale help other angels he sees as like himself, hat he has something in common with like Muriel

And Aziraphale can always pop back down to earth when he likes

Like there are so many reasons for Aziraphale to think this is a good idea.

And those reasons are Not Even ALL wrong

The problem is Crowley doesnt Want to, for good reason, and Aziraphale will probably have less power than he thinks

Aziraphale Wanted to be able to say Yes

And he Might have said no to the Metatron if he'd just Asked Crowley with clear words on Crowleys opinion instead of just assuming and then being too shocked and hurt by Crowleys judgement and refusal to even be like "well I didn't answer dear, I wanted to check with you first. "

All that being said, I DO think Metatron subtly threatened Aziraphale, enough where Aziraphale still cared about safety, didn't forget that he and Crowley were unsafe, that Metatron reminded him in subtle ways of all the info that could be used against them Both, all while seeming a friend. I think the Or Death was implied, but I don't think Aziraphale quite caught on cognitively but instinctively (see reason number 1)

Metatron went for an obvious carrot and a subtle stick.

[shousimi]

Good omens season 2 mini meta

alright good omens I’m not done ranting about the second season yet BECAUSE (spoilers under cut)

There’s a few things that I can’t stop thinking about:

1. Crowley was his happiest this season in heaven

Did anyone see how giggly Crowley is in heaven? He’s smiling, chuckling and jumping around and snorting with Muriel, and then again with Saraqael, and then again when going down the lift. 

And I know it isn’t heaven specifically that’s making him giggle: it’s doing something mischievous (just like how he laughs when Aziraphale tells him about the halo thing) but isn’t it ironic? That this is the happiest we see him in the present time, and it’s when he’s snuck into heaven? It’s not heaven itself that makes him happy, but regardless, in this season we see him giggling and in a good mood the longest when he’s in heaven. 

2. Aziraphale’s Halo

This is something my sister pointed out, and I don’t want to give more attention to it partly because I don’t want to believe it. But if we think about foreshadowing in this season, Aziraphale literally takes off his halo and throws it down. I know it’s something angels do during war, and the halo is more of a weapon than a symbol. but still, could it be foreshadowing? The immediate worry that he could have caused a war, and how pleased Crowley was by that. If it is alluding to something in the next season, it’s either Aziraphale falling (I hate that idea) OR Aziraphale declaring war, rejecting both heaven and hell as well as his status as an angel. 

3. Aziraphale pulls Crowley in for the kiss

I am SICK of no one talking about this (jk). but right on minute 47:00 of episode 6, right before the camera shifts again, Aziraphales hands hover before getting closer to Crowleys back, and then their bodies shift closer together as if by force. I FULLY believe Aziraphale used his hands to pull Crowley in closer before pulling them away in the next shot after realizing what he did. 

I’ve rewatched those few seconds so many times that no one can convince me thats not what happened. 

4. Aziraphale has been wooing Crowley this entire season

Crowley only realized he was in love with Aziraphale in the final episodes. 

I think Aziraphale has known since the start. 

He’s been establishing intimacy with Crowley this entire season. For example, why ask to borrow his Bentley now? Like Crowley says, he likes taking the train. And instead of just asking to borrow it, why say that it’s “our” car? Why imply that it’s their bookshop?

He was constantly pushing Crowleys limits to see how far he can get, from the apology dance to borrowing his car and then asking them to dance together. 

And Crowley lets him. He does the dance, he lets him use the car (though he’s not happy about it), and he dances with him even though he says he doesn’t dance. Aziraphale has been establishing an “us” from the beginning, and Crowley let’s him, mostly. 

Crowley lets him borrow the car, but doesn’t allow Aziraphale any liberties with it. Crowley takes care of his bookshop, and doesn’t sell any of the books. but he also immediately takes his plants out of the bookshop before Aziraphale even has a chance to step inside. I’m sure he’s uncomfortable with Gabriel there, but this is also him asserting his independence, saying no to an “us” implicitly. 

5. The ball

“Why were we all dancing?”

“I thought it might make you realize that [Maggie] loved you, and then you’d fall in love with her”

This might be a bit of a stretch, but HEAR ME OUT. What if, what IF, this is what Aziraphale was trying to do but with himself and Crowley?

Think: his ‘wait and see’, keeping the ball a surprise and shooing Crowley out of the shop while he sets up. His weird insistence on creating a perfect atmosphere at the expense of ignoring any and all dangers outside, which he knows can’t enter the bookshop anyways. Crowley is panicking, while Aziraphale literally manufactured a romantic setting and then dragged Crowley to dance with him, excited and giggling. If there weren’t demons outside the bookshop (which Aziraphale didn’t know about yet and was desperately trying to ignore any distractions), and Crowley wasn’t busy panicking, how would that scene have gone differently? 

Aziraphale was trying to establish an ‘us’ this whole time, and in the end Crowley was too. But their timing was tragically off. 

(6. More in the tags about the metatron btw.) 

[inconveniently-discorporated]

GOOD OMENS SEASON 2 EPISODE 3 - The minisode

So idk if this is going to be a very popular opinion, but I'm not sure how I felt about the minisode.

I liked the premise. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that they included the conversation from the book that didn't show up in episode one.

However... The pacing towards the end was a little weird to me. And the dialogue, and the shrinking/biggering thing. It got very silly, but like, in a way that didn't feel very characteristic IMO.

And the part where Aziraphale holds Crowley up -- it feels like that should be a Very Big Deal, and it sort of just didn't feel like it from the pacing of it. I've felt a little bit in these first 3 episodes like we went from "wall slam is the closest we'll get, barely touching each other ever" to "we are incredibly married in every other aspect besides physically" and it would be nice to have more of a bridge, I think, where we actually saw that transition (especially from Aziraphale).

I do like the Scottish accent in the minisode though. Hooray for David Tennant being able to sound more like himself. 😂

[hauntedsnake]

Good Omens Season 2 Rant and Spoilers

I can't even begin to explain how much I hate the Crowley was a higher up thing. No, he was not. He was a regular angel that would love unions. Crowley's powers are amazing because he has imagination and he cares. Deeply. And I don't like either how it paints him in a "the special one" light, which I personally refuse as I think the text implies otherwise. He is special because underneath it all Crowley is an optimist.

What they got right is that he wouldn't go back to heaven, he doesn't want it, he doesn't need it.I love that demon your honor.

[ssunrey]

These are the days of our life by queen is maybe ineffable husbands coded

[octarineblues]

ok i am back in a place with internet, just binge watched the last four episodes and BRO. i was not emotionally prepared. it was so good tho, i felt like any other ending (az's decision) would not be in character for the place he's in. but still, oh my god. ohmygod. heartbreaking. i hope everyone is doing okay.

[andiv3r]

This is gonna be a much longer post than I usually make. Ridiculous as it seems, I'm reblogging this as an opening to talk about the way my dad and I STRONGLY differ on the topic of Good Omens S2.

Essentially, my dad always saw the story of Crowley and Aziraphale as one of deep friendship, and loved that it was one of the few friendship stories that portrayed a bond like that without making it romantic. It's been his favorite book for a long time, he absolutely LOVED Season 1 of the show...

But, of course, he was very irritated by Season 2. Because "Oh my FUCKING GOD, of COURSE now it's romantic. TV just CAN'T leave two friends as just friends, that would be RIDICULOUS."

Cue his (aroace, mind you) son (me) saying, "Yeah. Well. I usually hate that too, except... it feels like a natural move forward for this show. They are clearly friends, but it always seemed like it was leading toward romance from what I was watching..."

He argued that he felt they deviated too strongly from the book with this interpretation, and he also said that my being queer likely influenced how willing I was to accept any LGBTQ+ representation on TV, which... okay, fair enough. I'll go read the book. I probably should have done that anyways. Maybe then I'll see what he means. Then I'll see where it was VERY CLEARLY meant to be a close friendship bond that could not have EVER become romantic or have been taken as romantic.

Except that didn't happen.

I read the book, alright, and I fucking LOVED it. I've been a reader all my life. I always prefer books to television, so it came as no surprise to me when I immediately decided I liked the Good Omens book FAR more than the show (not to say anything bad about the show; it is still my favorite show, I still adore it). And yet... there was no sudden revelation of "ohhh, THIS is why it seems abnormal for them to have romantic feelings toward one another in the show", or anything like that. If anything, reading the book did the opposite. Those small moments, everything about their relationship in the book, hit me so much harder while reading it. It wasn't like, "oh, this is very clearly a romance", more of a "they kind of seem like they both like one another in a way that's different from friendship" way of taking it.

Again, I am queer, so logically, the fact that I see queerness in their relationship isn't all that strange. And the fact that my dad, a cishet man, does not? Equally normal. At this point, we've accepted that we're different people with different takes on the matter, and we enjoy this media in different ways because of it. I enjoy the fandom itself and talking about how beautiful Crowley and Aziraphale's romance is. He enjoys repeatedly reading the book and recommending only Season 1 of the show to people, claiming that Season 2 dropped in quality...

And that's okay. I disagree with him. STRONGLY. But. Y'know. Even within the same fandom, people have such different opinions that you can't really expect to agree, and you certainly can't get upset when other people DON'T agree. So, I've accepted that he doesn't like the way the story is progressing... and I love it so much that it's hard to exist.

[meatballlady]

Thoughts/Questions about ambiguous wording in GOS2: Looking Where the Furniture Isn't (somewhat unorganized) (also biased towards episodes I rewatch more)

PSA to not tag/ask Neil about any of this!! Metas/speculation are for the fans, not for the writers/production team.

Episode 1

"I worked very closely with upstairs on it" what/who is "upstairs"?

Why does Aziraphale have so much more knowledge than angel Crowley? Aziraphale has seen the plans and knows about the Earth and humans and Crowley doesn't at all (is this future Aziraphale with og Crowley? going back in time)

"Most of it [isn't] visible from earth" this implies there's more that Crowley knows about than we do, but does this mean anything?

Misspelling of urgency - This must mean something, otherwise why dedicate screentime to it?? Is Maggie possessed? I always get caught on this.

"I got your note" is that the same note we read?

Why aren't Maggie's internet orders not coming? What is that?

Why hasn't Maggie brought this up before? It doesn't seem urgent. Is she angling for an invitation? a welcome?

Shostakovich symphony is not 21 minutes, yet Aziraphale calls that out.

Repeated line - "i brought your mail"

"Hell doesn't care how jobs get done" "yeah I remember, they just care that somebody does them" look this whole scene is a book reference, but this line does it mean Crowley has been helping Shax out?

Crowleys "it's all rather pointless" line. It... I mean we know he thinks this already. It sounds very out of place. Is he trying to get a read on Shax's opinion? Is this a future scene? Is there a separate plotline that's hopeless that we're missing?

"Something's going down in the up" - weird wording, never addressed.

"Through your contact in the bookshop" who is the contact? Which bookshop?

Beginning of last movement is when Gabriel knocks - when is 21 minutes before that?

"Where here is and who you are and who I am" is this significant?

"I'm not saying anyone is complicit... if anyone is found helping him..." Then just says "book of life" - maybe those are two separate things?

Also! Michael never specifies Gabriel. "helping HIM" could refer to anyone.

Why tinking sound coming from Aziraphale so much? Pocket watch or something else?

No really, what is the Something Terrible?

"Terrible" and "Awful" used to mean... AWE full. like Great and Terrible. is that something?

What thing does Jimbriel have to give Aziraphale? Aziraphale only assumes it's the box but what is it?

"arms were aching because I had to carry that box for so long" 1. How long? are we missing something? 2. Is this the same box we see, or a different one?

When Aziraphale says "you aren't Gabriel" Jim responds, "then WHAT am I?" not who am I?

later he asks "what box?" and much later Aziraphale asks the same thing. Maybe they mean "which box of the ones we know about" and not "box, what do you mean, box?"

"something CLEVER you did before you pop" vs "it's nice to tell someone about the GOOD things I've done, now that I'm not reporting to Heaven" which one is it - clever or good? Does it matter?

Why isn't Aziraphale forthcoming about needing to discuss things outside of the bookshop when they're having coffee?

Why does Maggie leave her shop open when she goes to get a coffee?

Aziraphale's blinds are not closed during coffeeshop conversation, but it looks like a/c have only just walked in during next scene!!

Why is Crowley so careful to be ambiguous about talking about the execution, and then later just tells Jim? I noticed the bug (Real Gabriel) seems to be in the room with them during the e1 conversation. Maybe he and Jim are alone during the e5 conversation.

Why does Crowley get so publicly angry? Seems a bit ooc to me tbh

Why did Maggie/Nina's phones stop working?

"There is, of course, no question of replacing the surpreme archangel" Does that mean that they're definitely going to replace them or definitely not going to replace them??

"Heaven does not have a supreme archangel" ... "There is ALWAYS a Supreme Archangel" "Yes, and who is that?" oof. Yes who is the supreme archangel? why always?? they aren't in Heaven but they exist

Why didn't they think he'd gone to Earth before seeing the matchbox?

Crowley mentions Beelzebubs new face - he hasn't seen them since before they started dating Gabriel

Crowley does seem very convincing that he thinks extreme sanctions mean nothing

Crowley does do a Miracle on the traffic light

There are writing noises after Crowley comes in to apologize and says "you were right" for the first time. Also at the end of the dance there are shuffling noises.

Does Crowley really do the apology dance for trying to get away from Gabriel? A/C never specify. What was Crowley "wrong" about?

Crowley does say "let's hide him until we sort this all out"... "while we figure out what's *actually* going on"

"and now I have two friends" does Jim actually count Crowley in that or is he referring to other(s)?

We make sure nobody notices he's here while we "sort all this out"? Aziraphale is confused that he says "together"

move the miracle dials? Does this mean anything or just worldbuilding?

"short for James but people call me a lot of different things" ooh like what?

Aziraphale TOTALLY knows about Shax! Crowley's like, "you'll never guess who Shax asked about" They're 100% on the same page

Is the alarm the "awooga" noise????????!!!!?!!?

"There's a FORMER angel in this up to his bookshop owning neck"

So Mx. Anthony J'"compelled to walk on the grass instead of the path" Crowley respected the "This way up" sign for a whole week? 🙃

Episode 2

Gabriel personally witnessed Eve's birth? Does this have significance?

"absolutely I made an ass of myself" Are we missing something here? Is she just nervous? Or is.. like what??

Aziraphale gives a Look when Maggie says they were locked in the coffee shop last night. Was that significant?

"Right now I'm a bit out of miracles" - what?

There's a lack of using "bad" to mean good in hell, etc.

Love that Aziraphale implies that Maggie being his tenant has something with an obligation to be involved with her love life

Crowley also said they need to talk about last night's miracle. Why?

Aziraphale specifies the "Gabriel" miracle. idk is that something?

"we've got a problem and it's in your bookshop right now" is this the problem we know about? Crowley seems to think the love thing isn't the big deal

"amd there is an actual mystery associated with that song and That is the clue" i feel like this isnt exactly the same thing as what it actually is.? Does that mean the song is the clue or does it mean that the mystery itself is a clue? Does it matter?

"three nice people in the shop just now... they were in the shop. just now." like just now just now? like while they were in the pub??

"nah you can do better than that" has a miracle noise after??

Was Gabriel's first memory "when the morningstar sang together and all the angels shouted for joy"? or was their first memory God *saying* that? Also is it Gabriel we're talking to here?

Who are Keziah's "usual" angels?

love the detail that Job says "i loved my children" and immediately starts crying whereas sitis doesn't believe it at first. Job really does have faith.

Episode 3

Is their private discussion we see the same one Muriel is talking about?

"The miracle we seem to have accidentally performed" did they accidentally perform a large miracle, or was the miracle only "seemingly" an accident?

Do devices just bend to Aziraphale's whim like that, or is there another weird thing going on?

Aziraphale says "dr dalrymple" and Crowley corrects to Mr. Is that something?

when Aziraphale calls Crowley he says hes found "clues" plural

is it significant that Crowley hasn't done rain in a while?

"you have the advantage on me" does she? is Aziraphale humoring her?

Episode 4

Heating's knackered... girls won't go onstage because it's so cold... is this significant?

How do the zombies know to look in the bookshop? Do they think Aziraphale will be there or Crowley? Is it just that that's how they contacted him in the first place?

What's with the timeline on 1941? They're all out and about... is it a couple days later?

While demons like me... for hundreds and hundreds of millennia ???

Episode 5

Why is the big transporter out of service?

"If you're not him, then *what* are you?" Jim also says this ep 1. seems like a distinction.

The matchbox is still in Heaven.

When did Muriel meet Jim?

Jim leaves the window open after he stops jumping out the window

Crowley's test doesn't really prove much for me. If Jim was trying to get back to heaven to tell on them, death would be the fastest way

"If you aren't him, then WHAT are you?" again, what are you not who are you in reference to Gabriel.

"check in on Nina and Maggie and make sure *they* are on their way" does they refer to someone(s) else??

During the ball, where is Crowley between the Gabriel face thing and the dancing??

"I don't plan to harm you, only the humans in there with you" Why? Why isn't she threatening Aziraphale? Doesn't she want Gabriel? What is this line for??

After Jim comes back in after declaring himself to Shax, he's off screen for a long time. In a different outfit when we see him again

Aziraphale's box when Crowley starts bringing people outside. this is the same box that he leaves Nina and Maggie to fiddle with in ep6

might be a miracle blocker?? but Muriel brings back the elevator

6)

Nina's questions for posterity:

what is happening? (not simple)

why is everything so weird? (not simple)

This all started last week when the power went out, didn't it?

no, this all started a very long time ago, but also, yes.

"last week when the power went out" that's a different timeline than portrayed in the show. What's that about? It could be a cleverly hidden time skip.

Crowley knows Muriel's a 37th class scrivener?? Do they tell him when they arrest him? Or do they hang out offscreen?

Muriel catches onto the bee metaphor immediately. "you look like a murder hornet, or a snake"

"I have to tell you: You can all leave now, and no one will be hurt" Does he *have to* tell them?

clock ticking in last intro

"Where's the cardboard box?" "What box?" !!!

"Apparently if we do a miracle together it all works a bit too well" Why say this?? Also. Apparently? As in "we discovered that..." or as in "in an apparent way, but not a literal way..."

There's stuff in the cardboard box. Why?

"every day, something IS getting closer" -beez - why??

[thealogie]

ok idk if this is an upopular opinion but for me gos1 and gos2 crowley have a massive difference and gos1 crowley was WAY hotter im sorry. so like.. in order of attractiveness: s1 crowley > 14th doctor > s2 crowley

you don’t like season 2 crowley? “I would like to hnnnng”?

[bloggingboutburgers]

I thought I was aro but then you said you were disappointed by the ending of GOS2 and I really liked it so now I'm not sure. do you think that shipping people and wanting them to be together makes me less aro? is there another label for that?

Sorry if this feels rude or anything! Your opinion is totally valid and I definitely see where you're coming from, even if I don't agree with it. I'm just unsure whether or not it's an aro trait to not like romantic relationships in media at all. And by 'the writers' you probably mean Neil Gaiman who is also on Tumblr if you didn't know, he's pretty awesome! Wrote a lot of other stuff too, you should check it out. (Whoops that's kinda off topic sorry!)

Aaaaah, nonono, of course not, shipping people doesn't make anyone less aro! That's a very personal opinion of mine, everyone is entitled to have a different one regardless of orientation! I do think that me being aro-ace plays a lot into me not being into romantic/sexual shipping much, but it's not the only reason, surely, and it's not an obligation that should be expected of any aro or ace person either. Sorry if it ever comes across as that! I've said it before and I'll say it again – everyone's experience is different and I can only ever talk about my own. That doesn't mean anything for other people's experiences, if some people can relate it's awesome, but if not that's totally alright too!

By "the writers" I mean Neil Gaiman and John Finnemore, and p'much anyone who could've factored in this too, I mean, you never know. I'm fairly familiar with Neil Gaiman's work (never checked out his Tumblr but I've read some of his other books and interviews) and I agree, he seems like an incredibly smart person and his works are amazing from what I've seen thus far!! Definitely unparalleled out there, similarly to Pratchett's works (RIP). Which is why Good Omens was such an amazing book to begin with! One of the best I've ever read. So freakin hilarious too.

[rekushchan]

I agree with your friend there, I did not like it that there wasn't much in the way of plot. To me, all the build-up did not pay off.

I still found plenty to appreciate about the season and I will be eagerly watching Season 3 if we get one, but this was not for me. And that's alright. Not everyone can like everything and we are not wrong for feeling this way.

My friend seems to think that a lot of season 2 of good omens was filler and wasn't relevant to the plot at all (especially the past sruff like context). they're also the only person i know who thinks that season 2 was not good. They liked season 1 but think that the writing wasn't great and I'm on the verge of losing my mind because of them. Lord help me is there a way to change their mind or at least get your opinion on this? 😭🙏

No, there isn't. It's okay that your friend didn't like it. Not everyone will like everything. If everyone liked the same things we'd have so much less choice.

[orionsangel86]

Good Omens Season 2 - Overall Review

You know every now and then its nice to step outside of the echo chamber and get a fresh perspective on things. I've been looking at some negative reviews for GOS2 this evening after some critical comments came across my dash which was a surprise at first because my dash has otherwise been filled with GOS2 love and adoration (if perhaps also some odd theories floating around).

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it made me really consider mine, so I decided to write it down. I know I still have episode reviews for eps 2-6 to write up, which I will get to, but I needed to get this off my chest first. This is generally just a reaction post outlining all the things I liked and didn't like about GOS2. Under a cut because looooong.

I hadn't read the Good Omens book before I watched Season 1. I watched that show completely blind and my main reason for watching at the time was because

a) I'm always going to be a little bit in love with David Tennant and so watch absolutely everything he is in always no matter how horrible (Des was a particularly hard watch)

b) I had heard that GO was partially some of the original inspiration for Supernatural and I'll be a Supernatural slut til the end of time.

c) I love all things fantasy and it genuinely looked like a great show.

Whilst I loved the first season, the thing I loved about it, was Aziraphale and Crowley. I also very much enjoyed the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the Angels and Demons, and Anathama and Madam Tracey as characters.

I hated the kids. They were bloody awful and on every rewatch I have done in the past few years I have had to skip over their scenes. I find them completely unwatchable. I found Newt to be boring and Shadwell a pain in the ass. I don't find that particular brand of misogyny funny so his scenes are also just painful for me. I loathed the fact that he ended up with Madam Tracey in the end, AND that she changed who she was completely for him. What the FUCK was that all about?

Anyway, now that that is off my chest, the point I am making is that the only thing I really enjoyed about Good Omens was Crowley and Aziraphales love story plus a few of the awesome female characters they had helping them. I also enjoyed the quirky narration by God which I think had a distinctly Douglas Adam's feel to it (which I believe was the vibe Terry and Neil were going for at the time).

I have always been of the opinion that it was GOs faithfullness to the book which let it down. I read the book after watching the show and whilst it was a good book, it dragged on in parts, spent too long focusing on the kids, and Aziraphale and Crowley weren't quite as lovable in book format as they were brought to life by DT and MS. To me, the book was a 6/10, the show a 7/10. I was a fan of AziraCrow and their love story. I did not, and have not ever, believed they were "canon" in season 1 (though i was loathed to admit this due to the rabidity of the fandoms insistence that they were - which was spurred on by Gaiman much to his own detriment).

So when GOS2 came around I had no expectations that it would kick off with AziraCrow being all lovey dovey and shacked up - having confessed their love and living together as life partners - as I genuinely believe some GO fans expected to be the case - after all these are the fans that insisted it was canon in season 1! Surely that means they'll be together in season 2 right?

Well obviously that wasn't the case. First mistake for Neil Gaiman - maybe don't spend 4 years trying to convince your fanbase that these characters are already together and in love if you are going to write a whole second season revolving around the fact that they still aren't together.

I was also really worried when GOS2 was announced that they'd bring back the bloody kids, and Shadwell, and the other season 1 characters. I was very much relieved when I heard that wasn't the case. As much as I enjoyed Madam Tracey, she was ruined at the end of S1, and as much as I liked Anathama, I was very aware that her story was over the moment she burned the new prophecy book.

So going into Season 2, I was expecting and hoping for a few things:

The romantic development of AziraCrow from friends to lovers

More time with the angels and demons

A fun lesbian side story

Technically, I got all three things.

I am aware that GOS2 has its flaws. It's pacings a bit dodgy, and I do find some of the dialogue a bit jarring particularly in the Maggie and Nina scenes. The entire season has this slightly saccharine quality to it where I feel like if I watch it too many times too quickly I'll get sick from the sweetness. There needed to be a little bit more gruesomeness and angst to counteract all that sugar - Zombie Nazi's notwithstanding.

The Maggie and Nina mirrors to Aziraphale and Crowley were more heavy handed than in a season 8 MOTW episode of Supernatural. I've made that joke before, but it still stands. I wish that Neil had been a bit more subtle with it. As much as I like Maggie and Nina, they could have used a bit more development and a bit of distance from Zira and Crowley. I did find the scene where they sit down with Crowley at the end to basically tell him to get his shit together and tell Zira how he feels like something out of a fangirls dream. Does anyone remember that really OTT gay Hallmark style Christmas movie that came out last year? Single All The Way? Gods, when I first watched that movie I thought it was sweet, but it was so obviously taken from fanfiction that I couldn't take it seriously (I say this as someone who adores fanfiction and has huge respect for fanfiction writers - but we all start somewhere, and its usually as a teenager writing really sappy YAOI and that's what I feel inspired Single All The Way - side note: Trixie and Katya's review of Single All The Way is one of the funniest things I've ever watched, nothing like watching two drag queens absolutely destroy queer media that was absolutely NOT written with gay men in mind)). Anyway, I mention SATW because there is a scene towards the end of the movie where two teenage girls sit the protagonist down and tell him that he's an idiot who is clearly in love with his best friend and he should go confess his love before its too late.

Look I'm sure we've all had that fantasy. I know I did when it came to Destiel for years. Nothing better than picturing myself standing in the bunker shaking Dean Winchester by the shoulders yelling at him to go kiss Castiel because goddammit that angel needs to know he's loved!

It's a great fantasy. But I DO NOT want to EVER see it played out for real in ANY media. When I realised that this was exactly what was happening in GOS2 I curled up into a ball and screamed into my hands, and not in a good way. That was... bad. Someone slap Neil on the wrist for that terrible decision. There were a dozen better ways they could have explained the AziraCrow miscommunication issue.

Having said all this, everything else about GOS2 I adored. There is criticism about the minisodes. Sure, they are totally expansions on the popularity of Season 1's episode 3 opener, and are rather self indulgent and not really connected to the main Gabriel mystery, but they are each of them an absolute blast. They dig deeper into AziraCrow's relationship and help to understand a bit more of their dynamic and the underlying issues that they have been facing for their entire friendship.

I totally understand where people may criticise the Gabriel/Beelzebub romance coming out of left field as well. It was totally unexpected and yeah, sure, Gabriel was basically the villain of season 1, so I can understand the irritation and him getting to have a happy ever after love story when he has never even apologised to Zira. But I gotta be honest, I don't really care. I thought it was hilarious and a fun twist as well as well as a much more subtle narrative mirror to AziraCrow than Maggie and Nina were. You can accuse Neil of taking that idea from fans if you want, its totally possible that he came across some ineffable beurocracy fanart and thought huh, that could be fun. But I don't care if he did, or if it did come to him completely separately to the fans. I never shipped them, but I find it hilarious in the same way I find the Dean/Crowley ship in SPN hilarious. That went canon too, much to the horror of the entire SPN fandom. NO ONE ASKED FOR DROWLEY and yet they inflicted it on us anyway... I'll never quite get over that fact.

As for Aziraphale's characterisations. I disagree with everyone who says he was out of character. I love that he's still struggling with the idea of not being part of heaven. I love that he is still dealing with the millennia of abuse and brainwashing and manipulation. I love that he still hasn't quite grasped the tyranny and institutional corruption at Heaven's heart. I found the end of season 1 to be very satisfying in a lot of ways (other than the lack of handholding in the Ritz) but when I really think about it, Season 1 really doesn't resolve Zira's issues with Heaven. He get's discorporated, decides he doesn't want to fight, goes back to Earth and then he's dealing with the apocalypse and he never actually has any communication with Heaven again after that, because it's Crowley who goes to Heaven in his place and witnesses just how cruel they are (at least Hell gave Crowley a trial).

Nothing happens at the end of season 1 that could be enough to break him away from 6000 years of cult-like indoctrination. He still puts it down to a few bad angels. He never actually talks to God, and whilst the Metatron disappoints him, its very easy to believe that Zira would change his mind after receiving a few kind words, and the promise of restoring Crowley to full angelhood.

Crowley was perfect throughout the entire season. 10/10. No notes. Absolutely utter perfection. Outstanding performance from DT, I laughed, I cried, I wept, I desperately want to hug Crowley and let him cry on my shoulder for an entire night.

Other things I adored about the season include the entirety of episode 5 The Ball. My fave episode. It was so silly and adorable and funny. The entire "Seamstress" conversation had me rolling with laughter. Shout out to Donna Preston (Our girl Despair) who absolutely stole every scene she was in. Miranda Richardson shines as Shax (an excellent choice to recast her as a new character after the butchering of Madam Tracey's character at the end of S1). I think Muriel was a bit underutilised but still loved their wide eyed innocence and naivity.

The biggest thing I think was missing was Francis McDormand's narration as God. They brought her back for episode 2 for a very minor role, I don't understand why Neil couldn't have just had God narrate it again, with more Douglas Adams crossed with Monty Python style sequences of explanation (the angels dancing on the head of a pin is one of my absolute favourite moments in all of season 1). I presume that God's narration in S1 was to ensure the books more abstract explanations got faithfully adapted, but I wish Neil could have at least tried to recreate that for S2.

Finally, the AziraCrow romance was almost exactly what I hoped for. All the way through the season they built on it and built on it, whilst also shedding light on the fundamental issues at their core. They are still so opposite even though they want nothing more than to be together. It's heartbreaking, it's shippy AF, its all romance tropes and fanservice sure - but I don't consider fanservice to be a dirty word. The kiss is heartbreaking. You can feel the desperation oozing off of Crowley in that moment. The heartbreaking cliffhanger is exactly what's needed at the end of act 2 of a 3 act structure. If we had been given the episodes week by week, i fully believe by week 6 we would have been more prepared for it, because after rewatching a few times now, its built in rather seemlessly imo. It was always gonna end that way.

When I consider everything, I can honestly say hand on heart that I preferred this season to the first. Though that's only because season 1 doesn't have enough AziraCrow in it and I'm ultimately here for them. This season was made for the AziraCrow fans, so it makes sense that I'd prefer it, whereas I suppose for book lovers and people who prefer the story of book 1 to the relationship between Az and Crow then yeah, for sure I can see why perhaps you wouldn't be too happy with this season. Perhaps Season 3 will be a better blend for all GO fans.

It was a joy. Fanservice? Yes. A bit like fanfiction? Also yes. Are either of these things bad? Not at all. It was extremely queer, fun, silly, romantic, and heartbreaking. The lack of overarching domineering plot was a good thing tbh. Some of my favourite shows focus more on character development than plot, look at WWDITS, which has never had a proper plot in a single episode of its 5 season run. Yet it is hugely successful and critically acclaimed. Half the time in Supernatural the plot was the absolute worst thing about it. You ignored the plot as much as possible and instead focused on the subtext because that's where all the fun was! So yeah, the lack of overarching plot doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I will leave it there. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, though I do wish that anyone who is particularly critical of GOS2 would please tag it as such, because now I've done my dive into the critique of it, I'd like to avoid and blacklist all such critique going forward. I want to remain in my little GOS2 happy bubble for a while longer - before I inevitably revert back into deep meta analysis of the much darker, and sometimes depressing story of The Sandman.

:)

[speremint]

I saw your art back in 2019 with GO, and just came back to it cause of S2, but didn’t know you made a Webtoon! I’m devoted to reading it now, and am sure it’ll be amazing. As is all your other works 👈 Though I must ask, if you’ve watched GOS2, what’s your opinion on it?

I do!! I was hired by WEBTOON while I was still in college and just worked on it for my senior project, actually (nothing like doing my job and getting paid while simultaneously getting an A)

I hope you enjoy it! BnR's got a good backlog at this point, so it's definitely a good time to hop in :D

As for GOS2.... I actually did a longer post about my thoughts on the season here!

But the TLDR is it was... alright. I think it and OFMDS2 had similar issues where it felt way too fan-servicey at certain points, and the story as a whole was less tight than their S1s. Which is very valid for GO since, yk, Neil Gaiman had been really steadfast about there only being one season initially, but OFMD made me scratch my head a lil

[cowboy-queer]

Okay I made a quick post about this but I wanted to elaborate on why I think GOS2 is more like Emma than Pride & Prejudice.

Firstly, Emma is all about matchmaking and social gossip, and how making making assumptions about other people’s feelings can be harmful, especially when one is meddling in the lives of others. Obviously Aziraphale fancies himself a matchmaker with Maggie and Nina. He does more interfering in their life than he should, and it could have very easily turned out bad for them.

Aziraphale and Crowley this season are much more like Emma and Knightley than Elizabeth and Darcy. After only one meeting, Liz hates Darcy, and Darcy loves Liz; their dynamic starts off with them on a different wavelength. Emma and Knightley are on the same level of status as well as already being friends when the book starts. Even if they have a difference of opinion, they view the other as someone they can speak with easily. Aziraphale and Crowley from the start fall into conversation easily. They’re instant friends and confidants.

The Woodhouses and Knightley are the wealthiest people in Hartfield, and while Knightley uses his status to keep to himself, Emma uses hers to influence those around her. Aziraphale, like Emma, has full confidence in his schemes and believes that he knows best. Also like Emma, he has to learn the hard way that his status doesn’t make him immune to doing the wrong thing and hurting others. There was a weird focus this season on just how wrong Aziraphale can be about things when he assumes his angelic status makes him better than humans and demons.

Knightley, on the other hand, doesn’t really have anywhere to grow. His only real struggle is with Emma, and what comes with confessing his feelings to her. Crowley’s difficulty in getting the words out during his confession reminded me of Knightley’s line “If I loved you less, I might be able to talk about it more.” The whole rest of the quote is honestly pretty applicable to their dynamic in season 2. That being said, Crowley doesn’t have much of his own arc this season. He spends it mostly angry at Gabriel (much like Knightley’s distrust of Frank Churchill) and pining over, bantering with, or admonishing Aziraphale. 

It’s kind of shitty that after everything they’d been through in the first season, Crowley seems to be fully realized while Aziraphale seems to still be fumbling with his allegiances and beliefs. He’s supposed to be just as human as Crowley. He should know better; he bit the apple, too. That’s not really relevant to it being like Emma, I’m just frustrated by the writing. I feel like this season focused more on Aziraphale than Crowley but in all the wrong ways.