#given that wwx is literally the same age as lwj

[mxtxfanatic]

So I just did some math, and y’all got me fucked up. I’ve seen so much handwringing in this fandom about the age disparity between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian’s body because “oh, lwj is soooooo much older than Mo Xuanyu, it ‘basically’ counts as a grooming that wwx was given such a young body and lwj is still attracted to him!”

It’s literally not true. Lan Wangji is around 33 at the start of the present-day plotline. Mo Xuanyu is 27. Y’all are so full of shit.

The math:

Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are around the same age, give or take some months. They are 15/16 at the start of the Cloud Recesses arc, the discussion conference in Qishan happens less than two years later (16), the Wen indoctrination camp happens definitively when they are 17 (madam yu says so) a year later, then the Sunshot Campaign takes place 2 weeks after that with Lotus Pier’s fall. The war lasts for around a year or two, but wwx mentions he is 20 during the Phoenix Mountain hunt. This means he’s still 20 when he breaks the Wen remnants out of the labor camps 2 months later, and they abscond to the Burial Mounds. For Burial Mounds arc timeline, you have to go by A-Yuan/Lan Sizhui’s. A-Yuan is a teething toddler between one and two (jc deduces) in the Burial Mounds. He’s 15 at the start of the story 13 years later. The Burial Mounds settlement, therefore, lasts about a year. By the time of the siege, wwx should be 21 (again, give or take a few months). Thirteen years later, lwj is 33/34.

Mo Xuanyu, on the other hand, is given a definite age start. He is 14 when he is taken by Jin Guangshan back to Koi Tower. This happens after the siege but  before Nie Mingjue dies (Jin Guangyao mentions this in the chapt. 79 flashback during his argument with Nie Mingjue about Xue Yang), and Nie Mingjue dies a year after the first siege takes place. This would mean that Mo Xuanyu is 14 when the siege happens and, 13 years later, he would be 27 when he sacrifices his body to summon Wei Wuxian.

Mo Xuanyu is not some barely-legal young adult at the start of the story, and the age difference, besides, would be 7 years at most. The fact that this is regular discourse is embarrassing.

[llycaons]

ep9: dafan wens my friends the dafan wens

imo this is def the weakest arc in the show. this episode was fun but whew, I think ep8 might have been my least favorite and we're still getting out of it

he asks this question way later in eps 20 and 43 or something and each time lwj is like 'we just gotta rush them' king of rigid problem-solving and only having one solution to any problem <3

threatening jc with lwj is kind of funny but on a rewatch it's like. ah

credit where it is due. jc almost expressed concern here for wwx

wwx defending lwj for zero reason and then turning and giving him such a sweet smile. bud you are so far gone <3

NOW IT'S DAYTIME?? not even dawn but BROAD daylight. mama mia

yeah, I feel like putting the zombied people in the cage would have been safer than putting the healthy ones in

IS HE. HMM

god this is so sad. look how miserable wq looks to see her popo like this

I don't like any of the surreal, drawn-out, misty sequences interspersed with fight scenes. I mean the waterborne abyss. I mean this forest fight. I mean a chunk of yi city. I mean the maze forest. I just hate the hazy atmosphere and there's usually no good character moments and there's a ton of worldbuilding magic that I can't follow very well and don't rly care for

this fight isn't bad tho! there's some fun banter and some cool angles, like the one above

ANOTHER ATTEMPT AT STRANGLING WWX. WHEN WILL HE CATCH A BREAK. this is the first of...four? jc, wrh, and jgy way later...let wwx breathe 2k23

also this is a VERY funny thing to worry about. lwj is very good at going Heady Empty (meditation) but wwx found it challenging due to having so many thoughts

I SEE BABY A-YUAN!!!!!!!!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!

as much as I complain about him as a character I was THRILLED to see this little guy. I LOVE baby a-yuan and I think he's just precious. his survival was one of the things I needed to be spoiled for in order to watch the show without significant distress

though given the timeline this can't be a-yuan...he'd be way too old by the time the post-sunshot timeline rolls around. that's at least two years later. so I guess this is his older sister who looks the same as him. god but that's a cute little actor. love him and his big chubby cheeks and his little fingers and his baby wig

GREAT choice for little wn and wq too. they look just like their adult versions. actually I think the casting for all the kids versions of the adult characters was perfect except for a-yuan doesn't look a great deal like lsz imo

HA. wrh may be power-hungry and getting more unhinged by the day with the magic of the yin iron but he's still a more savvy political actor than his stupid fucking son. 'of course wen qing is going to intervene if you mess with her family, you fuckhead' lmao

SUCH a pretty shot I love how saturated the colors are for their outfits and headpieces

literally such a fucking funny scene. well-dressed young nobles hunting in the woods for a chicken. and wwx being so clever and getting wq alone so he and lwj can question her in private. curious how quick he was to cut nhs and jc out. nhs isn't from either of their sects, but jc should theoretically be trustworthy. except! wwx doesn't trust him. hmmm. even this early, he and lwj act as a unit. lwj's entirely given up trying to go it alone and now they work together nearly seamlessly

literally seconds apart. I fucking give up. and I don't think it's the translations because this has been a consistent issue in all the versions I've watched. it's 10! wq and wn are clearly around the age of the others so it's not 20

remember that post that's like 'jc: lady wen may I rub thine shoulders? massage your feet? feed you grapes? vs. wwx and wq doing a six-step handshake and laughing together' that NAILED it. jc trying to be attentive and gentlemanly bc he views her as a Woman and he's trying to fulfill the role he understands to be expected of him, as a man, in society ( to Intervene and Protect). meanwhile wwx views her as an independent actor in this shitty situation they're in. dgmw wwx is also sexist but he treats women more like human people than jc does, esp wq. he also thinks out of the box and isn't afraid to challenge social norms, unlike jc who's guided by social expectations because his parents haven't given him strong positive role modeling and he doesn't have strong instincts on how to behave outside of what he's been taught by society in general

but like I said. still sexist. it's not like being a creative and original thinker can save him from Living In A Society

lwj is very polite to wq, as he appears to be to all women, but I don't think he'd get close with any women because he doesn't get close with anyone at all. also I don't think he meets many women so he doesn't have much interaction with them outside of professional and impersonal settings so they've been at an arm's length from him since he mama died

jc is consistently so unpleasant to wwx. like would it kill you to be supportive of your brother when he's trying to solve a mystery. for ONCE

I like this waiter <3

be nice to the waiter my GOD jc. chill out. he's just telling a story

ohhh cinematic parallels to post-sunshot hmm 👀

overall the yin iron plot is overly complex, kind of silly, and imo feels extraneous, and I can def tell why novel fans dislike it. but it did give the boys and girl some quality time together and an excuse for exposition/backstory development and really, that's all the purpose it needed to serve before its bigger role later. now if only jyl was on more of these trips :( I miss my girl. I love wq but jyl is probably my favorite female character

personal highlights

wwx's cute little smile directed at lwj for no other reason than that he likes him

wwx finding it hard to concentrate in the woods because he just has too many thoughts, which he interprets are being so so smart (and he IS I love you wei wuxian)

nhs and jc going chicken-hunting in the woods

BABY A-YUAN DEBUT!!!!!

[plan-d-to-i]

Plan do you think the JC before and during the cloud recesses era would make the same choices as the one when wwx returned after 16 years?

We see glimpses of his character before the war in the novel, about how he had tried to limit wwx and always berated him. We know about how he believed what his mother said because he found her the most relatable and the most similar to him. How he considered what she said facts and learned to see the world with her lens.

I sometimes related the outbreak of war as the end of their childhood innocence, of all of them. (ofc this is different for wwx, who unlike others has known the loss of protection at a tender age and knows what struggling everyday to survive really means.)

And as i remove the lens of childhood from JC, i can imagine him becoming the JC he becomes who does everything the canon JC does post war.

Also, JC's character had been stagnant during the 16 years and not embraced to grow up as time and life went on, preferring to hold on grudges and not acknowledging his debts and faults. He had become the second version of Madam Yu, something JFM always tried to avoid by guiding him in his childhood.

So, Plan, do you think the JC before and during the cloud recesses era would make the same choices as the one when wwx returned after 16 years?

I really forgot to mention this but in the assumption, the younger JC would know the facts of what happens in the future.

For example, he would know JYL sacrificed her life to save WWX.

What would his reaction be? Something is making me think it might be the same but mixed with disbelief at what will happen, but i really want to know from another person.

(I mentioned disbelief because before lotus pier was captured, before his golden core had been taken, JC had not really known the loss of something or someone. Something tells me that he will not believe this happens and would try to think he can stop it. Like doing something similar to running into a situation without thinking about it's consequences, because given how disbelieved and broken he was at a golden core's loss, he should've known it would happen when he knew he was handing himself to wzh. i don't think he really thought his golden core would be taken.) 2/2

[One quick note, the donghua decided to show Wen Zhuliu's core crushing power in the indoctrination camp so everyone would be aware of his ability. In the novel it's not shown. jc finds out about it after he is captured and he and WWX realize the literal meaning of "Core Melting Hand" vs just like a nifty figurative title like YZY's "The Violet Spider"... who doesn't actually turn into a purple arachnid...].

Anyway back to your story. I think if jc knew what would happen in the future he would either kill WWX or chase him away from YunmengJiang Clan. He would think if he did that he could prevent everything bc in his mind it's always all WWX's fault. Then jc could just die in the Xuanwu cave along w Jin Zixuan and almost every other disciple and sect heir. Let's say in my head canon of this scenario LWJ MIRACULOUSLY, gets away bc they Wens leave him for dead as they're retreating/running for their lives from the turtle that has chomped almost everyone. LWJ wakes up alone, still notices the leaves in the water and saves himself, bc there's no one else to save.

LP is destroyed anyway bc YZY still loses her shit when WLJ strolls in to set up the supervisory office and jc is still missing- let's say JFM is off trying to find jc instead of their swords this time and when he gets back his house is on fire...

As for WWX, he might have been passing the time as a rogue cultivator. He'd probably join the war after news of what happened at Cloud Recesses and LP spread. Let's say during the war LWJ and WWX grow closer and realize all that tension between them could be... something else. Maybe after the war he'd meet XXC like he dreamed of! LWJ is very happy for him although a pebble might suffer a little bit. I'm sorry anon, I'm not terribly good at what ifs haha. xx

[xiyao-feels]

Part Two: Claims about NMJ and NHS

Intro - Pt 1 - Pt 2 - Pt 3 - Pt 4

NMJ

1) NMJ wished to protect NHS from cultivating with the sabre as a youth.

I don't think he tells us this in quite so many words, but it seems implied by the flashback scenes: his giving NHS the paintbrush, the bit where he takes 修刀 and gives NHS 修心, and course him literally telling NHS that whatever NHS wishes to do, he'd support it.

As far as I can tell there's no evidence of this. Now, to be fair, we don't see them as children in MDZS, but there is not as far as I can tell any sign that NMJ has ever done anything but strongly desire that NHS work on the sabre. Indeed, even at Hejian during Sunshot, the reason he overhears MY and LXC's conversation is because he is bringing NHS' sabre to LXC so that NHS will not be able to escape practicing with it. He certainly does not renew any kind of commitment to allowing NHS to do what he wills before his death. In CQL, we see rather less, but as far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be anything that contradicts MDZS on this front.

2) In his heart, NMJ carried significant doubts about the righteousness of Nie cultivation practices, including both the sabre-curse-inducing sabre cultivation and the practice of balancing the sabre spirits via corpses in the wall

This is quite central to the movie. It's arguably implicit in his desire to protect NHS from cultivating with the sabre, but beyond that, he is clearly extremely uncomfortable at NHS' moral challenge of Nie practices and believes at least partially that NHS has a point; moreover, it's implicit in his confessions to NHS in the tomb:

The Nie family's ancestors created this family foundation with great hardships. Unexpectedly, it was cursed by the sword spirit. I practiced swordsmanship hard and thought I could find a way to solve it, but I just followed the same old disastrous road of the ancestors.

And of course, his moral arc in the movie is about embracing those doubts and rejecting Nie tradition.

There is as far as I can tell no evidence of this in MDZS or CQL; in fact we don't learn anything about the Nie burial traditions in scenes where NMJ is still alive, and he never shows any doubt about the wisdom of sabre cultivation.

3) NMJ used to be "intelligent and wise"; it's due to the effects of the sabre curse that he is "moody and brutal".

We're explicitly told this by NHS at around 32:50: "Da-ge, look at you now, you have changed. When you were young, you were always wise and intelligent. Ever since you practiced swordsmanship, you've become moody and brutal." It's also backed up by the childhood flashbacks. The sharp distinction between NMJ and sabre-curse-affected-NMJ, shown by the way sabre-curse-affected NMJ is visually marked out, also helps suggest this.

Now, in MDZS and CQL, this…is complicated. Again, in MDZS, we don't see him as a child—the earliest we see him is still well past the time he began practicing sabre cultivation. And in ch 26 NHS does indeed suggest that sabre cultivation causes increasing irritability; it certainly seems plausible, indeed almost necessary, that he had less of a temper before he started practicing, and for that matter we see his anger grow worse as time goes on.

Nevertheless, we never actually see any trace of a calm-tempered NMJ in the text. Even by the beginning of Sunshot, his reputation as an angry man is firmly established. Consider the Nie men's reaction to his anger at their shit-talking MY, in the cave:

The entire cave was in a muddle. Everyone knew ChiFeng-Zun’s personality—the more one tried to explain, the angrier he was. Seeing that they probably couldn’t escape punishment and would have to tell the truth, nobody dared to speak a word.

Even his friend LXC says to MY, “MingJue-xiong has quite a fiery personality. It must have been truly difficult for you to have earned his approval.”

And NHS, who very much loves his brother even as he is also to some extent frightened of him, is never shown pining for the halcyon days of yore. Narratively speaking, sabre-affected NMJ is the only NMJ we know. I think…this is something a Nie brothers spinoff could theoretically do something interesting with, but the way it's presented in their relationship is all wrong.

In CQL, the evidence is much the same or just not shown. NMJ generally seems less angry (though even so, we see him be angry at the Nie men for mocking MY (in subjective CQL-Empathy, but still), at WWX for saying maybe let's not kill XY immediately, at JGY for having killed the Nie cultivators, etc.), and if anything his relationship with NHS seems better than it is in the novel, although this too is well after he's begun to practice sabre cultivation.

4) NMJ respects NHS' interests

When picking NHS to lead the other team in the tombs, NMJ tells us that NHS knows most about astronomy in the Nie, and NMJ clearly considers this valuable.

If NHS did actually have significant knowledge of cultivation, NMJ would probably respect that. However, this is what NMJ has to say about the interests NHS canonically has (ch 49):

Nie HuaiSang was absolutely delighted. He greeted Jin GuangYao again and again as he grabbed the fans in haste. Seeing how his younger brother reacted, Nie MingJue was so outraged that he almost found it amusing. He turned to Jin GuangYao, “Don’t send him those useless things!”

In a hurry, Nie HuaiSang dropped a few fans on the ground. Jin GuangYao picked them up for him and put them into his arms, “HuaiSang’s hobbies are quite elegant. He’s dedicated to art and calligraphy, and has no propensity for mischief. How can you say that they’re useless?”

Nie HuaiSang nodded as fast as he could, “Yes, Brother is right!”

Nie MingJue, “But sect leaders have no need for such things.”

In CQL, I believe we just don't see enough to say, although given that again, NHS' isn't actually studying cultivation, it seems likely NMJ' attitudes are much the same.

NHS

1) NHS is profoundly morally motivated

NHS is immediately and hugely upset with the practice of using corpses in the walls, explicitly on moral grounds, even though it was the practice of their ancestors, and even once he finds out that they're not (usually) Nie men, but evildoers.

Having been told by NZH that the blades need the corpses to suppress their aggressiveness: "But isn't that just sacrificing people?" "Zonghui, the Nie family have always been righteous. If we give sacrifice to it with life, we will become evil."

And then, to NMJ: "Wait. Let me ask you. Why is here called the Sword Sacrifice Hall? What is to balance sword spirit? I didn't understand before coming what exactly Sword Sacrifice Hall represents. I know it now. This is not balance but sacrificing flesh and blood!"

NZH: Second Young Master, you misunderstood it. Those corpses belong to evil men. The Nie family's ancestors had uses their bodies to balance the sword spirit. We also follow the ancestral instructions."

NHS: (to NZH) Evil men? (to NMJ) Aren't they human beings? Are you qualified for deciding their fate?

NMJ: The sword spirit is extremely dangerous. Generations of the Nie family all balanced the spirit in this way.

NHS: Even if they were wrong, you also follow their way?

In MDZS…I went over the chapters where he shows up, and I'm not actually sure we ever see him express a moral sentiment? I could be missing something, but it doesn't seem to be any kind of fundamental part of his character.

This is his reaction to WWX's first suggestion of demonic cultivation, when they're studying at CR (ch 14):

After thinking for a few moments, an expression of envy and yearning appeared on Nie HuaiSang’s face, “To be honest, Wei-xiong’s words were quite interesting. Spiritual energy can only be obtained through cultivation and taking great pains to form a golden core. It would take I-don’t-know-how-many years to do, especially for someone like me, whose talent seems as if it was gnawed by a dog when I was in my mother’s womb. But, resentful energy are from the fierce ghosts. If they can easily be taken and used, it would be beyond wonderful.”

And—granted this is several years down the line and NHS is keeping up his cover, but when NHS is explaining the sabre tomb to LWJ and WWX in chapter 26, he doesn't seem to have any problem with the practice. In fact, he tells us that he participated in choosing corpses for NMJ's sabre:

Nie HuaiSang was already shocked speechless. Wei WuXian inquired, “Who chooses the corpses that the Nie Sect uses for the Saber Hall?”

Nie HuaiSang replied with a glazed expression, “Usually, the past sect leaders chose and stored them when they were still alive. My brother passed away at an earlier age. He didn’t have enough, so I also helped him choose some… I kept whichever corpses that were complete with all limbs. I don’t know about anything other than this…”

In CQL...mmm. I rewatched all the pre-Sunshot scenes with him in it, and I do think he comes across as, at least, less amoral. We don't have the gee wouldn't demonic cultivation be nice scene, and you could definitely interpret him as being worried about the granny at Dafan, or even the temporary-puppets; he says you have to admire Songxiao's integrity and elegance as they depart; and while we don't see him be part of the initial 'maybe we shouldn't just immediately execute XY squad,' he does go da-ge after NMJ seems irritated at WWX, and after NMJ throws MY out he goes in and is like but why!!!! That said, in both cases where he challenges (and I use the term rather loosely for the da-ge after NMJ is irritated with WWX), he immediately backs down faced with NMJ's opposition. I really don't see any sign of the character who is so morally motivated and so sure of his own correctness he challenges NMJ, /in front of all their men/, and keeps up the challenge despite NMJ's consistent opposition.

2) NHS isn't really interested in JGY's gifts

At no point is he shown delighting over or interested in anything JGY gave him (except of course the flute for treating his brother), and in fact when JGY says that after the journey he will give him gifts he replies "San-ge, I am not afraid of difficult journeys. I'm not craving for toys either." On the contrary, gifts are associated with /NMJ/, who gave him a paintbrush as a child.

In MDZS, we see him explicitly delighted in and interested by JGY's gifts. In ch 49, we see him going over a dozen gold-lined fans, which turn out to be gifts from JGY; when JGY mentions he's going to play a song for NMJ, he expresses interest and mentions "the limited edition" JGY gave him "last time," and then when NMJ shouts at him to go to his room he runs instead "to the living room for the presents that Jin GuangYao had brought him;" when JGY shows up at Qinghe after the stairs incident, NHS "beamed as he got ready to go to Jin GuangYao and see what presents he brought this time." Considering how little time they have together on the page, the gifts show up a great deal.

In CQL, we mostly don't see a lot of NHS and JGY's interactions after JGY's legitimation but before NMJ's death, so it's impossible to directly say. However, he is at least shown to delight in and greatly value beautiful things (see at least the fan flashback in ep 35).

3) NHS is motivated by a desire for his brother's respect and the respect of their men.

This is the argument JGY uses which finally settles NHS on going along on the journey, around 14:30: "Both of you are pillars of the Nie family. You should work together. You can also prove yourself." See also his pleasure with himself at solving the puzzle quickly in the tombs; it's not a purely self-satisfied pleasure, but rather, "It seems I'm not useless" (27:35ish). When NZH replies, "Second Young Master, you are definitely not useless. It's just because everyone has their own will," NHS gives a firm little nod. NMJ's respect for NHS' skills and interests is also made central to their relationship.

In MDZS, NHS really doesn't seem to be motivated by people respecting him. Consider, again, what he says about WWX's idea of demonic cultivation (ch 14):

After thinking for a few moments, an expression of envy and yearning appeared on Nie HuaiSang’s face, “To be honest, Wei-xiong’s words were quite interesting. Spiritual energy can only be obtained through cultivation and taking great pains to form a golden core. It would take I-don’t-know-how-many years to do, especially for someone like me, whose talent seems as if it was gnawed by a dog when I was in my mother’s womb. But, resentful energy are from the fierce ghosts. If they can easily be taken and used, it would be beyond wonderful.”

A golden core was a core formed by cultivators after they had cultivated to a certain point. It can store and control spiritual energy. After the core was formed, the cultivator’s level of cultivation would increase at a rapid speed, and become better and better. Else, they would only be a low-end cultivator. If disciple from a prominent clan forms the core at a later age, it would be a disgrace to tell other people of it, yet Nie HuaiSang didn’t feel ashamed at all. Wei WuXian also laughed, “I know, right? No harm comes from using it.”

Even during Sunshot, he's slacking off, using the excuse of having forgotten his sabre. (ch 48)

And then in ch. 49, after NMJ burns his things:

Nie HuaiSang roared at Nie MingJue, “Saber, saber, saber! Who the fuck wants to practice the damn thing?! So what if I want to be a good-for-nothing?! Whoever that wants to can be the sect leader! I can’t learn it means I can’t learn it and I don’t like it means I don’t like it! What’s the use of forcing me?!”

I'm not necessarily saying he wouldn't enjoy it if NMJ respected him, and certainly it seems a fair read that he would like it if NMJ yelled at him less. But by and large, he just doesn't show any objection to being thought of as useless, even before his Headshaker cover—and there's a reason that cover worked, after all.

In CQL...well, again, he doesn't really show any sign of objecting to being thought useless, as far as I can tell.

4) NHS knows about the sabre curse

JGY explicitly says so at about 13:05: "You know his sickness. He didn't do it on purpose." Moreover, if NHS didn't know, the offer of flute-playing wouldn't really make sense.

In MDZS, NMJ explicitly hasn't told NHS at least as of JGY's visit after the stairs, and there's no indication he told him between then and when he qi-deviated. Indeed, it's JGY who thinks NHS should be told, while NMJ rejects this (ch 50):

Jin GuangYao, “Brother, these days you’ve been stricter and stricter towards HuaiSang. Is it the saber spirit…?”

After a pause, he continued, “Does HuaiSang still not know about the saber spirit?”

Nie MingJue, “Why would I tell him so soon?”

In CQL, we're not told either way; this being the case I tend towards defaulting to MDZS unless I have a specific reason to think otherwise.

5) NHS, though bad at fighting, is skilled in cultivation theory

Again, JGY says so, at around 13:19: "You are good at Daoist magic" (and NHS seems to accept it). Moreover this is continually backed up by the film, with NHS making good use of it in the tomb, and then of course in the last scene having put together the true effect of the corrupted passage.

There is no indication of this in MDZS. He's interested in art and beautiful things, but he struggles with the Lan lectures. When JGY defends NHS' interests, he mentions art and calligraphy, and says his hobbies are elegant; he makes no mention of any kind of cultivation theory. As WWX himself notes, thinking back (ch 21):

In the past, Wei WuXian and Nie HuaiSang studied together, so there were a few things he could comment about this person. Nie HuaiSang wasn’t an unkind person. It wasn’t that he was not clever, but that his heart was set somewhere else and used his smarts on other areas, such as painting on fans, searching for birds, skipping classes, and catching fish. Because his talent in terms of cultivation really was poor, he formed his core around eight or nine years later than the other disciples of the same generation as him. When he lived, Nie MingJue was often exasperated by the fact that his brother didn’t meet his expectations, so he disciplined him strictly. Despite this, he still didn’t improve much.

I'm not saying he couldn't have developed in this direction after NMJ's death, but there doesn't seem to be any indication he was skilled in that way beforehand. Again, there's a reason his cover as "totally useless person" works as a cover.

In CQL, again, we don't really see any evidence of his skill with cultivation. NHS is shown flipping through his book for the answer to the executioner question LQR asks WWX; he doesn't show any evidence of significant cultivation knowledge on the road trip section (although he is shown to have a good memory for things he's actually interested in, and you could argue he has good instincts!); his wish at the lantern festival is that he passes his studies at the Lan. I just don't see it.

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[gingersnapwolves]

Oh something I can't get over I'm terms of timeline is the fact that of this generation, nie mingjue is the oldest, then lan xichen, the Jiang YANLI, then jin zixuan, THEN meng yao, then y'know lwj-wwx-jwy/nhs/wn (with wq somewhere around the jyl-jzx-my ages).

Just the fact that my is young enough to be part of the younger brother band but has to sit at the older sibling table. And jzx who is the older sibling ends up lumped with the younger ones... based on.. maturity??? There's at least 1 year between them given that they are born on the same day, but I would even hazard 2 years, as jgs would have had to have leapt from his wife's bed to meng shi's which is somewhat unlikely due to the meng family originating near yungmeng not lanling 😐

And my is at least one year older than lwj which would make jzx 2-3 older than wwx and jwy!! Which would make him 3-4 years younger than jyl! And we really don't come across age differences in mainstream media where the woman is older than the man -even by a year! 😆 omg. Sorry for the rant!!

I’m pretty sure Meng Yao and Jin Zixuan are supposed to be exactly one year apart. That actually does make sense to me because JGS was absolutely  having sex with prostitutes the whole time he was married. There’s really no reason he wouldn’t have been doing it three months after his first son was born. (If anything it’s probably more likely because his wife probably wasn’t super interested at that point.) Plus I assume he travels a lot, thus him fucking around at a brothel in Yunmeng.

It’s also not odd to me that Meng Yao is considered ‘older’, maturity wise. Someone I saw once was talking about how it’s like a group of high school friends but they’re pretty much all from well-off families and have allowances and do whatever, and this one other kid whose family is poor so he’s had an after school job and has contributed to the family finances since he was twelve. Meng Yao literally lives in a whole different world from the others so it makes sense that he would think of himself (and be thought of) a responsible adult while kids his age or even a year or two older would still be thought of as kids.

That being said, where is the idea that Meng Yao is one year older than LWJ from? I always assumed that LWJ/WWX/JC are all roughly the same age as Jin Zixuan - mainly because they’re all attending the lectures at the same time. He definitely did read to me as several years younger than Jiang Yanli (although the fact that she’s older than him was a little odd to me). Meng Yao definitely reads as older than Nie Huaisang (who is supposedly around the same age as WWX/LWJ/JC) but that could just be because of his position in the sect, not his actual age. So I’ve worked off the concept that Meng Yao is probably roughly a year younger than the main trio.

[crossdressingdeath]

(1/3) It always amuses me how stans try to justify JC actions by his abusive upbringing while there were 3 children in that family and both others turned very kind and/or very moral and not at all like JC (and frankly, he didn't even have the hardest position in the dysfunctional dynamic). Or LXC and LWJ whose upbringing was even more screwed up with a LQ who was certainly playing favorites and wanting perfection, and yet this never draw a wedge between them or created any jealousy.

(2/3)LXC loves for LWJ to excel! Same with "but JC had it so hard rebuilding Lotus Pier, WWX was goofing off with the Wens"...JC was paying people to do that for him, yes, while WWX was trying to start from scratch a settlement over a mountain of corpses with a bunch of weak or old people and not to die of hunger comes winter. While separated from all his friends and hated as a monster by the cultivation world. "But JC was so lonely during the 13/16y, so that justifies him lashing out" And WWX

(3/3) was dead, killed by his brother and thinking that there was not a person left on his side in the end, and yet, that didn't make him act like a dick? Or athg else really, because everything that JC went through in the past, WWX did also, but in a worse way because he lost his parents young, lived in the streets, didn't have JC societal privilege or money and has to harness an unstable necromancy practice on top of that. And yet no one uses it as arguments to explain his actions, only for JC 

Honestly? While none of the Jiang kids were in a good position, out of the three of them... JC did have it the easiest. It was still awful for him, don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting his childhood didn’t suck, but given it was made very clear to JYL that her only purpose was to be married off to JZX so her mother could tie her bloodline to her best friend’s and WWX was treated like a servant at best... Yeah. If I had to pick, I’d choose having a distant father and dealing with a mother who’s constantly emotionally abusive over having a distant father and dealing with a mother who’s constantly emotionally abusive and being treated like a bargaining chip/treated like a servant and/or bastard and being whipped for actions that would get the rest of the clan a lecture at worst. Again, I’m not saying JC didn’t have it bad, but his siblings having it worse is... interesting, given neither of them decided to be dicks to Literally Everyone over it.

I do have to say, even though this is about JC, there’s nothing suggesting LQR was playing favourites with LXC and LWJ. He was strict, yes, probably stricter than he should’ve been, and LXC probably did get more one-on-one interaction with him, but given LXC was going to be sect leader/became sect leader at a young age that makes sense. This is not super important to the point of this post, but I do find it odd how often people make LQR out to be this horrible person who’s always awful to his nephews because he’s Strict when we... don’t actually know anything about how he raised them. I don’t like him all that much, and he probably didn’t do a fantastic job of raising them, but the man did try, and he clearly wants his nephews to be safe and happy (even though he has inaccurate views of what that entails...), and given how the parents/parental figures of the cast generally act he deserves some credit for that. Also the Twin Jades ended up considerably better-adjusted than most of their age group, which... isn’t saying much all things considered but it does say something. If nothing else neither of them seem to feel actively unsafe around him, so he’s definitely not the worst parental figure in this novel.

...I had a surprising number of thoughts on LQR there. Whoops, sorry about the tangent. Maybe I’ll make a post about him at some point. Anyway, yeah, LXC and LWJ clearly adore each other! LXC would be delighted if LWJ surpassed him at something! Same with Nie bros; they argue a lot, but there’s no denying that they love each other. That’s what insults and threats out of love look like; NMJ threatens NHS all the time, but NHS clearly isn’t all that bothered by it until JGY starts fucking with NMJ’s mind and the threats become more serious, which really isn’t NMJ’s fault. It’s because in the other sibling relationships both parties are invested in staying close. They love each other and want to be close for the rest of their lives! Meanwhile JC is obsessed with WWX outperforming him at Literally Everything, and WWX genuinely believes that JC is allowed to treat him the way he does and it’s fine and healthy.

And yeah, JC wasn’t exactly rebuilding Lotus Pier all by his lonesome with his own two hands. In fact, going by what we see all the rebuilding was done well before WWX left! And I don’t doubt for a second that WWX was involved in that process; I have very mixed feelings about the scene in CQL where he blows off his duties to go and get drunk, because on the one hand it does do a good job of showing just how bad his mental state is getting (and how JC refuses to acknowledge it despite WWX obviously being Not Okay), but on the other hand... I just can’t see WWX not throwing himself into helping JC with everything he’s got even while his mental state is coming crashing down around him. I mean, this is the guy who created an incredibly powerful weapon that even he couldn’t fully control, not knowing what using it would do to him, to help his brother win a war. I’m pretty much certain that WWX ran himself into the ground helping JC rebuild and run the sect... then when he found himself in charge of a small group of desperate people, scrambling to keep them fed and clothed and healthy, JC just abandoned him to deal with it on his own.

And the whole “Oh, but JC was so lonely, don’t you feel bad for him?” shtick. I hate it so much. If he didn’t want to be lonely, he should’ve considered that before alienating everyone in his age group and leading an army to murder his brother, the only person left who was willing to put up with him! It’s... really hard to feel bad for someone who’s brought most of their suffering on themselves through a series of generally shitty and frequently downright cruel actions with easily foreseeable consequences. If he got sick of being alone, he should’ve apologized to his peers for being a dick to... literally all of them and tried to make amends and strike up some sort of relationship. Or, if that didn’t work, go out! Meet new people! Try not to be as awful to them! Also, he’s a sect leader. If he couldn’t even maintain a positive relationship with other sect leaders, people who, let me remind you, he has to work with on a regular basis and several of whom are actually nice and friendly people, that is on him. If you are awful to people you will end up alone. And then JC decided to respond to learning that the people he was a dick to every time he saw them (and, in LWJ and NHS’s cases, caused the death of someone they cared about) wanted nothing to do with him... by whining about how lonely he was as if that wasn’t largely his fault. Like, he lost his family and that’s awful, but he could have had friends to help him through his grief, and it’s his own damn fault that he doesn’t.

WWX’s life was miserable. He had plenty of friends, yeah, but he spent years on the streets after his parents died brutal deaths; was raised in a family where he was treated like a servant and a scapegoat; lost everything in an event he was blamed for despite having nothing to do with the attack; had to sacrifice his incredibly powerful golden core (thereby losing his primary means of defending himself while on the run and drastically shortening his lifespan) to keep his brother from letting himself die; was thrown into a corpse pit for three months where he had to create an entirely new and experimental (and as such incredibly dangerous) form of cultivation and probably resort to cannibalism just to survive; had to fight a war almost immediately after escaping; spent a... good portion of time (not sure how long exactly because the MDZS timeline is more a suggestion than an actual coherent timeline) being treated alternately as a tame pet or a rabid animal and having to pretend everything was just fine while everyone tried to either control him or remove him and his brother very obviously got increasingly resentful of his skill and power; had to abandon his home, his family, and everything he had left of his old life to save a bunch of innocent people while everyone, including his brother, acted like he’d gone mad for not wanting to let them die horribly; had to go back to the corpse pit he spent three months in because it was the only place where they might be safe; accidentally killed his brother-in-law due to losing control after being ambushed on the way to a celebration for his nephew that he was invited to by people he trusted, almost certainly making him wonder on at least some level if that was why he was invited; lost two members of his new family who he clearly loved because of said accidental murdering; learned their deaths were for nothing and, when he retaliated against the planned attack that shouldn’t have happened because that’s what WQ and WN gave their lives to prevent, saw his beloved sister die to save him; and, after all that, lost the rest of his new family to a siege on a civilian population led by his brother. And after all that, his response was... to destroy the incredibly dangerous weapon he’d made because he didn’t trust the sects to not destroy each other and themselves with it and kill himself rather than risk losing control again and hurting anyone else. In the novel too; I don’t doubt for a second that WWX planned on dying in that siege, even if he didn’t expect destroying the seal to do it.

Take a look at that paragraph. All those things that happened to WWX. And in the end, he was kind. He was so, so kind, and remains kind even after thirteen years of being dead. He would have been well within his rights to go all “Then let me be evil” on the sects, but every time he attacked them they struck first, and most of the serious damage he did happened as a direct result of losing control of his experimental and mostly unknown new cultivation, which is a real risk even with spiritual cultivation; NMJ probably would have happily killed everyone in Qinghe if the qi deviation hadn’t gotten to him first, given how easy it was for him to attack even his beloved little brother. Everything bad that happened to JC is on that list, pretty much. Everything that JC suffered WWX did too, with some variations in the details (and of course dead versus alone for the same period of time). JC had the advantage of a sect at his back and a high rank by virtue of his birth, while WWX’s position was entirely reliant on JFM and, later, JC. And yet some people insist that WWX’s trauma doesn’t excuse his actions but JC’s somehow does. Now, some people argue it’s different because WWX was a mass murderer. Yeah, well, JC’s a fucking serial killer, and he doesn’t have the excuse of losing control due to using resentful energy to cultivate and being attacked by everyone he’d ever known and trusted.

...I’ve kind of lost track of where I’m going with this. Short version: I very strongly disagree with anyone who insists WWX’s trauma doesn’t excuse his actions while bending over backwards to argue that JC’s trauma excuses his.

[theyilinglaozus]

Oh god I had completely pushed away the fact that JGY married his sister and killed his son, which is atrocious. I do understand that the upbringing and trauma he realized pushed him into that direction but still, as you said, he went a bit too far there. Now that you say it, I also wonder what JZX would have been like as a sect leader. I agree that he would probably have been a great one, we see his mediating abilities in the Qiongqi Path scene between WWX and Jin Zixun, he ALMOST managed it -✨

And don't we all not know how to deal with a crush in our teenage years? I mean I don't know if it's because of my age or my awkwardness or a healthy combination of both, but I literally. Cannot deal with crushes. Just like LWJ. Although I wouldn't pretend to hate my crush, haha. But yeah, LWJ and JZX aren't very different in that matter, if LWJ weren't a Lan and hadn't grown up with thousands of rules and the pressure to not show emotion, he might have acted just like JZX -✨

WWX going full Baoshan Sanren is a concept I've never thought about, but it is incredibly interesting! Though I wonder if it would have worked out, because I'm sure the other sects wouldn't really appreciate even more demonic cultivators, haha. But we'll never know if it would have worked, unfortunately. But question time! What do you speculate would have happened to WWX and the Wens if WN hadn't killed JZX? Do you think it would've ended happily or would there have been an unforeseeable twist?✨

Yeah, Jin Guangyao just straight up murdering his own son is ... 😬 Not that there wasn’t a lot he didn’t do beforehand that wasn’t terrible, but there’s no coming back from killing his own child. 

That’s the heartbreaking thing isn’t it? Jin Zixuan was already showing examples of being a great sect leader, mediating what to do and what he did to try and get Wei Wuxian to meet his nephew, likely knowing it would also be an opportunity to try and begin a method of fixing things and figuring out the truth of why Wei Wuxian was protecting the Wens ... ugh. They were so close to possibly heading on a different path before all the murder happened 😢

Oh my god, tell me about it! There are so many things about Lan Wangji that I find relatable, but the way he deals with crushes? Too real! 😆 Wangji, stop calling me out for doing the whole ‘I will care about this person privately and without ever dealing with these feelings I have for them’ tactic, it’s just how we do! And that’s really interesting what you say about how, if he wasn’t born in Gusu Lan he might have dealt with his emotions the same was as Jin Zixuan (or, not deal with them still I guess). I can really see that! Now I’m just imaging that scene where Zixuan stands awkwardly for a while in front of Wei Wuxian and Jiang Yanli before running away, but with Lan Wangji 😂 The poor boys, we love you really! 💖

I’m gunna pop the rest of this reply under a cut, because I (once again!) seem to have a lot of thoughts about the questions you asked, and I reckon my response will get long!

See, I think if Wei Wuxian - for whatever reason - did just end up becoming the Yiling Patriarch and following Baoshan Sanren to some degree, it would have been a lot of ‘this is what people think he’s doing vs. this is what he’s actually doing’. I think there would be the fear of him creating more demonic cultivators (especially since more demonic cultivators do pop up anyway, since we know in the novel Jiang Cheng goes after them and, well. Xue Yang is right there. Actively admiring Wei Wuxian to some extent and wanting his help to bring Xiao Xingchen back) but I don’t actually think Wei Wuxian would teach demonic cultivation. He only learns it himself out of necessity and survival, and I dunno, I sort of feel it’s something he’d not necessarily want to put upon others if they had other options available to them. I can see him teaching disciples about talismans and archery, how to cultivate and help a golden core begin to grow. Plus there’s Wen Ning and Wen Qing, who I like to imagine would also maybe pass on some of their own skills - healing and medicine for Wen Qing and perhaps fighting methods from Wen Ning. 

I also kind of feel it’s something Wei Wuxian wouldn’t actively set out to do, but that younger disciples would come to him wanting to learn from him anyway. Especially Wen Yuan, who we know adores Wei Wuxian 😍 I once saw an idea that maybe disciples of Wei Wuxian are really rare and tend to hide because of the stigma of their sect and what the cultivation world thinks of them, but they often wear a red ribbon in their hair as a little nod to him which is adorable. I love that sort of thing. 

Had the Wens’ lived and Jin Zixuan didn’t die ... oof. I am loving this question because it is such a good one! 

I honestly don’t know if things would have ended happily. I’d like to imagine they would, but I also feel that something else would have likely happened. It just feels like such a big point in the story that carries so much importance along with it that somehow, tragedy still would have struck (that or I’m just being extra with my love for tragedy and angst once more) 😛

I ... actually think that Wei Wuxian still would have ended up dying, and the reason for that is a mix of both his loss of golden core and how his health was being affected at the time of protecting the Wens anyway. The story makes it very clear to us that his demonic cultivation is pulling a lot on his physical and mental health, and that Wei Wuxian is likely becoming thin and malnourished from lack of eating properly due to food shortages. He’s already got a history of starvation from his days on the streets which is not good, and given what he’s gone through in a short span via loss of golden core, being thrown into the burial mounds and left to die, having to feed on the dead to survive, taking up an unnatural cultivation practice in order to survive and then coming back and having to eventually face the burial mounds again but this time in an aim to create a new home for those that have no other place in the world? There’s a lot of strain being put upon his body in a small amount of time, not to mention a lack of really understanding the new limitations to his body. 

The story makes it very clear that golden core transfusion has not been done before for good reasons, and although Wen Qing is a good doctor and likely one of the best of her time ... she doesn’t even really understand what comes next for him. I imagine she’d be watching him to make sure he was alright, but given the stress of what was going on and Wei Wuxian’s own flaw in not telling anyone the truth of anything about how he’s feeling or what he’s been through, she’d be struggling with a thing that has no guideline to follow. And because Wei Wuxian is keeping this important piece of information close to his own heart and would likely take the truth to the grave so as not to hurt his brother, it’s not like he feels he can go to his siblings or Lan Wangji and say ‘hey, so my golden core has gone and my bodies kind of been put through the ringer since then, I don’t really know if I’m healthy or very much need some help?’ 

I guess my happy, dream scenario is ‘Wei Wuxian stays with the Wen’s, teaches some baby cultivators and over the years builds secret relations with the Jiang sect, Nie Huaisang, Jin Zixuan, potentially Lan Wangji and Lan Xichen to some degree’. Maybe when the truth comes out or is learnt the relations become more overt, until eventually his own tiny sect becomes a little more welcome in the cultivation world - likely after learning he’s still more of an asset to them than any real threat.

But my more realistic, angsty scenario is ‘Wei Wuxian dies from a multitude of complications - mainly golden core loss and his cultivation practices but also lack of looking after his own health, the world is still led to believe lies and stories are spun that he died from his use of demonic cultivation, making him a warning tale for others’. 

What about you, CC? Do you have any scenarios or ideas of what could have happened if things had gone differently at Qiongqi Path?

[xianmudelaozu]

*; OOC » SO I was rewatching the animation with my best friend while staying at her place bc my electricity was down and because I hate leaving things unfinished and also bc I was maybe trying to refresh my memory a bit for oc development reasons I continued watching where we left off.......

AND I COULDNT HELP BUT PULL OUT MY CALCULATOR AGAIN! Join me on Age/Timeline calculator road! (or skip to the bottom to read what I have come up with)

So, referencing this post of mine, we are safe to assume “it’s Year 25 when the Yiling Patriarch died. He’s been dead for 13 years which makes it the Year 38.” Easy as that. Basic Math, am I right? Cool, moving on.

Now, what I know is, that JC and WWX were about 15 when studying at Gusu, right? The study was supposed to last a year (it did for JC, but WWX got kicked out) which means JC was 16 when he returned from Gusu. At a certain flashback we hear Madam Yu’s voice claiming the boys are 16 and 17, and knowing WWX is older, it’s safe to assume it was after JC returned to Lotus Pier from Gusu. 

Then, the Archery contest, thing... stuff you know Discussion Conference happened shortly after, followed by Wen Chao feeling humiliated and the Wen Clan destroying several clans, including the burning of Gusu’s Cloud Recess and the uhm.... recruitment of the other Clan’s students and them having to turn in their swords yadda yadda.

It is save to assume there wasn’t too much time in between those happening, let it be a month maybe, but JC and WW were still 16/17 respectively. So, they get pushed around by Wen Chao, find the turtle, rest 3 days, kill the turtle, recover 7 days (?) all in the same year. We also know WWX was younger than 20 as commented by JC that he killed such a wild beast before reaching adulthood (Age 20)

Madam Yu and JFM get into a fight. JFM leaves assumed for several days, (since Yanli is there when WWX wakes up but is stated to ‘have left 2 days ago’ the night the Wen’s attack). Lotus Pier fell in a single night, meaning that was a quick defeat.

It takes Lan Xichen several months (as stated by his uncle at his return to Gusu) to gather the clans for their cause.  I guess it’s save to assume (since MXTX is like fuck timelines) That there possibly is a span of two or three months between attack on Gusu and the attack on Lotus Pier given the above statement.

WWX and JC wander for a few days before returning to Lotus Pier, where they stay for 5 days until Wen Chao’s returns. It is not stated how long it takes them to get to Baoshan Sanren’s mountain, but I’m assuming a few weeks. It is then that WWX gets attacked and thrown into the Burial Mounds.

I say, this might have all spiraled down in the span of a year, give or take a few months.

Fast forward to Sunshot Campaign starts. It is said their first attempt to take the Nightless City was unsuccessful which is why they split up and started smaller territorial battles. Now, War aint done in just a few weeks, so I guess it took a while. H O W E V E R, when Wen Chao attacks Chongyang he taunts JC and LWJ by saying he threw WWX into Burial Mounds a few days ago, so maybe it’s only been a week or two since the Sunshot Campaign started. Or Wen Chao is just a prick yknow. 

EDIT 1: I forgot, the Sunshot Campaign is said to have been taken 10 days, or rather that the Clans fought the Wen for 10 days in total, so I guess that fixes that. If we say Wen Chao threw WWX into the mountain “a few days ago”, however long that was, WWX joined somewhere in the middle of those 10 days.

EDIT 2: Season 2 literally starts with the Nightless City being stormed in Year 23 and it is said to have lasted several weeks and ends with the Fall of Wen Rouhan.

WWX joining JC back when returning to Lotus Pier. The animation flashes ‘back’ to current times after his awakening titled “16 years later” --- he died 13 years ago. So he’s been acting as the Yiling Patriarch for 3 years before he died. that is safe to assume. Also fits with Sizhui being 3 years old when he was found by LWJ after WWX died.

What else we know is that Jing Ling is 15 (edit: at the end of the story! in the beginning he’s 14, close to 15 I believe) and Sizhui is 16. which means there is a roughly 2 year gap between the bloodbath of Nightless City and the Siege of Burial Mounts where WWX died in Year 25.

EDIT 3: It is questionable if the Sunshot Campaign really lasted about a year, but we have two different time stamps. One, with the Animation showing us Wei Wuxian being thrown into Burial Mounds and rejoining JC and JYL in Lotus Pier being 16 years before his resurrection, and another with S2 opening saying The Nightless City/Wen Rouhan fell in the year 23 in a battle that lasted several weeks. 

Then again, we are told the Clans fought the Wen for 10 days which is just confusing the fuck out of me not gonna lie. How I understand it, the 10 Days/Several weeks are probably referencing the same period of time and refer to ONLY the battle of the Nightless City where Wen Rouhan fell and not the whole Sunshot Campaign. That would definitely make more sense anyway. 

So we have Year 22 with the start and year 23 with the end of the Sunshot Campaign, leaving 2 more years until WWX’s death. We know the Lanling Jin Sect enslaved the remaining Wen in the same year. (S2, EP15 mentions those events to be 15 years ago. 38-15=23). Notable things WWX did in those two years are, resurrecting Wen Ning, taking in the remnants of the Wen, punching Jiang Cheng in the face leaving the Yungmeng Jiang Sect, awakening Wen Ning’s consciousness.

The Animation notes that “the issue” at Qiongqi Path took place “one year later”. Since Jin Ling was born in November and WWX was on his way to the one month birthday anniversary, I think it is just referring to “the next year” and not directly a year later, unless of course you take into consideration Jin Ling was still 14 at the beginning of the story (which I assumed was just bc he has a late birthday in November) but he might actually been born in Year 24! Tho the evidence suggests it is at the end of Year 24 (specifically December since JL was born in November and aged 1 month) that WWX and Wen Ning are on their way to the 1-Month-Banquet and WWX loses control and kills JZX..

Edit 4: It’s later referred to again that ‘the person [that cast the curse on JZX1] has reappeared after 14 years”, so it is save to say Jin Ling was born in November of Year 24 and his father died a month later in December. Since WWX died in the Year 25 it is safe to assume, with everything taking place at the end of Year 24, he died very early in the Year 25, most likely still in January. That is, however, like most of the rambling I put in here, purely speculation and assumptions. Tho I do believe it is closer to being accurate than my first half assed attempted at trying to figure out the timeline.

That concludes the timeline/years of Mo Dao Zu Shi so far as I can tell up to the beginning of the story!

Regarding the matter of Xue Yang and XXC, I have the following theorie which is mostly just speculation and assumptions! Feel free to hash it out more or get inspired by it if you will.

NHS mentions that about 11 years prior (of the current year) the trouble at the stone castles began, which was shortly after he was appointed sect leader because Nie Mingjue died. That leads to assume NMJ died in the year 26 or 27. 

Xue Yang was imprisoned after WWX died and NMJ was still alive, so around year 25-26 (if we assume WWX died very early in January year 25 as mentioned above). Xue Yang was released AFTER NMJ died, probably in the same year (26-27) and then went on to get his revenge on Baixue Temple before returning to Lanling Jin Sect. 

He helped JGY to plot JGS's death and once that succeeded, he was captured and abused before released/escaping prison. Then, XXC and AQing found him. If we assume, this all happened until Year 27. 

During Year 27, he probably recovered from his injuries. We do not know how many years Xue Yang stayed with XXC, but it was at least 2 because he mentioned going night hunting with XXC 'two years ago', but given the fact his injuries needed to heal for several months I personally think he spend a year recovering and then started night hunting with XXC and stayed for the aforementioned two years = a total of 3 years

That would make it Year 30 - 8 years prior to WWX's resurrection - when he is found out and fights XXC and collects his shattered soul, as well as killing A-Qing

SO the only year we are explicitly given is the Year 25 when the Yiling Patriarch died and Year 23 when the Sunshot Campaign ended/Wen Rouhan died. Going from there, this is all speculations of timelines/ages unless we know the year/gap we’re given

* the happenings concerning Xue Yang, Song Lan, Xiao Xingchen and A-Qing are PURELY speculation on my part!

YEAR 20 - JC and WWX study at Gusu 

(JC Age 15, WWX Age 16)

YEAR 21 - JC returns from his 1 year trip to Gusu 

(JC: 16/ WWX: 17)

LATE YEAR 21 - EARLY YEAR 22 - Archery Competition/Discussion Conference in the Nightless City. Destruction of Cloud Recess, abduction of the Students by the Wen, death of the turtle. 

(JC about 17, WWX 18)

(- 16 years) YEAR 22 - Start of the Sunshot Campaign. WWX becomes the Yiling Patriarch/Develops Demonic Cultivation 

(JC: 17, WWX: 18) // Sizhui is born (just for reference) My heart bleeds imagining JC was just sweet 17 hot damn

(-15 years) YEAR 23 - END of the Sunshot Campaign / Death of Wen Rouhan (confirmed in S2 EP1 of the Animation), Death of Wen Ning/Resurrection as the Ghost General (S2 EP5) | JYL & JZX get married

( -14 years) LATE YEAR 24 - Jin Ling is born in November, about a month later, JZX dies on Qingqi Path / Wen Qing & Wen Ning’s execution and Bloodbath of Nightless City / JYL dies.  

(JC: 18/19, WWX: 19/20) 

Beginning of YEAR 25 - Siege of the Burial Mounds - WWX dies 

(JC: 20, WWX: 21 (deceased) | Jin Ling: 1, Sizhui: 3)

YEAR 25-26 - Massacre of Yueyang Chang Sect / Imprisonment of Xue Yang one month later -  Nie Mingjue insulting Jin Guangyao

(Speculated Age for Xiao Xingchen 17-18, Song Lan: 17-18, Xue Yang: 15-16)

YEAR 26-27 - Trouble in Nie Sect Stone Castles / Speculated death of Nie Mingjue / Release of Xue Yang / Baixue Temple Masacre /  Assumed Death of Jin Guangshan / JGY abusing XY / XY escaping prison / XXC and A-Qing finding XY in the streets

(JC: 22, WWX: Deceased | Jin Ling: 3, Sizhui: 5)

(Speculated Age for Xiao Xingchen 18, Song Lan: 18, Xue Yang: 15-16)

YEAR 28 - Xue Yang and XXC start night hunting together

YEAR 30 - Song Lan confronts Xue Yang, dies / XXC confronts Xue Yang, dies / Xue Yang kills A-Qing / Xue Yang spends 8 years trying to piece XXC’s shattered soul back together

(Speculated Age for Xiao Xingchen 22/23, Song Lan: 22/23, Xue Yang: 20)

(+13 years) YEAR 38 - WWX gets resurrected 

(JC: 33 / WWX techincally 34 | JL: 14/15, LSZ: 16)

(Speculated Age for Xiao Xingchen 30/31, Song Lan: 30/31, Xue Yang: 28)

[sozotohakai]

meet the mun

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LAYER ONE: THE OUTSIDE - Name: Chris - Eye Color:  Brown - Hair Style/color: Varies, I tend to prefer mid-length hair, with layered cut style, and they’re naturally dark brown, I’ve dyed them with strands of copper or strands of auburn in the past, I’ve felt like letting them be just their natural colour but I’m pretty sure it’s possible I’ll dye them in one of those again in the future. - Height: 5′7 (170 cm) - Clothing style: Uh. That is a good question :’) Casual I guess, I love most jeans/tight pants that are either blue or black, I love my tops to be fitting though not too tight but I have various kind of tops I like (from tank top to short sleeved shirt to long sleeve ones), I do have a weakness for button up shirts though. Boots are also my faves kind of shoes. - Best physical feature: I guess, my overall figure?

LAYER TWO: THE INSIDE - Your fears: I think my overall, big fear is the fear of physical pain, but it’s translate most in fear of drowning, of sharp objects pointed at me or near me in someone else’s hand, fear of heights, and fear of stingy insects. I think I do have a phobia of wasps and bees and the likes though, like, I used to be deathly afraid of every insects, even butterfly. I’m still a bit uneasy when anything insects gets close to me, but I only really fear afraid when I know it can sting (or if I don’t know if they can, like if I’m surprised by buzzing but can’t see it, or if I don’t know the insects). I tolerate bees? By that I mean I just freeze and repeat like a mantra it’ll die if it strings it won’t easily sting you. But wasps? Nah man, I’ll hide behind anyone I know or I flee. If you ever see me make a sudden, wide off-way from a straight line, you know I heard or saw a wasps or something insect-y. Like. At least you know i’m the best radar for them. At least, it is the fear of being stung by then, rather than of the insects themselves, so I’m okay with just seeing them and/or hearing them if they can’t access me. Although the sounds make me tense like BUZZING-oh its okay XD - Your guilty pleasure: I see a cat, I hope I can pet the cat, I won’t bother the cat but if there’s  cat and cat willing, I’ll pet cat. Same with dogs, though cats feel calmer so easier to be around. Also tbh food? I’m weak to good food, or just anything tasy enough for me, which is pretty much anything (that isnt overcooked or the very few tastes I wont like). - Ambitions for the future: In all honesty, being able to continue with the life i’ve created. Take care of mom, visit&see my brother every weekend, spend my way between writing and working on little things and my hobbies. I do wish to be able eventually to travel and meet my online friends (and/or welcome them here). And tbh I have zero wish to get known, if I get some fanbase and just enough to contribute at home, i’ll be the happiest. The only real dream for future I have is a shared one, mom and my bro (and I) kind of hope we’ll one day be able to live in a house together, either those houses that can be split in smaller houses (like three small flats making up a bigger house), or simply that it has enough rooms for each of us to have a personal space.

LAYER THREE: THOUGHTS - Your first thoughts waking up: Vary, half the time it can be some leftover dreams so it’s like, finishing a thought from a dream (including at times literally thinking oh i’m dreaming ohhhh i’m waking up), sometimes it’ll be the slow realization of a sound, most often there’s also hearing if mom is awake (or not). Then I can daydream a bit. - What you think about before bed: Most often, daydreaming to sleep.

LAYER FOUR: WHAT’S BETTER? - Single or group dates: Not sure tbh, I guess both depending on people and context? - To be loved or respected:  Respect. You can love without respect; but respect is a form of love in itself. Like I’d honestly much prefer someone who respect me but doesn’t feel much of anything, that someone who “loves” me but doesn’t have respect. Of course, if I’m loved and respected, that’s the best. - Beauty or brains: Either one or both. I honestly see people as whole, so I can see “details”, but I also see the whole. Probably both is the most correct reply, though beauty has a bit less impact on me than brains, but beauty is subjective so. - Dogs or cats: Both, though I do have a preference for cats, cat-energy is like... calm. I mean they can be no calm at all, but their overall energy feel calmer than dogs. But I love both.

LAYER FIVE: DO YOU. - Lie: I myself tend to be truthful, although I can also simply omit truths if voicing them has no real impact or need, mostly it’s like, if something doesnt feel important to share, I wouldn’t really think of it, but if asked or if the subject comes to it, it might pop into my head. So basically I don’t lie (unless I’d have a pretty good reason life safety), I’d mind my words with hurtful truth (if they have to be voiced), and I don’t really care if i’m lied to, as long as it’s not malicious. - Believe in yourself: I think? I’m secure in myself now, so yeah I guess there’s this implicit confidence I know myself enough. Like I can have insecurities, but I guess I believe in myself to handle it so. - Believe in love: I do, I believe in all forms of love, including at first sight, though I also believe it needs work to remain love, and the loves that don’t have a real label (like, there’s romantic, platonic, queerplatonic, and then those loves you can’t really place as any of the three but could be any of the three). And I believe friendship love and family love are just as strong as others, but I kind of believe more in family of the heart than of blood? And that its basically luck when you have a heart’s family that’s also blood family. Like they are part of your heart family, and the fact you’re blood related is just a secondary detail. - Want someone: I do feel like it would be nice to have a partner (or partners, I’m neutral about exclusivity), but I’m going out of my way to look for one. That’s why I also feel like if I ever have someone, it’ll be a friend, someone I know and we think okay we could be partners too. I’m not ruling out meeting someone that gets me doki-doki but yeah, I’d still want to know them better first. I easily crush, but I don’t easily fall (and I easily friendship crush too and confused crush sooOOO).

LAYER SIX: EVER? - Been on stage: Not really? Presentation yes, but nothing else. I mean one time a presentation took the form of a small sketch but. Yeah no real stage. - Done drugs: No. - Changed who you were to fit in: I don’t think so? I adapt, but that’s part of myself. But I don’t change the other parts? Like I’m quiet naturally, I can become chatty about cetain things (especially if I feel comfortable, which is harder in person), and I’m not going to shut up nor am I going to speak up if I don’t want to. If I can see people aren’t listening, i’m also not going to bother trying. The same kind of logic is applied to anything, I can notice what works and doesn’t work in a given setting, but I only adjust if I want to and if it’s not going against who I am.

LAYER SEVEN: FAVORITES - Favorite color: Blue, green, silver, gold, white, black. - Favorite animal: Foxes, cats, felines&canines in general, horses. I also blame WWX and LWJ from making me coo harder at bunnies now. EDIT: Yo I’m an idiot whose brain didn’t work, but I actuall love wolves as much as foxes, they need to be properly mentioned and I dont know why I forgot :’D - Favorite movie: I can’t say I have faves in movies? There are movies I enjoyed, but none I consider faves, unlike animes/mangas or games. - Favorite game: Tales of Symphonia, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, Skyrim, Tales of Vesperia, Breath of the WIld, Pokemon games (X/Y so far my favourite with weakness for FR/LG).

LAYER EIGHT: AGE - Day your next birthday will be: July, 2nd - How old will you be: 27 (I still mind-freeze because part of me still feel like I’m, what, 24? Not quite anymore at the 20/21 stage, but not really past my mid-twenties) - Does age matter: Not really, it’s people personality and their ability to handle the world, as well as how they interact with it. In a sense, its the age you feel like that matters more, but to yourself. Like yeah you can care about the number ages of people around you, but its how they are and feel and act that end up mattering more.

[llycaons]

ep1 rewatch thoughts

the first scene is very carefully composed wrt character interactions - every single shot, ever turn of the head and step the characters take, every time they look at each other, it seems momentous and historical

of course, in the context of the show, it is, these are the arguably the two of the three most important character relationships of the show (sorry, yanli, you’ve been erased again. I know you were the third). but it’s a bold move when first time viewers don’t know any of these people

the way wwx says “lan zhan” is so gentle and defeated. I love you but I’m tired, please let me go

different subs for viki - they literally translate titles. that’s fine, just a little getting used to

as much as I hate to admit it, reading the novel gave this episode so much more context. cql really did not bother to explain a lot of worldbuilding that would have made it a much less confusing opening. ex. lan juniors have protection arrays stitched into their robes, so that’s why they threw them at the puppet. also, the papers mzy shoves at wwx are actually mxy’s own writings, a diary of sorts that talks about his life and provides exposition for the audience

when “mxy” pulls the spirit lure flag out of mzy’s pocket and proves he’s been stealing, you can see mzy’s accomplice making the “yikes” face in the background lol

the lan spiritual power bursts are blue, while all of wwx’s are red. I don’t recall if he ever did this after his core removal so this may be another indication his core is regenerated

I was confused on my earlier viewing, but in cql, wwx really was brought back in his own body, presumably at the same age, with his scars removed and his core regenerated

“mxy” makes airplane noises as he runs away with his arms outstretched. airplanes don’t exist in the untamed.

our first rendition of wuji is a very gentle and quiet version when wwx sees the cloud embroidery and remembers seeing lwj for the first time and physically has to sit down and contain himself. whew. the first episodes come in swinging. soulmates, you know?

a lot of questions about why wwx avoided lwj in cql despite remembering him well and clearly caring a lot about him. lots of explanations, really, none really given explicitly by the text but it’s not hard to think of a few reasons based on the kind of person wwx is and the kind of struggles he had in his previous life and the way he died

personally I think it was a combination of several reasons. first of all, he’s been alive for less than a day after...well. it’s overwhelming for him to just be alive again, to participate in the world. he’s still remembering people, piecing bits of himself together. he’s alright handling the kids because he’s an expert in the subject and a great teacher but anything closer to a real connection with someone from his past life has him wrecked. and lwj is one of the two living people with THE strongest connection to his past self. so naturally he’s nervous about handling that

I actually think another reason might be guilt and a reluctance to drag lwj back into...whatever mess he might be in. and honestly I think he may be doubtful that lwj still feels as close to him as he does to lwj, and he doesn't want to deal with that kind of loss, and would rather ignore the possibility entirely and keep the power of walking away in his own hands. we’ve seen that right after BM, too

of course, anyone who knows lwj (and wwx DOES know him) would know that lwj doesn’t just...stop caring about people because they’re dead. but that’s where the trauma and abuse come into play because they mess with his sense of self-worth and his relationships with other people. still, it definitely could have been clearer

I think this episode was dragged down as a whole by failures to clearly explain things like this. it was also kind of embarrassing to watch and not in a good way (it’s the ableism). however, it did what it needed to do effectively, it was emotionally evocative, the high romance was obvious, the action was engaging (if nonsensical), the mxy outfit with hair down was excellent, characters are introduced who we will meet later as young kids and that’s always really fun, and I really liked the techniques used to introduce wwx-as-mxy and the sacrifice ritual in general. solid first ep even if it was kind of bad.

[llycaons]

I said I was alert but I was in such a fuzzy headspace just now. regardless, my thoughts. episode 10

I always forget how the characters sound. their voices are translated in my head so I’m only half-listening to the actual dialogue. xxc has a much deeper voice than I remember

I don’t have a lot of thoughts about them? they’re relatively undeveloped characters. they don’t make me sad til later

the whole xy situation in yi city is still really upsetting to me so I’m going to just say he had weird vibes. borderline flirting but also extremely creepy

!!!! WEI WUXIAN!!!“When it comes to shamlessness, if I’m not first nobody would dare be second!!! KING!!! that phrase is so neatly worded, I love translations. it’s almost exactly the same at the netflix one.

so personally my preferred interpretation of the censorship is that gay people are so widely accepted that it’s not really worth specifically mentioning but obviously that doesn’t really explain everything or work in all situations. like maybe it depends on the clan, or the region or the person. and even people who want to be supportive end up making assumptions (like yanli telling wwx he’d marry a pretty girl after he’d met lwj. lol)

and the fact that so much is unspoken as the relationship develops kind of points to how bad the situation is and how neither of them are able to get into a relationship in that kind of environment

I know it’s due to censorship but honest to god when paired with their actions and arcs it ends up making them both look just really respectful and careful of each other’s boundaries (lwj not wanting to emulate his father while wwx doesn’t want to step over any lines with someone who isn’t ready for that) which is an interpretation I really really love

anyway the fact that xy is so heavily implied to be mlm makes me so mad. I would have rather he was homophobic in all honesty yi city is a nightmare. also he’s not attractive? the actor is fine but ppl who think he as a character is hot weird me out

oh! SL walks with his hand behind his back like lwj does! parallels, they continue

jc sees wwx visibly emotional about not getting to meet BSSR and looks...conflicted? upset for him? he doesn’t end up saying anything, because he’s jiang cheng and will openly communicate worry to wwx exactly twice in this entire show, poorly and much to his own regret. but I saw it. we see you, jc

on the other hand, literally every interaction with wwx he has he’s such a dick. would it kill you to be nice for once

nie mingjue intro!!!! hello sir!!!!! he’s so kind to say nice things about wwx and jc, they look so happy awww

I think it’s a fun hc that wwx thinks nmj was hot but I don’t talk about it because people will get weird with it. there’s an age gap there, please don’t make me write it all out, etc.

also nmj calling lwj “wangji” is so cute! that’s lwj’s pseudo big brother! he must have known lwj since he was little

I’ve seen a post that says lwj only bows a few times and to people not usually given respect, and that post is just not accurate. he bowed to the Jiang assembly in ep3, he bowed to xxc and SL, and he’s bowing to nmj

ah, roof-sleeping scene :) I do wonder if the fighting hadn’t started right then, would they have gotten together around now? I think it’s too early still tbh. wwx isn’t ready to deal with how serious his feelings are and lwj can’t even talk about them. but then I’ll see fics where they don’t say anything about it for 10+ years and im like this ain’t it either

wen chao shows up and more importantly so does wen zuliu!!! his first appearance!!

wzl is sexy in a bitter and exhausted divorced middle-aged man kind of way. would have been the funniest villain if xy’s actor wasn’t so committed to his character being absolutely unhinged

oof I just saw donghua wzl. yikes. ugly.

meng yao’s acting here is extraordinary. I know exactly what happens, I saw him kill that dude, and I’m still like “well maybe it wasn’t him :(’ this is not only because I am gullible and weak in the face of crying but also because he’s an extremely manipulative and slippery person who will do anything to survive, etc.

nmj is crying at the end of the episode. I think not only because his trust in MY has been betrayed and his clan is being ground under the heel of the wens but because he must have known that commanding officer personally. that was probably one of his brothers. I’m sure some of those tears were grief.

that being said, he kind of had it coming :/ he was an asshole