#ghosts bbc spoilers

[gracychelse]

This is a really interesting post, and I'm going to respond coming from a slightly mirrored position, in that I saw the UK first, and I like it a little better, but I've enjoyed both. Also I haven't watched the YouTube video the OP is referencing.

I actually really dislike the idea that you shouldn't have character development in a sitcom.

I agree that the US Ghosts has a lot more on paper developments for the Ghosts, lots of relationships develop move and change, lots of power reveals, lots of lore elements (possession), lots of different types of Ghosts (car ghosts, attached to a human ghosts, neighbor ghosts), bodies are found and a lot more new characters show up (80s prom teenager who sleeps in the attic, British ghosts in the shed, Carol). We also have a lot of character development. We find out that Trevor wasn't as selfish as he appeared, Isacc comes out and enters a relationship, Hetty opens up more, Thor accepts that his son married a Danish person and Flower accepts being in a couple not a throuple just to name a few.

However, for me at least, a lot of this development looses it's punch because there is so much of it. Part of what makes change really moving is when it's hard won. At the end of the UK Ghosts when Julian comes and doesn't apologise to Alison, but says he's glad that she came into their lives, that feels like real heart wrenching development. He has grown to a point where he can speak from the heart, not just do political bluster, and because it's been so gradual and hard won, it feels a lot more moving to me. Where as Trevor's development is more rushed, and to me, feels more like convenience/retconning. He very quickly is shown to have more to him than the sleazy wall street side, so when we find out that he gave his pants up for the kid being hazed it's nice, but it doesn't feel like as big a moment. We've seen him being moral/sentimental multiple times, so it doesn't massively humanise him.

There was a tumblr post I saw earlier this year, talking about stakes vs tension in a book, and I think this taps into it. In the UK Ghosts (for me) it can give us high tension with very minimal stakes. There's an episode where the steaks are 'Mike bought a zorb ball and doesn't want to show Alison right away, and she's having a back and forth with the neighbor' and the show manages to keep the tension and humor as he creeps around trying to free himself. Where as in the US show, to make it more tense they up the steaks. The neighbor is causing issues on the building project so Sam tried to entertain the neighbor's wife, but she ended up with the wife kicking the neighbor out, and then he stayed at the b&b, and they spoke to the ghosts at his house and worked out that he forgot an anniversary so they set up a romantic meal and the neighbors reconcile and also it was their orgy-versary because they're swinger's.

The writers want to make it more tense so they make the steaks higher (the neighbors might get divorced!) to try to increase the tension. If they had more of the skill of upping tension without upping stakes it would make the show feel a lot more grounded.

My next example is with Flower/Mary. Mary got 'Sucked off' and the ghosts tried to keep going, expressed their grief in different ways, had a memorial, and then she was gone. It was a sad and touching episode and she never came back. Kitty mentions things she learnt from it in forward episodes. In the US version, they saw that somone was 'sucked off' and went looking to see who it was (adding steaks to up the tension, who could it be!?) they worked out that Flower was the only person they couldn't find, so they did a memorial. Then Thor found an owl that the decided was her reincarnated, so they had to keep the owl in the house. He moved through it and decided to let her go (sad, but nicely done) and then half a season later it turned out she didn't go, she was stuck in a well. It takes a lot of the emotion out. She's not gone, and Thor didn't need to let go or learn/grow at all. They upped the streaks to try and increase the tension, but then they backpedaled and lost the oomph.

Another example it with an Isaac/Captain parallel. They both struggle with their sexuality at the start. Then Isaac comes out (Yay!), accepts himself (Yay!), starts dating a British officer (cute!) they get engaged (cool!), they have bachelor parties with some mixed wires about lap dances (a little done, but sure), Isaac gets cold feet and calls off the wedding (what?). Because the show kept upping the steaks when they wanted more tension, they got to the point where I wasn't as emotionally invested in the relationship because they burned through it so quickly. Where as the tension and poignancy of the Captain celebrating the two women getting married on the property was incredible!

I feel the US Ghosts has a lot more crammed in, and by upping the steaks short term, in my opinion it lessens the power of these twists and reveals. I really like when it subverts tropes (which it does far more than the UK one), but I feel like they could have made those subversions hit stronger if they had the time to stick before another thing was thrown on top.

I don't know if this is a side effect of longer seasons with more episodes to fill, or of different approaches to humor, but while I enjoy both shows I find the UK one has more emotional punch because it's a slower burn.

Tldr I think the US Ghosts uses upping the steaks to raise the tension in such a way that it looses its long term punch.

I don't really want to add to us vs uk ghosts discourse but I do wanna comment on something I noticed after reading comments on a video comparing the two shows

Disclaimer I do like both shows. I'm more of a fan of the us version because 1. I'm American 2. I watched it first and 3. I was insanely depressed when I first watched it so I'm attached

So in the video comparing the 2 (I didn't watch the video I just read the comments), the comments, which basically just served to shit on the us version, seemed to express that the character development between the shows is a major point of contention.

The consensus I saw is that people like the uk ghosts because they don't develop that much. They do develop but they stay themselves generally. Fanny will always be fanny, the captain won't come out, kitty will stay perpetually bubbly and obvlious, Julian will stay pretty awful etc.

I think the idea of not wanting characters to fully develop into better people and stay flawed is why so many uk fans are so critical of us show. Character development is major in the US version. Hetty becomes more open and accepting (barely but she's getting there), isaac is open about his sexuality (which the way people criticize that story makes me so mad it's a separate post), flower has more sober coherent moments and depth, and Trevor is shown to be a better person that he is perceived to be. I just used more direct parallels for comparison sake but all the characters have moments like that.

I can see why people like the subtleness of the uk development but some claim that is more intriguing to have flawed characters, which is fine but the us characters also aren't polished, they still have a long way to go. Many people who haven't watched the us show or watched more than 2 episodes think the characters are purely caricatures and the uk ghosts feel more human but both shows feel very human. Though the us ghosts are more distinct in their eras, they feel very human because they face regular human feelings and often subvert the tropes they represent.

But also the fact that are around for decades or centuries, they are bound to evolve at some point. Especially as they interact with other more modern ghosts and observe and communicate with livings.

Tldr many uk ghosts fans criticize the us show for too blatant character development but imo the us ghosts still feel very real and it makes sense for them to change over time

[casebasket]

while all the deaths are tragic in their own way (except morally depraved julian lol but that tracks so i love it) and all pretty well done and shown to us in bits and pieces so we can fill it out ourselves which i FROTH - i think the captain's reveal hits the most because of everything that came before it. 5 series of build up, showing us how he's by the book, a strict adherence to schedule kind of person, with a deep, almost fanatic respect for the military and its rules and ranks and files to the point it's a huge part of his identity, and then - spoilers - we're shown that he died defying all of it, breaking in to an esteemed veteran event, stealing the rank of some other officer to blend in, lying about his valor, just to be close to the person he loves, placing himself in a situation so personally, intimately, individually custom-catered to be as mortifying as possible for him that it literally killed him. and he wasn't even able to say the one thing he wanted to say before death took him. he died, and now he grips the baton his love gave him forever, wearing the badge he stole that serves as a reminder of his deceit that fateful day, eternally on the edge of confession. his name revealed to us finally from the whisper of his beloved.

[happylittleghost]

I just love this sad gay man so much

[buriedsecrets]

Thinking about how even after he could see that the Captain had died, Havers let his hand brush over The Captain's. That was just for him. Havers just wanted to keep that touch going for as long as he could.

[tandoorinightsmare]

Besties I'm not coping physically shaking rn

So I understand that I'll grow to like this episode eventually and that I may even be able to enjoy it but right now I am broken. Not an overstatement. My parents had to do some deep breathing with me and I've cried all my makeup off this is horrible.

Good ending bad feelings

[normalties]

just finished the Christmas special and I am screaming, crying, rolling on the floor, sobbing, absolutely distraught, depressed, jumping out of the window from the second floor of my house

[codenamecondor]

Oh, my poor, sweet Captain! 😭 I’m so glad Havers was there with him at the end 💔 and Fanny was right! He is brave!!! Brave, beautiful James 😭

(Also the stick was Havers’ 😭😫)

[bluethepearldiver]

When Alison and Mike moved they had to take the ghosts’ Christmas presents with them 😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔

[danepopfrippery]

Soo…genuinely asking… did the Captain die of gay panic?!

(All the sadder cuz seems his beloved was happy to see him)

[princeloww]

OFFICIAL THOUGHTS ON THE GHOSTS CHRISTMAS SPECIAL

I didn't like it - story-wise - THAT much. Obviously, I love the characters and the writers/actors and the story, so I enjoyed it and liked watching it---yet I just felt like,,, it wasn't that strong? And it almost disregarded and cheapened some of the meaning of S5?

I get the theme: moving on. You have to move on eventually, and life isn't always going to stay still. Sure. Life may be still for the ghosts, but their "family" is forever changing. They have a, while not infinite, almost endless amount of time --- but Alison doesn't. She needs to live her life while she still can, and it shouldn't be chained to the house and to those ghosts forever. She has her own family now - she should get to live her own life, not one dedicated to lives already lived.

The hotel is still made, and she still visits the ghosts. They aren't gone from her life, she just has gone off on her own to live her own.

I like that. I like the idea.

But I think they really could have done with more time. It all felt VERY quick, especially because of season 5 being so recent, and things seemed to go from 0 (staying) to 100 (moving on) very quickly. You could argue that's thematic - you don't get to choose when you're "sucked off" (move on). We learnt last season that there is no predicting it. Sometimes it just happens, and sometimes it needs to happen.

But all the same, from a story standpoint, it was just so sudden????

I think it made sense to happen eventually, and with Mike and Alison having a family now it MAKES SENSE, but it was just the speed with which we saw it that was jarring and somewhat disappointing, ending wise. It also felt like we missed out on a lot - like the hotel, for example.

In rough summary (I am clutching my ghosts book as I frantically write, this is not very coherent) - I love ghosts and im going to miss it. I liked the episode, as an episode of television, but I think it should have been longer to feel satisfying and not rushed.

I've loved ghosts for years now, and it's always been such a joy and a comfort to watch (especially with the fondess of early horrible histories added). I'll love you forever, Ghosts (even though your ending was slightly disappointing and I'm going to only rewatch up until the ending of season 5) (because that's the true ending in my mind) <3333

[spacelessbian]

I was so caught up in the intense emotions of the Captain's death scene that I completely missed his name. I still don't know, you guys.

[ultimatenomi]

Hands

[lerry-hazel]

The Captain's Secret?

So, I re-subscribed to Ghosts BBC tag, and guess what floated into my dashboard?

Don’t get me wrong, I do have a lot of thoughts about the name thing, and Havers thing, but I was not going to discuss them until later.

After getting an in-depth explanation from LR himself, I’d say I probably should just keep my opinions to myself, except  I’ve now got a question that left me reeling:

<spoiler>

So, obviously it's an unpopular opinion, but please tell me I'm not the only one who assumed Havers had long been a Polichinelle’s secret, and the actual shameful thing the Captain was no longer willing to keep from his found family was, you know, stealing his medals???

[buriedsecrets]

To be honest this callback to Redding Weddy with that lovely piece of music from those flashbacks got me almost as much as the death scene.

[borealing]

bbc ghosts (2019-2023)

[baynton]

BBC Ghosts | 5x03: Pineapple Day