#gabriel is still hawkmoth

[ramen8008]

I'M SORRY but the finale just came back to me and DID GABRIEL FUcKING USE HIS LAST WORDS TO TELL MARINETTE TO MAKE HIM A HERO?!?

Not to apologize to Adrien on his behalf??

Not to make Adrien happy??

Not to say he regrets being the reason Natalie died?!

Not that he regrets not being a good father?!?

NO THIS GODS DAM SELFISH PSYCHO of a man left his son ORPHAN and only cared to be known as a hero when gods know he doesn't deserve it?!?!

WHAT THE HELL?!?

[ninadove]

It’s going to be a decent while until the finale airs, so I’m writing this in advance, but I want to address something I already know will come up:

Do NOT talk shit about Marinette.

The basement scene in Re-creation was beautiful, and I don’t mean that just because it plays into my love for the humanity-being-its-own-form-of-magic trope. Marinette has been working through her trust issues throughout the season: overcoming her trauma from Derision and communicating with Adrien, relying on Chat Noir again, becoming more trusting of people in general. Her offering Gabriel a helping hand was the logical culmination of her arc.

It isn’t dumb. In fact it has worked in the past:

And it is also motivated by love. Love for Adrien, who she cares enough for to give her oldest enemy a chance. Love that Gabriel clearly does not have for his son, despite what he claims, or he would have finally made the right choice in this instant.

So even though I knew right away it was trouble, I’m glad they went for it. It truly goes to show how much our girl has grown, and how different she is from our now DEAD (🎉) main villain. I love her even more after this finale.

[sonia-kate]

Watched the Miraculous Paris special and

Opening narrated by Gabe? Yes, please! I want a whole spin-off! Or better, Gabriel's backstory, since Gabi Grassette, through treasure hunting up to right before the show starts! Maybe not even a tv show but a comic, they said they planned to make one about that, didn't they?

They... they really called him Betterfly in the English dub ;-; I mean, cool because he's just as punny as his son but come on...

Isn't that the thing that Monarch 1.0 was tied with in Destruction? Gimme that real quick and we'll fix Gabe in no time

Hopefully this Chekhov's gun will actually fire unlike some other ones we had in the show (cough cough Chat Noir and Hawkmoth being related cough cough Adrien finding Felix's monocle cough cough etc.)

Ok, won't comment on every single thing, but just the things that hit me the most

The pun cat fight was great. Need more of that

In alternate universe, Gabe moved on after Emilie's death and Adrien didn't. Local Adrien said that his friends were much help in that so it makes you wonder what would happen if instead of keeping Adrien in the dark, Gabe would just reveal whole thing to him? Of course, before Adrien even tries to get out to school. We could have had super-villain duo of father and son ^^

When Shadybug and Claw Noir became good and their costumes changed... Honestly, it was such a downgrade imo. Especially with Shadybug, she could have at least keep the hairstyle! She was so gorgeous!

Gotta admire how Gabriel got beaten in the chase through time, that same night he got cataclysmed and still had strength to go on villaining for the rest of the night. He really is a man of focus, commitment and a sheer fucking will. Most impressive

And he actually tried to visit Adrien, just how does one explain a hand-shaped burn of 3rd degree on your forearm... Ah, screw it, I'm still salty over how they characterised Gabe in season 5...

Also, when Gabe is the hero here and even got to make the opening but there's not an ounce of him in the ending card, ffs

Also also, alterGabe said that he had gotten the miraculous in the past from the Supreme to make their dream come true (cough SentiKids) and that the Supreme gives the miraculous to the powerful people... What if that weird rich people secret society is somehow connected to that? Maybe they promised Gabe extra help if he got something for them too, like we saw with Tomoe? Hopefully it won't a detail we'll completely forget about ;-;

[saywha413]

who was going to tell me that in english zhongli (genshin impact) is voiced by hawkmoth (miraculous ladybug)

[bugoutreviewgirlie]

Suddenly remembered Hawkmoth asking "getting sentimental over a sentimonster?" and I had the intense need to slap the ever living frick out of him!!

YOUR SON IS A SENTIMONSTER YOU JERK DIE DIE DIE

[friendfromdsmp]

Just wanna point out that technically speaking Adrien can still confront Gabriel through the use of a kwagatama from Duusu. It won’t be the same obviously but it’s still an option for him to get closure and speak to Gabriel from beyond the grave, albeit he won’t remember anything about S5

[meliake]

One of the saddest things about mlb to me is how Marinette and Adrien are affected by their positions as Ladybug and Chat Noir in vastly different ways.

For Marinette, being Ladybug is such a source of stress and pressure she's destroying herself from the inside, constantly worrying over if every decision she makes is best for the city. She's 14 and unable to cope with the stress that comes with patrolling the city every day, or deciding who is trustworthy enough to hold a miraculous. Every move that backfires is immediatly her own fault and her own responsibility. That's her main conflict with her identity throughout the series.

Adrien is the opposite. While being Chat Noir can still be a source of stress, it's more like his get out of jail free card. He gets to leave his house and just exist in an environment absent of rules and restrictions. Everyday he chooses to become Chat Noir because between being Adrien and Chat, it's an easy choice. He walks on eggshells constantly in an attempt to not be pulled out of school or anything more extreme and isolating. (ie being locked in a gridded prison cell in season 5) Adrien is so caught up in trying to appease his father in his civilian life he's unable to actually live. He chooses risking his life over and over as Chat instead of never really living a life at all.

[nothawkmothofficial]

Which of DC’s Lantern Corps do you most identify with?

Green because I feel that I embody will most powerfully of the lantern colours

[autistic-daydreamer]

Hawkmoth: children should always be free to do what they want!

Can we get that in writing?

[kari-go]

Hi. So, since it's technicly the start point of the whole (cannon) story, is the "Feast incedent" still cannon? If I'm correct, your peacock still can call upon a..... Is itt still a Sentinel, if it's just a puppet? So, it still possible, so, my question is, is it still cannon? If yes, do you have a Peacock!Fu designe? (I don't really consider cannon a designe, it's just Fu in Mayura's suit).... There are not really any, and I would be interested, what you come up with! Thank you for the anwser, have a nice day🙂🦚

No, the feast incident didn't happen, the temples got destroyed by natural disasters, rogue holders or they were abandoned and forgotten, slowly blending into the environment more as time went by.

I also gave the ladybug the power to make a puppet (Champion, the second power), the peacock is different. It changes emotions and can read someone's mind.

[chaos-has-theories]

The thing about Gabriel Agreste is all the atrocities.

The thing about Harry Clown is that he supports the atrocities. The thing about Emilie Agreste is that she commits the atrocities. The thing about Nathalie Sanceour is that she kinda does both.

(They all think they have a hard line for all of it. They all think the line is Adrien. They are all wrong.)

[ninadove]

NINA!! I AM SO INVESTED IN ALL THE WRITING YOU'VE SHARED FOR YOUR DOG AND FOX AU I AM RUNNING IN A CIRCLE... LOVELY LOVELY UNIVERSE BRILLIANT WRITING <333 For the ask game maybe an 18 or 21 if you're up for it!! 💚💜

GRAY YOU ARE SO KIND!!!!! Thank you for your sweet words (and for your kudos — they are seen and appreciated)! 💚💜

18. Share the scene you just wrote, written from another character’s POV.

Oooh, that’s very interesting. The last scene I wrote is a confrontation between Felix and Gabriel, and I chose the POV very strategically. Let’s unreliable-narrator this bit, shall we.

“Watch your tone, Felix. Remember who holds the reins here.”

“How could I forget.” Trixx echoed his snort, revelling in his riot. “I’ll let you in on a secret, Uncle: none of what you are doing serves your family. Terrorising the good people of Paris is simply your vocation.”

“Silence!”

The order was a clap of lightning, a gunshot fired into the darkness; butterflies scattered with a rustling of wings, taking their feeble glow with them.

When Uncle grabbed his collar, Felix refused to look down.

“Your father obviously raised you wrong,” Hawkmoth spat, teeth baring into a growl. “But you live under my roof now, and things are going to be much, much different. Do I make myself clear?”

Silence. The child refused to bow down, blood boiling from disgust.

“I said,” Uncle repeated, breathing down his face. “Do I make myself clear?”

Still no words: Felix’s chin tilted upwards, pointing to the bump under his glove. With an irritated huff, Hawkmoth let go of the collar — and of the command.

21. Share 3 songs that would belong on a playlist for this chapter/fic.

Kill the Lights by Set It Off: I actually titled one of the fics in this series after this song! This AU relies a lot on masks, secrets and illusions, so it’s the perfect fit.

Ruthlessness from EPIC — The Ocean Saga: you already know this one! I was listening to it on loop during the holidays when suddenly it hit me. The final twist in this AU exists purely because of this song.

Thank God I Do by Lauren Daigle: this one was actually recommended by @trishacollins a while back! I am physically incapable of not hurt/comforting the cousins.

Thank you for the ask! 🐶🦊

[nahblubunny]

‼️‼️MAJOR SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN’T SEEN THE LATEST EPISODES OF SEASON 5‼️‼️

Sorry to be THAT person… the miraculous are no longer their former form, they’re now rings that Monarch keeps hidden under his gloves during his civilian self so he can ✨Magically✨transfer the essence of the Kwamii to each and every Alliance Ring that was helped created with Kagamii’s mother. Another reason he created those rings was to pinpoint exactly who Ladybug and Cat Noir were because if they’re forced to fight an akuma, and they’re wearing those rings(which they don’t anyways seeing as they saw that danger of if they wore them) then Gabriel would be notified about who took their rings off, the unusual patterns of a normal civilian during A Megakuma Alert.

There are so many stupid aspects of the "the miracuclass gets to keep their miraculouses full time after Monarch is defeated" thing it's a little ridiculous but I suppose they're all just going to ignore that all their friends suddenly have new jewelry that they inexplicably can't take off right after Ladybug gets the miraculouses back. Is Kim going to wear the monkey headpiece in the pool. Can the horse disguise itself as prescription lenses or does Max just have to wear 2 sets of glasses now

Someone with artistic skills pls draw the madness

[buggachat]

AU where Gabriel stops caring about his stupid dead wife and realizes that his Ladybug and Chat Noir-themed fall line is selling more than any of his other products ever have. Hes still evil but in the corporate way and continues being Hawkmoth not to defeat them, but just to advertise his products. Akumas increasingly are just abused Gabriel employees whose powers are to put their designs on people. Ladybug and Chat Noir stop caring about being hit by enemy powers because it usually just puts them in a cute dress or whatever. Gabriel discovers his son is Chat Noir and instead of forcing Adrien into villainy he forces Chat Noir into modeling. It is the fucking worst possible timeline for Adrien. When Ladybiquity shows up and tells Chat Noir that she’s from an alternate universe where Hawkmoth got all the miraculouses and goes by Monarch and is dying of cataclysm and causing chaos across the multiverse he asks her to take him with her

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Wait, I was reading your posts and came across something I've found confusing. How is Adrien asking Ladybug wth she is doing in Volpina a bad thing? From Adrien's perspective, Ladybug's a celebrity tracking down a middle schooler with zero clout and humiliating her for lying about meeting her before. That's, uh yeah? Imagine if that happened irl lmao. Millions of teenage girls would perish at 1D's hands. My middle school would be a horror story. And it's made clear multiple times in the episode that her motivation is jealousy. It's one of the few episodes where the lesson Marinette gets makes sense I think, because she was genuinely spiteful in shitting on this random girl in front of her crush. That's significantly different than Ladybug just asking for a retraction from the Ladyblog. It's also one of the few times when Adrien's celebrity background actually affects how he acts, and it makes sense that Marinette doesn't make the connection between superhero=celebrity=not allowed to scream at middleschoolers in public. If half the kids in her school didn't lie about meeting Ladybug before, my suspension of disbelief is gone.

I've seen this argument before and it makes no sense to me, especially in the context of the lie that Lila actually told and the way the Lila confrontation actually goes down. A lot of people who have this take seem to think that Lila's lie was, "Ladybug saved me," and that Ladybug made a big public confrontation which is not what canon actually gave us. The confrontation was done in a mostly private setting and, while we never see Lila's full Ladyblog interview, this is how Ladybug sums up the interview in Volpina:

Ladybug:(sarcastically) Well hey Lila! How's it going? Long time no see. I saw your interview on the Ladyblog, awesome job. Oh sure! I remember our instant connection when I saved your life and we've been really good friends ever since! Practically BFF's! Uh actually, when did I save your life again, Lila? I don't recall. Oh yes! Of course, now I remember. Never! And we're not friends either! Miss Show-Off here was trying to impress you and everyone around her.

Lila didn't just lie about meeting Ladybug, she lied about having an ongoing, close relationship with Ladybug, two very different things. And Ladybug isn't just a celebrity, she's a superhero who is fighting an active terrorist. If I had to rewrite this confrontation, I'd keep it pretty much the same and just change the "Miss Show-Off" line to something like:

Miss Show-Off here was trying to impress you and everyone around her, putting herself and all of you at major risk! You know that Hawkmoth would do anything to get these, right? (gestures at her earrings) Did you even stop to think about what he'd do if he learned the identity of my supposed best friend? Of course not. You were too busy trying to look cool to stop and think things through like an actual superhero! We keep our identities and relationships secret for a reason!

Is this the kindest, most gentle way to confront someone like Lila? No, but it's very in character for Marinette to be filled with righteous fury when she sees someone using her name for their own personal gain. I really can't blame her for getting incredibly angry at this total stranger presenting herself as a Ladybug authority and using that authority to manipulate Marinette's friends. As I've said before, take away the crush complication and Marinette's actions still make total sense to me.

I'm not a huge proponent of virtue ethics. That's the idea that you need proper motivation for an act to be morally justified. If you do the right thing for the wrong reason, then the act is bad no matter how good the results and vice versa. If you view the world that way, then sure, you could possibly argue that Marinette's actions were wrong just like you can also argue that Gabriel's actions were totally fine, but I don't view the world that way. Switch Marinette's motivation from jealousy and a little righteous fury to pure righteous fury and almost nothing changes. She'd still need to confront Lila, the words would just be a little different.

It's not like this confrontation stops Lila, either. Chameleon gives us this:

Lila: (in flashback) Not only did Ladybug save my life, we've become very close friends. Marinette: She lies with every breath. Nino: Wait. You eavesdropped on Lila and Adrien? That's not cool. Alya: A good reporter always verifies her sources. Can you prove she doesn't actually know Ladybug?

Quick mini rant before I give the next Chameleon quote: this isn't how verifying your sources works, Alya! You should be verifying that Lila does know Ladybug, not the other way around! Right now, Marinette and Lila have equal authority on the topic as far as you know and there is no evidence to support either claim, so you should be looking for proof that Lila isn't lying! Proof isn't a first come, first serve problem even though a lot of people fall into that trap. This is especially true since Lila goes on to make claims like this:

Lila: Of course Ladybug saved my life. She never misses an opportunity to rescue her best friends. Max: Didn't your tinnitus give you vertigo when you went up the Eiffel Tower? Lila: Oh no. Ladybug knows me so well that she brought me an earplug to stick in my right ear.

So Lila keeps right on lying about her relationship with Ladybug, presenting them as close friends, making it even harder for me to get on the "Marinette was in the wrong for privately confronting Lila" train. If anything, Marinette was too tame! She needed to go full scorched earth and have Alya post a public retraction that included a message about the dangers of claiming to be personal friends with someone you don't actually know.

If the show went that route and had Ladybug give an equally furious smack-down and Alya posted it without a second thought, THEN I'd probably be on team "Marinette needed to tone herself down because she went too far" because that isn't a heat-of-the-moment reaction. It's something Marinette would have time to think through. But Volpina didn't go there. Instead, we just get Marinette reacting live to someone using her name to flirt with her crush. Remember, this is the setup to Marinette transforming and jumping in to stop Lila:

Lila: Not only did Ladybug save my life, we've become very close friends because we have something very special in common- it's what I wanted to tell you about. I'm the descendant of a vixen superheroine myself, Volpina. Adrien: Volpina? Marinette: Volpina? Adrien: Wait a minute! I think I read about her in my book. Lila:(stopping him from grabbing the book) Of course she's in your book. She's one of the most important superheroes. More powerful and more celebrated than Ladybug. Between you and me Ladybug doesn't even make the top ten. My grandma gave me this necklace. [Marinette runs off to transform] Adrien: (holding Lila's necklace) Are you telling me this is a Miraculous?! (Ladybug lands in front of them)

This wasn't a planned confrontation. It was Marinette reacting live to some pretty massive lies. If Ladybug had been swinging by and just overhead this, then the scene once again wouldn't change much. That's why blaming Marinette for confronting Lila in the "wrong way" feels so victim blame-y to me. "How dare Ladybug not be perfectly poised at all times and react with grace when someone lies about being her close friend and teammate!" is not a take I'm ever going to agree with. And if you want to use the middle schooler defense? Then it applies to Marinette, too. She and Lila are the same age. Why the different standards just because Marinette has fame that she never asked for or sought out?

I've never been much of a fan of holding celebrities to an "always on" standard where their every interaction needs to be done with poise and grace even if the interaction happens out in the wild and not at a planned even where the celebrity can be mentally prepared for dealing with fans. That's extra true for accidental celebrities like Ladybug. Marinette didn't take up the earrings for fame and they certainly haven't brought her fortune, plus she has no PR training. Expecting her to be a PR master who knows how to handle her accidental fame is, once again, a little too victim blame-y for my tastes. Ladybug is here to save the world, not sign autographs. You can hold her to politician standards when you start paying her for risking her life on the daily.

There's a version of Lila where I would have a different take. A version where the lie really is minor and Marinette really did "overreact", but even there my lesson wouldn't be "Marinette was totally in the wrong" because I genuinely think that sends the wrong message to kids and kids are the show's target audience. Think about what you're actually saying here, "Because Marinette is famous, she needs to accept that people will lie about her and just ignore them even if people believe the lie."

While that isn't exactly a wrong take, it's still really messed up. It's not okay for people to use Marinette's name like that just because she's famous. The reason she needs to learn to let it go is because that's what's best for her mental health, not because her fame makes her lesser than others when it comes to things like personal privacy. The lies are not magically okay just because she's well known.

Remember, Marinette is a fictional character, but the kids watching this show are very real and they're way more likely to be Lilas than Marinettes. And the kids that do relate to Marinette in this episode? They'll be kids who have dealt with the rumor mill spreading lies about them or their friends without the celebrity complication. The show should not be telling either set of kids that Marinette is the one in the wrong here. That is the wrong moral and why I hate this episode so much. I might feel differently if the intended audience was teens and if this plot was allowed to be more complex, but none of that is true. The show is aimed at kids ages 5 to 12 and every episode is supposed to teach its own moral with Volpina's moral being "Marinette was explicitly and totally in the wrong here."

This is the age of internet personalities where there are more easily-accessible celebrities than ever and where many of them do not have the wealth needed to protect themselves from fans nor the PR training to know how to handle extreme fans if there even is PR training for that! That means that it's honestly really important for kids to learn to view these individuals as people who it's wrong to lie about and who deserve the same respect as non-famous people. Treating celebrities as public commodities is how we get things like the Kit Connor scandal where an 18-year-old actor felt forced to publicly come out because the internet wouldn't shut up about his sexuality. Oh, and since you brought up one direction, I'll also note that the band members have publicly stated that online shipping discourse has negatively impacted their relationships. So, yeah, I'm never going to agree that kids should be told that it's okay to lie about celebrities or treat them as fictional characters to play with and that the celebrities are the ones who are wrong if they get upset about that behavior. That shit is toxic.

If we go the "minor" lie route, then my version of this episode would be a very sad one where Marinette learns that people are going to ignore her boundaries and lie about her and there's nothing she can do about it. A lesson in mental health training that will hopefully help kids who are dealing with bullies, but that does not present Marinette as totally in the wrong. It just teaches her when to pick a fight and when to let it go, which is a very important skill to learn even outside of lies about your own person. There will be many times when you hear people say something that you vehemently disagree with and it's important to learn when to pick a fight and when to just let it go, knowing that no good will come from speaking up even if you're 100% in the right. It's a very sad, but also very necessary skill.

I think Adrien has a place in that story. A place where he still tells Ladybug to let it go, but it should NOT have been played the way it was in canon where he acted like Ladybug was totally out of line. He needed to be way more compassionate and understanding of her very justified anger. I've written Adrien giving advice on this topic before and it's always presented as, "people are going to be assholes and you have to learn to ignore them for your own well being," not as, "you are wrong to be upset about strangers telling lies about you. You agreed to deal with this when you decided to be a hero" because what kind of asinine lesson is that?

You could also keep Adrien's canon reaction and have the lesson be him learning that it's okay to have boundaries. That his fame doesn't negate his bodily autonomy and right to be treated with dignity. That people chasing him down, invading his personal space, and otherwise preventing him from living a normal life is wrong. I love it when fanfics take this approach to Adrien's part in the Lila conflict. It's very cathartic to see his friends supporting him and protecting him from Lila.

I really have tried to see Volpina from the "Marinette was totally in the wrong" perspective because I've come across it several times, but I just can't wrap my head around it. If you've got a counter argument, then feel free to try to change my mind because I've given you my full thoughts here, but know that I'm probably not budging on this one. You'd have to make some pretty dramatic changes to canon for me to feel like this take has a point. I think the only way that I'd be on Lila's side is if it was very clear that no one believed Lila and Marinette still had the same reaction that we see in canon as that does feel like going too far. But everyone believed Lila so that's not a solid argument and I'm just never going to agree that people have to be cool with others lying about them just because they're famous. I honestly despise celebrity culture so much and hate that people are basically forced to deal with that bullshit if they want to be successful in certain artistic fields.

[bigfatbreak]

If the Kwami remember the old timeline, then Wayzz, Tikki and Plagg must remember Adrien and Marinette, right? Wouldn't they lead Fu to them? Or is something preventing Fu from doing that/Fu thinks it's too risky to make a move with Hawkmoth/Gabriel watching??

well... hm, there's kind of a problem. The timeline was mostly reset, but there are lingering echoes that things aren't right. For one, the Kwami remember the last timeline - so do the Sentikids, and in fact, so do robots/AI's of any fashion. Not only that, but some mechanisms, nonorganics, exist as though the last timeline was still in place, like passwords and lingering, half-corrupted photographs in dead links and dead blogs.

...so,

uh. ehe. oops.