#francione

[therepublicofletters]

Thinking about the Palazzo Gondi step end snail and hedgehog

[bhagavanbhakthi]

Violence or Non-violence - What Hinduism says?

[quotelr]

So it is always preferable to discuss the matter of veganism in a non-judgemental way. Remember that to most people, eating flesh or dairy and using animal products such as leather, wool, and silk, is as normal as breathing air or drinking water. A person who consumes dairy or uses animal products is not necessarily or usually what a recent and unpopular American president labelled an "evil doer.

Gary L. Francione

[jeanetjeannepatin]

Mercredi 24 juillet 2024 à 19H, la Petite Boutique Fantasque retrouve la carrière d'Agathe, lecture d'un extrait de Francion de Charles Sorel. Où l'on voit que l'on peut vendre le pucelage de sa nièceplusieurs fois.  La phrase du jour est tirée du morceau Optimise mon âme de Fernand Bernadi : "On ne devient pas quelqu'un d'important en sifflant les pin ups au passage".

Programmation musicale : 1) Optimise ton âme (Fernand Bernadi) 2) S'abreuver (Dora / Caroline Champy) 3) Musette walz (John Zorn)  4) Allégresse des vainqueurs (François Couperin) Scott Ross 5) Les Bagatelles (François Couperin) Scott Ross 6) Le voyage (Raoul Dugay)  7) Veronika (Jean Pax Mefret)

+ lecture d'un nouvel extrait de Françion de Charles Sorel, sixième partie de la carrière d'Agathe par Pascale Rémi

Pour ceux qui auraient piscine indienne, ou toute autre obligation, il y a une possibilité de rattrapage avec les podcasts de la PBF : https://www.mixcloud.com/RadioRadioToulouse/a-quoi-sert-toute-cette-viande-creusée-la-petite-boutique-fantasque/

Sus aux Philistins !

Toile de Marcel Gromaire 

[dipnotski]

Gary L. Francione, Anna Charlton – Hayvan Haklarını Savunmak (2024)

Şiddetin her türlüsün hüküm sürmeye devam ettiği bir çağda yaşıyoruz. Bu şiddetin en büyük mağdurları da hayvanlar. Her yıl milyonlarca hayvan; yiyecek, giyecek, ilaç, eğlence gibi amaçlarla öldürülüyor. Ancak hayvanların ahlaken bir değeri olduğunu ve onların da hissedebildiğini düşünüyorsak hayvan sömürüsünü sona erdirmek zorundayız. Abolisyon, insanların köleliğini ve insan sömürüsünü nasıl…

[vegandude72]

[littlesparklight]

A (not exhaustive) inventory of Astyanax's death and survival.

In the Little Iliad, Neoptolemos is the killer. In the Iliou Persis, Odysseus is the killer.

In the Trojan Women we don't actually know who does the deed, "merely" that Odysseus is singled out as the (major) voice who argued for his death. As Andrew Erskine in Troy Between Greece and Rome points out (referencing another academic as well), given the lack of detail in what's left to us, Odysseus might well have been involved in Astyanax's death in the Little Iliad as well, in the same role he has in here in the Trojan Women.

Seneca (Troades) follows Euripides in the public deliberation and has Odysseus being present for Astyanax's death, but he has Astyanax leap voluntarily. (Excuse me, WTF.)

Quintus of Smyrna, in his Posthomerica, has the killing be done by "the Greeks". Not just the deliberation like in the Trojan Women, but "they" seized him and tossed him from the wall. Whether intended or not, it makes it read a little like a mob scene. (edited to add this, because I'd forgotten to check.)

Tryphiodoros, in the Taking of Ilios, has it again be Odysseus.

So what we get is that even when Odysseus isn't actively the hand that commits the deed, he's the (first? major? leading?) voice in claiming it "needs" to be done. For the ~safety of Greece~, of course.

So, now we come to myths and stories of Astyanax's survival. It's mostly here the "not exhaustive" disclaimer applies. For a lot of the Medieval sources (where this idea flourishes) I can't double check if they say anything about who/how Astyanax survives.

With that said; the Medieval manuscripts aren't the earliest ideas of Astyanax's survival!

One is late Classical or earlier; Dionysios of Halikarnassos reports of the Ilians (that is, the Anatolian Greeks of the "modern" Ilion/Troy, built somewhere after ~1000 BC) had a founding legend that involved Astyanax and Askanios. Given that Astyanax can approach his cousin after being released by Neoptolemos, presumably Neoptolemos didn't kill Astyanax but rather take him along into slavery with his mother and Helenos.

I'll just include this screencap from Troy Between Greece and Rome for the next bit since it's easier:

On to the Medieval sources; the absolute earliest appearances of Astyanax here is as the founder of the Franks, now named Francion/Francus. French Wikipedia has a note to an author that says that Astyanax's survival was effected by (unnamed in the text and note) Medieval authors by the Greeks softening up and ending up not killing Asyanax because of his beauty.

Next is the "Andromache swaps Astyanax for another child and the Greeks (more like Odysseus) is tricked and kills the substitute". It has several appearances/uses, but the earliest (at least by the list in Wikipedia) seems to be Boiardo's Orlando Innamorato (1495).

While being unable to, like, check if anyone is named as the rescuer in some of these (Wiki also has an unsourced mention of Talthybios), in general we seem to land on either Neoptolemos or, in later stories, Andromache herself. I wouldn't think Neoptolemos ends up not killing Astyanax out of the goodness of his heart, more as a way to control Andromache, but there it is either way. Odysseus is only ever an obstacle to be worked around, which isn't odd given how often he is either the killer, or, maybe far more important, the voice to argue that Astyanax need to die. Not so odd he'd then be construed in later stories as the character to be specifically tricked by the child-swap.

I'll put the sources under the cut!

(For the Little Iliad) Scholiast on Lycophr. Alex., 1268: "Then the bright son of bold Achilles led the wife of Hector to the hollow ships; but her son he snatched from the bosom of his rich-haired nurse and seized him by the foot and cast him from a tower. So when he had fallen bloody death and hard fate seized on Astyanax. And Neoptolemus chose out Andromache, Hector's well-girded wife, and the chiefs of all the Achaeans gave her to him to hold requiting him with a welcome prize. And he put Aeneas, the famous son of horse-taming Anchises, on board his sea-faring ships, a prize surpassing those of all the Danaans."

(For the Sack of Ilion/Ilioupersis) The Greeks, after burning the city, sacrifice Polyxena at the tomb of Achilles: Odysseus murders Astyanax; Neoptolemus takes Andromache as his prize, and the remaining spoils are divided.

(Note 136 to Apllodorus' Library, trans. Frazer) Compare Arctinus, Ilii Persis, summarized by Proclus, in Epicorum Graecorum Fragmenta, ed. G. Kinkel, p. 50; Eur. Tro. 719-739, Eur. Tro. 1133-1135; Eur. And. 8-11; Paus. 10.26.9; Quintus Smyrnaeus, Posthomerica xiii.251-257; Tryphiodorus, Excidium Ilii 644-646; Tzetzes, Scholiast on Lycophron 1263; Scholiast on Eur. Andr. 10; Ov. Met. 13.415-417; Hyginus, Fab. 109; Seneca, Troades 524ff., 1063ff. While ancient writers generally agree that Astyanax was killed by being thrown from a tower at or after the sack of Troy, they differ as to the agent of his death. Arctinus, as reported by Proclus, says merely that he was killed by Ulysses. Tryphiodorus reports that he was hurled by Ulysses from a high tower. On the other hand, Lesches in the Little Iliad said that it was Neoptolemus who snatched Astyanax from his mother's lap and cast him down from the battlements (Tzetzes and Paus. 10.26.9). According to Euripides and Seneca, the murder of the child was not perpetrated in hot blood during the sack of Troy but was deliberately executed after the capture of the city in pursuance of a decree passed by the Greeks in a regular assembly. This seems to have been the version followed by Apollodorus, who apparently regarded the death of Astyanax as a sacrifice, like the slaughter of Polyxena on the grave of Achilles. But the killing of Astyanax was not thus viewed by our other ancient authorities, unless we except Seneca, who describes how Astyanax leaped voluntarily from the wall while Ulysses was reciting the words of the soothsayer Calchas and invoking the cruel gods to attend the rite.

(Trojan Women, Euripides) Talthybius You that once were the wife of Hector, bravest of the Phrygians, [710] do not hate me, for I am not a willing messenger. The Danaids and sons of Pelops both command—

Andromache What is it? your prelude bodes evil news.

[…]

Talthybius They mean to slay your son; there is my hateful message to you.

Andromache [720] Oh me! this is worse tidings than my forced marriage.

Talthybius So spoke Odysseus to the assembled Hellenes, and his word prevails.

Andromache Oh, once again alas! there is no measure in the woes I bear.

Talthybius He said they should not rear so brave a father's son.

(Dionysios of Halikarnassos; Ant. Rom. 1. 47. 5–6) Aineias . . . sent Askanios, the eldest of his sons, with some of the allies, mainly Phrygians, to the land called Daskylitis, where the Askanian lake is, since his son had been invited by the inhabitants to rule over them. Askanios did not dwell there for long. When Skamandrios and the other descendants of Hektor approached him after Neoptolemos had released them from Greece, he went to Troy and restored them to their ancestral kingdom.

[freaestro]

This is Francion.

[ovaruling]

Before we congratulate ourselves on how far we have come, consider that 1.5m shelter animals – including 670,000 dogs and 860,000 cats – are euthanised each year in the US. The number of stray dogs euthanised annually in the UK is far lower – 3,463 – but the RSCPA says investigations into animal cruelty cases increased 5% year on year in 2016, to 400 calls a day.

“Can I stick my dog in a car and take him to the vet and say: ‘I don’t want him any more, kill him,’ or take him to a city shelter and say: ‘I can’t keep him any more, I hope you can find a home for him, good luck’?” says Gary Francione, a professor at Rutgers Law School in New Jersey and an animal rights advocate. “If you can still do that, if you still have the right to do that, then they are still property.”

Crucially, our animals can’t tell us whether they are happy being pets. “There is an illusion now that pets have more voice than in the past … but it is maybe more that we are putting words into their mouth,” Pierce says, pointing to the abundance of pets on social media plastered with witty projections written by their “parents”. “Maybe we are humanising them in a way that actually makes them invisible.”

[myths-tournaments]

Awful Characters Round 1 Part 2 (4/8)

Propaganda under the cut!

NNOITRA GILGA

Pollrunner's note: the only propaganda I got was entirely in russian and I don't know russian so I tried my best w/ google translate. if the person who submitted would like to provide an actual translation then please do, otherwise I hope you enjoy my google translation

You can reduce the propaganda at your discretion, there is clearly too much here, but I feel very inspired))) A secondary antagonist for one arc, with a spoon design, one of those henchmen of the main villain who are supposed to be repulsive and contemptuous, can give a cool fight and then die and sink into oblivion. A typical combat-obsessed maniac whose sword weighs far more than his brain. It's not even a new concept within his own universe. At the same time, he is able to think, abstractly and often. Over the course of a dozen episodes and flashbacks, the outlook has grown from "I'm strong, so I'm going to kill everything I see" to "If I kill 1,000 weaklings, will I get stronger?" Canonically hated one of the most popular girls in the entire manga (and believe me, she is by no means as sweet and innocent as the audience thinks, she literally deliberately presses on the sore wounds in Nnoitora's pride, purposefully seeking him out), while being one of the most tolerant fighters. The truth is expressed in the form of "I don't care if it's a man, a woman, an old man, a child or an animal, I'll kill them all." Equal treatment? Think so. Is the enemy wounded after the previous fight? The ability to survive until the fight is part of the fighting skills, no discounts, no bias, no giveaways, he will fight everyone with full force. Philosopher. "Do not deceive yourselves—none of us will see redemption. We didn't have the right to forgiveness from the beginning." The only one who has questioned how one questionable stage of the main villain's plan worked, has tracked down the perpetrator of that stage and specifically dug into him to find out the complex psychological trick that was used. Moreover, such stunts are absolutely not in the style of Nnoitora's fighting, he was just interested. His relationship with the francion (a type of personal lackey) is also very interesting. And they are not at all based on "beating for the slightest disobedience", as one might think. For the three acts of "disobedience" shown, a physical blow was inflicted only when there were witnesses. Playing to the public? Their interactions have left so many questions, but we have so few answers. After all, his fración is also far from being as obedient and innocent as his fans try to make it out to be, there is definitely a double bottom hidden in the darkness. In general, the character cannot be called pleasant, by any means. But it's definitely interesting. In the vast majority of cases, the fendom plays the role of a background scarecrow, a scapegoat or a punching bag on a residual principle... Or they simply forget about it. Rare connoisseurs of this ambiguous personality sometimes create truly gems of fan art

Пропаганду можете сократить по своему усмотрению, тут ��вно лишнего навалено, но я чувствую очень большое воодушевление))) Второстепенный антагонист на одну арку, со стрëмным дизайном ложки, один из тех приспешников главного злодея, которые должны быть отталкивающими и презрительными, может быть дать крутой бой, а потом сдохнуть и кануть в забвение. Типичный помешанный на бое маньяк, у которого вес меча намного превышает вес мозга. Это даже не новый концепт в рамках его же вселенной. При этом умеет мыслить, причëм абстрактно и часто. За десяток серий и флешбек показал рост мировоззрения от "я сильный, поэтому буду убивать всë, что вижу" К "если я убью 1000 слабаков, разве стану сильнее?". Канонично ненавидел одну из самых популярных девушек всей манги (и поверьте, она отнюдь не так мила и невинна, как считает аудитория, она буквально специально давит на больные раны в гордости Ннойторы, целенаправленно разыскивая его), при этом один из самых толерантных бойцов. Правда выражается эта толерантность в виде "мне нет разницы мужчина, женщина, старик, ребëнок или животное, я убью всех". Равное отношение? Ну да. Противник ранен после предыдущей схватки? Умение дожить до боя является частью боевых навыков, никаких скидок, никакой предвзятости, никаких поддавков, он со всеми будет драться в полную силу. Философ. "Не обманывай себя - никому из нас не видать искупления. У нас с самого начала не было права на прощение". Единственный, кто задался вопросом о том, как сработал один сомнительный этап плана главного злодея, разыскал исполнителя этого этапа и конкретно докопался до него, чтобы узнать сложный психологический трюк, который был использован. Причëм такие трюки абсолютно не в стиле боя Ннойторы, ему просто было интересно. Его отношения с фрасьоном (типа личного лакея) тоже очень интересны. И вовсе не базируются на "избить за малейшее неповиновение", как можно было бы подумать. За три показанных акта "неповиновения, физический удар произведëн был лишь тогда, когда были свидетели. Игра на публику? Их взаимодействие оставило так много вопросов, но у нас так мало ответов. Ведь его фрасьон тоже далеко не столь послушен и невинен, как стараются видеть его фанаты, там определëнно есть сокрытое во тьме двойное дно. В целом персонажа нельзя назвать приятным, ни в коем разе. Но определëнно интересный. В фендоме в подавляющем большинстве случаев играет роль фонового пугала, козла отпущения или груши для битья по остаточному принципу… Или про него просто забывают. Редкие ценители этой неоднозначной личности иногда создают действительно жемчужины фанатского искусства

AEMOND TARGARYEN

I've seen twitter (and tumblr) users call every HotD character fans bad people (because obviously everyone who doesn't support the same side as them in the show is evil) but personally Aemond is my favorite little war criminal. He's murdered a child (his nephew(14yo)) because he stabbed his eye out when they were younger (very stable family), all of that kickstarted a full on war. He's also thought about murdering his brother to become king instead. He does have drip though (replacing his missing eye with a sapphire), and he's his mom's favorite child (aka the only one who ever has an idea what's happening). And we're not that far in the show yet but he also gets a hot witch girlfriend. (Also everyone in HotD is a bad person, just pick your favorite war criminal like the rest of us)

[amtraditional]

Aaron Francione

Philadelphia, PA, USA

[buddhistmusings]

Just picked up Francione and Charlton's "Animal Rights : The Abolitionist Approach." I had to put it down before I got through the intro.

I support ending the exploitation of animals, but in the first few pages, they seem to suggest that reform is not a valid approach. That increases in the size of the cages is not a victory. As though change on this front could possibly be achieved via any other method.

I don't think the solution is convincing every person to become vegan to abolish animal exploitation. The solution is expanding the welfare of animals in the agricultural industry, while ending subsidies, and engaging in the promotion of veganism and vegetarianism. We can make flesh products expensive, less common, and a less sustainable business model. This drastic reduction in production will help facilitate further legislation of the rights of animals.

The incremental approach is the only path forward in animal rights. Demanding of each and every person that they become vegan is not going to help. It will not convince most. Every victory, no matter how small, is a victory.

Go vegan if you can. Go vegetarian if you can. If you can't do either, focus on reduction. Advocate for whatever changes you can, knowing that any improvement is still an improvement.

[devoted1989]

Gary Lawrence Francione is an American academic and a pioneer of the abolitionist theory of animal rights.

Image found on Pinterest.

[mattydemise]

Veganism is a matter of justice. Justice is not something you "try" for January. Justice is not something you do on Monday. Justice is not something you practice before 6pm. Justice is something you owe others and that you do 24/7/365 because it's not about you. It's about the animals. It's abut their lives. It's about their rights.

Gary L. Francione.

[jeanetjeannepatin]

Mercredi 25 octobre 2023 à 19H, la Petite Boutique Fantasque continue les aventures d’Agathe tirées du Roman comique de Charles Sorel dans une émission appelée : Eteindre la concupiscence des hommes par charité. On y voit Agathe vieillissante et malade être aidée par le destin… Cette émission a été enregistrée et montée au studio de RadioRadioToulouse et diffusée en hertzien, Toulouse : 106.8 Mhz ou en streaming https://www.radioradiotoulouse.net/ et pour tout le reste du temps sur les podcasts de mixcloud.

Programmation musicale : 1) I may be too young (Suzy Quatro) 2) Les anges gardiens (Les vieilles pies)  3) Reality (vs_price) 4) La mare aux canards (Nour) 5) Either end of august (Bill Brufford) 6) Season’s song (Robert Plant) 7) Tchembé (Gwendoline Absalon) 8) Petit Castor (Yelo molo)

+ lecture d’un extrait de l'Histoire comique de Francion (1623) de Charles Sorel par Pascale Rémi

Pour ceux qui auraient piscine indienne, ou toute autre obligation, il y a une possibilité de rattrapage avec les podcasts de la PBF: https://www.mixcloud.com/RadioRadioToulouse/eteindre-la-concupiscence-des-hommes-par-charité-la-petite-boutique-fantasque/

Sus aux Philistins !

[myalgias]

ppl just finding out now that gary francione is a piece of shit? i gotta laugh. i guess no one cared when he refused to listen to disabled/mad vegans about the sanism/ableism of his term 'moral schizophrenia'. the guy has always given shitty vibes and now he's jumped on the anti-trans train. shocking (sarcasm).