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ganeshpnf · 2 months ago

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Its a really cool and detailed analysis! *My happiness after seeing a post about this duo XD*

I agree some parts but I would have to say they really made up off-screen, because it would be hilarious if they didn't. They look pretty cool in the cotg, Athena even helping Percy for her sake. And yeah restoring her cap when Annabeth and Sadie were fighting fogether. I am very mad at Rick for not adding it to the books, even though Annabeth wasn't the main after the boo. But I wish they at least implied it better.

Also I would still have to argue with the Minerva part, because its obvious that Minerva hates herself. She hates herself more than anyone hates her 😭 She is not right, dont get me wrong. But she is definitely not Athena. And tbf, Annabeth didn't know most about Roman/Greek thing until Aphrodite spoke about the issue.

And I think Annabeth must have seen her mother before ttc and even tlt(when she got her cap), my guess ofc because like girl literally yelled at her mother in front of the other gods lmao- And not to mention, got a mom look 😭 I think they met before lmao- My guess is when Annabeth was on the streets at the age of 7, she even stated her mother guided her and protected her until she met Luke and Thalia.

So yeah, in brief, we could have an amazing scene woth two of them talking, Annabeth speaking up her mind and Athena at least trying to apologize. Just a perfecf mother-daughter scene yk? But we were robbed- 😭

But hey, thats when fanfics exist ;)

Out of curiosity, I went ahead and compiled all the known canonical interactions between Annabeth and Athena, specifically focusing on them actually conversing or meeting in person.

(For those who are curious about the numbers but are scared off by the massive wall of text, from what I can tell Athena has directly interacted with her daughter somewhere between 4 to 8 times in her life.

Two of the " 8 " are hypothetical but not confirmed based on the existence of the Yankees cap and it's behavior before and after Heroes of Olympus. One moment I personally don't count as actually being Athena so much as Annabeth's inner voice, but is up for interpretation. And the last questionable moment is where Athena's voice does speak to her but Annabeth does not actually interact with her mom beyond hearing that.

So I would say the most solid number cannon number is probably 4. )

Possibly something happened pre-series when Annabeth first got her hat. We don't actually know how that went down. But if there's a pre series meeting, that's the most likely spot.

Nothing in TLT. Athena's presence is felt but that's because of how oriented Annabeth and her siblings are initially to Athena's presumed will

Nothing in SOM that I remember. She's following in the footsteps of her mother's favorite, but Athena herself doesn't really have a role.

They do get to meet in TTC. Athena says more or less that she's proud of Annabeth then turns around and suggests killing Thalia and Percy.

It is low key interesting to me that this is probably one of the high points in what we see of their relationship, but this announcement of Annabeth having done well is addressed to the crowd, not Annabeth herself.

Annabeth interrupts Athena to protest the first time she advocates for killing Percy, but Athena cuts her off still without speaking to her

The goddess Athena cleared her throat and sat forward. “I am proud of my daughter as well. But there is a security risk here with the other two.”

“Mother!” Annabeth said. “How can you—”

Athena cut her off with a calm but firm look.

The second time Annabeth protests is the only time Athena speaks to Annabeth directly, but the use of 'exasperated' here is interesting in setting the tone of that interaction:

“Two years for Kronos to deceive you,” Athena said. “Much can change in two years, my young hero.” “Mother!” Annabeth said, exasperated. “It is only the truth, child. It is bad strategy to keep the animal alive. Or the boy.”

Of course Percy also meets Athena here and that's about Annabeth if not with Annabeth- first Athena giving him the clue/inspiration to escape the Hoover Dam, and then Athena telling him more or less to stay away from her daughter.

When Annabeth interrupts the later conversation, Athena leaves. It does make sense in the context of 'she was literally just giving Percy the shovel talk' but it is mildly interesting that this in an opportunity where she could speak directly to her daughter- and maybe she did!- but all we see on screen is her walking away

Also the shift from Mother to Mom, which very likely is just the social context unless you want to read into that ellipsis

“Percy!” Annabeth said, running through the crowd. She stopped short when she saw who I was talking to. “Oh…Mom.” “I will leave you,” Athena said. “For now.”

They don't meet or talk in BOTL and aren't mentioned as having done so between that summer and the previous winter. Athena continues to have an important presence through her history with Daedelus and the other gods identifying Annabeth as her daughter, but doesn't actually appear.

TLO is a lot more significant not in terms of quantity of interactions, but in terms of impact. First, Athena sends a warning/strategic advice to both Percy and Annabeth via Hermes. Including more disapproval for Percy/Annabeth

"[Athena] wanted to come back herself, but Zeus was not going to let his number one strategist leave his side while we’re battling Typhon. And so naturally he sent me to talk to you.” ...

...“Please, Hermes,” Annabeth said. “You said my mother wanted to come. Did she give you any messages for us?”...

...“Bah,” Hermes said. “Your mother said to warn you that you are on your own. You must hold Manhattan without the help of the gods. As if I didn’t know that. Why they pay her to be the wisdom goddess, I’m not sure.”

“Anything else?” Annabeth asked.

“She said you should try plan twenty-three. She said you would know what that meant.”

Annabeth’s face paled. Obviously she knew what it meant, and she didn’t like it. “Go on.”

“Last thing.” Hermes looked at me. “She said to tell Percy: ‘Remember the rivers.’ And, um, something about staying away from her daughter.”

And this is of course where we get the single most positive interaction between the two of them in all of the series

Athena called, “Annabeth Chase, my own daughter.”

Annabeth squeezed my arm, then walked forward and knelt at her mother’s feet.

Athena smiled. “You, my daughter, have exceeded all expectations. You have used your wits, your strength, and your courage to defend this city, and our seat of power. It has come to our attention that Olympus is…well, trashed. The Titan lord did much damage that will have to be repaired. We could rebuild it by magic, of course, and make it just as it was. But the gods feel that the city could be improved. We will take this as an opportunity. And you, my daughter, will design these improvements.”

Annabeth looked up, stunned. “My…my lady?”

Athena smiled wryly. “You are an architect, are you not? You have studied the techniques of Daedalus himself. Who better to redesign Olympus and make it a monument that will last for another eon?”

“You mean…I can design whatever I want?”

“As your heart desires,” the goddess said. “Make us a city for the ages.”

“As long as you have plenty of statues of me,” Apollo added.

“And me,” Aphrodite agreed.

“Hey, and me!” Ares said. “Big statues with huge wicked swords and—”

“All right!” Athena interrupted. “She gets the point. Rise, my daughter, official architect of Olympus.”

We don't have much Annabeth in TLH or SON so no real opportunities for anything there. I did do a keyword search for both "mother" and "Athena" to make sure I didn't miss some reference to something that happened off screen, but I didn't see anything.

Mark of Athena... Well. I'm gonna put the cut here because obviously there's a lot to say from here on.

Right off the bat in chapter one, we take a nose dive from the high point of TLO. We see the specifics of the meeting that Annabeth is referring to later in the book, but I still feel like the first description is useful information:

Annabeth wished she could pray to her mother for guidance, but that wasn’t possible now. Not after last month, when she’d had that horrible encounter with her mom and gotten the worst present of her life.…

And we get hints again when Annabeth receives her prophecy from Ella. Again this should probably all be one singular bullet point since it's just one meeting, but I found the lead up to the reveal too interesting

“The Mark of Athena burns through Rome,” Ella continued, cupping her hands over her ears and raising her voice. “Twins snuff out the angel’s breath, Who holds the key to endless death. Giants’ bane stands gold and pale, Won through pain from a woven jail.”

The effect was like someone dropping a flash grenade on the table. Everyone stared at the harpy. No one spoke. Annabeth’s heart was pounding. The Mark of Athena…She resisted the urge to check her pocket, but she could feel the silver coin growing warmer—the cursed gift from her mother. Follow the Mark of Athena. Avenge me.

She tells Percy about it eventually, though not in moment by moment detail

A sense of dread settled over [Percy]. “Why? Have you seen Athena?”

She didn’t meet his eyes. “A few weeks ago,” she admitted. “It…it wasn’t good. She didn’t seem like herself. Maybe it’s the Greek/Roman schizophrenia that Nemesis described. I’m not sure. She said some hurtful things. She said I had failed her.”

“Failed her?” Percy wasn’t sure he’d heard her right. Annabeth was the perfect demigod child. She was everything a daughter of Athena should be. “How could you ever—?”

“I don’t know,” she said miserably. “On top of that, I’ve been having nightmares of my own. They don’t make as much sense as yours.”

Then we finally get the details of Annabeth's interaction with Minerva/Athena. And it is identified as being Minerva however...

Minerva is the way she is because she recognizes herself as a reduction/fragment of Athena. Like explicitly she talks about what the Romans have "done to her" in changing her from the Greek Athena to the Roman Minerva. She gets mad when Annabeth calls her Minerva even.

Minerva's anger and violence are rooted in her internal indenfication with her past as Athena and her hatred for what the Romans did to the Greeks specifically. Minerva and Athena are deeply intertwined.

We also still count Nico and Hazel & Thalia and Jason as being siblings despite the Greek/Roman divide.

I will give you the fact that Minerva doesn't recognize Annabeth here and her judgement is impacted. But IMO I don't think it's fair to 100% disconnect this conversation from Athena even if it is Minerva in this scene. And it is a doozy of a scene.

She had just passed Sweet on America, the candy shop where Percy’s mom used to work, and was thinking about going inside to buy some blue candy for old times’ sake, when she saw Athena studying the subway map on the wall.

“Mother!” Annabeth couldn’t believe it. She hadn’t seen her mom in months—not since Zeus had closed the gates of Olympus and forbidden all communication with demigods. Many times, Annabeth had tried to call on her mom anyway, pleading for guidance, sending up burnt offerings with every meal at camp. She’d had no response. Now here was Athena, dressed in jeans and hiking boots and a red flannel shirt, her dark hair cascading over her shoulders. She held a backpack and a walking stick like she was prepared for a long journey.

“I must return home,” Athena murmured, studying the map. “The way is complex. I wish Odysseus were here. He would understand.”

“Mom!” Annabeth said. “Athena!” The goddess turned. She seemed to look right through Annabeth with no recognition.

“That was my name,” the goddess said dreamily. “Before they sacked my city, took my identity, made me this.” She looked at her clothes in disgust. “I must return home.”

Annabeth stepped back in shock. “You’re…you’re Minerva?”

“Don’t call me that!” The goddess’s gray eyes flared with anger. “I used to carry a spear and a shield. I held victory in the palm of my hand. I was so much more than this.”

“Mom.” Annabeth’s voice trembled. “It’s me, Annabeth. Your daughter.”

“My daughter…” Athena repeated. “Yes, my children will avenge me. They must destroy the Romans. Horrible, dishonorable, copycat Romans. Hera argued that we must keep the two camps apart. I said, No, let them fight. Let my children destroy the usurpers.”

Annabeth’s heartbeat thumped in her ears. “You wanted that? But you’re wise. You understand warfare better than any—”

“Once!” the goddess said. “Replaced. Sacked. Looted like a trophy and carted off—away from my beloved homeland. I lost so much. I swore I would never forgive. Neither would my children.”

She focused more closely on Annabeth. “You are my daughter?”

“Yes.” The goddess fished something from the pocket of her shirt—an old-fashioned subway token—and pressed it into Annabeth’s hand. “Follow the Mark of Athena,” the goddess said. “Avenge me.”

Annabeth had looked at the coin. As she watched, it changed from a New York subway token to an ancient silver drachma, the kind used by Athenians. It showed an owl, Athena’s sacred animal, with an olive branch on one side and a Greek inscription on the other.

The Mark of Athena.

At the time, Annabeth had had no idea what it meant. She didn’t understand why her mom was acting like this. Minerva or not, she shouldn’t be so confused.

“Mom…” She tried to make her tone as reasonable as possible. “Percy is missing. I need your help.”

She had started to explain Hera’s plan for bringing the camps together to battle Gaea and the giants, but the goddess stamped her walking stick against the marble floor.

“Never!” she said. “Anyone who helps Rome must perish. If you would join them, you are no child of mine. You have already failed me.”

“Mother!”

“I care nothing about this Percy. If he has gone over to the Romans, let him perish. Kill him. Kill all the Romans. Find the Mark, follow it to its source. Witness how Rome has disgraced me, and pledge your vengeance.”

“Athena isn’t the goddess of revenge.” Annabeth’s nails bit into her palms. The silver coin seemed to grow warmer in her hand. “Percy is everything to me.”

“And revenge is everything to me,” the goddess snarled. “Which of us is wiser?”

“Something is wrong with you. What’s happened?”

“Rome happened!” the goddess said bitterly. “See what they have done, making a Roman of me. They wish me to be their goddess? Then let them taste their own evil. Kill them, child.”

“No!”

“Then you are nothing.” The goddess turned to the subway map. Her expression softened, becoming confused and unfocused. “If I could find the route…the way home, then perhaps—But, no. Avenge me or leave me. You are no child of mine.”

Annabeth’s eyes stung. She thought of a thousand horrible things she wanted to say, but she couldn’t. She had turned and fled.

She’d tried to throw away the silver coin, but it simply reappeared in her pocket, the way Riptide did for Percy. Unfortunately, Annabeth’s drachma had no magical powers—at least nothing useful. It only gave her nightmares, and no matter what she tried, she couldn’t get rid of it.

And to my point earlier, even if fans want to pin this interaction on just Minerva, Annabeth still clearly identifies it as being an interaction with her mother, even well after she knows about the Greek/Roman divide.

Since Annabeth’s argument with Athena, the cap had lost its magic. Annabeth wasn’t sure why, but she’d stubbornly brought it along on the quest. Every morning she would try it on, hoping it would work again. So far it had only served as a reminder of her mother’s wrath.

She then hears her mother's voice in the civil war fort. To be fair, this is not actually a conversation so much as her hearing her mother's voice, and it is implied by Aphrodite that this might be subconscious but I'm still counting it for the purpose of record keeping.

Gaea’s voice faded. On the far wall, in the center of the spider swarm, a red symbol blazed to life: the figure of an owl like the one on the silver drachma, staring straight at Annabeth. Then, just as in her nightmares, the Mark of Athena burned across the walls, incinerating the spiders until the room was empty except for the smell of sickly sweet ashes. Go, said a new voice—Annabeth’s mother. Avenge me. Follow the Mark.

We do get mention of a 'voice' when Annabeth is on the quest. I do not personally interpret it as being Athena, and Annabeth seems to dismiss that possibility after a moment, but since the possibility is raised and not conclusively answered, I am including it for completeness' sake

You’ve got your intelligence, a voice said. Annabeth wondered if Athena was speaking to her, but that was probably just wishful thinking.

Not getting a full quote here, but notably there's no sign of an interaction from Athena either when Annabeth tells Arachne that the spider-woman is better than Athena OR when Annabeth prays:

"But the Athena Parthenos was free. Please wake up, Annabeth begged the statue. Mother, help me.

I wasn't in any way expecting Athena to react to that prayer, and I know 'divine laws' is the normal explanation but I am genuinely interested in what makes this moment from Percy at the arch. Not sarcastically, I just wish we had a little bit clearer of an idea of how things worked.

Then we finally get to House of Hades, where Annabeth is of course in Tartarus. To the best of my knowledge, her only direct interaction with Athena is through one of the demigod 's prophetic dreams where Athena praises her and then gives her another task/warning.

In the darkness below stood Reyna, the praetor of New Rome. Her cloak was the color of blood fresh from a vein. Her gold armor glinted. She stared up, her face regal and distant, and spoke directly into Annabeth’s mind.

You have done well, Reyna said, but the voice was Athena’s. The rest of my journey must be on the wings of Rome

. The praetor’s dark eyes turned as gray as storm clouds.

I must stand here, Reyna told her. The Roman must bring me.

In terms of plot/timing this really does make sense as a very short/driven/focused conversation. Please do not take this as me saying they should have had a mother-daughter therapy session here.

But what makes the content of this dream stand out more is that as far as I know, it's the only time Athena ever acknowledges the Mark of Athena quest at all when talking to her daughter, and the closest they come to discussing Tartarus. Which they didn't.

BOO doesn't have anything written from Annabeth or Percy's point of view, reducing what we are able to know about Annabeth and Athena. They do fight together, just like the other members of the seven and their parents, but it's from Jason's point of view so we get a distant observation with no emotion or dialogue attached.

Out of the corner of his eye, Jason saw Annabeth fighting Enceladus. At her side stood a woman with long dark hair and golden armor over her white robes. The goddess thrust her spear at the giant, then brandished her shield with the fearsome bronzed visage of Medusa. Together, Athena and Annabeth drove Enceladus back into the nearest wall of metal scaffolding, which collapsed on top of him.

Afterwards, we get a description of Athena interacting with Hermes, who is apparently trying to ignore her, but nothing with Annabeth. They both participate in the conversation with Zeus, but don't speak or respond to one another.

Annabeth is not a focus in any of the books of TOA, so of course there are no interactions there.

She may or may not have mentioned something that happened off-screen in the Magnus Chase books, but I don't know since I haven't read them. I wouldn't bet on it.

Finally, as of the writing of this post, the last PJO book we have is Chalice of the Gods. Athena interacts directly with Percy on screen, but not Annabeth. It is very strongly suggested that Athena assists Percy for Annabeth's sake.

We do get a mention of Annabeth's hat working again (as Percy needs it for the plot) and then there is a mention of it now causing discomfort to the user and Athena doing it on purpose to remind her child that power has a price.

We know for a fact that it did NOT work this way when Percy used it in either TLT or TTC. I would put my money on Rick just...forgetting that

but from an in universe context we might take it to imply Athena added a price to the use of the gift after Heroes of Olympus and somehow explained her reasoning to Annabeth. (I will leave my emotions about this scene for a different post.)

“Thanks for the loan of the Yankees cap, by the way,” I said. “You never told me it makes you uncomfortable when you wear it.”

She gave me a one-shoulder shrug. “All power has a price. Even being invisible. My mom taught me that a long time ago.” She sounded wistful, maybe a little sad, but not resentful.

She had apparently accepted the way the world worked according to Athena, even if she didn’t always agree, even if it sometimes didn’t make any more sense than Annabeth’s math homework did to me.

I have seen some people use all the above points from COG to suggest that Athena and Annabeth fully reconciled off screen. I personally hate that, but I don't think it's an unfair reading. It is a possibility. I wouldn't say the text confirms that definitively though.

#annabeth chase #athena #athena pjo #GIMME MORE OF THEM RICK #I NEED MORE MOTHER DAUGHTER #I LOVE THEM #pjo #hoo #cotg

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