#fodlan too toxic :-(

[violasgamingpalace]

I love three hopes??? Like legitimately love it?? No clue why there's so much hate for this game and I'm a bit sad because it means we probably won't get a third game to really cap off fodlan.

The three main routes all get to be different, and unique and do things that are different from the first game! Edelgard does away with TWSitD, Dimitri gets to be a king instead of a boar, and Claude gets to be a real character instead of following Silver Snow! Rhea doesn't have to spend 3/4 of the routes in girlboss jail half the time!

Every single character feels unique with the personal skills! We get to see sooo many minor characters! Characters have dialogues for fighting (and even killing) friends! Recruitments is based on plot and character motives instead of player will!

The house lords all team up! We get to fight the second soul in us! There's so many more gay pairings and characters coming out in canon!

I'm one of the rare fire emblem fans that really liked the gameplay of three houses but from a character and plot perspective three hopes just works so much better that I can't really see wanting to go back for replays

[fantasyinvader]

Saying history doesn't matter cause it isn't canon to CF is like saying Rhea burning down Firdhiad doesn't matter cause it isn't canon to AM/VW/SS

It touches upon a deeper issue within the fandom, one I feel is pretty central to the discourse as well as the failure of the game's writing. Fodlan was designed with the intent that it not just be a backdrop to the game's story, it was meant to be a world that the player would immerse themselves in. It is a world that, by the creator's own admission, was built to support Silver Snow's story, a story where the Church are the good guys while Edelgard is a villainous lord who betrays the player. So as the player is going around exploring around the monastery or doing supports, they're also encountering information that not only works towards revealing that the Church aren't the villains but also begins filling Edelgard's narrative with holes. The game even uses it's symbolism to push that the routes where Edelgard is an antagonist to be based around knowledge, while her route is based around player ignorance.

It's like a combination of a jigsaw puzzle and a magic eye, it's up to the player to put the pieces together and see the hidden picture that is Fodlan. This requires the player to engage with Fodlan on more than a surface level, and that's where the problem lies.

People like the surface level of Fodlan. They like that the Church is suspect early on and reject the idea that it's all a red herring. They like the idea of Edelgard liberating the people, even if she has to work with other villains to do so. They want Edelgard to open up to the player, learn to trust people, and not become a villain due to the player's influence while Claude can be the lying, manipulative bastard rather than the other way around. And Claude should definitely kill Rhea too. Dimitri has to be the conservative zealot of a lord while Edelgard is the progressive one whose ideals are the best for mankind... just not the ideals she actually talks about.

That is not the game they want, so they do the best they can to ignore that stuff. To ignore the actual writing of the game, instead making it what they want it to be. I have seen the following:

The other routes lie to the player, Edelgard is the one who tells them the truth.

It's up to the player to decide who is right and who is wrong, therefore Edelgard is the hero if I want her to be.

The identity of the Flame Emperor should have changed based on which House you picked rather than always being Edelgard.

They don't like hearing about other routes and the stuff revealed in them.

The game's director and writers don't actually understand their own story, and they only said those things to appease Dimitri and Rhea-stans.

What we say is the actual intent of the game and what they say the intent was can be ignored as death of the author.

People who don't actually play the game and just read the script understand it better than the people who play (I think this means to ignore the acting and just look at the words being said).

I mean, ffs, there's the teacher theory that came about when people realized it disproved the claim that Edelgard is only after the Church and the author said it went against HIS reading of her character. And this was the same guy who created the toxic masculinity take against Dimitri's arc because he didn't want it to be about his mental illness. It was even explained to him that his reasoning was based on a misunderstanding about Japanese culture, and he instead said the onus was on other to prove it to HIM in a way HE would accept.

Or there was that one game journalist who was upset that the game didn't make a bigger deal about him ending the game in a lesbian relationship with Edelgard.

I mean, I talk a good bit about how the translation tones down Edelgard's ending and bashes the Church, but even then there's still a lot about the ending that should point to the actual truth about the game. If Edelgard is about freedom and empowering the commoners, why is Hubert spying on them while putting down rebellions from the shadows? Why is it that no commoner gets promoted under her, some like Alois only have their merit recognized in their endings in other routes, while some endings reveal nobles can still simply hand down their titles to their kid? Why is it that Edelgard restores the Church under her control? Or better yet, why is that Edelgard has no idea what form her reforms will take and will only ponder as such after she's won the war and assumed power over all of Fodlan? Why are we still ignoring that Edelgard lies constantly? Why is her ending title the Flame Emperor and is referred to as a hegemon in yours? Why does Hubert reveal her father was an Agarthan puppet in contrast to Edelgard's claim that he was one to the nobility?

Even from the beginning people were pointing out how the lore of all routes fit better to disprove Edelgard's narrative rather than support it. We were even pointing out the system of inheritance isn't set in stone, with each noble house seemingly doing their own thing years before Hopes came and Sylvain explained that while there is supposed to be a Crest system, the nobility doesn't actually follow it.

As I've said before, people want to believe that they are good and that they do the right thing. So when Houses is piling on the evidence that they did a very bad thing but never (or rarely) outright accuses them of doing so (via unrecruited units), it's just easier to ignore that stuff and focus on the stuff that is instead deemed important. Like Edelgard being a cute girl. Hell, the way they act Edelgard comes off as a villain first and foremost and it's only by joining this villain that you see the cute girl aspect of her.

[randomnameless]

So considering how feudal nations work and if one is willing to focus on the lesser nobles, actual people (so not just showing Edelgard loyalists but those who dislike her too) and if Ludwig manage to escape capture, it would be reasonable to have a civil war happen?

I think it can since Hubert wouldn't just be able to get the network system of his father after murdering him, and the nobles of Adrestia are the worst in terms of opposition to social mobility and primitive form of gender equality, so the lack of civil war is stupid.

I base my thoughts on how France (I'm French too) had the Vendée rebellion and subsequent massacre and how devotion to the Church fueled support to the Spanish nationalists.

Adrestia is somehow the least interesting nation because of how it lack any of the noticeable internal strife shown, and Hubert being so effective at killing dissidents despite being only 20 (before the war) and having been at odd with many of the Seven who would actually have networks on their own is really Mary-sue ish.

I was a Edelstan at first (though I don't think too extreme) , but the more I see things, the more CF, SB and Edie annoy me (though the toxic fans are key in me stopping from preferring Edie).

Ooh!

Cher compatriote,

Thing is, Fodlan has been shown to be... not so feudal at all, especially the Empire.

I mean, Ludwig is jailed by word of the newest Emperor, when Ludwig is the PM and Edel was only the Imperial Princess at that time.

If we assume PM is just a big title (like the Fraldarius being Dukes) and in a feudal setting, Ludwig would have had a lot of lesser Houses and feudal Lords under his authority - the Emperor jails him? I can't see his bannermen - especially since this imprisonment isn't in reaction to anything he did (recently?) - just stand still and continue with their lives - how come no one reacts "wrongly" when he is jailed, in his territory, or the people affiliated to his name (maybe cousins, cadet branches, or what not)?

FWIW, Ludwig managed to escape and sort of mount a small army of men in SB... But that's nowhere what I would expect from the former PM - when we are told he was the one running things at the end of Ionius' rule - to have/raise, the number 1 of the country drops to a nobody by the heir of the puppet ruler, and apparently, the only ones number 1 can have to help him is 15 guys ?

I mean, Ferdie can have his Aegir personal battalion when he ends his paralogue (i know, it's a gameplay mechanic!) - can't we imagine the Aegir Astral Knights would have been something else than 10 dudes following Ferdie in gameplay, and be instead an entire battalion Ludwig could have used to defend himself, or at least run away with? Or imagine those knights tried to locate and liberate him from his prison in Enbarr?

Adrestia is so not developed that, as you say, it ends up being the most boring place of the three (even if I'll argue on this point : both Adrestia and Leicester are completely empty and without interest, but at least, Adrestia had some history landmarks to imagine things, when the Alliance has... Gloucester and his sheep, I guess?) - but at the same time, it could have been much more : Adrestian Emperors claim to descend from Jesus... but there's an Archbishop around (who is actually Jesus and not their ancestor (or is she?), but that's a secret!) so, to everyone who is supposed to buy the official story... Why should the CoS be administred/ruled by a random archbishop, when Jesus' direct line is still alive and kicking? Why should the Emperors share Fodlan - that was liberated by Seiros herself from corrupted people in the North ! - with the descendants of those corrupted people in the North?

The game instead gives us MAGA "Make Adrestia Great Again" with a resentment for the CoS that isn't explained (in Nopes, it's suggested the Emperor who disbanded the Southern church already was pissed with the Central Church!) and we can only guess it's either about Faerghus existing or something else...

I confess my only interest in Adrestia stems from the country being seemingly, during the WoH and post WoH the country were people are happy and peaceful etc "country of a blue lord", and then, 10 years after the end of the War of Heroes, instead of having some "and Renais was rebuilt and Ephraim became the new King of Restauration and helped everyone" we have "and then Lycaon dies mysteriously and the political situation is so "stable" that his successor duels for her throne", complete with a novel having in the background "and Adrestia still didn't leave the Roman Ludi and had northerners being torn apart by beasts as a form of entertainment"* which is, uh, very very very far removed from Marth'n'Tiki finishing their adventures and returning home.

As you pointed out, Adrestia, for what is developed in-game or mentioned about the place, is incredibly bleak and involves child prostitution, heavy class divide and an extreme misoginy in the current times... when it was created/overlooked, at least in the beginning, by Rhea herself ! When Rhea's current home is a rather peaceful place, Adrestia by comparison is a chamber pot, so what the frick happened there? 1000 years are 1000 years, but damn.

We don't have any intel about it - only mentions here'n'there that Hubert and Supreme Leader (but mostly Hubert because he can be criticised in game having a very... biased view of events and refusing to reconsider, but in the end, Adrestia... cannot be developed or have a civil war, because Adrestia isn't the focus of the story - from what we have, we already know it's a bleak place before and after Edel's coronation so... Her goal is to bring reforms to the world, but it's fitting enough that she doesn't deal with her own turf before bringing "reforms" to the rest of Fodlan.

There's also the very doylist reason of Edel having to be marketable, so in Houses, we cannot have people rebel on-screen for what happens in the Empire, else the Emperor... will not sell. Hell, Nopes had to have her brainwashed to have people react to Agarthans killing her randoms right and left, while the Nobles aren't doing a thing - always hammering the fact that "she's brainwashed so it's not her doing this or condoning this by not moving her army to protect her people it's Thales's fault".

Hubert being hyper-competent is an assumed trait at this point lol, unless he really really works with the Agarthans who lend him their tech and spy reports and whatnot. FE isn't a "realistic" as, say, ASOIAF, but without Hubert, Adrestia doesn't function and Edel's plans don't work so Hubert is both a McGuffin plot device (apparently he can pinpoint shambala because Thales fire nukes? Without access to any satellite?) and the character we all love.

Given how Supreme Leader planned her coup coronation and subsequent attack on GM - especially since Leopold already was in her pocket during the mock battle - I'm pretty sure Hubert, or Leopold's army or hell, some of her "allies" already envisaged this, and had either Aegir's "close allies" Hubert'd or monitored.

Or worse, imagine a scenario where Aegir runs to his friend Varley to explain him what happened, how the Emperor sent an army against him to usurp the throne and how they must warn everyone and Leopold to raise the army against her... Only to have Varley reveal he is now the Bishop of the Southern Church, and Leopold sided with her since the beginning...

I know it's not comparable, but Seteth (or some nuns?) mentions how he hasn't heard a thing about the faithful in the Empire... so either they were killed because they were practicionners of the Seiros faith, or because they rebelled/protested against the war and were, uh, disposed of (tfw the games never care about telling us who were the humans used to create the various imperial demonic beasts we see).

FWIW, I have a plotbunny idea where someone pretending to be Hresvelg bastard - with a crest of Seiros - wants to ask for Nopes!Rhea's help to support his claim to the throne, since Supreme Leader declared her war against the Church, he can put an end to it if he becomes Emperor, right? The CoS is torn between accepting "it would create at least some instability in the Empire, so the Kingdom could breathe a bit and maybe use this opportunity to finally fend them off if the Emperor calls back her troops in Enbarr" and "the CoS doesn't meddle in the affairs of humans like succession issues and only does so if it's to prevent a war but here you want us to create a civil war??"

*it's a novel so historical accuracy isn't that high, and yet, even if it's a porn book, why adding this detail in the background - just like people listening to music - I doubt it was written by a Faerghian writter so what, was this detail "northmen were slaughtered by beasts in the background and it was very funny lol" added just as a background thing, like fish being served as a meal ("historical" detail that might have been true!) or...?

[flower-of-knighthood]

With the whole "Sothis/Nabateans are colonizers" take, I know Ladlestans like to spew that to justify their Supreme Leader's desire to annihilate them, but I can't help but think that it reveals a rather anti-immigrant/xenophobic sentiment that they share.

The fact that they think Sothis, who crashed landed into Fodlan and it was not in her control and it was just Sothis, not Sothis and her children; her children were born in Fodlan; is a colonizer and her sharing her culture with people is assimilation makes me feel that they probably think the same thing about immigrants migrating to their country and sharing their culture with others. Maybe it's rubbernecking/looking too much into this but I can't help but think that this reveals some rather unsettling sentiments.

I think the reasoning behind the whole Sothis and the Nabateans are colonisers theory is that for some reason likely because Edelgard and Nemesis share similar ideals, Edelgard Apologists try to find ways to justify Nemesis as well, and opt for the Nabateans deserved to get massacred approach, by using colonialism as an excuse.

It is one of several reasons why I am convinced a large portion of Edelgard Apologists come from America, just based on the incredibly toxic view of immigrants, which is a staple of the right wing in the United States. I actually wouldn't be surprised if they were republican voters as well.

I shouldn't have to say this, but it is absolutely disgusting to look at a genocide and say that the victims deserved it, even if it is a fictional one.

It doesn't bode well for the morality of those who spread such garbage, because just as power tends to reveal the true character of people, anonymity tends to do the same because no one will know that it is you saying those things, meaning that people are more likely to reveal their true self.

[ncfan-1]

Today in writing...

Wrote 3.5k for Chapter Six of An Arrow Piercing the Heart’s Eye, finishing the chapter at 11.5k. Writing about all the background nasty -isms that, on top of the declining Crest system, really turn Fodlan toxic has been such fun.

Now, Lord Rodrigue grimaced. To Flayn’s admittedly jaundiced eye, he seemed genuinely apologetic—but that was not really enough. “It is regrettable,” he admitted. “Were I free to do so, and were I risking nothing but my own life, I would ride out myself. But none of us are so free to risk our own lives, or others’. This next push will be critical. As it stands, I do not know if we have the men to take Fort Merceus and hold it, and secure our staging point to breach Enbarr’s gates. If we thin our forces searching for missing soldiers, it could be the end of everything we’ve worked for. It makes no sense for the emperor to kill either of them. We have no choice but to trust in that.”

At least he had not dismissed them as deserters or defectors. But that wasn’t good enough. Flayn stared at Lord Rodrigue, her lips mashed together so tightly that she could feel them going numb. She willed herself to ferret out any sign of weakening in his resolve, but there was none. Was this how it was to be, then, her stealing out of the monastery alone and on foot, completely unsupported by any of her faithless fellow-soldiers?

“Nevertheless…”

For the first time since Flayn had entered the room, Melusine had spoken. As usual, her soft, even voice carried a hint of rust, as if it had been days since she had last spoken, but while she was so quiet that Flayn did indeed have to strain to hear her, the moment she spoke, all eyes were on her. This, too, was typical. Melusine blinked, pausing in the face of such sudden, intense scrutiny, before going on, “Nevertheless, it is true that if they can be found without having to commit our forces to foraying more than a few miles into Imperial territory, they must be recovered.”

[starswake--archived]

me: Alright! Time to finally delve into that 90 minute long video essay about Dimitri that I’ve saved for several months! What could possibly go wrong?

brain: YOU WILL REPLAY BLUE LIONS AGAIN.

[iturbide]

Oh I don't doubt edelgard believes her cause is just. The thing with her is it doesnt stop with her reforms and her toppling of the church. Thats how we know her goal is conquest.

In 3 hopes she had her reforms made WHILE rhea was in power. And Even with Rhea dead and the central church dissolved she doesnt stop her war. At this point it is no longer about removing the church to make way for reforms. Because she accomplished both of those things and she's still not done.

Why isn't she done? Because thats not her ultimate goal. She wants all of fodlan under her control. Funnily enough, Claude says it too. His reason for killing rhea was because he foolishly believed that would remove edelgards reason for war. ( it doesn't).

He also said that if she doesn't stop her war, then that means her war is just blatant aggression. In their supports he calls it Conquest and edelgard doesn't deny it, she knows what this is ( shes much more honest about it in 3 hopes) and she actually tells him she wants the kingdom gone, not just the church.

villains don't need to be like "tee hee mass murder , war , conquest! Yay!" realistic villains are those who truly believe in their cause and theyll say this is for the good of all. what makes them a villain is how they will do absolutely anything to achieve their aims no matter how much blood is spilled and how much suffering it causes. No "sacrifice" is too great for Emperor Edelgard von Hresvelg.

this is how they justify conquest irl no? Western imperalism 101. We say It's for a just cause. We say Its for their own good. We say our way is the superior way and they will see that (or die) . Truth is we can make up any reason for it , the end is the same and they still hate us for it. And i can't say I blame them for feeling that way lol

I was never trying to refute that Edelgard is an imperialist. She's absolutely an imperialist. There's really no getting around that. But I'm pretty alarmed by this take, because it discounts a lot of things about her and her character in favor of a read that her goals are motivated solely by selfishness.

And this is coming from someone who has an entire tag devoted to Edelgard criticism.

It bears repeating out the gate: I haven't played Three Hopes yet. I don't imagine I will for a while yet, and news on Edelgard's route has been sparse coming to my inbox, so I'm not able to speak on Scarlet Blaze in any real capacity (not that I take it as any sort of canon, myself, though that's neither here nor there). But I can speak on Three Houses, since I have played through three of the four routes in their entirety, including Edelgard's -- Verdant Wind, Silver Snow, and Crimson Flower are complete; I've stalled halfway through Azure Moon. And in the case of Three Houses, while Edelgard is definitely chasing an image of the past now lost in the form of a Fodlan united under the Imperial banner, I don't think it's fair to say that she's only after that.

The fact is, she's not wrong that the Crest System is bad and needs to be reformed. She lays the blame on the wrong target, through a combination of misinformation and only partial understanding of the larger situation (likely for a number of reasons, including the unavoidable evolution of House Hresvelg's "true" history of Fodlan passed to its heirs, potentially influence from the Agarthans in manipulating information for their own purposes), but she's not wrong about the fact that the system is toxic and something needs to be done. And that system doesn't exist only in the Empire: its influence extends throughout all of Fodlan. So she sets her sights on tearing it out wherever it's taken root.

From a character and narrative standpoint, it does actually make sense that she'd target the Church of Seiros: the faith of the land gave rise to the System, even if Seiros herself had no hand in it, and so the only way to change the system is to raze the faith of the land and bring about something new. And because the Church has footholds in the Kingdom and Leicester -- both of which also suffer from a system that overvalues Crests -- she takes her campaign across those borders. Yes, she also believes that the Church was responsible for breaking up the Empire into the Kingdom and later the Alliance, thinking that it was a means of creating artificial divisions between people to keep them in conflict and unable to turn on the Church and its inhuman arbiters -- but ultimately her goal was to free all of Fodlan from the Crest System, rather than only Adrestia.

I don't say any of this to discount that she does horrible things. Because she does. There's a reason I will never play Crimson Flower again. But to flatly vilify her rather than acknowledging her as a complex character with justifiable goals is something I can't accept. Making the situation out to be a black-and-white, good-and-evil dichotomy flattens what makes Edelgard interesting and compelling as a character in favor of presenting her as Lady Walhart but with enough sense to not broadcast her intentions. And that's not fair to her, because there's a lot more to her, her situation, and her character overall than what your message implies.

[kynimdraws]

“he will ally with whomever will keep Leicester safe and stable.” But edelgard’s goal is to make fodlan a single empire again. That’s why she doesn’t like faerghus or leicester. There’s really no guarantee she won’t go back for leicester. And what’s so wrong with cyril? Hopes shows they really care about each other and she constantly tells him she doesn’t want him on the battlefield, worries when he gets hurt, and brings him along in her hopes paralogue. It’s in character for him to reciprocate because they’re written like a family. I thought that was really sweet.

IDK if you are the same anon as before who accused me of being toxic...the tone of this ask is too different? But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

My answer to your asks are a bit long so it will be under the cut

Claude is aware of Edelgard being a conquerer too! He mentions often how the alliance is for the benefit for Leicester temporarily. Specfically in GW, Claude does some things to undermine her while still outwardly helping her...the most infamous example being the Aillel fight of Chapter 9. I highly recommend you read this thread for context bc some people got so upset for no reason about the arc...but you can see that he isn't just blindly following Edelgard. He sees that the temporary focus away from Leicester from Adrestria will benefit him at that moment. Later on in GW, he also helps out Edelgard when she asks for it (Chapter 14) only because this means she will be in her debt and Claude could potentially use that as leverage. And even in the post-chapter dialogue, Claude knows this alliance is only there due to their mutual dislike of the Central Church and nothing more. Edelgard even admits to that as well! While 3Hopes ends on a vague note, I still feel like worse comes to worse, Claude will use his Almyran connections to remain neutral and keep Leicester afloat...I made a whole hc thread about it here if you are interested lol

As for Cyril...Rhea only cares about him in the one AG paralogue tbh? I also believe that Rhea acts nice in 3Hopes way more than she does in White Clouds of 3Houses (where she demonstrably punishes/executes people if they go against her Church doctrines like the Western Church sect, keeps foreigners under the Abyss because of the centuries of xenophobia she allowed in Fodlan caused the "necessity" if this underground ghetto) because the consequences of her inactions in the past are coming back to bite her ass. And seeing this, she is trying to make amends way too late by being nice to the current generation Church folk. Note that I say "generation" because she has lived for a long time, and probably was slowly reforming her ways but it was too gradual for the likes of Edelgard and others.

Maybe it's because the game limits both as NPCs but...Cyril and Rhea's interactions feel extremely disjointed. So the kindness that she shows in that one paralogue feel very performative imo. Cyril comes off not as his own character, but as an extension of Rhea and her character. Cyril's whole story in 3Houses about how he was rescued by Rhea is all fine and dandy sounding until you realize Rhea never encouraged him to be educated, and kept him as servant while just praising him for his loyalty alone. That does not come off as motherly, just condescending. And 3Hopes banks on you knowing this story and never does anything to help him other than be Rhea's example of "see he's a non-Fodlaner treated ok by the pope so she must be good all the time!" Again, each mention of Cyril with Rhea always puts Rhea first over the poor kid who was enslaved and continues to be an uneducated servant :/

[dmicld]

how obnoxious is this? be honest. notes under the cut jddgsjsjdh

ride or die: LITERALLY we all already knew there’s nothing to add I just love them <3333 wish I could give them every single color and ten extra lines connecting them.

OTP: all i really have for this is to say that in general i tend to prefer f/f ships and i think that shows here. dmcl are more of an exception than a rule in that regard. there are a few pairings that could conceivably go here or really really like you a lot but i was trying to be discerning for the sake of creating an actual hierarchy.

really really like you a lot: <3 hmmm.... dmvn and dmfx are complicated because i like them both a lot it just varies how much. i always really like dmvn but usually not enough to feel compelled to write about them/seek them out unless its a v specific flavor. dmfx feels like the worlds most ship but they can be. a lot sometimes and putting them through the mortifying ordeal of learning to be close again is sometimes too much for me fdhsjfksd. again, they’re a lot, but i love them. favorite in house bl pairing by far. other than that i guess merceleth is kind of unique as it’s the only byleth/student pairing i ‘get’ as like it’s own thing. but i also believe in setleth/lettuce family rights so i usually tend toward that direction fhdsjkfs.

see the appeal but you do nothing for me personally: i like you IN THEORY but the actual emotions you bring me are essentially zero. i do enjoy fan art etc that gets made for these pairings, but i typically won’t seek out content fic etc.

platonic: i prefer the lord/byleth ships platonically tbh. dimitri has a really good s support scene (claude’s is so funny? like i'll be seeing you later i guess?). some of the scenes in cf make me uncomfortable regarding el/byleth so that’s kind of my issue there. i’ve seen cute art for all of them though which i support <3 i prefer claude an hilda as the worlds most besties but i understand ppl who like them together as well.

okay so i actually have no feelings...: this is the sly/vix category bc idk what to do with them fdhsfjksdfkjs. i see you guys so much i wish i liked you but there’s just nothing!!! i don’t even dislike like it either. anyways i still come across it a lot esp as a background ship and im always like okay you’re fine you can stay but unfortunately im not really invested for your sake :( also as an aside felix kind of reads to me as like. in love with dimitri on every route so there’s that too i guess hdfjksdjfsd. that being said i think this ship is a W for women for taking two of fodlan’s biggest misogynists off the market and into each other’s arms.

don’t really like: not a fan of lorenz/marianne tbh and enough that i felt the need to say it. that’s hilda’s girlfriend </3

good situationally: BUT CAN BE SO BAD. like so so bad it’s almost not worth it to try fhdsjkfs. dmdue especially people can be freaks about. which is unfortunate. bc again it can be so good.

i don’t want to see you together but i want to see you get divorced: would love for any of these couples to have an unhinged toxic relationship and then have the messiest break up ever. i think it would be so funny. no actual thoughts here just me laughing.

NOTP: i hate these couples and i don’t really even want to talk about it because i think i’ll start getting mean fhdsjfskd. cl/rz i dislike on principle and ed/el/cl/de is a combination of that and how it often gets... portrayed.. in fan works/spaces. either way i do not like them fdhsfjkdsf.

honorable mentions that didn’t make the chart: dimi/gard ???? just baffles me bc dimitri literally thinks of her as his sister but also idk it’s boring on top of that. thinking of their relationship through the lens of family/el’s connection to dimitri’s romanticized vision of the past is more interesting. i don’t like it generally but really i just need to emphasize that it’s boring on top of that. and then the other one would be ferdinand/lorenz which i don’t ‘go here’ for but i read it done REALLY well in a fic once. so i like them very much in the context of that fic’s canon/world.

[lochnessies]

i’ve never talked about this before but i have a love-hate relationship with golden route aus... like i don’t have a problem with the idea of a route where everybody gets a happy ending, it’s rather sweet. it’s just the way people go about making them. every single time i see a golden route au it goes along the lines of ‘the three lords team up and kill rhea and dimitri leaves the throne bc he’s mentally ill, claude leaves for almyra, and edelgard gets fodlan #slayqueen’ which is a really bad take

not to mention, they typically throw everybody’s characterizations under the fucking bus. rhea is portrayed as this villainous demigod instead of a genocide victim trying to protect her family, dimitri is shown as this dumb guy who’s too mentally ill to properly function, claude is just the brown friend™, and edelgard is ironically portrayed to be some sort of divine savior. not to mention byleth, who’s already a shit character, becomes even more of a doormat.

and i think the ooc nature of all these aus comes from the fact that, based off of everybody’s current characterizations, there’s absolutely no way you could get a golden route out of it. dimitri is too adverse to civilian casualties, claude doesn’t like resorting to violence, rhea is too scared to tell the truth of the past for fear of a repeat of it, and edelgard is too damn stubborn to consider any alternative that doesn’t end with imperial control.

the closest we get in game to a golden route is azure moon. dimitri creates a kingdom with civilian participation, claude is still alive and is 100% down for international relations (even telling dimitri they’ll meet again in a friendly conversation), and rhea gets to take a break and get some well earned retirement. and edelgard.... well... she was given a chance and she made her decision. dimitri gave her the dagger to ‘carve a path to the future she wished for’ and she used it to try and kill him (or you can even read it as her choosing her death bc she didn’t want to live with defeat).

and after looking at azure moon, which is the closest to everybody getting personal peace, it seems the outlier figure is, well, edelgard. look, i love el to death but that girl is extremely stubborn you might as well be talking to a brick wall (scratch that a brick wall might listen better) and this is a trait i do like about her. can’t say she doesn’t stand for her convictions even if you agree with her or not.

it’s very clear that the empire and twsitd’s shitty influence has made her completely against any sort of meaningful compromise which we see time and time again in game. and i honestly believe that if there is any chance for a 100% golden end she would need to have been taken from the empire at a very early age before their toxic mindset could affect her. so yeah, she’s a product of her environment, just like everybody else in the game, and if you want a golden route that’s not ooc someone is going to need to have ionius hand over the custody papers effective immediately. i personally vote rhea so she can start to pull away from her dead family to a present one and el gets a new parent and a bunch of kids her age to form connections to and everybody lives happily ever after

[somepinkthing]

I know dimitri went through the most drastic change during the timeskip, but I feel like claude went through a pretty significant one too. I’m told the japanese voice acting makes it more stark and I agree, but also just in general. And I think, in part, that’s got a lot to do with the alliance and how leading it has affected him

Claude pre-timeskip has a lot of the same ideas he’ll have five years later, but absolutely no plan to make them happen. He knows he wants open borders, an end to xenophobia, to tackle ignorance with facts, and to allow people everywhere more social freedoms. He's enamored with the idea of choice, with the vision of people living together as a community without worrying about their birth status, with busting open fodlan's insular bubble and giving people options in life.... but he’s not lying to you when he says he doesn't really know where to begin. His initial plan was to find the magic goddess sword in the hopes that it’d uh??? Teenage claude is a mass of ideals with no solid plan to get what he wants. He sees what’s wrong with the current system and arguably considers the most perspectives, but unlike his peers he has no idea what he should do about it. Mostly, he spends the school year rummaging for information and asking a million questions

The claude we meet five years later? He’s much more confident in his goals and considerate of the logistics of achieving them. Claude’s still focused on challenging social norms and still determined to tackle the ignorance that's preventing that change. By in large, he even managed to stay that same idealist who believed people just need to be provided a chance. However, he also now understands the importance of tempering his idealism so that freedom doesn’t become a free-for-all. Pre-timeskip claude talked about what he wanted to see change in fodlan, but not really what would be taking its place. Five years of leading the alliance has taught him that just getting rid of what’s wrong isn’t gonna cut it.

Because honestly? What is the leicester alliance if not a melting pot of good ideas and meh execution? Freedom from oppressive autocracy, voting on decisions, a community of different territories coming together and supporting one another — that's what the alliance wanted to be when it broke away from faerghus. The result? A bunch of nobles watching out for themselves and endlessly squabbling without a shared goal in sight. Yes, the strict social class systems we see in the kingdom and the empire seem much more lax in the alliance. Yes, opportunities are a bit more abundant. Yes, the church has very little political sway in the alliance. So there are things they got right. But greed mixed with the toxic remains of traditionalism that weren't properly chased out plagues the alliance and the benefits of breaking out are probably not felt by all equally. The extra freedom afforded to the alliance nobles only made this issue worse. After five years of barely keeping the alliance territories from descending into all out war over something as stupid as greed, claude now understands this. It's why he needs byleth and lorenz. He admired them before but now he needs them.

TL;DR claude spent five years wrestling civil war away from the hands of various greedy, rich nobles and came out the other side knowing that these assholes were gonna need some ground rules and a keeper if he didn't want to risk his ideals turning this country into a buffet for the rich and powerful. Promoting social freedoms and ending isolationism are very big and very good ideas... if they are throughly executed

[fantasyinvader]

Thinking some more on how Edelgard was going to keep silent about TWSITD if she lost in the Japanese text. It's clear the altered text is an attempt to make her look slightly better, like her saying Claude's ideals aren't too different from Edelgard's own (while scrubbing the direct reference to the Imperial army invading other nations post=war), but even then it's not too much of a hint. She makes it sound like she's the only thing keeping them in check, not that she's telling people where they are or need to be stopped.

So I was thinking of that, then I was remembering Hopes. Edelgard ousts TWSITD, saying she's taking the Empire back from Thales indicationing that she knew he was the one pulling her father's strings and was in control of the Empire as regent. She also admits to Hubert about how much she's turned a blind eye towards their influence over the nobility, which would make sense considering they were involved with the Insurrection. But what really got me is that once she kicks them out of the Empire…

She starts planning for her war. She's not going to go after the guys who killed her siblings or possibly are the reason her father was so weak (I mean, look at Rufus as well as Claude's grandfather falling ill. Or Holst's non-existent performance in Houses), she'll acknowlegde their influence over the corrupt nobility but still publically says the corruption came from the Church's teachings. Hopes is a lot more open that the Church is merely a scapegoat for her, and getting rid of them is merely a pretense for Edelgard's attempt to conquer Fodlan. People were pointing that out right from launch, with the Church heading to the Kingdom as part of her machinations to attack them while also attempting to conquer the Alliance at the same time despite it not supporting the Church. If she's considered the implications of her father being a puppet for the Agarthans with what he told her, she's ignoring it because her goal is still the same. Her ideals, ideals informed by what Ionius told her about Fodlan's history, are still the same.

Meanwhile, she'll ignore TWSITD. She knows they were behind the experiments, behind Duscur and possibly knows their involvement with the death of Claude's uncle, yet she'll let them run free where they bring havoc to the war.

Does this really sound like Edelgard cares about her siblings or father? I mean, Hopes bluntly said that her attraction to Byleth wasn't natural, it was simply her Crest of Flames resonating with theirs. We know that she's trying to sway Byleth into joining her after Byleth obtains the SotC, and with this in mind… yeah, it really does look like Edelgard is merely using the death of her siblings to score sympathy points, when in reality she's focused entirely on her own goals. Goals and ideals that lead her to war, all while Verdant Wind says Edelgard was manipulated into going to war in the first place.

Edelgard is doomed by her selfish nature. She's trapped by her desire to shape the world the way she's been made to see it should be, hence her Japanese line about putting the world back to what it once was. Because of that, her connections with others are toxic and self-serving, getting what she wants out of them. Even in Flower, when she learns the power of teamwork and in her S support where she talks about how much she needs Byleth like a drug addict, she's still believes that people need to only rely on themselves and pushes hypocritical reforms with that in mind. She can tell Shez that she trusts them in Scarlet Blaze, but in the Shadow Realm she makes it clear that she trusts no one and she knows better than to trust Edelgard.

Because Edelgard knows just how much of a liar Edelgard is. Wind talked about getting to know people in order to clear up any misconceptions. The more you familiarize yourself with Edelgard, the more she comes across as a psychopath.

[randomnameless]

Tbh, if there is a phrase that describes the toxic side of Fodlan's fandom it's "edgy teenagers with some hangups who can choose to become a better person but think being edgy and confrontational is right with diminishing and tiring returns".

I don't want to presume things about people I don't know -

While some devoted fans really seem to edge on the "2 3dgy 4 U" side, I guess some of the most toxic people just want to start shit up, like trolls from the old days.

Imo you describe what I'd call choices about what you want from a fandom, do you want to be an 3dgy and a brave confrontational warrior stadning behind your keyboard, or do you just want to have fun and good times, laughing with "friends" and/or joking about nonsensical AUs that are completely opaque to anyone standing outside your circle ?

Some people have fun by being asses to other, good for them I guess, but I know I'm way too old (or I have always been way too old?) for petty shit like calling names/harassing/doxing people over png.

[emblemxeno]

I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the Empire as a culture, it's negative traits and how the Black Eagles portray them. It's just, I've seen a lot of focus on how bad Faerghus is, how horrible their training of kids is, how bad their chivalry is. I'm not denying Faerghus has issues, I mean Duscur was destroyed by them, but it creeps me out and makes me think negatively of others motives when they solely focus on this one groups flaws, and not say, the ones who invade everyone in game.

One explanation that I can think of is that the Blue Lions characterization and backstory is very interwoven with the culture of the Kingdom, which of course includes the negative aspects; knighthood and chivalry, climate causing harvest issues, pandemics, poverty issues, the Tragedy of Duscur, the politics of the Kingdom, etc. And since Fire Emblem itself is driven by the characters, you care more about the culture of the place the more characters talk about it/are involved with it.

The Black Eagles on the other hand... most of them are actually pretty removed from the negatives of the Empire.

The primary negatives of Adrestian Empire is the inability to let go of the past. This includes (as Ferdinand says) people in the Empire wanting Fodlan wanting to go back under imperial rule, the Empire implied to hold grudges against the Kingdom because they see Faerghus as just a land of rebels and traitors, and having a contentious/complex relationship with the Church, which has been around as long as the Empire.

Relating to this is how the Empire has more noble houses that are ‘falling from grace’ than any other territory in Fodlan. Nuvelle, Ochs, Bartels, Martritz, and Hrym are all Imperial households that no longer exist or are no longer that relevant, be it through political trouble, warfare, or something else. Not only that, but besides the other houses having their own share of problems, House Hresvelg is also noted to be suffering from many misfortunes and have “dark clouds” hovering over it, signaling that it’s not as great as it once was.

But the thing is, most of the Black Eagles don’t care about any of that. Caspar and Linhardt flat out don’t care about Imperial politics. Bernadetta is too busy dealing with her reclusive lifestyle and trauma to care. Petra is from a different country with its own problems. Dorothea is a commoner who outright says she has little knowledge of the world and no desire to get into it. Ferdinand... he’s informed, I guess? But he’s more focused on securing a great future for the Empire than worrying about the past.

Edelgard and Hubert are the only ones who care. Edelgard talks repeatedly about how the Empire isn’t as great as it once was, including calling the other territories offshoots (and outright saying she wants to “put the world back to what it once was” in the JP version), and Hubert cares a lot about upholding the legacy of House Vestra and kills his father to prove that.

So unlike the Blue Lions, who are all pretty involved with Faerghus’ culture (except maybe Mercedes, but you could still make a case for her if you try enough), only two of the Black Eagles represent or talk about the negatives of the Empire. Not to mention, the story doesn’t really zero in on it either, instead leaving the negatives in subtle lines and ending subtext to signal to the player that “yeah, the Empire isn’t a good place and it’s not gonna get better, it can only get worse”. 

So a lot of players probably missed the subtlety and choose to think that Faerghus is the only toxic/negative nation in Fodlan, when that is really not the case.

[ceaselessblade]

⚔️️ against pelleas pls!

Pelleas-- dark mage. Ike hasn’t actually seen much of him, and dark mages are actually pretty rare in Tellius. However, he does get the general gist. From afar, the man looks scholarly, and has no weapon in his hands. He’s clearly a mage, but doesn’t look as nimble as Morgan or Celica.  Well, considering his profession, he probably doesn’t need to be. From what he’s seen of dark mages, they’re battlefield control. If the earth isn’t a roiling swarm of rapacious locusts and your lungs clogged with virulent acid, then as a dark mage, you’re probably not doing too well.  Which is to say, he’s probably not going into a fight with Pelleas without wrapping up his breathing holes, at the very least.  From what Ike’s seen of dark mages, they ‘charge’ the air around them with their magic, and use wind currents to condense their magic into spheres, which they then send out to explode to scatter taint. In that case, what he has to pay attention to are changes in air pressure for detecting when an attack is incoming. Ragnell and Urvan-- especially the latter, might be somewhat useful for deflection. Alternatively, his cape can work as a quick shield deflection against miasma, and he will wrap his left arm in it just in case. If he truly needs even less of an edge, he’ll rip off an entire wing and use it as a wrap for the sword, so as to not ‘break’ the membrane of condensed miasma. He doesn’t need a sharp edge if he manages to get up close: Pelleas doesn’t look like he has much defense against a crushing impact.  For this reason, actually just charging in a straight line is probably the best path to take against Pelleas, with sidestepping or minor changes in vector to dodge attacks.  Unlike other mages, aerial attacks are probably effective here, or a ‘skipping’ approach. Dark magic carried by the medium of wind means that it likely has issues travelling through currents that are different from the one that’s being used to carry it, and especially so for vertical air layer changes.  From the very start of battle, poison and debilitation is a factor. If he doesn’t go at full power from the very start, then there probably isn’t a chance anytime later than that.  Anything else? Well... He actually doesn’t know enough about dark mages to understand much else. That is a weakness to shore up, for sure. He’s aware that Fodlan dark mages have awfully fast cast times. Strangely enough, the spheres they use also don’t seem to be carried much through wind, too, instead taking on the form of something more like plasma? In that case, he’d probably treat it more like fire, shielding himself with his cape and preferring to deflect, likely into the air. Striking an acid ball into the ground will just get toxic sludge all over you instead as it explodes in your face. ...Oh, Nosferatu? That’s something he hasn’t heard in a while, but he actually does have significantly more experience with it due to light mages. Aether is applied in response if they give him that opening-- they usually don’t expect a drain right back in response, and usually a mage-type would capitalize on the fact of him being weaker to prepare stronger following spells with longer incantation time. Aether breaks their rhythm in that regard, followed by increased pressure on the mage to force them to improvise. Generally, if a mage dares to use Nosferatu in front of him, they’ll have to raise their hands and leave their core open at some point as part of the cast, and that’s just a bad thing to give any swordsman... Maybe an axe-user would find it hard to close ranks in time, but Ike’s seen enough to realize that at that point, you throw your entire weapon at the caster.  Sure, your weapon leaves your hands-- but so does their life immediately leave their mortal shell. Good enough trade, he’d say.

[vonvestra]

He's still so new to all of this: to Fodlan, to their traditions. But he can't help the bubbling sensation of excitement. ( And couldn't help but think that... Seliph and Ares would have a lot of fun with something like this, too. ) He'd snuck around to the Eagles' rear guard, targeting the one who seemed to be ordering most of the troops. With a battlecry, he breaks from the trees, training sword in hand, noonday sun glinting off ivory armor. ( leif hp: 3/3 ) ( roll: 5, hit )

The front line has moved out, Edelgard among them. From his place at the back, Hubert watches her and waits for his chance to clean up the leftovers. Pick off those who manage to escape from their battles by the skin of their teeth. A the crack of underbrush, barely audible over the din of battle, narrows his eyes and his focus shifts. Carefully honed senses pick up the presence of someone with the gall to make a rear attack and energy gathers quickly into his palm.

Leaves rustle, branches snap. A cry rends the area.

Dodge: 15, success | HP: 1/1

The shout gives the other student’s location away. Hubert pivots on his heel and steps to the left, out of the way of the falling sword (not even a real one, he realizes, but one of those made of wood from the training hall).

“Pathetic.”

Darkness grows from Leif’s shadow a split second before he hits the ground, deep purple sludge rising to snag at anything organic and pull it down into toxic mud.

Attack: 8, critical