#five hargreeves | number five

[twistedlily]

Crackpot Theory: Five and Viktor are the Beginning and End to Everything

A friend told me months ago to write an essay after hearing my crackpot theory about this show that is my Joker, so here I am, doing just what I was told. (Yes, I know this won't come true. That's why it's a crackpot theory. I'm only writing this for fun and to get this idea out of my head before S4 drops tomorrow. Anyway!)

Disclaimer: I will be using Vanya and she/her pronouns to refer to the comics character, and to the show character in S1 and S2, and Viktor and he/him pronouns for S3. I am doing this for the sake of more easily understanding which seasons in the show I am referring to when I mention my points.

Anyway, without further ado...

I am putting too much faith in the show's writing here and am convinced that the show is hinting that Five and Vanya/Viktor are the key to everything.

Here is why:

In S1, we see quite clearly that Five meant something to Vanya. She tells Pogo in the first episode that "You know what's stupid? I used to leave the lights on for him. ... Every night I'd leave a little snack and make sure the lights were on." Following that, we also see Five return, looking exactly the way he did when he left, and one of the first things he does is make himself a peanut butter and marshmallow sandwich, which is the very snack that Vanya would continually make for him when he was gone.

Later on in the episode, we see him get attacked by the Temps Commission, and after said attack, the place he goes to for safety is—Vanya’s apartment. There, we get to see her patching him up, get to see them talk and in turn have a better understanding of their particular dynamic. Vanya asks him why he’s at her apartment. He says, “I’ve decided you’re the only one I can trust.” She asks him why he’s opening up to her specifically, and at first, he says, “Because you’re ordinary.” Of course, those words sting with her, and it shows on her face. So he amends his statement shortly thereafter, with a “Because you’ll listen.” The show quickly establishes that Vanya found Five important in her life, and in turn, affirms that he finds her meaningful as well.

Unfortunately, as the first season continues, we don’t get Five and Vanya interacting together as much, if at all. The second episode features Vanya managing to briefly stop Five in his tracks after he declares she’s too young and he made a mistake in trusting her, saying she “hasn’t seen him in a long time” and that she “doesn’t want to lose [him] again.” But then he leaves her apartment, and he makes little to no effort to contact her for the rest of the first season until it becomes apparent that she is far more important to the end of the world than he initially believed.

However, we do see more of their intriguing bond in the moments we’re shown of their shared past and younger years, with how Vanya shaking her head gave him genuine pause before Five’s impulsive decision to leave and perform spatial jumps in defiance of Hargreeves. Additionally, her name was the first Five called after landing in the apocalypse, and as we are made aware in the first episode, he found her book and read it while away. In said book, she writes that he "was [her] sole confidante." He even writes in the book, and continues to do so upon returning to 2019.

(A little note on something I found fascinating that may be something, or may be nothing: when drunk, Five tells Diego that he’s “the Four frickin’ Horsemen.” Traditionally, the Four Horsemen signify the bringing of the Apocalypse to the world, hence the tale of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Now, in the show, if Five is the Four Horsemen, and Vanya is the Apocalypse... does that not mean they’re inextricably connected?

Again, this could mean something, or it could be me seeing things where things were not meant to be seen.)

I will also note that their bond in the show does not, in fact, come from the comics. The comics feature a Vanya who is emotionally linked to Diego, and the Five we see in the comics is far colder than the one in the show. He even tells Vanya outright at the end of the Apocalypse Suite arc that he “never liked [her].” So this shift in relationship dynamics does exist purely in the show, which I personally find works in its favour due to its character-driven nature.

Anyway, let us move onto S2 and how it too shows their bond, and we start off with Five insisting that Elliot search for sound waves as he tries to prevent a second apocalypse via the Cold War, given Vanya’s sound manipulation power. Does that explicitly show their bond at all? Granted, no, but what happens later on when Five manages to find Vanya does—he finds her in a cornfield and gives her a rather soft smile as he introduces himself as her brother. He then proceeds to inform her (over a cup of coffee) of what happened in S1, but notably pauses and swallows when she asks what caused the apocalypse. He then states, “Asteroid impact,” and omits her role entirely, because he cares enough to not want to hurt her, which exists in contrast to how he acts around every other member of their so-called family, i.e. constantly insulting them and threatening to harm them.

This is also seen in how Five firmly insists they "need to stick together," and how he would, most likely, blink into the car when Vanya plans to drive away from him if it were anyone else, but instead takes a breath and knocks on the window to get her attention. It may be because she’s a bomb that he doesn’t want to set off, but given his behaviour around her even in S1 before she’s revealed to have powers, we get to know that he is and always has been patient with her, and impatient with everyone else. He even mumbles to himself later on about how "she'll come around. I know she will."

Also noteworthy is how his old body self learns from Luther that Vanya is the reason for the apocalypse, and in response to this news, all he does is shrug and say, “Fair enough.” It is remarkable how the very thing that he obsessed over for decades upon decades in the apocalypse is set aside with a simple acknowledgement of its cause being his closest adopted sibling.

(Another thing that I find most intriguing is how in the comics, Five’s calculations to return to his timeline and escape the apocalypse are not, in fact, bungled when he finally attempts to jump again. He realises through Dolores that he “forgot to subtract the two from the one” and only fails in his goal when the Temps Aeternalis pulls him out of the time stream against his will. In contrast, the show has Five arguing with his old body self, and the apparent solution to his calculations is a misplaced decimal point—“It’s 0.57, not 5.7!” which may be me reading into it too much, again, but if not, then an argument can be made that Five and Vanya (Number Seven) are meant to work together and stay together, instead of being placed apart due to circumstances beyond their control.)

Moving onto S3, there is the same issue as present in S1 wherein Five and Viktor rarely get to talk to one another. The only instances of their relationship coming into play are when Five runs back to ensure Vanya/Viktor is okay when they’re being attacked by the Sparrows, the easy acceptance of Viktor changing his name and beginning to transition, and of course, the talk they have near the end of the season. The talk in which Five is caring and vulnerable enough in his lecturing about powerful people and ants to tell Viktor, “If you ever need anything, I’m always here for you. But lie to us again... Viktor, I’ll kill you myself.”

There is, too, the fact that they share a long look at the end of the season before walking off in different directions, yet again separated instead of going off together.

The trailer for S4 revealed that this time, Ben is the cause of the end of the world, and it seems the show is gearing up to explore the Jennifer Incident and Ben’s death in detail (which, alongside the Sparrow Academy, the comics have yet to touch upon fully). While I am aware this show emphasizes that this so-called family is stronger together than apart, and I don’t mean to undermine their marketing with this essay, I do find this message does not yet work unless every member of the Academy is willing to work together and stay connected. Obviously, this includes Five and Viktor especially, seeing as Five set out to save the world from the apocalypse at the beginning of the show, and Viktor was the cause then and continues to cause problems for everyone.

In conclusion, I (most likely falsely) believe that the show is pointing at a resolution for its “oh no the world is ending” plot that torments each season via the full reconciliation of Five and Vanya/Viktor’s bond and that ultimately, these two teaming up and properly communicating with each other will be the way to get to a timeline where the world doesn’t end for once and happy lives can be had for all.

If you’ve read all of this, I thank you for sitting through it. If you disagree with it, that's totally fair, and I welcome you to keep scrolling and ignore this post entirely.

[sunsickjune]

“i felt that five had to have a love story” okay steve !! fine. i’ll humour you. picture this : lila and five in the subway. they’re travelling to different timelines, loosing hope, trying to find a way home. then they get to a timeline and five sees dolores. but she’s a human, not a mannequin. he falls for her. loves her. wants to stay with her in her timeline. and that’s why lila has to force him to come home. she has kids, a husband, a life. five wants to stay with dolores more than anything. but he goes home, back to his timeline, because he knows he has to save his family. because he loves them more.

[feralnumberfive]

[motteteto]

who do i gotta kill to get a decent cup of coffee?????

[twobraincells-art]

The 8th of August, 2024

Two mistakes of the universe go for a walk. Despite this, the universe doesn’t chew them up and spit them out. It lets them be. They deserve it, after all.

It’s a lovely day.

[currentlyonstandbi]

all the Deli Fives: *trying to figure out how to fix the timeline and stop the apocalypse*

Brisket Five in the kitchen:

[brionysea]

everyone else: prying information out of five like pulling teeth

five, walking up to viktor and klaus unprompted: hey. the apocalypse is coming. help me out

[velvet4510]

In s1, Five tells Allison he wants to live long enough to meet Claire.

In s4, Five and Claire never interact.

This is the most consistent show of all time, WOW!

[very-straight-blog]

Number Five from seasons 1-3, you'll always be famous.

[dellaray]

One of my earlier TUA screenshots I finally finished 🙏 love these two with my whole being

[stevenrogered]

Season 3 / Season 4 (deleted scene)

[golden-redhead]

You see, the biggest problem with this is that Five HAD a love story all along.

His love for his family has been THE very foundation of the show and what kickstarted the entire chain of events.

He spent 45 years in the apocalyptic wasteland because he loved them too much to give up.

He found them in every possible timeline.

He reversed time for them.

He became an assassin to get a shot, however small, at coming back to them.

He’s been through countless timelines, doing his best to save and protect them in every single one of them.

No matter how dire the situation, he always pushed to find a way to save his family. His devotion was stronger than anything and there was no line he wouldn’t cross for his siblings. No matter how self-destructive the cost, he sacrificed himself again and again just for a chance at reuniting with them and saving the world so they could live.

It was a destructive kind of love, yes, but also inspiring. I think it resonated with many people because love can be intense, we love and want to be loved with this kind of intensity and dedication.

So, to throw it all away for a romantic subplot that no one asked for is not only a huge disservice to Five’s character but also goes against everything he represents. We already knew he’s capable of love and that he loves deeply.

I don’t understand how the showrunner who worked on the series for 5+ years can say that Five had to have an arc like this. It doesn’t make sense. He already had a love story. Arguably, the most beautiful and deepest of them all. He didn’t need more, what he needed was to have it returned and to finally settle down after multiple lifetimes of putting his life on the line to keep his loved ones safe.

To say otherwise means that the writers fundamentally misunderstood what made Five a great character and what fans loved most about the show. It feels like a betrayal, because it is one. It proves that the creators not only misunderstood the core character of the show but also never paid attention to the fandom and its preferences.

There’s a difference between catering to the audience and what they ended up doing, which is a character assassination at its worst. And it’s not just the character who was ruined but also the entire premise of the show, the reason why fans loved it in the first place. There’s no coming back from something like this.

[feralnumberfive]

So let me get this straight: Five hid from Lila that he had found his previous journal that told them how to get home just so that he could deepen his relationship with her and hide from the world? So that he could completely forget about his beloved wife Dolores and go on to steal his brother's wife and the mother of their children? And nonetheless without any of his family members knowing where he and Lila are? Completely abandoning his family? And potentially letting them die in another apocalypse?

Fuck that. To the max

[motteteto]

stage7: homicidal rage

[fiercene0n]

[foolinafable]

your wildest dream, his nightmare

Five Hargreeves x Reader Synopsis: Walking into Max’s diner as a respite after you and Five are seemingly stuck you don’t think you could’ve imagined a better outcome surrounded by various versions of your lover. At the same time, for him it’s nothing more than a bad dream he hopes will end soon. Word count: 760 Tags: Fluff, Jealous Five, Crackfic Note: This small fic because it's funny to imagine jealous Five being jealous of himself

“Come on”

Five grabbed your hand as he led you out of the tube to, probably, another timeline. It must have been a few hours the two of you had been stuck in this place going station to station still with no idea how to get back. 

You turned left but instead of being greeted with the usual blankness for Five to scribble about in his notebook you instead were somewhat blinded by the light of a sign.

‘Max’s delicatessen.’ You made eye contact with Five to the side of you before tilting your head with a nod towards the building. He simply followed your lead before quickly grabbing the door to let you in first. 

You turned back to smile in thanks when you noticed his shocked expression, head quickly turned back towards the diner at a call of your name to see the whole diner was made up of your lover. Looking back to Five, your Five, in bewilderment a shocked smile on your face.

The look on your face seemed to take him out of his stupor clearing his throat before leading you into the diner- trying to find an empty table for you to sit at. He was quickly stopped by another Five, one sat on his own, and gestured for the two of you to sit opposite him. Five begrudgingly agreed as he realised the restaurant was at max capacity. No spare table in sight.

You quickly shuffled onto the brown bench when the other Five spoke 

“It’s rare to see one of you around here” he smiled happy to see you

“Maybe this is not my typical scene” you rebutted a cheeky smile on your face that the Five opposite you seemed to enjoy, dimple now showing from smiling so wide

“Maybe” he breathed out in a laugh 

Before you could continue to speak with this version of Five another one appeared in front of you, this one not wearing a suit or vest. He quickly placed down a peanut butter and marshmallow sandwich in front of your Five. He then turned to you placing a very familiar drink in front of you

“Your favourite” he declared when you looked confused  

“How did you know?” You smiled at him eyebrows furrowing as his cheeks went red

“We all know your favourites” he shrugged as if it was the most normal thing in the world

“Um- Thanks” you nodded your head in gratitude 

“Anything for the missus” he mumbled before leaving to go back to the kitchen 

You took a sip of your drink when your Five spoke irritated “What was that about?” a hand possessively stroking at your thigh 

“A lot of us having seen our version of her in a long time” the other Five spoke wistfully   

“How sad” you stated before turning around in your seat you waved and greeted the Fives around you who all became quite delighted at your attention all greeting you with a similar bravado.

“Okay.” Five declared “I think we are done here” he quickly at up pulling you up with him by grabbing hold of your hand once more 

“But we just got here, can’t we stay a little longer and rest?” you asked not wanting to leave. I mean why would you, surrounded by multiple versions of the man who loved you, say no to having his attention on you?

“No, we need to get back to my family in our timeline, come on. We are wasting time.” he rebutted practically pulling you away from the diner seemingly getting even more annoyed as the other Fives shouted goodbyes towards you.

“I didn’t realise I was so annoying, that was a nightmare” Five claimed as you sat on a train hopefully taking you back home

“Sure you weren’t jealous?” you quipped staring at him mischievously

“No” he grumbled arms crossing against his chest

“Then you won’t mind if I-” you spoke moving towards the doors to go back to the diner, quickly shutting up when Five grabbed your hands pulling you back onto the seat beside him. You simply smiled at his look of false ire towards you as the train started to move. Resting your head on his shoulder as he let a smile grace his features giving a kiss to the top of your head.

You hope that at some point you will get to return to the diner- a place you have just coined akin to heaven on earth.