#first example that came to mind

[ftm-megamind]

my favorite thing to imagine is david jacobs in romantic situations. because he either hits on jack with a) infodumping b) straight up an insult c) a compliment that's so specific that it's perceived as unnerving by a typical person. and somehow jack still falls for him. not that i think jack is good at flirting. have you seen him in 92sies when interacting with sarah. he's so silly shy blushy. so whenever he receives a weird flirtation from david he also gets all silly shy blushy but even more

[aliusfrater]

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I wouldn't really agree that boys are just arm candy in magical girl shows and only there to look cute. Yeah, sure the girls' friendships are the focus, but the boys are usually very much involved in the plot and most shows do explore their feelings about the odd things that happen due to magical shenanigans even if they aren't in the know (It's why ML baffles me even more with how they screwed up Adren's arc when he's the deuteragonist, when all these boys are supporting cast and get well rounded arcs)

I'm not much of a winx fan, but the specialists were very much not arm candy. Did the girls talk about them being cute? Yes, it's what teenage girls do. Did the narrative suggest they were good looking? Yes, but that's standard for most love interests in any genre. But we still got scenes with them talking amongst themselves about how they themselves feel and they got a fair share of badass fight scenes even if they wield no magic. A large amount of episodes actually included the boys and girls working as a team solving a mystery or fighting a villain. The girls might deal the finishing blow but the boys were still integral to the plot.

I hope this doesn't come across as hate, it definitely wasn't my intention. I'm just a bit too passionate about the magical girl genre.

I do think you have a good point with ML having a problem choosing a genre or blending two genres successfully.

For the CCS fans, I will add though that Cardcaptor Sakura had both Tomoyo and Syaoran serve as sources of motivation for Sakura. And both Sakura and Syaoran collecting cards even if Sakura is the only one who could seal them and yet never made you question whether Syaoran was even necessary for the job the way ml does with Chat.

I wasn't trying to say that boys have no part to play in magical girl team shows or that they're always treated as having no lives beyond the girls, that's why I mentioned that the Winx Club boys - aka, the Specialists - have their own (mostly off screen) lives and occasionally show up help the girls:

the boys are usually off doing their own thing and only occasionally show up for a date or to give the girls a ride on their cool bikes or magical spaceship

Even then, this is certainly a simplification of the roles that they play in the story, but I kind of had to simplify their roles down to their base components for the original post's discussion as I was talking in broad strokes of how these stories are written.

In terms of those broad strokes, the Specialists are absolutely only there for shipping fodder. That's why each one is assigned to a girl from the start and why their main role in the narrative is supporting their assigned love interest or causing relationship-based drama for their assigned love interest. If it weren't for shipping, then the Specialists would not exist.

While the Specialists do have fleshed out characters and may even effect the plot, the execution of those elements is designed around the girls. A really obvious example of this is the character Timmy, who has character development as the boy's tech guy. Why is he into technology? Because he's the designated love interest for the fairy of Technology and we have to show why they're a good match. Along similar lines, the boys don't really get plots that are removed from the girls because this is the girl's show. Every episode features one or more of the Winx, but the boys are optional and often don't appear.

This is because, narratively speaking, the boys are just love interests and that brings us back to Miraculous' big problem. You can't have a show where Adrien is written like a Specialist while also being part of the Winx Club and where Alya is written like she's part of the Winx Club while technically being more of a Specialist in terms of power set and actual narrative role.

I'm was thinking back to my memories of various Winx Club plots to find one that really highlighted what I mean here and I remembered that one of the big dramas in season one was the reveal that Bloom's love interest - Sky - was in an arranged marriage and had just never told her. As it turns out, that's a great example of what I'm talking about re Adrien!

Is that plot line technically based around Sky and letting his life effect the plot? Sure, but the fallout of that reveal revolves around Bloom, not Sky. The story doesn't really care how Sky's feeling as the conflict progresses. Instead, it focuses on how it affects Bloom and her friends because of course it does! She's the main character. It would be really weird if that plot suddenly focused on her side character love interest and his friends during one of her darkest hours/biggest moments.

Think of that and then consider how the ending of season five is written. Notice any similarities? Sure, this is Adrien's family drama, but because he's just a Specialist, the focus isn't on him. It's on Winx Club member Marinette and Adrien only shows up at the end for a kiss. That is the problem. That is what I'm talking about when I say that Miraculous will randomly write him as if we're watching a magical girl team show where Adrien is just the love interest.

In fact, let's really dig into this example because it's a good one.

You can have a look at the transcript for the finale episode of Miraculous season five here and see for yourself that Adrien doesn't even show up on screen until the final scenes when the big drama is over. The Winx Club wiki also has episode transcripts, so I took a look to see what happened in Winx land during the arranged marriage reveal plot (I love that this is a thing. It's so useful for fact checking myself!) This is the script for the episode after Bloom learns the truth. Sky does not appear even though his lies and family drama are the fuel for this episode's events, which are a major part of the season's arc. Note how perfectly that matches Adrien's writing?

Similarly, Sky's dialogue in the reveal episode is all about Bloom. He's worried about her learning the truth and thinking less of him. To match that, here's Adrien's only real dialogue in the penultimate episode of season five (full transcript):

Adrien:(Covers his ears.) I cannot transform... (Looks at his ring and tries taking it off.) Plagg: What are you doing?! Adrien: I'm not in my right mind. I'm too angry — at myself for falling short of Marinette's love, at my father for sending me here in London, at this stupid app and these rings that use my image... it makes me sick! This nightmare is giving me the horrible feeling that, if I transform, I'll get akumatized and destroy everything with my Cataclysm — Marinette, Ladybug... (Takes off the ring and hands it to Plagg.)

Switching back to Winx. After Bloom learns the truth about Sky, bad things happen because she's depressed. This results in her and the Winx going off on a journey to learn the truth of who Bloom is. After the girls share this big plot moment and Bloom gets her mojo back, the boys show up to be their ride home and to give Bloom her romance moment where Sky wins her back by declaring that he broke off the arranged married because he loves her.

Sky notably doesn't get an arc about choosing between his arranged marriage and his true love. We don't even know that the marriage is broken off until he tells Bloom because that was never really a conflict as far as the narrative was concerned. Of course he's going to pick Bloom! He's her designated side character love interest! He only exists to be with her. We don't need to treat this as a serious thing for him. The arranged marriage plot was never about him anyway. It was about giving Bloom a reason to have a darkest hour moment that moves the plot forward. Similarly, Sky calling off the marriage is nowhere near as important as him telling Bloom that he's called off the marriage to be with her in a grand romantic gesture.

This perfectly mirrors Miraculous' season five ending where Adrien doesn't appear until after Marinette is done fighting her big girl power fight against his father. As far as the writing is concerned, that fight isn't about him. His connection to the villain only really matters in terms of how it affects Marinette's actions during the final battle. Then, when the battle is over, Adrien shows up to give Marinette her big romance moment because, while the plot may be driven by Adrien's family, he is not a Winx club member. He's just a Specialist. Or, in the words of the head writer:

[image text: She's Barbie, he's Ken. You don't like it. I get it. It won't change. Anything else?] (The full, even more damning context of this tweet can be found here.)

What else can I say other than, "I rest my case."

Oh, and also that I didn't take this as an attack. I just thought it was a good opportunity to really dig into the nuances of this and what I was talking about in that original post as I never know how obvious this stuff is if you don't closely study story telling. As this case study hopefully shows, if a show is about a group of girl friends using the power of friendship, then their love interests may have important roles, but the boys are never going to be more important than the girls and most of the boy's screen time will be focused on romance and how their existence effects the girls because it's ultimately the girls' world. Without them, the show wouldn't exist. Without the boys? Well, then we just wouldn't have a romance plot.

[valtsv]

Am I just hoping I'm not alone in this or do you also, while reading a book, come across something so clever or just familiar and you are so impressed by it It'll stay with you for a few days?

yeah!!! i had that experience a Lot with i am in eskew especially (not a book but it's a very description-heavy podcast, so it's a bit like listening to an audiobook to be honest), it's uncomfortably evocative

[romance-rambles]

do you think...would luke feel weird about emma marrying gilbert? they're supposed to be close in age, while gilbert is probably the closest thing he has to a father figure, despite having maybe a max of a decade between them?

then there's also, uh, the elephant in the room

anyways, i can see some angst about where exactly luke slots into this mess of a family. to their kids, is he uncle luke? big brother luke? but, like, it's emma so he probably has to concede that she's good for him, right? idk i feel like that probably makes him feel worse.

[i haven't read gil's route yet]

[dizzybevvie]

Ik the friendly character being infantilised is very common in fandom spaces but I find the idea that people who are kind are immediately characterised as stupid very worrying actually

[goatsandgangsters]

one of the funniest things in serialized period dramas about upper-class people is how often the a-plot will be something totally ridiculous and without stakes, like the new footman has somehow misplaced ALL of the fish-forks and HOW are we to serve the fish course without the FISH FORKS, we'll be forever SHAMED and our guest, lord abercorn, will think ILL OF US FOREVER until the butler at the last minute recovers the fish forks and passes them out individually to everyone at dinner and they pretend "oh yes that's how they do it in ~france" and all of their guests think it's just some Exciting New Fad that they're not sure quite how to feel about

and then the b-plot will be "secondary character has murdered someone and buried their body out in the woods"

and this will be given drastically less screentime and narrative weight that the drama with the fish-forks

[qsmp-yaoi-island]

Okay in light of the Qsmp 6 month anniversary its very sweet but also very funny to look back on when people first met each other and where they are now. Like when Jaiden first met Foolish he was trying to rob her, but just last week they were stealing drugs together

[vimbry]

it's sad how many reviews and stuff around tmbg seem to centre linnell as the sole dark and creepy writer of the band, never really crediting flansburgh too. do "hide away folk family," "dirt bike," "rabid child," "black ops," "cloisonné" mean nothing to them, smh.

[tangents-within-tangents]

The thing about the "Clone Rebellion" show

I've become a lot more critical of The Bad Batch lately and I think I realized that’s because it’s over. 

That means that 1. I can look back on the whole show retrospectively, and 2. any issues or hopes I had no longer have a chance to be addressed or resolved.

I realized I’ve been very caught up in thinking about the missed potential of the show, and a lot of my disappointment/frustration with the direction TBB took (esp in regards to the "reg" clones) is coming from the fact that a Clone Rebellion show does not exist to make up for it. For now this is all we have, and it’s hard for me to just accept TBB for what it is, because I at least have been operating under the assumption that this is all we're going to get, that this fabled spin-off show is just not going to happen. 

Because here’s the thing: We all kinda talk about it as if it's a given, a not if but when, but as far as I can tell the concept came entirely from the fans. Just speculation and wish-fulfillment. I don’t really keep up with news/interviews/behind the scenes stuff, but I’m pretty sure there have never been any mentions from official sources (y'all freaked out about one animation job listing that could be for literally anything). If there's something I’ve missed let me know, but for now at least there have been no announcements or plans or anything.

The only thing really is that the gaps left in TBB feel like intentional setup (we never got an Echo and Rex solo episode like we did with Crosshair and Cody which feels like they are saving it for something else, Echo’s fate was specifically left open-ended by not mentioning him (for better or for worse) in the epilogue, Emerie joins them at the end setting up for a female character to be in the main cast, etc) but that still doesn’t guarantee that we will ever actually get a show. That feels more like leaving the possibility open, not necessarily making plans. Especially since TBB actually puts any potential Clone Rebellion show in a really weird position:

There's a lot of important clone-relevant stuff going on during TBB (like Order 66, Kamino, the stormtrooper bill, Tantiss) but I doubt they would go back and show that again since it would either be repetitive by rehashing TBB’s timeline, or confusing by relying too much on people having watched another show. Yeah most people probably would have, but that still doesn’t work very well narratively if your important beats are just implied and happening offscreen. Like I would kill to see more of Nemec and Fireball but then they would just disappear after being killed off (for pretty much no reason) in another show! Hemlock and Tantiss base were designed specifically to be clone-centered threats, and the underground network were the ones who actually spent time searching for it, but then they weren’t there for the rescue so there would be no resolution. But if we instead pick up at the end of TBB it seems like most clones have already been phased out of the Empire by then anyway. Yes you could still make things work either way and come up with new plots and stuff but it’s still a tight spot to be in and it doesn’t really feel like the writers took that into account.

Whether we do get another show or not, I think it still had a negative impact on TBB though. Like that show already had a cameo problem, but 'setting up potential future show at the expense of the current one' is such an issue in any media (esp Star Wars and Marvel these days). Since we got pieces of both 'important stuff happening to the clones' and 'fun mercenary adventures with the Batch' rather than just committing to one or the other, or equally to both, it just causes issues for both shows. I’ve been working on a full post about the lost potential, but for now I’ll summarize as:

It hurts TBB bc we get these glimpses of a more meaningful story that our main characters, the ones the show decides to dedicate screen time to, choose not to participate in. It’s like that trope/bad writing thing where the story they mention (Budapest, or like the Cullens' backstories) sounds more interesting than the one they are actually showing us. Like it’s okay that the Batch didn’t take the same route as Echo and Rex, but the route they did take should be of equal or greater importance/intrigue, and it just really wasn’t. It was mostly directionless side quests and that made the characters seem selfish and a lot of the plots feel filler-y because there are so many important things going on elsewhere. 

It's just starting to feel unlikely that we'll get TWO post-RotS "clone-centered" shows, so why waste the one we did get avoiding the more important clone-centered storyline? Why not at the least equally divide the time you did have between the Batch and Echo and Rex? Why make an ensemble show if you're not going to try to actually balance all the characters? Why bring back a fan favorite clone just to push him to the sidelines and ignore all his potential? Why focus on the "clones" who aren't affected by/don't care about clone issues?

Believe me, I still want a show focusing on Rex and Echo's efforts to save the clones (I just wish it was the show we got in the first place)! I genuinely hope that we will get this show someday, not just because I love clones and this concept, but because I really see a need for it, there's a lot of gaps and potential to be filled there (which is also why I'm okay waiting bc frankly I don't trust the current state of Star Wars writers to properly handle that potential). But I’m treating it with a more “not until proven otherwise” approach (because we all know what happens when we get our hopes up lolll). So for now this is what we have, and unless that changes, I think we should treat it as such.

A lot of times when I see people mention the idea of a new show it's as a way to fix any issues within TBB. Like ‘this wasn’t resolved that well, maybe in the clone rebellion show…’ ‘Maybe Tech could still come back in the clone rebellion show’ ‘Maybe Crosshair’s character arc could be more complete…’ etc. But again we don’t know for sure if there ever will be another show, and even if there is, TBB should be able to stand on its own. There are some things I think another show could do (like address the plot hole of why the Empire never came back to Pabu, or actually doing something with the CX troopers) but narratively it does not work for major plot arcs or character development like that to be resolved elsewhere (like how a major Mandalorian plot point happened in the middle of TBOBF???). If we do get a Clone Rebellion show I don't think it would make much sense for the Batch to play much of a role in it. TBB ended with a clear send off for those characters, whether that was fully satisfying to you or not, that was the narrative intention. The Batch could show up as cameos, but this wouldn’t be their story anymore, and we know it couldn’t be because they were very intent on retiring and clearly never cared much about the regs or Empire so why would they suddenly change their minds?

A Tech lives plotline would have to be centered on the Batch, that’s his family, but that would just be really out of place in a separate show, especially post-finale (which confirmed that Tech did not come back in canon (at least until Omega joins the rebellion, if you want to be nitpicky ig)). There always could be ways to make it work anyway if you really wanted to, but we saw what retcon battles did to the Sequel Trilogy, and it still wouldn’t really fix any problems in TBB as a show. I’ve said it before, but if the writers were going to bring Tech back then they simply would/should have (they knew season 3 was the final season and they had plenty of time which they spent fighting space gators and whatnot instead).

I'm not saying this to spoil the fun or like dash anyone's hopes or anything. I don't actually know any more than anyone else, I have no impact on what Disney and Lucasfilm do (and clearly they don't really care about making narratively functional choices anyway, get roasted). For all I know this post could age horribly. I just had some thoughts to get off my chest, because I think it’s unproductive to judge TBB based on the idea of an unconfirmed potential other show--that does not (yet?) exist and wouldn't be about them--instead of looking at it for what it is. 

TBB is over. Canon happened, what we have is what we got. We can love it and hate it and critique it and write our au’s and fix-its, but I really think that it’s done. We have to make space for endings, that's an important part of storytelling (which is also why they need to be well-written but whatever). And we also have to make space for other stories to be told. The Batch had their show, they spent the screen time they had on what they did. Those characters got their time and they got a happy ending wrap up, and now it's (hopefully) time to let some other clones take the spotlight.

[letsboldlygomotherfuckers]

I cannot stress enough my therapist is making me watch supernatural in our sessions as part of my exposure therapy

[pidoop]

Honestly still salty about my 22 y/o sister who last night called asking to kiss someone the first time “weird”, “cringe”, and even “millennial”??? And it’s so wild to me for a young woman to have such an anti-consent standpoint.

Like you’ve said you don’t get accosted at bars, and hooray for that. But as someone who’s been groped in what can barely be considered a crowd once or twice, I’m partial to establishing that someone respects and considers me early on.

And Ik you’ve only dated from your friend group (I do not), so you feel more comfortable reading each other, which once again, great. But that doesn’t guarantee safety or that they’ll magically know what you want in the future when you’ve established that it’s cringe to ask and better to guess.

That’s how people get it wrong and cross your boundaries without knowing. And then you’re hurt but feel like you can’t blame them because you didn’t say anything and how would they know? Misunderstandings that can often be avoided by establishing clear and open communication about consent from day one.

Starting off your very first physical and sexual interactions with clear verbal consent is an easy way to set the precedent of asking for consent. Like cool you’ve been going out with this dude for 8 months and never seen a dick. Regardless of your pace, you should be thinking ahead and establishing how you’d like to be treated in sexual scenarios as soon as humanly possible.

I guess I thought society had moved past “it’s just kinda weird and awkward to ask though”, “you don’t have to say anything to know”, “just feel it out”, etc.

It’s also so clear how this prude, sex-negative culture makes it so that you can be comfortable engaging in an act but still feel icky about asking about / for it.

[mandy4ever69420]

you got any more “controversial” shameless takes?

probably unlimited bc im relentlessly political and most fandom people are like, fandom style people. example: lip telling campus cops that kenyatta tried to sell him crack was way more racist than anything carl did until he became a cop. and even so, all of carl's "cop" plotline was an extended explanation, basically directly to the audience's face, as to why fixing the system "from within" cannot and will not work

[linkspooky]

X-Men Hot Take #15

Jean is a victim of Xavier's grooming too, I wish that got acknowledged more. People tend to overstate Cyclop's victimhood and understate hers. One of the subtextual implications in the Dark Phoenix Arc is that Jean could never learn to use her own powers, because she was victim of like three different outside forces trying to steal her agency away, Sebastian Shaw in the Hellfire Club, The Phoenix itself, and Xavier trying to put a cap on her power.

[realsorcerershit]

Hey, I'm gonna make a bit of a long post here. It's going to be ramble-y, it's going to be kind of a stream of thought deal, and I don't really know where it's going to end up as I'm writing this. It's personal, and it's something I feel strongly about, and it has to do with my last textpost.

So. The topic of today is:

I Don't Like Talking About Myself Anymore.

And no, this isn't going to be some post where I'm just venting, but moreso analyzing why. I need to get my thoughts out there on this, and I need to...talk about it, really. Just throw it off my chest, into a wild where maybe six people will read it. So let's get into it.

Last night, in a small bit of frustration, I made a post talking about people trying to over-analyze media, and give it an objective rating of it being good or bad, and indirectly using that as some high ground, telling people that they shouldn't like something because it's "objectively bad". If you want to read that, I'll put a link to it below.

Link to post: Fair warning, I use a bit of harsh language. I stand by it, though.

And ever since I posted this, I've been in a lot of thoughts about it. What brought this surge of emotion up? Why do I feel so particularly strongly about it? Why is this a belief I hold close to my heart? And - the answer isn't really simple. Like most emotions people go through, it ends up being a complex weave. So let's start with the absolute basics.

First thing's first. Part of the reason I feel so strongly about this is, that, there's a natural element of attachment to the media that people enjoy, and that includes myself. *I* have some form of attachment to the media I enjoy. FPSes, the dnd campaign I play in every week, the small bits of music and other games that I enjoy, the people I like watching on youtube or even the small amount of shows I enjoy watching. All of it takes up at least somewhat of a portion of my life, and as such, it becomes part of...who I am, in a way. Media sticks with people, it can influence them in various ways.

And now, we live in a world where people end up trying to analyze everything to a point where nobody can just admit that they *dislike* something these days. There always has to be some kind of justification for their dislike, there always has to be some logical, realistic reason for it that makes sense in their head. So, they come up with reasons why. And those reasons can range from a wide variety of things. For example, if I told someone I liked the genre of metal in music, I could get a response along the lines of, "Oh, metal (the genre of music) is too formulaic. Everything's the same, so it's bad. And, the lyrics end up sounding like a kid wrote them", instead of that person just saying "you know, I really do respect your tastes in music, however, I am not a fan of metal, because it simply isn't for me." The latter of these two responses would legitimately tell me, the person speaking, that, hey. I can respect that this isn't for them, and that I can disengage the topic on friendly terms. Not everyone's going to mutually like the exact same things, and that's part of being human. However.

The first response is where things get bad. Because now, suddenly, I feel confronted. I now have to sit there and justify my like for something, in a heated debate that I didn't want to have in the first place, because here I was, pouring my heart out about something I love. And now, that love is being attacked by someone who had no real purpose in it. And it doesn't even come out of a place of malice, most of the time. People are nowadays super trained into thinking that they have to fit into these very specific camps or else like...they'll be laughed at, or whatever.

So, this all leads me back to the topic at the top of this post. I don't like talking about myself anymore. I don't like going off about the hobbies I have. The OCs whose stories I think about every day, my favorite video games or movies or songs or...any of it. Because the default response these days seems to be that, if I'm not talking with someone who likes the things I like, that I'm going to be met with some form of backlash on it. And it hurts. It genuinely really hurts. I hold up something I genuinely love, and I want to talk about it with people. (At least, when people want to hear about it. Don't force things on people, that also isn't right. Something I'm working on myself, too.) I want to share it, and now I'm afraid to, because at the end of it all, I think I'm going to be...harassed, or chastised, or ridiculed, or some other thing, because that happens to be the default now. And now I feel backed into a corner, where I've put myself in some kind of shame box that I'm only now after maybe 15 years starting to slowly work my way out of.

Just respect other people's hobbies, as long as they aren't harmful. That's all I ask.

[hackoftheyear]

Men should be allowed on Reddit only for niche hobbies. Great resource for stuff like collecting arrowheads or understanding the art of the industrial level wetvac on home carpeting. But men in analog photography subs are on thin fucking ice